Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning 20240702

israel. we continue to press and expect for additional americans to be released, as well. we will not stop working until every hostage is returned to their loved ones. >> president biden speaking yesterday about an american girl who was orphaned by hamas terrorists and taken hostage. you heard the president mention 13 hostages in the end. 17 were freed yesterday. we'll have a live report from tel-aviv on the people still being held by hamas, as well as the future of the humanitarian pause in gaza. also ahead, the latest developments in the shooting of three college students of palestinian decent in vermont. the the fbi is investigating the attack. we'll have the very latest. plus, a tale of two thanksgivings. president biden sharing a message of optimism and unity. >> very hopeful, saying we need to come together, which i think, obviously, anybody running for president would be saying the same thing, right? >> sure, absolutely. donald trump, on the other hand, former president, candidate, spent the holiday rage posting on his social media platform. >> that's interesting. >> yeah, super angry. >> he is an angry man. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is monday, november 27th. >> he forgets which decade he is in. thinks he is running against barack obama. >> hope you all had a nice thanksgiving. >> yeah. >> with it, the host of "way too early," politico bureau chief jonathan lemire. bbc news' katty kay. and associate editor of "the washington post," david ignatius is with us this morning. there's a lot to tell you about on this monday morning. today is set to be the final day without fighting inside gaza unless the humanitarian pause in the israel-hamas war is extended, allowing me hostages to be released. hamas has released 58 hostages since the truce took effect on friday. 14 israeli and 3 thai hostages were released yesterday, including the first american since the pause went into place. dual national abigail idan was released. she turned 4 on friday while being held hostage by hamas. her parents were killed in the hamas terrorist attack on october 7th. she emerges to safety as an orphan. under the initial deal, israel agreed to extend the pause one day for every additional ten hostages released by hamas. on sunday, hamas released a statement saying it wanted to extend the truce, but as of last night, there was no official agreement. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu said there is already an outline to an extension to the pause, and he would welcome it. while the prime minister of qatar told "the financial times" the truce could be extended. if hamas can use the pause to locate additional hostages being held by other armed groups. there's a lot to still work out here and also the question of, how much do they know about where all of the hostages are exactly? >> sadly, the hostages, whatever not being said, the hostages that are still alive. >> right. >> we're also talking about the hostages that hamas directly has control over right now. so many questions. david ignatius, though, i want to talk about the specifics of extending the truce, but i feel like we have to stop for one moment. we are obviously focused on the acts of terror against the israelis, the bombing in gaza. these are the things that, obviously, grip us, for good reason, day in and day out. but if you could, talk about the extraordinary work -- we haven't discussed many. i know this, so i know you know this far better than me. talk about the extraordinary work that's been going on behind the scenes by the biden administration. every time these hostage deals trip up, it's joe biden who gets on the phone. whether he is cajoling israel, cajoling qatar, whether he is working with our allies across the region, i mean, the last couple of weeks, you really don't see it in the newspapers, but it's been pretty extraordinary. the last couple of weeks have shown how, actually, 50 years of experience in foreign policy saves lives. >> well, i think you've said it just right, joe. the phrase "quiet diplomacy" is one we use often. we're actually seeing a perfect example of that in this process of hostage release negotiation. going back into the days after october 7th, the united states began working with qatar, the country where hamas political leadership lives, and with which israel has done business in secret for more than a decade through its intelligence service, to try to see whether a dialogue about release of house hostages was possible. i was in qatar just 2 1/2 weeks ago, the day before burns, the head of the cia and others came to doha to meet with the qatari prime minister to work out the basic outlines of the hostage deal we're now seeing implemented. every time there was an obstruction, a blockage that people were having trouble resolving, president biden did get involved. he got involved directly with the qatari leadership, with egypt, which at some point had a special entree with hamas to keep this going. he does deserve credit for using the special power that a president has to get us to these amazing scenes, where abigail and the two daughters who were written so movingly about, were being released. these are moments of joy. i would note, joe, built into this process that president biden helped to create was a notion that more hostages would be released and, you know, there would be a dynamic of more for more. the more hostages you find and can deliver, the longer the pause will be. but we're getting to near the end of that. there is a dilemma for hamas, which does have difficulty locating all of the remaining, say there are about 100 women and children, something like 50 have been released, so let's say 40, 45 still to do. some are being held by groups that are not easy for hamas to manipulate. finding those hostages, getting them released is going to be a difficult process over the next several days. my guess is that this process will be extended a little while longer, but then it'll hit a wall. that's going to create a real dilemma for everybody involved, israel, hamas, and the united states. >> joining us now from tel-aviv, nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez with the very latest. raf? >> reporter: mika, good morning. israelis are celebrating the release of that third group of hostages last night. as david is saying, they are wearily eyeing this fast-approaching deadline when the cease-fire is due to expire. 7:00 a.m. local time tomorrow, midnight tonight eastern. we are hearing hopeful signs, positive sounds from all sides about the possibility that this deal could be extended under those pre-agreed terms. one additional day of cease-fire in exchange for ten more hostages. as of right now, there is no deal confirmed. if nothing changes, the fighting due to begin again tomorrow. just going back to the hostages, 14 israelis released last night in exchange once again for 39 palestinian prisoners freed from israeli jails in jerusalem and in the occupied west bank. among those 14 israelis, that 4-year-old american israeli toddler, aabigail, and it's worh pausing on her story. she's a symbol of the hostage crisis in this country. her parents were murdered on the morning of october 7th by hamas terrorists in her kibbutz. she walked to a neighbor's house and were sheltered by that family until they were taken hostages, themselves, carried into gaza. she turned 4 years old as a hostage on friday. last night, after 52 days in captivity, she emerged, along with the neighbors she was kidnapped with. she is now at the schneider hospital here in the greater tel-aviv area. her family says she is doing well. fortunately, it sounds like all of the children who have come out of gaza so far are doing well. there is concern about one elderly woman. she's 84 years old. she came out last night, and she is said to be in serious medical condition. we don't know the exact details. because of her condition, the choreography last night was different from what we'd seen from the two nights prior. before, we saw these israeli hostages going from gaza into egypt, then crossing back into israel. last night, a different setup. they were handed over to the red cross in gaza city, just a few miles from where israeli forces are positioned, and they crossed directly over the israel-gaza border. that elderly woman taken by helicopter to a hospital in israel. we're starting, guys, to get first glimpse of the conditions these hostages endured over these last seven weeks. one little boy, ohad, 9 years old, telling his family that they weren't physically abused, they weren't tortured, but there were days when they went without food. they slept on hard, wooden benches. he said there were times he asked to go to the bathroom and it'd be hours before a hamas guard would take him. he has been reunited with his father, his mother, and his grandmother, taken hostage with him. they are now free. but his grandfather, 78, is still a hostage. we have seen that bittersweet note over and over again. some members of one family will be free, but others remain inside of gaza. if the fighting does resume again tomorrow, it will be devastating for the people inside gaza who have been able to get some humanitarian aid over the last couple of days. of course, it was likely we will see civilian casualties there rising once again. guys. >> all right. nbc's raf sanchez live from tel-aviv, thank you so much. katty kay, it is, again, one of the great concerns about continuing to strike these deals. first of all, the question of the number of hostages that are still arrive. also, 40 or so hostages being held by splinter groups that hamas doesn't really have that much control over. as hard as it is to believe, some of those splinter groups even more extreme than hamas and don't have diplomatic agreements with qatar or other countries that we can even negotiate with. >> yeah. there was some skepticism of the notion that emerged early on when hamas said it didn't have all the hostages, that that was possible given that hamas controls gaza. actually, we've come to the awareness over the last few days, as some of these hostages have come out, that that is the case. we know that on object 7th, some of the people who went across the border were hamas, but there were also other civilians from within gaza, from other groups, who went over and took hostages themselves. that is clearly a complication. for the israelis, what's important is getting these people out, obviously. every single hostage coming out brings with them snippets of intelligence, of how they were held, where they were held, the resources that hamas had to hold them. i think, you know, it's interesting we heard just there from the reporting that one of the hostages who came out said some days they didn't have food. that gives an indication of the pressures that the hostage takers are under. there are days when they can't necessarily feed them. it'd also lead you to think that getting rid of more of the hostages, handing them back to the israelis, is something hamas is interested in. the intelligence coming out with these hostages is very helpful for the idf to secure the release of some of the others, envelope if they're not all held by hamas. the pause we're seeing at the moment, the indications are that hamas is using that, we hope, to try to find and regroup the other hostages. >> jonathan lemire, let's talk about the biden administration and the balance they're having to strike. obviously, they're dealing with qatar and the leaders there. you have. >> blinken, sullivan, everybody fanning out across the middle east, trying to make this work. having success keeping this process moving forward. talk about the ongoing frustration that the biden administration has with netanyahu. the ongoing frustration about biden's hope, president biden's hope that we can see an extension of the cease-fire. the fighting does resume again, when fighting does resume again, the israelis take a much more targeted approach. talk about the biden administration, the fact that they still have fears there will be many more civilian casualties ahead if the israelis don't focus their attacks more carefully. >> yeah, first, as you mentioned, all these senior administration officials fanning out throughout the region, the president himself working the phones throughout the thanksgiving holiday weekend he spent in nantucket. when there was a snag on day two of the pause and it looked like the hostages wouldn't be exchanged that day, the president got on the phone, worked with qatar, worked with israel, got that situation resolved. he has been talking with prime minister netanyahu throughout the crisis and certainly expressed to netanyahu privately, and also said himself when we heard from him yesterday, that he wants this pause to be continued. he is hopeful of this pause being continued, thinks this is the best way to ensure the safety of the hostages. that the chances of the hostages getting out, and to your point, we don't know how many are still alive or exactly where they are, but the chances diminish if the fighting resumes in full force. while he is saying that, he's also made it very clear, the president himself has said, members of his administration said, they hope israel will have a targeted approach. it's been a mixed bag to this point. the u.s. has been leaning on israel to be selected, to be targeted throughout the conflict. there are moments when israel listened, and other moments when he did not. netanyahu himself signalled that he might be willing to extend the pause. he also in a video message released late last night said when the fighting resumes, whenever that might be, it'll be a full on war again. that does not sound like the selected, targeted approach the u.s. is advocating for, and that'll be a retention point going forward. >> right. makes it even more complicated. ahead in one minute, we'll go through the new developments in the shooting of three palestinian men, men of palestinian descent in vermont. tom winter joins us with the latest on that. plus, why chris christie says donald trump opened the door to the rise in hate across the country. we're back in 60 seconds. vraylar helped give it a lift. adding vraylar to an antidepressant... is clinically proven to help relieve overall depression symptoms... ...better than an antidepressant alone. and in vraylar clinical studies, most saw no substantial impact on weight. elderly dementia patients have increased risk of death or stroke. report unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, as these may be life-threatening, or uncontrolled muscle movements, which may be permanent. high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, weight gain, and high cholesterol may occur. movement dysfunction and restlessness are common side effects. stomach and sleep issues, dizziness, increased appetite, and fatigue are also common. side effects may not appear for several weeks. i didn't have to change my treatment. i just gave it a lift. ask about vraylar and learn how abbvie could help you save. welcome back. a suspect has been arrested in connection to saturday night's shooting of three college students of palestinian descent in burlington, vermont. a 48-year-old white male was detained yesterday after law enforcement found probable cause during a search warrant on his apartment to arrest the suspect. the alleged shooter will be arraigned in court later today. this comes as two of his victims are in stable condition while one sustained more serious injuries. the group of kids were in burlingto for thanksgiving break, having attended the same quaker school in the west bank. the friends were walking to a relative's home at the time of the attack, speaking arabic and wearing traditional palestinian scarves. police say the suspected shooter did not say a word before he fired at least four times, hitting all three men. the families are asking law enforcement to investigate the shooting as a hate crime. >> this is so horrific. these three young men actually went to schools across the northeast, and they met up for thanksgiving at the home of one of the friends. >> in burlington, vermont. >> burlington, vermont. then they went out. now, of course, we have been warned not to immediately jump to the conclusion that it is a hate crime because, of course, that's what happened in detroit with the woman who was killed, who was a synagogue leader right after the terror attacks. that ended up not being a hate crime. that said, the fact that these three, young men are from three different colleges, came together to celebrate thanksgiving, and were just walking down the street, two wearing traditional palestinian -- >> scarves. >> -- scarves makes it hard to assume it was anything but a hate crime. but, again, the fbi will be investigating that. to talk about that process, let's bring in nbc news investigations correspondent tom winter. tom, just an absolute tragedy in vermont. talk about what the fbi is going to be looking at. >> well, i think they're going to be looking at a host of things. how this all went down yesterday, according to the chief of police who emailed reporters directly at 12:33 this morning announcing the arrest, shortly after 3:30 p.m., atf agents in the area of where this shooting occurred encountered the individual arrested, whojas 48 of burlington, vermont, close to the shooting. they're canvassing the area approximately 3:30 yesterday afternoon. they encounter him and take him into custody. the u.s. attorney's office along with the local district attorney there get a search warrant of his residence before 10:00 p.m. the chief of the police says that based on that search, based on the information they developed in the course of the investigation, they developed enough probable cause to make an arrest. where was the search conducted? it was conducted in the apartment building directly across, apparently, from where the shooting occurred. that's where this individual lives. we know they at least live in -- he at least lives in the area. i think the question this morning at his arraignment, we know who, how, and the big question, to your point, joe and mika, i think is why. >> tom, can you tell us a little bit more about -- and i know it is early hours here -- but what investigators do know about the exchange of what actually happened in the moment before he opened fire? and if there is anything in the suspect's history that would suggest or lend credence to the idea it could be a targeted attack? >> yesterday afternoon, the shooting which occurred saturday night, 6:25 p.m., the individual walks up to them and just starts firing. there was nothing that was said ahead of time. as far as this individual's background, that's something we're digging through. i'm sure they're digging through, as well, on the law enforcement side, of course. we know the atf made the arrest. they're critical with the ballistic's information. to joe's point, they'll try to determine, along with the u.s. attorney's office, were there statements made subsequent to that? when he was in custody? what'd they find at his home or on his media devices? to joe's question, the fbi was helpful in this according to the chief of police. they were working with their analysis teams which, of course, can locate where an individual is if they have their cell phone on. they had the computer teams there, and perhaps they found something on his digital devices which could be helpful in determining motive. >> all right. nbc news investigations correspondent tom winter, thank you very much. let's go back to david ignatius and pull out to big picture in terms of the efforts to try to end this war. it seems like the smaller objectives along the way, whether it be