Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning 20240701

president zelenskyy and that country's desperate need for more weapons, while talking tough about another leader, israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu who's losing support globally over the mounting civilian casualties in gaza. among other things. meanwhile on capitol hill, house republicans are doubling down on partisan politics, with a vote today on an impeachment inquiry into president biden, it comes as the president's son in standoff with house republicans over a public versus a private hearing and we're keeping an eye on wall street ahead of fed's expected decision this afternoon on the future of interest rates. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, december 13th. with us we have the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire. james stavridis. president emeritus on the council of foreign relations, richard haass. >> we have so much to talk about today. i mean, willie, i xwot the say, we also have a poll by the way, these polls go back and forth. we have a poll showing that joe biden leading in the swing states that he won last time. we'll get to that poll in just a minute. i wonder if people are going to obsess with this for all the polls that are bad news for joe biden. in the times report yesterday, republicans standing back, j.d. vance, why do we support -- russia, here are the numbers, russia started the war and you know these numbers 360,000 troops. they have lost 315,000. of those 360,000 troops. that means they'reavg to go into prisons. they're having to scrape people off the streets, they're having to fight with peoplet have never fought in war before and you even look at whatre fighting with, their tanks, 3500 tanks, they'vet two-thirds of them,y lost about tanks, they're going to have to go back the surplus and salvage tanks that are 50 years old to throw out there. here you have a country that considers itself america's enemy, vladimir putin considers america its enemy and ukraine is completely decimated any, any belief that russia is a major military power. and it's gutted their military. it will take them decades to recovernd yet, republicans, the party of ronald reagan, doesn't see the value of continuing to support freedom fighters. and letting them fight this war against russia instead of us. not one american has died in this war. the toll in russia has been overwhelming. >> yeah, we knew the war was going badly for vladimir putin. this is an american intelligence report that was made public perhaps not by accident as the biden administration's trying to rally congress to support billions and billions of dollars more support here. and admiral the numbers are just staggering, as joe said, putin is having to empty the prisons to send people out to the front lines and to die here and i think the case that the pentagon, the case of the biden administration's making to congress you have the ability to help ukraine win this war, they have putin on the ropes. he needs us now. he left probably a little bit disappointed but what he heard in caucus meeting from republicans zelenskyy did, the case is clear without the united states russia could make progress in a way it hasn't in over the last two years. >> let's start with those numbers, if i started the war as a supreme russian commander right about now i'd be a corporal in the russian army, it's been a disaster of leadership, military operations, lgistics and to what joe laid out a moment ago, probably 500,000 young russian males of draft age have now left russia, so you can add that to your casualty list and i bet most of those aren't coming back and news flash, those are the internet savvy ones, the smart ones, the ones who had some resources to get away from vladimir putin is creating. now, in the midst of this, good news for zelenskyy, i just strike one cautionary note, russia is reaching out to north korea, they're reaching out to iran to replenish these military stocks, they have a population that's tripled that of ukraine, they're still manpower albeit as you point out, increasingly depressed capabilities coming out of prisons. i'd tell you what, i don't like the russian hand of cards militarily, i think where this leads is a probability static set of military lines between these two sides, i think it's rising at this point rather than falling. >> yeah, agreed. agreed. which again suggests at some point there needs to be negotiations to bring this war to an end. i think it would help zelenskyy and it would help the ukrainians to send that message to lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. we're not going to keep fighting this war for three, four years. we'll have to go to the negotiating table, because this is not a forever war, so as we're finding. but, you know, richard, we should look at the republicans, the republicans holding support for israel hostage, holding support for the ukrainian soldiers hostage, we should look at through the lens of what donald trump told zelenskyy, he said i'm not going to send you any defensive weapons until you get dirt on my political rivals. so they're impacting -- donald trump is impacting u.s. foreign policies for his own personal purposes. you have republicans who claim they want to support israel and ukraine but they're holding it hostage for border security. here's the rub, biden has let them know he wants the deal. he's gng to get tougher on border security. he will meet them more than halfway and the republican response, we're not going to do a deal. we're going to make it impossible for joe biden to get a deal done by the end of the year, all for just naked political reasons and they're willing to leave israel and ukraine hanging out there. >> look, if that's the case, joe, i's bad for border security and america's reputation in the world, bad for america's security. i was with j.d. vance yesterday, when he spoke about ukraine, his whole emphasis was really on isolationist, we got to do do more at home. and the familiar stuff of bashing the allies. what ukraine needs to think about, there was a big story yesterday in "the new york times" about it, i think they've got a much-compelling story if they focus on survival and maintaining what they've got. i think the idea even if they got the idea they can roll back the russians and regain the other 20% of the country i think is a real long shot. russia's putting out a lot of orders. they can produce more stuff militarily than we can which is another conversation about what happened to our manufacturing base. let's put that aside. i think ukraine has a much stronger story, we need this help to keep what we've got. new relations with nato and the european union. harder and harder to make the argument if you give aid to ukraine they'll be successful in liberating the rest of their territory, i don't think that's a credible argument a. at some point president zelenskyy will have to pivot for the near term we won't be able to accomplish through military means. >> let's talk about that aid supplement a before chrimas seems unlikely. with senator mitch mcconnell said yesterday practically impossible to get a deal done. jackie, let's talk about this proposal from republicans, zelenskyy was making the case to congress yesterday that he needs the aid. it sounds like the white house may now be open to something on the border to talking to senate republicans about a deal that would get this aid to ukraine. where does that stand this morning? >> i will say that conversations were more productive yesterday than they were last week, after we saw republicans storm out of a meeting on border security, and having president zelenskyy ultimately cancel his scheduled zoom with lawmakers to try to convince them to continue to aid ukraine and send $61 billion to kyiv as part of this bigger, $100 billion foreign aid package, but that is not to say that there's optimism that a deal will get done prior to the christmas holiday and as we have been saying for weeks now and our sources have been worried about, but zelenskyy did visit capitol hill yesterday, his pomp and circumstance around his visit was congruent that he received from gop lawmakers, is that they still did not see his argument as richard was noting sufficient for why the united states should still continue fund them militarily. zelenskyy tried to make the case that warfare is going to turn increasingly brutal and bloody if the u.s. doesn't continue to aid them. but, the remainder of those details of a game plan going forward were, again, no particular time clear enough for leaders to decide, at least republican leaders they were going to continue this. however, the biden administration has privately have been trying to encourage democrats to engage in these border conversations and secretary mayorkas went to the hill for a meeting to hash out more details about a package that the senate and certainly house republicans are not going to support ukraine aid unless they get more assistance when it comes to the border, but these tenants and some of the things that lawmakers are discussing bringing back these title 42 policies aren't going to be popular with progressive democrats. >> jonathan, the white house has calculated that in, they want a deal, they want a deal because they actually care whether vladimir putin gets to kyiv, they want a deal because they actually want israelis to be able to defend themselves and what the u.s. to get involved and they want a deal on the border because it's in their best political interest to get a deal on the border. this negotiating and everyone circling around each other, but this is sort of remind me of debt extension talks. here, we have a lot of people squawking we don't want to help the ukrainians, we don't want to help the israelis, it's all about border security -- >> do they have a border security plan? >> yeah, they do. >> my point is, they're going to get to a deal, the republicans can play tough all they want, are they going to be the ones that putin is going to be thank ing when tanks roll into kyiv. are they going to thanking mike johnson and house for gutting support? no. talk to what you've heard in the white house they want a deal. they want a deal not only for israel and ukraine but they want a deal on the border where they can be tougher than their progressive base want them to be and we could about do anything about it, because this funding fight. >> yeah, there are a few things at play here, joe, first the border, we heard president biden directly that he's open to a deal putting significant measures and changes at the border. the white house knows this is political vulnerability. they it's a far greater risk to not doing anything at the border, a weak spot since the president's first day in office, they haven't had a good plan there and their efforts to this point haven't worked. i talked to senior officials yesterday, there's a little bit more optimism that deals can come, timing is important here, there does seem unlikely to happen now or before the winter holiday, therefore, this will spill into january, fights looming ahead about government funding, a possible shutdown, and there will -- the lack of aid will be starting to feel. the number of russian losses, a sense right now that putin has a little bit of momentum, despite all that, because the ukrainian counteroffensive failed and russia has been able to resupply and there's a sense among international security officials that russia is going to launch ans onnive if ukraine runs out of supplies and ammo. >> every day this goes by, admiral, what kind of message does it send to our nato allies, to our european allies? katty kay said yesterday that the word in europe is that putin is winning. chairman mccaul said, all you're doing is helping president xi here. >> yeah, in a phrase the world is watching. and what's going to occur in ukraine will have effects in decisions in beijing by president xi about taiwan, effects in venezuela about whether they decide to roll tanks into neighboring guyana and certainly appropriate 11 billion. congress needs to realize that and point to back to the conversation richard was having with j.d. vance, hey, i would say, senator vance, you're a veteran, you understand what supply and lgistic change mean to force in the fight. you can't choke it off and think, it's okay, in 60 days we'll turn the spigot back on, that gap plays its way through in real combat. third and finally, let's do the numbers for a minute here, the total package we're talking about and i support all four of those initiatives, they're all four legitimate security concerns, $110 billion, i mean, it's a lot of money, our defense budget guarantees our national security is $900 billion, the portion of that's dedicated to ukraine is well under 5% of that defense budget. what are we getting for that money, we're breaking the -- of the russian military. pretty good trade-off at the end of the day. last point, the europeans are in the game. europe has spent more on ukraine than the united states of america. 20 european countries are spending more on per capita basis on ukraine and total european contributions all-into ukraine, exceeds those of the united states. our allies are with us on this. >> add to that, nobody said this was going to be a few weeks and it would be over. from the get-go, it was going to be a long haul and here we are. in one minute, we'll move from ukraine to israel, where some say president biden's biggest problem is benjamin netanyahu. >> netanyahu appears to be biden's biggest problem in the eyes of biden right now. >> we're back in one minute. on. hey, you should try new robitussin honey medi-soothers for long-lasting cough and sore throat relief. try new robitussin lozenges with real medicine and find your voice. you know? we really need to work on your people skills. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com still in power after the most greatest intelligence failure since -- >> since 9/11. >> he was trying to take the judiciary with all of your right-wing -- >> you did see the paper today. >> i worked in israel, i've been there, 60 people in knesset can do whatever they want, why is he still there? >> they're in the middle of a war. >> you know what they do to an incompetent general in world war ii? fire them. >> president biden offered his harshest criticism yesterday of prime minister netanyahu warning that israel is starting to lose international support because of its military campaign in gaza. he made those comments during a fund-raiser in washington yey. suggested support from europe and the united states is waning indiscriminant bombing.te he described netanyahu's government as the most conservative in israel's history, saying the prime minister, quote, doesn't want anything remotely approaching a two-state solution, adding that netanyahu needs to change. meanwhile in israel, shortly before the president'sremarks, netanyahu sai he would block biden's post-war plan to have the palestinian authority take over gaza, in a statement netanyahu id, quote, after the great sacrifice of our civilians and our soldiers i will not allow the entry into gaza of those who educate for terrorism, support -- if you're so sure of that, mr. prime minister, why were the gates left open for these terrorists to run in and wreak havoc all over israel and it took eight hours for you to respond if you were so clear on hamas wanting to kill jews, 365 days a year every minute of every day, why in the world weren't you ready? it makes on no sense. to carville's point, i just question at this point, what would he do to stay in power because he's done a number of things in his government leading up to the war to stay in power that are naked moves that are just completely corrupt to stay in power. now he's in power, you can't move him now because we're in the middle of a war. >> exactly when they need new leadership. they need new leadership and the white house knows this. because you have a guy whose politically existence has been centered around security. a guy who oversaw the greatest failure of intelligence in israeli history, led to more deaths because of his intel failure of jews at any time since the holocaust. he knew that this attack was coming. for a year. they had the plans. in his government. for the year. written down. how hamas was going to do it. they knew this was coming for a year. not only did they do nothing, they had a meeting in doha, netanyahu's people in doha in september, less than a month before these attacks took place, and the qataris asked netanyahu's government, does netanyahu still want us to send money to hamas? and netanyahu's government said yes. >> come on. >> yes, please keep sending money to hamas. keep funding hamas. israelis, the netanyahu government had been on doha funding hamas. we sit back and we're like, oh, my god, what in the world is qatar doing? they're supposed to be our ally and then we find out in "the new york times" two days ago that actually it's netanyahu who's telling hamas to keep funding -- israel to keep funding hamas. by the way, we still haven't gotten answer from anybody in the government on why after 9/11 it took three minutes for our first responders to get there after a school shooting in nebraska it took three minutes to lock down the school. ten minutes to shut down the entire town. that's the story across america. they have no answer. this whole thing, is this what we keep getting told, a guy that was so incompetent that he allowed the worst killing of jews since the holocaust. he knew the attack was coming for a year and did nothing about it. he told qatar to send hundreds of millions of dollars to hamas weeks before the attack. and then when the attack came he didn't do a damn thing for eight hours while women were getting raped. while concert-goers were getting butchered. old women were getting taken hostage. >> live on facebook. >> young boys were seeing their parents shot dead. and this is netanyahu's government. richard, this whole security argument doesn't work. and james carville is exactly right, it's something that i keep asking myself. we can't do anything until after the war. you have a guy that allowed this to happen, it was on his watch, he asked doha to fund hamas, his government waited eight hours to go down and answer the calls of women being raped and children being gunned down. and he's saying, we got to get true through the war, no. he's incompetent. the israelis want him out. when are they going to get him out and bring in responsible leadership that the united states can work with? >> the sooner the better, not necessarily soon, it's one of the incentives that netanyahu has to continue the war, he continue to make the argument we can't change forces in the middle of it -- >> but, we're here. >> he's trying to stay out of jail. >> i understand, joe. if i said i burned down my house and then i go -- i burn down your house and as it's burning down, i'm throwing buckets, let's get the fire department. richard, richard, let's take care of your burning house first before we call in the fire department. >> but joe, right now he's got a majority in the israeli knesset, and these people agree with him on one big thing they don't want a palestinian state, they want the settler movement to continue. they like the status quo. what they want to do is avoid a two-state solution, they want to continue to populate the west bank, they don't want in any way to meet the palestinians halfway, so what was interesting about yesterday, is we ripped the band-aid off a little bit the biden administration and netanyahu essentially it's clear. we see things fundamentally different as to where this goes. israel has no . bitically tell israelis this is warning shot that having a vacuum of diplomacy. if need bewe'll launch this as required. >> john, as you know, covering the white house what we saw in the public a bit yesterday, what he has been saying privately. we're with you benjamin netanyahu, shoulder, shoulder, we're going to be side in tel aviv, be careful to prosecute this war by provoking you. including many children in gaza. what does it mean for the future. >> i talked to officials yesterday. now they spilled out in the open. no one in the bidened a min vacation who's -- they've been saying this for a while. yes n