Transcripts For MSNBC The 11th Hour With Brian Williams

minnesota. we really appreciate. >> thank you, lawrence. >> jane fonda gets tonight's last word. "the 11th hour with brian williams" starts now. well, good evening once again. day 55 of the biden administration and tonight we may be entering the most critical point thus far in our nation's fight to crush this virus. we're being warned that we could still see another surge of infections, even as the new data are out showing we appear to be headed in the right direction. the vaccine rollout is expanding. nearly a fifth of all american adults have had at least one shot. we're averaging nearly 2.5 million vaccines a day, while hospitalizations continue to decline, yet experts are sounding the alarm that we are not out of the clear, not by any means. the concerns are mounting that we are next going to see a spring break spike in cases, giving highly contagious variants a chance to spread in our country. that, plus a rebound in air travel has the administration's coronavirus team on high alert. >> this past friday we saw more travellers pass through our airports, over 1.3 million. this is the most travellers that we have had in a single day since last march, before the w.h.o. declared the global pandemic. we have seen footage of people enjoying spring break festivities maskless. this is all in the context of still 50,000 cases per day. >> so, look, for good reason the feds are keeping a close eye on states and cities that are reopening and doing away with mask orders. today los angeles county allowed indoor dining at restaurants and the reopening of gyms and places like movie theaters. as many more cities in the u.s. are opening up, the opposite is happening across much of europe. italy has now imposed yet another lockdown in an effort to stop the latest wave of infections there. germany, france also embarking on crackdowns of their own because of their own spikes in cases. we'll have more on this later in the hour. the cdc, for its part, says americans need to pay attention to these overseas trends. >> i'm pleading with you for the sake of our nation's health, these should be warning signs for all of us. cases climbed last spring. they climbed again in the summer. they will climb now if we stop taking precautions when we continue to get more and more people vaccinated. >> meantime, the biden white house is planning a new effort starting in a few weeks to boost this vaccination rollout. "stat news" is report tonight the administration is going to spend some $1 billion to encourage young people, people of color, political conservatives, trumpers by another phrase, to get their shots. this afternoon, biden launched his campaign to sell the covid relief bill to the american people. >> 100 million checks in people's pockets in the next 100 days. shots in arms and money in pockets. that's important. the american rescue plan is already doing what it was designed to do, make a difference in people's everyday lives. vice president harris already on the road promoting this bill. today she visited a vaccine site in las vegas while first lady jill biden made the case for it at a new jersey elementary school. biden goes to pennsylvania tomorrow as part of the road trip to talk up this legislation. the theme of this travel campaign is "help is here." the president did get a win on a history-making cabinet appointment today. the senate confirmed deb haaland as secretary of the interior. former congresswoman, she will be the first native american cabinet secretary in our nation's history. she is a 35th-generation new mexican, making her, by one way of thinking about it, the most american cabinet member in history. all of this was going on as house minority leader kevin mccarthy was on the southern border with a dozen others calling attention to the increasing numbers of children arriving at our border without their parents. >> this crisis is created by the presidential policies of this new administration. there's no other way to claim it than a biden border crisis. the safety and security of americans at our border is the job of the president. he is the one who created this, and he is the one who can fix it. >> with that, let's bring in our lead off guests on this monday night. ashley parker, pulitzer prize winning bureau chief for the "washington post," a.b. stoddard, veteran washington journalist, and dr. -- sorry -- mu tus ka actor. doctor, i've gotten it right 30 times previously. clinical assistant professor at the university of college of medicine in phoenix. and he's on the air tonight with my apologies over mispronouncing his name. ashley, let me start with you. joe biden is on the road selling the benefits of this bill. he continues to sell the benefits of vaccinations. republicans, as we've seen are tbe, to be expected. they're doing the republican thing. can biden count on uniform support of all democrats as of now? >> well, biden's goal right now, again, is not even so much his people would claim to sell the bill as to explain what is in the bill and make sure that americans can access those tangible benefits. it's called, as you mentioned, help is here, not help is on the way, because what biden and his team want to stress is exactly what he said today in his remarks, which is shots in arms, money