small groups of hostages coming home, how to characterize going back into war mode, it seems almost like these objectives conflict with each other. >> mika, i have the same fear. this is a day when we're seeing these joyous images of young children being freed, reunited with their families, you know, were moved and grateful to everybody involved, incluing key people in the biden administration. israelis say they have not given up their fundamental goal here, which is to destroy hamas politically. when this period of hostage releases ends, and that is in a few days by anybody's calculation, they intend to go back to high-intensity conflict. that's the phrase that has been used with me. that sounds like what we were watching on our tv screens before the hostage process began. it was very painful for the world to watch that. it led to a lot of anger and outrage. i think israel is trying to think, how does it go back to war and accomplish its goal of destroying hamas without getting that same degree of international anger? it is going to be a very difficult problem for them. i think the u.s. will get involved in that. it's hard to predict now just exactly what proposals the u.s. will offer. that's the dilemma israel is facing. >> david, how clear is the israeli thinking on the next steps and what the repercussions of those steps will be? if they go back to full war, how clear are they on the pressure that that puts on neighboring middle eastern countries and how long the leaders of those countries can withstand that pressure? how clear are they on the response that would come from europe, even from the united states? i mean, are they having thoughtful, deep conversations about the medium and longer term? >> katty, the hope is that this period of humanitarian pause to allow hostage release has also been accompanied by significant new shipments of aid. we read about 200, 300 trucks that are carrying food, medical supplies, new shelter for people who have been forced to leave their homes. i think the israeli hope is that in this environment where there's better attempts to take care of civilians, that some of the pressure may be reduced. these may be more targeted operations. it's been a debate that's been ongoing within the israeli military now for weeks. should they move to a period where it is more standoff and use special forces teams to go in after particular targets when you find them? that'd be a less bloody, less troubling thing for the world to watch. i think the hard question will be, once you stop a war, starting it again is very difficult. that's the dilemma that faces israel in the coming days. >> right. >> we'll have to watch that carefully. >> all right. "the washington post"'s david ignatius, we thank you very much, as always, for your insights this morning. >> thank you, david. i'll tell you, mika, just looking this weekend at the papers, we're going tolater, bu york times" editorial lays out the way forward with the israel-palestinian peace process. there are people that are saying there is no peace process moving forward after these attacks. well, there has to be. we really don't -- we as americans don't have a choice if we're going to continue to be invested as much as we are in israel and in that region. and israel doesn't have a choice, as so many israelis understand. there has to be a way forward. it's hard to see right now, but "the new york times" editorial page, i don't always say that about "the new york times" editorial page, but it lays things out very well. i must say also, in this age of tiktok, where you just have idiot takes on middle east peace because somebody has seen it on tiktok or instagram, in the reels for 15 seconds, "the new york times" magazine this weekend lays out the history of the peace process, the failed peace process. >> it's vexed american presidents for decades. >> it has. >> there's not alignment now. >> right. >> that's the fundamental problem moving forward. >> but we have to have an understanding of it. whether you get it from somewhere else or you can -- there's a good primer this weekend, again, in "the new york times" magazine, also a lot of questions to be raised. everybody is going to disagree with parts of this editorial, but, again, if you have somebody that's coming up spewing bumper sticker mentality over a 2,000, 3,000 year old conflict, 2,000 year conflict, at least have them read this and discuss it. you can tell them about the parts you agree with, the parts you disagree with. people have to be more informed on this issue because i think one of the reasons why you have such hate and such division is because people don't want to make this issue anything more than something that you can fit on a bumper sticker. >> exactly. coming up on "morning joe," we'll talk more about this. we'll also be joined by a woman who had four family members who were held hostage by hamas freed over the weekend. we will hear about their emotional reunion just ahead on "morning joe." and out of the hospital. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto for heart failure. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ my parents escaped vietnam during the vietnam war. they started a small restaurant just before i was born, which is where i pretty much grew up. and i learned what it takes to build a business and raise a family. joe biden and kamala harris are investing in businesses like ours. now we're hiring - and we just opened a new location. it's actually wonderful to see president biden really focusing on small businesses instead of major corporations. it wasn't like that before. i'm joe biden and i approve this message. to finally lose 80 pounds and keep it off with golo is amazing. it wasn't like that before. i've been maintaining. the weight is gone and it's never coming back. with golo, i've not only kept off the weight but i'm happier, i'm healthier, and i have a new lease on life. golo is the only thing that will let you lose weight and keep it off. who loses 138 pounds in nine months? i did! golo's a lifestyle change and you make the change and it stays off. (soft music) i'm andrea, founder of a boutique handbag brand - andi - and this is why i switched to shopify. it's the challenges that we don't expect, like a site going down or the checkout wouldn't work. what's nice about shopify is when i'm with my family, when i'm taking time off, knowing that i have a site up and running and our business is moving forward because we have a platform that we can rely on. that is gold to us. start your free trial at shopify today. ominous shot of new york city at 34 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." >> it is hard for you to look outside of your penthouse condo. >> it is an old one, old and boring. >> flying back and forth on thanksgiving weekend. >> very tired, joe. >> people actually believe this when i say that. they'll come up, did mika go to the south of france yesterday? i say, well, no. anyway, malls, zombie halls as you pass by them, "the wall street journal" has a story about these malls that we used to always go to. i can't imagine how often you were in malls. >> my dad wouldn't let me go. >> you know, that's where people hung out. >> yeah. >> now, these things have turned -- >> spencer's gifts, remember that? >> -- into zombie malls. >> it's sort of cities' downtowns, what is going to happen seeing business anymore? probably turning into maybe housing. >> that's the interesting thing. financiers are holding onto these malls even while the towns are begging them to sell them. they're just not doing it but holding on to it for possible future investments. >> interesting. >> you have the zombie malls. katty, something interesting that i noticed this week as i was -- actually had time to go to restaurants because, you know, we go to sleep at, mika and i, about 5:30 every evening right before -- >> that's a late night. >> -- "wheel of fortune" comes on. i exaggerate just a little bit. but it is interesting, you know, retail, everybody is buying everything on amazon or buying online, so you're seeing retail stores, especially in places like new york, just, you know, going bust. i'm starting to notice restaurants in certain areas also having less people inside the restaurants because everybody is ordering in now. they're getting delivery service. i'm wondering if some restaurants are going to be going the way of some retail clothing stores, too. we're seeing our whole economy, and the zombie mall story talks about it, the economy is changing dramatically. >> this is one of those questions, joe, where i was glad that you spoke for a while because i was wondering in my own head, how am i going to get from zombie malls to a sensible answer on this? >> boom. >> okay. we have had the numbers on this, that over the course of the holiday spending weekend, the sales market, online, the numbers were super good, right? the cyber spending from all the sales has been great. we don't have the numbers for foot traffic in the shops so we don't know whether people were actually going to the shops. but this weekend, i was in virginia where we spent three, four days, try to every week, and three of the restaurants are up for sale because they can't get hourly labor. they can't get workers to work in the restaurants, so three of the restaurants will be up for sale, presumably shutting down. the kind of thing you're talking about. whether that's the same as people not going to restaurants and ordering takeout, or whether there is a labor shortage in the country, which there clearly is, another reason to look at the immigration question and what's happening at the border and come up with an agreement on that, it's not good. you have a very small town and three restaurants go under, that's a problem. >> jonathan lemire, people are going to look back, even in a few years, and go, wait a second, let's get this straight, small business owners, family restaurants, like, you know, main street restaurants, hardware stores, bookstores had to close down because they didn't have enough workers. at the same time, you have immigrants literally risking their lives to get here so they can work in america. really, again, there is a solution to be had. this is not a left/right issue. again, if you are a champion of small businesses, entrepreneurs, of family restaurants, of family small businesses on main streets that are being to shut down because they can't find enough workers, this seems to be an issue where congress should come together and get this fixed. >> seems like a layup, yet nothing is happening. there is no sign anything will. it's become too convenient of a political cudgel to rail against the system versus doing something to fix it. to your point and katty's, reasonable people on both sides of the aisle realize we need more immigrants for economic reasons and all the rest, yet this isn't happening. there's no sign it is going to happen anytime soon, as we're about to turn the calendar into an election year. the other part of this, we're grappling with the changes to everyone's life because of the covid pandemic, where people got more used to doing everything remotely. they got used to doing delivery. they got used to picking up their phone and pressing a button to have something sent to them, whether it was food or shopping that way. accelerating trends already in the works. now, we're that much further. this impact of the pandemic will be felt for years and years. people's patterns and behavior changed. >> the thing is -- >> the patterns have changed. >> the patterns have changed, but delivery service is so expensive. you order -- i ordered a half eaten pop tart this weekend, and it was $55, plus gratuities. it is so expenexpensive. i wonder when people will go, i can't afford $50 for a half eaten poptart. i'll get in my car, drive, and see other human beings while they eat at a family restaurant. >> that moment may come, but it seems people are prizing convenient and time. >> that's it. >> at least at this moment, people are making the choice, i'll pay a few extra bucks by being able to push the button on my phone, opposed to doing the human interaction you detailed. >> and it's not just ordering stuff. i know of a certain student who was actually in class online while in line for a sample sale. >> i'm sorry, what? >> think about that. katty gets it. >> okay. >> literally in a long line for a sample sale while doing class, got both done, first in line. >> makes me dizzy. >> it's not okay. >> must be a female to get both done. >> how was the poptart? >> multitasking. >> it is. >> wow. still ahead on "morning joe," the college football schedule on saturday was filled with rivalry games, including the heated iron bowl. >> still have a headache. >> you have traumatized my dog. >> your dog is traumatized. >> you screamed so loud. >> the screaming, yeah. we have to have paul finebaum on, as well as pablo torre, and we're going to talk about probably the most extraordinary ending to a college football game. >> epic. >> since doug flutie's immaculate inception. we'll be right back. sleep more deeply. and wake up rejuvenated. purple mattresses exclusive gel flex grid draws away heat relieves pressure and instantly adapts. sleep better. live purple. right now save up to $900 off mattress sets during purple's black friday sale. visit purple.com or a store near you today. 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>> oh, joe. >> an undefeated fsu if they beat louisville? an defeated fsu? who is not in there, texas? they going to bump texas? if alabama beats georgia, they will have beaten lsu, they will have beaten tennessee. i mean, there's no way you keep the s.e.c. out of these playoffs after the tcu debacle of last year. >> what i'll be doing as the committee is mulling over this in their dark, wood panelled room behind locked doors, is listen to paul finebaum's show. you know this, the exorcism this play represented for alabama in the most haunted rivalry in sports, the iron bowl, leading to now, i want to put the name of the play in public. isaiah mentioned it post game. this is the gravedigger. that's what this play was. there was no rush from auburn. they practice this play on fridays. they've never done it successfully to isaiah specifically, but they pulled it off. the gravedigging feels appropriate for an alabama team now back in the conversation. if alabama, with one loss, does not make it into the playoff riding these fumes, i just cannot wait for the callers. i cannot wait for the callers to paul's show. >> i mean, paul, first of all, you know, i made a mistake. i made a terrible mistake. i did something i've never done before on this show, and i've never said it. i just don't jinx myself. but after the lsu win, i said, "alabama is the best team in the country. they're the best team." milroe running the ball the way he was, the defense, the run attack, the passing attack, they were the best team in the country. then we went out against auburn and played what i thought was a miserable, miserable four quarters. so, yeah, first of all, what happened? then, if alabama beats georgia, what's the committee going to do? who are they going to keep out? you know they'll have an s.e.c. team in the top four. >> first of all, this was not a vintage auburn team. this was a team that the week before lost to new mexico state. >> yeah. >> by three touchdowns. >> horrible. >> 25 point underdog. what's going to happen here, and i think -- i don't know if pablo agrees, but the four best teams in the country are michigan, ohio state, alabama, georgia. the rest of them i would leave home, but that's not the way -- the committee doesn't think like that. they like to put in the tcus. there will be an uprising -- i shouldn't use that word on "morning joe," but there will be in the college football parlands. it'll be ugly because alabama will have beaten the number one team in the country. listen, michigan beat the number two team in the country, so that's fine. georgia, by the way, joe, probably still deserves to get in. they've only one 45 of the last 46 games. pablo, allow me one second here. >> please. >> if you'd cede me time. joe was not kidding a minute ago when he said he got nick saban hired. i was part of that. joe said, enough of the trash hires in alabama. he wrote an op-ed and came on our show. i've said it before, and it is worth repeating as saban is perhaps moving toward his seventh national championship as alabama. joe made it happen. the board of trustees paid attention because of joe's connection to the school, and it did happen. the night saban was hired, i was on joe's show, and we celebrated. we didn't realize what we were getting into, though, joe. >> we had no idea. i will say, the end of the first season, when saban was 6-6, paul -- >> you heard this. >> -- made me call. he said, "are you still sure?" i said, "i'm absolutely sure this guy is going to win." pablo, that sickens you. again, the tentacles of "morning joe." >> it is amazing what i wandered into, the seats of power. >> so, pablo, let's talk really quickly about the committee. >> yeah. >> i will say, when they picked tcu, and, listen, people were insulted. i know these are all kids. i would be so thrilled if any of my kids played on any college football team, if that's what they wanted to do. so i take nothing away from tcu. last year's tcu team. but compared to alabama, they were a high school football team. they just were. by the way, i will say this, too, just so i offend all of my -- >> please. >> great job. >> -- viewers across -- >> there are some parts of the country not yet insulted, so please proceed. >> let me insult everybody in the midwest. pablo, i don't know if paul will say this on tv, but i will. when i watch big ten teams playing that don't have c.j. stroud on there, i go, oh, my god, they're so slow. they can't get to the corners. they play in slow motion, i'm serious. they play in slow motion. you look at washington. you look at oregon. you're like, okay, those teams, i don't want to cross those teams. but you look at a big ten team, and you're like, oh, just seriously? i'm going in the other room and watching paint dry. so that being said -- >> that said. >> -- the committee skewed up with tcu badly and cost them ratings and credibility. it cost them money. are they going to make the same mistake this year and go, oh, fsu, a team that lost -- that almost lost to a horrible gators team, we're going to put you in without your star question, or are they trying to get the four best teams instead of tcu-ing us again? >> yeah, i want to point out that thank god "morning joe" did not count on the swing states that those big ten teams reside in for its electoral votes, right? remarkable trolling by you, the idea that still today -- >> it's not trolling. >> -- a cloud of dust is -- >> it's not trolling. >> joe, joe. >> it's not trolling. >> joe, i want you in the room with this committee, to your point, because this committee this year -- >> they're horrible. >> now, it is difficult, okay? the tcu example was infuriating for the s.e.c., for alabama, to be clear. >> for everybody. >> the ruls, it bore out the process wasn't the right one. i consider that a fair point. but right now, you actually have a hard decision. in these rooms, you have athletic directors, former players, used to have condoleezza rice literally as a member of this thing. they tried to do diplomacy in a way that embodies the breadth and geographic diversity of the sport, that, i agree, right now is concentrated in the marquee names that allow the s.e.c. exceptionalists to say, what the bleep are you guys wondering about? clearly, it's us and always has been us. >> exceptionalist, paul and pablo, seriously, all you have to do is look at the talent level. my