Good morning. This hearing will come to order. Let me just say im really looking forward to this one. I was telling the witnesses, i have read all the testimony. And i generally do that as best of my ability. Sometimes the testimony before this committee can be a little dry. And as im reading late at night it will put me to sleep. Not so in this case whatsoever. I think the testimony was fascinating partly because i am somewhat new to this issue. Im going to keep my Opening Statements somewhat brief because i know senator booker would like to make a statement. Im pretty data driven. The data, statistics on this particular problem, the bureau of prisons and our high levels of incarceration rates are pretty stark. In 1980, for example, there were 25,000 people in the federal prison system. Today there is 209,000. Thats 736 increase. Our population only increased 40 . In total, back in 1980, about 500,000 people in prison. Today theres 2. 3 million. We in america have the highest level of incarceration in the world. 716 people per 100,000 population. The next closest was rwanda with 492. I guess my primary comment is when you look at those stark statistics and you see by the way, i appreciate jerome dealer is here from madison, wisconsin. Met with him earlier as part of a group called the nehemiah project. A group of individuals, some of them exoffenders trying to help other people reenter society. I remember during that meeting how many times did i wince. I was told how unbelievable we make former offenders to make reenter societiment the purpose of the hearing is to lay out these realities. Understand what the prison is dealing with is an incredible difficult and complex problem. By the way, the testimony by Charles Samuels, the current director is also a problem. Let me just read from his testimony. The deul fold mission is to protect society by confining offenders in Community Based facilities that are cost efficient and appropriately secure. And to ensure offenders are actively participating in programs that will assist them in becoming law abiding citizens when they return to our communities. Thats a tough task. I was looking at the statistics and saying, boy, were really nailing that one. We really have this problem solved. Were a long way from it. The testimony would be in the federal system we have only a 41 recidivism rate. State and local its over 60 . I guess we can look at that and maybe were doing Something Better on the federal level than state and local. Boy, thats a long way from a successful result. Im sure youll agree with me on that. And im not going to steal ms. Kermins thunder. In the end, i want everyone paying close attention to the quote she will make from thomas mottosbourne because i think it lays out whats at issue and exactly the question we should be asking as a civilized society. With that, i will turn it over to senator tom harper. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Thank you for encouraging us to hold this important hearing. We want to thank all of you for coming as witnesses. My day job before i came here was i was privileged to be governor of delaware for eight years. In delaware we dont have sheriff jails, county jails or city jails. We have a state correctional system. We have one for adults and we have one for juveniles. My second term as governor, mcavi came to delaware. He was at the time the nations drug czar. Because we were doing pretty good job in terms of reducing recidivism by half, about 75 to maybe 40 . He wanted to find out how we were doing it. He brought with him an abc camera crew with him as well. Ill never forget before he actually went into the prison and looked at the program to see how it worked, we met with about 50 inmates. And we got in a room much smaller than this room. And they all had their white garb, the general and myself. I had been to middle schools, churches, ball games. I had an idea of who some of them were. They knew who i was. I said to the guys before we got started on the program part of the tour. I said to these 50. Most of them, i dont know, 19, 20, 21, 22 years old. I said, how did you end up getting here . What happened in your lives or didnt happen in your lives that got you here. About five or six stood up and they all told stories that were very similar. Very similar. I was born before i was born when my mom was young. I never knew my dad. I ended up in kindergarten. Other kids could read. They knew their letters. They knew their numbers. I couldnt. I got into first grade. And i started falling behind. In the second grade, third grade, fourth grade falling further behind. About the fourth grade i said i realize if i just acted up in class and be a real nuisance the teacher would stop calling on me. And so he put his head down, stayed out of trouble. And he said eventually, though, i would be put out in the hall. By the fifth or sixth grade. Finally, when i was in the seventh or eighth grade i was suspended from school. For a while he said i liked that because i was no longer embarrassed by how little i knew. And he said when i was in ninth grade i got expelled. I found myself on the outside. Everybody wants to be popular. If youre a good athlete, you can be popular in school f. Youre smart you can be popular in school. If youre good with girls, you can be popular in school. He said i was none of those. He said the only way i could feel good about myself was to take drugs or to consume alcohol. When i did that, i felt good about myself. He said i didnt have any ability to pay for those things. I ended up in the life of crime. And i ended up in this place. Everyone told the same story. Same story. And the commissioner of corrections for me at the time, dante lore, wonderful guy. Wonderful guy. He used to say to me, we can 95 , 98 of the people that are incarcerated in our state will be released back into our society. And we can send them back out into society as better people, better parents, or better criminals. And he said its our choice. Its our choice. Its a choice for the inmate themselves. Were big on new causes in this community. Im big on new causes in this community. If we take young men, young women, not so young men and women and actually do something about their addictions while theyre incarcerated, thats helpful. If we do something about the lack of education, thats helpful. The work skills, to get up in the morning and have a job to go to, thats helpful. All the above. All the above. We can learn a lot from the state. We can learn a lot from one another. Today were going to learn from you. And we look forward to this very much. I want to thank you for suggesting that we be here. Lets have a good hearing. Thank you. Thanks, senator carper. Under my written Opening Statement of the record w. That, senator booker. I want to start by expressing my gratitude to the Ranking Member and the chairman for having this hearing. It has been probably the best experience ive had in the United States senate since i began about 18, 19 months ago to find such bipartisan willingness to deal with issues of justice in our country. Its extraordinary from my hour meeting with chairman grassly yesterday to be able to sit with you today, chairmen, to see this bipartisan willingness to confront the wrongs in our country that surround criminal justice and determination to do something about it. Let me just interject before you go on. We talked about this earlier. I was going to do a field hearing on high levels of incarceration. We didnt do it on that subject because this is so complex. And it was difficult to design the hearing so it wouldnt be inflammatory. Yes. So, again, i appreciate you working with me so we hold this first one here. Again, this will be the first in a series. Yes. We held a hearing on school choice, which starts really at the beginning part of this time spectrum in terms of not providing a proper education. And it ends up leading to this result in terms of prison. But, again, i appreciate your willingness to work with me on this. Im hoping at some point in time we can move this discussion into different areas. This is pretty relevant. One of them certainly would be in milwaukee. Im grateful to you. We had countless conversations now about criminal Justice Reform. And your eagerness, willingness, sincere desire to do something about it has been really encouraging to me in my early months in the senate. Im thankful for that and this opportunity to be here today. It is a movement now in our country to do something about it. We have the president of the United States willing to visit a prison, being the first person to do so. We see that is a part of our culture. As a christian, it says in the bible matthew 25, when i was hungry you gave me something to eat. When i was thirsty you gave me something to drink. When i was in prison, you came to visit me. The understanding that our criminal Justice System is not about fear and retribution guided by principles of justice, fairness and ultimately redemption. To me that is the american way. But unfortunately we have gone in the way that is so far cuts against our common values and our ideals. This age of mass incarceration on a whole is violating our Core Principles in so many areas. To have us as we proclaim to be the land of freedom and liberty. But to have one every four imprisoned people here in the United States of america even though we have 4 to 5 of our population runs contrary to our core ideals. To do this at such a massive expense to the tax payer in necessarily egregious expenditures where we spend a quarter trillion dollars a year incarcerating human beings, many of whom do not need to be incarcerated at the lengths they are runs against our values. When we see our infrastructure crumbling in this country, yet we have the resources between 1990 and 2005 to build a new prison in the United States every 10 days. It runs against our fiscal prudence and our values as a nation. When we see poor people being ground up into a system but for the fact that they dont have the resources for the liberation that we have a modern day debtors prison in our country that runs contrary to our common values. We now are at a point in our country where we have literally almost one out of three americans between 75 and 100 million americans have an arrest record. If we were to go back to revolutionary times and tell them there would be a government in this land seizing the liberty of almost one in three people, we would have definitely sparked that revolutionary spirit. Now is the time we need a revolution when it comes to issues of crime and punishment. Now, the chairman was very clear, and i think its important to restate, this is a narrow hearing about one specific aspect to begin a process of looking for reforms. Please know if you look at just our bureau of prisons, our federal prison population has expanded 800 since 1980. The bureau of prisons now has 200,000 inmates and it is 35 to 40 over in capacity. Employs nearly 40 how people. And last year in fiscal 2014 the bureau of prisons enacted budget totaled an astonishing 6. 