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the prosecutor. providing a plethora of details about the days and weeks after the 2020 election. when donald trump and his allies tried anything and did everything they could to reverse what they knew was trump's election defeat. we're getting a look at what sidney powell and jenna ellis told prosecutors during the recessions. those are the meetings where defendants who take plea deals reveal any information that could be used against the other defendants in this case. which includes rudy giuliani and donald trump. former trump attorney general ellis descriing a chilling conversation with trump aid at a white house christmas party. >> i said something to him like i'm sorry that we haven't been able to do more. and i emphasized to him i thought that the claims and the ability to challenge the election results was essentially over because of the dismissal of the case from the the supreme court. he said to me in an excited tone, well, we don't care. we're not going to leave. i said, what do you mean? he said, well the boss, meaning president trump and everyone understood the boss, that's what we all called him, he said the boss is not going to leaf under any circumstances. we're just going to stay in power. and i said to him, it doesn't quite work that way you realize. he said, we don't care. >> we're not going to leave. we're just going to stay in power. that's what trump said. team trump. the statement deals a body blow to the notion that trump and his innermost circle believed that the election had had been one and then stolen from trump for trump and his allies, it was never about finding any voting fraud or voting irregulariies in the 2020 election. those are top lawyers admitting on tape she's not exactly an expert on elections. here's zid paul. >> did i know about election law, no, but i understand fraud. >> it wasn't any of that either. wow. we're also learning about a december 16th, 2020 oval office meeting that ties dth dpth to a key plank of fani willis' criminal enterprise. that's the use to disrupt the joint session of congress on january 6th. it's a meeting that was not detailed in the sprawling indictment that listed dozens of, quote, a acts of the conspiracy. "the washington post" reports this. chesebro recalled other trump advisers being in the room, quote, near the end of the photo-op, i had a back and forth with president trump on the matter of arizona came up, chesebro recalled to prosecutors, quote, i briefed him on what my understanding was of what was happening in arizona. chesebro told prosecutors that trump asked four or five questions that he summarized for trump in his november 18th memo to the campaign in which he called january 6th 2021 the real deadline for settling the state's electoral votes. though it was unclear whether trump reacted to his analysis. stunning new details, new evidence still coming in on the trump coup plot from allies that have flipped on the ex-president. that's where we begin today with some of our favorite reporters and friends. lead investigator for the january 6th committee is back with us. also joining us is the editor at large for the bull work, charlie sykes and carol lending. i'm looking for the gap between what you knew and the evidence that you were a able to develop on the select committee and what was revealed through the criminal prosecutions and criminal investigations. so your ae reaction to what you heard from paul and ellis and chesebro? >> a couple things significant. a as you said at the top, there was really never any serious effort to uncover voter fraud or any serious belief in its existence. it sounds very much like this was a political strategy from the beginning. generate fake electors, go to the room, state leg torts and state officials, the republican members of congress, that's the path forward. it doesn't really matter if we keep losing these claims. that is shocking. that's illegal. we got toward that, but this is more direct evidence. the other thing that comes through to me in all of these new debriefing tapes that are coming out is how much engaged the presidents was himself. a key fact for jack smith fani willis will be a personal involvement. he was briefed by chesebro directly on the fake electors plans. he's talking directly to sidney powell about these theories of election fraud, which are debunk. he is not a passive observer being advised by lawyers. he's engaged in discussions and controlling and understanding a plot. those are two significant things, very relevant in both case. >> federal prosecutor had for this question, trump has been charged with the civil rights era crime of denying the vote and their actual votes and the right to vote. it seems that knowing there was never any fraud goes a long way toward proving that trump intended to deny people their votes. >> yes, exactly right. if the civil rights charge requires mindful deprivation of a right, the fact that he disregards the actual evidence of fraud and moves straight to the political coup, those flanks in the multiprong to disrupt the joint session is very telling on his intent. the other thing that powell indicates very directly is she was present or repeated explanations to the president. again, go back to bill barr's analogy about the clown car. there are capable lawyers that had been with the president throughout his time. his campaign lawyers, even on the political side, yet he listens to or adopts the flawed reasoning of people like the clown car. sydney paul, jenna ellis, who is not far out of law school had no experience. these are the people on which he's going to claim to rely when the pros in the room are continually telling him in the presence of the clown car all significant evidence of his understanding and his intent. >> in the presence of the clown car, you said what? let me play some of the testimony. we have that on tape. >> were you ever around when someone, anyone told donald trump that he lost the election? >> oh, yeah. >> who? >> pat cipollone, derek lions, all thought he had lost. >> what was president trump's reaction when the advisers would say he lost? >> it was like they would say that and walk out. this is what i deal with all the time. >>. >> even if her she seems to be trying to flip, she's pruing that all the time trump was with the reality that he lost the election. >> derek lions, is a lawyer, those are people who were his lieutenants, trusted but his side throughout. they are telling him the truth. you lost. he continues to spout these ridiculous theories of election fraud, which no one believed. the game here is political solution, not a legal one to stay in power. very relevant. we didn't get it. all those witnesses said privilege couldn't pelt them. we didn't have the charging authority. so this is all kind of consistent with with what we found but beyond direct evidence as we had circumstantial. >> this is huge. and this is the kind of evidence that the individuals that refused to or didn't refuse to cooperate, they decided to exercise the amendment rights when they were before the congressional probe. this is one of those ways that nonlawyers can understand how criminal proceeding is different. it's yielded this tsunami of new information. and i think to tim's first point, it shows that trump's hands were on the steering wheel of the real minutia of the fake electors plot and the are recruiting of state officials at the peak of covid to come and be a part of the fake elector slot. let me read this. this is from the "washington post" reporting. ex-trump allies detail efforts to overturn election in georgia plea videos. he backed three rooms. and offered one to james, the former wisconsin judge leading the trump campaign's legal efforts to challenge the wisconsin results. chesebro told probation reports when he realized he was in washington, he asked him to come meet a courier who was flying with documents. the plan was to get them to the staff of wisconsin senator ron john, who would hand them to pence for the counting of electoral college votes. a lot of this happens. trump put this is in motion and ron johnson is over there on january 6th trying to hand off his bs slates to pence. it's amazing how if you reverse engineer it, trump had his hands on all of this intricate plotting. >> not to draw your metaphor too broadly, but the clown car, the president has his hands on a lot of clown car steering wheels all at the same time. i don't disagree with the premise that there was an increasing view that the only solution was going to be political. but trump has his hands on multiple steering wheels during this critical time. the dates are so helpful and interesting. it's the plea discussion that these witnesses against trump provide. let's put a couple on the board. december 19 is the day of that christmas party or even jenna ellis, who has pushed a lot of flawed fraud allegations and flawed illegal theories up to this point to try to help her president stay in office. even she is flum moxed when their right-hand aid says, the boss just wants to stay in office. we're going to stay. we don't care that we lost to the supreme court. we're going to stay. so december '19 is important because for multiple days after that period, donald trump is calling his acting attorney general, he's essentially booted bill barr out of the department of justice, he's