son, jack, will constantly say, there's so and so, while we're watching, you know, nfl games, while we're watching "red zone" on sunday. i go, wait, he went to alabama. >> georgia defense is everywhere. >> literally can't keep up, paul, with the number of alabama players and georgia players and lsu players and tennessee players in the nfl. i can name you one big ten, like, first rounder from michigan, you know, and that's it. other than c.j. stroud, of course, the greatest quarterback of all time. >> yeah. we got through watching last night, jalen hurts pulled off that incredible comeback for philadelphia when the eagles beat the bills. he got beat out at alabama. he had to leave. that's how good the s.e.c. is. >> by another nfl quarterback, yes, tua, kpagtexactly right. >> wasn't going to mention that. >> small footnote to the saban enterprise, yes. >> speaking of which, pablo, what an ending to, again -- we're southerners, pablo. >> i noticed this. >> we talk nfl 1% of the time. but talk about the eagles and bills game. >> yeah. >> what an incredible game. >> i love talking about this game because amid all the superstars, s.e.c. alumni included, jake elliott is a guy who plays a position that people do not consider actually an athletic position. he plays kicker. this game comes down to this dude. of course, jalen hurts doing all this in overtime to win. the reason they got to overtime was because jake elliott drilled a 60 yard field goal in the rain, enabling the philadelphia eagles to be, i believe, the one team we can safely say this year, joe, is actually good. >> yes. >> the nfl is full of immediate mediocrity. even the chiefs. nobody is as good as we want them to be except for this team, because they seem to have players who, like the aforementioned milroe, step up when their life is on the line. we saw jalen hurts, another alabama grad, do that again. >> finally, one final question to both of you. taking a quote from a former political person who got hammered, where does russell wilson go for his apology? [ laughter ] >> "morning joe," i believe, is the answer at this point. if you have grievances to air, people to put a finger in those eyes, russell wilson has been better, better, joe, i agree, better than anybody thought, certainly through three weeks of this season. >> yeah. all right. pablo torre and paul finebaum, thank you, both, very much. >> paul, if you can come on again either friday, before all the championship games, or monday to wrap it up, we'd love to have you back. >> thank you, joe. can't wait. mika, thank you. >> pablo, we'll get you on, too. >> we love pablo. >> actually, when we come back, you will hear how i helped complete the deal -- >> you can shut up. >> -- for the railroad going coast to coast, boom. >> okay. >> i nailed the final stake. >> gentlemen, thank you. >> statues will be made about this. >> exactly. >> gentlemen, while you have doing what you do, we've been preparing for the top of the hour. it is 7:00 exactly on the east coast. today is set to be the final day without fighting inside gaza unss the humanitarian pause in the israel-hamas war is extended, allowing more hostages to be released. hamas has released 58 hostages since the truce took effect on friday. 14 israeli and 3 thai hostages were released yesterday, including the first american since the pause was into place. dual national abigail idan was released. she turned 4 years old on friday while being held by hamas. her parents were killed in the hamas terrorist attack on october 7th. there are incredible stories like abigail being freed. also a young girl, 9-year-old emily, she was in the wave before, her father thought she was dead for quite some time and now has his little girl back in his arms. many, many other stories. under the initial deal, israel agreed to extend the pause one day for every additional ten hostages released by hamas. on sunday, hamas released a statement saying it wanted to extend the truce, but as of last night, there was no official agreement. joining us now from doha, qatar, is nbc news chief international correspondent keir simmons with more. keir? >> reporter: mika, good morning. the qatari prime minister tells nbc news that there could be an extension of this truce if hamas is able to find 40 more hostages to release. as you mentioned, so far, the numbers are 39 israeli civilians, some joint civilians, like little abigail iidan who ws released yesterday to so much joy and celebration there in the u.s., there's that number of israelis and 117 palestinian prisoners have been released. the prospects for an extension of this truce are real, but, you know, mika, there are multiple moving parts here. also, a diplomat with knowledge of the talks said there are issues over the list of hostages and palestinian prisoners to be released today. i'm told those are similar issues to those we've seen on the first day and that they are slight issues, giving the impression they will be resolved. it's been a bumpy ride through the weekend, particularly on saturday where there was anger from hamas, saying that not enough aid, the kind of aid that had been agreed was getting to the north of gaza. it delayed the releases of hostages on saturday. they weren't released until midnight. we could be in for more extreme, tense hours ahead today here. then, of course, all of this -- i mean, ultimately, right now, we're in the eye of the storm, in the sense that we are in the middle of it and also that things are relatively quiet right now, apart from the noise about the diplomacy and the talks. we're looking ahead now. even if this truce is extended, the potential of more fighting and whether israel will try to get to the south of gaza, what it'll mean for the civilians there, many who already fled the north of gaza. the questions over exactly where this is all going and where it will end up remain. as president biden has said, he has said, we can't go back to october 6th. the questions still remain about what exactly that means. >> keir, good morning. it's jonathan. give us an update on the other side of it, if you will. the best we know about the prisoners israel released, sent back to gaza, what do we know about them? also, if there are updates, frankly, with this pause, bringing a brief stop to the fighting in gaza, allowing more aid in, what are these organizations finding when they're in there after, you know, the bombardment from israel in recent weeks? >> reporter: well, when organizations like the palestinian red crescent are in gaza, particularly in the north, of course, people will have seen the pictures, they're finding devastation. the israeli defense force suggesting that they are finding that there are more tunnels, for example, than they imagined. that gives the impression that they certainly think there's more work to do, even in the north of gaza. before we even talk about the south. just in terms of the deal, if you like, there are multiple other issues that we don't really know. for example, there's supposed to be a part of this deal that allows the international committee, the red cross, to go see the other hostages for proof of life and to see how they are in terms of their health. we don't know whether that has been fulfilled. we wait to see whether or not that has been fulfilled. aside from the question of whether more hostages are going to be released and, therefore, more days of truce. one of the impressions i think we're getting now is that it is chaotic, honestly. the hamas claim in the weeks past that they didn't have position, if you'd like, of all the hostages, it does seem to be some truth to that. again, just back to the point that we've heard from the qatari prime minister overnight, the question is whether or not hamas is actually going to be able to -- it has been able to find those other hostages and how many it's been able to find. remember, again, another point of this four-day truce was to be able to find those people. then you ask about the palestinian side. i mean, the 117 palestinian prisoners have been released, sent back to families. at the same time, there is reporting about many, many other palestinians being arrested by the israelis at the same time in the west bank, for example. this is fragile. it's beyond just the complete lack of trust on either side. there are moving parts all the time that are putting any kind of a deal at risk and threatening the trust. >> keir, so far, the war has not widened as much as people feared it might in the early days after october the 7th. what's your sense from the region of what might have if israelis -- what could happen if the israelis return to fighting after this four-day truce? >> reporter: it's a good question. where i'm standing now in the gulf, the gulf states, i think, are pretty desperate not to see this expand further, to say the least. i think the messaging from them, that there needs to be a cease-fire, and the qatar rqatal openly tell you, part of this pause is in the hope of building enough trust for a permanent cease-fire and some kind of a resolution. you know, they want that in part because of those worries about the idea of an expansion. of course, clearly, we all know so far, hezbollah has not acted on the kinds of threats it has made, beyond some skirmishes, honestly. it's not acted on the kinds of threats it has made to widen this war, but it is a crisis. even though we're in the eye of the storm, we're in the middle of the crisis. what happens if israel's idf pushes on into the south of gaza? i honestly don't think people -- anyone really knows. then i think there's one other conflict to just mark, and that is the international conflicts, the diplomatic conflict. you've got the european union's chief foreign diplomat in spain, openly criticizing israel. now, you can question how important he is in the scheme of things, but, certainly, just as an example, nevermind the international divisions, europe is increasingly divided with countries like spain and france and ireland pushing for permanent cease-fire. countries like germany and the uk more on the israeli side, if you'd like. >> all right. nbc's keir simmons, thank you so much for your reporting and analysis this morning. president biden spent the thanksgiving weekend on nantucket as is tradition for his family. there, he was working most of the time to keep the hamas hostage release deal in place. he and the first lady also called into nbc's broadcast of the macy's thanksgiving day parade with this message for the american people. >> this thanksgiving day, al, we have to come together. you know, we can have different political views, but we have one view. the one view is we are the greatest nation in the world. we should focus on that. we should focus on dealing with our problems and being together, and stop the rank. you know, we have to bring the nation together. we have to treat each other with a little bit of decency. >> man, that is so great. >> that's nice. >> bring america together. >> it's the day to talk about it, too, thanksgiving. >> it is. >> we gather. >> be grateful for the fact that we do live, and the president said it right there. >> show gratitude. >> we live in the greatest country in the world. >> yeah. >> i mean, i know, like, that sounds whatever, but we feel, i feel that way. >> yeah. >> president feels that way. >> inspired. >> most americans feel that way. that's why on thanksgiving, you know, i think most politicians are, like -- >> they take the moment to be -- >> you have to take the moment, right? >> yeah. >> today is thanksgiving, so this is a day we're going to put aside any anger, and that's how it's played. >> bringing people together and show gratitude. >> be thankful. that's really -- wait, what? >> so -- >> oh, i guess i- >> -- former president donald trump -- >> donald trump didn't do that, i'm hearing from truth social. >> -- had a message for the erican people. in the early hrs of thanksgiving. ah. >> oh, whoa. >> wow. >> he fired offhis lengthy soaledia post, blaing the president and all those involved in the new york civil fraud case against him, and wrote that the country had already, que, gone to hell. >> we, that's not really -- that's reallyot saying that we're the greatest country in the world, which most aricans think we are. >> oh, my gh. >> he thinks we've gone to hell, but he said that before. >> happy thanksgiving to all, including the racist and incompetent attorney general of w rk state, letitia " "peekaboo" james, who has let murder and violent crime flourish. >> weaponized. >>e is upset about -- >> allowed our country to go to hell. >> weaponized. rhinos. marxists, democrats. rhinos! >> happy thanksgiving, everybody. >> yeah. >> trump continued to rip biden on social media throughout the weekend while also mixing in attacks on "forbes," "the atlantic," and anyone who had endorsed his republican primary opponents. >> that's not thankful, is it? the thing is -- well, let's bring in people who elicited one of the rages by trump. >> shouldn't have done that. >> senior fellow pete -- >> it's amazing. >> people are usually enraged. you look at pete, and you're like, that's a guy that gets people, like, in the bar fights. >> just wait until you hear what he wrote. >> also, president of the national action network and host of msnbc's "politics nation," reverend al sharpton. and msnbc analyst, former senator, claire mccaskill. >> hey, claire. >> i don't want pete and i to start fighting off the bat, because he obviously provokes people. claire, let's just say it, talk about how sick to say that america is a rotten nation before you're president of the united states, american carnage, and then you become president of the united states, and america has four of the most tumultuous years, and the second he leaves and is blamed by the american people, he goes back to saying that america sucks again. how grotesque? >> the common denominator. >> how grotesque, that donald trump only thinks america is great when donald trump is president. >> yeah, because he doesn't care about america nearly as much as he cares about himself. >> i'm sorry, claire, you could have stopped after america, could have just put a period there. there is no evidence -- >> none. >> -- over the last eight years that i've ever seen that shows that donald trump cares a damn about america. he just doesn't. he cares about himself. >> he da cares about himself. he has no guiding philosophy or ideology. he has no policies he really believes in, other than the guy -- the only thing he believes in is the guy he sees in the mirror, that he looks at probably more often than is ever healthy for any human being. and his marketing is all about grievance. he is a marketer, a guy who knows how to market things, not build them, just market them. he is marketed always just to grievance, never to unity, never to aspirational hope we all want america to have, never pride in america, just grievance. >> yeah. >> on thanksgiving, you should thank america for being -- having values, and you should thank people and hope they come together. all he wanted to do on thanksgiving was make sure everyone knew that he was still really pissed off about everything, and he wants to make sure they stay pissed off about everything. >> you brought up something so -- >> sorry about that language. >> what language? oh, it's so much worse. you should have heard me the first -- >> please. >> -- actually, every second of the alabama game until the final throw. >> oh, my. >> claire, i'm so glad you talked about marketing. the crisis we're going through right now, where the world could really spiral into world war iii, but it's not because a guy who actually had 50 years of experience, it shows the contrast between a guy obsessed with marketing his brand, a guy obsessed with gestures, a guy who governed by gesture versus, well, joe biden, who has 50 years of experience. when a deal goes sideways on the hostages, he can pick up the phone, call, and get it done. when he meets with president xi in a critical meeting, he can actually -- they have experience. they have over a decade of experience working with each other when both of them were number twos in their countries. experience matters. the contrast, and it makes so angry when people are saying joe biden is out of it. no, he's not. on joe biden's worst day, he's light years ahead of donald trump on policy, on politics, on diplomacy. >> well, there's no question about that. frankly, on mental capabilities. you know, the ageism thing, look at the way donald trump behaves. who is more unstable? who is the one who doesn't know where he is part of the time, doesn't know who he is running against, doesn't know what year it is, doesn't know world leaders and what countries they're from? it is really, if you isolate his comments and look at them objectively, he is the one who is suffering from a problem related to declining ability in later life, not joe biden. >> yeah, and after that, there would be a lot of people going uncle, uncle donnie needs to maybe go to a community living center. >> yeah. >> he's out of it. >> a couple problems, emotion regulation. >> poor thing. >> pete, your latest piece takes a look at the impact of trump's language, and it set trump off. your piece is entitled "have you listened lately to what tru is saying?" in it, you write in part, que, trump's rhetoric is a permission slip for his supporters to dehumanize others just as he does. he portrays others as existential threats, determined to destroy everything maga world loves aboutamerica. trump is doing two things at once, pushing the narrative tha his enemies must be defeated while dissolving the natural inhibitions most human beings have against hating and harming others. e most troubling aspect of this whole troubling drama has been theeoe in the reblican party who, though they know better, have accommodated themselves to trump's corruptions time after time aftertime. for most republicans to acknowledge what trump truly is and still stay loyal to him would create enormous cognitive dissidents. the evangelical movement in america has been reshaped by the sensibilities of trump and maga world. it is a rather remarkable indictment of those who claim to be followers of jesus, that they would continue to show fealty to a man whose cruel ethic has always been antithetical to jesus's and becomes more so every day. it doesn't have to be this way. taking a stand for conscience, even long after one should have, is always the right thing to do. far too many christians in america are not only betraying their humanity, they are betraying the lord they claim to love and serve. >> you know, pete, this is not a close call. what you just wrote there is not a close call. you and i grew up with similar backgrounds. >> really good. >> we read from the same bible. we learned from the same bible. people can look and me and go, well, joe, he is -- it's not about me. it is reading the bible and understanding what it says and understanding the conflict between donald trump and everything that jesus teaches, everything in the be attitudes, everything in the sermon on the mount. you have a guy that some self-professed christians are following who talks about, well, terminated the constitution, but he uses fascist attacks, like you said, to dehumanize his enemies. he says to staff members that his vice president deserves lynching. he talks about executing generals. he mocks and ridicules an 82-year-old man who was brutalized with a hammer and almost killed. pete, you just said it, what shocks me is not that trump is saying it, it's the people who are laughing and cheering him on. i ask the question my parents would ask me if i had done something like that, "who raised you? you were raised better than that. who raised you?" that's