in pockets. and this is something that americans can start seeing tangible results with right now. and i'll add one final thing, which is the biden administration, which is comprised of a lot of veterans of the obama administration, learned from the mistakes of the 2009 obama stimulus bill, the 2010 affordable care act. but one of the differences is both of those were infusions and plans that promised that things would change or get better in the future. this is much more immediate. and when biden and his team set out across the country trying to keep democratic support, and frankly republican support, maybe not in washington but in mayors, governors, voters. they're trying to stress the help you need to keep your home, relieve your debt, get vaccinated, keep your farm, get your kids back in school is here right now immediately. >> a.b., you've done nothing to deserve this, but we're going to talk about ron johnson. when last heard from on friday, he talked about the protesters who loved america. yes they happened to have stormed the capitol, yes they had plans perhaps to hang the vice president, speaker of the house, and they killed a cop along the way. however, he said, had they been black lives matter protesters or antifa, then he would have had something to worry about. he was asked to answer for those comments today. we'll discuss on the other side. >> there is nothing racial about my comments, nothing whatsoever. this isn't about race. this is about riots. and i was -- i have been attacked and criticized because i pushed back on the narrative that, you know, there were thousands of armed insurrectionists. and that's just part of a small -- a small part of the 74 million americans that voted for president trump that also needed to be suspect of being potential domestic terrorists or also potentially armed insurrection nists. this is false narrative. so, the few pushed back get mercilessly attacked. i was quite honestly -- i wasn't -- i wasn't surprised, but it's still pretty shocking they would take what i consider completely innocuous comment and turn it into -- use the race card on me. >> so, a.b., number one we've learned he is a victim. number two, he says his comment was inknock wous. he preceded his comment on that radio show by saying, this is probably going to get me in trouble. he knew exactly what he was doing. is this a precursor for the senator announcing he's going to go home to wisconsin and spend more time with his conspiracy theories? >> it's so interesting that he said publicly recently that he's not so sure he's going run again and leaning towards not doing it because all of these comments -- and we talked about the ones at the hearing a few weeks ago on your show, about him saying it was a jovial gathering of good people who would never do anything wrong, who are police-loving and all of that. we talked about the fact that a former police officer from new york was seen beating, i believe fatally, a police officer defending the capitol with a u.s. marine flag. he heard from the fbi director again that there was no antifa and that these people -- these violent people who, you know, took siege of the capitol and produced seven deaths, five that day and two subsequently, he is doing this all intentionally, knowing that this is misinformation. and it was good, brian, that you pointed out that throw away line in a radio interview. i guess the ready yo interviewer's name was joe. he said, you know, joe, i guess this is going to get me in trouble. and once he comes back to washington, he's just so shocked people were coming for him. and his comments were innocuous. he's smarter than he's pretending to be. he's smarter than devin nunes and these goof balls that like to use this kind of rhetoric. it's very deliberate. i don't know if he's going to run again in wisconsin. i don't know if he's going to try to run. i guess he's probably getting a lot of small dollar donations out of it. but again no republicans pushing back. no one saying it's over the line. and i just wonder what ron johnson is going to come up with next week. >> it is a mystery. doctor, again, thank you very much for being on. this speaks to your line of work and our current circumstance, including where you practice medicine. when i point out the polling on vaccine acceptance, heck of a problem right now with one specific demographic group. and it's republican men. a lot of them saying no to the vaccine. of that subgroup, a lot of them were trump supporters. what are doctors like you in the field to do about this? >> well, brian, if the republican men who are refusing to get vaccinated all stayed isolated, then i suppose it would be okay because it wouldn't be spreading the disease. the democrats would be happy too if those republican men stayed isolated. from a biological standpoint, if they're going to be out and about which they have been doing and they don't get vaccinated, they're going to spread disease. it's as simple as that. unless they're wearing masks, which they seem to not enjoy doing, and unless they're distancing, which they're also not doing. so, it really is an uphill battle. remember there are plenty of countries who without a vaccine beat covid. taiwan, singapore, et cetera. they have so few cases that they effectively beat covid. so, there are