9 billion. Just working on transportation and Commuter Rail seeing the fraction of that were debating over when were spending this much. This bureau of prisons is now 25 of the department of justice discretionary budget. In my very first meeting with attorney general holder he actually talked about the urgent crisis he faces, taking money away from things we should be invest anything for Homeland Security for our protection overall as a citizen because of this massive explosion. The bureau of prisons is so large it is absolutely critical that we in congress, this committee, exercise our oversight to ensure tax payer dollars are spent wisely especially in light of what many states are showing, that you can reduce your prison populations dramatically, saving taxpayer dollars and lowering crime at the same time. So make no mistake. I as a mayor learn you have to make sure when a crime is committed there is a punishment. And people get a proportional punishment. They just do not make in any way economic sense as well. So im grateful for this hearing. There are some areas i think we really need to drill down that are in the small areas we can make improvements in that can make a big difference. One is solitary confinement. Segmented Housing Units is a practice that many people, medical professionals, human rights activists, civil rights activists consider torture pause of its impact. To use it on an inmate results in serious psychological harm. The constitution ality was questioned saying it will bring you to the edge of madness, perhaps madness itself. The medical community confirms that reality. It is time that the federal government were acts a model to ending this practice of solitary confinement. Congress gave the courts the authority to release prisoners early for extraordinary compelling reasons. Known as compassionate release. The bureau of prisons has the ability to release prisoners now that are facing imminent death or serious incapacitation. The data is clear on this population. They are not a threat to our safety and community. They are costing tax payers extraordinary amounts of money. This is a Compassionate Release Program that is properly named and should be explored. Attorney general holder issued guidelines to allow the bureau of prisons to expand the pool of applicants who may be considered for compassionate release. This is something we should look at. Finally, i hope we can explore what the bureau of prisons provides to those that are the least of these and our society. Those that are often marginalized. Im specifically talk building those suffering from Mental Health challenges and drug addictions. Right now states across america are struggling to control a growing heroin epidemic. Many people are finding themselves addicted in a federal system that does not adequately treat them. The bureau of prisons must find a way to assist inmates struggling with addiction and Mental Health. Again, i want to thank you, chairman. This is a hearing i have been very excited about. I want to thank our witnesses. I especially want to thank Charles Samuels who met with me personally. I have had great conversations with. His tenure is actually coming to an end. But he is a dedicated public servant. Thanks. We all want to thank the witnesses and welcome them. It is is the tradition to swearing witnesses. If you all rise and will raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony you will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole treating and nothing but the truth so help you god. I do. Thank you. Please be seated. Our first welcome is ms. Piperkermin, author of orange is the new black. She is a board member of the womens prison association. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, and members of the committee, i appreciate you inviting me here today. In my memoir i account in detail the 13 months i spent incarcerated in the federal prison sentence with most of my time served at the federal institution in danbury, connecticut. I have worked with many women and men who are returned citizens like me. And we all want to get back on our feet, to reclaim our rights of citizenship and to make positive contributions to our communities. Our experiences are essential to understanding the reform thats needed in our criminal Justice System so it will provide for Public Safety in a way that is legal and humane and sensible. And thats why im here today. Women are the Fastest Growing population in the american criminal Justice System. And their families and communities are increasingly affected by what happens to women behind bars. According to the bureau of justice statistics, 63 of women in prison are there for a nonviolent offense. Many are incarcerated due to Substance Abuse and Mental Health issues which are overwhelmingly prevalent in prisons and jails. And the rate of sexual abuse and other physical violence that women experienced prior to incarceration is staggering. Female prisoners suffer these problems at greater rates than male prisoners. And these experiences are relevant both to their crimes and to their incarceration. But the issues are not being adequately addressed by the bureau of prisons. The research on criminal justice involved women and girls shows the risk factors i mentioned require different approaches in order to reduce womens recidivism and result in successful reentry. This is not like findings in other feelings like health care, where women experience heart attack symptoms very differently from men and their treatment needs differ. This understanding has saved womens lives. The bureau of prisons should adapt gender responsive correctional approaches that interrupt cycles of unnecessary suffering. States Like Washington provide a road map to do this successfully. When i was locked up in danbury, i knew women who were trying to raise their children during brief reunions in the visitors room while depending off Sexual Harassment and struggling with addiction and trying to get a High School Education so that when they got out, they stood some chance of surviving despite their felony conviction. I saw women in bureau of prisons denied necessary medical care and women with Mental Health issues wait for months to see the one psychiatrist who was available for 1,400 women. And thats unimaginable in a system where at least 65 of women experience some kind of Mental Illness. Equally shocking were the mandatory reentry classes inmates took to prepare to leave prison. I attended one on housing, which was led by a man who worked in construction in the prison. And the mostly poor and overwhelming minority women who release. He had, however, played professional baseball for a brief time and hence his expertise on the health topic. Many of danburys policies were questionable. But it was relatively close to home for most of the women who were serving time there. Families could visit. Children could see their mothers. Many of whom were raising their kids on their own before being sent to prison. Yet the bop refused to believe this when it changed to a mens facility. This was beyond the stated goal of no more than 500 miles from home. It has deprived many programming such as men enjoy, unicore employment or residential drug and alcohol treatment program, which not only is one of the most effective programs they have but is one of the only ways to earn a sentence reduction in the bureau. It is worth noting that the desire to empty that prison of women caused the bureau of prisons to examine prisoner sentences and exercise its discretion granted by the Second Chance act signed into law in 2008 by president bush. Hundreds of women were reassigned to complete their sentences in Halfway Houses or even in home confinement. And while briefly exercised in the case of danbury fci, the bop has not used its authority under the act to safely reduce the federal prison population and return as many prisoners as possible to their communities. The bop should place all eligible prisoners in Halfway Houses or home confinement at the earliest possible dates and should use compassionate release and sentence reduction programs. And this would help relieve the persistent overcrowding and keep staff and prisoners safer while reducing costs. Finally, the bop must be led by individuals who value the role of communities and families in rehabilitation and understand the particular needs of women. We appreciate the service of director samuels, and he leaves at the end of this year. He should be replaced by a leader who is committed to enacting these values into policy. I urge the administration to look outside of the existing Bureau Leadership for strong canned datz who will make the bop a model system driven by innovation and creativity. I close with the words of the legendary reformer and warden of sing sing prison thomas mottosbourne who asked, shall our prisons be scrap heaps or human repair shops . Today with the biggest prison population in Human History here in the United States, we must insist on a different answer to this question. Thank you. Thank you. Our next witness is mr. Jerome dillard for dane county, wisconsin. He served as director of voices beyond bars, a group aimed at helping former inmates transitioning into community by offering employment and computer classes. I just want to thank you for traveling here from wisconsin for your testimony. Thank you, senator johnson. In opening, i want to thank this committee for having me. I want to thank you, senator johnson, and my other senator from wisconsin, tammy baldwin, for having me sit before you today. I sit here as a formerly incarcerated citizen who served time in both federal and state prison systems. My crimes were nonviolent driven by a long history of drug addiction. While doing time in prison, i witnessed the system that was ballooning with predominantly young africanamericans serving long prison sentences, 10, 20, 30 years for drug crimes. This was troubling to me, seeing so many young men losing the prime of their lives to the criminal Justice System. It was while doing time i made a strong determination that i will do all i can to stay out of our prison system. I have been out roughly 19 years now. And i have had the opportunity to share my own journey of recovery at correctional centers, educational institution, conferences and in the community. Giving my personal account how peer support directly aided in the success of my recovery in regards to Substance Abuse and Mental Health. We often dont think of the formerly incarcerated citizens is as work being done to address the issues of incarceration. The power of peerled groups and organizations provide so many essentials needed for the successful reentry of individuals returning to our communities. And inhouse prison support network of this type would be helpful for the process of rehabilitation. Some of the barriers to creating this sense of Community Opposition from the bureau of prisons and the state prisons staff with fostering that us and them mentality. Real cultural training would be a value in all prison systems. I want to say in the work that i do i realize that the barriers are tremendous. Individuals returning to the community from state and federal prisons are often faced with huge amounts of debt, Child Support, restitution, supervision fees and on and on. Real barriers to individuals who are often times subjected to the lower paying Jobs Available in our communities. I was given an opportunity to work in a Mental Health aoda prison in our state. This is a unique facility that invaluable because they provided Mental Health and care on an individualized basis. What i witnessed there and the programming that went on there i cant say enough about. Because traumas are so prominent with this population. As i talked to these men, many and often i asked how many men had their fathers in their lives. The majority of teams these individuals would say, my father was in prison or i dont know my father and i was raised by the streets. These are some of the traumas, even fatherlessness is a trauma that usually goes unaddressed. And for those in our inner cities, they are humongous, they are huge. In the time that i have, i really cant elaborate on many of the things i would ike to say. But im going to say this in closing. In working with our incarcerated and formerly incarcerated citizens over a decade now, i am beginning to see a shift in confronting mass incarceration. Its an issue that both Political Parties agree on. Americas addiction to mass incarceration is not working. Its costly. It does not restore people. And i personally feel that the climate is right and the ground is fertile for real criminal Justice Reform. The modern wore on drugs produced an overall population that remains unprecedented in world history. At the federal level, the growth and the incarceration rate has been even greater and more sustained than in the states. I am encouraged by some of the initiatives that are taking place on the local level and many states and counties. In my county, we are work to go address the Racial Disparities and reduce the number of those incarcerated at all levels of the criminal Justice System. And great works are being done addressing these problems. And i feel that addressing these problems require far more tinkering with the sentencing policies of nonviolent offenders or revamping prison programs. To achieve a reasonable level of incarceration we will need to substantially reduce both the numbers of people admitted to prison and the length of their sentences. In making a suggestion i would like to say to the department of the bop, to continue to solicit feedback from people who are serving time so they can require programming to the prison population. The bop programming needs to match labor market data about high growth industries. It also needs to be specific to the regions. And last of all, the bop needs to advocate for congress to allow more merit time, Early Release, and incentives for Good Behavior or programming. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Dillard. Mr. Ofer is with the American Civil Liberties union in new jersey. Through his work at the aclu he worked on the state level to work a blueprint to reduce the prison population in new jersey. Bail reform take place in 2015. And is estimated to reduce the population in new jersey by 8,500 inmates. Mr. Ofer. Thank you, chairman johnson, Ranking Member carper. Im the executive director of the American Civil Liberties union of new jersey. It is my honor and privilege to be here on behalf of the aclu and more than 1 million of our supporters living across the United States, including in new jersey. Todays hearing comes at a critical moment in our nations history when there is a rare opportunity to take bold action on criminal Justice Reform. Republicans and democrats alike are taking a second look at our nation as criminal Justice System. And republicans and democrats alike are becoming much more pragmatic and much less ideological in their approach to criminal justice. Following decades of punitive policies that sent millions to prison and devastated communities, particularly low income communities of color, americans are now realizing that our nation as prisons and jails have grown too big and that all too often the people who end up in prison suffer from drug addiction and Mental Illness and should not be incarcerated in the first place. We know the story of our nations incarcerated population. Our nations jails and prisons hold 2. 3 Million People on any given day. The federal prison population has increased from 25,000 prisoners in 1980 to more than 207,000 today. And all of this comes as an annual cost to tax payers of tens of thousands of dollars. But the costs have far more severe consequences than simply the fiscal responses necessary to 25 of the worlds prisoners in 5 of the world population. The true costs are human lives. And particularly generations of young black and latino men who serve long prison sentences and are lost to their families and to their communities. And the fact is that africanamericans and latinos are disproportionately engulfed in our criminal Justice System. It is time for a change. We are at a crossroads as americans need to realize we need reform in our criminal Justice Systems. With this in mind i come before you today to urge you to seize this opportunity to reform prison practices, reduce the in carl rated population and create a system that is smarter, a system that is fair, and a stamm that is more costeffective. And at the top of any reform of federal prison practices must be the issue of solitary confinement. Approximately 5 of federal prisoners are in solitary confinement. That means on any given day, 11,000 people in federal prisons, 11,000 people, are confined to a 6 x 9 cell and deprived of basic human contact with little to no Natural Light and minimal if any constructive activity for 22 to 24 hours a day. In some federal facilities the average time that a prisoner sits in continuous solitary confinement is four years. You need to look no further than the front page of todays section of the New York Times. Its the signs not the politics section, to get a better understanding of the mental and physical consequence of longterm solitary confinement. According to a recent independent review of the federal prison system solitary system, there are major problems. Federal prisons send thousands of seriously mental ill individually into solitary confinement. People who should be receiving treatment not sitting in the hole. And federal prisons use solitary and close to 1,400 people who are there for protective custody. But instead are subjected to virtually the same as those in solitary for punishment. What can we do about this . Well, there are many small important steps the bureau can take today and that are outlining the independent review. Yet the truth is if although we take today are small steps then we will have lost this historic moment for bold change. Now is the time for historic change. Solitary confinement has no place in american prisons. Physical separation may sometimes be necessary for safety and for security but isolation is not. Therefore, we call on the bureau of prisons and we call on the congress to resolve this issue once and for all. First, its time to abolish the use of solitary confinement for persons under the age of 18 and for persons with Mental Illness. Senator cory booker and rand paul already introduced legislation, the redeem act, which would prohibit the use of solitary confinement on juveniles. We fully support this legislation. Second, for all other prisoners, the bureau should abolish periods of solitary confinement for periods longer than 15 days. It will lead to a smarter and more humane system and reduce recidivism rates. Finally, a couple of quick words about new jersey. Given the focus of this hearing on bop practices, the lessons from new jersey are not directly a applicable but they are worth mentioning. We are not a perfect model. We have terrible solitary confinement practices but there are things we have done well n. 1999, the incarceration population peaked at 21,000. There has been a 31 reduction in a decade and a half. We achieved it through numerous policies with the biggest being changing a harsh mandatory minimum and a decrease in the number of parolees returning for technical violations. As mentioned by senator johnson, we have recently had a major victory in a by patterson manner working with governor christie to overhaul the state as bail system which will lead to thousands fewer in jail because they are poor. The bipartisan commitment to criminal Justice Reform is as strong as it will ever be. Aclu urges congress to take a bold action to adopt our recommendations which would help to increase fairness and justice at every stage of the system. Thank you. Thank you, mr. Ofer. And i do want to stress, you mentioned the word bipartisan a number of times, which is true. Some of the folks of this committee has been describing problems and look for the areas. This is something we have broad agreement on. This system isnt working. We have to take a look at the facts and admit that harsh and stark reality. Ms. Kirman, you have a unique story here. You didnt spend much time on your story. Maybe more people involved in pop culture. If you could quickly describe what you were put in prison for. And at the tail end i would also like you to tell me what do you think your punishment should have been. Thank you for your question, senator johnson. I was when i was in my early 20s, which is a typical risk time for folks to be involved with crime or commit a crime, i was involved in a relationship with someone involved with narcotics. And i carried a bag of money from chicago to brussels in support of a Drug Trafficking enterprise. I voluntarily left that situation. You know, good sense kicked in. I was very fortunate. I had a College Degree already. I had many benefits and privileges. So i was able to return to the United States and to get my life back on track and to put any involvement in crime behind me. Many years past before i was indicted in the federal system and ultimately i was sent to prison 10 years after i committed my offense. I pled guilty to my crime very swiftly. I was very fortunate to only serve 13 months of a 15month sentence. One of the things that was so striking to me the very first day that i spent in prison was that so many of the women that i was incarcerated with, who i would spend a great deal of time with, were serving much harsh sentences than i was. And as the days and the weeks and the months went on and i came to know those other women really well, it was impossible for me to believe that their crimes were so much more serious than mine. In fact, the only conclusion i could draw is they had been treated much more harshly by the american criminal Justice System than i had been treated because of socioeconomic reasons, differences in class, and in some cases because of the color of their skin. I left the custody of the bureau of prisons in 2005. I had two years of supervised release, probation which i completed successfully. When i reflect on the punishment for my crime, i certainly cannot protest it when i think about the harshness with which poor people and poor people of color are treated in this country. Its hard, however, to believe there was a lot of social benefit to the committee drawn from my incarceration. It prevented no new crimes. I think particularly when we consider the puts we meted out for drug offenses we have to reflect upon the mandatory minimum sentencing laws generally in the mid80s. I think it was to curb Substance Abuse and addiction and some of the crimes that grow out of Substance Abuse and addiction. Today, many decades after we passed those laws, we put millions and millions of americans in prison and saddled them with felony convictions. And today illegal narcotics are cheaper, they are more potent and they are had he more easily available than when we put mandatory minimum sentencing laws on the books and incarcerated all of those people n. Terms of cushing Substance Abuse and addiction, those laws are a failure and locking people up for drug offenses, particularly lowlevel nonviolent drug offensesis a waste of time and money. I wanted to you to answer the final question. I agree. Its not working. Theres two reasons for prison, punishment and deterrent. What type of punishment is appropriate and would deter people from, for example, trafficking drugs to young people. Which is pretty damaging for society. What would be the alternative . Have you given it any thought . I think a very appropriate part of my punishment if not confined to prison, working with people who are addicted drugs and with families suffering from the ravages of addiction. What i experienced while i was incarcerated is intense close friendships with women whose lives had been devastated by Substance Abuse and addiction. And that really brought home to me the harm of my own actions. And i think thats one of the most appropriate ways to deal with those kinds of hammers. Good answer. Very briefly, because i want to get to mr. Dillard as well. The other women in prison, in general, were they there for just basically drug crime. In both state and federal systems but overwhelmingly in the federal system women are incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses and property crimes. In the federal system, i think if any member of this committee had the opportunity to meet the hundreds of women that i did time with, you would probably walk away from getting to know those women with a deep feeling that their confinement in a prison cell or a prison facility was just a colossal waste and not an appropriate way of intervening in the things that put them into the criminal Justice System. Thank you. Mr. Dillard, obviously we met in discussions about the difficulty of reentering society after you served your time. Talk about the challenges. I mean, you were talking about the huge debt levels. Youre sitting in prison. Your Child Support just continues to build. And then you get out. Its very difficult to find a job. One of the things im working with senator booker is on banning the box for federal employees. To give people the opportunity to get a job. But even if you get a job, a lot are entry level. They dont pay a whole lot. We expect people to get out of prison and to all of a sudden start paying a off the debts. Describe