the question i ask those people who were cheering on the assault of 82-year-old men and the dehumanization of all political opponents. >> yeah, that's well said, joe. it is a moral inversion that we have seen. the people who, for most of their life, have claimed one ethic, have not only wandered away from that ethic, but they've inverted it. they are now enthusiastically behind a person who embodies a kind of cruelty and dehumanization that is really unprecedented in american history. it's a subordination of faith to politics, but not just politics, but a particularly malicious and malignant kind of politics. i think it can only be understood in part through the frame of psychology. this is a kind of mass psychosis that's happening. you know, david humes said that passions are slave to reason. i think that that's what is happening. i think passions are dominating, and this is a very combustible mix of hatred and of fear and militancy. we have to elevate the threat of joe biden. they have to try to turn him into some progressive, woke warrior, you know, aoc. they have to escalate the sense that this is an existential attack on everything they want. i also think that this actually brings forth a psychic satisfaction in a lot of people, who feel like they've been dishonored and discredited. they see trump as, as he put it, their retribution. they seem to get excited about that. >> pete, i understand that. you understand that. i don't mean to cut you off here, but, you know, that's how we explained trump. i always explained, like early on, you know, and even throughout the presidency, i'd say, you know, thinking, why are they following him? i'd say, you know, they feel like the mainstream media, hollywood, academics, elites have mocked and ridiculed them their entire lives. >> right. >> so that's why they follow the guy. the enemy of my enemy is my friend. fine. so maybe that explains an initial attraction. but we've gotten to a point now where they're cheering on the assault of an 82-year-old man. they're cheering the calls for the lynching of a vice president. >> insurrection. >> they're cheering the calls for an assassination of the chairman of the joint chiefs. they are cheering on an insurrection against the united states. they are applauding people who brutalize cops with american flags that our troops carry bravely into battle for 225 years. if you don't like what the democratic party is doing, vote for nikki haley or ron desantis or chris christie. they have a choice. but they continue to choose the darkest, most evil, and i will say it, evil approach to american politics, where you celebrate the brutalization of 82-year-old men and the call for assassinations of american generals. >> yeah, look, i think that's eloquently put, joe. i share your outrage. i would say it is doubly so for those of us in the christian faith. this is a defamation of the christian faith. it is doing tremendous injury. but this has happened historically. if you look through the 20th century, you see the german national church with nazism, the dutch reform church with apartheid. you saw what happened in rwanda. 90% of the country is christian. unfortunately, there is a long history of this dehumanization, these passions consuming people, including people of faith. that's why i think there has to be such a pushback from others, to try, in a sense, to shake them and say, "do you know what you're doing? do you know what you're a part of? you've jettisoned everything you claim to most cherish in your life to make inner peace with this man who is a sociopath, an unfiltered sociopath." and he is undisguised in who he is and what he wants to do. that not only pushes him away, but it brings them toward him. it is a sickening episode in the history of american politics and the history of american christianity. >> rev, we should also underscore that donald trump's thanksgiving day message to the nation was sent at 2:03 a.m., which perhaps reflects also his mindset, as we've been hearing from people around him, just how anxious he is about the criminal trials and proceedings. his base is with him. they eat up messages like this. isn't this proof to the point that the biden team has made all along, that next year, when faced with a binary choice of trump/biden, as we likely will be, the undecided, the swing voters, suburban women, whatever they might be, some who might have gone for donald trump in 2016, broke away in 2020, aren't they going to see this again and say, enough is enough, i don't want to go back to this? >> i would hope that they do. i think that they will. i think as you deal with peter's article, you have to expect that, at some point, the moral leaders and spiritual leaders will say, this really is not about politics. it's not even really about trump. it's about who you are. can you be part of someone that reduces the humanity of people, calling them names, that make them other than human, and just absolutely declares war on everything that we stand for? there was an evangelical leader that endorsed another candidate in iowa this week, and he just absolutely smeared this guy. he bounced back, shot back, and i think faith leaders are going to have to start shooting back, saying, wait a minute, this is beyond politics. this is about what we believe in. otherwise, we really don't believe in it. >> all right. thanks, rev. pete wehner, thank you. by the way, the piece is amazing. >> can i just add one more thing to claire? >> real quick. >> hey, claire, when we talk this way, i know republicans, trumpers, are going, oh, well, they're so liberal. they're so this. no, as you know, i'm really conservative. but what we're saying right now, actually, what i've been saying for years now about trump, would actually help the republican party if evangelicals would listen. they lost in 2017 because of trump, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and they're going to lose in 2024 if they get behind this man who is losing it even more day by day by day. this is not anti-republicanism. this is -- what we're saying would actually help the republican party if they moved beyond this madman. >> yeah, there's no question that he is the weakest candidate they could possibly nominate. i know it is dangerous for me to talk about faith leaders with both reverend al and pete on the panel with me right now, but let me just say, i think the point reverend al made is so important. you know, people who stand at the pulpit in front of an evangelical congregation, who are dependent on their contributions for the finances of their church to work, it is time for those people, the people who lead these flocks, to do a gut check. just take a tour around the new testament and remind themselves what jesus stood for. and ask themselves, am i paying a price that is, frankly, not infidelity to my faith by not speaking out, by not saying anything about the dehumanization of other people by this man? jesus is the opposite, the opposite of what donald trump says. 180 degrees opposite. and i just, for the life of me, can't figure out how these people that are leading these churches look themselves in the mirror and proclaim that they are faithful. >> yeah. claire, thank you very much. pete wehner, thank you, as well. your piece is incredible, a new piece in "the atlantic." find it. still ahead on "morning joe," national security council official john kirby is our guest. we'll talk to him about a possible extension to the humanitarian pause in gaza. and the efforts to free the rest of the hostages. and we'll be joined by a woman who has had five family members taken by hamas. this morning, four of them are free. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. they brought it to safelite... for a same-day in-shop repair. we repaired the chip right away. and with their insurance, it was no cost to them. >> woman: really? >> tech vo: plus, to protect their glass, we installed new wipers too. that's service the way you need it. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ ♪ you were always so dedicated... ♪ we worked hard to build up the shop, save for college and our retirement. but we got there, thanks to our advisor and vanguard. now i see who all that hard work was for... it was always for you. seeing you carry on our legacy— i'm so proud. at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner. setting up the future for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership. live look at the white house. the sun is up over washington, a lot of work going on there. national security coordinator for strategic communications at the white house, retired rear admiral john kirby. sources close to the president have let me know the president was on the phone for most of thanksgiving, the holiday, trying to work through these negotiations. what more can you tell us about what's happening behind the scenes in terms of conversations between world leaders and trying to keep this on track? and what does on track look like? >> good morning, mika. yeah, the president was involved throughout the entire thanksgiving weekend with foreign leaders, trying to move this deal along. he was instrumental in getting it inked, signed, and agreed to, and staying in touch with foreign leaders, including the prime minister of qatar and of israel, just on the third day. today is the fourth day of this four-day deal, so we're looking forward to seeing more hostages released today. we certainly hope that two american women are going to be in the group. we don't have the perfect visibility right now on what the list is going to look like here today. fingers are crossed. we're watching this very, very closely, hoping you get another installment out. what we'd really like to see, and you heard the president talk about this yesterday, is an extension of this deal. a longer pause in the fighting for additional hostages coming out every single day. the onus, of course, israel says they're willing to do that, which is a significant move on their part, the onus is going to be on hamas, who also says they're interested in moving forward with some extension of the deal, but they'll have to produce something like ten hostages per day to keep this going. we'd like to see this extend for as long as possible so we can get all the hostages out. >> so is president biden and prime minister netanyahu aligned completely on extending this? >> yes, they are. they've both agreed an extension of the pause and an extension of the hostage releases, that's good for israel and good for the region. they both agree on that. again, the real onus here is going to be on hamas, mika, and their ability to find additional hostages and get them ready for release. >> admiral, good morning. jonathan lemire. we did hear from the prime minister of israel last night, though, in a video message, suggesting that when the fighting resumes, and he didn't say when it'd be, that it would be a full on war again, which would seem to be running a little contrary to the guidance the u.s. is trying to suggest, that it be more targeted, more selective in what israel does. what is the white house's reaction to the latest words from the prime minister? >> they don't have to be mutually exclusive, jonathan. you can go back to combat operations in a full on or aggressive way and still be careful, discriminate, and deliberate in terms of your targeting processes and what you're going after and trying to minimize civilian casualties. we are going to continue to support israel, get them the tools, the capabilities they need to defend themselves. at the same time, and we have since the very early hours of this conflict, continued to urge them and work with them to minimize civilian casualties to the maximum extent as possible. >> your comments the u.s. was not imposing red lines on israel obviously got a lot of pickup, you know this, around the middle east. >> yeah. >> has the white house changed its position at all on the red lines? and are youwe rethinking the language you use in public, like the president mentioned the number of hostages in gaza, and are you showing more placating to arab countries? >> our approach is very much the same as it was at the beginning of this conflict. we're going to make sure that israel has the tools and the weapons they need to defend themselves, to go after hamas, particularly the leadership. at the same time, and this is happening since the early hours, as i said, we're going to work with them and urge them to make sure they fully meet their added burden of minimizing civilian casualties, and be as targeted and precise as they can when they go after hamas leadership. look, they've said they want to pursue operations in the south. we've told them directly, we don't support them moving into the south unless or until they've properly factored in how they'll protect the civilian population. a large portion of the population they urged and helped move to the south. they had that extra burden again to try to protect civilian -- innocent civilian life. we're going to stay latched up with them on that. >> national security council coordinator for strategic communications at the white house, retired rear admiral john kirby, thank you very much. we'll talk again soon. we appreciate the update. all right. emotional scenes played out over the weekend. dozens of hostages reuniting with their families after nearly two months of captivity by hamas. we have 9-year-old munder seen running down the hallway and into the arms of his father. he was released with his mother and grandmother on friday. ohad had his 9th birthday in captivity and described how hostages went days without food. his grandfather is still being held by hamas. this is the heartwarming moment between sharon and her 12-year-old daughter, released on saturday. they were kidnapped after visiting sharon's brother. seven more members of the family were taken captive, and three were killed. the weekend's release also freed victims who were thought to be dead. this is 9-year-old irish-israeli dual national emily hand, reuniting with her father. emily was thought to have been killed in the attack. there's another reunion happening in front of them. when she was taken hostage. her family is said to be overjoyed to embrace her again. another hostage believed to have been killed was 77-year-old hannah katzier. that's because an online post by the palestinian jihad said she was. friday, she was released. her adult son, also taken hostage, was not. and her husband is believed to have been killed. the israeli government also released images of freed hostages. 39-year-old hagar and her children, and sisters who reunited with their mother. you see her holding them in a tight embrace after she says she spent weeks toggling between despair and hope. and 79-year-old moses saw her loved ones again. she's the aunt of our next guest. efrat was able to visit with her relative at a hospital in central israel. her 34-year-old cousin, deron, and deron's two young daughters, ages 4 and 2, were also released by hamas. they were reunited with deron's husband and the girls' father. however, the 80-year-old uncle, gadi, is still being held by hamas. joining us now, efrat, thank you so much for coming on and speaking with us this morning. >> thank you so much. >> i can't even imagine the conflicting feelings. so many different emotions. from what you've seen and heard, can you describe maybe how some of your freed family members are coping with everything? >> sure. thank you very much for keeping this story up in the news. it is so important because this moment of friction, of gratefulness, are only part of what the reality is. we are still missing so many. we are missing my uncle, and we are missing all the rest of the hostages. i have to tell, you as you can see in the pictures, i have an aunt who is amazing. it was so much joy, hugging her. i was grateful. still, when we cried, we couldn't hold our tears. we kept saying it is happiness. it is happiness tears. the fact we had to say that reflects the situation where one lung is inhaling so much oxygen of happiness, but the other one is still contracting, not being able to breathe, because we are still missing my uncle. i'm going with his picture now everywhere. this is him. like him are all the rest, all those innocent that were taken. we have no proof of life. we have no idea how they are. we want them back. look at him, he is just this adorable man who helps saving so many souls around the world. now, he is being captive. it's too hard to understand. i mean -- >> how -- >> yeah, i just wanted to share with you that my aunt, as amazing as she is, we understood that she took care of others. i think these values of being who she is kept her very, very strong. we were very happy to see her in her stage. she has no idea of the whole story. she is as wonderful as she used to be, and i hope for her full recovery and her reunion with all the rest of the community, as we lost one of four of the community. we are waiting for them to come back and to be able to -- life has changed for us. but we shall overcome. >> efrat, i'm wondering about the little ones. i know your cousin and two young daughters, raz and aviv, any word on how they are coping? they're so young. it must be so difficult for them to understand everything. >> i haven't seen them yet, but i did hear that it's slow. it's going to be a process. yoni, their dad, did a great job, and they're all together now. it is so important. but as you know, my uncle's partner, grandmother and mom, she was brutally murdered in front of their eyes. so it's very hard to cope. it will take time. it will take a very, very long time. and we still have to do everything we can to release all the other innocent that were taken on that terrible, terrible saturday morning from their beds and homes. it's a long way, and we need everybody's help. we believe that with the global support and our government initiatives, we shall bring them back. it's a matter now of getting a proof of life, which we don't understand how come, in 2023, we don't manage to get, and it's story of getting them medication. we know they need the medication. there are so many chronically ill people there, and we are so scared that time is running out. it has been too long. nobody has seen them. we don't know about their condition. they are not receiving what they need to receive as basic needs. something must move on, and they need to come back. it's very difficult. >> efrat, thank you so much for sharing part of your story with us this morning. >> and thank you. thank you for being with us during our worry, but also sharing with us the little sparkles of joy and gratefulness that we have. thank you. >> we are with you. thank you. coming up, we're going to get another live report from israel, for the very latest on the hostage release. also ahead, the best seller book "racism in america" is now a netflix documentary. the author joins us with the oscar winning director, oscar ross williams, with a look at the film stamped from the beginning. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ (♪ music ♪) (♪ ♪) the walking tree is said to change its entire location in pursuit of sunlight (♪ ♪) where could reinvention take your business? accenture. let there be change. hey, doc, quick question. okay? if you had to choose, would you give yourself a root canal or run payroll? run payroll, no question. you know how tough payroll can be, right? no. we switched to gusto, and paying my team couldn't be easier. gusto gives me unlimited payroll runs, next day direct deposits, and automatically files my taxes. ooh, taxes! sounds like you know the drill. good one! can i run payroll too? sure, after this. choose payroll without the pain. that's working with gusto. welcome back at 52 past the hour. look at that beautiful shot of new york this monday morning. we have a look now at a new documentary entitled "stamped from the beginning" a film based on the same award-winning name. >> what happens when we tell these myths of who black people are and what their role in american society is. >> it is crucial that we pay attention to it. >> these stories all about what's wrong with black people -- >> -- has so many real social ramifications because of the amount of people who bought into the myth. >> they make us the threat and you remove our humanity. >> it justifies all kinds of horrific actions. >> how are we intentionally given to us and what we are ingesting. >> we who have suffered at this are now saying to you, civilize yourself. >> powerful. joining us now, the author of "stamped from the beginning," eva max kennedy and award-winner roger ross williams. it's good to have you both. ibram, i will start with you. talk about bringing your book to life. what was that like? >> it was a three-year process, and i was really excited about the film being adapted -- i should say the book being adapted into a film because this history is one everyone should know. everyone should know anti-black, racism, and how they're enduring in our society. >> roger when you are as big as you are jealous of me, i'll brie fehr to brother kendi, but when you took on this project, particularly in an era where we've seen racism and other means of demeaning people, other ways of demeaning people, whether you're black, whether you're jewish, whether you're latino, did you have in mind a message of ibram's book and the timing of it because we're right in the middle of this kind of climate where you can see the documentary and then pick up the news and it's almost the same story. >> yes. well, i took this on after the murder of george floyd. i was like many americans, what is going on, and to see the massive protests all over the world, i was like, i've got to do something. as a filmmaker, what can i do? i can make a movie about it. so i read "how to be an antiracist," which was number one and then i thought i'm going to take on this 541-page-plus book and make a documentary. crazy. >> ibram, you were able to go from the top of "the new york times" list, which you knew was going to target you for controversy and really keep going forward, and i think that people don't understand, and your book brought it up most of these times, the subtleties they do. i always tell joe here on the show that as i was coming along, you would see in the newspaper a guy who represented three people, and they'd say the influential so-and-so said so-and-so. if i said something, the controversial -- who determines the controversial is the subtleties you talk about that we always had to fight. >> and in many ways i'm not allowed to just be a scholar. i'm not allowed to be a black studies historian. i'm viewed as someone who's engaged in political work. and, indeed, all scholarship is political, but not all scholars are called political. >> right. >> roger, you hinted to where i wanted to go with you. you said the challenges of trimming down the material into a documentary-sized project. that's -- it's extraordinary work, but also there's so much here. there's so much sad -- this sad reality that there's so much racism to try to be able to distill. how did you do it? >> i did it using every tool available to me as a filmmaker, animation, visual effects, graphics, you know, using women -- it's all black women academics in the film, which is a statement in itself. so, you know, it was basically bringing together all of these elements to tell the story of -- we're going over hundreds of years. we're starting in portugal in 1444, and we're going to the present day, so, you know -- and, also, making it accessible, making it so that people -- you know, the whole thing is making it accessible, but not diluting kendi's scholarship. >> it's streaming now on netflix. congratulations and thank you both very much. up next, we're live on the ground in tel aviv as the israel/hamas truce enters its fourth day. we'll speak to a senior adviser to prime minister benjamin netanyahu on where the state of the war is headed now. "morning joe" is back in two minutes. minutes. n sell all or part of it to coventry for cash. even a term policy. even a term policy? even a term policy! find out if you're sitting on a goldmine. call coventry direct today at the number on your screen, or visit coventrydirect.com. the subway series is taking your favorite to the next level! like the #20. the elite chicken and bacon ranch. built with rotisserie-style chicken and double cheese. i love what i'm seeing here. that's some well-coached chicken. you done, peyton? the subway series just keeps gettin' better. unthinkable. abigail has been released. she's safe in israel. we expect additional american hostages will be released as well. we will not stop until every hostage is returned to their loved ones. >> president biden speaking yesterday about an american girl who was orphaned by hamas terrorists and taken hostage. you heard the president mention 13 hostages in the end. 17 were freed yesterday. we'll have a live report from tel aviv on the people who are still being held by hamas as well as the future of the humanitarian pause in gaza. also ahead, the latest developments in the shooting of three college students of palestinian descent in vermont. the fgi said it is now investigating the attack. we'll have the very latest. plus, a tale of two thanksgivings, president biden sharing a message of optimism and unity. >> very helpful. they come together, which i think obviously -- i think anybody running for president would be saying the same thing, right? >> sure, absolutely. donald trump on the other hand, former president, candidate, spent the day rage posting on his media platform. super angry. >> he is an angry man. >> good morning. you're watching "morning joe." it's monday, november 27th. >> there's a lot going on. >> there's a lot going on. we hope you had a great thanksgiving. with us we have "way too early's" jonathan lemire. katty kay and columnist for "the washington post" david ignatius is with us this morning. there's a lot to tell you about on this monday morning. today is set to be the final day without fighting inside gaza unless the humanitarian pause on the israel/hamas war is extended, allowing more hostages to be released. hamas has released 58 hostages since the truce took effect on friday. four israelis and three thais were released yesterday including the first american since the pause went into space. dual national abigail idan was released. she turned 4 years old on friday while being held hostage by hamas. her parents were killed in the hamas terrorist attack on october 7th, so she emerges to safety as an orphan. under the initial deal, israel agreed to extend the pause one day for every additional ten hostages released by hamas. on sunday hamas released a statement saying it wanted to extend the truce, but as of last night, there was no official agreement. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu said there's already an outline for an extension to the pause and he would welcome it while the prime minister of qatar told the "financial times" the truce could be extended. if hamas could locate additional hostages being held by other armed groups. there's a lot to sort out here and also how much do they know where all of the hostages are. >> and sadly the hostages -- what's not being said, the hostages that are still alive. >> right. >> and we're also talking about the hostages that hamas actually directly has control over right now. so many questions. david ignatius, i would like -- i want to talk about the specifics of extending the truce, but i just feel like we have to stop for one moment because we are obviously focused on the acts of terror against the israelis, the bombing in gaza. these are the things that obviously grip us for good reason day in and day out. but if you could, talk about the extraordinary work. we haven't discussed this. i just -- i know this, so i know you know this. far better than me. talk about the extraordinary work that's been going on behind the scenes by the biden administration every time these hostage deals trip up. it's joe biden who gets on the phone, and whether he's cajoling israel, whether he's cajoling qatar, whether he's working with our allies across the region, i mean, the last couple of weeks, you don't -- you really don't see it in the newspapers, but it's been pretty extraordinary. the last couple of weeks have shown how actually 50 years of experience in foreign policy saves lives. >> well, i think you've said it just right, joe. the phrase, quiet diplomacy" is one we use often, and we're actually seeing a perfect example of that in this process of hostage release negotiation going back into the first days of october 7 when there was this terrible nightmare of hostages. united states began working with qatar, the country where hamas political leadership lives and with which israel has done business in secret for more than a decade through its intelligence service to try to see whether a dialogue about release of hostages was possible. i was in qatar just two and a half weeks ago the day before bill burns, the head of the cia and david came to meet with the qatari prime minister to work out the basic outlines of the hostage deal we're now seeing implemented. every time there was an obstruction, a blockage that people were having trouble resolving, president biden did get involved. he got involved directly with the entire relationship and with egypt, which at some point had a special interaction with hamas. he keeps it going, using the special power a president has to get us to these amazing scenes where abigail and the two daughters who she wrote so movingly about are being released. these are moments of joy. i would just note, joe, built into this process that president biden helped to create was the notion that more hostages would be released and there would be a dynamic of more for more. the more hostages you can find and deliver, the longer the pause will be. but we're getting to near the end of that. there's a dilemma for hamas, which does have difficulty locating all of the remaining -- they say there are about 100 women and children. over 50 have been released. there are still 40, 45 to go. some have being held by groups that are not easy for hamas to manipulate. so finding those hostages, getting them released is going to be a difficult process over the next several days. my guess is that this process will be extended a little while longer, but then it's going to hit a wall, and that's going to korea it a real dilemma for everybody involved, israel, hamas, and the united states. >> joining us now from tel aviv, nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez with the vegas latest. raf? >> reporter: mika, good morning. israelis are celebrating the release of that third group of hostages last night, and as david is saying, they're warily eyeing this fast approaching deadline when this cease-fire due to expire 7:00 a.m. local time tomorrow, midnight tonight eastern. we're hearing positive sounds from all sides about the possibility that this deal could be extended under those preagreed terms. one additional day of cease-fire in exchange for ten more hostages, but as of right now, there is no deal confirmed, and if nothing changed, the fighting due to begin again tomorrow. just going back to the hostages, 14 israelis released last night in exchange, once again, for 39 palestinian prisoners freed from israeli jails in jerusalem and in the occupied west bank. among those 14 israelis, that 4-year-old american asia israeli toddler abigail moor idan. it's worth pausing on her story for a moment not just because she's an american but because she's become such a symbol of the hostage crisis in this country. this little girl's parents were murdered on the morning of october 7th. she managed to walk on her little legs to a neighbor's house. she was sheltered there by that family until they were taken hostage themselves. they were carried into gaza. she turned 4 years old as a hostage on friday, and then last night after 52 days from captivity, she emerged along with the neighbors she was kidnapped with. she's now at the schneider hospital here in the greater tel aviv area. her family says she is doing well. fortunately it sounds like all of the children who have come out of gaza so far are doing well. there is concern about one elderly woman. she's 84 years old. she came out last night and she is said to be in serious medical condition. we don't know the exact details. because of her condition, the choreography last night was different from what we had seen from the two nights prior. before we saw these israeli hostages going from gaza into egypt and then crossing back into israel, but last night a different setup. they were handed over to the red cross in gaza city just a few miles from where israeli forces are positioned, and they crossed directly over the israeli/gaza border, that woman taken by helicopter to a hospital in israel. one young boy saying they weren't physically abused or tortured, but there were days they went without food, they slept on hard wooden benches, and he would ask to go to the bathroom and it would be hours before he would be allowed to go. his grandfather is still a hostage. we have seen that bittersweet note ore and over again. some members of one family will be free, but others remain inside of gaza. if the fighting does resume again tomorrow, it will be devastating for the people inside gaza who have been able to get some humanitarian aid over the last couple of days, and, of course, it is likely we will see civilian casualties rising once again. guys? >> nbc's raf sanchez live from tel aviv. thank you so much. katty kay, once again, it's a concern continuing to strike these deals that, first of all, the question of the number of hostages that are still alive and also 40 or so hostages that are being held right now by splinter groups that hamas doesn't really have that much control over because as hard as it is to believe, some of those splinter groups, each more extreme than hamas and don't have any diplomatic arrangements with qatar or other countries that we can even negotiate with. >> yeah. there was some skepticism of the emotion earlier on when they said they didn't have all of the hostages, that that was possible given that hamas controls gaza, but i think we've come to the awareness over the last few days that some of the hostages have come out that that is the case. we know that on october 7th, some of the people who went across the border were hamas, but there were also others from within the groups who went over and took hostages themselves, and that is clearly a complication. for the israelis, what's important is getting these people out obviously, but every single hostage who comes out, brings with them snippets of intelligence of how they were held, where they were held, the resources that hamas had to have to hold them. it's interesting that we heard just there from the reporting that one of the hostages who came out who said some days they didn't have food. that gives you the indication of the kinds of pressure the hostage takers are under. there are days they can't necessarily field them and would also lead you to think that getting rid of more of the hostages, handing back more of the hostages to the israelis might be something hamas might be interested in. the intelligence that comes out with the hostages is very helpful to the idea as they try to secure the release of some of the others even as they're being held by hamas. but maybe this pause we're seeing at the moment, there's the indication that hamas is using that, we hope, to try to find and regroup the other hostages. >> jonathan lemire, let's talk about the biden administration and the balance that they're having to strike. obviously they're dealing with qatar and the leaders there. you have obviously blinken, sullivan, bill burns, brett mcgurk, everybody fans out across the middle east trying to make this work and having success, keeping this process moving forward. but talk about the ongoing frustration that the biden administration has with netanyahu, the ongoing frustration about biden's hope -- president biden's hope that we can see an extension of this cease-fire, and if biden does resume again, when fighting does resume again, the israelis taking much more targeted approach. talk about the frustration the biden administration has right now about the fact that they still have fears there may be more casualties ahead if the israelis don't focus their attacks more carefully. >> first as you mentioned, all of the officials fanning out throughout the region, the president himself spending the weekend on phones this past holiday weekend. he spent the day in nantucket. it looked like the hostags wouldn't be exchanged that day. he got on the phone with qatar and israel and got that issue resolved. he has been talking to prime minister benjamin netanyahu throughout this crisis and certainly skplesed to netanyahu privately and said himself from what we heard yesterday that he wants this pause to be continued. he's hopeful the pause will continue. he thinks this is the best way to assure the safety of the hostages, that the chances of them getting out -- to your point, we don't know how many are alive or where they are, but the chances of getting them out is going to be hard. they say they hope israel will have a real targeted approach. it's been a mixed bag to this point. the u.s. has been leaning on israel to be selected, to be targeted throughout the conflict. there are moments where israel listened, other moments where they did not. we should mention this. netanyahu himself signaled he might be willing to extend the pause. he also said when the fighting resumes, whenever that might be, it will be a full on war again. so that does not sound like the selective targets approach the u.s. is advocating for, and that will be a real tension point going forward. coming up, we'll speak with one of the top advisers to israel's prime minister, former ambassador mark regev is standing by, and he joins the conversation straight ahead on "morning joe." e conversation straight ahead on "morning joe." for the ones you love. that's the value of ownership. the first time you made a sale online with godaddy was also the first time you heard of a town named dinosaur, colorado. we just got an order from dinosaur, colorado. start an easy to build, powerful website for free with a partner that always puts you first. start for free at godaddy.com hi, i'm ben and i've lost 60 pounds on golo. (guitar music) with a partner that always puts you first. i've struggled with weight my whole life. i'm sure you're like me and you've tried diet after diet. if you want to stop the insanity, try golo. apartment to arrest the suspect. the alleged suitor will be arraigned in court. this comes as two of his victims remain in stable condition while one sustained more serious injuries. the group of friends were in burlington for thanksgiving break, having known each other since attending the same quaker school in the west bank. the friends were walking to a relative's home at the time of the attack speaking arabic and wearing traditional palestinian scarves. police say the suspected shooter did not say a word before he fired at least four times, hitting all three men. the families are asking law enforcement to investigate the shooting as a hate crime. >> this is so horrific. these three young men actually went to schools across the northeast and they met up for thanksgiving at the home