left on his own power, but the has indicated he's fed up with his assessment that there is no legitimate fraud that would change the outcome of the election. sorry, it's bsp you lost. so now from this point on, donald trump is calling his acting attorney general pestering him every single day, something we learned from tim's work, asking, demanding, insisting, find the fraud. find the fraud. i have some other examples i want to bring back to you. i have some other examples i'd like to resurface with you that barr already told me were crap. but i'd like you to find them ask corroborate them. if you don't it, i have another idea for another acting attorney general. let's put another hand on another steering wheel and from great reporting, great congressional work, great follow-up reporting and the investigative process. another key date is january 3rd, 4th and 5th. when donald trump starts unleashing his twitter mega phone, to essentially turn his allies on mike pence, he starts telling people, okay, my last steering wheel move is to get pence to block the certification. and if i can't get him to do it, i want all of you to come to the capitol and help me push him and the rest of the republicans to do it. so the president is not giving up on niz of his cars getting to the finish line. >> it's so important and i'll put another hand on another steel steering wheel. this is the conversation from john carl. if he could have, he would have had the hands on all the steering wheels at the pentagon. he's irate when the military issues a statement saying the u.s. tear will not get involved in determining an american election. something that wouldn't even be newsworthy if the commander-in-chief had been enraged by it. but his hands are inside the pentagon. his hands are inside the justice department. his hands are inside dhs. his hands are deep insideing to point sidney powell to special counsel. he's basically one insurrection act or declaration of martial law away from doing what jenna lis said he wanted to do, which is we're not going to lee. >> as bill barr said, he was detached from reality. and that's what strike mess about this. the story about dan, this is hearsay. he's a notorious loud mouth. but it's an indication of the rabbit holes they were prepared to go, how little interest they in h in the transfer of power. and they are reporting that donald trump became obsessed with the notion that even after he left office he could be reinstated as president. so think about all of this together. it's easy to take these things separate and see them as sweet little incidents, but what you have here is a president of the united states who is detached from reality, completely uninterested in the constitutional norm of the peace transfer of power surrounding himself with people who were feeding him conspiracy theories, ignoring the voices in the room telling him the truth. and at the time, it was alarming. in retrospect, it's even more alarming to realizing that the president was trying all of this. how dangerous that particular moment was. >> i want to come back to you and ask if you think that these proffer sessions change any thinking about who the witnesses might be in the federal election case before the judge. >> i want to pause there for a moment because i'm not a prosecutor, as often i cover them. and so i think what i would rather answer is another version of your question and say, when i saw jenna ellis descriing in detail what was going on inside the white house, i thought that would be pretty useful for jack smith. if he doesn't already have it and know it. i thought that would be pretty useful to getting to the heart of how many people were sort of stunned, even the lieutenants, even the fringe lieutenants who were willing to sail on this crazy ship for a few weeks longer without real evidence of fraud, without real evidence of significant irregularirregularin they were taken aback by what the president, the boss and his top lieutenants were pushing forward. >> let me ask if t a different way. i think the thread that goes through michael cohen and that goes through all of the folks who pleaded guilty until they were pardoned, we have this sense from the outside that the bar is higher for trump. they must have so much evidence to take these steps. it always bears out. these are the trumpiest trump people. and in their proffer sessions, they reveal that in their dialogue, it's to think this was bonkers and unfounded and without predicate in any facts. there's nothing that erodes that narrative that it's always worse than it looks from the outside. >> absolutely. as a journalist, you wish all the time and we joke about it in the newsroom, you wish you had subpoena power buzz of the kinds of things you can learn when people are no longer talking in sound bytes and pr optics, but are speaking in self-interest to prevent themselves from going to jail. that is the power of our rule of law. and that is why people get into a lot of trouble when they lie to federal investigators. that is why we have a distinct country with a lot of importance placed on truth and honesty. and jenna ellis seems to be telling the truth in these videotaped remarks, because even she is taken aback by the gall of the president's plan. the boss is just going to stay in power, we don't care. >> it also explains trump's obsession with tearing down the rule of law for all the reasons you explained. thank you so much for starting us off today. stick around. fani willis opened up about the case she's prosecuting. we'll tell you about that next. also still to come, one of the biggest displays of solidarity for israel since the october 7th terrorist attack. tens of thousands of people including students and lawmakers and activists and families of those missing family members who have been taken hostage gathered at national mall today to condemn anti-semitism and call for the safe return of the more than 200 innocent civilian hostages. we'll have a live report ahead on that. plus the ex-president's dangerous call for his supporters to actually arrest the judge and the prosecutor in his civil fraud trial. what can be done about his rhetoric and make sure that those officials stay safe. we'll explain. later in the program, the big lie causing another big problem for fox news of the legal variety. the network has been hit with another lawsuit from another former reporter, who says he was fired after calling out their january 6th coverage. we'll have all those stories and more when we continue after a quick break. don't go anywhere. afr a quick break. don't go anywhere. salonpas, makers of powerful pain relief patches for 89 years... believes in continuous improvement... like rounded corners that resist 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urologist who can diagnose and treat pd. visit makeapdplan.com today. this probably in the country is a million people right now under investigation from everything from theft bishop lifting to murder. it would be a sad day if when you're under investigation for this shoplifting charge, you could run for city council and then the investigation would stop. that's foolishness. it's foolishness at any level. >> the district attorney fani willis today on the timing of a trial in her sprawling rico case against trump and his codefendants and how it collides against the 2024 election. we're back with tim and charlie. i want to say this carefully and respectfully. i think fani willis is proving the wisdom of her strategy base odden what we as a public are seeing in the guilty pleas. what with do you make of how it's unfolding so far? it's not an either or. there are different strategies. the strategy was get this adjudicated asap. the policy, they take action too close to an election. he got a late start. it reflects that. fani willis is not bound by that policy and has taken a broader approach. that's not a better right or wrong approach, it's a different approach. when you charge 19 people, people when they are faced with their liberty, their reputation, being on the line, they are going to have significant leverage to get them to cooperate. i think it will continue to happen. there's been three or four or five guilty pleas. i would expect as we get closer to the trial, there will be even more. and that will likely only strengthen the case. that's the benefit of a strauling rico indictment that brings in acts that occurred over a period of time by numerous people in different placess, even beyond georgia. so it's vindication of sorts, but it doesn't mean jack smith is wrong. they are just sort of different goals here. it really wants to get this adjudicated. the more the president keeps opening his mouth, the more likely it is and the more firm that date is. this is going to be resolved come march of next year. >> i want to read both of you a request for emergency protective order from fani willis today. it says this. the release of these confidential video recordings is clearly intended to intimidate witnesses in this case subjecting them to harassment and threats prior to trial. it constitutes indirect communication about the facts of this case with co-defendants and witnesses and obstructs the administration of justice in violation of the conditions of release imposed on each defendant. going forward, the state will not produce copies of video reportings to any defendant to