the early days of the war, israel took u.s. advice on some military strategy, to keep their targets more selectively. to keep their targets more selective. israel is ignore wag the u.s. has had to say. and the onslaught in gaza, these images coming out aren't just hurting israel standing in the world which is what the president said yesterday, it's fueling a true humanitarian crisis. what's clear, everyone agrees, it's a lot of people have died, innocent civilians have died, many of them children. this seems untenable. netanyahu won't entertain the future of gaza. there are going to further clashes. in the early days of the war, this white house believes netanyahu political viability is untenable at some point he'll go, the question is, when, joe. real concern that netanyahu will continue to escalate the fighting in order to stay in power. they're growing less convinced that he can be a true partner in this effort. >> for people going to united states shouldn't tell the israelis, we can have a debate over that, if the united states continues to be the guarantor of israel's safety and security which we do and somebody like netanyahu mishandles it that he allows more jews to slaughtered on october 7th more than any day since the holocaust. willie, it's not just people in the united states, europe, across the world who don't stress netanyahu the israelis don't trust him, 49% of israelis want him to run the government, only 27% wanted benjamin netanyahu, his approval -- you know, there was a poll out on how many people trusted what he said, he's in single digits. people don't trust him in israel, oh, let me run this war the way i want to run this war and look as tough as i can look so i can stay in power and not be arrested. those are the things that the world's thinking right now. those are the things that i'm sure the biden administration, israelis are thinking right now. absolutely ridiculous. why do you let a guy who allowed the worst slaughter since the holocaust, just sit back and be patient, i'd burn the house down and i'm going to stay here until it burns completely to the ground. >> there's no answer. we'll talk about this later. he can't have that conversation given the intelligence failure and what happened on october 7th. let's be clear, admiral, hamas did this, came in slaughtered, tortured and raped israelis. the reaction they were hoping for is the one they're getting is the death of civilians, civilians that hamas places in the paths of those bombs. secretary of state blinken two days ago said of israel there's a gap between the intent and the results. the intent is not to kill civilians but civilians are being killed, what do you do with that tactically? >> personally i've been in this situation a fair amount, as you look targets and targeteering in the world of defense you just have to be critically careful with every bomb you drop, every time you send a missail, drop a bomb, you're creating the conditions that hamas desires. and there are technical military and tactical ways to deal with that. for example, during the war in libya, we dropped 25,000 precision-guided weapons w virtually zero collateral damage. it's very difficult in a place like gaza, obviously, but there are ticket call technical means here, i'd point to the relationship between the israeli defense forces and u.s. central command, the four-star general who runs that highly competent. these connections are very strong. that military to military piece to this can be quite useful. i know benny ganns quite well, he's steady, calm and the kind of leader you want to look to. >> you know, richard, this "the new york times" story from a couple of days ago shows that yes, hamas did the killings, unspeakable killings, hamas must go, they must be destroyed, for what they did, they cannot -- they cannot co-exist next to israel that said, again, we're not talking supporting israel, we're talking about netanyahu here, the qataris asked netanyahu's government in september, do you want us continue giving hamas money? and netanyahu's government said yes, yes, they did. so they're the ones who have been funding hamas. the qataris with netanyahu's approval. >> absolutely, look, this is all about two things the israelis had an incorrect assessment of hamas. secondly, they loved the idea of bolstering hamasing the way to put the palestinian authority on its heels and that way you wouldn't have the emergence of a partner that could move you down the path of a palestinian state. netanyahu's government coalition, they want to have a version of the status quo, this is not a problem for them this is their goal. to the extent he's under pressure it's from the right, to get rid of the palestinians living in occupied territories but joe biden has one big piece of leverage, any israeli prime minister is judged, how does he manage israel's most important bilateral relationship? the relationship with the united states. what joe biden needs to make clear, escalate i would argue that netanyahu is mishandling israel's most important relationship as we say it and if he's not going to need a partner we're going to give proceed without him. it will give joe biden leverage. what's happened here is clear. that netanyahu has a agenda that's bad for israel, clearly not good for the united states, i think the moment has come to stop being the friendly uncle and bring netanyahu along. we've got to chart our own path here. >> that time has passed the united states has a right in protecting israel even from benjamin netanyahu. attaching any funding to israel to get answers. why did benjamin netanyahu continue to allow doha to give billions of dollars to hamas? why did they encourage the qataris? why did netanyahu's government even weeks before the attacks? why did they encourage the qataris to give hamas money? number two, why did they sit on a plan for a year that showed what hamas was going to do, the killing and the raping of israelis? why did they do nothing about that? even though he had that information for a year and third, why did he allow israelis to be slaughtered for eight, nine, ten, 11, 12 hours and why did they do nothing? saying you'll answer that question afterward. that's not good enough. that's not good enough. we need the answers to all of those questions, especially that last one, because there's no good one. james stavridis, thank you so much. >> jackie, lot going on capitol hill today, vote on possible impeachment inquiry into president biden and also will hunter biden testify or not? >> to put a cap quickly on the israel, one upside in delay getting through any sort of funding is that drms delaying the inevitable wave of backlash that's going to come when they do provide aid to israel without the ashurpss and conditions that joe just suggested. but pivoting to what's happening today, the vote, the house floor vote to finally formally authorize the impeachment inquiry that speaker johnson's predecessor kevin mccarthy unilaterally directed to occur is now going to hit the house floor, we're expecting near-unanimous support from house republicans. but speaker johnson has rather strategically in comparison to his predecessor, actually positioned this more as a way to bolster the house's legal hand when it comes to enforcing subpoenas and fighting certain legal battles. but at the end of the day we need to be very clear, house investigative committees, republicans working on this investigation into this biden family finances haven't found any direct link from any of the evidence that links back to president biden. so as house members are going to authorize this inquiriy, again, some see they don't see any evidence to go ahead with formal impeachment proceedings. hunter biden is scheduled to appear on the hill today as well for his closed door deposition, he's not expected to participate in that since he had put forward this counteroffer after a subpoena was issued, he said he would only testify publicly. james comer rebuffed that offer and they needed to go ahead with the closed door offer. while this impeachment authorization is happening, it's definitely strengthening house republicans' legal hand to maybe go forward and hold hunter biden in contempt of congress. >> you know, i mean, of course they don't want it to be public. >> they'll look like idiots. >> they don't want this to be public because every time they do they completely make fools of themselves. also, impeachment. it's never helped anybody. it's only helped the presidents that are being impeached. it's at what point where they figure that out. we figured it out. we impeached bill clinton back in the '90s and he left with 70% approval rating. i guess we should thank the republicans for helping joe biden. >> jackie, thank you very much for being on this morning. coming up, a conversation on the economy and the future of the interest rates. the latest data shows that inflation has cooled substantially in the past year. steve is here to explain what we can expect from fed chairman jerome powell later today. we'll be right back. be right ba. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you 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oh, run payroll. paying my team with gusto takes just a few clicks. they automatically file my taxes for me too. can i run payroll too? choose payroll without the pain. ♪♪ beautiful sunrise over lower manhattan. 6:49 in the morning. new inflation data released yesterday shows consumer price increases remain moderate in november ahead of a key decision by federal reserve officials later today on whether to raise interests. with the new data economists expect the federal reserve to keep the rates unchanged. steve rattner, does that sound right to you? what we've heard from the fed for the last couple weeks they may be done with the rate hikes for now. >> it's going to be an unusual meeting, because -- an unusual thing they're going to be focused not so much on the rate increases but the future of the economy looks like and they will do what ty do every three months, are release what's called a summary of economic projections, and what people are going to be watching for is the fed ready to declare a soft landing? we were hoping we would be able to get inflation down without a recession. a lot of private economists are saying we think that's going to happen, in part, because of that price report you just referenced, prices only up 3.1% over the last year, and it will be interesting to see if the fed gets on board. the market is expecting significant interest rate cuts next year. the fed has been reticent about that in their last economic report and we'll see what they have to say today. >> about the crumbling from the rate hikes from the fed, does it look like given the data we have and this data yesterday, it got the outcome it wanted taming inflation with the rate hikes? >> yeah. i would say inflation has come down faster and further than probably any of us would have guessed. i don't think many economists -- almost no history of taming inflation of this magnitude without some kind of recession, and i don't want to declare a victory completely but that's the trajectory we're on at the moment. things are looking pretty good. we had a good jobs report since we last talked about this, we had good economic growth reports. it's really an exceptional economy on many levels that the president gets no credit foreign. if you looked at the recent poll and the handling of the economy, the biden economics, under 30% approval rate, it's a disconnect i can't remember seeing in many years of watching all this stuff. >> well, i think it's -- there are a lot of these numbers leading indicators at some point will start. if we continue going in this direction, i think we will start to see more of an impact. so much of it, steve, goes on, you know, how much are people paying when they go to the pump. it's less now. obviously, gas prices continue to go down. where prices don't continue to go down are at the supermarket. people feel that in a real way. i'm curious, what's still driving -- this is one sector that continues to like hammer americans in their pocketbook. what drives the inflation at the grocery store? what's driving inflation for food? >> well, actually, joe, inflation for food has also come down a lot. i think it was also up something in the 3 or 4% range year over year. we did have -- food is a very idiosyncratic category because it depends a lot on weather. we had the problem of indian flu where chicken prices went up. we had a problem with eggs. you have a lot of factors driving it. here's a factor probably most people don't know, two facts that most don't know, inflation on goods, everything from used cars to computers and television, has turned into deflation. prices on those items are lower than we're year ago. you're going to pay less this christmas for a lot of things, toys, things like that, that you're going to buy for your kids than you did a year ago. the second things most americans may not realize in the past year, their incomes have gone up about 4%. prices have gone up 3%. in fact, you have real after tax income. the amount of purchasing power americans have is going up at the moment mostly because inflation has come down so much, and yet none of this has permeated the polls, people's appreciation of what's going on, people's sense of positive versus pessimism kind of attitude. it's -- i've never seen quite this much disconnect between the state of an economy and the state of how people feel about the economy. >> well, you can thank certain news networks for that. >> housing market is tough. "the wall street journal" had a great piece a couple days ago about how this is not the time to buy a house. >> you can't rent either. >> but it costs less. but i want to go back again, you're right, electronics and other goods, going to be having deflation on those items. again, groceries, what drives prices up in grocery stores? >> well, again, joe, first of all, i would just emphasize that food place inflation has moderated a lot. it's only -- >> yeah. well, i haven't seen it. i mean -- i still hear people complaining about it. >> i -- >> you're laughing and i see charts that show -- >> no. i'm actually -- i'm actually -- i was actually laughing at thinking about you in the grocery store, but that's a different -- >> it's me. >> that's a different day. >> actually, he comes with me. >> but if you compare, though, the problem is as we said before, if you compare what people were paying in grocery store for bread and milk in 2019 with what they're paying today, yeah, maybe it's only 3% higher than it was last year, but it's 19, 20% higher than in 2019. people are still feeling that? >> no question, joe. we did have a lot of inflation to go throughout system, and for a while we did have very high energy costs. that affects farmers. we did have the supply chain problems, so when a farmer needed a piece of equipment or something like that it cost more. we did have a lot of the lower wage workers get substantial pay increases, great for them, the grocery store workers, people like that, but that increases costs at the grocery store and drives up prices. so we definitely did have a lot of inflation moving through the system, which did raise food prices to a permanent level. i think you may be referring to a point i would like to mention, which is that something like two-thirds of the people who are going to vote next year were not voting 30 years ago the last time we had inflation over 4%. they've never seen inflation like this. this comes as a shock to them, and they -- some of them at least kind of expect prices to go back down again to where they were before. that doesn't happen. in fact, deflation is actually kind of a bad thing. so people just have no experience with this, and they're trying to wrap their minds around it and they're taking it out on president biden, which is not entirely fair at all. >> it's worth pointing out not only the economy is the data, the economy doing well here in the united states or better here in the united states is doing much better than competitive economies around the world in terms of growth and unemployment and other factors you look at. >> you're the envy of the world right now. i was out in asia, the chinese going through all their difficulties, willie, europe is doing okay, but again, they look at us and they think we've got it really good. again, you know, steve just alluded to the political issues. the fed came under criticism here for allowing inflation to ramp up. this doesn't undo that. they seem to have gotten this side of the cycle much better. jay powell's historical legacy is looking better today than a couple years ago. >> all right. richard haass, thank you. steve rattner, if we could get you to return tomorrow with the charts from the southwest wall, we would appreciate that. thank you very much. >> that would be very exciting. >> yes. >> steve, are you -- are you reading -- have you read "the times" yes the great book on the "new york times"? >> sure. cover to cover. i lived through a little of it and a lot of people i work with are in it, so yeah. >> i keep, you know -- your name keeping popping up, chapter after chapter. like you said, you lived through a large part of it. i thought it was really -- i thought it was an extraordinary story, a history of "the times." >> he was up against the gold standard. the book "the kingdom and the power" which came out just when i was -- just before i went to college, is the gold standard, not just of journalism books probably but any kind of narrative nonfiction. it's an extraordinary book. many people have tried since then to duplicate it. none have succeeded. i think adam got pretty close. i think it is a well-reported, well-written history of the "times" over a period. the "times" has come through this and has been a paper of record, unlike some other newspaper of records we talk about, it is the newspaper of record and they're doing a fantastic job. why are we all laughing? >> top this, steve rattner. joe, touchdown tommy on the front and the back. it is tommy devito's town. >> you know where this is going. >> the paper of record, of course, for "morning joe" and that's willie, front and back, that's sort of the springsteen on the cover of "time" and "newsweek" in the same week. >> this was going so well. >> still in a row -- thank you, steve. bye. still ahead on "morning joe," ukrainian president zelenskyy faced an uphill bat until washington after urging congress to send more aid to ukraine, as president biden says russia is celebrating the divisions on capitol hill. national security council official john kirby will join us from the white house on that and so much more. we're back in one minute. you're probably not easily persuaded to switch mobile providers for your business. but what if we told you it's possible that comcast business mobile can save you up to 75% a year on your wireless bill versus the big three carriers? did we peak your interest? you can get two unlimited lines for just $30 each a month. there are no term contracts or line activation fees. and you can bring your own device. oh, and all on the most reliable 5g mobile network nationwide. wireless that works for you. it's not just possible, it's happening. trump has been trying to delay the trial claiming he has presidential immunity so the special counsel is taking the unusual action of going straight to the supreme court for a decision, and we also learned that the trial will include data taken from trump's phone. you think it's bad when your girlfriend goes through your phone? imagine how much worse it is when this guy does it. i mean -- like an assistant principal in the year 3,000. >> whoa. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, december 13th. jonathan lemire with us and joining the conversation we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, former u.s. senator, now an nbc news and msnbc political analyst claire plk mccaskill is with us and host of msnbc's "politics nation" reverend al sharpton is with us this morning. great to is you all. >> before we start with the news we have to go to claire mccaskill. claire, the memes on patrick mahomes crying about the call a couple nights ago, just lit up, lit up social media yesterday. what's your take, first of all, on the call, on the game, on the chiefs struggling, which i really don't understand the problem there, and also mahomes as a leader? >> well, it wasn't a great night, you know, but when you fly high, then everyone takes shots at you when you have a stumble, and i think everybody is making a lot more of this than they should. we have a problem, we have wide receiverers that can't hold on to the ball. i think all of us thought once we survived not having tyreek hill and won the super bowl we were beyond the problem of having wide receivers hold on to the ball, but we're making stupid mistakes and have people who don't have stickiy fingers. he does his best work when he's behind, and now the chiefs have been taken down a notch, and i feel pretty good about what's going to happen the rest of the season, honestly. >> it does really come down to the fact that he only has kelce to throw to reliably, right? if he had a wide receiver that was reliable along with kelce, that would open things up so much? >> yeah. and by the way, you have to understand, if they would highlight kelce on every play he's getting double and triple teamed every time he's coming off the line of scrimmage. it should open up the other receivers. unfortunately, they can't hold on to the ball. that was a play for the ages. that was a classic chiefs way to win, and the fact that he had a foot over the line is heartbreaking. he did have a foot over the line. >> he had a foot over the line, which made it worse. i am good with quarterbacks being intent. i'm good with people playing football and being intent. they don't want to see them lose a game and be happy about it. mahomes just had a complete meltdown. >> yeah. >> over a call that was right. >> i love mahomes. he plays with joy, like seth curry, plays basketball, creative, unlike anything we've ever seen. he's usually poised. that seemed out of character, that outburst, and as claire says, that was about a lot more than that game this week. i think it was about the way this season has gone for them. they have such high expectations now in kansas city. i think as you say, he doesn't have the sooefrs receivers to throw to. i played wide receiver and tight end, you check where you're at, am i good? the ref might say come back a little bit. he was offsides, and i think mahomes is frustrated that that brilliant play was wiped off the board. the helmet throw right there is about the season more than anything else. with all that said, never count out the kansas city chiefs and patrick mahomes. they'll be in the playoffs and once they're in watch out. >> it's not over. they can get in the playoffs. jonathan lemire, though, the career of one of the most successful nfl coaches in history may be over, bill belichick may be hanging up his poncho, his patriots poncho for good. >> his hoodie with the cutoff sleeves. >> that's it. >> we will see. at the beginning of the season, i first guessed on air if this was a bad year for the patriots this could be the end of belichick's tenure in new england. there's been some reporting that could be the case. this is a good reporter who said this, well sourced in the patriot organization, but even he couched it not a certainty and others have yet to confirm it. we don't have a final answer, but if this is indeed the end for bill belichick, a brutal finish. three wins this year. one of the worst teams in the nfl. they are positioned to get a good draft pick and potentially a franchise quarterback next year. the reporting suggests he hasn't been fired because the patriots might look to trade him. belichick wouldn't call it a career but coach for some team like the chargers or commanders. he's only a few wins shy of the all-time record. it's thought he would want to keep coping to get that. what an incredible run. i would argue the greatest defensive mind and head coach in nfl history. six super bowls for the new england patriots. >> you know, mike barnicle, though, it has been a disastrous few years after tom brady left, just a disastrous few years. >> if i were betting i would bet at the end of the season robert kraft sits down with bill belichick, you can stay one more year, but i'm going to surround you with a general manager and director of player personnel because you've been doing everything yourself all on your own for the past four or five years, maybe longer than that, joe, and look at the draft picks you've chosen. they've all been failures. you have no roster management, no roster composition that makes sense in today national football league, so it's your call. let me do this, surround you with the support staff, or you leave. but it's your call. i don't think he will step up to the plate and fire him. one more additional fact, on patrick mahomes, i love the guy and it's the heat of the battle, the intensity of the game. i want my quarterback being that angry, and if i'm playing for him, i would play harder for him. leave patrick mahomes alone. >> okay. >> no, no. one final thing, mike -- >> oh, my gosh -- >> is major league baseball going to call the otani arrangement illegal? it is so unfair for them to defer $68 million a year? it's just a scam to give $700 million contract and say oh, we're going to defer most of it so they can keep spending money on massive contracts? >> yeah. i don't know how much of that money is going to have to be carried on the annual budget of the dodgers. i don't know how much of that will account on the salary cap. i do know that several years ago, when the yankees and the -- when the texas rangers and the red sox coordinated a deal to ship alex rodriguez to the boston red sox, part of the deal was that the red sox were going to renegotiate alex rodriguez's contract. they were going to slice some money off the top and pay him on a later annual basis in order to reduce the cost on their annual cap, the red sox cap. then the major league baseball players association said you couldn't do it and they couldn't do it and the trade did not go through. a-rod never became a member of the red sox, thank god, but this seems similar to what they renounced doing to alex rodriguez and the red sox. so i don't know. we'll see how it plays out. >> yeah. >> all right. we're going to get to our top story, just a tad late this morning. new 2024 polling shows a neck and neck race between president joe biden and former president donald trump. according to the latest numbers from reuters and ipsos, trump leads biden by 2 points, 38% to 36%, among all adults. that is within the poll's margin of error. reuters adds, quote, in the seven states where the election was closest in 2020, wisconsin, pennsylvania, arizona, georgia, nevada, north carolina, and michigan, biden had a 4-point lead among americans who said they were sure to vote, but when robert f. kennedy jr. is on the ballot, trump's lead expands, 36% to 31%, while kennedy nets 16% of the vote. reuters also notes that is an option, trump takes a five point lead over biden in the seven swing states previously mentioned. >> reverend al, a lot of moving parts there, but some good news for joe biden, but some real challenges ahead. what's he got to do? >> he has to now make the campaign about people voting for their own interests, not just this contest between two older men, between trump, who is clearly corrupt, and biden. i think that the more it is a personality contest, the more it will be neck and neck. but when you point out to women their interests to be serves and not served in the outcome of this election, after the decision on roe versus wade, you point out the black community where you need big turnout about the affirmative action killing and dei that's being demonized, people like ayman, attacking a black university president saying she's a dei choice or a choice that was not qualified, when you have people unemployed at disproportionate rates, people will come out and vote for themselves. they must transition this race to have people deal with their interests, not choosing between two political figures. >> claire, fascinating to look at the battleground numbers inside this n reuters poll. there's been so much consternation. a new poll comes out every day, people ride this roller coaster of polling, but in this poll, anyway, joe biden does well. 4-point lead in the states combined of wisconsin, pennsylvania, arizona, georgia, nevada, north carolina and michigan, the states that will decide a presidential election. a reminder to pause your panic because they're all close and within the margin of error if you look state by state. >> yeah. i think, frankly, the thing that is most interesting to me about this polling is the third-party mischief that the biden campaign is going to have to deal with. you have no labels not naming a candidate. most people don't realize this, they're not naming a candidate because they can get on ballots easier as a party without a candidate name. and then you have this rfk thing. the biden campaign is going to have to do a gut-check and decide when they have to begin informing low information voters that rfk jr. is a conspiracy nut. he is, you know, in the same category as many of the others that see, you know, big boogiemen behind every door that aren't there, including someone who doesn't believe in real science. so it is i think important that the biden campaign begin to plan on what they're going to do in the six swing states if they have both a no labels candidate and rfk on the ballot. >> yeah. all right. we're going to continue to follow that. we also want to get to this new court filing which is giving a closer look at how special counsel jack smith's team plans to present its case in the federal 2020 election interference trial. the special counsel's office says it will use data from donald trump's white house cell phone as part of its case. the court filing on monday showed smith's team plans to call an expert witness who has, quote, processed data from the phone of the former president and that expert will discuss phone data from an additional unnamed person. axios reports the witness would determine the usages of the phones during the post-2020 election period, including on and around january 6th, 2021. that includes the periods of time when the twitter app was opened on trump's phone on the day of the capitol riot per the court filing. former president trump has pleaded not guilty to all charges brought by the special counsel and his team did not respond to the request from axios for comment. >> jonathan lemire, if this is the case, it seems to be lining up as the greatest risk to donald trump, not even before the election but possibly before the republican convention. talk about what's going on in judge chutskin's room? >> this is a development that will reveal where donald trump was in the white house in the days around january 6th, and i would have been reporting widely he spent much of it in the private dining room off the oval office watching and rewatching, rewinding his favorite parts of the footage of the violent insurrection act of the u.s. capitol. all eyes are on this case and we've talked a lot about on the show, about how this one was designed to come to trial and reach a verdict before next november's election. all of the others are going -- purposely being slower. many legal experts think the classified documents is open and shut is proceeding slowly, some for legitimate reasons because it's about a classified material and it's slow, some is because a friendly judge is happy to slow things down. the one in new york seen as the smallest of the cases, that prosecutor has signaled he's happy to wait. it comes down to the january 6th case here in washington, and that's why you see the trump team, the trump legal team in recent days, throw hail mary after hail mary to try to get a delay with the most recent being, this idea of suggesting that the president has immunity whatsoever and can't be charged. that's why jack smith is hustling and asked for the expedited decision from the supreme court, skipping other courts of appeals, to try to get an answer to this sooner than later. we will see what the court decides. of course there are plenty of trump appointees on it. during the 2020 election we saw the supreme court wouldn't touch those cases. they didn't help donald trump, even as there will be calls for clarence thomas whose wife ginni thomas involved in the effort to recuse himself, no sign he will. >> claire, we spent a lot of time talking about polls and the politics and coming up the presidential race that's going on right now, actually, and there's a lot of focus on president biden. he slipped yesterday or used the wrong verb yesterday. the weight of jack smith's january 6th investigation on the candidacy of donald trump, has to be overwhelming? this latest news with regard to the cell phone usage and the capture of the cell phone information and the unknown third party that's involved in all of this that will be revealed at some point, can you imagine having been on the ballot, having run, being out there in public, carrying that weight, along the candidate's trail on a daily basis? it's got to be -- i don't care how he behaves and how crazy he behaves and acts and says things on tv, it's got to be an enormous burden? >> you know, i don't know, barnicle. i don't know. because if you look at it, if you back up and look at it from a distance, this is a guy that is stronger politically today than he was a year ago. america knows what he did. america knows that he's been charged with 91 felonies in four jurisdictions. america knows that he instigated a coup and an insurrection and that over a thousand people have gone to jail for what they did that day, so it almost, you know, it hardens his support in a fraction of america. the question is, will the actual trial and when this evidence comes out, will it move those swing voters, those voters that voted for biden four years ago that have been making rumblings maybe they won't again? those voters who said maybe they're not interested in voting, will it move those to move in the six tipping states we mentioned before. i think as lemire referred to, the supreme court case, this is a big deal they asked trump to respond by next week. i think the supreme court will weigh in and say the president -- the former president is not above the law. obviously, if they say he is above the law we have a whole nother furor that's going to be unleashed in this country, i can't imagine they will do that, but it's possible with a court full of very conservative and folks who are put there by trump. >> if you go back to 2020, they have been consistent on questions of presidential privilege, on questions of donald trump escaping justice. they have been consistent and have voted against every one of his sham pleas and sham plays. willie, claire is right, so many americans do know about all of these counts against him. there is a portion of america that discounts it and thinks it's all conspiracies against donald trump. but we've talked about this before. there's also a good chunk of people who don't give a dam, people you and i know, they don't -- they don't care that he stole nuclear secrets and they don't care that he was -- he was a person responsible for the january 6th riots, they just don't care. and you can't make them care. it's one of the most -- one of the most remarkable thing i think i've seen in all the years i have been following american politics. they don't give a dam that a guy who is an authoritarian and promised to be a dictator from day one, promised to execute generals who aren't sufficiently loyal to him, who wanted to hang mike pence and said he deserved it, his vice president, who wants to take networks off the air if they're insufficiently loyal to him, wanted to terminate the constitution, they don't care. they're still voting for that guy. >> yeah. it is a phenomenon that continues and in many ways, as claire says, gets stronger. i've had conversations with people just like you're describing, well informed, smart, educated people, and the response to everything is, biden is so old. like we can't elect that guy. okay. when you put those two things on a balance there, which is worse? is it these crimes which -- alleged crimes which, by the way, if you go into certain information silos, most of the people you and i are speaking to live in, these are trumped up charges and it is biden's justice department going after donald trump to keep him off the ballot somehow or prevent him from being president again, and not what we've all covered and studied every day, which is a man who attempted to lead a coup against the united states government in 0e, a man who took troves of classified documents back to his beach club. you can go into georgia and talk about that case as well. it's all real, but if you watch, rev, certain news channels or read websites or podcasts, this is all an elaborate scheme to get donald trump and they feel like they need to stand and defend him. their only counter argument is, joe biden is old. >> i think you've got to be realistic. they feel they have to defend him for whatever reasons that they feel he represents them. so what you have to do is you have to go harden your base and then get the independents who don't want to see a president that has faced four cases and one civil case and has clearly said he would be an autocrat. i think we waste time trying to preach to people that have already made up their minds this is the way i'm going, i don't care what you say, anything you say is a conspiracy. you need to deal with people that i think are more reasonable and they're the majority of americans that don't want to see the poisoning of the oval office. >> what is the flip side of what you were just talking about right now, in the house of representatives, on the republican side, you can make a strong case there's a concerted effort every day not to pass legislation that's going to benefit all americans, a concerted effort, joe, to destroy a presidency. every day, they do something to try to destroy a presidency, whether it's through hurting his son or damaging the existing presidency -- the president of the united states, he's functioning as, every day that's their single most important objective. >> and damaging people. they're talking about repealing the affordable care act. if you start talking about that to seniors and others that depend on that, then the issue is not trump and his persona, it's them. that's ha they've got to start saying. >> why are they doing this? they're running interference and they're going to have a vote later today on an impeachment inquiry into president biden. they're doing it to protect donald trump. they're doing it to protect the guy who has lost them how many elections, joe, you have the run of it over the last several siles, doing it to protect the guy who is saying out loud he wants to be an authoritarian and i guess they like that. >> they have lost -- donald trump has lost about as many elections for republicans as nick saban has won national championships for the university of alabama. that's a lot. that's a lot. but i just, rev, i think rev really touched on something. it's a genius approach, rev. get people not to vote for joe biden, not vote for donald trump, get people to vote for themselves. if you are a woman and your right of 50 years has been taken away from you, vote for yourself. vote for your rights. vote for your freedom. that's joe biden. if you are a muslim in michigan, and you are wondering what you should do, look at the guy who has promised another muslim ban. he just did this past week. he did it back in 2016. don't vote for biden, don't vote for trump, vote for yourself. working-class americans, vote for themselves instead of the guy that had the largest tax cuts for billionaires in the history of america. you brought it up, too. vote for yourself. vote for your health care, vote for your children, vote for your grandparents. vote against the guy that wants to take away the affordable care act, obamacare. this is -- this is actually brilliant. vote for yourself. and that's something i hope the biden administration, the biden -- actually, i hope that's something the biden campaign pushes really hard because it works. >> it is the way to run this campaign because it happens to be true. you know, when i was a youngster, just starting in civil rights, there