Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240607

manifestos. labour meeting the national executive committee today to perhaps talk about what has been leaked already about their manifesto. all of them do to be published next week. this is going to be a very different debate. compared to the itv debate. the head—to—head between rishi sunak and sir keir starmer. this is what we call an election party's debate. some of the leaders will be on stage, but not all. let me show you the sleet of people we will see tonight. going from the left, we will see the conservative leader of the house, penny mordaunt who you may be familiar with from the time of the coronation. me will be familiar with the deputy leader, angela rayner. the deputy leader of the lib dems, dc cooper a, the snp leader in the commons, stephen flynn, also there, the co—leader of the greens in england and wales and the greens in england and wales and the leader of plaid cymru and of course on the ends, the newly minted leader of reform uk, nigel farage. let me bring in our political correspondent. let's start with our political correspondent leila nathoo, who is with me. she will hold our hands through this evening because they're so much to get into this day. spare a thought for our colleague, i do want to these panel programmes every night and you have three or four on screen with me. it's like being one of those dinner hosts. you never get around to everyone at the same time. you don't give them enough. so over 90 minutes, it will be tough. i you don't give them enough. 50 over 90 minutes, it will be tough.- 90 minutes, it will be tough. i have no doubt she _ 90 minutes, it will be tough. i have no doubt she will— 90 minutes, it will be tough. i have no doubt she will do _ 90 minutes, it will be tough. i have no doubt she will do a _ 90 minutes, it will be tough. i have no doubt she will do a stellar- no doubt she will do a stellarjob giving everyone their due time. at seven parties, a chance for each to put their case. seven of the major political parties in great britain. it is chance for the smaller parties to get some air time in this election campaign. questions from the audience, also question sent in already from viewers at home. so a full range of topics like this and interesting to see what approach each representative of the party takes. will they be polite, will they try and stretch their airtime to the maximum and talk over each other. will there be a dental persons agreement to keep it all nice and civilised or will it send into chaos. nice and civilised or will it send into chm-— nice and civilised or will it send into chaos. ~ . , ., ., into chaos. michelle is one of the better in broadcasting _ into chaos. michelle is one of the better in broadcasting but - into chaos. michelle is one of the better in broadcasting but she . into chaos. michelle is one of the| better in broadcasting but she will have to be stern. what could they talk about? the elephant in the room will be the prime minister's apology. i cannot think, i have to say, of something so consequential in an election campaign. may be scott morrison, do you remember, in australia who went to hawaii at the forest fires and never recovered from that. is this akin to that? it is certainly a moment. if you think back to past election campaigns, there have been events that have stuck in people's mines. gordon brown and a bigoted woman's comment in it when he was trying to win the election. theresa may on social care when her manifesto policies unraveled. there were certainly moments that i think stuck in a campaign. this feels like one of those moments. we are only two weeks it and it's hard to believe we have another month to go. it certainly felt like at the start of the campaign, we were always saying, we need to be careful, there are things that can,, unexpected events, that can derail the best laid plans. i think it certainly feels like one. rishi sunak has come across to have been on the back foot, caught unaware in terms of how his decision would be received. then forced into making an apology. something we don't hear very often at all. i think for that reason, it will resonate. it will last in people's minds hearing a newscast apologise for his behaviour on a day on such national importance of international apartments —— prime minister. i think i will linger in people's smiling. it think i will linger in people's smilinu. . , . think i will linger in people's smilinu. ., think i will linger in people's smilin. ., ., ., , smiling. it was a fulsome apology. he will play _ for our viewers and talk off of the back. , . , for our viewers and talk off of the back. , ., for our viewers and talk off of the back. ,., , ., ._ , back. over the past two days i participated — back. over the past two days i participated in _ back. over the past two days i participated in a _ back. over the past two days i participated in a number - back. over the past two days i participated in a number of. back. over the past two days i - participated in a number of events in portsmouth and france to honour those who risk their lives to defend our freedom and our values those who risk their lives to defend ourfreedom and our values eight years ago. the itinerary for these events was set weeks ago, before the start of the general election campaign. having participated in all of the british offence with the british veterans, i return home before the international leaders of event leader in the day. on reflection, that was a mistake and i apologise. i think it is important, given the enormity of the sacrifice made, that we don't politicise this. the focus should be on the veterans who gave so much. i have the honour and privilege of speaking to many of them and hearing their stories and expressing my gratitude personally to them. but i am someone who will always admit when i have made a mistake that is what you will always get for me. mistake that is what you will always net for me. ., ,., ., get for me. you sound more eanperated _ get for me. you sound more exasperated than _ get for me. you sound more | exasperated than apologetic. get for me. you sound more - exasperated than apologetic. these men made the ultimate sacrifice and you cannot _ men made the ultimate sacrifice and you cannot even sacrifice a whole afternoon — you cannot even sacrifice a whole afternoon. in 98—year—old dd veteran told us _ afternoon. in 98—year—old dd veteran told us that _ afternoon. in 98—year—old dd veteran told us that you let the country down — told us that you let the country down is — told us that you let the country down. is he right? i told us that you let the country down. is he right? i participated in fence in portsmouth _ down. is he right? i participated in fence in portsmouth and _ down. is he right? i participated in fence in portsmouth and france i down. is he right? i participated in fence in portsmouth and france in| fence in portsmouth and france in two days and this is an incredibly important moment for our country to commemorate the sacrifice of all of those in their service and it was an honour and privilege to meet many veterans and speak to them and their families, heartheirstories, express my gratitude to them and build on our record of making sure that this is the best country in the world for veterans.— world for veterans. you did not care, did _ world for veterans. you did not care. did you? _ world for veterans. you did not care, did you? i— world for veterans. you did not care, did you? i care _ world for veterans. you did not care, did you? i care deeply. . world for veterans. you did not. care, did you? i care deeply. then wh did care, did you? i care deeply. then why did you _ care, did you? i care deeply. then why did you not — care, did you? i care deeply. then why did you not stay? _ care, did you? i care deeply. then why did you not stay? the - care, did you? i care deeply. then| why did you not stay? the itinerary for these events _ why did you not stay? the itinerary for these events were _ why did you not stay? the itinerary for these events were set - why did you not stay? the itinerary for these events were set weeks i why did you not stay? the itinerary i for these events were set weeks ago and i dissipated both in portsmouth and i dissipated both in portsmouth and in france and having fully participated in the british offence with british veterans i returned home before the international leaders of that. that was a mistake and i apologise for that. 0nstage tonight, penny mordaunt, daughter of a paratrooper, the reservist in the navy, and honorary commander in the navy. how did she approach this? we commander in the navy. how did she approach this?— commander in the navy. how did she approach this? we have had ministers on the airwaves _ approach this? we have had ministers on the airwaves trying _ approach this? we have had ministers on the airwaves trying to _ approach this? we have had ministers on the airwaves trying to do _ approach this? we have had ministers on the airwaves trying to do that - on the airwaves trying to do that difficult job on the airwaves trying to do that difficultjob of explaining the prime minister's actions. i think what may be instructive is the approach we have seen from the veterans affairs ministerjohn mercer who we have heard from today. who has tried to tread the line between acknowledging the disappointment felt by veterans by the prime minister's actions, he said he was personally crushing. he is mindful of his role as a minister, who he represents. but also, trying to say, look, rishi sunak has been the most accommodating prime minister he has worked with when it comes to prioritising veterans. i imagine thatis prioritising veterans. i imagine that is the approach we will see from penny mordaunt because she is going to be mindful of her own backgrounds, her own constituency, of portsmouth north. 15,000 orfour and all to play for and she has been one of the bigger names that has been one to beat at risk of this election. so she will be mindful of that. she's also one of the people has been noted as a potential leadership contender on the other side of the election should things not go the conservative's way and rishi sunak vacates his position. so she has a lot to consider, but of course, she's representing the conservative party so i imagine we will see her try to tread the line of acknowledging the hurt and the disappointment that the prime minister has caused in certain communities. while also defending his record more broadly and his presence at other events. labour have had to _ presence at other events. labour have had to do _ presence at other events. labour have had to do very _ presence at other events. labour have had to do very little - presence at other events. labour have had to do very little today, | have had to do very little today, just stand back and watch. the pictures of circulating are of the leader of the opposition shaking the hand of president zelensky. the uk, probably the closest ally for ukraine and the prime minister not there. of course, keir starmer made comment today. let's have a listen. the apology, this a draw a line under— the apology, this a draw a line under it? — the apology, this a draw a line under it? bloom _ the apology, this a draw a line under it? bloom i— the apology, this a draw a line under it? bloom i the - the apology, this a draw a line under it? bloom i the answer. the apology, this a draw a line . under it? bloom i the answer for the apology, this a draw a line - under it? bloom i the answer for his own actions. — under it? bloom i the answer for his own actions, but _ under it? bloom i the answer for his own actions, but those _ under it? bloom i the answer for his own actions, but those veterans. . own actions, but those veterans. have _ own actions, but those veterans. have made — own actions, but those veterans. have made the _ own actions, but those veterans. have made the most _ own actions, but those veterans. have made the most incredible l own actions, but those veterans. - have made the most incredible effort to be there. most took days to get there _ to be there. most took days to get there and — to be there. most took days to get there and emotionally it was difficult _ there and emotionally it was difficult for some because they have not been _ difficult for some because they have not been back and i was really struck— not been back and i was really struck by— not been back and i was really struck by the fact that when the king arrived, many of them, in their wheelchairs, — king arrived, many of them, in their wheelchairs, you could see the effort — wheelchairs, you could see the effort they were putting into try and get — effort they were putting into try and get out of their wheelchair to stand _ and get out of their wheelchair to stand up— and get out of their wheelchair to stand up for the king. most did, even _ stand up for the king. most did, even for— stand up for the king. most did, even for a — stand up for the king. most did, even for a few minutes, few seconds, because _ even for a few minutes, few seconds, because it _ even for a few minutes, few seconds, because it was so hard. obviously they will— because it was so hard. obviously they will still be making their way back _ they will still be making their way hack~ i_ they will still be making their way back. i thought was important for me to he _ back. i thought was important for me to be aware _ back. i thought was important for me to be aware to pay my respects to them and _ to be aware to pay my respects to them and those that did not return. and actually to say, thank you. rishi _ and actually to say, thank you. rishi sunak will have to answer his own actions. for me there was no where else i was going to he _ there was no where else i was going to he. of— there was no where else i was going to be. . ., , ., , to be. of course the king was there throu . hout to be. of course the king was there throughout the _ to be. of course the king was there throughout the day. _ to be. of course the king was there throughout the day. his _ to be. of course the king was there throughout the day. his first major| throughout the day. his first major engagement since his cancer diagnosis. one of the real problems i think for the prime minister when you think of the policy is just a week ago, they were setting out national service for 18—year—olds, expecting 18—year—olds to give up a year of their life for public service and here's the prime minister who cannot even give up the afternoon. it’s minister who cannot even give up the afternoon. �* , ., ,, ., minister who cannot even give up the afternoon. �* , ., ~ ., ., afternoon. it's awkward and difficult for _ afternoon. it's awkward and difficult for rishi _ afternoon. it's awkward and difficult for rishi sunak - afternoon. it's awkward and difficult for rishi sunak on | afternoon. it's awkward and l difficult for rishi sunak on so afternoon. it's awkward and - difficult for rishi sunak on so many levels and certainly that was an overture to the military announcing that policy of national service and that policy of national service and that was certainly put to rishi sunak today, the dissidents there between what he was announcing and his own actions. i think he honestly recognise there was no real comeback for him from what happened so the idea being, let's apologise and hold our hands up and hope that we can move on. obviously, the contrast with keir starmer potentiallyjust weeks away from becoming the prime minister, looking prime ministerial on the stage with other world leaders who had taken time out of their schedules to stay the course for the event, i think that is deeply uncomfortable for rishi sunak if you will be regretting that massively. if you will be regretting that massively-— if you will be regretting that massivel . . ., ., massively. another important announcement _ massively. another important announcement in _ massively. another important announcement in the - massively. another important announcement in the last - massively. another important | announcement in the last hour massively. another important. announcement in the last hour or massively. another important - announcement in the last hour or so, i mentioned that labour have been meeting the national executive committee to discuss the final touches to be manifested before the big reveal next week, what are you hearing is in there that may attract some headlines?— some headlines? labour has this rocess some headlines? labour has this process specifically _ some headlines? labour has this process specifically it _ some headlines? labour has this process specifically it goes - some headlines? labour has this l process specifically it goes through to produce its final manifesto. that is a meeting between leading labour figures, representatives of trade unions, representatives of the national executive committee that has been happening today, all very secretive process. attendees will hand in their phones for example. they do not want anything to get out. that said, there have been people who have been briefed on the contents of the manifesto and you started hearing a few things emerging last night, some of the newspapers were reporting, some sources reporting things that would be in it and the most eye—catching that was actually confirmed by keir starmer today, that was actually confirmed by keir starmertoday, is that was actually confirmed by keir starmer today, is that there is going to be commitment of labour to recognise a palestinian state. there is not detail around this in terms of a timeline, but certainly, keir starmer think that a palestinian state would be recognised as part of the process to a two state solution. does that echo what lord cameron was saying a few weeks ago, but his party did not commit to that. there's been tension in terms of what lord cameron the foreign secretary in terms of where his position is and actually what the government's position has been up until this point. david cameron had certainly hinted that he wanted to see that along the road, the recognition of a palestinian state. certainly that was an eye—catching comment from him. i think this is significant bearing in mind, keir starmer�*s troubles with the war in gaza in his party. remember, cast your mind back, difficult to see in the middle of a general election campaign, where it has not played a bigger role as labour was worried it could have been so far. all of that tension, the soul searching within the labour party on whether they were taking the right approach towards a cease—fire, calling for a cease—fire in gaza, here they are saying, here we are coming out to recognise a palestinian state. i don't know if it will be enough, we will have to wait until the detail comes around. in terms of what they are proposing as the process of getting to that. how they will achieve that.— getting to that. how they will achieve that. ., ., achieve that. the one thing that strikes me _ achieve that. the one thing that strikes me about _ achieve that. the one thing that strikes me about that _ achieve that. the one thing that strikes me about that as - achieve that. the one thing that strikes me about that as you - achieve that. the one thing that| strikes me about that as you can outline a policy like that if you are in opposition, but it is very likely, judging by the polls, that this would be a policy carried into government. we've already seen the reaction to a similar announcement in norway and spain and ireland from the israelis. one of the uk's closest allies just a week ago. are they prepared for the backlash that they prepared for the backlash that they are likely to get? netanyahu said that this was like terrorism. at this point, because they have the cover of we have not seen the detail, to get this out there of something that has emerged ahead of the manifesto being printed out in black or white for us to look at. they want that to be there as a commitment. the practicalities of it, it will it be a unilateral recognition, how are they going to do it, at what stage. will itjust be in aspiration. there will be people scrutinising that very closely. i think now, to have this out there and saying, this is what the labour party wants to do that will play in certain quarters. they don't have to get into detail until what we see in black—and—white next week. what we see in black-and-white next week. a, , , ., what we see in black-and-white next week. , , ., ., ., week. maybe we will put that to one ofthe week. maybe we will put that to one of the labour _ week. maybe we will put that to one of the labour party _ week. maybe we will put that to one of the labour party spokesman - week. maybe we will put that to one | of the labour party spokesman here, you will have ministers later here before the debate. we will get all sorts of facts and figures truths and untruths from the stage tonight. how will we sipped our way through? are verified team will be watching. nick eardley and our bbc verify team will be fact checking the debate tonight. seven parties tonight so we will hear lots of different views that will be a lot for the team here to fact check. the goal is going to be to put some of the claims here tonight in context. explain what you can trust and what we should perhaps be a bit more sceptical about. let me remind you of some of the stuff we have heard already this week because there has been controversial claims in the last few days. the conservatives have doubled down on this one will still rishi sunak make a lot on tuesday claiming a future labour government would put up household taxes by £2000. if you hear that tonight, household taxes by £2000. if you hearthat tonight, rememberthe hear that tonight, remember the context. hearthat tonight, rememberthe context. that figure on its own is misleading. some of the figures to put this together are dubious. if you take the figure at face value, you take the figure at face value, you are looking at over four years, not one. if you hear this claimed as a treasury figure, they remind tonight that the top civil servant in the treasury clarified earlier this week that it is not. labour, have a pretty dubious claim of their own as well. this one that the conservatives would scrap national inserts that would open up a whole of £46 billion in the public finances —— national insurance. it is worth remembering the conservatives have said that this is a longer—term aspiration. it is not a longer—term aspiration. it is not a party policy and the chancellor has insisted, this will not happen anytime soon, until the money is available. so if you hear these things tonight, just remember, be sceptical. some other things worth equipping yourself with thinking about arguments tonight, there has been a lot of talk recently about the cost of living, about whether people are better off now when conservatives came to power or since the last general election. this is the last general election. this is the picture when it comes to household disposable income. as you can see, since 2010, since the conservatives took over, it has gone up conservatives took over, it has gone up quite a lot. but it is an interesting picture since the last general election of 2019. you can see there is a big drop. largely because of the pandemic. the figure now, going into the general election is lower than it was in 2019. so living standards have gone down since the last general election. that is not supposed to happen. it has not happened since these records started to be collected. it will be interesting to hear what the parties say about that tonight and what their solution would be. what else? immigration may come up. the situation with small boats crossing the channel has been a big debate over the last few months. this is the crucial contacts that you need. the conservatives like to talk about this figure. 2023. the fact that small boats crossings came down a third between the period. that is still the second highest on record. if you look down here, focusing on the redline. that is what has happened so far this year. so far in 2024, small boats crossings are up. both on 2023 and that record year of 2022. we don't know for sure what is going to come up tonight. it is a big night for several parties. we will be here tonight with the team of fact checkers and plenty of people going to the numbers, figuring out what we can and cannot trust. but the context there i think is going to be really important. there will be a lot of numbers in figuring out exactly what they mean and how to digest them will be extremely important.— extremely important. don't go anywhere- _ extremely important. don't go anywhere- we _ extremely important. don't go anywhere. we will— extremely important. don't go anywhere. we will need - extremely important. don't go anywhere. we will need you i extremely important. don't go i anywhere. we will need you close at hand with what will come at us. 730 is when the debate starts. with me is the co—founder and director at delta poll. people have finger on who may come out on top this evening. there are six scheduled debates, but only to this one and the one on itv on the 13th where all seven parties will feature. so this is a invaluable time for them to make a bit of a splash. absolutely. with seven — make a bit of a splash. absolutely. with seven parties _ make a bit of a splash. absolutely. with seven parties taking - make a bit of a splash. absolutely. with seven parties taking part, i with seven parties taking part, there is also play for. it will be interesting to see if any of the participants try to hit it for sex, go for a really big thing in the hope of really cutting through. and what will inevitably be a crowded marketplace —— go for six. it will be interesting some of the comments in attempts to attract attention are credulous or outright lies. did it make a difference, _ credulous or outright lies. did it make a difference, debates? i credulous or outright lies. did it i make a difference, debates? they have a potential _ make a difference, debates? they have a potential to _ make a difference, debates? tia: have a potential to make a difference but since 2010, the only debate that has made a lasting difference in the polls was the very first in 2010. i agree with nick, nick clegg mania and what followed. during the subsequent debates, they did not have an impact, part of the reason was the way that viewers observed these things has changed. they tend to see it more through a partisan lens. more importantly, the way that politicians approach it has changed. crucially the media landscape has changed enormously. increasingly, it is not so much about the 90 minutes of the candidates hit, it is not the clips they can take from that and disseminate through all different social media channels. the disseminate through all different social media channels.— disseminate through all different social media channels. the snap you not oll on social media channels. the snap you got poll on tuesday _ social media channels. the snap you got poll on tuesday night _ social media channels. the snap you got poll on tuesday night had rishi i got poll on tuesday night had rishi sunak to slightly ahead of the labour leader keir starmer. did that translate into the water pulls, the pull of polls? this translate into the water pulls, the pull of polls?