prevent disclosure. defendants must come to the district attorney's office to review videos. they may take notes, but they will be prohibited from creating recordings. what does that mean she thinks happened? >> it meeps she gave those recordings to lawyers for those defendants who pled guilty. they disclosed them. and it must have been in their interest to do so. it's a bad thing for a prosecutor to have her evidence made public. wo problems ensue. other witnesses hear this. if they decide to proffer f they decide that they want to take advantage of a similar deal, she's going to have to untangle their personal knowledge from what they may have heard in these other recordings. prosecutors want to get from witnesses pristine accounts based on that witness's personal knowledge. the more information in the public, the other thing is just the safety issue. the jenna ellis sidney powell seen as having flipped or turned, there's danger, as we have seen all over the country, people get angry and the president stokes that with things like you come after me, i'm coming after you. it puts them in danger. so there's lots of bad things that happen when the evidence pretrial is disclosed that fani willis is trying to protect with that motion for a protective order. >> we have watched this for eight years now. donald trump hears that someone who has the goods on him has quit or has soured on him and he's threatening to prosecute bill barr and charge milley with treason. these are people with less independence from his political universe that are now probably in his world fair game. what do you do? and how do you think it impacts the federal criminal trial? >> the federal criminal trial is the one to keep an eye on because that has the best chance of being wrapped up before the election. we're hearing wul will might not be able to wrap this up until early 2025, which is unfortunate. but what is happening here? and why the judges need to take all this seriously. dths donald trump is running for president to make these cases go away. he's openly attacking his critics, including potential witnesses, as thugs and vermin. and making it very clear that he intends to make his presidency into a campaign of retribution and revenge. that will have the effect of intimidating anyone of thinking of turning over the witness. the prospect is out there he would pardon anyone who would decide to continue to stay silent or define the prosecution. so what we are seeing is this obstruction that we know that donald trump has made this a pattern and praks i, but it is at large. so it goes become to the question, how do you deal with donald trump? and this notion that somehow that the criminal justice system needs to deal with him in some different way than they would deal with any other criminal defendant. i think it creates asim think where donald trump is running this campaign of obstruction. if he's allowed to continue to do this. so this incident is a real concern, but it's a tiny corner of what's going on again in broad daylight, in realtime, which is something we have also experienced with donald trump. >> our discussions on this program, every day since january 6th, the slow pace of opening a criminal investigation, it's animated. the box that mark wrote about two systems of justice that he thought existed because of the bar that existed for bringing the case that alvin brag did bring against trump, but i feel like what you're saying is this needs to be underscored. the way he's acting, he's acting in a way that drug lords and organized crime people wouldn't act because they wouldn't get away with it. what do you think, take politics out of it. what needs to be done to preserve the rule of law in had this moment? >> at this point, you can't take the politics out of it, but to the extent that the judges have to make decisions, i think that they need to really recognize that they cannot have a two-tiered system of justice with donald trump. they can't cut him slack or allow him to do something that a drug lord would do with impunity. because he has so much power. there are no analogies to what's happening now. there's no parallel in the american justice system to what is happening now. the only way to get through this is being as consistent as possible and taking the idea that no one is above the law and no one is allowed to behave in a way that you or i would be allowed to behave in a court of law. donald trump cannot be allowed to flout all of these norms because what's happening here, again, is this full on attempt to undermine the criminal justice system. if you are a witness out there, and i want to repeat myself, if it you're a witness out there right now, you know what donald trump can and is prepared to unleash against you. there's no mystery about that. if you are thinking of basically keeping your head down or refusing to cooperate, you know there might be a pardon out there. it was incredibly effective for donald trump during the mueller investigation it's no secret and it's no subtlety. the judges need to understand that this is a fundamental challenge to the rule of law and the integrity of the justice system. >> the paper that jack smith's team is filing is screaming what charlie is saying. it is pleading the system to try to protect itself and the very institutions. and i'll stop using the drug lord and organized crime, because if the drug lord or crime ring figure, they are either found guilty or a mistrial and they get off. they don't go on and end up in charge of the justice system that may decide their fate. that's what's facing the federal judiciary. he wins an election, he will be in charge of all that. explain that. >> i think what jack smith's team proposed in which the judge actually entered makes some intuitive sense to me. they are basically saying, you can criminalize the criminal justice system. that's a free speech protected political argument that our system of justice is flawed. you can't, though, call a witness investigator min. you can't threaten court staff. you can't personalize it in a way that directs attention to individuals. that is the balance that the judge is trying to strike that was proposed initially by the special council team. generalized criticism is fine, now that's a very subjective standard and you come after me, i'm coming after you is that general or directed at witnesses. there's a lot of judgments that will need to be made to enforce that line. as charlie said, the only way that we protect the system is if there's actual accountability. if the rules are enforced, if he's convicted, if he's sentenced, it he's punished for a pretrial violation, to me, that's the ultimate test of the system. does it hold the shoplifter and the former president to the same standard to an objective standard of law, i think it should. it hasz potential to restore some faith. if they can sustain this, it will help are store fate. >> i think just to tie it altogether, seeing the evidence, seeing what these individuals who have taken guilty pleas saw and knew and having that spill into the public view strengthens the prospect of however that proceeding goes down, putting more information in the same way that the congressional investigation did into the public record. >> it's different. the congressional investigation is congress. i think a lot of people out there say that's a politicized process. if it happens in a court of law and it's cross examined and there's a judge in a robe sitting there, that might be different. the same that you have been talking about that we displayed in our proceeding. the courtroom is different. i hope it's different. >> not to drive this out, but trump thinks it's different. that's why he views it as existential. even the polling that is pretty alarming shows this a conviction may be a circuit bracker. it might be. it might galvanize the base. but neither does trump. and that explains some of the desperation. >> the base is never going anywhere. it's the persuadables. there are a lot of people in that category beyond the base. that's the core audience. if that changes, game over. >> i think that's the political reality with his rep till yan senses this even trump senses. we'll stay on that. thank you. charlie sticks around. when we come back, huge crowds gather on the national mall in washington, d.c. it is a show of solidarity with israel and the israel they people. they are condemning the rise of anti-semitism here and all around the world. we'll have a live report on all of that, next. we'll have a live report on all of that, next. at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your original medicare deductibles, but they may have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. humana medicare advantage prescription drug plans include medical coverage, plus prescription drug coverage. and coverage for dental, vision, and hearing, all wrapped up into one convenient plan. plus, there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs! humana has large networks of doctors, hospitals and specialists across 49 states. so, call or go online today and get your free decision guide. humana - a more human way to healthcare. in a crisis caused by a terrorist massacre. warning civilians to clear out, while hamas forces them back. allowing in food and water, which hamas steals. what was it like before viasat satellite internet? two words: not