was a lady named reverend barrow, she said self-interest is keys to organizing. how do you get people to go out in the street and risk arrest? you must convince them it's in their interest. if the biden campaign and dnc start talking about people's interests, not this whole cast of characters that you like or don't like, people will vote their interests if you make them understand it is about their interests. >> all right. moving on now to ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy and his visit to washington yesterday, which seemed to fail to sway enough republicans to deliver more aid for the fight against russia. president biden announced $200 million worth of preapproved aid that will go towards ukraine's war effort, but senate minority leader mitch mcconnell said yesterday it will be practically impossible to get a supplemental funding deal done before the christmas holiday. during a news conference with zelenskyy, president biden called out republicans for holding up the aid package. >> this host of a kremlin-run show said well done, republicans. that's good for us. that's the russians speaking. if you're being celebrated by russian propaganda, it might be time to rethink what you're doing. history will judge harshly those who turned their back on freedom's cause. >> all right. joining us now, national security council coordinator for communications at the white house, retired rear admiral john kirby, thanks for coming back this morning. >> admiral, at the end of the day, do you really think republicans are going to stop the funding of ukrainian's war effort against putin? there's so many people -- we've heard from chairman mccaul, mitch mcconnell also has been a supporter on the senate side, so many republicans have supported this. do you think we get there in the end? >> i think we will, joe, yes. there's tough negotiations still ahead here, but the president's confident there's enough bipartisan support in both chambers, speaker of the house as well, to continue to support ukraine. they all realize what's at stake here. we've got a small number of republicans in the house which absolutely won't support ukraine just on the face of it, but the negotiations -- >> they never will -- >> that's right. >> and it seems that the white house is more than willing to meet republicans halfway or even more than halfway on border negotiations. but word out from "the new york times" unnamed republicans saying they're going to push the president to the wall and even if he meets them halfway, they still may reject it for political purposes. what can you tell us about that? >> i won't get into negotiating here in public. those comments are deeply unfortunate. the president has said, and he continues to say, joe, he's willing to sit down an negotiate in good faith, and to explore both border security issues, but also border policy and immigration policy. he's willing to talk about all those things. but, obviously, he wants that to proceed in good faith. obviously, if it's a negotiation, i don't need to tell you this, that means compromise and not everybody is going to get everything they want. the president understand that. he's willing to have that conversation. and again, we're pursuing those negotiations with that in mind. >> i want to move to israel. admiral, at this time yesterday, some things have changed. president biden says netanyahu needs to change. we have been talking about the impossible to explain response time to october 7th, and the support that israel gave to have the funding go straight to -- >> doha. >> doha funding to hamas. hamas terrorists, they say want to kill jews 24/7. it's a circle of questions that don't get answered, and it appears president biden is asking for more. how does he want netanyahu to change? >> well, we want to see is that intent that the israelis have put forward particularly with civilian casualties is maxed by results. they are trying to be more precise and targeted but it doesn't always come out that way on the battlefield. we're going to make sure they haven to have the weapons and tools and capabilities they need to go after hamas, but what the president really also wants are israeli counterparts to start thinking about and talking to us about, is what's the day after in gaza look like? how does governance look? how do we meet the aspirations of the palestinian people, the most who don't support hamas and don't feel hamas represents them. we have to work on the palestinian authority making sure they can be reformed and revitalized. those are the sorts of changes the president is seeking to change here. >> the president is reported to have said in the donor meeting that bombing from netanyahu, from israel, has been, quote, indiscriminate. israel would say it's precision bombing, hamas puts civilians between it and the bombs, that israel has warned before it's going to bomb, give safe zones and the rest of it. do you believe that bombing from israel has been indiscriminate? >> it's like i said before, and this is what the president was referring to, that we know that they have good intentions here, and they have made efforts, willie, to be clear, in the north they went in with a smaller force than originally planned, so that they could be more precise on the ground. they have published online maps for people to know where they shouldn't go in south gaza. that's a modern military tell graphing their punches. that's extraordinary. but while the intention is there and they have taken some actions against, some of the results are not commensurate with those minimizing of civilian casualties. jake sullivan is in the region and he will be having meetings tomorrow, i believe, in tel aviv all to that effect, to see what we can do to continue to help israel fight this fight, but to do so in a way that minimizes civilian casualties. >> good morning. it's jonathan. on the subject of military tactics put forth by the idf, they have tested out a procedure that would flood the tunnels underneath sections of gaza with sea water to chase out terrorists hiding there. some have raised concerns that could spell trouble for any hostages being held there. what does the white house believe of this plan? >> well, i won't speak to israeli tactics specifically. they should speak to the things they're doing tactically to try go after hamas and their ability to command and control. it's certainly no secret to anybody that there are hundreds of miles of tunnels and apparatus under the ground they use for command and control, for restocking, restoring, for harboring their fighters, and it's possible, in fact we know that some of the hostages were kept at least temporarily in some of these tunnels. i've just say this, jonathan, we know they're up against a determined foe who continues to use human beings as shields, continues to hide under their infrastructure, and that presents an added and a special burden for the israeli military as they try to go after that leadership. we'll do everything we can, again, to help them with the tools and capabilities, but also urge them as they pursue tactics against hamas leaders, that they do so in a way that protects civilian structure as much as possible and minimizes risk to innocent civilian life that might be represented, whether it's above ground or underground. >> admiral, the secretary general of the u.n. nations has called for a cease-fire. i don't believe the secretary general of the united nation has ever called for the international red cross to be able to treat the hostages that hamas is holding. i'm wondering on the hostages and international red cross, what kind of pressure is the administration putting on or trying to put on hamas and -- to get the hostages seen by the international red cross? >> we've been trying to pursue this very, very hard, mike, and we have been putting a lot of pressure on hamas through our interlock administrators, we don't have direct communication with hamas, to aallow the red cross to have contact with the hostages. that was part of the deal, the red cross would get in to see the hostages that weren't going to be released and that hasn't happened yet. that opens up so many more questions for the families. i mean, having the red cross have access to them would tell us where they are, how they are, what kind of conditions are being held in, and it's worrisome to the extreme that hamas won't allow the red cross that access because -- they must be trying to hide something. we're going to keep pushing to get that access as much as possible. it's really important. back to the issue of a cease-fire, we don't support a general cease-fire at this time. that would leave hamas in power in gaza, validate what they did on the 7th of october and give them a larger amount of time to restock and restore themselves and refit and plan and conduct additional attacks. >> national security council spokesman, retired rear admiral john kirby, thank you, once again. >> thank you. >> for coming on this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," abortion rights activists are taking their fights to states with severe restrictions. nbc's morgan radford joins us with a look at how democrats in florida are pushing to get the issue on the ballot in 2024, and the help they're getting from an unlikely source. also ahead, democratic members of the oversight committee, congressman dan goldman and jared moskowitz will be our guests and we'll talk to them about today's house vote to approve an impeachment inquiry into president biden. u're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. oe." we'll be right back. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. 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(vo) whichever. get your competitve offer at opendoor.com. i'm andrea, and this is why i switched to shopify. it gave me so much peace of mind. if we make a change, my site's not going to go down. and just knowing that i have a platform that we can rely on, that is gold to us. start your free trial today. beautiful live picture of the white house. 7:40 on a wednesday morning. now back to one of the big issues that will drive the 2024 campaign. florida among nine states where abortion could be on the ballot next year in the form of a constitutional amendment. morgan radford joins us with a look at how this fight is shaping up, and it sounds like it's not just democrats, but republicans pushing to get these on the ballot. >> you've got it. it's interesting because at issue is a constitutional amendment that would protect abortion rights up to 24 weeks. similar measures have been successful in kansas and ohio be and it's all part of a broader effort to put abortion before voters at a state level. to get this language on the ballot supporters need to gather almost 900,000 signatures by february 1st. although a popular position among democrats, as you mention, they say they're getting help from across the political spectrum. >> thank you for signing. >> good afternoon. >> reporter: at festivals, farmers markets, even the beach, volunteers here in florida are fanning out. >> bringing the petition to pool parties -- >> reporter: trying to get one issue on the 2024 ballot, a constitutional amendment that would bar any restrictions on abortion before viability around the 24th week of pregnancy, or when necessary, to protect the patient's health. >> i don't think there's any doubt that when this thing is on the ballot, that it will pass. >> reporter: anna leads the florida women's freedom coalition, one of several groups lined the movement from right here in her south florida home. a coalition she says doesn't just include democrats. by her organization's count of the 1.3 million signatures they've collected thus far, more than 150,000 have come from registered republicans. >> i had one woman say to me, i was in a room full of republican women when we heard roe v. wade was overturned and it was like being at a funeral. they had all been through this battle before and thought it was settled. >> are you both registered republicans? >> yes. >> yes. >> reporter: and there are voices behind those numbers. carole whitmohr was introduced to us by the florida women's freedom sdmoolgs to say women can't make this important decision in their life is atrocious, so you will be surprised and you will hear there are a lot of republicans that support what jamie and i do. >> reporter: her friend, jamie carter, is unaffiliated with the organization, but has signed a petition in favor of the amendment. >> there's a lot of people that you wouldn't think would be the pro choice advocates, but they are. i think it's really just having control of our own bodies. that's -- and the government overreach is huge right now. >> what do you think happens if the republican party as a whole doesn't see this issue the way that you do. >> the national level they're realizing they're not going to win this battle. >> reporter: former state representative carlos and ed williamson a prominent local businessmen are donating time and money to the petition cause. both are registered republicans. >> why do you think it's important that you speak out as men on this issue? >> i expect my privacy rights to be respected by the government. i don't want to be forced to be vaccinated and for that reason a women's right to choose is fundamental. it should be defended. >> carlos is right, and, of course, the right to an abortion, i think, is one of those things that the government's got no business being into. >> reporter: nationally they're not alone. recent gallup polls show 24% of republicans believe abortion should be illegal in all cases. but in a state where republican governor ron desantis won re-election by nearly 20 percentage points, then signed legislation that would ban most abortion after six weeks, political experts we spoke to said, the measure is not guaranteed. >> you're going to get a substantial support across party line for this kind of amendment. we've seen that in states that are more republican than florida is. the big caveat, though, especially here in florida, is that the threshold is 60%. that's a difficult threshold on any issue, let alone one that can be quite as divisive as the abortion issue. >> this is something that a lot of people don't talk about but know how they're going to vote. when you get behind that booth and do your thing we're going to speak up for ourselves. >> we reached out to republican party of florida multiple times via phone and e-mail and they have yet to respond to our requests for comment. the state's republican attorney general ashley moody has filed a brief with the state supreme court urging it to keep the question from appearing on the ballot. regardless of how many signatures are collected and as for that six-week abortion ban, it's still on hold pending a state court decision on florida's current 15-week ban which went in into effect in 2022. no matter the outcome if this measure were to pass in 2024, both laws would be automatically invalidated. >> a fascinating look at this issue which roe versus wade, spurred all of this, but also in the year and a half since then, we've seen people going to the ballot, going to the ballot box, and saying no, we want to keep our rights. republicans as well. it's not just new york city. it's kansas and it's ohio and places that are -- that lean more red. so why now, i guess, is the question? >> it's why now and also the question for us, was like why this issue? why is this the issue you're choosing to sort of break ranks with. they said, you know, why not this issue? because according to them, we said a lot of people don't believe that it was republican women out protesting in the streets after the dobbs decision and how do you know it wasn't us? how do you know that we weren't the ones out on the street. what we're doing in the ballot box we were in the streets. you didn't know because this, they say, is an issue that fits an alignment with their conservative ideals about personal freedoms and small government. the key, they said, is how they recruit people to their side of this issue. they said they do it with language that they think is more open, so instead of signaling more progressive values like saying birthing persons, they have said women and girls. that sort of leaves the door open to get more republican women on their side on this issue. >> and claire, we heard from the two republican men say what morgan said, which is, i'm a small government republican, i don't want the attorney general of texas, for example, stepping in to this relationship that a woman has with her doctor when her baby has a fatal condition and wants to get health care for that. it is a small government position to say get the government out of my health care. >> yeah. no question. and the cases that we're seeing that are heartbreaking where people have lad the nerve to say the woman was having an elective abortion when the doctor was explaining her chile is going to die and she was going to risk her reproductive ability in the future, a woman who wanted more children, those cases help. i will tell you as a word of caution, we're struggling in missouri right now because there is a disagreement among those people who want to make sure the government stays out of women's decisions on reproductive health, and the language matters and getting everyone on the same page matters. we're seeing in some states where some people want to go further than the electorate will. for example, making sure their taxpayer funded abortions. well, that's not going to pass in missouri, so each individual state has to make sure they go as far as they possibly can, where their state will still support it. i'm afraid we're going to miss the mark in missouri because the people who are advocating can't agree among themselves what language should go on the ballot. >> you have to know your state. >> thank you very much. morgan radford, thank you as always. that was so interesting. appreciate it. today house republicans are expected to vote to formalize their impeachment inquiry into president biden. up next, we will speak with congressman joe neguse who served during donald trump's second impeachment trial. 