— pull of polls? no end it does not a- ear to pull of polls? no end it does not appear to have _ pull of polls? no end it does not appear to have any _ pull of polls? no end it does not appear to have any impact i pull of polls? no end it does not appear to have any impact and l pull of polls? no end it does not i appear to have any impact and that is why it's not polls, are just a bit of fun. but the reality is that it is about what follows. think of the coverage, both good and bad that followed the previous debate around the claim that labour would put taxes up by £2000. the conservative said that it was accurate, labour said that it was accurate, labour said it was a lie. it is that that people will respond to you, far more than what they are simply watching on the screen at the time. in respect of policy, when you look at these polls, do people think two weeks and, that they are getting the answers? the ones they want. thea;r answers? the ones they want. they are caettin answers? the ones they want. they are getting the _ answers? the ones they want. they are getting the answers _ answers? the ones they want. ti21 are getting the answers during debate? not really. the perception in focus groups and surveys is that this is about grandstanding for politicians. that is why people's way of observing these things has changed. there are rather more cynical than they once were during the heady days of 2010.— the heady days of 2010. obviously the heady days of 2010. obviously the institute _ the heady days of 2010. obviously the institute for _ the heady days of 2010. obviously the institute for physical - the heady days of 2010. obviously the institute for physical studies l the institute for physical studies has set there were only two options here for whoever makes up the next government —— fiscal studies. you can either cut public spending or you can raise taxes. none of the parties seem to want to go there. do you think the public understand what is at stake here? to the understand the options in front of them? i think so too a certain degree but at the amount of cuts or the amount of increase of taxes is not something really focus on. that kind of detail tends to be lost. instead it is the broad stories, the narratives that tend people to concentrate on. that is why these debates can be important for setting the agenda over the next few days. rather than the 90 minutes in which it is actually happening. i the 90 minutes in which it is actually happening.— the 90 minutes in which it is actually happening. i don't mean this as any _ actually happening. i don't mean this as any disrespect _ actually happening. i don't mean this as any disrespect to - actually happening. i don't mean this as any disrespect to the i this as any disrespect to the smallest parties but i did have to familiarise myself with the leadership of plaid cymru and the greens and i'm a bit of a political nerd so for a lot of people out there tonight, this will be an introduction. irate there tonight, this will be an introduction.— there tonight, this will be an introduction. ~ ::' :: ., introduction. we saw in 2010 that nick clea . introduction. we saw in 2010 that nick clegg was — introduction. we saw in 2010 that nick clegg was an _ introduction. we saw in 2010 that nick clegg was an introduction i introduction. we saw in 2010 that nick clegg was an introduction to | nick clegg was an introduction to many people then so i imagine that some of the participants will be hoping to get this kind of exposure that only happens potentially once every five years so an enormous opportunity from them but that in itself brings pressure and a desire to really get involved. with seven people effectively i'll try to grab the limelight at the same time, it could get messy.— the limelight at the same time, it could get messy. sarah thought for moderator- — could get messy. sarah thought for moderator. just _ could get messy. sarah thought for moderator. just a _ could get messy. sarah thought for moderator. just a final _ could get messy. sarah thought for moderator. just a final thought. i could get messy. sarah thought forj moderator. just a final thought. on d—day, there was the fallout set out for us of the apology, how the apollo g will be seen by the public? —— apology. i think they will be viewing it very badly. it takes away time from things they want to talk about and the £2000 claim which they thought was getting some traction but debatable. in terms of topics you don't get much better than posing with world war ii families and world leaders and it was an opportunity missed that turned into a question of competence at that is the key issue here because it raises the question about rishi sunak�*s ability to do the right thing and make the right decisions. individually, these events probably don't have much impact, but the cumulative effect of the seriousness of these events or another one reinforcing existing narratives is what causes real problems for leaders in the run up to an election. leaders in the run up to an election-— leaders in the run up to an election. ., , ., election. the two meet you in the flash. i election. the two meet you in the flash- i have _ election. the two meet you in the flash. i have you _ election. the two meet you in the flash. i have you on _ election. the two meet you in the i flash. i have you on my programme quite a lot but it is sometimes nice to meet in person. what you watch as a poster on nights like this? do you want to meet in person. what you watch as a poster on nights like this? you watch it differently? but i am this? you watch it differently? iei,ii i am looking for this? you watch it differently? elf i am looking for is specifics around whether they are effectively telling the truth or not. flat whether they are effectively telling the truth or not.— the truth or not. not that different. _ the truth or not. not that different. have _ the truth or not. not that different. have we i the truth or not. not that different. have we seen i the truth or not. not that i different. have we seen an the truth or not. not that _ different. have we seen an evolution in thins different. have we seen an evolution in things and — different. have we seen an evolution in things and are _ different. have we seen an evolution in things and are the _ different. have we seen an evolution in things and are the actually - different. have we seen an evolution in things and are the actually true i in things and are the actually true with their claims. it also, but claims do they think will actually land. because sometimes they will say things and you will think, the public don't support that, why are you going for that. of all of the things you could talk about you speak on this niche thing. i'm interested in that and the theatre of it all. why not.— of it all. why not. really nice to see ou of it all. why not. really nice to see you and _ of it all. why not. really nice to see you and thank _ of it all. why not. really nice to see you and thank you very i of it all. why not. really nice to i see you and thank you very much. let mejust show you see you and thank you very much. let me just show you around a bit because i'm conscious i'm standing next to the stadium and you don't get a feel for what it is. butjust around here, here is a gb news reporter and loads of tables and a big screen at the end where the debate will be watched and these are the life conditions of sister stations and rival stations will be lining up very shortly. so the spin room always gets a lot busier towards the debate. we will have delegates from various parties coming to talk to us in the next hour or so and then also the politicians will be here to give their spend, and their interpretation of what we have heard. what about people out there in the country? let's go to walk forward, our correspondent has been out in about today and this is what she has been finding out. hi priya. as you are the spin room is warming up as you are the spin room is warming up the market here in the middle of watford towncenter is just winding down but it has not stopped conversations. say hello to leeann who runs one of the market stalls here. hello. i know that you are somebody who we have not met long ago but we have had conversations with people and you say politics does crop up on 80 today when you are buying and selling. it does crop up on 80 today when you are buying and selling.— are buying and selling. it does, certainly- _ are buying and selling. it does, certainly- a _ are buying and selling. it does, certainly. a lot _ are buying and selling. it does, certainly. a lot of— are buying and selling. it does, certainly. a lot of people i are buying and selling. it does, certainly. a lot of people are i certainly. a lot of people are wondering whoever comes into power, are they actually going to still be for the people. are they actually going to still be for the people-— are they actually going to still be for the people. what are some of those issues _ for the people. what are some of those issues that _ for the people. what are some of those issues that you _ for the people. what are some of those issues that you think i for the people. what are some of those issues that you think could | those issues that you think could make people here and watford think they are for the people? for example. — they are for the people? for example, the _ they are for the people? for example, the cost _ they are for the people? er?" example, the cost of living that everyone is going through. everyone is struggling because there has been rent increases, money has gone up with the cost to people buying groceries, food, any essential items. theyjust want groceries, food, any essential items. they just want to groceries, food, any essential items. theyjust want to make sure whoever comes into power is there for them, and there for the people. your friday night plans are winding down here, will you be watching the debate on the bbc this evening? i will be, yes. because it will be who will be, yes. because it will be who will be running our country for us. is there something that you could hear tonight from one of the leaders or seniorfigures involved hear tonight from one of the leaders or senior figures involved that would draw your attention and think, yes, i like the sound of you or that party. yes, i like the sound of you or that la . ., yes, i like the sound of you or that party. someone who says they are auoin to party. someone who says they are going to look at — party. someone who says they are going to look at everything - party. someone who says they are going to look at everything for i going to look at everything for the people with regards to the prices of people's rents. the cost of living for everyone in general. i would definitely go towards that kind of person as i know the public here would also. irate person as i know the public here would also-— person as i know the public here would also. ~ ., ., would also. we have spoken to some --eole would also. we have spoken to some people here — would also. we have spoken to some people here today. — would also. we have spoken to some people here today, be _ would also. we have spoken to some people here today, be it _ would also. we have spoken to some people here today, be it first-time i people here today, be it first—time voters will be at people who have been writing these market stalls for years that there is some apathy and it feels there are two extremes. people who are really engaged and want to have a say because there are issues, as you mentioned, that are passionate about and others who feel their vote does not necessarily make a difference. do you understand and have those conversations as well? definitely. a lot of the people here are basically like, if i do vote, will it even make a difference. the people who who are voting, will do what they say they will do and actually help the people —— the people who are voted in. actually help the people -- the people who are voted in. speaking to eo - le people who are voted in. speaking to people throughout _ people who are voted in. speaking to people throughout the _ people who are voted in. speaking to people throughout the day _ people who are voted in. speaking to people throughout the day it - people who are voted in. speaking to people throughout the day it feels i people throughout the day it feels like a real melting pot of people from different walks of life and of all ages as well. how do you feel like that shapes the town in the way people are thinking about the stuff they want for the town? you people are thinking about the stuff they want for the town?— they want for the town? you are ri . ht. they want for the town? you are right- there _ they want for the town? you are right. there is _ they want for the town? you are right. there is such _ they want for the town? you are right. there is such a _ they want for the town? you are right. there is such a big, i they want for the town? you are right. there is such a big, it i they want for the town? you are right. there is such a big, it is i right. there is such a big, it is very diverse here and watford, but going through something with regards to covid, it has brought loads of people together all of the time. slots people have come together now, it does not matter your colour or age, as far as i'm concerned, a lot of the people are for the people. you're going to watch the election debate this evening. we have snacks at the ready. what is your go to debate set up on the sofa? i5 at the ready. what is your go to debate set up on the sofa? is anyone who sa s debate set up on the sofa? is anyone who says they _ debate set up on the sofa? is anyone who says they are — debate set up on the sofa? is anyone who says they are for _ debate set up on the sofa? is anyone who says they are for the _ debate set up on the sofa? is anyone who says they are for the people, i i who says they are for the people, i suppose me and the family will be there is saying, argue for the people, make sure you are and we will see. it people, make sure you are and we will see. . , , people, make sure you are and we will see. ., , , ., , will see. it has been an interesting da here will see. it has been an interesting day here and _ will see. it has been an interesting day here and watford. _ will see. it has been an interesting day here and watford. one - will see. it has been an interesting day here and watford. one of- will see. it has been an interesting day here and watford. one of the. day here and watford. one of the reasons we are here is because it is an interesting constituency to be watching. the system where the that has been held by the conservatives in the past but not by a large margin. that makes it a hot target for labour. there will be wanting to do well here. but you cannot rule out the influence of the lib dems who dominated our local elections, dominate in the local council as well as the elected mayor. so there are quite a few influences on people here who are politically engaged and issue based engagement as well. studio: thank you for that. we have just seen the co—leader of the greens, carla denyer talking there bbc management. that isjonathan munro from bbc management there welcoming her to new broadcasting house. we will continue to show you each of the leaders as they arrive here. they will be familiarising themselves with the format tonight. maybe going into the studio which is not farfrom us here maybe going into the studio which is not far from us here to get a feel of where things will unfold. lots of people watching up and down the country tonight, different issues, different debates pertaining to different regions and nations. let's go to georgia roberts in glasgow. it seems from the poles of this really is a race between the snp and labour in glasgow. we've lost georgia, was i seeing... i think we will go to chris page in belfast. are you there, chris? i can see you there in front of stormont, looking great. tell us what the stakes are in northern ireland, what will people be watching? the electoral will people be watching? ti2 electoral dynamics in northern ireland are very different to england, scotland and wales — for example, labourand england, scotland and wales — for example, labour and the lib dems don't run candidates here, the conservatives do, but they aren't in with a realistic chance of winning any seats. also you will you have the green standing here and reform are in a partnership with the traditional unionist voice. but there are five other parties here regarded as the main parties, and none of them are actually taking part in tonight's tv debate. it is also the case that most decisions relating to northern ireland, and places like health and transport are made here at stormont, not westminster. that said, there is of course interest in who will form the next westminster government, who will be the next prime minister. so i think there will be a strong degree of interest particularly if issues that are relevant especially to northern ireland, — what could those be? for starters, there's a question of what is the uk's future relationship with the european union, given brexit and the fallout from it has been a huge issue in politics. given that scottish and welsh nationalists are taking part tonight, the issue of the united kingdom could come up, and that's may be the perennial issue in northern ireland, for the 103 years that northern ireland has been in existence, especially that... more nationalist mps returned than unionist for the first time. there's also the issues of public finances, taxation, something all the main parties in northern ireland agree on is that northern ireland and the stormont executive, the default government here should get a higher level of funding. it's notable that per person, northern ireland already gets a high level of public spending then england, scotland or wales. but then england, scotland or wales. but the parties will say because of special circumstances here, this is a post—conflict society, northern ireland still needs more money to run services to the standard people expect. so while there will be no local voices in tonight's debate, ears will perk up if the voices talk on issues that people in northern ireland will be particularly interested in. of course nigel farage, architect of the brexit vote, certainly anything he says might vote, certainly anything he says mih. , ., ., vote, certainly anything he says m|.h|, ., ., ,, , ., might pertain to issues in northern ireland. chris _ might pertain to issues in northern ireland. chris page, _ might pertain to issues in northern ireland. chris page, thanks - might pertain to issues in northern ireland. chris page, thanks for- ireland. chris page, thanks for that. we continue to watch some of the arrivals here in london, but i think we can go now to the regions. can we go to glasgow? i think we can go to glasgow, our colleague in glasgow, georgia roberts, standing by for us. what will they be watching out for scotland? it's a very close poll to make a race between labour and the snp in scotland, what's at stake was yellow with the dynamics and scotland are interesting because the with the dynamics and scotland are interesting becaus— interesting because the polls su: est interesting because the polls suggest labour _ interesting because the polls suggest labour or _ interesting because the polls suggest labour or on - interesting because the polls suggest labour or on the i interesting because the polls suggest labour or on the up, threatening the snp pots long long—held dominance here in scotland. so representative of the snp who are in power in hollyrood, we can perhaps expect stephen flynn to challenge labour's angela rayner a bit more so than some of the others, and perhaps try and tease out some issues that try and make scottish labour's life a bit more difficult here in scotland, for example, labour's position on north sea oil and gas licenses has come under scrutiny here because critics say that will cost hundreds of thousands ofjobs. leave or disagree with that, but also child poverty, a big issue the snp like to talk about here in scotland — there's been attacks from the snp on the's refusal to rule out scrapping the two child benefit cap across the uk. another familiar tag two child benefit cap across the uk. anotherfamiliar tag line two child benefit cap across the uk. another familiar tag line we've heard from the snp in regards to labour as them being so—called tory light, same as the conservatives, especially when it comes to the sticking closely to tight budget plans, tight conservative spending plans, tight conservative spending plans, and john swinney, the leader of the snp, has been warning in recent days what that might mean in terms of potential public service cuts down the line. so we can expect to hear a lot about that from stephen flynn tonight. certainly there was criticism after the head—to—head between rishi sunak and keir starmer earlier this week that scotland didn't get much of a mention — i think that's guaranteed, given who is on the panel, a bit more mention tonight. georgia, thanks very _ more mention tonight. georgia, thanks very much _ more mention tonight. georgia, thanks very much indeed - more mention tonight. georgia, thanks very much indeed for i more mention tonight. georgia, i thanks very much indeed for that. let's go to cardiff — it's been quite a week in wales, a vote of no—confidence in the first minister, and on the stage night, the leader of plaid cymru. what will they be looking out for? illa of plaid cymru. what will they be looking out for?— of plaid cymru. what will they be looking out for? no doubt they'll be brinuain looking out for? no doubt they'll be bringing that _ looking out for? no doubt they'll be bringing that vote _ looking out for? no doubt they'll be bringing that vote of _ looking out for? no doubt they'll be bringing that vote of no-confidence | bringing that vote of no—confidence tonight, he'll be the only one bringing in wales into the debate... not having much luck reaching the nations. we will see if we can bring him back later in the programme. our political correspondent leila nathoo is with me. just looking at some of the lines about the manifesto which labour has been putting the final touches to today, we were talking about there's a line in there about recognising future palestinian statehood before the processes agreed. but there's some news about the role the unions have played in today's debate around the manifesto, but are you hearing? just a quick recap for anyone joining us, labour has been holding this big meeting today in secret, clause five, this formal process where the manifesto is formally adopted into the party and its union backers. it's a very secretive meeting, you have to have numbered copies of the documents, phones handed in, they don't want things getting out. but we understand in the last few minutes that one of labour's biggest backers, a major donor to the labour party, is not endorsing the labour manifesto. now we understand this is over concerns about the party's position specifically on one of its commitments in cerner workers' rights, so of course we will hear more about it but we've heard for a long time now that labour plans as big package of reforms to give workers more rights in employment. there's been a bit of back—and—forth between labour and some of the trade unions for quite a while now about whether some of the commitments that were made earlier on, months or years ago, have ended up being watered down. some of the accusations from the late of the party have been that business has essentially come in and said, "we aren't happy about this," and labour has tried to marry the two sides and have come down a bit closer on the side of what business wants compared to what the unions want. so we know that unite, a major trade union, one of labour's biggest backers, have had long—standing concerns about what they perceived to be a watering down of some of the commitments — for example, a band to supposedly n0 our contracts, this has been reported to a ban on predatory zero—hour contracts. banning fire and rehire — labour had promised a band that, it seems there's some concern about rolling back on that, perhaps allowing it back in certain situations. but i think that is certainly an interesting development. also getting some comment from momentum moore, a group reflecting the left of the party, talking about disappointment moore on labour's and also to scrap the two child benefit, something labour has been under pressure for quite some time now. quite interesting these details are emerging now. tithe now. quite interesting these details are emerging now.— now. quite interesting these details are emerging now. one of the words i heard this afternoon _ are emerging now. one of the words i heard this afternoon was _ are emerging now. one of the words i heard this afternoon was cautious, i heard this afternoon was cautious, which has been the general approach that the leader has taken throughout. if your 20 points ahead of in the polls, why would you rock the boat? there's been poles around house buying what truly matters to a lot of young people and renters up—and—down the country, there's a commitment to extend the mortgage guarantee scheme, what they call freedom to buy, and also a bold, punchy promise to build 1.5 million homes in the uk. there are other governments who have made lofty ambitions in their manifestos regarding house—building who have not met them. so how will they do it? , ,., not met them. so how will they do it? , ., ., it? on the broader point of what we can exect it? on the broader point of what we can expect from _ it? on the broader point of what we can expect from the labour - it? on the broader point of what we i can expect from the labour manifesto itself, i was travelling with keir starmer last week on the campaign trail and what you heard over and over again from him, trail and what you heard over and overagainfrom him, no trail and what you heard over and over again from him, no surprises in the manifesto. what we are expecting from labour is a lot of what we've heard already. they've set up their stall, talked about their missions, the first things they want to prioritise when they get into government — i don't think there'll be something explosive in there that we haven't heard anything off before, and it's come out of nowhere. labour have been playing it safe, we understand documents, 30 odd pages or so meeting the tone we've expected. on the house—building point, they are certainly putting that front and centre of their offering, their big plan is to build reform planning laws to allow housing law, for more houses to be built. it's an existing policy, something that was brought in under the conservative government, it's currently due to expire — when the government guarantees loans for first—time buyers — labour says they want to keep it. buyers - labour says they want to kee it. �* , . buyers - labour says they want to kee it. 3 .,, keep it. it's a big help for people who don't have _ keep it. it's a big help for people who don't have a _ keep it. it's a big help for people who don't have a large _ keep it. it's a big help for people | who don't have a large deposit for keep it. it's a big help for people i who don't have a large deposit for a house. 