fun. log off. i've got homework! no way! it's still my turn! but now with viasat's new plans, we have plenty of internet. for everyone! learn more about our plans at viasat.com earlier today tens of thousands of people gahered on the national mall as part of the march for israel. forcefully illustrate support for the october 7th terrorist attack and to condemn the rise of anti-semitism here and around the world. war between israel and hamas has now entered its sixth week. and incidents of anti-semitism and islamophobia have skyrocketed. they called for the releases of hundreds of hostages still being held by hamas. our colleague lester holt spoke with the families of some of those hostages, including the great aunt of abigail moore, a 3-year-old who is currently being held captive by hamas. >> abigail is the youngest of three kids. and her mother was murdered in their house. my niece, the two kids there were spared. we don't know how and why. we learned that abigail actually had crawled out from under her father's body and full of his blood went to a neighbor and took her in. the last thing we learned is somebody saw the terrorists taking this mother, her three kids and abigail out of the kibbutz. they saw their parents be buried after they saw be killed. so what do you say to these kids? you give them love. you give them everything. >> you can see more of that conversation tonight on "nbc nightly news" with lester holt. joining our conversation is jesse kirk. chart ri is still with us. tell us what happened behind you today. >> reporter: we had people coming from all over between the clothing and the signs that people were holding, just some of the communities i saw represented out here. cincinnati, people from maine, minnesota, people coming from across the country. we're hearing about flights that were chartered from across the u.s. we spoke with people who took buss overnight. so this really drew people from communities all over. it wasn't just jewish people being represented here. we saw one group with signs that said christians supporting jews. this was multifaith, multidenominational. there were people who appeared tort more religious and were wearing head coverings. then there were people who were not. it was a whole range of different levels of religiousness from different faiths as well. and from i across the country it was the tens of thousands. you talked about the concern about at rise of anti-semitism. they put out new numbers saying in the month following the hamas attack on israel on october 7th, comparing this past month to the same time period in last year, they are reporting more than 300% spike in anti-semitic incidents in the u.s. that's one of the things people were speaking out on here. something that came up in some of my conversations with people was the inextricable link between israel and their judism. seeing the two as being intertwined. that's not universally held where i am right now. there were people who were protesting and speaking out and i saying that israel is not something that speaks for the jewish communities in the entire world, but that's something that was a sent the for some of the people here. >> the images that i saw all day and that are playing as jesse is talking are the images of the hostages. those fliers are everywhere. they are all over my nand. i neighborhood. i imagine they are all over the country and all over the world. one of the most wrenching things to see in the early states after the terrorist attack was them defaced and torn down. to see them all held proudly and safely and securely, i think sort of brings you back to what should be universal. that is the grief and horror of the innocent civilians who were the targets of that october 7th terrorist attack. especially the ones that are still being held inside gaza. >> this was so heartening about the scenes today that people are remembering these hostages. these are men and women and children, some of them are americans. this ought to be universally -- i have to say among the most depressing things i have seen in a long time has been -- i don't know how to characterize it. people think that it's appropriate to tear down these pictures, to tear down the posters. it's politically stupid, but also morally depraved to actually tear down pictures of children who are being held hostage by hamas. it's certainly not changing hearts and minds. it is not advanced. we are in a moment now where i have to tell you that american jews have never felt less safe. my father was jewish and fought in world war ii. so i grew up in a household where never again was seen as a fundamental commitment, both in this country and of the west. and yet american jews actually european jews of all political strooips are looking at what's happening now with real horror and real fear. because they are seeing something ancient and ugly they never thought they would see in their lifetimes. >> it's really -- you hear it anecdotally and you see it in the data. thank you for being there today and for sticking around to share the events with us. we're grateful to you. up next for us, another ugly day on capitol hill from one senator threat tong take it outside, he actually said that torks a he said, he said elbowing between house members. we'll take another trip to earth 2, next. trip to earth 2, next. did you know most dish soaps don't remove all the grease, even with scrubbing? whaaat? i just cleaned those. try dawn platinum. it removes 99% of grease and food residue. that's why dawn is trusted to save wildlife affected by oil. dawn platinum cleans to the squeak. this 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indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire over to the land of american idiocy we travel. nearly a fistfight in the u.s. capitol. yes, you heard that correctly. during a senate hearing today, republican senator markwayne mullin used his time to read aloud from a twitter fight that he had had with one of the witnesses in the hearing teamsters union president shawn o'brien. things quickly escalated from there. >> the tough guy act in the senate hearings. you know where to find me, any place, any time, cowboy. sir, this is a time, this is a place. you want to run your mouth, we can be two consenting adults. we can finish it here. >> okay, that's fine. that's perfect. >> stand your butt up then. >> you stand your butt up. >> stop it. no, no, sit down. sit down. you're a united states senator. >> i think he takes his ring off, and i think that's bernie sanders to the rescue. that's not it. there is more. that's not the end of today's reporting on physical fighting and threats of fill violence involving republican elected officials that happened today on capitol hill, because also today, republican congressman tim burchett, who voted to oust former speaker kevin mccarthy last month along with a lot of other people, claims that while he was speaking to people in the hallway, kevin mccarthy walked by and elbowed him in what he said was his kidney. >> kevin mccarthy walked by and elbowed me in the kidneys. >> you felt it was on purpose and not an accident? >> oh, it was 100% on purpose. >> the reporter was interviewing burchett. i guess our shoulders hit. i didn't know what he was talking about. i did not run and hit the guy. i did not kidney punch him. >> you did shove him. >> no! >> i would never do that. i dismantled all the levers of the speakership and resuscitated donald trump after a coup, but i would never touch a guy's kidneys. we're back with charlie sykes. what is happening? >> okay, there has been a lot of commentary that i think has been very unfair to middle schoolers and clowns. >> i left them out of it! >> to behave in that particular way. but this is just deeply embarrassing. maybe they have just been dealing with the crs too long. and by the way, kevin mccarthy has done this before. adam kinzinger described how kevin mccarthy likes to elbow people and shove people and run into them. and it is beyond -- it is beyond the childish. so we are -- nicolle, we've gone past the land of idiocy into the land of parody. this is circa 2023. >> do i have that first tiktok right? he seems to take off his rings the better to punch with, and bernie sanders says sit down. did that really happen the way it looked? >> is this real life? bernie sanders saying "you are a united states senator. sit down." he has to remind him, okay, you're not in some bar some place. and this sort of thing. but i suppose if you cultivate this super macho i am tougher than you are sort of persona, this sort of thing makes sense. i don't know that -- he is probably over on a certain other cable network, maybe they're thinking he is the fighter that we need. it's all about he fights. he triggered folks. it was just an embarrassing juvenile scene. i want to stand up in defense of middle schoolers. most middle schoolers know not to behave this way. >> they can't alone talk that wet, let alone tweet that way and then have a physical fight. it's true that middle schoolers are held to much higher standards. i want to make -- ask a more serious question. it has taken a minute, but we are seeing all of the signs of a country with only one functioning political party. rachel maddow made this point last night. there is only one to change that, and that is for the republican party to decide they don't want them. no signs of that happening, right? >> no. we talked about this before. there was five minutes when it looks like the normies of the party were going to draw a line and say the idea of jim jordan being speaker is too absurd, too ridiculous. we need to return to sanity. but of course within a few days, they turned around and they elect mike johnson. how mike johnson is going to turn around, we don't know. but there is no indication that they're serious about all of this. maybe they can keep the government open. but this really is what it is. >> so much more to say than that. it is what it is. charlie sykes, thank you for spending the hour with us. we are grateful. >> thank you. up next for us, donald trump calling on his supporters to arrest prosecutors and judges. see? it all goes together that too happened today. don't go anywhere. r husband! iphone 15 pro — ♪ (wife) carolers! to tell me you want a new iphone? a better plan is verizon. 