what happens when theyre unable to. Well, the fact is, when youre facing with these barriers, and i too came home faced with many barriers, the fact is i had support. I had individuals who kept me encouraged. And i had someone to give me analogy. And that was putting a little bit behind you at a time. I was fortunate to be able to obtain a living wage employment about a year and a half after being out. That was helpful. After 13 years i finally got a tax return. And that analogy of putting the debt behind you a little bit at a time is something that i teach to young men today. The fact is many of our young people have ties to the criminal Justice System. And theres so much hopelessness that comes with being tied to the criminal Justice System that often they feel there is no place for them in the workforce. Application after application, turndown after turndown because, in many instances, of your criminal convictions. Individuals go into hopelessness. From there addiction can raise its ugly head. Hustling. Or just becoming part of the norm in many of the communities that have had to result to these things. Again, in our meeting, one of the issues we were talking with spoke that not paying Child Support ends up being a parole violation. Yes. Which lands you right back in jail, correct . Which costs us 33,000 for a male prisoner. And i think its about 50,000 for a female prisoner. So, again, these enormous challenges trying to reintegrate in society, get a job. Then when youre unable to pay off your Child Support, which again we all want people to be responsible and pay for their children, but then you land right back in jail. Is that thats what i heard. Is that basically true . Well, in some cases. But the fact is Child Support continues to accumulate even while youre doing time. I had a gentleman who was released from 15 years. 60,000, 70,000 in debt with Child Support. Along with all of the other things that came. The only employment that he could find was working in a Fast Food Restaurant at a minimum wage. And after taking home his second paycheck, he was like, i cant make it like this. I just cant. You know, over 40 of his check was being taken before he even got it. And you know, thats a discouragement really for him to continue working at a minimum wage position and not be able to pay rent or have transportation. Okay. Thank you mr. Dillard. Im out of time. Senator carper. Chairman said a few minutes ago that the two reasons for prisons, punishment and deterrence and i would say there is one more and that is to try to correct behavior so when people come out they are less likely to resid vat and return to our prison. I mention earlier, when i was governor for the second term and his words still ring true today, the overwhelming majority of people incarcerated are going to come out some day. They are not there for ever. They come back into the society and communities and they could come out as better people or better criminals. And cory booker or senator booker alluded to a moral imperative that we face, whether people of faith or not, he alluded to matthew 25, when i was hungry and when i was thirsty, when i was naked and when i was sick and in prison, did you come and see me. Ive been to every prison in delaware. We transformed the school, which was a juvenile prison into a real school and ive given this matter huge amounts of time and thought over the time that i was there and even now. And the National Governors association we used to say, i would say to my cabinet when we had meetings dealing with a particular issue, i would say somebody, some governor in some state has dealt with this issue and figured out how to deal with it and we have to find that governor and work on who faced that challenge in that state. A lot of what weve talked about here, somebody has done something good and could serve as a model. States are laboratories for democracy. And before we go off for the bureau of prisons just starting from scratch, we need to look around our country and say, well what are states doing some things really well . Our state we changed the juvenile prison into a real school. In our state we decide and when we had people in prison, were going to have them for a while, why not work on educational schools an create a school within the prisons to work with them on drug addictions, to give them an opportunity for whatever faith they might be and to actually exercise their faith, learn about their faith, to prepare for transformation, to learn skills, whether it is upgrading computers, whether it is building furniture, whether it is learning auto repair and to take the whole fleet for the state of delaware and the car fleet and basically provided maintenance in the prison system to the people have at least that kind of skill when they walked out. What i would like to do is ask each of you to give us one terrific example could be in a state or a local correctional system, one terrific example within the system and the prison itself or frankly without, because if we dont do better job on the early side, the Early Childhood side and so forth, were not really going after the root cause. But just give us one good example. Could be in the correctional system, it could be before, it could be after release, do you think we ought to really drill down and try our best to emulate. Thank you, missker man. Thank you, senator carper. I currently teach nonfiction writing in two state prisons in ohio and one is a mens medium security prison it. Was built for 14 someone men and currently houses 2600 men. It is led by a young warden who was trained as a social worker at osu. He does things differently than ever prison ive step foot inside. The prison has more lifers than any other prison in the state of ohio. It has it is one of two prisons with the lowest violence rate in that prison. So that is a big change over time in that facility. That warden and his predecessors have done a great job of making that a much safer prison. And that warden has and his staff have a tremendous amount of rehabilitation programming of every sort, whether it is vocation vocational, educational or spiritual. One of the programs ever put in place back there in the 1990s was an interfaith dorm where prisoners of different faith would come and live in that dorm for a year and learn how to deal with each other and their differences and go back out into general population as changed agents. That prison is a really interesting place and that wardens philosophy and the philosophy of all of his staff because one man cannot do it all, all of the staff need to be on board for him to do that, is really inspirational, i think. I want to make a note on some of the results that that prison gets, back to udis confinement. Mrs. Kerman, i would like to listen to you for the rest of the morn but i only have two minutes so i would ask you to hold it right there and well have a second round and come back. But i would note this, im an ohio state under grad and one of the things that attracted me to the key west program at our prison that mccaffrey our nation drug czar came to see and helped us to implement that from jimmin sarty out of columbus, ohio and it frankly worked pretty well. Mr. Dillard, same question, give us one great example. Piper has given us one. Give us one as well. Well, i personally feel that the work is on the offenders themselves. And that is when i it was a lifer who really made a difference in my life who spoke life into me and throughout my prison sentence i realized how the older inmates really work with and try to encourage younger the younger ones. I still feel that you cant leave formerly incarcerated citizens out of the equation. Mr. Roper. So im going to give you two quick examples. One is solitary confinement. There are examples of statements that have reduced solitary confinement without causing risk to staff and inmates and a good example is coloradoment in 2011 colorado placed in solitary confinement 7 of the incarcerated population and today it is 1 of the population. Weve seen a dramatic decrease in the use of solitary by banning the use of solitary against vulnerable populations like those with serious Mental Illness and the number of days you can be sent. That is one. And the second is bill reform and what weve done in new jersey and other municipalities are looking at, in new jersey we had 10,000 people sit in jail for awaiting their trial because they couldnt afford a few thousand dollars in bail. Weve revamped that system where your bail on whether you are released pretrial is determined by your Risk Assessment and not by whether you are poor or rich. We believe that change in and of itself will lead to three quarters of the 10,000, to 7,000 to 8,000 fewer people sitting in jail. Before the reform, the average time that a person sat in jail awaiting their trial was 314 days. These are people that are presumed innocent until Proven Guilty and that are being treated like guilty and this is a phenomenon all over the country an that is one of the ways we can dramatically reduce our jail population in the United States. Let me close by saying this. Senator and i talked about the morale imperative we have in this the country to look out for the least of these and we have a fiscal imperative and it is still imperative and hence the need to find out what is working and do more of that and find out what is not working and do less of that. Thank you so much. Thank you senator carper. Before i turn it over to senator booker because you mentioned my name and didnt get it right. I said that jails we jail people to punish and to deter, but then i also fully mentioned the Mission Statement of the bureau of prisons to ensure that the defenders are participating in programs that will assist them in becoming law abiding citis when they return to citizens when they return to the communities and i highlights ms. Kerman, should our prisons be scrap heaps or repair shops. I hope they are human repair shops. So with that, senator booker. Thank you mr. Chairman. Udi, lets jump in real quick. So solitary confinement, can you please describe this. Because as ive had these conversations with friends and others, people think that solitary confinement is a result of someone having done something wrong in prison. And why is solitary confinement so commonplace . Is it because prisoners are doing things wrong, in prison . Well, you know, weve seen as a nation a dramatic increase in the use and reliance on solitary over the last couple of decades. We dont have exact reliable Scientific Data because we have aterirable job of tracking those who are in solitary confinement and it is particularly in response to overcrowding and where prison officials are overwhelmed and the Quick Reaction is to send people too the hole. So we have examples from new jersey and around the country of people being sent to solitary for things like talking back. Ill give you a new jersey example, out of trenton, where an in mate by the name of sean washington in 2013, he was a clerk at the library, and he wanted to leave the library to go bring some legal papers to one of the other inmates but a corrections officer said you cannot leave and the facts are disputed but the worst facts, the facts that the state claims, is that mr. Washington then said mother fer, dont tell me what to do. What was his punishment . 