6.6 million people living with their parents, much harder to get onto the housing ladder. nicky schiller is outside watching each of the leaders come in. we've only seen the leaders come in. we've only seen the co—leader of the greens. you the leaders come in. we've only seen the co-leader of the greens.- the co-leader of the greens. you are riaht, it's the co-leader of the greens. you are right. it's spot _ the co-leader of the greens. you are right, it's spot the _ the co-leader of the greens. you are right, it's spot the politician - the co-leader of the greens. you are right, it's spot the politician time i right, it's spot the politician time outside _ right, it's spot the politician time outside broadcasting house, members of staff— outside broadcasting house, members of staff heading home after the day all wondering what's going on, why we are _ all wondering what's going on, why we are focusing on our cameras on the entrance — we are focusing on our cameras on the entrance that they normally come into. the entrance that they normally come into so _ the entrance that they normally come into. so she's come in and the last half hour~ — into. so she's come in and the last half hour. we are expecting that may be the _ half hour. we are expecting that may be the snp _ half hour. we are expecting that may be the snp westminster leader, stephen — be the snp westminster leader, stephen flynn, will be next. right beside _ stephen flynn, will be next. right beside me — is our big boss, director of journalism, jonathan munro, and also hillary— journalism, jonathan munro, and also hillary o'neill. they are waiting to greet— hillary o'neill. they are waiting to greet the — hillary o'neill. they are waiting to greet the leaders as they come in for the _ greet the leaders as they come in for the debate. over the next hour, we will— for the debate. over the next hour, we will see — for the debate. over the next hour, we will see all seven of them arrive at broadcasting house. and members of the _ at broadcasting house. and members of the audience are arriving at another— of the audience are arriving at another entrance because there will be around _ another entrance because there will be around 120 members of the audience — be around 120 members of the audience who will be asking the questions. they've been able to submit — questions. they've been able to submit questions in advance, but as they arrive, — submit questions in advance, but as they arrive, they are allowed to put in new _ they arrive, they are allowed to put in new questions if something has happened — in new questions if something has happened during the day. and we've been talking about that apology by rishi sunak over d—day — so it may be that's— rishi sunak over d—day — so it may be that's the — rishi sunak over d—day — so it may be that's the point that members of the audience who come in may want to submit _ the audience who come in may want to submit that— the audience who come in may want to submit that question. and of course there _ submit that question. and of course there are _ submit that question. and of course there are also other questions that will be _ there are also other questions that will be taken from viewers at home. nowjonathan munro earlier on the bbc new— nowjonathan munro earlier on the bbc new channel —— news channel said is that— bbc new channel —— news channel said is that all— bbc new channel —— news channel said is that all the _ bbc new channel —— news channel said is that all the questions will come in and _ is that all the questions will come in and around 6pm, the production team _ in and around 6pm, the production team will— in and around 6pm, the production team will sit down and decide which questions _ team will sit down and decide which questions will be asked during the debate _ questions will be asked during the debate. now because it's only 90 minutes, — debate. now because it's only 90 minutes, you won't get lots and lots of questions. mr munro said he probably— of questions. mr munro said he probably thought there would be about _ probably thought there would be about 6—7 questions that will be put to the _ about 6—7 questions that will be put to the representative as of the seven— to the representative as of the seven parties who are here tonight to answer~ — seven parties who are here tonight to answer. it'll be interesting — i know— to answer. it'll be interesting — i know you've _ to answer. it'll be interesting — i know you've been talking about this, how the _ know you've been talking about this, how the debate goes, and our colleague michelle will be putting it all together and putting it all in order~ — it all together and putting it all in order. it'll be interesting to see if— in order. it'll be interesting to see if there is that knock—about like there — see if there is that knock—about like there was in the debate on tuesday— like there was in the debate on tuesday between rishi sunak and sir keir starmer, orwhether tuesday between rishi sunak and sir keir starmer, or whether it is a bit more _ keir starmer, or whether it is a bit more measured because there are seven— more measured because there are seven politicians taking part who all want — seven politicians taking part who all want to get their point of view over~ _ all want to get their point of view over~ it'll— all want to get their point of view over. it'llalso all want to get their point of view over. it'll also be interesting, a lot of— over. it'll also be interesting, a lot of the — over. it'll also be interesting, a lot of the social media comment after— lot of the social media comment after that— lot of the social media comment after that debate on tuesday was whether— after that debate on tuesday was whether the politicians were actually _ whether the politicians were actually answering the questions that were asked, and we will see if that were asked, and we will see if that happens. it looks like a car has drawn— that happens. it looks like a car has drawn up and you can probably see there — has drawn up and you can probably see there are a lot of police around, _ see there are a lot of police around, so maybe that will be stephen — around, so maybe that will be stephen flynn. that's one of those where _ stephen flynn. that's one of those where you — stephen flynn. that's one of those where you want to go, "he's behind you." _ where you want to go, "he's behind you." as _ where you want to go, "he's behind you." as they— where you want to go, "he's behind you," as they arrive, but all the politicians — you," as they arrive, but all the politicians that will be taking part - we _ politicians that will be taking part — we actually have daisy cooper, the deputy leader of the liberal democrats — she surprised me, she's arrived _ democrats — she surprised me, she's arrived being — democrats — she surprised me, she's arrived being greeted here outside broadcasting house by the director ofjournalism, jonathan munro, and also hillary— ofjournalism, jonathan munro, and also hillary o'neill, from our westminster team. also hillary o'neill, from our westminsterteam. daisy also hillary o'neill, from our westminster team. daisy cooper is the deputy leader from the liberal democrats representing the liberal democrats representing the liberal democrats during this debate that we have got— democrats during this debate that we have got here today at broadcasting house _ have got here today at broadcasting house. she is not only the party's deputy— house. she is not only the party's deputy leader, but also their spokesperson for health and social care, _ spokesperson for health and social care, elected an mp back in 2019. so she will_ care, elected an mp back in 2019. so she will be _ care, elected an mp back in 2019. so she will be represented in the liberal— she will be represented in the liberal democrats here during the debate _ liberal democrats here during the debate today, christian. we've got two of— debate today, christian. we've got two of them inside, we still have five others — two of them inside, we still have five others to arrive over the next hour— five others to arrive over the next hour or _ five others to arrive over the next hour or so — five others to arrive over the next hour or so-_ five others to arrive over the next hour or so. thank you so much for that. it's like — hour or so. thank you so much for that. it's like fa _ hour or so. thank you so much for that. it's like fa cup _ that. it's like fa cup today, watching them all go down the tunnel for the big event. we will continue to bring you the arrivals inside new broadcasting house. let's go back to cardiff and see if we can make contact. takeit take it away, what will people in wales be watching tonight? i don't know how much _ wales be watching tonight? i don't know how much you _ wales be watching tonight? i don't know how much you heard - wales be watching tonight? i don't know how much you heard earlier, | know how much you heard earlier, but you mentioned that vote of no—confidence that took place in cardiff... wednesday, now apply to come we will be attacking labour because — we are gone again. {30 because - we are gone again. go on, carry-on. — because - we are gone again. go on, carry-on. it — because - we are gone again. go on, carry-on, it actually _ because - we are gone again. go on, carry-on, it actuallyjust _ because - we are gone again. go on, carry-on, it actuallyjust back. i carry—on, it actuallyjust back. just rolled the dice, i was never goodin just rolled the dice, i was never good in the casino. thank you very much for that. we will have all seven parties represented here at the table tonight. with me is now baroness asia as rate, also a panelist on my programme. that's my favourite gig- — panelist on my programme. that's my favourite gig. and _ panelist on my programme. that's my favourite gig. and sarah _ panelist on my programme. that's my favourite gig. and sarah michelle i favourite gig. and sarah michelle from the media _ favourite gig. and sarah michelle from the media advisory - favourite gig. and sarah michelle i from the media advisory conservative party, welcome to you as well. what should we talk about?— should we talk about? where to beuin? should we talk about? where to begin? the _ should we talk about? where to begin? the elephant _ should we talk about? where to begin? the elephant in - should we talk about? where to begin? the elephant in the i should we talk about? where to i begin? the elephant in the room. we were “ust begin? the elephant in the room. we were just saying _ begin? the elephant in the room. we were just saying that _ begin? the elephant in the room. we were just saying that when _ begin? the elephant in the room. we were just saying that when they - begin? the elephant in the room. we were just saying that when they take | were just saying that when they take to the stage tonight, surely they'll focus first and foremost on d—day? the fact that it will be penny mourdaunt and not the prime minister will mourdaunt and not the prime minister wil a; mourdaunt and not the prime minister will offer some rest bite, but i understand — will offer some rest bite, but i understand from _ will offer some rest bite, but i understand from nigel farage's to eat, that'll be a big emphasis. i eat, that'll be a big emphasis. i think the overall picture is that every— think the overall picture is that every party will go for the conservative representative because they've _ conservative representative because they've each got something to gain from it _ they've each got something to gain from it. there'll be lots of standing _ from it. there'll be lots of standing back from other parties and i'm afraid _ standing back from other parties and i'm afraid penny will be in for quite — i'm afraid penny will be in for quite a — i'm afraid penny will be in for quite a tough this evening. daughter of a paratr00per. _ quite a tough this evening. daughter of a paratrooper, reservist _ quite a tough this evening. daughter of a paratrooper, reservist in - quite a tough this evening. daughter of a paratrooper, reservist in the - of a paratrooper, reservist in the navy, honorary commander in the navy — but i thought layla matthew made a good point, you can look to the future and think erie future leadership candidate, but also she's running as a candidate and she only has a 15,000 majority — i say only, but looking at the polls at the moment, she has to win — so she has to do something to support the party. to do something to support the -a . �* to do something to support the .a _ �* , �* , to do something to support the party. and she's quite a good performer— party. and she's quite a good performer in _ party. and she's quite a good performer in these _ party. and she's quite a good| performer in these instances, party. and she's quite a good i performer in these instances, so at the dispatch in the commons, she's famed _ the dispatch in the commons, she's famed for— the dispatch in the commons, she's famed for being a good performer. also the _ famed for being a good performer. also the dynamic of not having party leaders _ also the dynamic of not having party leaders will give other people an opportunity to shine — but also i think— opportunity to shine — but also i think it — opportunity to shine — but also i think it will _ opportunity to shine — but also i think it will be more entertaining, and what — think it will be more entertaining, and what i — think it will be more entertaining, and what i mean by that is a bit more _ and what i mean by that is a bit more relatable. there's a lot of these _ more relatable. there's a lot of these debates they can become quite dense _ these debates they can become quite dense and _ these debates they can become quite dense and technocratic, i think both party leaders are guilty of that from _ party leaders are guilty of that from time to time. i think having penny— from time to time. i think having penny mourdaunt and angela rayner in this setting might be a bit more interesting and relatable, and she actually— interesting and relatable, and she actually might deal with that issue around _ actually might deal with that issue around d—day with more deafness than we've _ around d—day with more deafness than we've seen— around d—day with more deafness than we've seen so far. both around d-day with more deafness than we've seen so far.— we've seen so far. both of them face each other at — we've seen so far. both of them face each other at prime _ we've seen so far. both of them face each other at prime minister's - each other at prime minister's questions from time to time, so they are used to this. but what about the other leaders goes back they were saying to joe other leaders goes back they were saying tojoe twyman earlier that for them, saying tojoe twyman earlier that forthem, it's saying tojoe twyman earlier that for them, it's an introduction to the nation. it for them, it's an introduction to the nation-— the nation. it is, and there are some really — the nation. it is, and there are some really good _ the nation. it is, and there are some really good performers, | the nation. it is, and there are - some really good performers, and there are people who naturally like this stage. stephen flynn, the westminster leader of the snp, is a firecracker mp, he often has very good sharp lines. i've done questions with him and he always comes out swinging. daisy cooper is a skilled performer as well. but i think the people to watch for are definitely angela rayner — we haven't seen much of angela rayner because there was the whole ludicrous police investigation into her house, so she was held back for quite a while. now she'll be unleashed for the first time to the public. penny mourdaunt, potential leadership candidate, and also nigel farage. so i think if you look at the head—to—head between the two leaders, it was quite dry — but this will be like east enders christmas special. i think they'll come out really punching hard. i think she's right, everything will be touch everyone will repeat piling on the conservatives for two things. there was a lie set about the tax stuff in the last one, and d—day, but i don't think angela rayner will get away scott free because it's in some of the party's interest to pile on labour and the snp.— the party's interest to pile on labour and the snp. she's to the left of the _ labour and the snp. she's to the left of the party. _ labour and the snp. she's to the left of the party, and there's - labour and the snp. she's to the | left of the party, and there's been a row this afternoon around the manifesto, unite went entirely on board with it, and when you think about nuclear deterrent, she might go her own way tonight on the manifesto. i go her own way tonight on the manifeste— manifesto. i don't think she'll be shootin: manifesto. i don't think she'll be shooting from — manifesto. i don't think she'll be shooting from the _ manifesto. i don't think she'll be shooting from the hip _ manifesto. i don't think she'll be shooting from the hip on - manifesto. i don't think she'll be shooting from the hip on the - shooting from the hip on the manifesto because that is so tightly controlled. but where you could see the greens and snp attacking labour is from the left on issues like austerity, tax also the issue of gaza as well, which is still a sensitive issue. but the interesting thing about angela rayner is she loves a fight. she doesn't get frightened by pmqs, when i've interviewed her, she says she relishes it. a punchy performance. lots of policies ahead of the debate for something to talk about. let's talk about what we got one by one tonight, first of all child benefits, from the conservatives, which was universal in 2013, but now it's quite complex. you don't get child benefits if you earn over £60,000, but now they are raising the cap up to £120,000, and it'll be per household. isn't thatjust per household. isn't that just too convoluted? why notjust refer set to being universal? convoluted? why not 'ust refer set to being universal?_ to being universal? there's a cost to being universal? there's a cost to it being — to being universal? there's a cost to it being universal, _ to being universal? there's a cost to it being universal, but- to being universal? there's a cost to it being universal, but one - to it being universal, but one the conservatives want to do is to show a core _ conservatives want to do is to show a core conservative vote that party and leadership are still on their side _ and leadership are still on their side so— and leadership are still on their side. so you've seen things around pensioners. — side. so you've seen things around pensioners, you've now seen what they're _ pensioners, you've now seen what they're doing for families, income families — they're doing for families, income families. you can follow that strategy _ families. you can follow that strategy in the logic behind that. but i _ strategy in the logic behind that. but i also — strategy in the logic behind that. but i also think there's a diminishing return, and there's also the lilr— diminishing return, and there's also the lib dems, that metropolitan centre. — the lib dems, that metropolitan centre, the left of the conservative party— centre, the left of the conservative party that — centre, the left of the conservative party that may not be swayed by something like that which is a pure cost—of—living exercise. so i think there's— cost—of—living exercise. so i think there's lots — cost—of—living exercise. so i think there's lots of movement that will happen in— there's lots of movement that will happen in some of these economic policies. _ happen in some of these economic policies, and whether it's enough to bring _ policies, and whether it's enough to bring lrack— policies, and whether it's enough to bring back that core vote remains to be seen _ bring back that core vote remains to be seen. ., , .,, ., , be seen. housing was a big thing for labour this morning, _ be seen. housing was a big thing for labour this morning, they _ be seen. housing was a big thing for labour this morning, they pledged l be seen. housing was a big thing for| labour this morning, they pledged to build 1.5 million homes, which is a bold promise when you've looked at previous governments. how will they do it? , ., ., previous governments. how will they doit? , ., ., , do it? they want to make significant chances do it? they want to make significant chan . es to do it? they want to make significant changes to planning _ do it? they want to make significant changes to planning reform, - do it? they want to make significant changes to planning reform, to - do it? they want to make significant changes to planning reform, to sort| changes to planning reform, to sort of free up the building of housing. they want to bring back those targets so that people are really focused on this. there were some other ideas about helping people to buy — housing is such a core issue for this country, particularly those younger voters, for this country, particularly those youngervoters, housing for this country, particularly those younger voters, housing is one of the reasons why a lot of voters in this traditional tory heartlands are beginning to swing away from the conservatives. notjust for them but they are worried that their children and grandchildren can't get on the housing ladder, something we've always taken for granted in this country. if you work hard and get a job, at some point in your late 20s, early 30s, you should be able to get a house and start a family. that's not happening, sol a house and start a family. that's not happening, so i think keir starmer... not happening, so i think keir starmer- - -_ not happening, so i think keir starmer... �*, ., ., starmer. .. there's a two-tier system develo - inc starmer. .. there's a two-tier system developing if— starmer. .. there's a two-tier system developing if you've _ starmer. .. there's a two-tier system developing if you've got _ starmer. .. there's a two-tier system developing if you've got the - starmer. .. there's a two-tier system developing if you've got the bank - starmer. .. there's a two-tier system developing if you've got the bank of i developing if you've got the bank of mum and dad, and mum and dad even with this mortgage guarantee scheme, they can give you the deposit, you can get on the latter. but so many people who don't have that have no chance of getting there. i did housina chance of getting there. i did housing and _ chance of getting there. i did housing and government when i was a special— housing and government when i was a special adviser, and a lot of what labour— special adviser, and a lot of what labour is — special adviser, and a lot of what labour is saying is a continuation of what _ labour is saying is a continuation of what the — labour is saying is a continuation of what the conservatives have done. so a big _ of what the conservatives have done. so a big part — of what the conservatives have done. so a big part of what they've said is a big _ so a big part of what they've said is a big michael gove pledge, making places— is a big michael gove pledge, making places that are beautiful. you are absolutely — places that are beautiful. you are absolutely right, that deposit peace, — absolutely right, that deposit peace, what you're doing in terms of having _ peace, what you're doing in terms of having the _ peace, what you're doing in terms of having the capital from the beginning is required. back in 2010, there was— beginning is required. back in 2010, there was help to buy a under george osborne, _ there was help to buy a under george osborne, and the mortgage guarantee scheme _ osborne, and the mortgage guarantee scheme is _ osborne, and the mortgage guarantee scheme is a _ osborne, and the mortgage guarantee scheme is a version of that. a lot of people — scheme is a version of that. a lot of people could see it as a positive but the _ of people could see it as a positive but the difficulty is even though there _ but the difficulty is even though there is— but the difficulty is even though there is a — but the difficulty is even though there is a guarantee, there has to be questions around the affordability on housing. that's a fair oint, affordability on housing. that's a fair point, but _ affordability on housing. that's a fair point, but the _ affordability on housing. that's a fair point, but the broader - affordability on housing. that's a fair point, but the broader plan | fair point, but the broader plan behind labour's ideas is to get more houses built. affordable housing has to be the pa rt part of it. if you were to buy a house at that value where i'm from in birmingham, you would be a millionaire, you could buy a big house for that. but in london, could you get a flat for central london for 600,000?— you get a flat for central london for 600,000? ., ., , , for 600,000? you would be struggling to that date -- — for 600,000? you would be struggling to that date -- these _ for 600,000? you would be struggling to that date -- these days. _ for 600,000? you would be struggling to that date -- these days. that's - to that date —— these days. that's why actual building is so important, and these changes to planning reform and these changes to planning reform and permission is really important as well. lots of developers and housing experts i've spoken to have said, "look, this is such a key thing to unlocking growth in this country, building more houses and other infrastructure." so i think they are right to focus on this. the onl thin they are right to focus on this. the only thing i — they are right to focus on this. the only thing i would say on planning, and believe me i've gone through so many— and believe me i've gone through so many changes in the planning framework, is it's got to be a locally— framework, is it's got to be a locally led _ framework, is it's got to be a locally led thing as well. just -aointin locally led thing as well. just pointing it — locally led thing as well. just pointing it to _ locally led thing as well. just pointing it to the _ locally led thing as well. jut pointing it to the screen because angela rayner is here, deputy leader of the labour party. quite good time, as well, hourand of the labour party. quite good time, as well, hour and a half. you've advised leaders before on nights like this — do you like to get your candidate there early? definitely, there's nothing worse than arriving to a big gig like this when there's problems with traffic and your flustered anyway, if you want to get you and your team in situ, you want to get your hair and makeup sorted out, relax, feel comfortable, just spend some time in the building. this is true for anybody who does public speaking when you just turn up by the skin of your teeth, when you just turn up by the skin of yourteeth, it's when you just turn up by the skin of your teeth, it's not the best way to prepare yourself for a big outing like this. ~ ., prepare yourself for a big outing like this. ~ . ., , like this. what about in the studio? when i use — like this. what about in the studio? when i use to _ like this. what about in the studio? when i use to present _ like this. what about in the studio? when i use to present with katty i when i use to present with katty kay, i was always turning up the air conditioning, i get quite cold, and she was always turning it down. who gets dibs on how cold or warm it is? between several them this evening, they'll— between several them this evening, they'lliust_ between several them this evening, they'lljust half to take whatever they'lljust half to take whatever the director does. i they'lljust half to take whatever the director does.