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hospitals and pharmacies. so, call the number on your screen now and ask about a humana medicare advantage dual-eligible special needs plan. humana. a more human way to healthcare. there is a moment that does not share the basic beliefs in our democracy, the maga movement. there is no question today's republican party is driven and intimidated by maga republican extremists. they're not hiding their attacks. they're openly promoting them. we should all remember, democracies don't have to die at the end of a rifle. they can die when people are silent, when they fail to stand up or condemn threats to democracy. >> hi again, everyone. it's now 5:00 in new york. the most painful part about the whole thing for the american people isn't just that it happened, nor is it that it happens so often. it's that such overt intimidation barely registers anymore. it's not breaking news anymore. we don't know whether to lead with it anymore, the way we should. the most painful, most alarming thing about donald trump's threats of violence to those who would seek to hold him accountable is that very soon he might actually have the authority to follow up on the threats he is making day after day after day. today was new york attorney general letitia james, and judge arthur engoron, primary figures in the $250 million civil fraud lawsuit that is deep, deep, deep under trump's skin. mr. trump's attorneys went about making their case in court. trump is making threats, reposting on social media calls for a citizens arrest of those two officials. again, it is shocking. we should be shocked, but we're no longer surprised that a man who once asked why the military couldn't just shoot protesters who saw good people on both sides in charlottesville, who assembled a mob and it will the flame of a coup on january 6 would not urge his followers to exact vigilante justice on two people he views as threats and opponents. in fact, in another trial today, the d.c. criminal case having to do with that coup attempt, special counsel jack smith argued in a filing that trump's previous comments made it necessary to uphold an earlier gag order for much of the same reasoning. it is for that civil case in new york. state law does allow for so-called citizens arrest. but only when someone has in fact committed a felony in the presence of the arresting citizen. certainly not the circumstances the situation trump posted about today, no matter what he says. but remember, even before that threat, judge engoron revealed that his chambers have been inundated with hundreds of harassing phone calls, voice mails, letters, emails, and packages since this trial started. so this latest development is more gasoline poured over a raging fire. it's where the we start the fire with some of our favorite reporters and friends. msnbc legal analyst lisa rubin is back outside the courthouse covering for us. plus senior editor bloomberg opinion, and tim o'brien is here. also joining us, former assistant u.s. attorney and president of a leadership conference on civil and human rights, maya wiley is with us. lisa, i'm always interested for longer than the people are in the news in the people who trump targets with threats of violence. i still probe pete strzok about what it was like and andrew mccabe about what it was like and jim comb my about what it was like. even when those people aren't in the news, the threats persist. the reason that trump threatens these people so they look over the shoulder for the rest of their lives and their families. i wonder what the state of sort of reality is for the folks being targeted by trump today. >> nicolle, it's a really interesting question, because if you were in the courtroom today and you didn't check social media, and you weren't an employee at our network, you might not even know that it happened, because judge arthur engoron, who is indeed one of the targets of trump's latest threat of violence made no mention of it today, nor did we even catch a glimpse of new york attorney general tish james who was the other target. so what it's like to live under this constant environment of threat is not something that either one of them spoke about today. that said, tish james has been a frequent visitor to this trial, and when she has spoken to the media after breaks or after a trial day, she has made it abundantly clear that she will not be cowed. she will not be intimidated. the documents say what the documents say, justice will prevail. that has been her short consistent statement. but the attorney general, whenever she is here at this trial has a not insignificant security presence with her, and more importantly, the civil servants who are trying this case on behalf of her office, they too have security following them at every moment. there were a bunch of people in the courtroom that i always assumed were either with the secret service or with private security accompanying the trump lawyers who also have their own private security detail, i should ♪. and i later found out, that's not who they are at all. they're people with the new york state attorney general's office assigned to protect the lawyers who are career staff in that office. and i think after this trial is over, it's worth sitting down with some of those people, and i will try on your behalf to see what it is like to try a case of major public importance while these threats are lingering everywhere and anywhere that you can imagine, including on the internet. >> so we know, tim o'brien, that there is an extraordinary degree of threats against anthony fauci, a target of trump's, a target of a lot of his base. we know from the fib and the department of justice that there is a unit inside the department to protect the department employees who are trying to hold trump accountable. we know jack smith travels with even more security than what lisa described. we know from disclosures that the irs and nara, they are involved in the mar-a-lago documents investigation, and now prosecution of donald trump are facing unprecedented threat levels. we know mitt romney pays out of pocket for his security. some reporting from mckay coppins. we know that everyone that gets targeted, ruby freeman and shaye moss have described and testified that their lives were changed forever, that they feel like prisoners in their own homes basically. it never stops. no one is spared. general milley, bill barr, john kelly are the latest targets in terms of what trump is talking about. but the threat environment doesn't abate for previous targets. and i wonder the natural extension for trump as he heads into the last 12 months of a presidential campaign? >> well, you know, the first thing you think about is how much of this is empowered by social media. there was an era in which you could make verbal threats, you could write a nasty letter, but you couldn't incent so easily crowds of people in realtime to target your enemies. you can do that in radio. it became more of a thing with pd. but social media, and its primary beneficiary of violent antagonism in the person of donald trump really foments this. and he did it when he campaigned in 2016. he did it when he campaigned in 2020. he is going to do it. he is already doing it now. and i think it portends very bad things for what we might be when daily voting starts to get tallied in 2024, and in the lead-up to the vote in november, particularly in a handful of swing states where i think this presidential battle is going to be fought around very narrow margins, and i think they'll be the normal back room jockeying for advantage. but i think trump won't hesitate to all people on to the street. and i think we all have to be realistic now that we've entered a new rear. trump is an authoritarian. he deploys all of the verbal tropes of an authoritarian. heis conscience-free. he has never been anyone to harbor any kind of doubt or guilter targeting people he thinks are his enemies. and now given that he is on a national stage, the canvas of his enemies is broad. and you have to commend all of the people involved in the legal process he is surrounding him right now, because he is not only targeting them, he is targeting their loved ones. remember, he recently invoked jack smith's wife and children. so he is shameless and he is dangerous. and i hope that the various gag orders that have now been put up by both federal and state judges around the various prosecutions