90 days in solitary confinement. That is a real example we see all across the nation. So just for time. So we know that people are being sent to solitary for many Different Reasons and some of them have to do with administrative issues and the like. Right. Does it work in terms of somehow effecting the behavior of prison str any is there any productive value in the bureau of prisons. Im going to push back on the language they use and some people are sent to solitary for administrative reasons and that is a loaded term because the bureau of prisons commonly call solitary administrative segregation and it sowns harmless but in effect it is solitary. And people are sent there for really minor reasons. And some reasons are for protective custody, like i mentioned in my testimony. So for example with the Lgbt Community who faced hassarment from other prisons, a lot of time theyll be sent to involuntary protective custody to protect them from inmate violence yet they are being punished. We see this happening all of the time. And the bureau of prisons, for example, according to you asked what was does it actually work. So recently there was an independent review released pot public in february of this year by cna that looked at solitary practices in the federal prisons and looked at inmate behavior changing following solitary and their response was absolutely no. I would like to pause there. Can we have that report put into the record for this hearing. Without objection, and not only lesbian and gay, but also trans gender. Yes. But let me tell what you the report found because it is important. It looks at inmates disciplinary record 12 months before being sent into solitary and 12 months after coming out of solitary and it found virtually no change whatsoever. So lets get to the New York Times article you held up today, the consensus upon medical experts, what are what is the damage, the trauma, theect on an individual to be in solitary confinement, used shockingly offerage of four years, ive talked to numerous inmates who have experienced that length or more. What is the damage done to someone in general and would you also include in that someone who already has a Mental Health challenge. First of all, when i think of this issue, and to use an example that is contemporary, i think of it similar to Climate Change. There are certain people that deny the signs. But in the Scientific Community there is kons census consensus please dont lose this commit we by talking about Climate Change. Stick to the bipartisan agreement. But i mean there is consensus in the Scientific Community about the harms of skrv and there are two kinds of farms. One is exacerbates preexisting conditions, so Mental Illness that existed is exacerbated and becomes worse and secondly it produced mental and physical illness. Things like anxiety, depression, hypersensitivity to time lie, bipolar disorder, theres have been documents of that. The list is long and im happy to provide the committee with citations to every i think that would be helpful. Ill do that. And first of all i want to say to mr. Dillard and misskerman, it is extraordinary that you are here with the testimony of the experience of people behind bars and that is extraordinary. And mrs. Kerman, in the little bit of time that i have left, drill down on something often not talked about but what is happening as a result of overcrowding. We saw this in danbury when it was converted into a low security mens facility, you were close to your family and im wondering what impact does being in prison in close proximity to loved ones have on an in mate and what impact would gender specific programming have on a womans a ability to successfully recenter and if in the one minute i have left hit on those issues really briefly. Proximity to home, family and community is overwhelmingly important for both men and women who are confined to prison or jail. The opportunity and lets be clear, the majority of women in prison have children and the majority in period are the number one breadwinners for the family before they are in cars rated. Absolutely. The overwhelming number in prison are mothers and most of those mothers are the mothers of minor children, kids under the age of 18, who experienced sort of a seismic impact when their mothers are incarcerated because a lot of the moms are single moms who have primary responsibility for their kids. So the opportunity to touch your children, to hold for your children to be reassured that their mother or their parent is okay is incredibly important both to parent and child. The opportunity to see your own parents or family members to maintain ties to the community broadly considered to which you will almostenefitiablely return, senator johnson is absolutely correct, the vast majority of people who are in prison are coming home from prison. So those life lines to the outside community we cant overstate how important they have to Public Safety, to peoples safe and successful return home to the community. Because when prison when correctional systems, whether it is the b. O. P. Or otherwise, cut the life lines but making visits difficult, by placing people very, very far from their families or by making prisons inaccessible in other ways, by making phone calls skosh tabletly exorbitantly hard or some jails have no contact through glass which is disincentive to have a visit, those life lines are cut and the person incarcerated is much less likely to have both the family support, the safe and stable housing, the access to networks which might help them gain employment, all of which are a primary concern for successful reentry and that is true whether you are talking about men or whether you are talking about women. When we are talking about female prisoners, just very quickly and briefly, we know that the three things that drive womens involvement in crime and their incarceration are Substance Abuse, Mental Illness and again the overwhelming experience of violence, either sexual or physical violence. 80 or more girls in the system report that happening to them before they were incarcerated. So the problem with incarceration, prisons and jails are harsh places by design, is that for prisoners who have experienced very significant trauma like rape, childhood sexual abuse, domestic violence, many of the correctional practices are very reminiscent of some of those abuses and so that creates a serious, serious clal enk in terms of challenge in terms of regular engagement with feel prisoners and in rehabilitation and in terms of again their ability to return home safely. In deference to my colleagues, im over time but thank you for that. Thank you. And when mr. Offer delled into Climate Change, he didnt lose the movement. There has been Climate Change and always will and. And vaccines work, is that correct. Thank you mr. Chairman. At the risk of being embroiled in that side discussion, you know, i was the attorney general in north dakota, spent a lot of time actually, most of the Drug Task Forces were under my jurisdiction and we ran a lot of those and it was at a time when there was a growing concern in 1992 with the drug problem and with more and more Violent Crime. And as a result, we saw incarceration rates really sky rocket because of desperation. And i will tell you this, it has been my experience that we constantly treat the symptoms but never treat the disease. And that is really where we are today, talking about how do we treat the symptoms and not how do we treat the disease. Ill tell you a story about a wise man. I did a juvenile Justice Project where we made it a little easier to transfer kid news the adult system but i traveled around the state of north dakota with a prison warden by the name of winston sat ron. He was a very wise guy and at the time in north dakota, you could interview every prisoner who came into the prison system and he would sit down and he would say tell me about your life. And as he talked they would say my parents were dif officed at 11 and i went to live with my grandma. And he wrote 11, because in his file that prisoner was 11 years old emotionally. And a lot of this is related to trauma and not understanding trauma and we exacerbate by not only not treating the trauma, but engaging in behaviors that further the trauma, whether it is isolation from family, whether it is isolation from any human contact at all. And so lets be honest about the task that this society has imposed on the bureau of prisons. None of this should be any judgment on the bureau of prisons. Weve given them an impossible task. They have to take and prison crowding is part of that. Theyve got to maintain some level of security and there is desperation for solutions as to what they can be. But were here talking about things that are way, way downstream. And were not here talking about things that are upstream. And so the juvenile Justice System, led really by a lot of very enlightened people at the department of justice has really begun a transformation into traumainformed and trauma based therapies. Looking at what can we do to treat trauma and how can we basically prevent a lot of abuse and a lot of abuse is selfmedication. A lot of addiction is chemical, i get it, i get that is maybe the old model, but a lot of it is selfmedicating for the trauma experienced in peoples lives. And so with all of that, i would like to know how we could design a system of prevention so we dont see more people what would you all in your experience like to see in communities that would prevent the out comes were seeing in the bureau of prisons and we can start you with mrs. Kerman. I think it seems there is a tremendous amount of recognition, thank you for the question senator heitkamp, that Substance Abuse and Mental Health problems including full blown Mental Illness and the every day demons that many people suffer at some point in their lives contribute to peoples bad choices and breaking the law. And so a significant commitment to handle those Health Problems in the Public Health system as often as possible rather than can i just ask quickly, of the woman that you worked with and were incarcerated with, how many of them were given a choice of drug court or some kind of intermediate kind of intervention . Yeah. That is very rare in the federal system. That is much more common in state systems or county systems of justice. And so there is a program in new york called justice home where women facing at least a year of incarceration when their District Attorney and their judge agree, are able to enter this program called justice home. They stay at home, generally with their children, and are face a set of Accountability Measures but also get the Mental Health intervention or the Substance Abuse intervention and the Parenting Classes or the Vocational Training or whatever is specific to their case that is needed for them to get better out comes. In new york it cost 60,000 a year to incarcerate somebody and that program cost 17,000 a year. If we threw in the cost of foster care for a family with two children, the cost would amount to 129,000 a year. Thank you. So that is a good example. Mr. Dillard. Thank you for your observation senator heitkamp. Trauma informed care is truly something that is needed if were going to be preventive. I can use myself as an example of someone who had traumas at the age of 12, 13 years old who walked around with them for 35 years, never addressed and im just bearing them. When i was diagnosed, i was severely depressed most of my life. One of the reasons that i selfmedicated with illegal drugs, had i been diagnosed maybe i could have been given legal drugs and avoided the criminal Justice System. The fact is we never look at the cause, we just look at the effect. And many, many, many of these young men and women who i encounter in the work that i do today have tremendous traumas. And were working as a peer organization to help them work through that. To avoid Walking Around as hurting people because we know that hurt people, hurt people. And if we do not address those traumas early on, then further down the road, after recidivism and recidivism and were still going to be paying a much higher kauft. Thank you. Mr. Offer. I would give a perspective by the time that i spent my time in newark, new jersey, which is a terrific city and a city plagued by poverty, and in certain communities there is violence. And what i see in newark and really a lot of urban areas across new jersey and even across the country is that the only agency that is available in that municipality to address social needs or aat least the Agency Available is the police department. And to me that is the root cause of the problem. You have wellmeaning Police Officers and wellmeaning city officials that literally have no one else to go to if there is lets say some minor misbehavior happening on the street, that is minor. But that should not be treated by the criminal Justice System. And ill criticize diversion programs. While they are better than sending someone to jail