ways of not getting vaccinated and still defeating the disease. but clearly we're the kind of country that needs the vaccine the most because we refuse to take those measures. and for people to say i'm not going to get vaccinated either is really adding salt to the wound, that wound being hundreds of thousands of dead people. >> actually, parker, let me go back over our question and answer in the first round tonight. and that is president biden trying to avoid the mistakes that obama made in real time not knowing that things like stimulus needed emphasis to the american people. here's why we did this. here's how it will help you. obviously portions of the biden presidency are going to be informed by the year he spent as obama's number two. let's talk about the left, the progressive bloc in the party. it was thought joe biden was going to have a problem keeping everyone in line. but in a policy sense, he has addressed a number of concerns and has over-indexed, correct, on that front? >> absolutely. so far at least the progressive left on the whole is quite happy and the biden administration is taking the lessons that, for instance, they were able to pass this $1.9 trillion stimulus bill will very few changes. it was the exact same high dollar amount that they set out to do. minimum wage was removed because the parliamentarian ruled against it. but they're still talking about a $15 minimum wage elsewhere and it passed with minor tweaks. so, they have taken this and their belief is they need to double down on what they say and what biden ran on as a bold, progressive, ambitious agenda. and you're seeing republicans starting to try to message this senator ted cruz, for instance, tweeted that biden is boring but radical. and there is something about joe biden where what he seems in his demeanor, in his true sort of genuine desire for bipartisanship and unity, he is very moderate in temperament but not necessarily in ideology and what he's trying to propose. so, the left is very happy. i think if there's one tension point with the next set of issues, it's going to be immigration which is a tough situation for any administration, the biden administration now and where the progressive activist who is have been fighting this fight not just through the trump administration but for decades are eager for real action right now, including a broad immigration overhaul. >> a.b., ashley, couldn't be more correct on immigration and how large it looms for this still-new white house. but where the republican answer to biden is concerned, some days last week it appears to be just about voter suppression. >> well, i mean, the republicans are roaming around trying to find things to agree on because there's not a lot of policy they agreed on under trump. and in the post-trump era, they're really amored about whether or not they're going to be for debt reduction or a safety net, which trump supporters and voters wanted, where they're going to go on trade, rejecting the trump era trade policies. so, they've leaned into the culture wars. the one issue on policy that is working very well for them is the crisis at the border that is now happening on joe biden's watch. that is going to unite them. that's why a bunch of members went to the border to message on this today because they don't want looking at a 70% or more popular covid relief package to sort of taunt democrats and joe biden on the relief package when they know that their own voters support it and are happy to be getting shots in arms and checks in the bank accounts. so, this is really, again, it's a salient issue, but it's the only policy issue at this point. i see them rallying around because they don't agreen health care. they don't really agree on debt reduction and trade and all these other issues they struggled with even the last four years thachlt agree pretty much these days on dr. seuss and andrew cuomo and that's about it. but immigration is a soft spot for joe biden. it's turning into a real crisis. he's being advised by his own member of his party that this is a political crisis, and it's one republicans are seizing on. >> and doctor, back to your bailiwick. italy -- and we have a report later on in the hour on this -- is ordering another lockdown. very quietly, new york's numbers have ticked up. what is your level of trepidation right now? does anything about what we're looking at right now -- how much travel is going on, how many variants have arrived inside our shores -- does anything remind you of when you and i had our first conversation around about a year ago? >> yeah, absolutely. i don't want to sound like a debbie downer or anything. there are lots of good routes. the vaccination numbers have been amazing in terms of reducing severe disease, hospitalization, death in the places people have been vaccinated. but it's kind of a race against time, getting more people vaccinated before more people get sick. as you mentioned the variants are here. europe rngs as you know from last summer, was the ones that had the surge before we got one. so, if italy's locking down now because of an increase in cases, what's to say that won't happen here as well. and that is the fear. now, we have been doing a pretty good job of vaccinating people, even better than the european union. so, that give mess some hope. but