— the director does. i think the menopausal _ the director does. i think the menopausal woman - the director does. i think the menopausal woman gets - the director does. i think the - menopausal woman gets control! laughter that's me, so we have dominant. that's me, so we have dominant. that's definitely the case in my house. but do those things count? what you don't want is that look where. .. what you don't want is that look where... i was thinking of previous candidates who take theirjacket off — remember tony blair who was wearing a blue shirt and started to sweat — you don't want any of that. it's better to have a slightly cooler, i'm notjust saying this is a menopausal woman, cooler, i'm notjust saying this is a menopausalwoman, but cooler, i'm notjust saying this is a menopausal woman, but it's better to have it cooler because nobody wants to get the beads of sweat, nobody wants that. it’s wants to get the beads of sweat, nobody wants that.— nobody wants that. it's a classic nixon kennedy _ nobody wants that. it's a classic nixon kennedy moment, - nobody wants that. it's a classic| nixon kennedy moment, people nobody wants that. it's a classic - nixon kennedy moment, people who heard _ nixon kennedy moment, people who heard him _ nixon kennedy moment, people who heard him on the radio thought nixon won, and _ heard him on the radio thought nixon won, and people who saw it on the tv thought— won, and people who saw it on the tv thought kennedy one. i'm sure you've done as— thought kennedy one. i'm sure you've done as an _ thought kennedy one. i'm sure you've done as an adviser, what's the shirt colour look— done as an adviser, what's the shirt colour look like? is there enough powder? all that stuff — minute things— powder? all that stuff — minute things that help your principal get comfortable when they are there so they don't— comfortable when they are there so they don't have to think about that and they— they don't have to think about that and they can focus on the debate. another— and they can focus on the debate. another thing is where you are stood, because that makes a difference as well. if you are really out on the end, that makes it difficult to come in and intervene. we actually drew lots for that. normally they draw lots, which is the fairest way of doing it. the other thing which is really important is to work with your boss so they know where the camera is if they do want to make an appointment. all these things are really important, and also the height of your boss, because i've advised women and sometimes if the lectern is too high — all these details. again, they sound trite and trivial but they are really important. if you are shorter than everybody else, and your lectern is really hot, that's a bad look. i and your lectern is really hot, that's a bad look.— and your lectern is really hot, that's a bad look. i worked for a very short _ that's a bad look. i worked for a very short mp — that's a bad look. i worked for a very short mp wants, _ that's a bad look. i worked for a very short mp wants, and - that's a bad look. i worked for a very short mp wants, and at - very short mp wants, and at conference we used to have to pull out a _ conference we used to have to pull out a box _ conference we used to have to pull out a box on — conference we used to have to pull out a box on stage before they had those _ out a box on stage before they had those moving lecterns, and it was always— those moving lecterns, and it was always embarrassing.— those moving lecterns, and it was always embarrassing. angela rayner is in, always embarrassing. angela rayner is in. labour — always embarrassing. angela rayner is in, labour read. _ always embarrassing. angela rayner is in, labour read. you _ always embarrassing. angela rayner is in, labour read. you would've - is in, labour read. you would've been blue, not green. i is in, labour read. you would've been blue, not green.— is in, labour read. you would've been blue, not green. i think out to a big debate — been blue, not green. i think out to a big debate like _ been blue, not green. i think out to a big debate like this _ been blue, not green. i think out to a big debate like this wearing - been blue, not green. i think out to a big debate like this wearing blue i a big debate like this wearing blue — you'rejust inviting a big debate like this wearing blue — you're just inviting the comments. unless you're doing that by design, you're _ unless you're doing that by design, you're trying to say something. i�*m you're trying to say something. i'm a ve you're trying to say something. i�*m a very conscious man with my tie. can ijust a very conscious man with my tie. can i just say, a very conscious man with my tie. can ijust say, it a very conscious man with my tie. can i just say, it says a very conscious man with my tie. can ijust say, it says nothing! i'm bbc impartial, but it's the only one i've got. bbc impartial, but it's the only one i've not. ., ., �*, i've got. the other thing that's important _ i've got. the other thing that's important is — i've got. the other thing that's important is to _ i've got. the other thing that's important is to make - i've got. the other thing that's important is to make sure - i've got. the other thing that's important is to make sure you | i've got. the other thing that's - important is to make sure you don't leave your notes. i watched ed miliband —— i worked for ed miliband, he left his notes on the lectern afterwards, and they got swiped by the sun newspaper and all the tactics were written up. so you have to have your wits about you right at the beginning till the end, and how you leave the stage is really important. you don't want to be tripping up or anything like that, footwear... i be tripping up or anything like that, footwear...— be tripping up or anything like that, footwear... ithink about notes, there's _ that, footwear... ithink about notes, there's been _ that, footwear... ithink about notes, there's been a - that, footwear... ithink about notes, there's been a real - that, footwear... i think about. notes, there's been a real circus about the manifestos — secret and rooms, unnamed venues, where do you do it, how do you hide what you notes next week? you've been involved in that, both of you, how under wraps as a manifesto several days out? it absolutely has to be. under lock and ke , it absolutely has to be. under lock and key, practically. _ it absolutely has to be. under lock and key, practically. someone - it absolutely has to be. under lock and key, practically. someone like me who— and key, practically. someone like me who was not involved in the writing — me who was not involved in the writing process even at this point will not _ writing process even at this point will not have had access to the manifesto. i think even now there will be _ manifesto. i think even now there will be cabinet ministers in china cabinet _ will be cabinet ministers in china cabinet ministers who will not have seen _ cabinet ministers who will not have seen what — cabinet ministers who will not have seen what is relevant and pertinent to their— seen what is relevant and pertinent to their briefs on the manifesto. gn to their briefs on the manifesto. on that to their briefs on the manifesto. that issue to their briefs on the manifesto. on that issue within this government, do you think, thinking about the national service announcement, which the ministerfor defence national service announcement, which the minister for defence had said would not be there just two days earlier, has that bunker mentality and policy by very small committee been a problem for the conservatives?- been a problem for the conservatives? ~' �* , ., conservatives? think there's a roblem conservatives? think there's a problem with _ conservatives? think there's a problem with that _ conservatives? think there's a problem with that in _ conservatives? think there's a problem with that in all - conservatives? think there's a | problem with that in all parties. conservatives? think there's a i problem with that in all parties. i think— problem with that in all parties. i think the — problem with that in all parties. i think the one thing i would say about— think the one thing i would say about this announcement that i would hearken _ about this announcement that i would hearken back to was the social care policy _ hearken back to was the social care policy 2070 — hearken back to was the social care policy 2070 which arguably which is the point _ policy 2070 which arguably which is the point at which theresa may's down _ the point at which theresa may's down slide started in that election campaign — down slide started in that election campaign. sol down slide started in that election campaign. so i think if you have a solid _ campaign. so i think if you have a solid team, — campaign. so i think if you have a solid team, openness is what you should _ solid team, openness is what you should go— solid team, openness is what you should go for. solid team, openness is what you should go for-— solid team, openness is what you should no for. .., , ., should go for. here comes the leader ofthe should go for. here comes the leader of the snp in — should go for. here comes the leader of the snp in the _ should go for. here comes the leader of the snp in the house _ should go for. here comes the leader of the snp in the house of _ should go for. here comes the leader| of the snp in the house of commons, steve flynn, who is pretty sharp. looks pretty sharp. i think you will be one to watch tonight and he will have some clear attack lines that he will want to land have some clear attack lines that he will want to [and so i think he is going to be going out quickly and go on the attack with the conservatives attacking labour who is doing well in scotland who is the big competition to the snp and attacking nigel farage very hard in terms of his rhetoric. but stephen flynn is very articulate and very confident as well. so definitely want to watch tonight. as well. so definitely want to watch toni . ht. , as well. so definitely want to watch toniaht. , _, ., ., tonight. open collar for the arrival. i'm _ tonight. open collar for the arrival. i'm thinking - tonight. open collar for the arrival. i'm thinking now. tonight. open collar for the - arrival. i'm thinking now whether if they should wear ties in this debate. i they should wear ties in this debate. ~ , ., , , debate. i think he probably will put a tie on for — debate. i think he probably will put a tie on for the _ debate. i think he probably will put a tie on for the respect _ debate. i think he probably will put a tie on for the respect the - debate. i think he probably will put a tie on for the respect the debate | a tie on for the respect the debate commands. but going back to the manifesto, it is interesting talking about leaked manifesto taking me back to 2017 when jeremy about leaked manifesto taking me back to 2017 whenjeremy corbin was leader bringing up theresa may and the entire manifesto leaked a couple of days before the announcement and it was an absolute disaster. that happens rarely and of course political parties will brief out bits of the manifesto you've seen in the labour party do that but that the labour party do that but that the whole kit and caboodle given to journalists was horrendous. absolutely horrendous so no political party what's to go through that. it political party what's to go through that. , ., ,., political party what's to go through that. , ., ., that. it is about control in managing _ that. it is about control in managing what _ that. it is about control in managing what your - that. it is about control in - managing what your campaign is that. it is about control in _ managing what your campaign is going to say— managing what your campaign is going to say and _ managing what your campaign is going to say and discipline. but within that, _ to say and discipline. but within that, i_ to say and discipline. but within that, i think it is important that the top — that, i think it is important that the top team are always involved in fuel part _ the top team are always involved in fuel part of— the top team are always involved in fuel part of the machine and what that vision— fuel part of the machine and what that vision is supposed to be. it�*s that vision is supposed to be. it's been that vision is supposed to he. been lovely that vision is supposed to be. it�*s been lovely having you at the table and we will talk more perhaps through the course of the evening. we have just seen some aerial shots of new broadcasting house, where i walk into work every day. it is going home time for a lot of people, but it has been sealed off, the plaza outside. new broadcasting house tonight and that of course is because there is a lot of people who are arriving here to talk to the debate that we will focus on in the next hour. saying hello to lord fox who has justjoined next hour. saying hello to lord fox who hasjustjoined me. business spokesman for the liberal democrats. lovely to have you alongside. looking forward to the debate. we have seen daisy cooper at the deputy leader of the party arriving a few moments ago. what are you hoping for tonight? i moments ago. what are you hoping for toniaht? ~ , moments ago. what are you hoping for toniaht? ~ _ �*, tonight? i think by everyone's consent we — tonight? i think by everyone's consent we had _ tonight? i think by everyone's consent we had the _ tonight? i think by everyone's consent we had the most - tonight? i think by everyone's - consent we had the most energetic and pains of art and i think daisy will be no less energetic tonight. she has got a great way of getting the message across and we have some good messages to get across. we have the message about social care and how we are going to try to finally get a hold of that problem and the message on more doctors and issues around energy costs and energy costs as a full but i think she will be honing in on the messages people really care about.— really care about. energetic is a aood really care about. energetic is a good word- _ really care about. energetic is a good word. i've _ really care about. energetic is a good word. i've seen _ really care about. energetic is a good word. i've seen daisy - really care about. energetic is a i good word. i've seen daisy cooper drifting past rishi sunak behind him on a boat. i've seen the leader play games on the lawn with a bluejango and brushing an exercise ball and we have seen him on lake windermere he is having the time of his life. the aood is having the time of his life. the good thing _ is having the time of his life. the good thing is _ is having the time of his life. iia: good thing is is it is having the time of his life. i““ia: good thing is is it is cutting through and giving us a platform to get across the serious part of our message. of course it is great to have fun, there's no reason why politics should be serious all the time because we want people to engage and to engage, you have to be fun and energetic and you have to have a warmth. i think what ed davey has shown and what dc as well is a warmth and empathy for people which is what they are looking for. m0 is what they are looking for. no disrespect to daisy but why is the leader not here? the disrespect to daisy but why is the leader not here?— disrespect to daisy but why is the leader not here? the leader is not here because _ leader not here? the leader is not here because the _ leader not here? the leader is not here because the leaders - leader not here? the leader is not here because the leaders of - leader not here? the leader is not here because the leaders of the i here because the leaders of the other two parties are not. overwhelmingly i think there was a pull a couple of days ago and overwhelmingly people wanted to see all of the leaders together. the way it has worked, it has not happened so we have the deputy leader of the labour party, the non—leader of the conservative party and we have daisy who is great and actually, it is a sign of the quality of the team we have got. he talked about the social plan. the announcement today was around maternity pay and also a daddy month which i quite like. i will come to whether you can cost it or not, but i remember when my daughter was born, my first born, suddenly i was back at work and i thought, hang on, you i not get to spend any time with her and i was not able to help. of the jury is out on actually whether where they have tried this. if you look at spain in canada where it has been tried, yes and meant division of labour but in other countries like sweden it did not actually work, the mother was doing most of the work still. so why do men need a month? �* , , , the work still. so why do men need a month?�* , , , i. ., the work still. so why do men need a month?�* , , , ., ., the work still. so why do men need a month?�* , ,, ., ., month? i'm surprised you have to ask the question — month? i'm surprised you have to ask the question these _ month? i'm surprised you have to ask the question these days. _ month? i'm surprised you have to ask the question these days. there - month? i'm surprised you have to ask the question these days. there was . month? i'm surprised you have to ask the question these days. there was a | the question these days. there was a time long ago when i was young when women did this and mended that. we don't live in that time any more. this is about starting up, about a former bonding with his child, about a family working together for the first time. i can see no downside. of course it is not compulsory. figs first time. i can see no downside. of course it is not compulsory. $5 i of course it is not compulsory. as i sa , i'm of course it is not compulsory. as i say. i'm playing _ of course it is not compulsory. as i say, i'm playing devils advocate. here is penny mordauntjust arriving. a good hour to have early to meet the director of news, jonathan monroe there and our chief at milbank there. we will continue to watch all of the leaders arrive. not going to be an easy night, i would not think, giving what is happening in conservative circles today. maybe we will speak to lord fox and a second on that. but penny mordaunt, daughter of a paratrooper, reservist in the navy and honorary commander in the navy and wurtsmith constituency. so how did she handle it. she does of course need to win her constituency so you would not think she can lay into the prime minister too much but certainly that is going to be one of the elements to watch this evening. just on that point, lord fox, it is a fulsome apology, it is almost a groveling apology and some may say it needs to be. it apology and some may say it needs to be. , ., , , ., ., be. it is no less than what is needed- _ be. it is no less than what is needed. all _ be. it is no less than what is needed. all through - be. it is no less than what is needed. all through the - be. it is no less than what is needed. all through the last be. it is no less than what is - needed. all through the last weeks we have heard the prime minister going on about national service. these were the original national servants going out there and putting their lives on the line. for him not to understand and to join that particular thing together... should we not accept _ particular thing together... should we not accept an _ particular thing together... should we not accept an apology? - particular thing together... should we not accept an apology? we - particular thing together... should l we not accept an apology? we never hear apologies or a change of mind from politicians that here is a man who they probably talked about it this morning and saying it is a mea culpa. this morning and saying it is a mea cula. ., , ., , this morning and saying it is a mea culpa-— again. i culpa. you brought it up. again, -la in: culpa. you brought it up. again, playing devils — culpa. you brought it up. again, playing devils advocate, - culpa. you brought it up. again, playing devils advocate, should| culpa. you brought it up. again, l playing devils advocate, should be acknowledge and accept a man made a mistake and take it at that? i think we should file _ mistake and take it at that? i think we should file it _ mistake and take it at that? i think we should file it in _ mistake and take it at that? i think we should file it in the list - mistake and take it at that? i think we should file it in the list of- we should file it in the list of things where we have got someone who has not quite worked out what a prime minister is. i think to leave the foreign secretary and a line where you have got the president of the united states and to go home to record an interview is to not understand the role that he is supposed to be taking. i think that is the serious point. the real point is, what does he think a prim act as if he isn't doing things like that? —— prime minister. {line if he isn't doing things like that? -- prime minister.— if he isn't doing things like that? -- prime minister. one thing that occurred to _ -- prime minister. one thing that occurred to me _ -- prime minister. one thing that occurred to me this _ -- prime minister. one thing that occurred to me this morning - -- prime minister. one thing that| occurred to me this morning when -- prime minister. one thing that i occurred to me this morning when i was a paris correspondent for some time, when i went ten years ago to this, i have to say it was the highlight of my time in paris. it was awe—inspiring, such a treat and honour to meet the veterans and it is a full day amid all of the history. i'm puzzled as to why he would not want to play the role of statesmen in an election campaign and see every moment of it. i statesmen in an election campaign and see every moment of it.- and see every moment of it. i 2am uzzled and see every moment of it. i 2am puzzled that _ and see every moment of it. i 2am puzzled that l _ and see every moment of it. i 2am puzzled that i think _ and see every moment of it. i 2am puzzled that i think you _ and see every moment of it. i 2am puzzled that i think you will- and see every moment of it. i 2am puzzled that i think you will have l puzzled that i think you will have to ask him and his people that. i agree with you. i used to go to university very close and an organisation that met every year and it was one of the most humbling occasions to meet these veterans of the absolutely awful campaign in burma. so there is a dwindling band of people here. this is sometimes the less chances to see some of these people. the less chances to see some of these people-— the less chances to see some of these people. just a quick word on these people. just a quick word on the lib dems _ these people. just a quick word on the lib dems and _ these people. just a quick word on the lib dems and what _ these people. just a quick word on the lib dems and what they - these people. just a quick word on the lib dems and what they are i the lib dems and what they are hoping to achieve. have you set a target? to have a number in mind? i'm sure you will understand when i say i have taken a vow of silence to respond to that. but the answer you get is we have got really good opportunities right across the country. we are second—place in an awful lot of seats and we are fighting absolutely tooth and nail in the seats. it is not possible, evenif in the seats. it is not possible, even if you wanted to, to put a number on that. but we are going out to win as many seats as we can. most of the seats are against conservatives and we are going to be very much a bigger force conservatives and we are going to be very much a biggerforce back in parliament. but in those seats, it is us and the conservatives. we are fighting those and we are getting that message across. talking on lots of doorsteps, people have got the message, i have to say. ourjob now is to make sure that we can bring those boats home.— is to make sure that we can bring those boats home. lord fox, lovely to have you — those boats home. lord fox, lovely to have you here _ those boats home. lord fox, lovely to have you here at _ those boats home. lord fox, lovely to have you here at the _ those boats home. lord fox, lovely to have you here at the spin - those boats home. lord fox, lovely to have you here at the spin room. no doubt we will talk more. thank you for the moment. here is the aerial shot of new broadcasting house this evening. lovely night in london, lovely to have some sun today after all of the rain. it is pleasant this evening and we have had most of the leaders here so far. we have just been seeing penny mordaunt who has come and also angela rayner the deputy leader is here as well. doctor david bull, hello, very nice to meet you. who will come to our guests and a second, ijust want will come to our guests and a second, i just want to ask you about the decision to hand over the reins to nigel farage. why was the decision taken? i to nigel farage. why was the decision taken?— to nigel farage. why was the decision taken? i think he is the most extraordinary _ decision taken? i think he is the most extraordinary leader- decision taken? i think he is the most extraordinary leader or - decision taken? i think he is the | most extraordinary leader or was decision taken? i think he is the - most extraordinary leader or was the most extraordinary leader or was the most extraordinary leader or was the most extraordinary leader, richard, single—handedly. i was by his side. actually richard has done which i think everyone should do which is put country before party and actually nigel is an extraordinary character. you've seen the scenes in clapton. he was greeted as a hero. we have had people hanging off of bridges. as a result of that and the team that we have built and we are doing well and our police. but there is a long way to go. just doing well and our police. but there is a long way to go-_ is a long way to go. just on the issue of what _ is a long way to go. just on the issue of what you _ is a long way to go. just on the issue of what you can - is a long way to go. just on the issue of what you can achieve i is a long way to go. just on the | issue of what you can achieve in is a long way to go. just on the - issue of what you can achieve in the selection, andrew neil made a good point yesterday that when margaret thatcher had a landslide in 1983, the social democrats had around 25% of the vote. you are currently around 17%. nigel farage has said, we are going to win seats and run the conservatives close. how far info chair do you have to get to make a real inroad in the house of commons. it make a real inroad in the house of commons-— commons. it is difficult to tell. what we are — commons. it is difficult to tell. what we are confident - commons. it is difficult to tell. what we are confident with - commons. it is difficult to tell. what we are confident with is i what we are confident with is actually people overtake the tories by the weekend. so in fact, they are using this matter about, if you vote for reform uk you will let labour in. we will not come to that by saying if you want to vote for the tories you will let in labour. there's a reverse takeover going on that i think we could achieve. we don't know how well we will do, but what we no is the groundswell of opinion that is coming from people when i go out and about to meet them, is a breath of fresh air. it is people want. they are bored of the two parties with the same boring politics. no drive, not strength. are there to hear that tonight? knowing nigel keeble coming out with some fantastic bits. liqufitin knowing nigel keeble coming out with some fantastic bits.