of one of the friends. >> in burlington, vermont. >> and then they went out. and now, of course, we have been warned not to immediately jump to the conclusion that it's a hate crime because, of course, that's what happened in detroit with the woman who was killed who was a synagogue leader right after the terror attacks, and that ended up not being a hate crime. that said, the fact that these three young men are from three different colleges came together to celebrate thanksgiving and were just walking down the street, and, again, two wearing traditional palestinian -- >> -- scarves. >> -- scarves, makes it hard to assume it was anything but a hate crime, but, again, the fbi will be investigating that, and, again, to talk about that process, let's bring in tom winter. tom, an absolute tragedy in vermont. talk about what the fbi will be looking at. >> i think they'll be looking at a whole host of things. how it went down, shortly after 3:30 p.m., atf agents who were in the area where the shooting occurred apparently encountered the individual who was arrested, who's been identified as jason eaton, 48 of burlington, vermont, quite close to the shooting. they're canvassing the area. approximately 3:30 in the afternoon they encounter him, take him into custody, and then the local district attorney and others got a search warrant and according to the chief of police, he said based on that search and based on the information they developed in the course of the investigation, they developed enough probable cause to make an arrest. it was conducted across from where the shooting occurred and that's where this individual lived. so we know he at least lives in that area. i think the question here this morning at his arraignment, we know who, we know how, and a big question to your point, joe and mika, i think, is why. >> tom, can you tell us a little bit more what investigate oors know about the exchange, what happened in the moments before he opened fire and if there's anything in the suspect's history that would lend credence to why this might be a targeted or biased attack? >> right. based on the report the chief put out yesterday afternoon, apparently this individual walks up to them and just starts firing. there was nothing said ahead of time. as far as this individual's background, that's something we're still digging through. i'm sure they're digging through it as well on the law enforcement side. with know the atf obviously made the arrest. they're critical with the information. to joe's point, they're going to try to determine at this point were there any statements that were made subsequent to that, when he was in custody, what did they find at the home, what did they find on his digital media devices. to that end, more direct to joe's question, the fbi was helpful in this according to the chief of police and the fbi, they were working with their cellside if he had his cellphone on and digital devices that could be helpful in determining motive. nbc news investigative correspondent tom winder. thank you very much. let's go back to david ignatius and pull out the big picture in terms of f the efforts to try to end this war where it seems like the smaller objectives along the way, whether it be small groups of hostages coming home, how to actually characterize going back into war mode, it almost seems like these objectives conflict with each other. >> mika, i have the same fear. this is a day when we're seeing these joyous images of young children being freed, reunited with their families, you know, removed and grateful to everybody involved, including key people in the biden administration. israeli officials tell me that they have not given up their fundamental goal here, which is to destroy hamas politically and that when this period of hostage release ends, and that is in a few days by anybody's calculation, they intend go back to high-ins tevty conflict. that's what was used to me. that sounds like what we were watching on our tv screens before the hostage crisis began. it was painful and led to a lot of outrage. i think israel is trying to figure out how to go back to war and accomplish its goal of destroying hamas without getting that same degree of international anger. it's going to be a very difficult problem for them. i think the u.s. will get involved in that. it's hard to predict now just exactly what proposals the u.s. will offer, but that's the dilemma that israel is facing. >> david, how clear is the israeli thinking on the next steps and what the repercussions of those steps will be? if that hi go back to full war, how clear are they on the pressure that puts on neighboring middle eastern countries and how long the leaders can with stand that pressure, how clear they are on the response that would come from europe or even from the united states? are they having thoughtful deep conversations about the medium and longer term? >> so, katty, the hope is this period of humanitarian pause to allow hostage release has been accompanied by significant new shipments of aid. we read about 200, 300 trucks that are carrying food, medical supplies, new shelter for people who have been forced to leave their homes. and i think the israeli hope is that in this environment where there's better attempts to take care of civilians, that some of the pressure may be reduced. these may be more targeted operations. that's been a debate that's been ongoing within the israeli military now for weeks, somehow they move to a period where it's more standoff and use special forces teams to go back in for particular targets when you find them. that would be a less bloody, less troubling thing for the world to watch. i think the hard question will be once you stop a war, starting it again is very difficult, and that's the dilemma that faces israel in the coming days. we'll have to watch that carefully. >> all right. "the washington post" david ignatius. we thank you very much as always for your insights this morning. >> i'll tell you, mika, just looking this weekend at the papers, we're going to talk about this later, but the "new york times" editorial lays out -- the editorial board lays out the way forward with the israel palestinian peace process, and there are people saying there is no peace process moving forward after these attacks. well, there has to be. we as americans don't have a choice if we're going to continue to be invested as much as we are in israel and in that region, and israel doesn't have a choice as so many israelis understand there has to be a way forward. it's hard to see right now, but "the new york times" editorial page, i don't always say it, but "the new york times" editorial page lays things out very well. i must say also in this age of tiktok where you just have idiot takes on middle east piece because somebody has seen it on tiktok or instagram on reels for 15 seconds, "the new york times" magazine this weekend lays out the history of the peace process, the failed peace process. >> it's vexed american presidents for decades, and it's -- there's not alignment now, and that's the fundamental problem moving forward. >> but we have to have an understanding of it, and whether you get it from somewhere else or you can -- there's a good primer this weekend, again, in "the new york times" magazine and also a lot of questions being raised. everybody's going to disagree with parts of this editorial, but, again, if you have somebody that's coming up spewing bumper sticker mentality of a 2,000-, 3,000-year conflict, at least have them read this and discuss it. you can tell them about the parts you agree with, the parts that you disagree with, but people have to be more informed on this issue because i think one of the reasons why you have such hate and such division is because people don't want to make this issue anything more than something that you can fit on a bumper sticker. >> exactly. coming up, new reporting on some major tensions in the white house and how israel's war on hamas has roiled the biden team like no other issue of this presidency. that's ahead on "morning joe." the promise of this nation should extend to all from new york to new mexico, from alaska to alabama. but right now, people like you are losing their freedoms. some in power are suppressing voting rights. banning our kids books from libraries and attacking our right to make private health care decisions. we must act now to defend these freedoms and protect our democracy. and we can't do it without you. we are the american civil liberties union, and we're asking you to join us in protecting our democracy at the national level and in communities like yours. call or go online to myaclu.org to become a guardian of liberty today. your gift of just $19 a month. only $0.63 a day will help ensure that together we can continue to fight for the freedoms of all 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has a story about, you know, these malls that we used to always go to. i can't even imagine how often you were involved. >> my dad wouldn't let me go. >> that's where people hung out. these things have turned into zombie malls. >> spencer's gifts. yeah. it's sort of like cities downtown. what's going to happen to one of these major places that aren't seeing businesses anymore, probably turning maybe into housing. >> that's the interesting thing is that financiers are actually holding onto these mauls even when towns are begging them to sell them because they're not -- they're holding onto it as possible future investments. but, yeah, there are zombie malls. and, katty, something interesting i noticed this week as i had time to go out to restaurants because, you know, we go to sleep, mika and i, about 5:30 every night before "wheel of fortune" comes on. i exaggerate just a little bit. everyone is buying retail on amazon or online. you're seeing retail stores in high-end places like new york just, you know, going burst. i'm starting to notice restaurants in certain areas also having less people inside the restaurants because everybody's ordering in now. they're getting delivery service. it's really -- i'm wondering if some restaurants are going to be going to way of some retail clothing stores too. we're seeing our whole economy, and this zombie mall story talks about it, is changing dramatically. >> this is one of those questions where i'm glad you spoke for a while because i thought how am i going to get to zombie malls and a sensible answer on this. okay, so we have had the numbers on this, that over the course of the holiday spending weekend, the sales weekend, the retail market, clearly online the numbers were good, cyber spending, all of the sales were great. we don't have the numbers for foot traffic in the shops, so we don't know about the people who actually go into the shops. but just this weekend i was out in virginia where we spent three or four days -- try to every week -- in the local town where we go, three of the restaurants are going out of sale because they can't get workers to work in the is are straunlts, and so three of the restaurants are going to be shutting down. if you talk about that or labor shortage, it's not good. it's not great. if you have a very small town which depends on tourism and its goes under, that's a problem. coming up, the latest on the release of hostages in gaza including a 4-year-old american girl. nbc's raf sanchez has the details stray ahead on "morning joe." stray ahead on "morning joe. ♪ luckily, replacement costumes were shipped with fedex. which means mr. harvey... could picture the perfect night. ♪ we're delivering more happy for the holidays. ♪ rsv is out there. for those 60 years and older protect against rsv with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe 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[gasp] >> customer: my car! >> tech vo: she didn't take it to the dealer. she scheduled with safelite. we have the latest technology for the newest vehicles. and we do more replacements and recalibrations than anyone else. >> customer: thank you so much. >> tech: don't wait-- schedule now. ♪ pop music ♪ >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ that first time you take a step back. i made that. with your very own online store. i sold that. and you can manage it all in one place. i built this. and it was easy, with a partner that puts you first. godaddy. that's all it is. there's a lot of airspace to cover for milroe. still looking. firing. near corner. it's caught! touchdown, alabama. >> come on. >> honestly, the noise in my house. >> come on. >> hobson, my dog, is still shivering in the corner. jack and his dad joe were so loud when this happened. >> your poor dog had to hear me yelling at alabama for three hours. and then the most extraordinary -- the final touchdown of saturday's extraordinary iron bowl between blame and auburn, jaden milroe finding his receiver on fourth and goal from more than 30 yards out. let's bring in paul finebaum and the host of espn's radio pablo torre. i bet you didn't know. this is why we bring paul on. i bet you didn't know who was responsible for bringing nick saban to tuscaloosa, alabama. >> it was horrible. the civic corruption here. the tent calls of "morning joe" are certified and now that paul finebaum is here, the sound bite was obviously you and the illuminady. the alabama illuminady. >> the football tribe is here. paul, let's start with -- i'm looking at -- come on, man. that was just crazy. for those of us that are in alabama or whose lives are centered around alabama, first of all, this is alabama's worst display of all year against texas. it was a miserable game for the four quarters until the end. but, paul, at the end of the game, you've got to -- as we've been followed for such a long time, but i think about lane kiffin's the kick, i think it was in '85, the kick six, and then this play for an extraordinary series. this is one of the most extraordinaire plays. >> yeah, and, joe, not to get analytical with a harvard grad like pablo, but you have to remember as the play began, espn analytics chance to win the game for alabama was 0.01. you can't go any lower than that. even for a couple of s.e.c. graduates like us, joe. it's extraordinary to think they pulled it off. what's more amazing, and i hate too bring it up, on the 10-year anniversary of the worth game where flick saban put a second back on the clock, tried a 54-yard field goal returned by chris davis 109 yards, not only did it win the game for auburn, it ended the chance for alabama to three-peat, three state national championships, which haven't happened since the late '30s. >> and, pablo, if you want to know, even though i tried to play it cool and go, they're just kids, they're just kids, i will tell you i have never seen the kick six. i have never seen it. when it was going on, by the time they got to the 50-yard line, i walked out of the room. >> you've disappointed pablo. >> i have never seen that play. i turn my eyes. it's pure filth. pure fifth. pablo, since you're a little disconnected from all this, first of all, you can talk about the extraordinary play, but also talk about the horrible, horrible decision that the college football leaders are going to have to make if alabama beats georgia this saturday and they've got to figure out who's going to be in the top four. who's not going to make it? an undefeated fsu if they beat louisville, an undefeated fsu? who's not going to be in there? texas? are they going to bump texas? because if alabama beats georgia, they will have beaten lsu, they will have beaten tennessee. i mean, there's no way you keep the s.e.c. out of these playoffs after the tcu debacle of last year. >> no, what i'll be doing as the college football playoff committee is mulling over this in their dark wood paneled room behind locked doors is listening to paul finebaum's show, because the anger -- the anger -- you guys know this. the exorcism that this play represented for alabama in the most haunted rivalry of sports, the iron bowl, i want to put that name in public because isaiah mentioned it postgame, this was called the grave digger. there's no other name for it. they practiced this on saturday. they never practiced it before. they pulled it off. the grave digging feels appropriate for the alabama team who's now back in the conversation. if alabama with one loss does not make it into the then-presi trump grant pardons without clearance from the department of justice. we'll dig into that reporting straight ahead on "morning joe." straight ahead on "morning joe." in the u.s. we see millions of cyber threats each year. that rate is increasing as more and more businesses move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network. [speaker continues in the background] the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business. when you walk up to the counter at the pharmacy and you have a new prescription, you don't know what it's going to cost. that's why i always recommend you check the singlecare app before you go to the counter. i found the cheaper price with singlecare! yes, you did. see. give it a try. go to singecare.com or download the free app today. only sleep number smart beds let you each choose your individual firmness and comfort. your sleep number setting. see. give it a try. and actively cools and warms up to 13 degrees on either side. and now, the new queen sleep number c2 smart bed is only $990 plus free home delivery when you add an adjustable base. ends cyber monday. only at sleep number. here's a look at some of the other stories we're following this morning. today the family of rosalynn carter begins three days of memorial celebrating the life of the former first lady who passed away last week at the age of 96. there will be a brief wreath-laying ceremony in georgia. mrs. carter's remains will travel by motorcade to atlanta, where she will lie in repose at the jimmy carter library and museum. it's not if her husband will be in attendance. close family say he will make every effort to grieve his wife of more than 77 years. one of the former minneapolis police officers convicted of killing george floyd is expected to survive an attack at the federal prison where he is serving his time. on friday derek chauvin was stabbed. the prison cfied an incarcerated individual was treated for life-threatening injuries. the minnesota attorney general's office confirmed that chauvin is expected to survive. we we're following a story in texas where a group of women are suing for what they say is the state's harmful abortion law which was able to go into effect after the repeal of roe v wade. the plaintiffs claim they were denied what they call medically necessary abortion care. now the case is headed to the state supreme court. this seems important. >> good morning. the group of women leading this lawsuit is hoping to bring clarity to some of the abortion exceptions in texas. right now the only exception are in cases where the life or health of the mother is threatened. but these women say they were denied abortions despite being seriously at risk. the case started with seven plaintiffs but recently added 20 pregnant women affected by the state's ban along with two doctors. one of the plaintiffs considered herself strongly anti-abortion. she said she never thought she'd be in this position, but that changed when she heard the news of her baby's fatal condition from her doctor 12 weeks in. >> leaking spinal fluid, no legs from the knee down. we knew that. he was missing one kidney and he didn't have a bladder. >> you had the mri, you got the results and spoke to the doctor. >> if kim even can make it to term, the child will never see the outside of a hospital. she's at a high risk of stillbirth or miscarriage. if it was my son i would want him to be with god now sooner