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include injection site reactions. talk to your neurologist about vyvgart. president because you don't like him. that's not how this works. you don't get to make that decision, the voters in the country get to. let the people decide. don't put yourselves in their place. you don't have the right to do it. >> that was house speaer, mike johnson. today 11 months before an election, speaker johnson is scheduling a partisan vote on an impeachment inquiry into president biden. joining us now, democratic congressman, joe neguse, he sits on the house rules and judiciary committee. what a difference five years makes. what do republicans have to put on the table for impeachment? >> it's good to be with you. the answer is nothing. they know the process will be an utter waste of time, and i think the most salient question is why, why pursue this path? it's clear to me and most americans, this is a political act being done for retribution for former president trump, and on january 6th he disrupted the electoral policy proceedings, and that impeachment was bipartisan, and former president trump has been focused every since on exacting retribution, and the sick afans. >> boy, does that clip capture this moment, when you have now speaker of the house back when it was joe biden, and now we are talking about having one standard for trump. what republicans are saying, we're just asking questions, and we want to open it up and see if there's anything here as they continue to say across committees, and there's a lot of smoke and let's see if there's fire. what do you make of that argument? >> i think it's intellectually dishonest, willie. a vast majority of republicans made their decision as to whether or not they believe president biden should be impeached. they have no explanation as to what crime they are investigating. they have yet to offer any kind of rational explanation of a constitutional connection for the high crime and misdemeanor they apparently believe the president committed. it's a baseless inquiry and one devoid of transparency, and the vast majority has been behind closed doors, unfortunately. this is how republicans pursued their power in washington in the last 11 1/2 months. >> congressman joe neguse, sharpton here. you were involved in a committee that was dealing to stop the process of a transition of power of really overthrowing a government that had been elected, and now we have this proposed inquiry into something that is basically a fishing expedition hoping to come up with a fish. are we making a mockery of these kind of congressional enquiries that could come back to haunt us where americans don't take any of the inquiries seriously, because we go through these informative inquiry rather than going through the laws that are dangerous to our government? >> they have conceded this is a political exercise on their part, and there can be no comparison to the actions of former president trump, and the responsibility congress had on a bipartisan basis to vindicate the constitution. clearly, as i said, there's no evidentiary basis. house republicans attempted to shutdown the government twice. the only thing they have done of substance is to expel george santos, and they are not focussed on making the american peoples' lives better or easier. it's a deep contrast, a stark contrast with house democrats under leader jeffries, and trying to build safer communities and grow the middle class, and i hope some republicans will see the writing on the wall and realize that this is not a plausible or prudent path for the country and join us in some of the challenges that i mentioned. >> democratic congressman, joe neguse, thank you for coming on this morning. we appreciate it. up next we will go through president biden's harshest criticism yet, the israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. we're back in two minutes. tanya. we're back in two minutes. and here. not so much here. farxiga reduces the risk of kidney failure which 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united states failing to deliver for ukraine. we must, we must, we must prove him wrong. >> president biden yesterday calling for congress to act on critical funding for ukraine. there are major developments with both hot wars overseas that the president is trying to manage right now. he's fighting for ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy and that country's desperate need for more weapons, while talking tough about another leader. israeli prime minister netanyahu is losing support globally over the mounting civilian casualties in gaza, among other things. and with a vote today on an impeachment inquiry into president biden, and it comes as the president's son is in a standoff with house republicans in a public versus private hearing, and we are keeping an eye on wall street and the fed and the future of interest rates. it's december 13th. with us we have the host of "way too early," jonathan lemire, and former chief analyst for nbc news, and richard haus is with us, and jackie alemany. >> we have so much to talk about today. >> i know. >> we also have a poll, by the way. the polls go back and forth, and we have a poll that shows joe biden leading in the swing states that he won last time. we will get to that poll in just a minute. i wonder if people will obsess about this poll for a month like they do that are bad polls for joe biden. but what stuck out to me in "the times" report yesterday, and the republicans standing back, j.d. vance, this is stupid, and oh, like that, and russia started the war. they have lost 315,000 of those 360,000 troops, and that means they're having to go into prisons and scrape people off the streets, and they are having to fight with people that never fought in a war before. you look at what they are fighting with. tanks. they started with 3,500 tanks, and they have lost two-thirds of them. they lost about 2200, 2300 tanks, and they are having to find tanks 50 years old to throw out there. here you have a country that considers itself america's enemy, putin considers himself as america's enemy, and it has gutted their military, and yet republicans, the party of ronald reagan doesn't see the value of continuing to support freedom fighters, and letting them fight this war against russia instead of us. not one american has died in the war, and the toll on russia has been overwhelming. >> yeah, i mean, we knew the war was going badly for vladimir putin. i don't think we knew it was going this badly. admiral, the numbers are staggering. putin is having to empty the prisons to fight on the front lines, and the biden administration is making the argument to congress that they need us in that war, and the case is clear, without the united states, russia could make progress in a way it hasn't over the last almost two years now. >> yeah, let's start with those numbers. if i had started as the war's russian general, and i think i would be a corporal in the russian army. it has been a disaster of leadership and military operation and logistics, and to the butcher's bill joe laid out a moment ago, don't forget 500,000 russian males of draft age have left russia. can you add that to your casualty list. i bet most of those aren't coming back. news flash. those are the international savvy ones, the smart ones and the ones that had resources to get away from what vladimir putin is creating. now in the midst of this, let's face it, good news for zelenskyy. just one cautionary note, russia is reaching out to north korea and iran to replenish these military stocks, and they do have a population triple that of ukraine, and there is still manpower, albeit, as you point out, depressed capabilities coming out of prisons, but i don't like the russian hand of cards militarily here. i think where this leads us is the probability of a static set of military lines between the two sides, and i think it's rising at this point rather than falling. >> yeah, i agree. it suggests at some point there needs to be negotiations to bring this war to an end. i think it would help zelenskyy and the ukrainians to send that message to lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. we are not going to keep fighting the war for three or four years. we are going to have to go to the negotiating table, because this is -- this is not a forever war. richard, we should look at the republicans, the republicans holding support for israel hostage, and holding support for the ukrainian soldiers hostage. we should look at that through the lenses of what donald trump did to zelenskyy, and he told zelenskyy i am not going to send you any defensive weapons until you get dirt on my political rivals. they are impacting -- trump is impacting u.s. foreign policy for his own personal purposes, and you have the republicans that claim they want to support israel and ukraine, but they are holding that for border security. here's the rub. biden wants them to know he will meet them more than halfway, and the republican response, we're not going to do a deal. we're going to make it impossible for joe biden to get a deal done by the end of the year, all for just naked political reasons, and they are willing to leave israel and ukraine hanging out there. >> look, if that's the case, joe, it's bad for border security and it's bad for america's reputation in the world, and bad for american security. i was with j.d. vance yesterday, and when he spoke with ukraine his whole emphasis was an isolationist thing, we have to do more at home and not abroad, and it was the familiar stuff of bashing the allies, they are not doing enough. what ukraine needs to think about, and there was a big story yesterday in the "new york times" about it, i think they have a much more compelling story if they focus on survival and maintaining what they have got. even if they got the aid that you would like to see going to them, the idea that they could roll back the russians and regain the country that was once there is, i think, a long shot. russia can produce more stuff militarily than we can, and that's another conversation about what happened to the manufacturing base. let's put that aside. i think ukraine has a stronger story if they say, we need the help to keep what we have got to survive, and we can talk about the relationship with nato and the european union, and it will be harder and harder to make the argument, if you give aid to ukraine, they will be successful, and at some point mr. zelenskyy will have to say for the near term we cannot accomplish it through military means but keep it on the agenda. >> supplemental funding for ukraine before christmas seems unlikely with mitch mcconnell saying yesterday it would be practically impossible, in his words, to get a deal done. and house speaker mike johnson told nbc news said they would approve a plan if they give us the border. and zelenskyy was making the case to congress yesterday that he needs the aid. he was pushed about the u.s. border, and he said i don't know anything about your border, and he said i am here to talk about ukraine. it sounds like the white house may be open to something on the border and talking to senate republicans about a deal to get this aid to ukraine. where does it stand this morning? >> i will say conversations were more productive yesterday than last week after we saw republicans storm out of the meeting on border security and having president zelenskyy cancelled his scheduled zoom with lawmakers to try and convince them to continue to send $61 billion to kyiv, as part of the bigger $100 billion foreign package. that is not to say that there's optimism that a deal will get done prior to the christmas holiday that we have been saying for weeks now, and our sources have been worried about that. zelenskyy did visit capitol hill yesterday, and he received the decision from lawmakers that they did not see his argument which was sufficient as to why the united states should fund them militarily. and he tried to make the case behind closed doors, that some of the tactics we saw employed against u.s. forces in afghanistan and iraq will continue and surge from russian troops. the remainder of those details of the game plan going forward were, again, not clear enough for leaders to decide, at least republicans leaders, that they were going to continue this. however, the biden administration has privately been trying to encourage democrats to engage in the border conversation, and there was a two-hour long meeting with chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell to hammer out more details about a package that the senate and house republicans are not going to support ukraine aid unless they get more assistance when it comes to the border. these tenants and some of the things that lawmakers are discussing about bringing back now, the title 42-esque policies will not be popular with progressive democrats. >> jonathan lemire, the white house has calculated that in. they want a deal. they want a deal because they care about mr. vladimir putin gets to kyiv. they want a deal because they want the israelis to be able to defend themselves, and they want a deal on the border, and so i see all of this sort of negotiating and everybody circling around each other, but this is sort of starting to remind me of dead extension talks, and they say we are never going to do a deal, we're never going to do a deal and then they get a deal done. here we have people squawking about we don't want to help the ukrainians and we don't want to help the israelis and it's about border security. >> do they have a border security plan? >> yeah, they do. >> okay. >> my point is, they will get to a deal. the republicans can play tough all they want to, but are they really going to be the ones that vladimir putin will be thanking when the tanks roll into kyiv, and is hamas going to thank johnson and the house for gutting support? no, they are not going to do that. and talk to what you have heard in the white house about that they want a deal, not just for israel and ukraine, but they want a deal on the border so they can be tougher and be able to say, we couldn't do anything about it because of the funding fight? >> yeah, there are a few things, and first joe biden is open to a deal, and that's a calculation this white house has made, and yes, there will be progressive blowback. that has created some anxiety as president biden prepares to face voters next year, and they believe those voters will come back and it's a far greater risk to not do anything at the border. the white house acknowledges that it has been a weak spot since the president's first day in office, and they did not have a good plan there and there is a sense, and i talked to senior officials yesterday after the meetings, and there's more optimism a deal could come. the timing is important, and it's unlikely to happen now, and therefore it will spill into january where there's fights about government funding and a possible shutdown, and we will start to feel the lack of american aid will be felt on the battlefield, and to circle back to the statistics, the incredible statistics about the number of russian losses, and there's a sense that putin has momentum, and the ukrainian counter offenses failed and russia has been able to supply, and there's a sense that russia will launch an offensive that could be more effective if ukrainians run out of supplies and ammo which is at risk if a deal doesn't get done and get done soon. >> i have to ask, every day that this goes by, admiral, what message does it send to our nato and european allies, and the word in europe is that putin is winning. what message does it say to them, and president xi? >> in a phrase, the world is watching. what is going to occur in ukraine will have affects to president xi and taiwan, and it's a global stage congress is playing on, and they need to realize that. back to the conversation richard was having with j.d. vance. i would say, senator vance, you are a veteran, and you know what it means to the supply to the force in a fight, and you can't choke it off and say in 60 days we will turn the spigot back on. third and finally, let's do the numbers for a minute here. the total package we are talking about -- i support all four of the initiatives and they are all for legitimate secures, and it's a lot of money, and our defense budget which guarantees our national security is $900 billion. the portion of that dedicated to ukraine is well under 5%, 3% to 5% of the defense budget. what are we getting for that money? we are breaking the russian military. last point, the europeans are in the game. they have spent more on ukraine than the united states of america. our allies are with us on this, and they are seeing a blinking yellow light. coming up, a live report from the white house as president biden steps up his criticism about the way israel is waging war in gaza. peter alexander has the latest just ahead on "morning joe." in the u.s. we see 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[speaker continues in the background] the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business. hi, i'm jason. i've lost 228 pounds on golo. ♪ changing your habits is the only way that gets you to lose the weight. and golo is the plan that's going to help you do that. just take the first step, go to golo.com. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ is this guy still until power after the most greatest intelligence failure since 9/11? >> it's a war. what do you want him to do is step down in the middle of a war? >> well, he was trying to take over with all your right-wing [ bleep ] -- >> you have read the papers today, right? >> he's trying to stay in office to keep his ass out of jail. >> that's a good point. they are in the middle of a war. >> you know what they would do in an incompetent general in world war ii? >> he didn't say it like james carville did, but president biden offered his harshest criticism yet of netanyahu, warning israel is starting to lose international support because of its military campaign in gaza. he made the comments during a fundraiser in washington yesterday. biden suggested support from europe and the united states is waning because of israel's, quote, indiscriminate bombing. he said the prime minister doesn't want anything remotely approaching a two-state solution, adding netanyahu needs to change. meanwhile in israel shortly before the president's remarks, netanyahu said he would block biden's postwar plan to have the palestinian authority to take over gaza. in a statement netanyahu said, quote, after the great sacrifice of civilians and soldiers i will not allow the entry into gaza for those that educate terrorism, support terrorism and finance terrorism. if you are so sure of that, mr. prime minister, why were the gates left open for these terrorists to run in and wreak havoc all over israel? it took eight hours to respond. if you were so clear on hamas want to go kill jews 365 days a year, every minute of every day, why were you not ready? it makes no sense. and actually to carville's point, i just question at this point what he would do to stay in power, because he has done a number of things in his government leading up to the war to stay in power that many say are naked moves that are just completely corrupt to stay in power. now he's in a war. you can't remove him now because we are in the middle of a war? what next? >> this is exactly when they need new leadership. they need new leadership, and the white house knows this because you have a guy that his very existence is from politics, and he had intel failure, and it led to the death of more jews since the holocaust, and they had plans for the year written down how hamas was going to do it, and they had known this for a year, and not only did they not do anything, they had a meeting in doha -- netanyahu's people in doha in september, and the qataris asked netanyahu's government, does netanyahu still want us to send money to hamas? netanyahu's government said, yes, yes, please keep sending money to hamas. keep funding hamas. the israelis, the netanyahu government had been in on doha funding hamas. you know, we sit back and say, my god, what in the world is qatar doing? they are supposed to be our ally. and then we find out in the "new york times" two days ago that it's actually netanyahu who is telling hamas to keep funding -- >> israel to keep funding hamas. >> israel to keep funding hamas. we have not gotten an answer from anybody in the government on why after 9/11, it took three minutes for first responders to get in there, and after a shooting in nebraska, it took ten minutes to shutdown the entire town, and that's the story across america. >> there is no answer. >> they have no answer. no, no, this is what we keep getting told. a guy that was so incompetent that he allowed the worst killing of jews since the holocaust, and he knew the attack was coming for a year and did nothing about it. he told qatar to send hundreds of millions of dollars to hamas weeks before the attack, and then when the attack came he didn't do a damn thing for eight hours while women were getting raped, and while concertgoers were getting butchered and old women were taken hostage -- >> live on facebook. >> and young boys were seeing their parents shot dead. this is netanyahu's government? richard haus, this whole security doesn't work and james carville is exactly right. it's something that i keep asking myself, and oh, you can't do anything until after the war. you have a guy that allowed this to happen. it was on his watch. he asked doha to fund hamas. his government waited eight hours to go down and answer the calls of women being raped, and children being gunned down, and he's saying we have to get through the war. no, he's incompetent. the israelis don't even like him and they want him out. the question is, when are they going to get the guy responsible for the worst killing of jews since the holocaust out, and bring in leadership that the united states can work with. >> the sooner the better, and one of the incentives that netanyahu makes that they can't change horses during the -- >> no, he's trying to stay out of jail. >> it's like if i said i burn down my house -- no, i burn down your house, and as it's burning down i walk in and throw buckets on there, and you say let's call the fire department, and i say, richard, richard, let's take care of your house first before we call in the fire department. >> well, these people in the parliament agree with him saying they don't want the two-state, and what they want to do is avoid a two-state solution, and continue to populate the west bank. they do not want in any way to meet the palestinians halfway. what was interesting about yesterday is we ripped the band aid off a little bit, and the biden administration and netanyahu, they said it's clear, and the plan for israel right now is a prolonged occupation. they have no alternative to israel being in gaza open-ended because they don't have anybody else to hand authority to, to secure the place. >> do we keep funding netanyahu to let him bomb indiscriminately to figure out a less painful way. >> and he can conveniently avoid the charges against him. >> i talked to people in the biden administration and trump admin station, and people like you, from the obama administration, and they all say we prop up israel, and we prop up especially netanyahu, and he's incompetent, and we prop him up. how long does the united states prop up netanyahu -- not, israel, we support israel, but not netanyahu. >> the biden administration has to be careful here because we are beginning to look like enablers, and we criticize israel every day and get ignored every day. what do we do? one is in the u.n., we can stop giving israel an unconditional veto. israel faces threats with iran and other places, but do they need certain types of ordinances, and i would have the united states not wait for netanyahu, i would take the diplomatic initiative. 