unfortunately the virus is very rampant. the variants are particularly transmissible. and as you mentioned with all the people traveling and having spring break, i don't know why they couldn't wait just two more months maybe to really, you are know at that point to begin some level of normalcy. the fact that states said we're 100% open, for example, or we're not going to have mask mandates is so preposterous. it's like being given the holy grail and saying, you know what? screw it. we were so close to being able to beat this with the vaccine, and my fear is we're going to have another surge before people are vaccinated, which is really unfortunate. we just have to hold on a little bit longer, and i hope people will continue to do so. unfortunately with the images we've seen and the travel we've heard of, i would be surprised if there wasn't at least a little bit of a surge. >> yep, your fears are duly noted and widely heard. i guess americans have got to -- american at the end of the day. thank you. big thanks to our big three for starting us off on this monday night. coming up for us, do republicans really want to be known as the party of voter suppression? they are saying it out loud after all. our political guests on this question and others standing by. and later, 68 days after the failed attempt to reverse our presidential election. an update on the case of the police officer who died as a result of that riot. we'll have the very latest, all of it as "the 11th hour" is just getting underway on a monday night. getting underway on a monday night. premium products, from 12 countries, over 10 years. olay's hydration was unbeaten every time. face anything. find out more at olay.com this is the sound of an asthma attack... that doesn't happen. this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils. fasenra is designed to target and remove them. fasenra is not a rescue medication or for other eosinophilic conditions. fasenra may cause allergic reactions. get help right away if you have swelling of your face, mouth, and tongue, or trouble breathing. don't stop your asthma treatments unless your doctor tells you to. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection or your asthma worsens. headache and sore throat may occur. this is the sound of fasenra. ask your doctor about fasenra. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. it all starts with an invitation... ...to experience lexus. the invitation to lexus sales event. lease the 2021 is 300 for $359 a month for 36 month's, and we'll make you're first month's payment. experience amazing. our objective is very simple, and that is to ensure that every eligible voter gets to vote. it's also to ensure that only eligible votes are the ones that count at the ballot box. >> texas, one of 43 states where bills to make it harder to vote have been proposed. nbc news describes an avalanche of bills to curtail voting in texas. quote, more than two dozen gop sponsored election bills are under consideration in the legislature as law makers seek to tighten id requirements, limit early voting and up the penalties for errors. on sunday, voting rights advocate stacey abrams said this about similar efforts in her home state of georgia. >> these bills are nothing more than a pretext for returning to jim crow and stopping voters they don't want to hear from. and my belief is that voters across this country, when they see their right to vote is being thwarted will do what they can to push back. they shouldn't have to fight alone. that's why we elected congress, that's why we have a constitution. >> back with us tonight, david plouffe, former obama campaign manager, senior adviser to president obama, also on the board of directors of the obama foundation. and matt k. lewis, back with us, conservative commentator, senior columnist for "the daily beast." david, i guess moneys in pockets and shots in arms is new chicken in every pot and a car in every garage. it sums up the early success this new president has had. so, that brings me to you and the question now what. and how about voter suppression as an effort to joe biden to get behind? >> he has to, brian. so, on january 6th, you know, flag poles were tried, fists and fea to topple our democracy. it failed. so, republican politicians all over the country and taken the baton from the insurrectionists and filing legislation to make it harder to vote. some states are saying the legislature can decide who wins the elections, no matter who casts the votes. this is an existential threat to our country, our democracy. at the end of the day joe biden is off to an amazing start. i'm sure he'll continue to make great progress on the vaccine, on the economy, on immigration as you were talking about in the previous segment. if basically our democracy is torn apart and republican politicians can choose who votes and how those votes are counted, we don't have a democracy. we don't have a country. for the people act, the john lewis bill, maybe a combination of those things, is going to have to be the law of the land. whether you get the filibuster entire or have to reform it, this has to have. this will echo through decades if not generations if these efforts are suppressed. one last thing as a former practitioner. donald trump showed some ability to gain