than later. we knew that's what he was saying. call my nurse and she can give you a name to a clinic in new mexico that used to be here in dallas. the procedure was two days. the second day after they go through recovery and my husband was able to meet me at the door to help me get to the car. there was protesters out there. one man said, mom, dad, you guys could have been such a beautiful family. like hearing that, you're just like, sir, you have no idea what we did and what we've been through. we've judged people too, so we're no better, because i said before we've been so anti-abortion. then it hits you, oh my god, i was just like him and i didn't know the situation. >> other plaintiffs in the case say the language in the state ban also seems to be causing fear and confusion and what doctors can and cannot say to patients. they're avoiding conversations around the word abortion. listen to what one of the attorneys leading the case told me. >> physicians get a lot of medical training. they know how to treat patients. they are trained to not wait until their patients are on the verge of death before providing treatment. yet, because they are not trained in how to read these vague and ambiguous statutes, they don't know, does the patient have to be literally on death's door? we don't know. we're trying to get the courts to clarify. >> while this specific suit isn't going to fully restore abortion access in texas, clarifying the language of abortion exceptions could make a big difference in treatment options and care there. similar cases have been filed in three other states. >> wow. definitely follow those cases for us. they seem like they could have a lot of implications. that interview with that formerly pregnant mother, get that up on know your value. that was incredible. that was a robust look at the problem. thank you so much. daniella peer bravo. >> we've talked about this in the so-called book banning cases in the state of florida, which aren't really book bans, but they are laws and regulations that actually cause confusion, that seem to be ambiguous, and the point of many of them seem to be the ambiguity to freeze, teachers, students, librarians in place to figure out what they can and can't teach. it's the same with these abortion cases where it almost seems that the ambiguity is intentional to freeze doctors in place, to freeze medical providers in place, to freeze in place the very people who are meant to take care of women during some of these extraordinarily difficult times when their own lives may be in danger. >> these are the decisions you can't have made by a hospital board or a state court. this is abortion care health care. this baby, this child they were trying to have was severely impaired, fatally impaired. the question is exactly how much pain does the mother and the child and damage does the body go through. these are decisions that can't be made for people. i loved the interview where she talked about how she understands now more. i think everybody understands more that abortion is not a simple issue. >> you said it can't be made by the state courts. unfortunately we're at a position where we're going to have 50 different state courts and legislatures setting the guidelines in 50 different states. sadly, in this case you have extreists that push this to such an extreme position that women's lives are in danger every day. we're going to turn now to the fragile humanitarian pause in the israel/hamas war, which will end today if it is not extended in the next few hours. president biden spoke yesterday about the hostages released so far, including abigail edan, the first american hostage freed as part of this pause agreement. >> two days ago, one of our fellow americans, a little girl named abigail turned 4 years old. she spent her birthday and at least 50 days before that held hostage by hamas. today she's free, and jill and i together with so many americans are praying that she's going to be all right. she's free and she's in israel now. more is needed, but this deal is delivering life-saving results. it's structured so it can be extended to keep building on these results. that's our goal, to keep this pause going beyond tomorrow so we can continue to see more hostages come out and surge more humanitarian relief to those in need in gaza. >> it was the end of the 19th century that william randolph hearst came up with a line, if it bleeds, it leads. we see the explosions, of course, we need to see the toll. at the same time, what we don't see on the front pages of newspapers and what we don't see all too often on tv is extraordinary work that's going on behind the scenes. the quiet diplomacy that president biden is taking part in. you know you hear, oh wait, there's a snag in the hostage negotiations. i remember this weekend i said, you watch, joe biden is going to get on the phone. you've got antony blinken or jake sullivan or all of these people doing such extraordinary work. they're quietly working behind the scenes. and sure enough, we heard a few hours later there's been a break in the impasse because president biden got on the phone and started calling whether it was our allies in the region or the head of the qatari government, the israelis, it's extraordinary work being done by joe biden, because he has 50 years of experience doing this. and we have idiots who get their news in 30-second sound bites from tiktok and they think they understand what's going on in the middle east. they have absolutely no idea. that's why i think it's the media's responsibility to step in and do more that just, if it bleeds, it leads coverage. they need to talk about this extraordinary diplomacy. we have a guy in there who's more equipped to do this and is more successful at doing this than any president since bush 41. there's a reason. both of those men, both of those presidents got into office with decades of experience in diplomacy, and it makes a difference. >> a lot of people say biden's age is a factor, and you're damn right it is. >> in a great way. >> wisdom, experience. he's not afraid to put himself out there. he knows it all could fall apart, but he's got guts and he's unafraid. that's what makes him an effective negotiator, effective at diplomacy. this is the second war he has actually visited the country in the middle of a hot war in his presidency. this president has made history on so many levels. and the stupidity of the conversations about his age when right now age is absolutely a factor in these negotiations. i wouldn't want anybody else doing it, honestly. >> yeah, age is an issue. it's a positive issue. also, we've just looked at what's happened, whether it's ukraine or the middle east, but also mika brings up a good point. joe biden has visited two war zones now, hot, active war zones, the first president to visit any war zone since abraham lincoln. with donald trump, we had a president who didn't want to visit the graves of world war ii soldiers. there were other graveyards he was going to go to, but donald trump didn't want to get his hair wet. >> it was the makeup. i'm not joking. >> general kelly said he called people that got killed in war losers. the last thing he would do is go into a war zone. that's exactly what joe biden has done twice. >> that was a world war i cemetery in france which commemorated a battle with the marine corps. polls do suggest that voters are concerned about joe biden's age, but there's no question age is also an advantage when it m cos to his relationships with foreign leaders and just having been there before, having been on the senate foreign relations committee for decades, having served as obama's vice president. he was a globetrotting vice president. it's not just going to two war zones, but he has revitalized nato, he has traveled to asia, he has travelled to the middle east. he has received high marks even from some republicans on foreign policy. the presidency of joe biden has many days ahead of it, but there's no doubt he'll be considered an extraordinary foreign policy president. he's navigating this president now. we have reporting that he worked the phones all weekend long to try to make sure this hostage deal would go through, and now he's trying to get that pause extended. >> donald trump keeps mixing up who's president. well, he has responded. he says he sarcastically does it. >> everything that donald trump touches becomes bankrupt. >> he says that he does it sarcastically as an indication of the power of the forces that are actually running this country. then he goes on for 300 odd words or so about the cognitive test that he aced and no one's ever done that before. >> were you being sarcastic when you told everyone to run to the capitol? were you being sarcastic when you said you'd take dirt on a political rival from a foreign leader? was that sarcasm? just curious. >> or when he said he wanted to have generals executed. >> were you being sarcastic when you told america that our war dead were losers? was that sarcasm? what about s-hole countries? i could do that for four hours. it wouldn't be enough time. >> we'll play the clips where donald trump looks so lost and confused on stage. if he insists on doing that, we'll be glad to play the clips where he confuses world war ii with world war iii, can't figure out who's in charge of hungary, who's in charge of turkey. we'll gladly go there. in the meantime, we've been talking about the extraordinary work, in our opinion, joe biden has been doing on these hostage negotiations. but things are getting tough now. they're getting tougher in part because of questions how many hostages hamas still controls and how many are still alive. here on the front page of the "wall street journal," i have a great story "bid to extend truce complicated israel's goal to wipe out the enemy." that is actually the real challenge right now. let's bring in from tel aviv nbc news foreign correspondent raf sanchez. the "wall street journal" lead story today is exactly what david ignatius was saying earlier. the balance act for israel becomes more difficult now between freeing hostages and wiping out hamas. talk about the israeli government and the obstacles that it's facing moving forward. >> reporter: joe, we are seeing those complications playing out in realtime right now. it is a little bit after 4:00 p.m. here in tel aviv. under the terms of the agreement brokered by qatar, it is at this time that the hostages are supposed to be released into the hands of the red cross, beginning to make their journey back into israel. just an hour ago the israeli prime minister's office sending up the statement saying they are still negotiated over the hostages due to be released today. the families have been informed your loved ones are expected to come out today. as of an hour ago, that had not happened. so there is a lot of concern here some kind of hurdle is in the way of today's release. if today's release does not go ahead, you can bet this ceasefire is not going to continue and that is going to be devastating for both sides. we don't know what the complications are. we can assume the qataris are going back and forth trying to smooth it over, with help from the biden administration. not all of these hostages are not in the hands of hamas. while hamas has committed to releasing 12, 13 hostages every day, it may be that it doesn't have all of those in its own custody and now it is running around trying to get them from palestinian islamic jihad and from individuals, gangs who may have hostages. we've been hearing today some of the details of what these people have been through over the past 50 days. we spoke to the family of 9-year-old ohad. they weretelling us they were moved constantly between places in gaza. they had no idea of the scale of the attacks on october 7th, they didn't know if their grandfather was still alive or not. they say they were not physically harmed in captivity, but they had one main guard who as he gave them instructions would make a throat slitting gesture as to what would happen to them if they didn't follow his rules. they said they went for days without eating sometimes, they slept on wooden beds. all of the children released over the last couple of days are in good health. there is concern about an 84-year-old woman released yesterday who's still in hospital in serious condition. >> raf sanchez, thank you so much for that report. >> let's bring in senior advisor to israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. thank you for being with us. any insights on what's holding up the hostage release right now? >> can i start with agreeing what you said before about president biden's role? we've publicly praised him. the prime minister has praised him. there's no doubt we wouldn't have had this deal for four days of this humanitarian pause that is allowing the release of 50 hostages, women and children. it wouldn't have come together without president biden. we had a few bumps in the road. we still have maybe one or two ahead of us. i can tell you here in israel his input has been greatly appreciated. to your question, this is the last and final hostage release. it has to happen today as part of the deal over four days. working with hamas is never easy. it's like pulling teeth. it's painful. hamas is a brutal and fanatical organization, as you know. they never make it easy for anyone who deals with them. we're hopeful still that we'll have a release of the hostages tonight in the framework of the agreement brokered with the help of president biden. >> give us the sense, if you will, as to the best the government knows as to how many hostages are currently in hamas' possession. that has become a real cause of concern, that there seem to be some hostages whose whereabouts are not quite known or that other splinter groups might have them and not hamas itself. can you give us a better understanding of where these hostages are and who has them? >> before the releases started, we were using the number 236. we say openly that hamas is in corol of gaza, unfortunately, but that's the reality, and they are responsible for all the hostages. if someone else has them, they have the ability, because they control gaza on the inside, they have the ability to get those hostages. the idea of the four-day humanitarian pause in the fighting is so they wouldn't have any excuses. they could go wherever they needed to go to facilitate the release of the hostages. from our point of view there's one address, and that address is hamas. there are many more than 50 hostages. if they can't make that number of 50, it's clear they'll be in violation of the agreement brokered by the united states, egypt and qatar. everyone knows of the commitment for 50, and hamas must deliver. >> the front page of the "wall street journal" talks about how the bid to extend the truce complicates israel's goal to wipe out the enemy. that's something that david ignatius talked about earlier today that after this truce is completed, there may be extensions. obviously the people of israel want two things at the same time. they want hamas wiped out, at the same time they want as many hostages released as possible. can you talk to the balancing of those two competing interests? >> we don't think there's a contradiction between the two. on the contrary, we think the military pressure on hamas, our ground invasion into gaza and our attacks on hamas's military machine, we've destroyed much of its military infrastructure and we're eliminating their senior command. we think that has expedited the release of hostages. because hamas was desperate for a timeout. they needed the idf to cease our operations. let's be frank, we're talking about fanatical killers. they're not going to release people out of the goodness of their hearts. they're only doing so because they're under pressure. so the military operation has facilitated the release of hostages. i know the president and the prime minister discussed in their phone call yesterday the young 4-year-old abigail edan, both her parents were murdered on october 7th by hamas. she has two older siblings, a 6-year-old and a 9-year-old that hid in a cupboard and survived the attacks of that day. we heard what sort of things they went through. this is a family we have to care for, as a society we have to embrace and do everything to make sure those three children can have a normal life as is possible. i say this just to remind us all who is hamas and what they're all about, because who kidnaps 3-year-olds? she had her fourth birthday in captivity. still held by hamas is a 10-month-old baby, kidnapped before he could walk or talk. what sort of people kidnap a baby who could not walk or talk? i think that says everything about hamas that you want to know? >> terrorists do that. senior advisor to prime minister benjamin netanyahu mark regev, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you for having me. there is new reporting from the "washington post" detailing some internal strife within the biden white house when it comes to the administration's handling of the israel/hamas war. joining us now, one of the authors of that report, yazmin. >> we found there is a division in the white house over how the president is handling this crisis. to some degree, the division is between his senior long time aides and the diverse younger staff in the white house. there is some discomfort even at the higher levels of government just knowing that they know they're taking a lot of water on israel's behalf. we document a series of meetings and listening sessions and calls that senior white house advisers like senior advisors are holding regularly with staffers who can voice their discontent or discomfort or have questions about where the president's policy is going. what we found is there have obviously been previous policies and decisions that have roiled the white house where there is some disagreement how the president handled the fall of roe v wade or the withdrawal from afghanistan, but this one seems to be on a much more sustained basis. top aides to the president are having to spend time and energy making sure staffers feel heard and explains where the president might be coming from on certain policies. there is quite a bit of turmoil within the white house just over people who have differing views and opinions on how this should all be handled. >> reverend al, this is happening in congress among democrats, it's happening across the country. this is an issue that even before the horrific terrorist attacks of october 7th, israel was an issue that divided democrats more than most other issues. you're even seeing it, i'm sure, in the civil rights movement. there's always been a divide. inside the white house, it seems it's more of a generational divide. younger staffers especially are the ones who may be more concerned. >> you're right. even in the civil rights community and the broader community of those fighting on what we call human rights, there are those that have taken positions that are controversial no matter what said you go on. when we say we want to see a two-state solution, there are those that don't want to see that on either side, the pro israel side or the pro arab side or the pro palestinian side. yazmeen, one of the i think -- things i wanted to ask you is there are those that are concerned about israel as an ally, military ally, et cetera, for the united states and that we must respect that. and there are others that are saying how we must look in terms of human rights and what's happening in gaza and what happened on october 7th. do you see the argument between those that are looking at this from a strategic point of view and those that look at it in terms of human rights? >> i think that's absolutely right. this is especially evident with the