30 odd years ago, we convened the madrid peace conference, and i would have the united states working with the arabs and europeans and maybe bring in china, and how do we restart the diplomatic peace in the middle east. what this is is a warning shot that having a vacuum of diplomacy is dangerous. we want to get going and do it with you, and if need be we will launch this as required. i would take that initiative. >> jonathan, what we saw spill into public from president biden what he has been saying privately from the very beginning, which is we are with you netanyahu, and antony blinken will be at your side in tel aviv, but you have to be careful on how you prosecute the war and not give hamas what it wants by provoking you, and now it appears patience has run out, and what does it mean for the future of the war going forward and the relationship? >> i talked to officials yesterday in the aftermath of the president's comments, which you are right, he has been saying this behind the scenes, but nobody in the biden administration, they have been saying this for a while, yes, in the early days of the war israel took u.s. advice on some military strategy to keep their targets more selective, and largely israel is ignoring the guidance the u.s. has tried to provide. the images coming out are not just hurting israel standing in the world, and it's fueling a true humanitarian crisis. a lot of people have died, innocent civilians have died, many of them children. this comes just as netanyahu says they won't even entertain the idea of the future of gaza. there's such a disagreement there, between what the white house wants to happen and what netanyahu wants to happen. there's just going to be further clashes. i was the first to report in the early days of the war that this white house believes netanyahu's political viability is unattainable, that at a certain point he will go. the question is when, joe. now there's concern netanyahu will escalate the fighting in order to stay in power, and that's something being kicked around at the pentagon and white house, and they are growing less and less convinced he can be a true partner. coming up, house republicans are ordering hunter biden to appear on capitol hill today. two democrats that serve on the oversight committee, straight ahead on "morning joe." how's your heart? 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>> yeah, mika, and just to put a cap on the israel conversation, if there's one upside, is the democrats are going to avoid the backlash, but pivoting to what is happening today, the vote, the house to vote for the final authorize investigation of the impeachment inquiry that kevin mccarthy had unilaterally directed to occur is now going to hit the house floor. we are expecting near unanimous support from the house republicans, some of whom were previously red sent to get behind the inquiry, and former speaker mccarthy positioned this more to bolster the house's legal hand when it comes to enforcing subpoenas and fighting certain legal battles with regards to continuing this inquiry. at the end of the day we need to be very clear, house investigative committees, republicans should have been working on the investigation into the biden family finances have not found a link from the business deals to president biden, and as house remembers are going to authorize the inquiry, there's some that do not see the sufficient evidence to go ahead with the former impeachment proceedings, and simultaneously hunter biden is scheduled to be appear on the hill today for his closed-door deposition. he is not expected to participate in that especially after he put in a counteroffer for a subpoena to appear behind closed doors, but said he would testify publicly. james comer all but dared hunter biden to come in publicly or privately to testify rebuffed that offer and said they need to go ahead with a closed door. it's definitely strengthening the legal hand to go forward. >> we will have much more on this, and what an impeachment means for a deeply divided government, straight ahead on "morning joe." my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ ♪♪ new inflation data released yesterday shows consumer price increases remain moderate in november ahead of a key decision by federal reserve officials later todayenon whether to raise interest rates. economists expect to keep them unchanged. joining us former treasury official, economic analyst steve rattner. >> i think they are done. it's an unusual meeting because for an unusual thing they're going to be focused on not so much the rate increases but what the future of the economy looks like and release a summer of economic projections. what people are going to be watching for is the fed ready to declare in effect a soft landing. we were hoping we would be able to get inflation down without a recession. a lot of private economists are saying we think that's going to happen, in part, because of that price report you just referenced, prices only up 3.1% over the last year, and it will be interesting to see if the fed gets on board. the market is expecting significant interest rate cuts next year. the fed has been reticent about that in their last economic report and we'll see what they have to say today. >> so for all the crumbling about these ongoing rate hikes from the fed, does it look like given the data we have and this data yesterday, it got the outcome it wanted taming inflation with the rate hikes? >> yeah. i would say inflation has come down faster and further than probably any of us would have guessed. i don't think many economists -- almost no history of taming inflation of this magnitude without some kind of recession, and i don't want to declare a victory completely but that's the trajectory we're on at the moment. things are looking pretty good. we had a good jobs report since we last talked about this. we had good economic growth reports. it's really an exceptional economy on many levels that the president gets no credit for. if you looked at the recent poll and the handling of the economy, bidenomics, under 30% approval rate, it's a disconnect i can't remember seeing in many years of watching all this stuff. >> well, i think it's -- there are a lot of these numbers leading indicators at some point will start. if we continue going in this direction, i think we will start to see more of an impact. so much of it, steve, goes on, you know, how much are people paying when they go to the pump. it's less now. obviously, gas prices continue to go down. where prices don't continue to go down are at the supermarket. people feel that in a real way. i'm curious, what's still driving -- this is one sector that continues to like hammer americans in their pocketbook. what drives the inflation at the grocery store? what's driving inflation for food? >> well, actually, joe, inflation for food has also come down a lot. i think it was also up something in the 3 or 4% range year over year. we did have -- food is a very idiosyncratic category because it depends a lot on weather. we had a problem with the avian flu where chicken prices went up. we had a problem with eggs. you have a lot of factors driving it. here's a factor probably most people don't know, two facts that most don't know, inflation on goods, everything from used cars to computers and televisions, has turned into deflation. prices on those items are lower than we're year ago. you're going to pay less this christmas for a lot of things, toys, things like that, that you're going to buy for your kids than you did a year ago. the second thing that most americans may not realize in the past year, their incomes have gone up on average about 4%. prices have gone up on average about 3%. in fact, you have real after tax income. the amount of purchasing power americans have is going up at the moment mostly because inflation has come down so much, and yet none of this has permeated the polls, people's appreciation of what's going on, people's sense of positive versus pessimism kind of attitude. it's -- i've never seen quite this much disconnect between the state of an economy and the state of how people feel about the economy. still ahead, russia is bleeding badly on the battlefield according to u.s. intelligence, yet congress is poised to pull back its lifeline to ukraine. what it means for the frontline fight, coming up next, on "morning joe." the virus that causes shingles is sleeping... in 99% of people over 50. it's lying dormant, waiting... and could reactivate. shingles strikes as a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. and it could wake at any time. think you're not at risk for shingles? 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[speaker continues in the background] the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business. my mental health was much better. but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like my movements were in the spotlight. #1-prescribed ingrezza is the only td treatment for adults that's always one pill, once daily. ingrezza 80 mg is proven to reduce td movements in 7 out of 10 people. people taking ingrezza can stay on most mental health meds. ingrezza can cause depression, suicidal thoughts, or actions in patients with huntington's disease. pay close attention to and call your doctor if you become depressed, have sudden changes in mood, behaviors, feelings, or have thoughts of suicide. don't take ingrezza if you're allergic to its ingredients. ingrezza may cause serious side effects, including angioedema, potential heart rhythm problems, and abnormal movements. report fevers, stiff muscles, or problems thinking as these may be life threatening. sleepiness is the most common side effect. it's nice. people focus more on me. ask your doctor about #1 prescribed, once-daily ingrezza. ♪ ingrezza ♪ as we look live at san francisco this morning, welcome to the fourth hour of "morning joe." it is 6:00 a.m. on the west coast, 9:00 a.m. in the east. jonathan lemire and mike barnicle are back with us. in a moment we'll go live to the white house following the ukrainian president's visit yesterday where he made another plea for more funding to fight off russian forces. president biden showed support for volodymyr zelenskyy calling on congress to pass the critical aid and the president had sharp and direct criticism for benjamin netanyahu and the far right members of that country's government. it comes as israel faces growing pressure to pause its military campaign over mounting civilian casualties and a lot of questions hanging in the balance that people want answers to as to israel's response to the whole thing and preparedness. >> let's begin this hour on capitol hill where house republicans are preparing to interview hunter biden for a deposition this morning. it's still unclear if the president's son will appear. republicans have threatened to hold the president's son in contempt of congress if he doesn't show up. hunter biden offered to sit for a deposition, but only in a public hearing. republican committee leaders say he needs to be questioned behind closed doors first. the republican led house expected to vote later today to formalize its impeachment inquiry into president biden. house majority leader, republican steve scalise of louisiana said a full floor vote on the resolution will take place later today, following yesterday's rules committee vote to authorize the probe. four years ago, now speaker mike johnson, argued against a single-party impeachment taking place only 11 months before an election, but argues now that's not what republicans are doing here. >> the founders of this country warned against a single-party impeachment for good reason. they feared that it would bitterly and perhaps irreparably divide our nation. as the next election in 2020 is drawing so close now and their candidates for president are weak, they met somewhere at liberal high command about 75 days ago and convinced nancy pelosi they had to pull the trigger. i hope and pray future congresses can and will exercise greater restraint. >> so the moderates in your caucus would say why not xrers greater restraint? >> we've shown restraint. there are people who are frustrated this hasn't moved faster. i stand by every word i said in that video. big distinction between what's happening now and what democrats do. those are rush, sham impeachments. we have three committees investigating this and following the truth where they lead and they have no -- no option in doing anything else. it's ways and means, judiciary and oversight and they've uncovered alarming facts about the biden family and their dealings. >> smoke no fire. joining us now, democratic members of the house oversight committee, dan goldman of new york and jared moskowitz of florida. good morning. i use that term not as my own but as something that chairman comer has used before. we see an awfully lot of smoke no fire, but that's why we're opening the inquiry to see if there's fire behind that door. congressman goldman, as someone who worked around and advised the committees around impeachment of president trump, what's your reaction to the way that this is being conducted and do they have a point we're just asking questions here with an inquiry? >> well, in 2019, we brought in 17 fact witnesses who all had firsthand knowledge of the situation in ukraine and donald trump's abuse of power. in this investigation there has not been a public hearing with a single fact witness and every closed door deposition has actually undermined the specious allegations that the republicans are bringing. this is a bogus, sham impeachment with no evidence whatsoever. and the notion they need to move forward for some sort of procedural reason is bunk. the biden administration has been way more cooperative than they need to be and far more cooperative than donald trump was when he provided zero documents to the congressional impeachment inquiry in 2019. the administration has provided witnesses, 100,000 or more documents. the problem here is not that they don't have the materials. the problem here is that they don't have any facts to support their allegations of any wrongdoing by president biden. >> and by the way, congressman mass cowitz, we've heard from republicans, there's a two-tiered system of justice that favors democrats u but it is the department of justice under the biden administration that is prosecuting hunter biden >> of course we heard that department of justice is prosecuting hunter biden as a cover-up. i guess the reason donald trump has been indicted by the federal government, new york and georgia, must be trying to cover up all of donald trump's crimes. it's, obviously, totally ridiculous. that's -- they're feeding that to their echo chamber who believes anything they say. i want to go back to this sham impeachment that representative goldman talks about. let's go back to the beginning. joe biden is sworn in and within days of his swearing in, before a hearing, before any documents, witnesses, deposition, members of the republican party, members of the oversight committee that we sit on that committee with r filing articles of impeachment within days of president biden's inauguration. they have all these hearings, multitude of them, winds up at the last hearing we had a couple months, complete failure theater, and their own witness, their constitutional scholars, impeachment witness says everything we know, the tens of thousands of documents that white house has turned over, something that trump administration never did, their witness says it doesn't rise to the level of impeachment. it was totally an awkward moment. what this is about at the end of the day, donald trump has 50% of the impeachments in american history, and he has 100% of the indictments, and joe biden has none of that. so they can't save donald trump. what they're trying to do is please the former president by putting numbers on the board on joe biden, even though there is no evidence of that. you just heard the speaker, speaker johnson, say he praised -- he compares himself to moses, by the way, he prays that they won't impeach a president because they don't like him. apparently his prayer is not going to be answered because hypocrisy knows no bounds in the republican majority. >> congressman goldman, a quick question and follow-up. have you received word if hunter biden is going to appear today to testify? >> i have not received any word. i don't think -- it sounds like what i read in the press, the committee has not either, and i think his -- he has been pretty convincing and pretty certain that he will happily show up and answer every single question under oath, but he wants to do it directly to the american people because the republicans have manipulated their closed-door depositions in an egregious and misleading way, and he does not want to be subject to that after he has received such vicious attacks from the republicans. jonathan, two of 16 closed-door depositions by the republicans have been released to the public. even though they promised to release all of them. they cannot be trusted, and it's clear that hunter biden understand that and that's why he wants to talk to the american people directly, and the question then becomes, what are the republicans hiding? why won't they let hunter biden testify under oath, directly to the american people? >> let me follow up. if he doesn't show your republican colleagues have threatened to hold him in contempt of congress. what would your reaction to that be? would that be an appropriate measure? >> well, it's almost laughable that you have the chairman of the judiciary committee threatening to hold someone who is willing to testify in contempt when he himself blanketly defied a congressional subpoena and refused to testify in any way, shape, or form. as congressman mass cowitz said, the hip poc cri knows no end with this republican party. i dare chairman jordan try to bring a witness willing to testify publicly under oath under contempt of congress >> all right. democratic members of the house oversight committee, congressman dan goldman and jared moskowitz, thank you very much. we'll be watching today. and mike, it's really -- this is just a -- such an embarrassing situation for this republican congress. they're the gang that can't shoot straight. they have no evidence of misdeeds. you even have the wall street journal and other saying it's all smoke. smoke and mirrors. you have no transparency. you have no transparency in that the rules committee refused to even put in their language yesterday that they were going to have a transparent impeachment operation. no transparency with hunter biden. i understand why, because they're afraid they're going to be made fools of yet again. congress will be made a fool of yet again. and no star witnesses. remember, their