or prison, my reaction is this person shouldnt have been entangled with the criminal justice person in the first place and arrested and diverted to alternative programs. We need to build up the resources of municipalities of tates to have other agencies to go to when they are interacting with people with with Mental Illness or with drug addiction problems. And if i could just close with a comment. The stigmatization of that label is something you will carry the rest of your life. It will prevent you from getting student loans, and prevent you from getting a job. And so it is with a great deal of care that we should ever take that next step, because we are in fact relegating that person to a certain quality of life for the rest of their life. Especially given the age of the internet where we can find out anything about anyone. And so i just want to make a broader point that were here to talk about what were going to do with high incarceration rates but we cannot look that problem without looking at the broad scope of services that are provided and how we can work more effectively for prevention. Thank you, senator heitkamp. Senator ayotte. Thank you. I want to thank all of you for being here. I think like my colleague senator heitkamp, we were both attorneys general in our state before we came to the senate and one of the things that i had worked on as an a. G. Was reenltry programs. And im a strong supporter of the Second Chance act and supporting the reauthorization but saw it from an attorney general context where even people who were incarcerated, for serious crimes, that we did not give them any path for success Going Forward because they came out, if they had a Substance Abuse problem, it was the the underlying issue was never dealt with. If there was Mental Health factors, that was not dealt with, no job, no place to live. If you put yourself in those shoes and you are that person and put out on the street, i think all of us on the dice probably wouldnt be able to put it back together. So i wanted to get your thoughts. Dr. Dillard, i saw your focus is really, as i understand what you are working on, it would be some form of recentry program. And we saw it in our state get some momentum and then sort of fizzle. And wanted to get your thoughts on reentrytype programs and what more we could do to make them more effective to try to end this cycle and to get people on to protect dif lives. And then i had some other follow up questions, but i would appreciate it. Well, i think reentry is a crucial point. If there is planning done, and individuals are giving different options. I know the federal system, six months andn a Halfway House is something i went through that was beneficial for me. I just wasnt released to the streets. And i was able to obtain employment during that period and save some money, to be able to rent a room at least, when i was done with my federal time. What im saying today though, is young men, coming out of our state and county systems homeless. 17, 18 years old, who cant go live with their mother because theyve been told you cant go there because of subsidies connecting to their counseling and they are couch surfing. And when thur couch surfing it is probably with those not doing so well or the antisocials that had an influns in them being placed in the criminal Justice System in the very first place. Housing initiatives are huge. I dont have a solution. I can say that were working on them in the region that im working in. Nonprofits and faithbased organizations are engaging with us in providing housing at an affordable rate. Preparation is huge. Individuals have to identify certain things while in custody in order to have a paradigm shift that this cant be an ongs. This cant be an option. I had a client tell me that, you know, committing a new crime wasnt his first option. Wasnt his first choice. But it was his very last option. And i knew i know the troubling times that he was in, sleeping on park benches, couldnt go to the shelter for various reasons, and he committed a new crime. As he told me, it wasnt his first choice. It was his very last option. And so the reentry process along with all of the barriers, i think mentoring from formerly an kars rated or connections from those that hire formally incarcerated because were ambassadors. I look at us as being those who can help them through the trying times and pivot points of reentry. Senator, my response to that question very quickly. This is an over sight houring on the bureau of prisons an the independent review that i keep referencing to and im happy to submit my annotated copy and with highlighting looked at this question of bureau of prison reentry practices and here is the finding in one sentence. There is no formal bureau wide reentry Preparedness Program specifically to restrictive housing and inmates in these settings and they have limited access to reenterry programming. The bureau does not do a good job in reentry programming. About 2,000 a year go from solitary back to community. One of the things the study found is that many of them, they dont know the exact number because the bureau doesnt track it are sent directly from solitary back to communities. That is a terrible practice that needs to stop immediately. There needs to be a focus on reentry programming in the federal bureau of prisons. Thank you. And ms. Ker man, i wanted to ask you, and i saw this when we were a. G. As well, were seeing on a devastating scale in our state is opioid and heroin addiction and ive been working on legislation called the comprehensive addiction and recory act and i hope to take this issue up here not to the Second Chance act but this comprehensive Addiction Recovery act. There was some discussion you had about this idea of alternative courts up front. What would you do, as you think about this issue, how many people did you encounter that had addiction issues that were underlying why they were in prison and how do you see this to me, to senator heitka heitkamps point, we cant arrest our way out of this. This is a Public Health crisis, but i want your thoughts on what should focus on most. What is happening in New Hampshire is happening in ohio and all over the country in terms of huge spikes in deaths from heroin and other it is devastating. You wouldnt believe the parents that are coming to me, high school heartbreaking. It is. Its devastating. It is fundamentally a Public Health question first and foremost. And so it is intersections where the criminal Justice System should really be secondary. Particularly as we continue to see crime rates very low. Violent crime rates very low. And so while obviously people who sell or use drugs are breaking the law, remembering that intervening in that addiction cycle is the single most important thing and cant be accomplished with a prison or a jail cell is completely central. We see a lot of people a lot of folks in the states trying a lot of Different Things and im neither a doctor nor an expert in addiction but we see safe harbors in places like gloucester, massachusetts and parts of the New England States have tried very innovative approaches to getting folks the medical help they need and having that be the primary concern rather than incarceration. When we look at states like new york, new jersey, california, the states that have reduced the prison populations the most and also have simultaneously continued to enjoy huge declines in Violent Crime, one of the things that weve seen in those states and i know udi could weigh in on new jersey, is a huge decline in prosecutions and low level drug offenses and a recognition that those that public disorder is a reflection of a Health Problem an that is the way to tackle it. Thank you. Thank you senator ayotte. Senator baldwin. Thank you. First of all, i want to thank our panelists, what a tremendous opportunity it is for us to hear from you and interact with you. And mr. Chairman, i really wanted to join the thanks for holding this hearing. I also to the Ranking Member. As you said in the outset, and many have commented, this is a very big and very complex issue. And so i hope well have additional opportunities, and i want to say that im glad that youre recognizing this committees role in this discussion and i hope that we can keep that up. There is a number of things i wanted to touch on. I heard the Ranking Member talking about upholding the models in states that are working and i usually love to brag about my state but in this particular case im just going to share some of the statistics about Racial Disparities in the incarcerated population in our state. In wisconsin, africanamericans constitute only 6 of the state population, a little bit more. 35 of those incarcerated in state prisons are africanamerican. According to a recent study from the university of wisconsin in milwaukee, 13 of wisconsins africanamerican men of working age were behind bars, which is almost double the National Average of 6. 7 . And the figures were particularly shocking and dismal for Milwaukee County where more than 50 of africanamerican men in their 30s had served time in prison. 45 of the inmates at our federal correctional facility, oxford, are africanamerican and 19. 3 are hispanic. And i hope, as we continue to work on this very complex issue, that that will be on our minds. I also just wanted to mention it, previously people were talking about their previous service, attorney general, i was never attorney general, i practiced law in a small general Practice Firm at the very beginning of my career. Mostly general practice, a couple of times i took misdemeanor public defender cases and that is my only interimmediate action but i was becoming involved in county politics an state level legislative office at this time where i saw the precursors of what were seeing now being debated. So i had the honor actually of serving as chairwoman of the Corrections Committee in the state legislature for one term. I took our committee to prisons for tours for visits, for conversations with people who work there, people who were inmates there, we had sometimes legislative hearings in the prisons. We went to the intame facility, one of the maximum Security Prisons, one of the medium Security Prisons for men and one of the medium Security Prisons for men. We went to the womens prison on a couple of occasions and visited work release facilities. At the same time, the legislature was talking about should we allow private prisons to be built and run in wisconsin. Should we contract with other states to deal with our overflow issues and have them house our wisconsin prisoners. And the counties were doing the same thing because some of the jails at the county level were overflowing. And the debate, the substantive criminal justice debate in our state at the time, and this is the early 90s. Three strikes and youre out, elimination of probation or parole and we have a. Felony and a b. Fem and an ab felony and new crimes were being created and there was debate about prison based vocational programs and mandatory minimums were a big topic. You could see all of this sort of in the future and now the future has come and it is not going to be overnight that we figure out what missteps we had had and how we deal with this in a saner way. I have a couple of questions and if i dont get to all of them, im hoping that you will be willing to submit this answers in writing for some things we might not get to. Quickly, ms. Kerman, you mentioned the women are the Fastest Growing prison population right now. Years ago when i was visiting the womens prison in wisconsin, it seemed there were gender differences an how they dealt with certain issues. We talked about solitary confinement. Is there a gender difference if how these issues are dealt with in womens prisons, for example i remember being very concerned about overmedication of women in the womens prison to deal with behavioral issues as opposed to placement in solitary confinement. Is this something we should still be looking at . We should absolutely be looking at the use of solitary confinement in mens and womens prisons. I echo udis testimony that solitary confinement is often used not for the most