votes among some particularly male hispanic voters a little bit in some of the rural african-american male community. what they should do is say, how are we going to invest and try and build our numbers are minority voters, with young voters so that they can become more competitive because this country continues the demographic march. they're going to try to cripple our democracy so they can win the next couple of elections. with this party that's increasingly comfortable with open racism and voter suppression, if they gain back the house and senate and white house we are going to be living in an autocracy. sorry to say it. >> well, matt lewis, that kind of takes your breath away. i was going to ask you a question about the now former president. could you make an argument that donald trump's impact is already diminishing? and would you have been surprised to know this at the time he left office? >> yes and yes. i thought that those people who said that donald trump might fade away, i thought they were being really naive. and we saw him speak at cpac. we saw polling that showed that he still had a lot of control over the republican party. but it is -- it does feel like donald trump has receded from the center of attention finally after years. and i think a lot of it has to do with not being on twitter. i think it's really hard to overestimate the importance of twitter in term of donald trump staying relevant, staying in the public eye, driving debates and discussion, of course not being president, not having the bully pulpit is also a part of it. and i'm reminded of sarah palin. sarah palin had a couple of years there where she was really the defacto leader of the republican party. i remember when she was flirting with running for president, sort of teasing the press around, i think it was 2011. the media was basically chasing her bus around on a book tour to see if she would say that she's running. but what happened with sarah palin is she actually endorsed an entire generation of competitors who basically cannibalized her. people like nikki haley and marco rubio and all of these younger conservatives who were actually in office. and i think that's part of what's going to happen to donald trump. it's not that donald trump goes away and the republican party is going to get sane again all of a sudden. it's that donald trump goes away and somebody else more exciting, maybe even a younger, more relevant trump, will inherit that mantle. >> wow. strong stuff right out of the box from both of these gentlemen, who by the way have agreed to stay with us as we sneak in a break. coming up, however, an update on the democrats' dilemma, one problem being the political future of one andrew cuomo, the man in the blanket. k. we need to reduce plastic waste in the environment. that's why at america's beverage companies, our bottles are made to be re-made. not all plastic is the same. we're carefully designing our bottles to be one hundred percent recyclable, including the caps. they're collected and separated from other plastics, so they can be turned back into material that we use to make new bottles. that completes the circle, and reduces plastic waste. please help us get every bottle back. start your day with secret. secret stops sweat 3x more than that completes the circle, and reduces plastic waste. ordinary antiperspirants. the new provitamin b5 formula is gentle on skin. with secret, outlast anything! no sweat. secret. this is a no-nonsense message from three. small business insurance usually doesn't cover everything you need. it's long on pages. short on coverage. that's why three was created. it covers your entire business in just one policy. because small business owners have enough on their hands. so go with three and leave those old policies in the dust. sawdust. technically. don't interrupt the spokesperson. this commercial is now over. logo. three. no nonsense. just common sense. >> the president as the head of the democratic party, what message is he sending by not calling on the new york governor to resign. >> like everyone who continues to read stories werks find them troubling. the president finds them troubling, hard to read. and every woman who steps forward needs to be treated with dignity and respect. >> on this subject, one of the women accusing new york governor andrew cuomo has now spoken with the new york attorney general at length. charlotte bennett's lawyer said she answered questions via zoom for four hours today. bennet accused cuomo of inappropriate advances. calls for his resignation grew louder today amid new reports his appointed vaccine czar has been calling around to state democrats to gauge their loyalty to cuomo. still with us are david plouffe and matt k. lewis. matt, the polls in new york are interesting to watch, though not dispositive certainly. 50% of respondents say, no, the governor should not resign. 