star witness before for hunter biden and for this, quote, biden crime family, it was an international fugitive on the run. a guy that illegally smuggled iranian oil to communist chinese, illegally shipped weapons. i mean this is -- this is who -- this is -- this is -- this is who they're depending on. it's one embarrassment after another, and it has been for comber for months now. they got nothing, and yet, they just keep going. they just keep banging their head against the wall. >> yeah. a couple things, joe. a key witness you referenced, still in the wind. still can't be found. one of their key witnesses. the second aspect of this is, what evidence they have, they claim that we just heard the speaker claim that there's a mountain of evidence, three committees have studied this case and there's a mountain of evidence as he said, and you wonder, are they hiding this supposed evidence from the democrats on that committee because the democrats claim to see no evidence? and the most obvious and potentially the most lethal element of all of this is, we seem to be at a pivot point in history that very few members of the house republicans recognize, and it is this, we are trying to save a democracy in ukraine, we are trying to prevent ukraine from being overrun by russia. we are involved in the middle east in a war in gaza, israel versus hamas, and yet, what takes precedence over all of this, among the republican majority in the house of representatives? impeaching the president of the united states on no evidence and trying to get the president of the united states just so angry at what they're doing that they hope that he will make some gaffe. they hope something will happen to the president of the united states because they are torturing his son in public. >> well, i mean -- >> surviving son. >> more of the same. i mean, this is again the same republican party, this is the same donald trump, and they are doing donald trump's bidding here. this is the same donald trump that actually had ukrainian aid, military aid, defensive aid, that congress passed, and he refused to give it to the ukrainians until they gave him dirt on his political opponents on hunter biden and joe biden. it's outrageous. you look at what they're doing now, telling israel to go to hell, we're not going to give you aid, and they're actually -- they're telling ukrainians go to hell. as a guest said earlier today, the reason why russian television is praising the republicans in congress. >> they're very grateful. >> for doing vladimir putin's bidding. by the way, this is something that republicans are saying. this is something that chairman mccaul has been saying, that as they continue to stand in the way of defensive aid for ukraine, all they're doing is they're helping our enemies. they're helping putin. they're helping president xi. they're helping kim jong-un. and it's just -- it's really bad for the united states' reputation globally. these republicans, they don't give a dam. >> it was something president biden chided the republicans for, standing right next to the ukrainian president yesterday, saying you know, you're rooting for the wrong team. >> yeah. >> ukrainian president zelenskyy, of course, was back in washington yesterday, making that urgent plea for more u.s. aid for his country's defense against russia. for more,less a bring in nbc news white house correspondent peter alexander. peter? >> hey, joe and mika, good morning to both you have. president biden has repeatedly said that u.s. will support ukraine for as long as it takes, but there was a notable shift in the president's language during his visit with president zelenskyy yesterday, now saying that u.s. will provide help to ukraine, quote, as long as we can. perhaps a subtle nod to the realities in washington that republicans are still unwilling to approve $60 billion in new ukrainian aid, until the white house agrees to stiffer new border policies. standing side by side with ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy, president biden's warning that russia is reveling in american political divisions that are stalling critical new aid to ukraine. >> putin is banking on the united states failing to deliver for ukraine. we must, we must, we must prove him wrong. >> reporter: zelenskyy thanking the u.s. for its support, while pleading that american aid keeps flowing uninterrupted. >> we've shown that our courage and partnership are stronger than any russian hostility. >> reporter: but there are no indications that zelenskyy's lobbying effort broke the stalemate in congress. republicans are refusing to back any additional aid to ukraine until the white house first agrees to tougher immigration policies at the u.s.-mexico border. >> ou first condition on any spending package is about our own national security first. the border is an absolute catastrophe. >> reporter: for zelenskyy, what a difference a year ago. then welcomed with standing ovations before a joint session of congress. >> president zelenskyy, what are the stakes today? >> reporter: on tuesday, only meeting with lawmakers behind closed doors. and heading into the winter months there are rough days ahead with the ukrainian counteroffensive largely stalled. still, newly declassified intelligence provided to nbc news shows the russian military has suffered dramatic casualties on the battlefield since its invasion began nearly two years ago. about 315,000 russian troops have been killed or wounded. fighting for his country's future, zelenskyy is taking aim at some republicans who have been calling on ukraine to cede some territory to russia in exchange for the war. >> translator: that's insane to be honest. i have a question to this, if they are ready to give up their children to terrorists? i think no. >> reporter: president biden is clearly motivated to try to get a deal done again, saying he's open to compromise on what he acknowledges is a broken immigration system. i was speaking to a white house official this morning who said the white house was encouraged bay meeting of border negotiators yesterday, but, of course, as you both know so well for decades this has been one of the most complicated and contentious issues in america, so don't expect any resolution any time soon. the senate's top republican mitch mcconnell saying as much. it would be, quote, practically impossible for congress to resolve this standoff before the holidays. that likely pushes the fate of ukraine aid and border security into the new year. joe and mika. >> all right. nbc's peter alexander, thank you very much for that report. >> i think what the question is now is whether the republicans are going to want to take yes for an answer? because biden is going to -- the biden administration is going to meet them halfway, more than halfway, on this immigration deal that they're working through, but there's some people in the republican party that actually are saying, we're not going to agree to anything. >> really, they don't mean it? >> well, what they mean is, we would much rather israel collapse and would much rather vladimir putin take over kyiv than actually getting what we ask for on border security. so it's kind of strange. you wonder why they hate israel so much and they love vladimir putin so much, that even when joe biden meets them halfway, they're like, you know what, we're going to just let him twist in the wind and let israelis twist in the wind. the people of israel who endured just a horrific attack on october 7th, hell with them, same with the ukrainians. the republicans saying we're going to help vladimir putin, in any way we can. even if joe biden gives us what we ask for on the border, we still, as republicans, would rather help out vladimir putin than help out hamas. that's the message that the world is going to be getting from this republican congress. >> as you pointed out earlier, it's not americans who are going to fight the russians. it's the ukrainian people and they have been fighting and dying and losing their children for the safety of the world, for global safety. >> and the impact has been extraordinary. >> it has. >> as the next story shows. the newly declassified intelligence that peter mentioned in his report, showing that russia has suffered devastating numbe o casualties in thewar. prior to russia's invasion in february of 2022, it had roughly 360,000 ground force troops. nearly 22 months later, 315,000 of those troops have been killed and wounded. russia has also apparently lost a hugemot of hardware in its military campaign. it began with 3500 tanks. 2200 of which have been deroyed. one third of its armored vehicles have also been knocked out of action. joining us now former cia officer mark polymeropoulos, a national security and intelligence analyst and former fbi special agent clint watts, security analyst for nbc news and for msnbc. >> let's just talk about the scale of the losses, clint, 360,000 troops at the beginning for the russns they've lost 315,000 of those 360,000 -- >> taken out of action. >> they've lost, killed or wounded, lost 315 a -- 315,000 out of those, same with the tanks, 3500 tanks, they've lost 2200, having to salvage tanks from as mh as 50 years ago to get them on the battlefield. talk about the massive impact this has on the russian military today and in the long run? >> that's right. i think the longer run is definitely something that isn't discussed about enough. imagine if russia had another adversary right now that wanted to attack. they would be very vulnerable from some sort of military attack anywhere else. just looking at the troops in the ranks, they're still taking on massive casualties. part of the story is talking about the russians pushing on the battlefield to exhibit some sort of offense to influence u.s. and european politics, not to gain ground. they will probably take a significant number of casualties in the coming weeks. add to that their officer corps has been decimated. if they're going to have an effective military over time, you have to be able to keep some people in your ranks. even veterans from the battlefield. they're expiring. when you add all of this together along with the equipment losses, you're looking at a russian military that will probably never recover, at least in this generation where it was before the start of the invasion of ukraine. >> as you're talking we're looking at video on the other side of while president zelenskyy has been here in the united states and washington meeting with the president and leaders, russia attacked kyiv, goes deep into the country and attacks the capital. that's what pictures are here. two-parter, if numbers are close to true, they're staggering. who is fighting for russia? who is putin having to call up and send to the front lines? and if the military is that hobbled, it raises the question of why they continue to fight, at least to a stalemate and why all the power projected from ukraine and europe and the united states isn't more decisive in this war? >> willie, right now in ukraine, you're going to see two things, missile strikes and cyberattacks. that's really the center of gravity for ukraine. but bigger picture, the center of gravity for all the fight for putin is what happens in europe and the united states, not just right now, but in 2024 and 2025? a way to think of it is, if ukraine can't win in 2023, putin thinks he will win in 2025, the reason being the fight is active measures. win through the force of politics, rather than politics of force. can he get inside these countries and dismantle the opposition and break the support for kyiv. you're seeing it play out through the united states, through the winter, energy crises start to hit, see it play throughout europe where a lot of information operations are going, and part of that offensive that you see russia doing now where they're churning up troops that's to win support at home. we are winning. the west is breaking. that's a story they tell at home and tell in ukin definitely a story they want to tell in the west. >> mark, in ukraine, the numbers are staggering. the losses of the russian army, but you've been in theater of war with the cia. could you talk about what happens when the head of the military, the officer corps, is diminished or decapitated in such numbers? happens to that unit? >> sure. the leadership falls apart. it's pretty simple. i think that, you know, the ukrainian strategy helped by the united states, has been wildly successful and so when, you know, the leadership, the officer corps in the russian military is, you know, either killed or wounded and these numbers are stratospheric, it's going to have an effect on the battlefield. we have to remember something with this conflict, and what has struck me is that this is probably one of the most successful assistance programs in the history of the united states government. for 5% of our defense budget, we have managed to kill or wound 300,000 russian soldiers. that's extraordinary. we've propped up europe. we have helped the u.s. economy with the defense industry, and there's not a single u.s. soldier who has been scratched. no u.s. boots on the ground. everything you hear on this, everything you see, is something of an extraordinary success, and u.s. political dysfunction is, you know, has the possibility of kind of flushing it all down the toilet. that's something to worry about. >> mark, let's shift to israel now. you viewed yesterday the video footage of the october 7th attacks. i've seen some of it as well, that of course has -- is the reason for all that has followed and we should not lose sight of that. also weigh in on what you heard yesterday from both prime minister netanyahu, sort of rejecting out of hand u.s. plans for what will happen in gaza when the war comes to an end, and then president biden saying out loud what he's been saying privately for some time, and being very critical of how israel is conducting this war? >> so jonathan, i think we have to kind of put the u.s.-israel dynamic in two bins. one is kind of in the short term, where the u.s. has really pressed israel to open humanitarian corridors and they're doing that and going to open another one in southern gaza, and take more care tactically. this has to do with the offensive. i think we're okay there. long term there is a divide between the vision of the united states government and president biden of a two-state solution and prime minister netanyahu, who has campaigned, his existence, is opposed to that. that's something that down the line is going to be a problem, particularly when the arab states are saying they're not going to rebuild unless there is a promise of a two-state solution. you mentioned something, you know, earlier that i went to the israeli embassy yesterday and viewed the 46-minute video which showed kind of barbarity and debrevity on a scale, i've been in war zones, i was shocked. this is images, i'm allowed to talk about it, images of soldiers being beheaded, victims bludgeoned to death, women with clear signs of sexual abuse, bodies stacked everywhere, like the holocaust. i walked away from that with a distinct feeling, an israeli official reinforced this, important for listeners to understand, whatever happens the notion hamas cannot exist next door as an entity. when we understand the partners or the parties involved in this conflict, you have to take that into account. the ideas of cease-fires or cessation of hostilities is not on the table for the israelis. we have an issue down the line with israeli in terms of a two-state solution, but in terms of, you know, dismantling, degrading hamas so it's not a threat, i think the u.s. and israel are on the same page and you see that video and it is profoundly disturbing. >> marc polymeropoulos, thank you so much for sharing that with us and joining us this morning. clint watts as well. thank you, both. coming up on "morning joe," we'll be joined by cnbc's andrew ross sorkin ahead of today's expected fed decision on interest rates and before we go to break a look at what's making headlines across the country. the colombian reports over the past decade, health insurance premiums for washington workers covered through their employers rose 49% while the cost of individual plans have more than doubled. a new report cites mergers and acquisitions in the health care industry as a key contributor to the rise. "the sante fe new mexican" highlights a law that elevates some shoplifting charges to felonies. it remains to be seen if the harsher penalties will deter retail crime. "the bennington banner" reports on how vermont sports fans will be able to bet online starting in january when mobile sports betting kicks off. the move is expected to bring $7 million in revenue to the state during the first full year. "morning joe" will be right back. ght back ♪ if there's pain when you try to poo ♪ ♪ and going sometimes feels like you ♪ ♪ pushed through a pineapple or two ♪ ♪ colace is the brand you need ♪ ♪ to soften stools, we're all agreed ♪ ♪ #2 should be easy to do ♪ trust colace to soften stools with no stimulants for comfortable relief. nexium 24hr prevents heartburn acid for twice as long as pepcid. get all-day and all-night heartburn acid prevention with just one pill a day. choose acid prevention. choose nexium. this afternoon the federal reserve is going to conclude its final meeting of the year where it's expected to hold interest rates steady. jerome powell will hold a press conference and going to be scrutinized for clues about when and why the central bank might shift its policy stance next year. let's bring in co-anchor of cnbc's "squawk box" andrew ross sorkin. what are they expecting to hear, investors on wall street? what are they expecting to hear from the fed chairman today? >> this is going to be a key reading exercise this afternoon and interesting to see how blunt jay powell is about what's going on and what he's thinking about when it comes to, perhaps, either raising or likely lowering interest rates in 2024? the conventional wisdom, the way the investor community is looking at 2024, they're thinking that maybe it's a soft landing or recession, but either way he will be forced to lower interest rates, not increase or maintain them, and so does jay powell acknowledge that? does he say this is the plan? if that's the case, there's a sense maybe the market would skyrocket on that news because equities, meaning stocks, typically move higher if interest rates come down. cost of capital and getting a loan would otherwise go down. that's the push-pull of all of this. at the same time from an inflationary perspective f he says that's the plan and the stock market goes up, that unto itself is inflationary. it's a unique, weird good news is good news, bad news is good news, and how much can you tell the public about what you're going to do. that's where the tea leaf reading will come in. >> always strange, good news is bad news, and bad news is good news. maybe in this case powell says he's not going to raise interest rates and leave everybody else to get into the tea reading next year. one of the pressures that's pulled back on inflation has been gas prices. they keep going down. talk about the impact of that on the decision? >> it's an unbelievable situation. i don't want to say unbreevl, but a good situation for most americans. you're looking at the average price of gasoline about $3.12, some places across the country you can get gasoline at $2.75 a gallon, and you will remember we were living in some parts of the country over $4 and some cases over $5 per gallon. this is both an issue that relates to inflation, but also relates to the election and the politics of what's happening in the country. we talked about it a little bit yesterday with jen psaki on the show, does the president -- oftentimes the president gets blamed when you see gas prices and other prices go up, do you get credit on the way down as well? how does that get communicated and people feel about that? for right now, people should feel, dare i say, pretty great about just how far down those energy prices have gone. of course there's still other parts of the committee we're seeing pressure still on prices. the energy piece that flows through everything. >> yeah. everything down and again compared to so many economies across the world, one more example of how americans have it so