— some fantastic bits. with the live demo adviser _ some fantastic bits. with the live demo adviser here, _ some fantastic bits. with the live demo adviser here, thank- some fantastic bits. with the live demo adviser here, thank you i some fantastic bits. with the live | demo adviser here, thank you for coming along and also list lloyd speaking for the snp though not in an official capacity. there has been fulsome praise i should say for stephen flynn, saying he was a good performerfor the house stephen flynn, saying he was a good performer for the house of commons for pmqs, what you want from him tonight? getting his moment to shine tonight. he is held tories and labour to account in westminster. what he needs the tonight show voters _ what he needs the tonight show voters in — what he needs the tonight show voters in scotland that you need snp mps to— voters in scotland that you need snp mps to push labour further. obviously we're going to be the government, but what kind of labour party do— government, but what kind of labour party do you — government, but what kind of labour party do you want. they don't want moving _ party do you want. they don't want moving further and further to the right _ moving further and further to the right so — moving further and further to the right. so stephen did on issues like oz and _ right. so stephen did on issues like oz and things like the benefit cap, the snp _ oz and things like the benefit cap, the snp will be there to push labour into more _ the snp will be there to push labour into more progressive position to reflect— into more progressive position to reflect what people in scotland want -- on _ reflect what people in scotland want -- on issues — reflect what people in scotland want —— on issues like gaza. what reflect what people in scotland want -- on issues like gaza.— -- on issues like gaza. what people want our good _ -- on issues like gaza. what people want our good public _ -- on issues like gaza. what people want our good public services i -- on issues like gaza. what people want our good public services and l want our good public services and your leader todayjohn swinney said this is going to be an election about public services. our people not bound to point the 40,000 people who have been waiting a year for care, for an appointment at hospital, are they bound to point act of reading and writing skills in scotland which are below those in england. scotland which are below those in encland. ~ ., scotland which are below those in encland. ~ . ., , ., england. what we have is what the labour party _ england. what we have is what the labour party said _ england. what we have is what the labour party said last _ england. what we have is what the labour party said last week - england. what we have is what the labour party said last week which i england. what we have is what the | labour party said last week which is all roads— labour party said last week which is all roads lead to westminster and over a _ all roads lead to westminster and over a decade of austerity is holding _ over a decade of austerity is holding us back which is the labour party— holding us back which is the labour party of— holding us back which is the labour party of ceres on continuing. if you can't _ party of ceres on continuing. if you can't get _ party of ceres on continuing. if you can't get serious investment in public— can't get serious investment in public services we cannot turn it around — public services we cannot turn it around. that is why local authorities in scotland are not going — authorities in scotland are not going bust in england. that is why there _ going bust in england. that is why there are — going bust in england. that is why there are performing ends scotland. so the _ there are performing ends scotland. so the snp has been able to limit the damage of those ten years of austerity— the damage of those ten years of austerity fact not go on forever and that is— austerity fact not go on forever and that is why— austerity fact not go on forever and that is why it is time for someone in the _ that is why it is time for someone in the government to take over and put investment into public services at the _ put investment into public services at the snp — put investment into public services at the snp will hold labour to account— at the snp will hold labour to account that they are promising the same amount of austerity as the conservatives and that is not enough people _ conservatives and that is not enough people in— conservatives and that is not enough people in scotland.— people in scotland. there's been a bit of a u-turn _ people in scotland. there's been a bit of a u-turn in _ people in scotland. there's been a bit of a u-turn in the _ people in scotland. there's been a bit of a u-turn in the last - people in scotland. there's been a bit of a u-turn in the last 24-48. bit of a u—turn in the last 24—48 hours on north sea drilling licenses. obviously you had a much more strenuous transition policy before the new leader came in. where do you fit, the conservatives have said, ok, no holds more troubling in the north sea. labour is the other side. are you sitting in the middle? i don't see it in the way that you described — i don't see it in the way that you described it. snp has had a position around _ described it. snp has had a position around the — described it. snp has had a position around the development of new fields that have _ around the development of new fields that have already been discovered but they— that have already been discovered but they need to pass a climate and compatibility —— competitive t—test to prove _ compatibility —— competitive t—test to prove they are needed in fit within— to prove they are needed in fit within climate change targets. and that's— within climate change targets. and that's been our position for a long time _ that's been our position for a long time. lt— that's been our position for a long time. ., ~ , ., that's been our position for a long time. . ~' , . ., that's been our position for a long time. . ~ , ., ., ., that's been our position for a long time. w , ., ., ., ., time. it takes a long and of course it does not — time. it takes a long and of course it does not go _ time. it takes a long and of course it does not go into _ time. it takes a long and of course it does not go into the _ time. it takes a long and of course it does not go into the national i it does not go into the national pool it does not go into the national pool, but a much bigger pool. it does but it helps our energy security _ does but it helps our energy security. what we are saying is we need _ security. what we are saying is we need a _ security. what we are saying is we need a just— security. what we are saying is we need a just a transition is what we are trying — need a just a transition is what we are trying to avoid is a cliff edge which _ are trying to avoid is a cliff edge which is — are trying to avoid is a cliff edge which is what labour is pushed for which _ which is what labour is pushed for which is _ which is what labour is pushed for which is all— which is what labour is pushed for which is all industry coming to a halt _ which is all industry coming to a halt their— which is all industry coming to a halt. theirjobs in scotland people who need — halt. theirjobs in scotland people who need the renewable industry to be pushed _ who need the renewable industry to be pushed up which is what we are pushing _ be pushed up which is what we are pushing for— be pushed up which is what we are pushing for with licenses for offshore _ pushing for with licenses for offshore wind far and set of offshore _ offshore wind far and set of offshore drilling so they have jobs to switch — offshore drilling so they have jobs to switch to when it comes time to wind _ to switch to when it comes time to wind down — to switch to when it comes time to wind down oil and gas but that is about— wind down oil and gas but that is about making sure as oil and gas winds— about making sure as oil and gas winds down renewables build up and we don't _ winds down renewables build up and we don't meet this cliff edge of people — we don't meet this cliff edge of people suddenly finds themselves out of a job _ people suddenly finds themselves out of a job. are people suddenly finds themselves out of a 'ob. �* , ., people suddenly finds themselves out ofa'ob.�* , ,, of a 'ob. are you surprised given the of a job. are you surprised given the warnings _ of a job. are you surprised given the warnings from _ of a job. are you surprised given the warnings from the _ of a job. are you surprised given the warnings from the united i of a job. are you surprised given i the warnings from the united nations the warnings from the united nations the secretary—generaljust the warnings from the united nations the secretary—general just the the warnings from the united nations the secretary—generaljust the other day that we are not talk about climate change more? i day that we are not talk about climate change more?- day that we are not talk about climate change more? i wish i could sa i was climate change more? i wish i could say i was surprised _ climate change more? i wish i could say i was surprised that _ climate change more? i wish i could say i was surprised that i _ climate change more? i wish i could say i was surprised that i think- climate change more? i wish i could say i was surprised that i think we i say i was surprised that i think we have seen that in british politics notjust important i think that a lot of— notjust important i think that a lot of the — notjust important i think that a lot of the times _ notjust important i think that a lot of the times those climate i lot of the times those climate change — lot of the times those climate change issues _ lot of the times those climate change issues whilst - lot of the times those climate . change issues whilst important, lot of the times those climate i change issues whilst important, are seen as— change issues whilst important, are seen as long—term. _ change issues whilst important, are seen as long—term. and _ change issues whilst important, are seen as long—term. and there's i seen as long—term. and there's difficult — seen as long—term. and there's difficult to — seen as long—term. and there's difficult to talk— seen as long—term. and there's difficult to talk about _ seen as long—term. and there's difficult to talk about his - seen as long—term. and there's difficult to talk about his lot i seen as long—term. and there's difficult to talk about his lot ofi difficult to talk about his lot of climate — difficult to talk about his lot of climate change _ difficult to talk about his lot of climate change policies i difficult to talk about his lot of climate change policies cost i difficult to talk about his lot of i climate change policies cost money. people _ climate change policies cost money. people don't — climate change policies cost money. people don't want _ climate change policies cost money. people don't want to _ climate change policies cost money. people don't want to talk— climate change policies cost money. people don't want to talk about i people don't want to talk about that _ people don't want to talk about that so — people don't want to talk about that so it— people don't want to talk about that. so it tends _ people don't want to talk about that. so it tends to _ people don't want to talk about that. so it tends to get - people don't want to talk about that. so it tends to get a i people don't want to talk about that. so it tends to get a little i that. so it tends to get a little bit brushed _ that. so it tends to get a little bit brushed under— that. so it tends to get a little bit brushed under the - that. so it tends to get a little bit brushed under the carpet. i bit brushed under the carpet. the polls— bit brushed under the carpet. the polls will— bit brushed under the carpet. the polls will tell _ bit brushed under the carpet. the polls will tell you _ bit brushed under the carpet. the polls will tell you it _ bit brushed under the carpet. the polls will tell you it is _ bit brushed under the carpet. the polls will tell you it is not i bit brushed under the carpet. the polls will tell you it is not what i polls will tell you it is not what swings — polls will tell you it is not what swings at — polls will tell you it is not what swings at people _ polls will tell you it is not what swings at people who - polls will tell you it is not what swings at people who vote. i polls will tell you it is not what swings at people who vote. so| polls will tell you it is not what i swings at people who vote. so the lib dems — swings at people who vote. so the lib dems do — swings at people who vote. so the lib dems do talk _ swings at people who vote. so the lib dems do talk about _ swings at people who vote. so the lib dems do talk about it - swings at people who vote. so the lib dems do talk about it quite i swings at people who vote. so the lib dems do talk about it quite a i lib dems do talk about it quite a lot, and — lib dems do talk about it quite a lot, and the _ lib dems do talk about it quite a lot, and the labour— lib dems do talk about it quite a lot, and the labour party- lib dems do talk about it quite a lot, and the labour party don't i lib dems do talk about it quite a i lot, and the labour party don't so much _ lot, and the labour party don't so much they— lot, and the labour party don't so much. they have _ lot, and the labour party don't so much. they have green— lot, and the labour party don't so much. they have green energy. much. they have green energy policies — much. they have green energy policies they— much. they have green energy policies they are _ much. they have green energy policies they are proud i much. they have green energy policies they are proud of i much. they have green energyl policies they are proud of both, much. they have green energy- policies they are proud of both, so what _ policies they are proud of both, so what the _ policies they are proud of both, so what the people _ policies they are proud of both, so what the people care _ policies they are proud of both, so what the people care about i policies they are proud of both, so what the people care about say. policies they are proud of both, so what the people care about say iti policies they are proud of both, soi what the people care about say it is important _ what the people care about say it is important but — what the people care about say it is important but don't _ what the people care about say it is important but don't vote on i what the people care about say it is important but don't vote on it i what the people care about say it is important but don't vote on it mostj important but don't vote on it most of the _ important but don't vote on it most of the time — important but don't vote on it most ofthe time l— important but don't vote on it most of the time-— of the time. i think i'm being told that rishi sunak— of the time. i think i'm being told that rishi sunak is _ of the time. i think i'm being told that rishi sunak is speaking i of the time. i think i'm being told that rishi sunak is speaking out i of the time. i think i'm being told | that rishi sunak is speaking out in wiltshire somewhere. do we have volume on that? build on the progress that we've made, _ build on the progress that we've made. turn _ build on the progress that we've made, turn that _ build on the progress that we've made, turn that secure - build on the progress that we've i made, turn that secure foundation we now have _ made, turn that secure foundation we now have into — made, turn that secure foundation we now have into something _ made, turn that secure foundation we now have into something that i made, turn that secure foundation we now have into something that can - now have into something that can deliver_ now have into something that can deliver a — now have into something that can deliver a secure _ now have into something that can deliver a secure future _ now have into something that can deliver a secure future for- now have into something that can l deliver a secure future for everyone and their_ deliver a secure future for everyone and theirfamilies_ deliver a secure future for everyone and their families so _ deliver a secure future for everyone and their families so we _ deliver a secure future for everyone and their families so we can- and their families so we can continue _ and their families so we can continue to— and their families so we can continue to cut _ and their families so we can continue to cut their- and their families so we can continue to cut their taxes i continue to cut their taxes and invest— continue to cut their taxes and invest in— continue to cut their taxes and invest in the _ continue to cut their taxes and invest in the nhs_ continue to cut their taxes and invest in the nhs or— continue to cut their taxes and invest in the nhs or do - continue to cut their taxes and invest in the nhs or do we - continue to cut their taxes and invest in the nhs or do we put continue to cut their taxes and i invest in the nhs or do we put all of that— invest in the nhs or do we put all of that progress. _ invest in the nhs or do we put all of that progress, after— invest in the nhs or do we put all of that progress, after all- invest in the nhs or do we put all of that progress, after all of- invest in the nhs or do we put all of that progress, after all of that i of that progress, after all of that hard _ of that progress, after all of that hard work— of that progress, after all of that hard work and _ of that progress, after all of that hard work and sacrifice _ of that progress, after all of that hard work and sacrifice and - hard work and sacrifice and resilience _ hard work and sacrifice and resilience of— hard work and sacrifice and resilience of our— hard work and sacrifice and resilience of our country. hard work and sacrifice and resilience of our country at| hard work and sacrifice and - resilience of our country at risk and go — resilience of our country at risk and go back_ resilience of our country at risk and go back to _ resilience of our country at risk and go back to square - resilience of our country at risk and go back to square one - resilience of our country at riski and go back to square one with the labour— and go back to square one with the labour party? _ and go back to square one with the labour party? the _ and go back to square one with the labour party? the only _ and go back to square one with the labour party? the only certainty i labour party? the only certainty with labour _ labour party? the only certainty with labour that _ labour party? the only certainty with labour that we _ labour party? the only certainty with labour that we all— labour party? the only certainty with labour that we all know - labour party? the only certainty with labour that we all know is l labour party? the only certainty . with labour that we all know is that they are _ with labour that we all know is that they are going _ with labour that we all know is that they are going to _ with labour that we all know is that they are going to put _ with labour that we all know is that they are going to put up _ with labour that we all know is that| they are going to put up everyone's taxes _ they are going to put up everyone's taxes as— they are going to put up everyone's taxes as you — they are going to put up everyone's taxes. as you saw _ they are going to put up everyone's taxes. as you saw the _ they are going to put up everyone's taxes. as you saw the other- they are going to put up everyone's taxes. as you saw the other night, i taxes. as you saw the other night, is £2000 — taxes. as you saw the other night, is £2000 in — taxes. as you saw the other night, is £2000 in tax _ taxes. as you saw the other night, is £2000 in tax rises _ taxes. as you saw the other night, is £2000 in tax rises for— taxes. as you saw the other night, is £2000 in tax rises for every - is £2000 in tax rises for every working — is £2000 in tax rises for every working famitv _ is £2000 in tax rises for every working family in _ is £2000 in tax rises for every working family in our- is £2000 in tax rises for every working family in our country. | is £2000 in tax rises for every - working family in our country. that is what _ working family in our country. that is what att— working family in our country. that is what all of — working family in our country. that is what all of their— working family in our country. that is what all of their un—costed - is what all of their un—costed policies — is what all of their un—costed policies at _ is what all of their un—costed policies at up _ is what all of their un—costed policies at up to. _ is what all of their un—costed policies at up to. i _ is what all of their un—costed policies at up to. i do - is what all of their un—costed policies at up to. i do not - policies at up to. i do not think that— policies at up to. i do not think that is— policies at up to. i do not think that is the _ policies at up to. i do not think that is the right _ policies at up to. i do not think that is the right policy, - policies at up to. i do not think that is the right policy, you - that is the right policy, you don't think— that is the right policy, you don't think it _ that is the right policy, you don't think it is — that is the right policy, you don't think it is because _ that is the right policy, you don't think it is because we _ that is the right policy, you don't think it is because we want- that is the right policy, you don't think it is because we want to i think it is because we want to deliver— think it is because we want to deliver financial _ think it is because we want to deliver financial security - think it is because we want to deliver financial security for l think it is because we want to i deliver financial security for our countrv — deliver financial security for our countrv that _ deliver financial security for our country. that is _ deliver financial security for our country. that is the _ deliver financial security for our country. that is the choice - deliver financial security for our country. that is the choice at. deliver financial security for our. country. that is the choice at the selection — country. that is the choice at the selection. with _ country. that is the choice at the selection. with your— country. that is the choice at the selection. with your support, - country. that is the choice at the i selection. with your support, with your help — selection. with your support, with your help we _ selection. with your support, with your help we will _ selection. with your support, with your help we will go out _ selection. with your support, with your help we will go out and - selection. with your support, with| your help we will go out and about notjust— your help we will go out and about not just across _ your help we will go out and about not just across the _ your help we will go out and about not just across the south - your help we will go out and about not just across the south west - not just across the south west but across _ not just across the south west but across the — not just across the south west but across the country— not just across the south west but across the country and _ not just across the south west but across the country and take - not just across the south west but across the country and take a - across the country and take a message _ across the country and take a message to _ across the country and take a message to the _ across the country and take a message to the country - across the country and take a message to the country that| across the country and take a - message to the country that with the conservatives — message to the country that with the conservatives we _ message to the country that with the conservatives we will— message to the country that with the conservatives we will cut _ message to the country that with the conservatives we will cut taxes, - conservatives we will cut taxes, deliver — conservatives we will cut taxes, deliver a — conservatives we will cut taxes, deliver a more _ conservatives we will cut taxes, deliver a more secure _ conservatives we will cut taxes, deliver a more secure future - conservatives we will cut taxes, deliver a more secure future for conservatives we will cut taxes, - deliver a more secure future for you and your— deliver a more secure future for you and your family— deliver a more secure future for you and your family and _ deliver a more secure future for you and your family and that _ deliver a more secure future for you and your family and that is- deliver a more secure future for you and your family and that is what - deliver a more secure future for you and your family and that is what thej and your family and that is what the plan is _ and your family and that is what the plan is thank— and your family and that is what the plan is. thank you _ and your family and that is what the plan is. thank you very— and your family and that is what the plan is. thank you very much. - plan is. thank you very much. bye-bye _ plan is. thank you very much. bye-bye. thank— plan is. thank you very much. bye—bye. thank you. - plan is. thank you very much. bye—bye. thank you. rishi- plan is. thank you very much. i bye—bye. thank you. rishi sunak plan is. thank you very much. - bye—bye. thank you. rishi sunak in wiltshire. getting some polite applause there from his supporters but i'm told i'm trying to get the video that when he arrived there he was heckled by some people who were standing by. so a number of people there who are close supporters, but not everybody prepared to forgive the prime minister. interestingly, the prime minister. interestingly, the prime minister returning to that idea of the £2000 cost of a labour government, even though it has been disputed throughout the week. i disputed throughout the week. i think the conservative party regarded _ think the conservative party regarded as _ think the conservative party regarded as if— think the conservative party regarded as if they- think the conservative party regarded as if they don't - think the conservative party. regarded as if they don't care think the conservative party i regarded as if they don't care if there _ regarded as if they don't care if there has— regarded as if they don't