president and his senior aides that they're looking at israel as a key ally of the u.s., a key ally in the middle east and they want to support it, especially after october 7th. then there are those who are very concerned about what's happening in gaza at the hands of this military campaign. we have more than 13,000 palestinians killed. israel announced a full siege of gaza shortly after october 7th. so there's been a lot of difficulty in getting basic needs, water, fuel, medicine, electricity. we document how the administration has worked to get aid trucks into gaza. israel did not want to allow any in at the outset. we document this meeting where president biden tells netanyahu's war cabinet, i completely disagree with that policy. i think you're right. there are staffers extremely worried about the humanitarian situation in gaza. the president has this historical lifelong personal attachment to israel that i think has very much driven his response here. so he has not even wanted to publicly criticize israel in part to do this diplomacy behind the scenes. he thinks if you publicly criticize israel, you lose leverage in private. they got them to go in with far fewer forces than they were initially intending to. but i think some people feel the situation is to dire that the u.s. needs to be able to speak up more and distance itself when it feels it's appropriate. >> thank you very much for your reporting this morning. >> thank you so much. this is a fault line in the democratic party. progressives have been far more hostile, far more skeptical towards israel and america's close alliance with israel through the years, far before october 7th than, say, republicans. republicans are fairly united on this issue. but the white house really feeling this right now, aren't they? >> there's no question. what they're saying privately to their allies is they believe this is in a way like the president's campaign in 2020 where you ignore the noise, you keep your head down, you do the work and you'll be rewarded. this is tricky terrain. we have seen polls that suggest young voters in particular, liberal voters and voters of color are very unhappy with how this administration has so closely aligned itself with israel. they feel like they're not doing enough on the palestinian cause. and in the meeting where the president was preparing to give a speech defending israel, it was the vice president who made sure they included a line about the evils of islamophobia as well. >> speaking of the evils of islamophobia, just an absolute tragedy that occurred over a holiday weekend in vermont. >> that's exactly what it's looking like. a suspect has been arrested in connection to saturday night's shooting of three college students of palestinian decent in vermont. a 48-year-old white male was detained after law enforcement found probable cause during a search warrant on his apartment to arrest the suspect. the alleged shooter will be arraigned in court later today. this comes as two of his victims are in stable condition, while one sustained more serious injuries. the group of friends were in burlington, vermont, for thanksgiving break, having known each other since attending the same quaker school in the west bank. the friends were walking to a relative's home at the time of the attack speaking arabic and wearing traditional palestinian scarves. police say the suspected shooter did not say a word before he fired at the men. the family are asking law enforcement to investigate the shooting as a hate crime. >> i'm sure that's exactly what the fbi is doing right now. it's such a tragedy. we pray for a full recovery for all of the people that were shot by the suspect. these young college students came together from different colleges. i think one went to brown. one was up in vermont. the fact that they come together for thanksgiving in burlington -- we're going to let the police do their job. we jumped to some conclusions on the woman who was the head of the synagogue in detroit. apparently that ended up not being a hate crime. here, though, it certainly is looking that way. our thoughts and prayers are with these three young students, these friends who came together for a holiday break and were just out walking and got shot. coming up on "morning joe," we'll tell you what elon musk is doing in israel this morning. and what the latest numbers for black friday and cyber monday tell us about the overall economy. also ahead, new reporting on a questionable pardon from donald trump. >> questionable. this guy that got pardoned, the reporting is that he was calling rabbis saying, you know, he's going to take care of him, that he was going to take children from people. this is a very, very bad person. the relatives supposedly said we'll pay millions for his release. that's what the reporting shows. and donald trump released him. >> pardoned on the final day of his presidency. what 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[dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ do you feel like buying something? because the comcast commerce tree is up. >> it's inspiring lots of shopping. >> we have a moment from the premier league to show you. take a look at this epic goal. an overhead kick buries the ball in the back of the net, propelling the team to a 3-0 win over everton. magic. >> boom. >> one more. i still think the alabama/auburn game end was as good as it gets. the other football. >> amazing. let's turn now to business. we bring in cbs nbc's dom chu for that. i want to know what elon musk is doing in israel. >> we look at the "new york times." they have a story about how his ex may lose up to $75 million has advertisers flee. >> all tied to those reportedly at least interpreted anti-semitic tweets or endorsements of anti-semitic tweets on his platform x. it's why so many companies have paused their advertising campaigns and what could amount to those losses you just mentioned. it's probably one of the reasons why elon musk is in israel right now, meeting with top officials there, including prime minister benjamin netanyahu, all to go over and at least show and see what is going on there between israel and hamas. we do have some reporting just in the last half hour or so about the meeting that prime minister netanyahu had with elon musk. in it, musk said he would want to play a part in rebuilding gaza once the war is over. he said i think it makes perfect sense that those who are intent on murder must be neutralized, then the propaganda must stop and make gaza prosperous. then netanyahu said, well, i hope you'll be involved, to which musk responded, i would love to help. you can see that happening on the ground right now in israel. >> let's talk about another "wall street journal" article about the phantom malls or the zombie malls. it used to be you would come on at the beginning of the show and we would say, how was holiday week in shopping, and that would be pretty much the summation of how the holiday season was going to start off. no more. a lot of retailers are looking to cyber monday, right? >> a lot of retailers are. we'll address the real estate point first. the reason why is, one of the lasting impact that is the covid pandemic had was this idea that a lot of folks changed the way they shopped because of the brick and mortar versus online shopping. many of those malls are worth shs less than they used to be. and those who bought those malls at higher prices and are now responsible for the debt prices on those higher prices are no longer seeing the returns and no longer making the debt payments on them. investors who specialize in distressed properties will come in and try to buy these properties at a lower price and try to make them economically viable again. there's all kinds of dynamics at play. you also mention the shopping thing. i've got to talk about what's happening with cyber monday. the numbers you're going to hear in the early part of today are americans will shop for about $12 billion worth of goods just today. adobe analytics tracks spending data for all these different companies. this is all in context of being 5.5% higher than cyber monday last year. the question becomes is how much is that people going out and spending more as opposed to inflation making goods cost more. it's going to be a big story. >> okay. we'll be watching that. thank you very much. amid the possibility of former president trump's return to the white house, new reporting is shining a light on how he allegedly used his presidential powers and what it could mean for a potential second term. the "new york times" reports on his final day in office trump granted clemency to a convicted marijuana trafficker named jonathan braun. at the time trump's own justice department and federal regulators as well as new york state authorities were still after mr. braun for his role in an entirely separate matter, his work as a predatory lender, making what judges later found for fraudulent loans to cash-strapped small businesses. according to the times, braun was put on trump's radar by charles kushner, follow of trump's son-in-law jared kushner. >> before we talk about how this really damaged an ongoing investigation. i want to read from your article yesterday. mr. braun was, to say the least, an unusual candidate for clemency. a staten islander with a history of violent threats, he told a rabbi who owed him money, quote, i'm going to make you bleed. mr. braun's family told confidants they were willing to spend millions to get him out of prison. there were other threats, telling a father he wasn't going to see his daughters again. based on your reporting and the criminal inquiries before him, this was just a terrible man and a terrible, terrible candidate for a pardon. >> yeah. the day after trump left office we wrote the original story about the fact he received this commutation. we were so struck by his background. we were so struck that there was a recent violent history. that he had a long history of making threats, that he was still under investigation criminally by the justice department for his role as this predatory lender. there's so much in his life that had gone on and so many allegations about his conduct and questions of criminality that we were just like, holy cow. so we wrote this story. we came back now three years later to see what were the consequences of it, what did it mean for donald trump to give this man pardon. what we found remarkable is that we were able to find tangible damage that was done from the pardon. the biggest damage of that was to an fdny criminal investigation. in 2020, prosecutors from sdny were in negotiation talks with braun about him flipping and becoming a cooperator to help in a criminal investigation against these other predatory lenders. there was a back and forth going, and the prosecutors had an enormous amount of leverage on braun because he was in prison and he was going there for five, six, seven more years. so they were in these negotiations and they were going to let him out of prison if he agreed to cooperate. what happened is trump commuted his sentence and all the leverage was lost and it really damaged the investigation. >> there's a line in here where the vice president's chief of staff said we wanted no part of this process. it was so unseemly. the entire pardon process was so unseemly, his quote was, it was so unseemly it would make the clintons blush. had to get the shot in. >> first of all, congrats to you and nicole. >> yay. a baby. isabella. >> there we go. explain to us how a pardon or commutation usually works in the white house and how it worked in the trump white house and in particular this case. >> let's use the obama administration as an example. they spent a lot of time trying to use the clemency process to help nonviolent criminals get out of prison who had enormous sentences. to do that there was a massive process between the justice department and the white house counsel's office in which the justice department would go back to the prosecutors who did the original cases and say, what really happened here, is this a good candidate for clemency. there would be debates back and forth. they would look at their records in prison. they would give that to the white house and the white house would go through their process to make sure they weren't giving commutations to maybe people who shouldn't be receiving them. that process was designed to try and ensure that there wasn't questions about why did this person get a pardon, why did this person get a commutation. we point out that bill barr, the attorney general, says that trump basically completely sidelined the justice department's process. >> one thing when i was reading the story yesterday that came to mind is that charles kushner himself had an interesting background in terms of having gone to jail. when you know donald trump as i knew him in the '80s and '90s, donald trump was a mentee of roy cohen. he knew a lot of seedy people. you'd go to boxing matches. he'd be sitting ringside with seedy people. what appears seedy to some presidents who are not that different from what donald trump was used to dealing with. roy cohen wasn't exactly a statesman. he represented the mob. these are the people he was comfortable with. i don't think americans understand donald trump's background. >> i think to your point, trump was very attracted to the clemency powers, because it was almost an absolute power. he could do it unilaterally himself. bill barr didn't like it. didn't matter. he could still do it. no one could get in the way. it would create instant loyalty between him and someone he gave a commutation or pardon to. what we know about donald trump, something that gives him enormous power and leverage over people is the commutations and pardons for the people who didn't cooperate with the mueller investigation or the people who stood by his side and were part of helping to try to overturn the election. pardons and commutations haven't gotten a lot of attention because there's so much to look at, but there's a lot there. >> thank you very much. we're back in two minutes with more "morning joe." we're back in two minutes with more "morning joe. move to the cloud. - so, the question is... - cyber attack! as cyber criminals expand their toolkit, we must expand as well. we need to rethink... next level moments, need the next level network. [speaker continues in the background] the network with 24/7 built-in security. chip? at&t business. >> i'd go to war for you, do you know that? do you understand that? against anybody. against this whole [ bleep ] city. they can try all they want. they can try all they want, but they're not breaking us up this time. you want to find a new home? huh? >> yes. >> i need to know we're in this thing together. tell me. >> we're in this together. >> tell me. >> we're in this together! >> there you go. that was a clip from the movie "a thousand and one" which won the grand jury prize at the 2023 sundance film festival. it's up for three wards tonight at the gotham independent film awards. the film takes place in new york city over a roughly ten-year period beginning in the '90s and follows a single mother who decides to kidnap her son out of the foster care system to raise him herself and follows them as they grapple with issues like urban poverty and the impacts of gentrification on low-income communities. joining us now, one of the movie's producer, emmy award-winning writer, actor and founder of the production company, hillman grad, lena wath as well as writer and director avy rockwell nominated for best o breakthrough director. >> so, avy, let's start with you, as the writer and director. talk about breaking through. who idea you wanted to break through to the audience that you did so extraordinarily in this movie. >> it's a story about mothers and sons and those complicated dynamics, especially when you come from a single-parent home. i think it's bigger than that. i wanted to tell a story about how hard it is to keep families together, how hard it can be to be break generational cycles in a city like new york that is constantly pulling and trying to rip them apart, particularly communities of color. i think this movie gave me an opportunity to explore the internal dynamics of the family as well as those external obstacles. >> lena, it seems like when you're as blessed as i've been mresed and my family has been blessed, second chances are possible. if it takes a village, a lot of times we have a village to help us out. you have a single mom, like we have in this movie, trying to do the same thing. those obstacles are almost insurmountable. it's almost impossible to move beyond your past, isn't it? >> i think what's so great about this film, it's attributed to a lot of those single mothers who are fighting for everything, their kids, themselves, the communities. it's a big reason we want people to check the film out. you can rent it on your couch. you can search "a thousand and one." please look at it and check it out. in these days we're trying to change the world. the way to do that is through art. you guys tell the news all the time and have your opinions about how things go. but the real way to change people's minds is through art. >> lena, you know i'm a big fan of yours and all the work you've done. >> thank you very much. >> when you talk about single mothers in new york. i grew up in brownsville, a single mother, on welfare, people don't understand the complexities of what single mothers and the kids go through. most of my immediate family went to jail. if my mother had been so, whatever, protective, whatever, keeping me in church, i don't know where i would be. that's why i'm so intrigued by this film, because it's not to justify anything. it's to give people an idea of the complexities that we had to go through. so even to get to being not going to jail and being in middle class is a major victory if you understand where we came from. >> absolutely. in our community sometimes our backs are against the wall and there are things we sometimes do to survive. a. v. shows what it's like to have a man in the house as well but has a past but wants to look ford the future. >> a.v., tell us how the film covers a lot of ground, and you have different actors that play the child, but touches upon real-life events that will resonate with new yorkers watching the film. >> i think as i was trying to figure out how do i talk about my coming of age era in new york, i chose to dive in through what was happening historically and what it meant to grow up under two eras, which was the giuliani era in the '90s going into the beginning of the bloomberg era and how the vision of those mayors would have impacted the communities of colors under them during those periods. >> all right. the movie is titled "a thousand and one." it's available on demand right now, producer lena waithe, thank you so much, the production company she founded is hillman grad. and writer and director a.v. rockwell, great to have you both. >> congratulations. >> thank you. >>. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage in two minutes. we'll see you tomorrow. minutes. we'll see you tomorrow the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do anything. cheesecake cookies? 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(we did it) start today at godaddy.com breaking news on "ana cabrera reports," just hours left in the delicate truce between israel and hamas. any moment now more hostages expected to be released and reunited with their families after more than 50 days in captivity. could the deal be extended? hamas, prime minister netanyahu and president biden all expressing support for a longer cease-fire, but can the deal get

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