35%, yes. a hefty 15% with no opinion. hard to believe in new york. should that be his barometer? >> well, look i think we have to separate the moral and ethical question from the political question. if i'm advising him in purely mac vil yan terms, i say stay right where you are. ralph northam had a similar turn of events where everybody was calling on him to resign, telling him he had to get out. unlike al franken, ralph northam just stayed in office. and now, see the problem with resigning is that becomes the last word on you, right? that is the first -- that becomes the first line in your obituary. if you stay put and ride this thing out, again, i'm, you know, as a conservative, i am not -- i have an agenda here where i shouldn't really be giving advice even to the democrats. but i think that history has shown, actually, that the better bet is not stepping down. so, i think that smart politicians, like governor cuomo, have learned that lesson. >> to david plouffe, who modestly refers to himself as a former practitioner, how big a problem is this for your party, especially considering he is head of the national governor's association right now? >> i don't think it's a problem for the party. i think this is -- while it is getting national attention, we're talking about it today, i think it's concentrated on new york. i think what will happen here, brian, there may be more revelations. this is about andrew cuomo. long past the point where people couldn't take it anymore. he'll stick. he's got a constitution. he likes to give out pain, it's well recorded, but i also think he can take it. but i think what's looming is a primary next year. so, the polls look at the general election. the question will be if andrew cuomo believes that he might lose a primary, that would be the last word. and he doesn't want to lose a primary. so, if he begins to wobble a little bit, you may see him say i'm not going to resign but i'm not going to run again as a way to put this frenzy about whether he's going to resign or not down. but also so he doesn't lose a primary. as much as he doesn't want to resign, i think the thing he probably fears most is to limp into a primary next year and get beat. >> david, i'm already telling you we're going to have you on to continue to discuss your first answer to my first question tonight. in light of texas and 42 other states, in light of the danger you see to our democracy, to our viewers, i commend to your attention matt lewis' latest piece in "the daily beast," "time for the other 49 states to bow down to west virginia," the mansion of glory, that man, the currently very powerful most of the time democratic senator from west virginia, joe manchin. it's a thought provoking piece. that's also by way of saying, gentlemen, we could do this all night. david plouffe, matt lewis, greatly appreciated. important updates on the investigation into the insurrection, which has been almost ten weeks ago now. 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[ "could have been me" by the struts playing ] ♪ don't wanna wake up on a monday morning ♪ ♪ the thought of work's getting my skin crawling ♪ hey, mercedes? -how can i help you? ♪ i can't fear you, i don't hear you now ♪ ♪ wrapped in your regret ♪ ♪ what a waste of blood and sweat ♪ ♪ oh oh oh ♪ ♪ could have been me ♪ the 2021 e-class. motortrend's 2021 car of the year. ♪ ♪ is skincare from around the world better than olay? olay regenerist faced 131 premium products, from 12 countries, over 10 years. olay's hydration was unbeaten every time. face anything. find out more at olay.com my name is trisha. i'm 70 and i live in mill valley, california. my biggest passion is gardening. i love to be outdoors. i have jaybirds that come when i call. i know how important it is to feed your body good nutrition. i heard about prevagen and i heard about the research behind it. taking prevagen, i have noticed that i can think clearly. my memory is better. i can say that prevagen is one of the most outstanding supplements i've ever taken. prevagen. healthier brain. better life. two men have been arrested and charged with assaulting capitol hill police officer brian sicknick on january 6th. court documents say video footage shows the two men working together to hit member of law enforcement with what is believed to be bear spray. it's a toxin. officer sicknick died a day after the riot. so, back with us tonight is frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director for counter intelligence. also happens to be author of the new book "the fbi way: inside the bureau's code of excellence." frank, i'd like to get to the sicknick case specifically in just a moment. but knowing about your book and knowing something about how former feds and current feds keep in touch and text threads among you, i know that you're in touch with your fbi brothers and sisters who you served with and those currently on the job. is there any way of expressing to our audience what new territory this is in term of domestic terrorism and how huge a scope of an investigation this is? >> you know, we throw around words like unprecedented, brian, but what i'm hearing is it is unprecedented, and it has become the largest, most active investigation in terms of the breadth and depth of what's going on in each and every field office right now. throw on top of that the newness of this domestic terrorism channel. by newness, i mean the social media volume of data, the speed with which people can transmit threats and hateful rhetoric and the inability to distinguish between aspirational messaging and the person who's actually going to execute on it and then all the legal pandering that's going on about can we monitor this speech, will this be a