serious infractions like an assault for example, but rather for very lowlevel infractions. Women are overwhelmingly likely to be incarcerated for a nonViolent Crime and are very unlikely to use violence while they are in cars rated. Womens facilities do not tend to be to struggle with violence, as one of the guiding issues in terms of security. Solitary confinement is overwhelmingly used as a punitive measure. Female prisoners are disproportionate likely to suffer from Mental Illness. There are Mental Illness in mens facility is a huge problem, and it is even bigger problem in womens facilities. One of the tragic things about solitary confinement is that mentally ill people have a more difficult time following the rules of a prison. So what you see is spiraling sanctions which ultimately land them in solitary confinement, a place profoundly inappropriate for anybody with Mental Illness. A regularly healthy person who is placed in solitary confinement for ten days, after ten days will start to significantly deteriorate mentally, emotionally, psychologically, let alone a Mental Illness person placed in those circumstances. Since i have a couple of seconds left me me ask about reentry and if prison and after prison access to educational and vocational programming and you can certainly feel free to elaborate after the fact in writing because i know i have such limited time. But again, i recall the restriction of any sort of public funds or individualized Financial Aid assistance to those particularly in state prison because that was something i was looking at closely. I believe that is continued over time and we have additional restrictions once a person is back in the community, they want to seek additional vocational or Higher Education generally. It makes it impossible for the Financial Aid. Youve talked already, mr. Dillard, about people emerging burdened with debt not related to Higher Education. Tell me a little bit about the options for people to secure post High School Education upon release . Well, im seeing more opportunities opening up for individuals post release. At one time there was you check a box and you could get student loans. Im happy to hear that the pell grants, there is a pilot within the federal system with pell grants. Im so happy to hear that because it is a fact that individuals prior to 1994, i know many individuals who served time prior to that who came out with Associates Degrees and went on to achieve bachelors and masters. The fact is 98 of those who get a higher a bachelors or higher degree never return to prison. I mean that is something that we cant ignore. And i think that we should support as far as Higher Education within the system. Thanks. Thank you, senator baldwin. We do have a second panel. We could keep going on and this is fascinatinfascinating. Again, i want to thank this panel. The pirp of every hearing from my standpoint is to define the problem and lay out a reality and we collectively commit and i think youve accomplished that goal big time. Mr. Chairman, if i may yes. It is such a complicated zing shich and dealt with distinct aversions from solitary confinement to the lack of reentry, it might be good to pick one of those verticals given the vastness and hold another hearing. I was just going to get there. This is just a first. And i think what will end up being a series of haergs. We have a Mission Statement for this hearing. It is simple to enhance the economic and National Security of america. I think this issue touches both. One thing we tried to do in this committee is find the areas of agreement. What youve seen in it hearing is a great deal of bipartisan agreement that what were doing just isnt working. And not because of lack of effort by our next panel of witnesses, by any stretch of the imagination. So mr. Offer, i would encourage you and your organization to continue to press with this and work with those of us that want to solve your problem. Your points on solitary confinement dead on and we need to fix that. Mr. Dillard, god bless you for turning your life around and taking your circumstance and offering that to your fellow man to help other people find redemption and again turn their lives around as well. And mrs. Kerman, i think with your unintended celebrity, i think youve gone an excellent job of raising the issues. Ive spoken to my staff. I liked your answer to the question in terms of what are alternatives. And from my standpoint, a rigoro rigorous dose of Community Reparation and those types of programs, Community Service, i think is probably appropriate for people that have committed crimes, we do need some punishment and deterrence but hopefully in the Community Service you might heal and you just might find that a far more effective way at dealing with the issues than locking somebody up and really seeing the result that simply is not working. So again, i just want to thank everybody here on this panel. I want to continue to work with you and work with members of the committee on a bipartisan basis and know this is just a first of what will be im sure a series of i think very important hearings. So thank you very much. And well call up our next panel. By the way if you have time. I would love to have you stay and listen to our next panel as well. But you dont have to feel obligated to. [ pause in proceedings ] mr. Samuels you sitd down and im going to ask you to stand again because it is the tradig of this committee to swear in witnesses. So if you will both rise and raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony you will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god. Please be seated. Our first witness in this panel will be mr. Childs e samuels jr. He is the direct your of the federal bureau of prisons and appointed on december 31, 2011. He is a career public administrator in the federal bureau of prisons serving as the assistant director of the Correctional Programs Division where he oversaw inmate functions. Director samuels was responsible for enhancing the reentry initiatives. Mr. Samuels. Good morning chairman johnson and Ranking Member carper and members of the committee. I thank you for your time and focus on important issue of federal corrections. Im pleased to discuss with you today the operations of the federal bureau of prisons. Im also pleased to speak on behalf of the 39,000 dedicated correctional workers across the country who are on the job 24 hours a day, seven day as week to support the bureau as Public Safety mission. We protect society by confining offenders in facilities that are safe, human, cost efficient and appropriately secure and provide offenders programs to help them become law abiding citis. Simply stated we protect society and reduce crime. But we face significant challenges. The bureau does not control the number of offenders who enter our system or the length of their stay. We are required to house all federal offenders sentenced to prison while maintaining, safety, security andective reentry programs. We house offenders convicted of a variety of offenses. Many serving long sentences and many with extensive histories of violence. Drug offenders make up almost half of the population. In addition, we house many individuals convicted of weapons, sex and immigration offenses to include international and domestic terrorism. The bureau is the largest Correctional Agency in the country with more than 2,007,500 offenders and 122 federal prisons, 13 private prisons and 178 Community Based facilities. Our agency began to expand rapidly in the 1980s. Due largely to the nations war on drugs. From 1980 to the present, we experienced an eightfold increase in the size of our in mate population. Crowding in federal prisons reached nearly 40 systemwide and even higher at immediate yaum and high Security Prisons where the more violence prone offenders reside. The tremendous growth in inmate population outpaced Staffing Resources and negatively impacted institution safety. Our ability to effectively supervise prisoners and provide inmate programs depends on having sufficient numbers of staff available at our prisons. Recently population abated scheidtly n. Fiscal year 2014 we saw the first decline in inmate population for more than 34 years and we expect it for the next couple of years but crowding will remain a challenge. Staff safety as well as the safety of the public and the offenders we house is my highest priority. Every day our staff put the safety of the mesh people above their own to keep communities safe and secure. Some of the saddest days of my 27 year career occurred one week in 2013 when two staff were killed in the line of duty. Correctional officer Eric Williams was killed on february 25th nl and the next day lieutenant alvarado was murdered. This is a powerful reminder of the dangerouses our staff face. We have taken advantage of technology for contraband edirection and Perimeter Security where pilots and pepper spray for staff and we are requiring the use of protective vests. We increased our correctional officer staffing at high security institutions during evenings, weekends an holidays. Over the past few years we have been protect avenue it addressing concerns regarding the use of restrictive housing. Since 2012 we substantially reduced the number of in mates in our special housing unit and special management unit. Less than 7 of the population is in restrictive housing and very few are housed without another individual in the cell. Our focus is toik maur sheer placed in restrictive housing for the right reason for the right amount of time. We have inmates who need specializes treatment and a high degree of supervision to protect themselves and others. We look forward to make additional reforms in the area of restrictive housing. We have a saying in the bureau that reentry begins on the first day of in car race. We review criminal behavior and Substance Abuse and education and Mental Illness and we prepare them to transition successfully to their communities. Many of the programs have been proven to reduce recidivism such as the Residential Drug Abuse Treatment Program and educational and vocational programs. We have programs for Mental Illness offenders and including those with history of trauma and we have programs with offenders and sex offense histories and those with severe personality disorders. We provide programs to help offenders deepen their spiritual faith and we have programmed tailored to the needs of female offenders. The bureau relies on a network of Community Based facilities, residential Facility Centers or Halfway Houses and home confinement. Community placement helps offenders readapt to the community and secure housing, jobs, medical, care and more. Chairman johnson, Ranking Member carper, and members of the committee, this concludes my formal statement. Im proud of the work our taf do to keep americans safe. Again, i thank you for your time and focus on the important issue of federal corrections. Thank you direct your samuels. The next witness is michael horowitz, the Inspector General for the department of justice. During his tenure as the Inspector General, the office has identified a number of areas within the bureau of reform, including budget, inmate programming and especially as it relates to the elderly inmate population and increasing safety and implementation of the Compassionate Release Program mr. Horowitz. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member carper, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to testify today. The Justice Department faces two interrelated crises in managing the federal prison system. Costs continue to rise while federal prisons remain significantly overcrowded and in an era of tight budgets this path is unsustainable. Since fiscal year 2000 the budget has nearly doubled and accounts for 25 of the departments discretionary budget. The b. O. P. Has more employees than any other d. O. J. Component and the second largest budget at the d. O. J. Trailing only the fbi. One of the drivers for the price increases in addition to the increased prison population is healthcare which cost the Bureau Prison forever 1 billion in 2014, a 61 increase since 2006. This rapid increase can partly be attributed to the aging of the federal inmate population and a recent oig report we found the number of in mates age 50 and older increased by 25 from 2009 to 2013. By contrast, the population ofib mates underage 50 actually decreased by 1 , including a decrease of 29 for inmates underage 30. This demographic shift is notable because aging inmates cost more to incarcerate. Our report found that b. O. P. Institutions lack appropriate staffing to address the needs of the aging inmate population. For exam mel, while social workers are uniquely qualified to assist aging inmates the b. O. P. Blowingied only 36 workers nationwide. And the physical infrastructure of bop cannot aud quatly house aging inmates and the bop has not conducted a nationwide review of the accessibility of the institutions since 1996. In additionally the bop does not provide programming addressing the needs of aging inmates. We also concluded that based on the lower rates of recidivism, some inmates could be viable candidates for Early Release, a program that congress has authorized. However, we found that in just over one year following the attorney general announcement of an elderly Compassionate Release Program, the department and bop only released two elderly inmates pursuant to it. These findings are similar to the 2013 review for the compassionate release inmate for all inmates. And we found it was managed inconsistently. Following our review they are modestly increased the number of in mates released under it. In our 2011 review of the Departments International prisoner transfer program, another Program Congress has authorized and which permits Foreign National inmates to serve the remainder of the sentences in their home countries, the oig found the department rejected 97 of transfer requests and transfe transferred less than 1 of mainities to their home countries to complete their sentence. We concluded the department needed to make a number of improvements to the program, including ensuring it accurately determine whether inmates are eligible for prom gram program and were completing a follow up review to that report. And another cost is for private contract prisons which alargely used to house inmates, many of the b. O. P. 40,000 nonu. S. National inmates. The bop budget for contract facility is over 1 billion an the proportion of federal inmates housed in bop contract prisons has increased from 2 in 1980 to about 20 in 2013. Indeed two of the three largest d. O. J. Contracts are contract providers. They me address must address the safety and staff the most significant threat to the safety and security of bop staff and inmates with federal prisons at 30 over rated capacity. Indeed, in every one of its Agency Financial reports since 2006 the department has identified prison overcrowding as a programmatic material weakness, yet the problem remains unresolved today. In addition to overcrowding, the unlawful introduction of contraband presents a serious threat to safety and security. The unauthorized use of cell phones is proven to be a particularly significant risk, and the jao has reported the number of cell phones confiscated by the bop more than doubled from 2008 to 2010. Additionally, sexual abuse in prison remains a serious safety and securityish ow. The oag has continued its longstanding efforts to identify sexual abuse by staff at federal detention facilities. We recently reported on the departments efforts to implement and comply with the prison rape elimination act. Finally, a Significant Management challenge for the department has been measuring the success of the prison programs. And an essential achieving performancesbased management is having reliable data, an issue that is continuing to be a challenge for the department and bop. A comprehensive approach to the collection and analysis of data on how well bop programs are reducing incarceration rates, detearing crime, and improving Public Safety will help the department focus its resources and make strategic investments. Thank you for the committees continued support for our work and i would be happy to answer any questions the committee may have. Thank you Inspector General horowitz. First of all, i do not envy your task. And i want to thank you for your service which has been longstanding. Let me start there. According to your bio that i have in front of me, you began as a correctional officer in march of 1988. Can you just because weve all quoted statistics here, in 1980 the prison population in the federal system was 25,000 and now it is over 200,000. Can you just give us your perspective in terms of what all has happened and what you witnessed over your career . Thank you, senator. From my perspective, having joined the agency as a correctional officer in 1988 and around that time the bureaus population was a little more than 60,000. I think historically when you look at the bureau press sons and you go back to 1940, from 1940 to 1980 the bureaus population pretty much remained flat for many, many years in compels of 20,000. So in 1980, which is the primary target for this discussion, we, as an agency, we had approximately 24,000 inmates in the federal system. We had less than 9,000 employees, 41 institutions and we were able to operate the entire Bureau Prison for 330 million. So when you look at the increase from 1980 to 2013, we were at more than 800 as far as the growth of the population. And our staffing didnt keep pace with that growth. And with our mission, where we are tasked with anyone and everyone who is convicted and turned over to the department of justice and placed in the care of the bureau of prisons, we have a job to do, a significant job. And it takes staff to do the work that is required. Let me ask you, from your perspective, again, youve been there, what drove the dramatic increase in the prison population . Well the war on drugs in the early 80s had a significant drive on the growth of the population. And as a result, we were having more offenders coming into the system. And we have a longstanding practice within the bureau of press sons, and this goes all the way back into the 1930th, that our reentry efforts are always in play. And that is for to ensure for our role that were providing rehabilitation. But the challenges as we try to protect the inmates and staff in our facilities but the driver has been the war on drugs. Has there been any legitimate increase due to a crackdown on Violent Crime that we just really again, appropriately crack down on that, or is that really like we didnt become a more criminal society. We are always arresting and convicting people and putting people in jail. Are we putting them in longer . I want you to address that aspect as well. In regards to violent offenses, the department, through prosecutorial efforts, there is a mixture of individuals, as you are aware, nonviolent criminals and those with violence. And within our population, i think its very safe to say we have very violent offenders in our population to include a significant amount of gang members in the federal system we have more than 21,000 Security ThreatGroup Members who pose a significant threat to the public, inmates and staff. If were talking about gang violence, would that also be again, generally driven by drugs . It can be driven by drugs. If the gangs and those who are associated with that activity if its part of the structure within the gang for monetary gain. And let me stick with the director and ask some of the questions in terms of Inspector General history owe withess testimony. Why havent we been more proactive in terms of some of these Early Release programs that have been authorized . Is there a risk aversion . Because who wants to be responsible for releasing somebody into the public that will commit another Violent Crime. Can you speak to why we havent taken advantage of those programs a little bit more robustly . The bureau of prisons as director of the agency, my authority is very limited. When you look at taking advantage of the various programs that are being referenced. With compassionate release, which i will start there, we, as an agency, did a thorough review and we determined a couple of years ago when we were looking at the number of individuals who would meet the criteria just for the release based on terminal illness. We discovered that there were a little more than 200 inmates in the bureau of prisons. And once they were identified, you have to go further in making sure that for those individuals who are even being considered that they have the resources if they are, in fact, given the opportunity through a motion and are released under that program. So 200 inmates agencywide with the population at that time that was at 220,000 is a very, very small number. So again, were talking about compassionate release, and Early Release and release to Foreign Nationals and under all three programs are you saying that the law or the regulation is just written too restrictively and just doesnt give you the latitude to utilize those programs more fully . Then mr. Inspector general, ill be asking you the same question. Weve expanded, as you know with the release program we moved from medical to nonmedical. And even when we look at those cases and many are being referred, when you are looking at the criteria, as well as being responsible for Public Safety for any individuals having the propensity to continue more criminal activity, we have to take that into account. With the transfer program, and i do share the concerns that the Inspector General has raised, we identified through the audit a problem there, and we have since that time provided a number of training opportunities for our staff as well as educating the inmate population on their rights under consideration for the program, and we have seen an increase. However, when we submit the application for consideration there is another process that takes place with the Department Working with the various countries who have agreements under the treaty transfer program to make determination on this when those individuals are removed. And of course, they would probably rather have the u. S. Bear the cost of keeping those people in prison themselves. Inspector general horowitz, can you kind of again speak to why, from your perspective, why some of these programs havent been utilized more fully . I think there are a couple of reasons. And i agree with director samuels. In many of them its not because of the bop decisionmaking, its elsewhere in the department or the way the programs have been narrow, restrictions placed on their use. For example, elderly release, 65 and older is where it was set. Announced with many fanfare, but there is only two. We find inmates being released under that program a yearplus later. Why is that . Well, in part because of the 4,000plus inmates who are over age 65 in the federal prison system, they have to meet very strict criteria. And both with regard to meeting the criteria and as we found in that program and treaty transfer, the discretionary calls that have to be made. And perhaps its risk aversion, perhaps its a feeling that someone got a jail sentence, they should let me; appropriately strict criteria . We found we had concerned with elderly provisions. For example, requiring people to serve a long period of time and to demonstrate a lengthy period of service for a sentence. What that meant was for inmates that were the least dangerous, presumably had low sentences, they couldnt get released because they hadnt served a long period of time. That seemed odd to us. So thats something we should really take a look at. Right. Thank you. I dont want to go too much over time. Senator ayotte. Thank you, chairman. Director samuels, i want to ask you about a particular prison in my state thats important, especially its in coosk county, fci burrland. And i wanted to ask about what the status is of staffing at that facility. Warden tatum has indicated the facility was staffed at about 290 and there were about 1200 incarcerated individuals there. Can you give me an update on levels and also what the ultimate goal is for capacity there and staffing . Yes. Thank you, senator. Right now with the plannedf