care if there has been— regarded as if they don't care if there has been a _ regarded as if they don't care if there has been a row— regarded as if they don't care if there has been a row about - regarded as if they don't care if there has been a row about it. i regarded as if they don't care if. there has been a row about it. the figure _ there has been a row about it. the figure of— there has been a row about it. the figure of £2000 _ there has been a row about it. the figure of £2000 of— there has been a row about it. the figure of £2000 of tax _ there has been a row about it. the figure of £2000 of tax cuts - there has been a row about it. thei figure of £2000 of tax cuts building and headlines— figure of £2000 of tax cuts building and headlines as _ figure of £2000 of tax cuts building and headlines as a _ figure of £2000 of tax cuts building and headlines as a story, _ figure of £2000 of tax cuts building and headlines as a story, the - and headlines as a story, the conservative party— and headlines as a story, the conservative party think - and headlines as a story, the conservative party think of l and headlines as a story, the conservative party think of is and headlines as a story, the i conservative party think of is a good _ conservative party think of is a good thing _ conservative party think of is a good thing so— conservative party think of is a good thing. so they _ conservative party think of is a good thing. so they will - conservative party think of is a good thing. so they will keep i conservative party think of is a i good thing. so they will keep on hantnrering _ good thing. so they will keep on hammering. they— good thing. so they will keep on hammering. they seat - good thing. so they will keep on hammering. they seat a - good thing. so they will keep on hammering. they seat a bit - good thing. so they will keep on hammering. they seat a bit like| good thing. so they will keep on . hammering. they seat a bit like the bus with _ hammering. they seat a bit like the bus with brexit, _ hammering. they seat a bit like the bus with brexit, people _ hammering. they seat a bit like the bus with brexit, people are - bus with brexit, people are discussing _ bus with brexit, people are discussing the _ bus with brexit, people are discussing the number- bus with brexit, people are discussing the number and| bus with brexit, people are . discussing the number and the bus with brexit, people are _ discussing the number and the claim, they think— discussing the number and the claim, they think it _ discussing the number and the claim, they think it is— discussing the number and the claim, they think it is a win. _ discussing the number and the claim, they think it is a win. so— discussing the number and the claim, they think it is a win. so i— discussing the number and the claim, they think it is a win. so i don't- they think it is a win. so i don't think— they think it is a win. so i don't think they— they think it is a win. so i don't think they will— they think it is a win. so i don't think they will back— they think it is a win. so i don't think they will back off - they think it is a win. so i don'tj think they will back off because they think it is a win. so i don't. think they will back off because as far as _ think they will back off because as far as they— think they will back off because as far as they concerned _ think they will back off because as far as they concerned as _ think they will back off because as far as they concerned as more - think they will back off because as i far as they concerned as more people talk about— far as they concerned as more people talk about it. — far as they concerned as more people talk about it, the _ far as they concerned as more people talk about it, the more _ far as they concerned as more people talk about it, the more it— far as they concerned as more people talk about it, the more it is— far as they concerned as more people talk about it, the more it is driven - talk about it, the more it is driven home _ talk about it, the more it is driven home. . , ., ., , home. that figure, it is not only the numbers — home. that figure, it is not only the numbers behind _ home. that figure, it is not only the numbers behind that - home. that figure, it is not only the numbers behind that 2000, j the numbers behind that 2000, numbers and supplied by the conservative party to civil service, it is the fact that there there are not independent civil servants because they are responding to the government of the day.— government of the day. looking at labour and the spectator _ government of the day. looking at labour and the spectator looked atj labour and the spectator looked at the data and actually said under the conservative party it would go up by £3000. so actually they are on the same sides of the same grubby coin. high tax, high regulation and the low growth. what we need to do is have low tax, less regulation, we want high growth. i think we need a new thinking for this country. at the moment we are going in one direction and it is the wrong direction. direction and it is the wrong direction-— direction and it is the wrong direction. . , , ., direction. the policies you set out which is interesting _ direction. the policies you set out which is interesting since - direction. the policies you set out which is interesting since we - direction. the policies you set out which is interesting since we are l which is interesting since we are talking about growth is that you want to make it an election about migration. so you are going to tax companies up to 20% corporate rate tax if they employ foreign workers. that goes from 13.8% up to 20% and that saves £20 billion for national insurance coming in. at the end of the day they have 9 million economically inactive people in this country. 5.5 million people on out of work benefits. 0h should be doing is training british people to do those jobs. is training british people to do thosejobs. actually is training british people to do those jobs. actually many of these companies are lazy, relying on immigration because it is cheaper and easier to fill. then it is to train people here.— and easier to fill. then it is to train people here. plenty of people rarely recognised _ train people here. plenty of people rarely recognised that _ train people here. plenty of people rarely recognised that in _ train people here. plenty of people rarely recognised that in the - rarely recognised that in the country but we also have a skills 93p- country but we also have a skills gap. all of the parties with the exception of reform uk, you tell me, will say, you have to have some migration. {lit will say, you have to have some migration-— will say, you have to have some miaration. .., , ., ., migration. of course and we have said health _ migration. of course and we have said health and _ migration. of course and we have said health and social— migration. of course and we have said health and social care, - migration. of course and we have said health and social care, that l migration. of course and we have| said health and social care, that is my background as a doctor, would be the exception because obviously there needs to be a transition to this. but it is about companies being lazy. we need people in this country to feel empowered to get back at work i think we have to train them properly.— back at work i think we have to train them properly. on the issue of the tax and — train them properly. on the issue of the tax and spend, _ train them properly. on the issue of the tax and spend, we _ train them properly. on the issue of the tax and spend, we probably - train them properly. on the issue of. the tax and spend, we probably going to hear a bit more about that again tonight. i will are the voters getting the true story about how these policies are going to be costed and paid for? id these policies are going to be costed and paid for?— these policies are going to be costed and paid for? i'd do not think so and _ costed and paid for? i'd do not think so and i _ costed and paid for? i'd do not think so and i do _ costed and paid for? i'd do not think so and i do not _ costed and paid for? i'd do not think so and i do not think - costed and paid for? i'd do not think so and i do not think it i costed and paid for? i'd do not think so and i do not think it isj costed and paid for? i'd do not i think so and i do not think it is an election— think so and i do not think it is an election pacific— think so and i do not think it is an election pacific problem. - think so and i do not think it is an election pacific problem. looking| think so and i do not think it is an . election pacific problem. looking up budgets _ election pacific problem. looking up budgets in _ election pacific problem. looking up budgets in the — election pacific problem. looking up budgets in the autumn _ election pacific problem. looking up budgets in the autumn statement . election pacific problem. looking up. budgets in the autumn statement were set in the _ budgets in the autumn statement were set in the way— budgets in the autumn statement were set in the way those _ budgets in the autumn statement were set in the way those in _ budgets in the autumn statement were set in the way those in the _ budgets in the autumn statement were set in the way those in the office - set in the way those in the office of budget— set in the way those in the office of budget responsible _ set in the way those in the office of budget responsible to - set in the way those in the office of budget responsible to be - set in the way those in the office of budget responsible to be set. set in the way those in the office - of budget responsible to be set out, they are _ of budget responsible to be set out, they are almost _ of budget responsible to be set out, they are almost fictional— of budget responsible to be set out, they are almost fictional numbers i they are almost fictional numbers making _ they are almost fictional numbers making assumptions— they are almost fictional numbers making assumptions about - they are almost fictional numbers - making assumptions about long—term savings. _ making assumptions about long—term savings. about— making assumptions about long—term savings, about will— making assumptions about long—term savings, about will and _ making assumptions about long—term savings, about will and will— making assumptions about long—term savings, about will and will not - making assumptions about long—term savings, about will and will not be - savings, about will and will not be brought _ savings, about will and will not be brought in— savings, about will and will not be brought in by— savings, about will and will not be brought in by tax _ savings, about will and will not be brought in by tax changes. - savings, about will and will not be brought in by tax changes. the . brought in by tax changes. the truth, — brought in by tax changes. the truth, i— brought in by tax changes. the truth, idont— brought in by tax changes. the truth, i don't think— brought in by tax changes. the truth, i don't think people - brought in by tax changes. the truth, i don't think people will| brought in by tax changes. the i truth, i don't think people will get at. ~ ., , , truth, i don't think people will get at. , , ., ., at. maybe we should do it differently _ at. maybe we should do it differently and _ at. maybe we should do it differently and maybe - at. maybe we should do it differently and maybe we | at. maybe we should do it - differently and maybe we should at. maybe we should do it _ differently and maybe we should have an independent body. who could do this and information service with the public that does not rely on politics. taste the public that does not rely on olitics. ~ ,., ., the public that does not rely on olitics. ~ ., ., .., politics. we sort of have those come the institute — politics. we sort of have those come the institute for _ politics. we sort of have those come the institute for fiscal _ politics. we sort of have those come the institute for fiscal studies - politics. we sort of have those come the institute for fiscal studies and l the institute for fiscal studies and institute _ the institute for fiscal studies and institute for the government say that there is a £19 billion funding -ap that there is a £19 billion funding gap in _ that there is a £19 billion funding gap in labourand that there is a £19 billion funding gap in labour and tory plans moving forward _ gap in labour and tory plans moving forward where the snp is coming in pretty— forward where the snp is coming in pretty much the only party saying we have answers on that. not is that what _ have answers on that. not is that what we — have answers on that. not is that what we are relying on, more public sector— what we are relying on, more public sector cuts? — what we are relying on, more public sector cuts? it is the unreality of the debate — sector cuts? it is the unreality of the debate taking place. so far the selection _ the debate taking place. so far the selection has been about made—up numbers, — selection has been about made—up numbers, fictional campaigning points, — numbers, fictional campaigning points, stuff that actually is not really _ points, stuff that actually is not really speaking to voter's lives. the care — really speaking to voter's lives. the care of— really speaking to voter's lives. the care of a cost—of—living money in their— the care of a cost—of—living money in their pocket and jobs and the economy— in their pocket and jobs and the economy and the nhs and they need to know how— economy and the nhs and they need to know how it is going to be funded, how it _ know how it is going to be funded, how it will— know how it is going to be funded, how it will be protected and an order— how it will be protected and an order labour and tories setting out a path _ order labour and tories setting out a path to— order labour and tories setting out a path to cutting it and it feels like they— a path to cutting it and it feels like they are.— a path to cutting it and it feels like the are. ., . like they are. one thought occurred to me and l — like they are. one thought occurred to me and i should _ like they are. one thought occurred to me and i should make _ like they are. one thought occurred to me and i should make a - like they are. one thought occurred to me and i should make a point to| to me and i should make a point to argue is that tonight, the deadline passed for deciding candidates for 650 in situ and seas. 66 passed for deciding candidates for 650 in situ and seas.— 650 in situ and seas. 66 at the latest count. _ 650 in situ and seas. 66 at the latest count. we _ 650 in situ and seas. 66 at the latest count. we are _ 650 in situ and seas. 66 at the latest count. we are just - 650 in situ and seas. 66 at the - latest count. we are just confirming those numbers. so we are thrilled with that. 620 we went out and had an agreement with the sdp for six of those so in total 626. lib an agreement with the sdp for six of those so in total 626.— an agreement with the sdp for six of| those so in total 626._ and those so in total 626. lib dems? and everest place- _ those so in total 626. lib dems? and everest place. we _ those so in total 626. lib dems? and everest place. we had _ those so in total 626. lib dems? and everest place. we had lives - those so in total 626. lib dems? and everest place. we had lives here, - everest place. we had lives here, used to have _ everest place. we had lives here, used to have a _ everest place. we had lives here, used to have a number _ everest place. we had lives here, used to have a number of - everest place. we had lives here, used to have a number of seats i everest place. we had lives here, | used to have a number of seats in scotland can you make a great again. they're hoping to make inroads in the other— they're hoping to make inroads in the other thing _ they're hoping to make inroads in the other thing is— they're hoping to make inroads in the other thing is who _ they're hoping to make inroads in the other thing is who will - they're hoping to make inroads in the other thing is who will finish l the other thing is who will finish up the other thing is who will finish up is _ the other thing is who will finish up is the — the other thing is who will finish up is the third _ the other thing is who will finish up is the third largest _ the other thing is who will finish up is the third largest party- the other thing is who will finish up is the third largest party in l up is the third largest party in westminster— up is the third largest party in westminster because - up is the third largest party in westminster because there i up is the third largest party in. westminster because there are advantages _ westminster because there are advantages to _ westminster because there are advantages to that _ westminster because there are advantages to that position - westminster because there are advantages to that position in i westminster because there are - advantages to that position in terms of question— advantages to that position in terms of question of— advantages to that position in terms of question of someone _ advantages to that position in terms of question of someone speaking. of question of someone speaking brilliantly— of question of someone speaking brilliantlv at _ of question of someone speaking brilliantly at the _ of question of someone speaking brilliantly at the moment - of question of someone speaking brilliantly at the moment but - of question of someone speaking i brilliantly at the moment but there is a hidden — brilliantly at the moment but there is a hidden race _ brilliantly at the moment but there is a hidden race between— brilliantly at the moment but there is a hidden race between the - is a hidden race between the parties _ is a hidden race between the parties to _ is a hidden race between the arties. ., ,, ., , , parties. to the snp neatness debate toniaht? it parties. to the snp neatness debate tonight? it is— parties. to the snp neatness debate tonight? it is helpful— parties. to the snp neatness debate tonight? it is helpful because - parties. to the snp neatness debate tonight? it is helpful because it - tonight? it is helpful because it shows that _ tonight? it is helpful because it shows that there _ tonight? it is helpful because it shows that there are _ tonight? it is helpful because it shows that there are more - tonight? it is helpful because it i shows that there are more parties thaniust— shows that there are more parties thanjust the two big labour and torv— thanjust the two big labour and tory parties. they had to did not -ive tory parties. they had to did not give a _ tory parties. they had to did not give a real— tory parties. they had to did not give a real picture to voters in scotland — give a real picture to voters in scotland of their choices. the snp is the _ scotland of their choices. the snp is the third—largest party and the largest— is the third—largest party and the largest party in scotland and should have been— largest party in scotland and should have been in that debate so tonight steven— have been in that debate so tonight steven has the chance to set all of the points— steven has the chance to set all of the points i— steven has the chance to set all of the points i would have been made, had we _ the points i would have been made, had we been there last week and will be made _ had we been there last week and will be made over the next couple of weeks — be made over the next couple of weeks. ., , ., , i. be made over the next couple of weeks. ., , ., , ., ., ,, weeks. lovely to see you all. thank ou for weeks. lovely to see you all. thank you for coming- _ weeks. lovely to see you all. thank you for coming. i _ weeks. lovely to see you all. thank you for coming. i did _ weeks. lovely to see you all. thank you for coming. i did promise - weeks. lovely to see you all. thank you for coming. i did promise you i you for coming. i did promise you that we would try and play you a little bit of the reception that rishi sunak got when he appeared before that carjust rishi sunak got when he appeared before that car just a few rishi sunak got when he appeared before that carjust a few minutes ago. here it is. knows that we are on the right track. but the nhs is disintegrating. i track. but the nhs is disintegrating.- track. but the nhs is disintegrating. track. but the nhs is disinteauratin. ., ., ., ., ., disintegrating. i am one of two and half thousand _ disintegrating. i am one of two and half thousand gps _ disintegrating. i am one of two and half thousand gps in _ disintegrating. i am one of two and half thousand gps in this _ disintegrating. i am one of two and half thousand gps in this country i half thousand gps in this country who are — half thousand gps in this country who are currently _ half thousand gps in this country who are currently unemployed . half thousand gps in this country who are currently unemployed if| half thousand gps in this country- who are currently unemployed if your policies _ who are currently unemployed if your policies what— who are currently unemployed if your policies. what are _ who are currently unemployed if your policies. what are you _ who are currently unemployed if your policies. what are you going - who are currently unemployed if your policies. what are you going to - who are currently unemployed if your policies. what are you going to do i policies. what are you going to do about— policies. what are you going to do about it? — policies. what are you going to do about it? 37,000— policies. what are you going to do about it? 37,000 gps— policies. what are you going to do about it? 37,000 gps will- policies. what are you going to do about it? 37,000 gps will not- policies. what are you going to doi about it? 37,000 gps will not vote conservative because _ about it? 37,000 gps will not vote conservative because of— about it? 37,000 gps will not vote conservative because of the - conservative because of the constructive _ conservative because of the constructive dismissal- conservative because of the constructive dismissal and i conservative because of the - constructive dismissal and general practice _ constructive dismissal and general practice that — constructive dismissal and general practice that is _ constructive dismissal and general practice that is currently _ practice that is currently occurring? _ practice that is currently occurring? you - practice that is currently occurring? you cannot i practice that is currently i occurring? you cannot employ practice that is currently _ occurring? you cannot employ lesser gualified _ occurring? you cannot employ lesser qualified people _ occurring? you cannot employ lesser qualified people instead _ occurring? you cannot employ lesser qualified people instead of— occurring? you cannot employ lesser qualified people instead of gps. i qualified people instead of gps. they— qualified people instead of gps. they cannot _ qualified people instead of gps. they cannot be _ qualified people instead of gps. they cannot be replaced. - qualified people instead of gps. they cannot be replaced. the i qualified people instead of gps. i they cannot be replaced. the country is not _ they cannot be replaced. the country is not stupid — they cannot be replaced. the country is not stupid. they— they cannot be replaced. the country is not stupid. they know _ they cannot be replaced. the country is not stupid. they know when - they cannot be replaced. the country is not stupid. they know when lesser| is not stupid. they know when lesser gualified _ is not stupid. they know when lesser qualified people _ is not stupid. they know when lesser qualified people are _ is not stupid. they know when lesser qualified people are being _ is not stupid. they know when lesser qualified people are being used i is not stupid. they know when lesser qualified people are being used to. qualified people are being used to conduct _ qualified people are being used to conduct consultations. _ qualified people are being used to conduct consultations. which i qualified people are being used to conduct consultations. which are i conduct consultations. which are massively— conduct consultations. which are massively complex. _ conduct consultations. which are massively complex. most - conduct consultations. which are massively complex. most people conduct consultations. which are i massively complex. most people bc over the _ massively complex. most people bc over the of— massively complex. most people bc over the of 40 — massively complex. most people bc over the of 40 have _ massively complex. most people bc over the of 40 have at _ massively complex. most people bc over the of 40 have at least - over the of 40 have at least six different — over the of 40 have at least six different diseases _ over the of 40 have at least six different diseases going - over the of 40 have at least six different diseases going on- over the of 40 have at least six different diseases going on at i over the of 40 have at least six i different diseases going on at once. they cannot — different diseases going on at once. they cannot be _ different diseases going on at once. they cannot be coped _ different diseases going on at once. they cannot be coped with - different diseases going on at once. they cannot be coped with with i different diseases going on at once. | they cannot be coped with with high gualified _ they cannot be coped with with high qualified staff! _ they cannot be coped with with high qualified staff! a _ they cannot be coped with with high qualified staff! a really, _ they cannot be coped with with high qualified staff! a really, is _ they cannot be coped with with high qualified staff! a really, is that- qualified staff! a really, is that so? you — qualified staff! a really, is that so? you go _ qualified staff! a really, is that so? you go to— qualified staff! a really, is that so? you go to your— qualified staff! a really, is that so? you go to your surgery- qualified staff! a really, is that| so? you go to your surgery and qualified staff! a really, is that- so? you go to your surgery and you will find — so? you go to your surgery and you will find out _ so? you go to your surgery and you will find out how— so? you go to your surgery and you will find out how much. _ so? you go to your surgery and you will find out how much. publicly- will find out how much. publicly declared — will find out how much. publicly declared on _ will find out how much. publicly declared on every _ will find out how much. publicly declared on every website. i will find out how much. publicly declared on every website. my. will find out how much. publicly declared on every website. my dad was a gp but _ declared on every website. my dad was a gp but my — declared on every website. my dad was a gp but my mum was - declared on every website. my dad was a gp but my mum was also i declared on every website. my dad was a gp but my mum was also a i was a gp but my mum was also a pharmacist so that is a household i grew up in. my parents dedicate themselves to primary care and i know a thing or two about it and have worked very hard at my mums from her seat. while we're supporting gps and right now supporting gps and right now supporting them with investment in digital