much better than most of our allies and people across -- >> we do -- >> yeah, across the globe. tesla recall, what's going on there? >> so this is -- this is fascinating insofar as there's a massive recall, literally every vehicle that tesla has produced, my understanding, will be, quote, unquote, recalled. it's not a traditional recall, meaning if you own a tesla, if you're a tesla owner listening to us talk about this right now and you don't have to get your car serviced or checked out, what's going to happen is, it's going to be the equivalent of a virtual recall. it's a software recall around the autopilot feature that's going to effectively come in over the air, if you will, so tesla is going to be recalling these vehicles. they can fix them over the internet. it's all about trying to make the autopilot feature more responsive, passengers more responsive. so instead of just letting the car do its thing, it's going to be more restrictive and more lights and others things trying to keep you at more attention, which is a good thing. >> that is always a good thing. cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> always appreciate it. willie? >> a house cyber security subcommittee hearing yesterday convened experts from the private sector to discuss artificial intelligence. the chief trust officer of the cyber security firm sentinel 1 alex stamos warned the committee that ai could be used to generate malware that could wreak havoc in the public and private sector and joins me now live on set. good to see you, this morning. let's talk about the problem and then maybe some solutions. so much conversation about ai, especially this year. it's gone into the mainstream. >> yeah. >> for better and worse. you're highlighting some of the dangers of it here. can you give us an example of a problem that ai might present to a company or to infrastructure or the other things that keep you up at night? >> yeah. so yesterday at this hearing we talked about both the positive impacts of ai on cyber security, but also the risks that the entire panel foresaw over the next several years. one of the big challenges for small, medium, large enterprises right now is that there are these criminal groups who have the same level of skill that we used to only see from state actors, people who work for intelligence agencies, people who work for militaries, four or five years ago, that's the level of quality you see out of hackers who are just doing it to make money. these groups, these cyber security extortion groups, are earning something like $2 billion of money being transferred from american businesses. with that money they plow it back in like any company into building their own capabilities. one of the things people are worried about, will ai make them that much more effective? a lot of what they do right now is manual and humans, so they do just like a company, they have to recruit and train people. if you end up in a situation where they can build systems that scan companies, find vulnerabilities, break in and do almost all the work by itself the number of victims they can hit at any one time will go up significantly. >> they take the company hostage in a manner of speaking. >> that's right. >> we'll destroy your company if you don't give us x dollars. what's an example of that? >> one of the biggest ones this year the mgm grand hack where a group started what sounds like with a manual process, a human being called somebody up and tricked them into re-setting the passwords saying they're an employee, and once they could get in they could go hands on keyboards and break everything and held mgm ransom, shutting down their servers, you couldn't check into the bellagio, couldn't schedule your vacation, their operations were not working. huge cost to mgm. that made the news. but at the same time that was happening dozens of other companies were getting hit by that same group and their affiliates. >> are they paying -- these companies are paying out the ransom to make it go away? >> a decent number pay. this has become a really difficult ethical choice -- >> sorry to interrupt you. we have hunter biden here walking in. he's going to -- he's joined at a news conference shortly here. of course he's been called by the republican-led house committee to testify. he said he will do so in an open forum, not in a closed forum, where they can manipulate what he says in his words. we will keep a close -- close eye on this. sorry for the interruption. want to bring our viewers up to speed as hunter biden arrives on capitol hill. so let's talk about solutions. >> yeah. >> we were talking about the problem and how it works. it's important to understand. from your end you and your partner chris krebs do for a living, how do you protect companies from this stuff? >> so the only way you can protect against actors of this quality is also to use ai. >> sorry to interrupt you again. let's listen to hunter biden. >> chairman comer and the house oversight committee may have for me. ale here today to make sure that the house committee's illegitimate investigations of my family do not proceed on distortions, manipulated evidence, and lies. and i'm here today to acknowledge that i have made mistakes in my life and wasted opportunities and privileges i was afforded. for that, i am responsible. for that, i am accountable. for that, i am making amends. i'm also here today to correct how the maga right has portrayed me for their political purposes. i am first and foremost a son, a father, a brother, and a husband from a loving and supportive family. i am proud to have earned degrees from georgetown university and yale law school. i am proud of my legal career and business career. i am proud of my time serving on a dozen different boards of directors. i am proud of my efforts to forge global business relationships. for six years, maga republicans, including members of the house committees who are in a closed-door session right now, have impugned my character, invaded my privacy, attacked my wife, my children, my family, and my friends. they have ridiculed my struggle with addiction. they belittled my recovery. they have tried to dehumanize me, all to embarrass and damage my father, who has devoted his entire public life to service. for six years, i have been the target of the unrelenting trump attack machine shouting "where's hunter?" here's my answer, i am here. let me state as clearly as i can, my father was not financially involved in my business, not as a practicing lawyer, not as a board member of burisma, not in my partnership with the chinese private businessman, not in my investments at home nor abroad, and certainly not as an artist. during my battle with addiction, my parents were there for me. they literally saved my life. they helped me in ways i will never be able to repay, and, of course, they would never expect me to. in the depths of my addiction, i was extremely irresponsible with my finances, but to suggest is that grounds for an impeachment inquiry is beyond the absurd. it's shameless. there's no evidence to support the allegations that my father was financially involved in my business because it did not happen. james comer, jim jordan, jason smith, and their colleagues, have distorted the facts by cherry-picking lines from a bank statement, manipulating texts i sent, editing the testimony of my friends and former business partners and misstating personal information that was stolen from me. there is no fairness or decency in what these republicans are doing. they have lied over and over about every aspect of my personal and professional life. so much so, that their lies have become the false facts believed by too many people. no matter how many times it is debunked they continue to insist that my father's support of ukraine against russia is the result of a nonexistent bribe. they displayed naked photos of me during an oversight hearing. and they have taken the light of my dad's love, the light of my dad's love for me, and presented it as darkness. they have no shame. these same committee chairmen have engaged in unprecedented political interference in what would have already been a five-year investigation of me. yet, here i am, mr. chairman, taking up your offer, when you said, we can bring these people in for depositions or committee hearings, which ever they choose. while i've chosen, i am here to testify at a public hearing today to answer any of the committee's legitimate questions. republicans do not want an open process where americans can see their tactics, expose their baseless inquiry, or hear what i have to say. what are they afraid of? i'm here. i'm ready. >> hunter -- >> why not testify, sir? why not testify now? >> why did you -- >> that was hunter biden, and extraordinary -- >> wow. >> statement. saying to james comer and maga republicans, i am here, i am ready. striking out against the shameless attacks, against my father who is not involved in my burisma dealings, not involved with chinese businessmen, not involved in my art. called out james comer, jim jordan, jason smith, and other maga republicans for distortions of the facts. then he said they have lied over and over. we talked about the distortion and lies, said he had made mistakes, but that he had recognized those mistakes and was doing his best to correct those mistakes as a son, a father and a brother. someone who, yeah, he got good -- good jobs. he said he graduated from georgetown, undergrad, yale law school, and yet, maga republicans have impugned my character, attacked my wife, attacked my children, attacked my family, and one of the toughest lines, they tried to dehumanize me to hurt my father politically. they have taken the light of his love for me and done their best to turn it into darkness. they have no shame. really tough words. >> yeah. >> from hunter biden. >> and giving -- >> legitimate. on a five-year investigation where again, they have sunk to such low, low depths and still haven't gotten anything on him. >> making sure everybody can see, he's standing there right outside the capitol, ready to answer any questions. he's not going to be taken advantage of or lied about anymore, ask the questions, just ask them in a public venue. >> i don't understand, willie, why are they afraid of transparency? we saw it yesterday in the rules committee where house republicans refused to agree to a transparent impeachment process. now james comer refuses to the transparency that he promised, the offer he promised to hunter biden, come testify publicly and we'll take you. hunter biden said okay. he's there. >> now they don't want it. they don't want that transparency. >> this is a fascinating dynamic. even as hunter biden was speaking, you had members of the oversight committee, i'm looking at a comment from congresswoman nancy mace, saying i'm in the oversight committee room, we're waiting. if hunter biden doesn't show up, hold him in contempt. then echoing what he said, she tweeted, what is hunter biden so afraid of? he's afraid of going into that room in closed-door meeting and letting the committee who has an agenda in front of it, misinterpret perhaps, dictate what he said in there. let's do it in the open for the world to see. i'm standing here. let's do it. capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles was there at the briefing. what did you take out of that? >> well, willie, i think the most important thing that came out of these remarks from hunter biden is that he clearly stated in a public forum really for the first time that his father was not in any way, shape, or form connected to any of his professional life. his legal career, his foreign business dealings, even his art career which there's been accusations from republicans that his entire art career was just a setup as a way for biden campaign donors to support him in that way, shape, or form. he did say that. he said it emphatically. but, i do have to say, one of the things that republicans are going to do to counter him stating that on the record is that he's not doing it under oath, in a setting, in front of members of congress that have serious questions for him and under subpoena. so there's really no chance that this press conference is going to help him in terms of his efforts to avoid a contempt of congress charge. you know, just to kind of explain to you the way that these help him is in terms of h efforts to avoid a contempt of congress charge, and just to kind of explain to you the way these congressional operations work, it is pretty typical for congressional investigators to call witnesses before them first in a closed-door deposition, in a setting where there are not cameras, where there are not an opportunity for political grand standing, where they can ask very specific questions on very specific topics. often these depositions are very lengthy and often very dry, and then it is those depositions that then end up setting up the public hearings. that's exactly the way the january 6th select committee conducted business when they did their investigation into the events around the capitol insurrection. so that is not out of the ordinary. but to the point that hunter biden made here just a few minutes ago, the chairman of the committee, the oversight committee, james comer has said on more than one occasion he wanted hunter biden in front of them. he was willing to do that behind closed doors or to do it in a public setting and he reversed course once they issued that subpoena. now, the question that will linger based on the way that hunter biden has responded to the subpoena today is how congress will react. now, they set the terms of the subpoena. hunter biden and his lawyers don't get the opportunity to set the terms of the subpoena. that's congress's power, and the terms of their subpoena clearly stated that they wanted him to appear in a closed door deposition. so it is very likely that the next step in this process will be congress holding him in contempt, and that would mean if it -- and that's something that would have to be voted on by the entire house of representatives, if it passes the entire house of representatives, it would then land in the lap of merrick garland, the attorney general to decide whether or not to prosecute that case. does it end up going to the special counsel, david weiss, that's also a possibility. that would be another legal headache for hunter biden on top of the mounting legal woes he's already facing with these multiple indictments, the tax charges in california, and of course the gun charges he's facing in delaware. this is going to make his situation that much more complicated, and what we saw here today was really -- this was a public relations effort here to try and counter these republican claims that they've been making very much in a vacuum without much of an answer by hunter biden. this was his opportunity to state publicly for the record how he felt about this -- the way that this was -- this process was playing itself out, but to be clear, it's not going to change the potential legal steps that could happen after this or the way that house republicans are going to respond to the way he is responding to their subpoena here today. >> certainly also part of a more aggressive pr tactics taken by hunter biden and his lawyer there, abby lowell. we had him on the show earlier this week. we should reiterate there has been no evidence at all presented by republicans that president biden had anything to do with his son's business dealings. but that's not, of course, limiting the personal toll this is taking on the president or limiting what the republicans are trying to do with their investigation. give us an update as to where else this was going. a subpoena was also issued to the president's brother. where else are they trying to go with this particular probe? >> it's a great question, jonathan, and the first thing we should point out is that in addition to everything that's happening with hunter biden today, there's a significant step that's about to be taken by house republicans in terms of the overall impeachment inquiry. they are set to formalize the impeachment inquiry, which was already launched under the former house speaker kevin mccarthy without a vote at the house. they intended to formalize that today, and it does appear that there are enough republican votes to make that step happen. now, the reason that that is significant is part of the argument that abby lowell, hunter biden's attorney has made as it relates to this subpoena is that the subpoena is not legitimate because it had yet to be formalized for the entire house. they're going to do that this afternoon, and part of what they're also going to do is pass a are separate resolution that grandfathers in the work of the impeachment inquiry, which would include the subpoena that they issued of hunter biden underneath the banner of this new impeachment inquiry, and so i don't think there's any doubt that the indictment that was leveled against hunter biden last week, all the salacious charges that are associated with it does give many of these moderate republicans that are in biden-held districts a degree of cover to say, well, i'm not ready to vote on articles of impeachment, which is a whole, you know, additional step, but it does give them the ability to say, hey, look at all this evidence that's out there, we need to give and empower our congressional investigators the opportunity to look into this even more, and by formalizing that impeachment inquiry, that will give them just more ground to stand on. so that is a significant step. and then the other point i'll make about that, guys s that it also is a political risk for republicans, right? we know definitively there are not enough votes for articles of impeachment. if they're unable to deliver that evidence, of which they have not, there is not concrete evidence that joe biden was in any way, shape, or form involved in his son's business dealings or that he used his influence as a political leader to help his business dealers, if they're unable to deliver the goods and are unable to push articles of impeachment over the finish line, that could exonerate the president and that political move they're making could backfire. there's a lot on the line today after this impeachment vote inquiry. >> nbc capitol hill correspondent ryan nobles, thank you very much. >> it's a question i always ask, you look at people like mike lawler and others that are republicans, moderate republicans that won in democratic districts. you look at the redistricting in new york state, it's going to get a lot tougher for a lot of those members. going down this impeachment trail may be great for people that have 75%, 80% hardcore republicans in their district, but not for the 15 or so republicans that won in biden districts. >> what is congress doing today? they're having a hearing about hunter biden and they're moving to an impeachment inquiry of president biden, what are they not doing today? voting on ukraine or israel funding. they're not voting on ukraine or israel funding or putting something together passable on the border. i do think to your point, the votrs will have a say in this. as much as no president wants to go through even an impeachment inquiry, nonetheless, a full impeachment. they think these proceedings make it more likely that democrats could recapture the house next year. >> yeah, no doubt about it. they're not only do nothing republican, they're dangerous republicans to the house because, again, they're dawdling around here instead of taking care of ukraine funding, israel funding, and the border. >> political, personal wrecking balls like trump. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the live coverage in two minutes. in the u.s. we see millions of cyber threats each year. that rate is increasing as more and more businesses move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network. [speaker continues in the background] the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business. right now on "ana cabrera reports," breaking news on capitol hill, hunter biden speaking before cameras on capitol hill moments ago just as he's scheduled for a closed-door deposition before house republicans. what he said about the allegations against him and republicans' questions

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