violation of simple liberties or provety, all of that going on simultaneously. >> i suppose we should be thankful for the intersection of stupidity and hubris that so many of these criminals live streamed the crimes they were committing in real time. though, to your point, it leaves us with a mountain of electronic evidence, which brings us to the case of now former officer sicknick. why no charge of manslaughter or attempted manslaughter, attempted murder, murder in this case? it is so far merely at the charge of assault. >> so far is the operative phrase here, brian. you've got that right. and that's because they are still waiting for more evidence. what does more evidence look like? it means an autopsy or medical examiner's report that might get into extreme detail about the level of toxic spray in officer sicknick's system. was it a lethal dose? did he have an underlying condition like asthma or some pre-existing thing that would have exacerbated massive exposure to bear spray. i say bear spray because in the charging document, the two suspects referred to it as bear -- actually expletive deleted -- but it's the word that describes what bears do in the woods typically, so they certainly refer to it as bear spray. and that's what it appears to be. what's the significance of that, brian? bear spray is propelled out of the canister at 70-miles-an-hour. a direct hit in your face n your eyes, particularly, you're looking at permanent damage at that point. and exposure to that on a steady high speed stream with the volume that exists in a large canister can easily disable a human being, maybe even kill them. if that evidence materializes, don't be surprised if you see an upgrade of the charges to manslaughter or some degree of murder. >> indeed for people who haven't spent time in the west or in the wild, when we toss around this name bear spray, it is a product designed to stop a grizzly in mid charge and bring them down. now, imagine the effect on a human being, a fellow human being. frank figliuzzi. we'll continue to lean on your time and expertise. thank you so much for taking our questions, frank figliuzzi, our guest again tonight. coming up for us, the word from europe is, as we mentioned, pretty devastating, another lockdown. we'll take a look at what it might mean for us on this side of the atlantic after this. thes psst! psst! allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! you're good. 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maybe i have a natural ability. maybe i should have done this instead of running for president. >> last thing before i go, maybe we were blessed to have a president with such a natural ability with these viruses. but seriously, when we count up the top ten moments of the trump presidency, this next one is up there with the worst. the white house briefing room, april 23rd of last year. as of that day, the u.s. death toll was just under 50,000. the virus was in the process of caring up our country. the president was a virus denier, of course. and that was the original big lie, that it was the flu, and it would go away. the pressure on the people around the president to also pretend it wasn't serious was so intense that trump was able to demand the science of people who knew better. starting with that guy, mike pence, who chaired the coronavirus task force. and let's not forget dr. deborah birx, a military veteran who was all about chain of demand. she was cool with whatever her commander in chief said. >> and then i see the disinfectant, when it knocks it out in a minute. is there some way we can do that, by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. >> so much was said and written back then about the look on dr. birx's face. that look was all we got. we apparently didn't deserve more than that. that look didn't stop people showing up in emergency rooms having ingested bleach, or the anti-vaxx population we're living with some day. she said nothing. still on brand, she says in a new interview, you can see how extraordinarily uncomfortable i was. frankly, i didn't know how to handle that episode. i still think about it every day. here's the part we think about every day. the death toll in america, which as of tonight stands at 538,091. don't worry about dr. birx. she's enjoying a soft landing in the private sector. abc news reports she's joined the board of a pharmaceutical company. and since we know you have a choice in air filtration products, please know she's the chief medical and science adviser for active pure technologies. dr. birx, to take us off the air tonight. with it, that's our broadcast on this monday evening as we start a new week with you. thanks for being here with us. on behalf of all of my colleagues at nbc news, good night. and they tried to do in the most low-key possible way. they tried to take all of the heat out of it. no fireworks, nothing to see here. this is just a little administrative hoo-ha, no big deal. you don't even need to write an article about this. definitely don't need to talk about it on tv. we're not trying to make a stir. but, you know, it is a big deal. they have finally cleaned it up. six months ago, almost six months ago exactly, "the new york times" published a couple of exposes about somet

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