telepathy so we can make it easier to get access to them, we are making it easierfor easier to get access to them, we are making it easier for people to see other primary care practitioners to give a treatment that they need. that's where i will respectfully disagree because i do think it is right that people can now see their pharmacist to get medicines for seven common ailments like sore throats, your infections and ideas. that is an example of something making it easierfor that is an example of something making it easier for people to get the care that they need. i will always support primary care is as a son of a pharmacist and gp but we cannot have a strong nhs without a strong economy. rishi cannot have a strong nhs without a strong economy-— cannot have a strong nhs without a strong economy. rishi sunak speaking to a crowd out — strong economy. rishi sunak speaking to a crowd out on _ strong economy. rishi sunak speaking to a crowd out on the _ strong economy. rishi sunak speaking to a crowd out on the campaign - strong economy. rishi sunak speaking to a crowd out on the campaign just i to a crowd out on the campaign just a short time ago. you can see or hear that the row was over gps and staffing gp surgeries but he was speaking down there about the dda commemorations. he said that the conservatives have made the country the best in the world to be a veteran, something we have heard from the veterans minster today. he insisted that he had spoken to many veterans over the past couple of days, had expressed his gratitude to them. he set the government had introduced a dedicated ministerfor veterans, and office for veteran affairs and employment health and housing support. the government he said has also introduced a veterans id card. pressed on why he decided to leave the commemorations yesterday and not go to that ceremony on omaha beach, he said, a range of things go into putting these things together, but he acknowledged, once again that a mistake had been made. you are looking at aerial pictures. just around central london. that is the old telecom tower there will we saw listening to rishi sunak the leader of plaid cymru has arrived here. rhun ap iorwerth will be on stage this evening no doubt talking about all matters in wales including the no—confidence vote that we had this week in the welsh first minister. but we will take a little pause for a second from all of our representatives who are here in the new broadcasting house centre and we will go to your voice, your vote. a chance to hearfrom will go to your voice, your vote. a chance to hear from you the audience about the aspects of the election that you want unpacked. kevin peachy is with us. a lot of the questions i have in front of me, it is always the way your ipad shuts down when you are about to go to some and you have a whole list of questions, but open again now. all of the questions i have here are questions that will not be asked onstage because they don't necessarily relate to policy. let me give this one. it is reallyjust a question about what we do, what is this and what is it all about? this ro'ect is this and what is it all about? this project is very — this and what is it all about? this project is very much _ this and what is it all about? try 3 project is very much an open invitation to the viewers to the voters who after all are the most important people in the selection. to get in touch with us, help us at the bbc shape our coverage also to explain some things that they may be a bit unsure about. so we can also help shape some of the questions we have put to the leaders and the representatives of the different parties. so it is very much giving people the opportunity to use their voice because as i say, the most important people in the selection, they are. important people in the selection, the are. , ,., important people in the selection, the are. , ., , they are. one person asked, is there a lace they are. one person asked, is there a place which — they are. one person asked, is there a place which shows _ they are. one person asked, is there a place which shows each _ they are. one person asked, is there a place which shows each party's i a place which shows each party's stance and what they hope to achieve. ~ ., ., ., , ., achieve. we are going to be hearing from representatives _ achieve. we are going to be hearing from representatives of _ achieve. we are going to be hearing from representatives of the - achieve. we are going to be hearing from representatives of the seven i from representatives of the seven biggest or largest parties and the next hours' time. but also it is only going to cover a certain element of this election. so we are going to have to wait for the manifestos which it should be coming out next week or certainly starting to come out next week and luis will be able to look through some of those to see where the parties a stand, crucially as well, how they are going to go through the costings of those policies. of course we will be scrutinising those as well and having a look at those as well. allowing us to see what the parties a stand on different issues and in the news today, we have been hearing that the labour party have been having final negotiations on their manifesto. so that is not done and dusted and ready to go. late manifesto. so that is not done and dusted and ready to go.— manifesto. so that is not done and dusted and ready to go. we have to debate coming _ dusted and ready to go. we have to debate coming up, _ dusted and ready to go. we have to debate coming up, of— dusted and ready to go. we have to debate coming up, of course, - dusted and ready to go. we have to | debate coming up, of course, kevin, what are the issues that people are writing and about, what do they want to know? late writing and about, what do they want to know? ~ . ., ., , ., to know? we have had thousands of --eole aet to know? we have had thousands of people get in _ to know? we have had thousands of people get in touch. _ to know? we have had thousands of people get in touch. it _ to know? we have had thousands of people get in touch. it is _ to know? we have had thousands of people get in touch. it is obviously i people get in touch. it is obviously a whole range of issues that people are really focused on. that are probably going to shift their vote. this is not a poll or a focus group. it is not a scientific study but we do get some impressions of some of the things that people are keen to hear about. the nhs, the things that people are keen to hearabout. the nhs, immigration, climate change, certainly. issues like that which have come up, but some slightly different ones as well. for example, we had someone get in touch saying accessibility for people with disabilities was a big issue where they are. so there is a whole range of issues that have come up. clearly there's going to be a selection of those, we will hear a selection of those issues come up tonight, but of course, what we want tonight, but of course, what we want to hear from you about how the issues are going to affect you over and shape our coverage of the next five weeks or so. get and shape our coverage of the next five weeks or so.— five weeks or so. get in touch if ou five weeks or so. get in touch if you have _ five weeks or so. get in touch if you have a _ five weeks or so. get in touch if you have a question _ five weeks or so. get in touch if you have a question about - five weeks or so. get in touch if you have a question about what seen tonight or policies don't fully understand, there is the address to write into. joining me now is lisa nandy, shadow ministerfor international development. i mustn't get ahead of myself. that'll do. i mustn't get ahead of myself. that'll do— i mustn't get ahead of myself. that'll do._ thanks i i mustn't get ahead of myself. i that'll do._ thanks very that'll do. welcome. thanks very much. that'll do. welcome. thanks very much- busy _ that'll do. welcome. thanks very much. busy day? _ that'll do. welcome. thanks very much. busy day? very _ that'll do. welcome. thanks very much. busy day? very busy, i that'll do. welcome. thanks very l much. busy day? very busy, we've been having _ much. busy day? very busy, we've been having a _ much. busy day? very busy, we've been having a big _ much. busy day? very busy, we've been having a big meeting - much. busy day? very busy, we've been having a big meeting to - much. busy day? very busy, we've| been having a big meeting to agree or manifesto for government details to be revealed shortly, and it's been a really positive day for us, we are really confident about the offer we are putting forward. did everybody agree? as _ offer we are putting forward. did everybody agree? as you - offer we are putting forward. did everybody agree? as you would | everybody agree? as you would exect, everybody agree? as you would expect. we _ everybody agree? as you would expect. we had _ everybody agree? as you would expect, we had a _ everybody agree? as you would expect, we had a debate - everybody agree? as you would expect, we had a debate in i everybody agree? as you would expect, we had a debate in the| everybody agree? as you would i expect, we had a debate in the room but it was really positive, and incredibly positive meeting. five years ago i don't think anybody would've expected that from the labour party. what you saw in the room today was a group of people absolutely determined that this country should start working for working people again.— working people again. you'll be aware some — working people again. you'll be aware some of— working people again. you'll be aware some of the _ working people again. you'll be aware some of the things - working people again. you'll be aware some of the things that i working people again. you'll be i aware some of the things that unite and momentum moore have said. there were some things on working directives — are you being bold? i directives — are you being bold? i won't get into what is or isn't going to be in a manifesto that we published, but what i would say is this. i think people generally in that room felt very strongly that there was a real plan to take this country forward, notjust there was a real plan to take this country forward, not just some people in this country but all people in this country but all people in this country but all people in it. i can be really confident about that, that it rises to meet the big challenges of our times. but as rachel reeves has said many times, when we make challenges, they will be fully costed and fully funded, and you can bet if we put these in the manifesto, they will absolutely be delivered. we know trust is at an all—time low full of tory broken promises, but the promises that we are making will change the country. late promises that we are making will change the country.— promises that we are making will change the country. we won't talk about the figure _ change the country. we won't talk about the figure that's _ change the country. we won't talk about the figure that's being - about the figure that's being bandied about all week because we give it more oxygen if we do, it's been disputed by civil servants— but the i have set —— iff said you're not being truthful with the public because you're making pledges and not telling people that either they are two options, one you either cut public services or you raise taxes. i know you'll say we have to grow the economy, but growth doesn't come in a few weeks or months.— in a few weeks or months. we are realistic about _ in a few weeks or months. we are realistic about the _ in a few weeks or months. we are realistic about the scale _ in a few weeks or months. we are realistic about the scale of - realistic about the scale of the changes needed to grow the economy. one of the policies we've already put forward is about planning reforms so we can get britain building again and getting the economy growing. we can't do this overnight but we can start day one by delivering economic stability that keeps people's mortgages, their rents, taxes as low as possible. i would sayjudge us by the consistency of our message over the last four years, you haven't seen us put forward commitments when we don't know how we will pay for them. you just challenged me about some of the criticism of what may or may not be in the manifesto— the truth is we aren't making commitments we can't afford. for me, this is personal because i represent a working class constituency, it's their money and people don't have a lot of it after 14 years of tory government. we will not play fast and loose with people's finances and we will not hit working people, they are already struggling with the highest tax burden in the 17 years. you come from a constituency _ burden in the 17 years. you come from a constituency with - burden in the 17 years. you come from a constituency with a - burden in the 17 years. you come | from a constituency with a subsite —— sizeable muslim vote, they are very unhappy about the situation in gaza. jonathan reynolds i think said tonight, orjonathan ashworth, sorry, that there will be a commitment in there to recognise palestinian statehood before the peace process is finalised. why have you taken that decision?— you taken that decision? we've had a long-standing _ you taken that decision? we've had a long-standing policy _ you taken that decision? we've had a long-standing policy to _ you taken that decision? we've had a long-standing policy to recognise i long—standing policy to recognise palestine as part of a peace process towards a two state solution. that's really significant because many times, when people talk about recognising palestine, they talk about it as if it's the outcome of a peace process. we believe it's a essential contribution to the peace process. you can't have a negotiation between two sides if you don't recognise that one... i don't recognise that one... i understand that but we know what keir starmer inherited, some of the anti—semitism they are in the party, and you will also be aware of the response there was from israel to the announcement in ireland, norway and spainjust the the announcement in ireland, norway and spain just the other week, the announcement in ireland, norway and spainjust the other week, a similar announcement. and spainjust the other week, a similarannouncement. if you and spainjust the other week, a similar announcement. if you were in government, what sort of relations will you have with the israeli government on the back of an announcement like this? fit government on the back of an announcement like this? of course we will have our— announcement like this? of course we will have our disagreements _ announcement like this? of course we will have our disagreements with - will have our disagreements with other democratically elected governments, we've been criticalfor example of the netanyahu government over the decision to press ahead with the offensive in rafah. we've called for an immediate cease—fire, they clearly don't agree — but that is our considered view and firm beliefs. and it's our view that we have to speak up in the interests of people here in the uk and across the world, this is having a major destabilising effect on the entire region in the middle east, and many palestinian lives are at stake, many of them women and children. so we have the right to speak up and will always use our voice when we can. and what a labour government respect the decisions of the icc? late and what a labour government respect the decisions of the icc?— the decisions of the icc? we would, we recognise _ the decisions of the icc? we would, we recognise the _ the decisions of the icc? we would, we recognise the jurisdiction. - the decisions of the icc? we would, we recognise the jurisdiction. so i we recognise the 'urisdiction. so ou we recognise the jurisdiction. so you would arrest the israeli prime minister if he came to britain? i minister if he came to britain? i don't think it would come to minister if he came to britain? i don't think it would come to that, more importantly by upholding the rule of law and absolutely being crystal clear that actions have consequences, we make it more likely rather than less that a cease—fire is agreed and get a meaningful peace process back up and running. that's in the interest of israeli citizens as well as palestinians. i in the interest of israeli citizens as well as palestinians.- as well as palestinians. i want to talk to you _ as well as palestinians. i want to talk to you about _ as well as palestinians. i want to talk to you about the _ as well as palestinians. i want to talk to you about the policy you i as well as palestinians. i want to i talk to you about the policy you set “p talk to you about the policy you set up today because it's so important to young people and we must engage young people in politics because there's a lot of apathy out there. it relates to the freedom to buy mortgage guarantee scheme — it will help... nigel farage is here, the newly minted leader of reform uk who will be on stage night, one of the seven. he's being heckled at the entrance to a new broadcasting house, but there he is waiting to the cameras that are there. sorry, i was just saying as we watch those pictures, it will help 80,000 young people — in 2021, six .6 million were living with their parents. how will you help them? late were living with their parents. how will you help them?— were living with their parents. how will you help them? we will get the written building _ will you help them? we will get the written building again _ will you help them? we will get the written building again and - will you help them? we will get the written building again and continue | written building again and continue the scheme for people who don't have huge money to get into the housing latter —— britain building again. we will also get a renters reform charter that will help many people being protected from unfair practices in the private rental sector, creating the stability they need to save for a deposit and fulfil the dream of homeownership. this is the full extent our housing policies — we've announced many more and others are yet to be revealed in the manifesto. but make no mistake, this is not the moment to be pulling the rug out from it a generation of first—time buyers. you the rug out from it a generation of first-time buyers.— the rug out from it a generation of first-time buyers. you voted against some of the — first-time buyers. you voted against some of the planning _ first-time buyers. you voted against some of the planning rules - first-time buyers. you voted against some of the planning rules in - first-time buyers. you voted against some of the planning rules in the i some of the planning rules in the commons. some of the planning rules in the commons-— commons. we've been absolute consistent _ commons. we've been absolute consistent on _ commons. we've been absolute consistent on planning. - commons. we've been absolute consistent on planning. we i commons. we've been absolute i consistent on planning. we believe this needs reform because at the moment, communities are brought in at the end of the process when there's very little to discuss, which often makes it a very antagonistic process. we want to bring communities in early and make sure we crack on and get that housing built. it's gotta be the right sorts of housing for communities, we want to see more affordable social homes built in this country and we've got a plan to do this. but what we have to put up with is the endless delays in the planning system while many millions languish on waiting lists an entire generation... so there will be a social housing programme? we are committed to a social and affordable housing programme. when we say affordable, we mean genuinely affordable, we mean genuinely affordable, not something out of reach from the majority of people. we'll be announcing more details in our manifesto but i'm afraid you'll have to wait and see what they are. that's why you are in a secret many today, i know, everyone has been trying to track you. do you like nights like this in the spin room? you got the short straw? i you got the short straw? i was chattin: you got the short straw? i was chatting to _ you got the short straw? i was chatting to angela _ you got the short straw? i was chatting to angela rayner- you got the short straw? i was chatting to angela rayner on i you got the short straw? i was i chatting to angela rayner on the you got the short straw? laws chatting to angela rayner on the way and i think we are relishing the opportunity to put our case to the country. labour has put in a lot of work and we are confident that we are right and what this country needs, but we know we need to go out and make the case and win the argument, and we will go and fight for every single vote in this election because there's so much at stake for the country. lisa election because there's so much at stake for the country.— stake for the country. lisa nandy, thanks for coming _ stake for the country. lisa nandy, thanks for coming along. - stake for the country. lisa nandy, thanks for coming along. lisa i stake for the country. lisa nandy, thanks for coming along. lisa will| thanks for coming along. lisa will be here in the spin room, and we will talk to you later when we've heard the bait. we have a full complement, no one has given backward, all seven parties are represented on stage tonight, still with about 50 minutes still to go. preparations being made, they'll be introduced to the studio which is not far away from me, 100 yards from where i'm standing, and they'll be introduced no doubt to the moderator, michelle hussein tonight, spare a thought for her trying to get all seven fully represented. it's really interesting in a more colloquial way, just getting some idea of people's policies and manifestos. you still get a sense that ideas are developing within each party. i that ideas are developing within each party-— each party. i think each party is cominu each party. i think each party is coming here — each party. i think each party is coming here was _ each party. i think each party is coming here was something - each party. i think each party is coming here was something to | each party. i think each party is - coming here was something to say, something they want to get out. they'll be surprised by questions, they know the broad themes that will come up. but everyone is coming here with an idea of what they want the message to put out. if you think about the last debate we had between keir starmer and rishi sunak, about the last debate we had between keir starmerand rishi sunak, it about the last debate we had between keir starmer and rishi sunak, it was obvious that rishi sunak wanted to hammer home that message about labour pots spending patterns. that's something to watch out for, the party's returning to, what is the party's returning to, what is the key theme each party wants to push, the key messages? they know they'll have limited time so they know they need to get things out over and over again, even if there is a slight diversion. we over and over again, even if there is a slight diversion.— is a slight diversion. we will fix our mic is a slight diversion. we will fix your mic because _ is a slight diversion. we will fix your mic because it _ is a slight diversion. we will fix your mic because it is - is a slight diversion. we will fix your mic because it is a - is a slight diversion. we will fix. your mic because it is a problem with your mike. let's go outside and speak to nicky schiller — he's like the man on the pitch, he's been welcoming all the leaders who've come, and we have a full team. everyone is in, the last and was nigel farage and i have to say, you can always tell how the snappers down at the end, when someone is coming, the most snaps were for nigel farage. i have to also say, quite a lot of snaps of someone who isn't taking part of the debate, which was laura kuenssberg, who stepped in between a few of the politicians that arrived. but we have a full complement, all the politicians have arrived, all seven will be heading into the radio theatre where the debate is being stage tonight. the production team finalising the questions that will be asked as well. the questions themselves are coming from both members of the audience — about 100-120 members of the audience — about 100—120 members in the audience — and also questions sent in by members of the public. we think there is a 90 minute debate, there'll be time for 6—7 questions. members of the but their questions in in advance, but when they arrived to take part in tonight prospect debate, they were allowed to change their so they can react to the day's new events. we've been talking a lot about rishi sunak and that apology over the d—day commemoration, so a member of the audience has probably decide to put that in as a question and they may be questioned about it. of course the seven politicians do not know what they will be asked at all. michelle hussein will be holding the debate together — it'll be interesting to see how it compares to the debate we had on tuesday between the two man who one which will be prime minister rishi sunak answer keir starmer. there was a lot of shouting, voices raised. will that happen when there are seven of them on stage? it's quite interesting how as they were arriving some of some of them were very relaxed, not in ties, and also when nigel farage arrived, the security around here was definitely raised. and he brought his own photographer with him, and he paused before going in to have photos taken by one of the reform party photographers who was with nigel farage. so they are all inside. they are probably having a drink or getting some makeup on, ready to take part in that debate which we know will start at 7:30pm, lasting 90 minutes. and you and the rest of your people will be dissecting it because there be a lot to talk about after those questions have been answered during the debate i'm sure. indeed there will, you very much indeed for that. one thing we've not talked about, rishi sunak in wiltshirejust a few talked about, rishi sunak in wiltshire just a few minutes ago — heckled, some of the debate and the two and fro was over gp staffing in gp surgeries, but he also was heckled about the d—day issue, and again another fulsome apology for leaving yesterday. what do you make of it? , ' . ., leaving yesterday. what do you make ofit? ., , leaving yesterday. what do you make ofit? ., of it? difficult for politicians on the campaign _ of it? difficult for politicians on the campaign trail— of it? difficult for politicians on the campaign trail because - of it? difficult for politicians on | the campaign trail because they of it? difficult for politicians on - the campaign trail because they are trying to get out and about as much as possible, get to as many visit scenarios, groups of people as possible. but the danger with that is they run the risk of this happening. this woman who heckled rishi sunak about the nhs, it seems she was a conservative member but not afraid to make your views heard on the nhs. if that's what he's getting from a conservative member, think about what he could get from someone who's just a normal floating voter. so if you think about the calculations of those running the campaigns, do they put the leaders up campaigns, do they put the leaders up in scenarios where they can readily be questioned or heckled by members of the public? if they don't, they run the risk of their campaign looking very stage—managed and the accusations it's all closed doors and protected. rishi sunak will obviously be more mindful given what's happened to him today about interacting with the public, but keir starmer, last week there was a small protest in south wales east, and i was with him last week, a group of people talking about gaza. these are things that happen when politicians go out to meet the public, and it should be that way. this is where politicians are trying to have contact with voters, it's the point of maximum access when politicians are out and about, but i think it is a risky thing, and you get a sense of momentum building where people feel they've got a carte blanche to do it. lisa where people feel they've got a carte blanche to do it.