he is suggest to don't have to wait until there is something tragic or more overt to crack down harder on him, because he is really pushing not only the boundaries of the law, but the boundaries of public safety. >> so here's where we are, maya. i think tim described that perfectly. and we are in sort of post-fact, pro-political violence, if necessary. that's what the polls say most of trump supporters believe, violence is acceptable if necessary. the movement that describes themselves as the trump davidians, a blatant parallel to waco. i want to turn the question around. what do we do? this is who they are. we can stop asking questions whether they mean it, whether they're really okay with it. this is who they are. and the table is set, and this is what they're now just communicating to one another. this is what he is channeling when he truths the things -- i can't use that as a verb. when he posts the things he posts on truth social. what do we do? >> such a central and critical question, nicolle. and look, let me just say this. you know, we often talk about the fact that democracy dies in the dark. it also dies if we are fearful about protecting it. and one of the things that is so dangerous about what lisa and tim and you are describing is that it is a concerted effort to create fear in order to control our democracy and our democratic institutions. when we think about what courage is, you know, courage is not the absence of fear. courage is the conviction that we have to continue to fight for our democracy and what we care about. and it is that kind of courageous conviction that we need right now. and i think one of the things we're seeing in our criminal justice system, whether it's fani willis in fulton county or judge engoron in new york state, or jack smith in washington, d.c., we are seeing the courage of the conviction to see through the rule of law and the process that it has created. because the process is that the jurors themselves, the witnesses all participate to make sure there is a decision. but one of the things we have to do is to recognize exactly what tim said. you know, it's not just the fear that donald trump himself is sowing. there is a real attack, including one that is making it harder for us to hold the social media platforms themselves that tim referenced accountable. that's critical. we've seen youtube, for example, say you know what? we used to say it wasn't okay to have, you know, election 2020, election denial and disinformation, just flat-out lies that have been debunked on our platform. half of get their news from youtube. their news. now it's fair game. it doesn't necessarily get tagged as go look at the facts. this is not the facts. we do need all our institutions, including social media company to recognize that they also have to be courageous and principled and not allow a few to make them fearful about doing what is right to create the right spaces in their private companies' policies. that is not a violation of the first amendment. that's just protecting democracy. >> lisa, i want to ask you to pick up on that in this regard. it is courageous for attorney general tish james to proceed despite the threats and the intimidation. and it is valiant for judge engoron to repeatedly demand that his clerk be held harmless and off limits for targets. but it is also true that there are not attacks being levied against donald trump jr. or chris. there is a symmetry in terms of what has been leveed in the arena of threats. there are only threats against those working on the side of accountability and the rule of law and of civil trial into donald trump. i wonder how that manifests perhaps in ways that aren't obvious to someone outside the courtroom. >> you know, nicolle, if you talk to the attorneys on the trump side, they'll push back against the motion that there is such an asymmetry, and they'll tell you, as chris kise told me today, that the reason his side has private security is that there are threats to him and his team, that his phone rings off the hook, that people have left vile and very dangerous messages for him that in some cases he's had to refer to the secret service. and i asked him, mr. kise, have you ever encountered this in your professional career before? he said only once, when he defended two people who were witnesses against john gotti jr. that is famously a case prosecuted by mark pomerance. but the fact that they believe this is happening allows them to draw a false equivalence. because when i asked chris kise about the truth social posts that we were talk about earlier, he sort of dismissed it and brushed it aside like it was no big deal, and i will submit to you and i think you will agree that is in fact a very big deal for a former president of the united states to retruth some random truth social post that says he has a fantasy of making a citizen's arrest of the state's elected attorney general and elected supreme court judge who is overseeing a $250 million civil fraud trial against the former president, his adult sons and others that has the possibility of putting him out of business, particularly when that former president tells everyone from the stand that that brand, the one that's at issue is what got him elected in the first place. so they will tell you that they are under threat. and i will agree with you that that threat nonetheless is asymmetric, no matter how many times the justice department, for example, indicts someone for threatening someone like margie taylor greene, the threats of the tish james and the kevin wallaces of the world, the lead attorney for the attorney general are that much more pernicious, that much more evident, and that much more strident in the public domain. and we should in order to fight back, we just should talk about it more and express our shock and not become inured to it. >> listen, if there are threats against mr. kise, i believe it would be helpful to hear them and maybe help him figure out who that that was. i'd be interested if he turned any threats he received to law enforcement or secret service, if it was an actual investigation. and no one should threaten trump's attorneys either. i guess the distinction, tim, only donald trump is amplifying threats against elected officials involved in the case involving him. i'm not aware of any elected officials or front-runners for the nomination of the other parties to be -- joe biden isn't tweeting anything. the asymmetry is, one, the size of the platform, two, who is doing it, and three, it is only the trump base who has in numbers that i think have ticked up about 400% shifted in thinking that in some instance, if you can't seek your objectives through peaceful means, violence is necessary and acceptable. so i think, you know, all threats are bad. against all of them, i'll shout them out and play any threat that have been delivered to anyone. and we condemn them all universally. but what happened today is trump used his platform to as lisa just reported, to repost a loony tweet, not for nothing. mr. depape is on trial in san francisco for doing something with some echoes of the citizens arrest, right? he went inside speaker nancy pelosi's home to kidnap her or hold her hostage or interrogatory her, whatever he shed was going do and ended up bludgeoning her husband with a hammer. every elected official and every public person's worst nightmare realized that their family is in danger because of their public service. >> and, you know, citizens arrest is a polite term for vigilanteism. and the reason laws exist so people can't take the laws into their own hands and act violently if they feel aggrieved in any situation. this is not a bipartisan phenomenon. what we are witnessing now is the handiwork of donald trump and donald trump inherits a violent tradition in american life. violence has been with the country for a long time. we've had presidents assassinated, obviously. we've had people assault one another in the name of their own deeply held values or for even lesser reasons. but what we're seeing right now is really the handiwork of donald trump. he has tens of millions of followers on social media, and important subgroups of his followers are members of militia groups, armed militia groups who openly talk about fomenting violence against the government and violence against their opponent. and the one thing to consider in all of this is that donald trump, who has had every advantage in life, every advantage imaginable, somehow still feels aggrieved. he has always felt the world is against him. and now he is in a courtroom. and that toxicity is amplified to a very dangerous level, and people should be very vigilant and cognizant of what the consequences of that resentment are going to continue to be, because we're going get more violence, not less. >> a really important conversation in ways uncomfortable, but really important. lisa rubin and tim o'brien, thank you both for having it with us. maya sticks around a little bit longer. when we come back, fox news is facing yet another lawsuit, this time from an employee who says he was fired after raising concerns about lies pretty spread on his network about january 6th. the latest effort to hold right wing media accountable is next. plus, the senate is on the verge of busting through maga republican tommy tuberville's one-man blockade of military promotions which for more than nine month news has made our country less safe, less combat ready. what is being done today to get around his dangerous extremist stunt? and with more than 200 people still being held hostage in hamas, we'll get the latest from tel aviv as negotiations continue for their release. "deadline: white house" continues after a quick break. don't go anywhere. where. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. 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so they were accusing us of manufacturing a protest that didn't happen. my colleagues were bat shit that i did it. i wasn't trying to recreate something that didn't happen. i was trying to take a picture of something that did happen just for a photo. as it turns out, we didn't use the photo. we didn't use the film at all. but then the decision was made on our part okay, mckinnon, for the last five minutes of the show, we're going to nail you to the cross and my colleagues beat the shit out of me for five minutes for compromising the integrity of our show. meanwhile, fox of course, so i almost got fired for trying to create the truth. >> look, we had a conversation about symmetry. isn't that letting them -- you didn't manufacture anything. you didn't broadcast anything. >> no, i didn't. but we went beyond what we had to do to say we screwed up. and we told the truth. and meanwhile, so, meanwhile, fox fires the guy who is actually asking for just the truth. we weren't lying. we just representing something that had actually happened in a photograph. that's all. which we never used. so we didn't have to do what we did, but we did. that's the only point. >> and it's the distinction. i think these benchmarks are useful, maya. i think the fact that this is -- this is not someone who has harmed from the coverage that was rooted in a fiction. actually, let me play some of the coverage about january 6th, because i hadn't seen this in a long time. let me show you some of what was said by their top anchors. >> there are absolutely set on taking action. what happens today, i really couldn't tell you. but it was a peaceful crowd. the president really fired them up. >> i do not know trump supporters that have ever demonstrated violence that i know of in a big situation. the violence that i have seen taken place is whether after the rnc is confrontation while there was a demonstration. >> i'm getting the sense that there is clearly a big split in the maga groups that have come to peacefully protest with whoever is behind this intrusion into the capitol. >> maya, it's important to point out that at least in the instance of laura ingraham, that was the third voice that we heard, i don't know what time that broadcast was taking place, but we know she was texting mark meadows on that day and basically saying that you're ruining our legacy, knew how catastrophic the trump supporters' conduct and violence that she carried out which was described as medieval, the law enforcement officers on the other side of it was. what do you make of the legal pileup of pressures that fox is facing right now? we should say their lawyer, their legal executive who oversaw the legal branch during the dominion case and all those decisions has gone from the company. his name was viet din, i'm not sure who the new leaders are. >> yeah, i think most what matters what we're seeing about this pileup is that fox news earned it. they earned all this litigation, all these challenges because of their decisions and their behavior, i think mark just laid out the perfect juxtaposition to that. which is whether you're behaving as a responsible news agency or whether you are knowingly, knowingly spinning something that is deeply devastating and important for the public to understand, just in terms of the facts of what people are seeing and what's happening, what their own employees are experiencing, and that's the point about this lawsuit. this is a producer who is an employee who is actually saying i am not safe on the job, and you aren't telling the truth about it. and that is a kind of accountability. it's why we have these civil laws. they're not criminal laws, they're civil. but the reason we have this legal structure is to say, you know, unless we create a mechanism for people to be able to say you did wrong, you wronged me, and i'm harmed by it, it's very hard to make sure that private companies don't do wrong. and so it is its own accountability system. and they just earned every lawsuit they have. >> we'll keep following it. maya wiley, thank you for spending some time with us today. >> thank you. >> mark sticks around with us. when we come back, a big step forward to ending republican senator tommy tuberville's dangerous hold on military promotions. we'll get do that after a short break. stay with us. stay with us (carolers) ♪ iphone 15 pro for your husband! iphone 15 pro — ♪ (wife) carolers! to tell me you want a new iphone? 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(tony hawk) skating for over 45 years has taken a toll on my body. i take qunol turmeric because it helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. why qunol? it has superior absorption compared to regular turmeric. qunol. the brand i trust. at humana, we believe your healthcare should evolve with you, and part of that evolution means choosing the right medicare plan for you. humana can help. with original medicare you're covered for hospital stays and doctor office visits, but you'll have to pay a deductible for each. a medicare supplement plan pays for some or all of your original medicare deductibles, but they may have higher monthly premiums and no prescription drug coverage. humana medicare advantage prescription drug plans include medical coverage, plus prescription drug coverage. and coverage for dental, vision, and hearing, all wrapped up into one convenient plan. plus, there's a cap on your out-of-pocket costs! humana has large networks of doctors, hospitals and specialists across 49 states. so, call or go online today and get your free decision guide. humana - a more human way to healthcare. for months, senator tuberville has not listened to his democratic or his republican colleagues. he is not listening to those who run our military. he is not listening to former military officials. so we need to stand up for our military and our national security and allow these promotions to move forward because when our troops are on the battlefield, they don't ask if their commander is a democrat or a republican. they just do their jobs. >> senator amy klobuchar earlier today on the move to finally end alabama's republican senator tommy tuberville's dangerous blockade of military promotions as the senate rules committee voted to begin the process of confirming military promotions as one. the vote which passed the committee by a vote of 9-7 comes as senator tuberville's blockade is angering even his own party, fellow republicans taking to the floor of the senate earlier this month, attacking tuberville for damaging combat readiness. it remains to be seen, however, whether those same republicans will vote to advance the nominations when the vote goes to the full senate. we are joined now by senator amy klobuchar of minnesota, chairwoman of the rules committee. senator, thank you so much for joining us. >> thanks, nicolle. and thanks for call it a blockade, because that's what it is instead of the antiseptic word hold. he is literally blockading the entire military chain of command. >> i want to ask you two questions, and i know you have time restraints. just wave your arms and we'll free you. we stayed on this. what i don't understand is it used to be a circuit breaker when something endanger order politicized the military, that didn't hold. it used to be a circuit breaker when something endanger order threatened readiness. that didn't hold. it used to be a circuit breaker when that bled into combat readiness. that happened and that didn't hold. heart attack happened from someone doing two jobs impact by the blockade. and attacks, a hot war in the middle east and an american military outpost and installation and personnel are targets, and that didn't hold. what is the systemic fix for someone that can endanger all those things? >> thanksgiving tables. i think you're going to see military families all over this country discussing this, boiling up over this. in our hearing room, we had a number of military spouses there, some of whom they don't even know where they're going live. their there are spouses who have left their jobs waiting. there are things in storage. there are parents and grandparents and grandmas and grandpas that are in assisted living and they don't know where they're going to be because they go with their military member. this is a complete dish of our military. and i do believe that that in the end is going to change this. the fact that we got the 9-7 vote. and while we didn't have republicans joining us on this vote, we had some tempered language. we didn't have amendments. senator mcconnell clearly left open the possibility of working this out. senator schumer indicated his intent to bring this to the floor, but still giving them a few weeks to work this out. because in the end, as you know, nicolle, we need 60 votes, right? we have 51. so we need nine republicans. those certain republicans who have been outspoken are not on the rules committee, unfortunately. but they are out there talking about this now publicly, what they used to say quietly behind closed doors. i belief those are the reasons in the end we're going to get to this. because you can just keep going. they're holding up cyber com commander. they're holding up the head of the fleet over the persian gulf. they're holding up the air commander in the pacific. it just goes on and on. >> how do you make sure that when the country chooses its leaders next november, they know who didn't just abandon the military, but actively sought to harm them? the republicans. >> well, i think they've got to look at this vote today, and then they've got to put the pressure on now, because while i do believe that people are going to remember this, i believe it's also important that we just get this done by the end of the year. and the only way that we can do this is by getting nine republicans to come and join us. the fact that they're outwardly talking about it now matters. but in the end, if we don't get it done, it's just going to get worse and worse. the 350 plus that are held up, it's going to be over 700 by the end of the year, nicolle. if we were to vote on each one individually, we literally would have a shutdown. we wouldn't be able to vote on anything else. not the farm bill, not the bunt, not the defense bill. the republicans know that. and they just have to come to join us if tuberville isn't going to move. and every sign is he is not going move. >> senator amy klobuchar, we'll stay on this story. thank you for joining us to talk about it. >> thanks, nicolle. >> we'd love you to come back to talk about it. thank you. mark mckinnon, you write the ad. republicans in danger, combat readiness? you kidding me? and here is the thing. the democrats have so committed to governing that she wouldn't levee any political attacks. but if the shoe were on the other foot, you can bet your last dollar there would be billboards everywhere. >> this were i miss john mccain, ronald reagan, george bush, anyone. the republicans have always stood up so strongly for the military. and for this to be happening, up on the one hand, but is a violation of everything republicans have stood for. but to do it on an issue which is just trying to offer women simple rights in the military that they should have. he is going to the cross on an issue that is very popular with most americans. so he is just clawing his way to the bottom in a way that has no political upside for republicans for sure. >> and how do you -- how do you communicate that to the country? >> oh, listen. i can make that ad in my sleepy make that ad. i mean, that's so easy. just lay out what happened. you don't have to be that creative. >> right. >> just say that when republicans get the chance, they compromised our military readiness for, you know, the focus of one man that stood in the way of the entire country. >> and not that i ever meddled in your ad-making genius, but you could use the footage if you wanted to of republican senators on the floor. i mean, they laid into him. >> yeah, yeah, exactly. but the best thing in any advertising is just authenticity of people speaking in their own words. >> i know you have some free time. we'll see if that -- >> start cooking. >> it's so nice to see you. thank you so much for being at this table. you're always welcome. >> thank you. >> and congratulations again on an incredible run. >> thank you. ahead for us, we'll have a live report from the middle east where hundreds of people are still being held hostage by hamas as talks to free them are ongoing. the latest from tel aviv after a very short break. stay with us. the long-lasting scent of gain flings made it smell like dave was in his happy place... ...the massage chair at the mall. but...he wasn't. gain flings with oxi boost and febreze. mr. president, can you address the hostages directly and give them a message of hope and resilience in these troubling times? >> yes, i can. i've been talking with the people involved every single day. i believe it's going to happen. but i don't want to get into detail. >> what is your message for the families? >> hang in there. we're coming. >> "hang in there, we're coming." that was president joe biden's message today to the more than 200 hostages still being held by hamas terrorists in gaza, as he continues to push for a deal to free them, quote, without further delay. it comes as "the washington post" david ignatius reports that according to a high-ranking israeli official, israel and hamas could be days away from announcing a hostage exchange that would free dozens of the israeli women and children who were kidnapped on october 7th, as well as a five-day temporary ceasefire to allow for their safe travel, and for more aid to reach palestinian civilians. today israel confirmed the death of one hostage. israeli soldier noa marciano, just 19 years old who was last seen in a video released yesterday by hamas. meanwhile, fears grow, including from president biden about the fate of patients inside gaza's main hospital where israel says hamas is operating a command center. the hospital's director telling nbc news it has become digging a mass grave inside the hospital to bury bodies of dozens of patients, including babies trapped and surrounded by fighting as food, water, and fuel run out. let's turn to our friend, raf sanchez who is saying up late for us in tel aviv, israel. raf, there is so much. start with -- let's start with the hostages and president biden's comment there at the end, "we're coming for you." and david ignatius' reporting. what is your understanding of the negotiations? >> we were with the families of the hostages as they set off today from tel aviv on this five-day march to jerusalem. and when they get there, they say they're going demand answers from the israeli government, because they are experiencing whiplash. they see these occasional optimistic comments from overseas. they see these media reports that suggest the deal might be close at hand, and then they wake up every morning, and their loved ones are still in gaza, and there is no information. and they are in agony. it's not too strong a word. so they are going to jerusalem, and they want to hear from prime minister netanyahu. they want to hear from the israeli government what is going on. and of course, the tension here is exactly what president biden mentions, which is that these are negotiations of the utmost delicacy. they're fragile. they can fall apart if they're exposed to the light. and so the families of the hostages are just being asked again and again and again, trust us. they don't seem to have a lot of trust. they seem very frustrated with their own governments. the consistent argument we've heard from prime minister netanyahu is that military pressure on hamas will bring them to the negotiating table, and it will bring a deal closer. the families see it the other way around. they are very, very concerned that israel's ongoing ground offensive inside gaza is going to lead to terrible things happening to their loved ones, either that they might be killed accidentally in the crossfire or that hamas, or palestinian islamic jihad might murder these hostages rather than let the israeli military rescue them. the reality is these negotiations went on before the israeli ground operation. they're going on now into the israeli ground operation. once again, we are seeing hopeful signs. but i think as far as these families are concerned, they really will take nothing to the bank until they know that their loved ones are coming out. nicolle? >> raf, u.s. secretary of state antony blinken, joe biden, every israeli official i've spoken to since hamas uses innocent palestinians liing in gaza has human shields. it was one thick to hear that. it was jarring to hear that. it was another excruciaing level to watch it. i wonder if you can give voice to how the israelis are navigating that and how the government is trying to balance worldwide pleas to spare the civilian situation in gaza. >> yeah, so just in terms of the hostages, we've talked about this nicolle. this is a nation transfixed by these horrible videos that are coming out of gaza every now and again of some of those israeli hostages, we presume under duress. the most recent one is a 19-year-old soldier. hamas releasing a video of her recorded obviously before she was killed. hamas says yesterday she was killed by an israeli air strike. israel's not confirming that. they say they hold hamas responsible for her death. then there's this unfolding horror in gaza and elsewhere. i spoke to the head of surgery in al shifa hospital about these 36 premature babies out of their incubators because there's no electricity to power them. they're being kept in the surgery ward, swaded in blankets and covered in silver foil in this desperate effort to keep them alive, to keep them safe. hospital staff are manually pumping their small lungs to try to keep them breathing, but this doctor, told me earlier, this is very clear they're going the die if something doesn't happen soon. the israeli military offered to evacuate them with mobile incubators but as of now, no firm plan by the military. >> great to get to talk to you. so much happening. please continue to stay safe there, my friend. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. r us we'll be right back.

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