— carte blanche to do it. lisa was re carte blanche to do it. lisa was pretty bullish _ carte blanche to do it. lisa was pretty bullish about _ carte blanche to do it. lisa was pretty bullish about their - carte blanche to do it. lisa was pretty bullish about their offer| carte blanche to do it. lisa was i pretty bullish about their offer on palestinian statehood —— lisa nandi, and also what had been negotiated today within the national executive committee — we've heard that the union has pushed back on some, but she think that's a bold offer. bald she think that's a bold offer. bold is an interesting _ she think that's a bold offer. ieer is an interesting choice of words. all the discussions about the labour manifesto is it'll be pretty muted in terms of, have we heard everything before? pretty much. social care will be interesting, it's not something we've heard a big bang from on labour, that'll be one to watch just off the top of my head. to watch 'ust off the top of my head. �* , , , . ., , head. it's interesting because thinkina head. it's interesting because thinking back _ head. it's interesting because thinking back to _ head. it's interesting because thinking back to boris - head. it's interesting because| thinking back to boris johnson head. it's interesting because - thinking back to boris johnson and thinking back to borisjohnson and the pledge on the steps of downing street that he would sort social care — no one has really got their arms around it. liberal democrats and lord fox here saying they'll tackle social care, but not to the extent of stopping the problems they have in the hospitals, the bed blockers, getting people proper care and on the community— nothing like that. we have to be mindful of what happened to theresa may during the 2017 election campaign when she announced a policy on how to fix social care, and it was banded a dementia tax and her manifesto unraveled from there. i anticipate labour would've wanted to say something to indicate a direction of travel on this before the election was called, it seems quite a big policy area to have had silence on. we've heard a lot from wes streeting, the man who wants to be health secretary, about his plans for the nhs. health secretary, about his plans forthe nhs-— health secretary, about his plans for the nhs. ., ., .,, for the nhs. that something that was tried before and _ for the nhs. that something that was tried before and hasn't _ for the nhs. that something that was tried before and hasn't resulted - for the nhs. that something that was tried before and hasn't resulted in - tried before and hasn't resulted in anything. but i think they would've liked to have been in a position where they said something a bit more substantial so it wasn't a complete surprise, and i think if you have a policy vacuum that hasn't been addressed before, that's where the attention will focus. at the manifesto process, there was a formal vote on this secret clause five meeting that happened to sign off on the manifesto, there was no vote, and you're obviously curing the different elements the labour party pull away, this idea of united, workers' rights being a flashpoint for them. i guess the question will be, what will they do about it? one of labour's biggest donors, will they pull funding? labour obviously has fingers and other pies when it comes to money. we have the leader of plaid cymru on the stage tonight, rhun ap iorwerth, and it's been such a significant week, the minister of wales losing a vote of no—confidence, two of his own side staying away from the vote — it wasn't binding so he's not obliged to go. but how does keir starmer go out on the road and just really —— in wales with a man so political he damaged beside him? zion political he damaged beside him? am guessing is holding onto his position, but his authority has been massively diminished by that vote. you could see when it was announced he was very emotional. keir starmer has given his backing, and labour it maintains it was a very clinical move to bring this vote of no—confidence. but labour making inroads in wales has been a significant redrawing of the pounds of constituencies, so it's a different electoral landscape and labour will be looking to make significant gains there, so they are certainly vulnerable. if you think about the attacks you hear from tories, they point to labour's record in wales, talk about nhs waiting list which are high in wales. this is a vulnerable point for labour. it's not idealfor keir starmer to have the situation before getting there. the hope is he can write it out, and the message you hear from wales, they launch their campaign in wales saying that having a prize, a labour government in wales, working to have a more harmonious relationship saying this is what they want, and it can be greater than the sum of its parts. in their eyes, it is a huge price, but given the possession of vaughan gething, questions unanswered when it came to those donations. 1milli gething, questions unanswered when it came to those donations.— it came to those donations. will be heanna it came to those donations. will be hearing from _ it came to those donations. will be hearing from plaid _ it came to those donations. will be hearing from plaid cymru - it came to those donations. will be hearing from plaid cymru in - hearing from plaid cymru in sometime. in terms of the style of the debate tonight, it's the only one aside from itv, they get two shots tonight. how precious is a moment like this for the smaller parties, for the greens, for plaid cymru? even in scotland may be, for the lib dems?— cymru? even in scotland may be, for the lib dems? cast your mind back to the lib dems? cast your mind back to the 2010 election, — the lib dems? cast your mind back to the 2010 election, and _ the lib dems? cast your mind back to the 2010 election, and nick _ the lib dems? cast your mind back to the 2010 election, and nick clegg's i the 2010 election, and nick clegg's fame was catapulted by the 2010 debates. all the smallest parties get squeezed out in the noise. for a lot of people it might well be the first time they are hearing in detailfrom even penny mourdaunt first time they are hearing in detail from even penny mourdaunt or angela rayner. there are obviously different levels in terms of people's engagement with politics, but for the smaller parties, there's more pressure on them to make sure that their message is heard, that they've got a smaller target area to try and improve their standing. so is a really crucial platform. certainly nigel farage newly admitted to this debate since becoming leader only earlier this week — that is certainly a platform... week - that is certainly a platform- - -_ week - that is certainly a platform... week - that is certainly a latform... , ,, ~ platform... on this issue, ithink it was a point — platform... on this issue, ithink it was a point christian _ platform... on this issue, ithink it was a point christian guru - platform... on this issue, i think. it was a point christian guru murthy made, when he said he became leader of reform uk, he made the point that it was actually like a company, and he's the boss — so it's not as if there is a democratic process going on within the party that says, "hey, we will choose nigel to be the leader." i wasjust we will choose nigel to be the leader." i was just sort of venturing the thought last night, you have a verdict in new york, damaging polls out of the weekend for donald trump, there was all sorts of speculation he would take on a role within the trump administration — perhaps the difficulties and concerns, would he have thought, "my better position is backing you paid —— back in uk politics?" backing you paid -- back in uk politics?"— backing you paid -- back in uk olitics?�* .,, ,, . ~ ., politics?" cast your mind back to last week where _ politics?" cast your mind back to last week where nigel _ politics?" cast your mind back to last week where nigel farage - politics?" cast your mind back to | last week where nigel farage was asked point—blank about his intentions to stand again as an mp. he said there wasn't more important election going on in america. he very much gave the impression that he would get close to the trump camp, saying he felt he could have more impact and influence on a more important election in his eyes. and here we are, he's now had a complete change of heart, which he declared quite upfront. i think in terms of what he's chosen to become a leader, this debate is almost an example of one of the benefits of becoming the leader of the party, you are suddenly invited into a different circle where he gets to make the case for his party — he obviously sees himself as a very successful campaigner, given his past role in the brexit campaign, thinking he can raise his profile much more if he's at the helm of reform rather than being the honorary present as he was. the trapping of leadership is greater, and therefore that perhaps goes some way to explain his calculation.— goes some way to explain his calculation. ,, . ., ., , calculation. shall we go to chris mason, calculation. shall we go to chris mason. who _ calculation. shall we go to chris mason, who is _ calculation. shall we go to chris mason, who is somehow- calculation. shall we go to chris mason, who is somehow able . calculation. shall we go to chris| mason, who is somehow able to calculation. shall we go to chris - mason, who is somehow able to speak to us from a train on his way here. drinking his coffee! can you hear me, chris mason? i drinking his coffee! can you hear me, chris mason?— drinking his coffee! can you hear me, chris mason? i can, hello, good evenina. me, chris mason? i can, hello, good evening- good _ me, chris mason? i can, hello, good evening. good evening, _ me, chris mason? i can, hello, good evening. good evening, can - me, chris mason? i can, hello, good evening. good evening, can i - me, chris mason? i can, hello, good evening. good evening, can i read i evening. good evening, can i read ou evening. good evening, can i read you some — evening. good evening, can i read you some bbc _ evening. good evening, can i read you some bbc copy? _ evening. good evening, can i read you some bbc copy? this - evening. good evening, can i read you some bbc copy? this is - evening. good evening, can i read you some bbc copy? this is from | you some bbc copy? this is from kathy long. "the bbc asked the prime minister's office on wednesday evening to confirm whether or not prime ministers sunak would be attending the international his office confirmed a grant shapps would be deputizing for the prime minister at the event at omaha beach." was at the answer we got early in the day, chris? it’s beach." was at the answer we got early in the day, chris?— early in the day, chris? it's so... interesting. _ early in the day, chris? it's so... interesting, i'm _ early in the day, chris? it's so... interesting, i'm picking - early in the day, chris? it's so... interesting, i'm picking the - early in the day, chris? it's so... - interesting, i'm picking the anatomy of a cauth— interesting, i'm picking the anatomy of a caulk up, let's put as it is... prime _ of a caulk up, let's put as it is... prime minister sunak acknowledges that he _ prime minister sunak acknowledges that he made a mistake in not attending _ that he made a mistake in not attending the international event at the end _ attending the international event at the end of— attending the international event at the end of the d—day. the promise or's office — the end of the d—day. the promise or's office insisted going to that event, — or's office insisted going to that event, and that had been decided some _ event, and that had been decided some weeks ago before the general election— some weeks ago before the general election campaign was under way. but even election campaign was underway. but even if_ election campaign was under way. but even if it— election campaign was under way. but even if it was decided back then, firstly— even if it was decided back then, firstly they had decided back then that they— firstly they had decided back then that they would attend that final event _ that they would attend that final event with all the questions around the prime — event with all the questions around the prime minister'sjudgment, there would've _ the prime minister'sjudgment, there would've been... the prime minister's 'udgment, there would've been...— would've been... we've lost chris mason. i would've been... we've lost chris mason- i did _ would've been. .. we've lost chris mason. i did think— would've been... we've lost chris mason. i did think it _ would've been... we've lost chris mason. i did think it would - would've been... we've lost chris mason. i did think it would be - would've been... we've lost chris i mason. i did think it would be bold, speaking to chris — i can never get a phone call of a train, never mind a phone call of a train, never mind a broadcast. that idea that he actually wasn't going to go at all to normandy — he seemed categorically, to sky news this morning, that that was never the case, now we understand that in fact, he was thinking of not going. his line has always been that the itinerary was planned many months in advance. now when that exactly was, you don't know how much noticed rishi sunak had that he would call an election when he did. there was talk early in the air that he would time the election with the may local elections, so obviously it's been in his mind. this kind of event would've been planned with so much notice, and i think there is starting to be some inconsistencies in the stories, various camps saying different things. he wants to make the point that people intended —— that he intended to attend the part that he intended to attend the part that he intended to attend the part that he did in the event that it was david cameron who ended up being the substitute, whether it was a last—minute swap in or not. to substitute, whether it was a last-minute swap in or not. to me that was the _ last-minute swap in or not. to me that was the most _ last-minute swap in or not. to me that was the most awkward - last-minute swap in or not. to me that was the most awkward point. | last-minute swap in or not. to me| that was the most awkward point. i have to say, because i was editing, i hadn't really put two and two together, but there is this moment when they were standing at omaha beach that olaf scholz, emmanuel macron, joe biden, and the former prime minister— but he's not promised her any more — standing at attention. promised her any more - standing at attention. , , , . attention. they did slightly exclude him, i attention. they did slightly exclude him. i noticed _ attention. they did slightly exclude him, i noticed that _ attention. they did slightly exclude him, i noticed that in _ attention. they did slightly exclude him, i noticed that in that - attention. they did slightly exclude him, i noticed that in that shot. - him, i noticed that in that shot. again, when david cameron came back, remember a surprise it was when he walked up downing street. there was a lot of discussion about, how would actually work, having a former prime minister in the cabinet? very statesman—like, doing that diplomacy role required for the foreign secretary. role required for the foreign secretary-— role required for the foreign secreta . . . , ., ., secretary. was there a moment when joe biden secretary. was there a moment when joe biden clearly _ secretary. was there a moment when joe biden clearly felt _ secretary. was there a moment when joe biden clearly felt embarrassed - joe biden clearly felt embarrassed about it and reached across — what a day for that to happen, the uk should have been front and centre. and we heard from david cameron earlier today who defended rishi sunak�*s decision to apologise, talking about how he may have had other things to do. but you wonder what lord cameron made of the decision himself. do what lord cameron made of the decision himself.— what lord cameron made of the decision himself. do you need to be told that's a — decision himself. do you need to be told that's a problem? _ decision himself. do you need to be told that's a problem? or _ decision himself. do you need to be told that's a problem? or should i decision himself. do you need to be| told that's a problem? or should you have a political antenna good enough to spot that maybe it's not a good idea at this moment in history for me to go back for an itv interview? i guess a charitable interpretation of it would be these plans are well laid months in advance, itineraries are getting bashed out very quickly, the prime minister has a very busy schedule — let's do that, but not that, let's come back, finding, no one bats an eye, move onto the next and next thing. the itv interview comes across as a prospect, we got half a day in the calendar, let's sort it, pam. you can see how this series of events ended up being that. ., ., .. ., , that. the fog of the calendar gets in the way- _ that. the fog of the calendar gets in the way. let's _ that. the fog of the calendar gets in the way. let's bring _ that. the fog of the calendar gets in the way. let's bring in - that. the fog of the calendar gets| in the way. let's bring in chris, he can chip in on this. there will be some who say it speaks to the character of the prime minister that the —— and there'll be others who say his political antenna isjust off completely, and he got it wrong. hello again, i'm trying on the phone this time, _ hello again, i'm trying on the phone this time, i— hello again, i'm trying on the phone this time, i guess this will work. this is to a degree where stagecraft and statecraft where as the head of government appearing out in international event that itinerary which _ international event that itinerary which was — international event that itinerary which was signed off weeks back one source _ which was signed off weeks back one source adjusted to meet what happens at events _ source adjusted to meet what happens at events like this the prime minister's schedule in the head of state. _ minister's schedule in the head of state. the — minister's schedule in the head of state, the king's schedule tend to mirror— state, the king's schedule tend to mirror and — state, the king's schedule tend to mirror and the king was not at that event _ mirror and the king was not at that event either that the prime minister missed _ event either that the prime minister missed but it is not a hard and fast the prime — missed but it is not a hard and fast the prime minister... that they messed — the prime minister... that they messed up— the prime minister... that they messed up that he had stayed. it is part of— messed up that he had stayed. it is part of the — messed up that he had stayed. it is part of the statecraft of an international event with the politics _ international event with the politics of an election campaign and an incredibly busy diary, no one clocked — an incredibly busy diary, no one clocked quickly enough on the conservative campaign that him living _ conservative campaign that him living early would love dreadful and as soon _ living early would love dreadful and as soon as — living early would love dreadful and as soon as they realised it looked dreadful— as soon as they realised it looked dreadful they apologised. the consequence of apologising was to put consequence of apologising was to but rocket — consequence of apologising was to put rocket boosters under this news story. _ put rocket boosters under this news story. but _ put rocket boosters under this news story, but from the prime minister's perspective — story, but from the prime minister's perspective he will hope at least some _ perspective he will hope at least some people will conclude, he fouled up some people will conclude, he fouled up but _ some people will conclude, he fouled up but apologise, he is someone who is willing _ up but apologise, he is someone who is willing to _ up but apologise, he is someone who is willing to apologise when he makes — is willing to apologise when he makes a — is willing to apologise when he makes a mistake. but the mistake is a bl- makes a mistake. but the mistake is a big one _ makes a mistake. but the mistake is a big one in — makes a mistake. but the mistake is a big one in the kind of one that people — a big one in the kind of one that people may well within the noise of an election — people may well within the noise of an election campaign, the voters washes— an election campaign, the voters washes over people. that is why it is potentially politically deaf city for the _ is potentially politically deaf city for the prime minister. plenty of conservatives arcing —— plenty of conservatives arcing —— plenty of conservatives are furious because this is— conservatives are furious because this is something that will be noticed _ this is something that will be noticed. ., ~ this is something that will be noticed. ., ,, , ., ., this is something that will be noticed. ., ,, ., ., noticed. thank you for that. hopefully — noticed. thank you for that. hopefully we _ noticed. thank you for that. hopefully we will _ noticed. thank you for that. hopefully we will talk - noticed. thank you for that. hopefully we will talk to - noticed. thank you for that. hopefully we will talk to in l noticed. thank you for that. - hopefully we will talk to in person when you get here. the debate around half an hour away but david davis the former consecutive secretary for exiting the european union is with me. army veteran formally an air squadron? is that right? in me. army veteran formally an air squadron? is that right?- squadron? is that right? in your da ? squadron? is that right? in your day? let's— squadron? is that right? in your day? let's leave _ squadron? is that right? in your day? let's leave them - squadron? is that right? in your| day? let's leave them guessing. squadron? is that right? in your. day? let's leave them guessing. i know you've had service in your time so i'm bound to ask you what you made of the prime minister's decision to leave omaha beach yesterday? it decision to leave omaha beach yesterday?— decision to leave omaha beach esterda ? ., , .,~ ., ., yesterday? it was a mistake, no two wa s yesterday? it was a mistake, no two ways about — yesterday? it was a mistake, no two ways about that. _ yesterday? it was a mistake, no two ways about that. he _ yesterday? it was a mistake, no two ways about that. he realised - yesterday? it was a mistake, no two ways about that. he realised it - ways about that. he realised it was a mistake pretty quickly and he apologised pretty quickly. fair enough, mistakes happen in election campaigns, we are all under time pressures. even me and i am not the prime minister going from one interview to another, one instant to another. i was actually there for the 65th, this is the 80th, i was there for the 65 and i thought many would be dead soon and we should pay our respects. when i went there, literally, gordon brown was not even going to go out all. that literally, gordon brown was not even going to go out all.— going to go out all. that is what we have 'ust going to go out all. that is what we have just heard _ going to go out all. that is what we have just heard here. _ going to go out all. that is what we have just heard here. we _ going to go out all. that is what we have just heard here. we have - going to go out all. that is what we l have just heard here. we have heard havejust heard here. we have heard that in fact they asked head of the commemoration thursday whether he would go in they were told grant shapps that defence secretary was going to go in his place. so clearly there was a decision pending the the prime minister would not go at all. but the point here with gordon brown was he decided not to go out until obama went to. you want to rub shoulders with obama not to pay respects. i was there. i watched the behaviour going on. that was an explicit decision. here it was a mistake. there enough, he made a mistake. there enough, he made a mistake on my wish he had not, but he's apologise and that's it. i've spent 20 years going to memorial services as a trustee going to memorial services anti—source of advance as well and i take it very seriously. these people made sacrifices and their comrades made sacrifices and their comrades made sacrifices which is given us the freedom to talk freely today. that is what it is _ freedom to talk freely today. that is what it is about. _ freedom to talk freely today. that is what it is about. what you say to 18—year—olds around the country, we want to give up a year of your life for public service when the prime minister cannot even spend an afternoon on the beaches of normandy paying respects? i afternoon on the beaches of normandy paying respects?— paying respects? i understand he sent the paying respects? i understand he spent the morning _ paying respects? i understand he spent the morning with _ paying respects? i understand he spent the morning with the - paying respects? i understand he - spent the morning with the veterans. that was the point. doing all of the british advance, the latter part was with joe british advance, the latter part was withjoe biden and the french president and so on. that was not with the veterans. i wish she had been there because it would've been the whole day, but nevertheless, his first aim to see the veterans, the opposite of what gordon brown did at the 65th. the opposite of what gordon brown did at the 65th. ,., ., , ., ., the 65th. the point was made earlier in makin: the 65th. the point was made earlier in making a — the 65th. the point was made earlier in making a political— the 65th. the point was made earlier in making a political comparative - in making a political comparative was scott morrison, the former australian prime minister going on holiday to hawaii or people were struggling with the bushfires. it feels of that magnitude. it isn't. that was a _ feels of that magnitude. it isn't. that was a explicit _ feels of that magnitude. it isn't. that was a explicit slow-motion| that was a explicit slow—motion decision. this was a diary mistake and whoever it wrong. and he did not catch it. that was the mistake. he did not catch it. i'm sorry for that and i apologise, myself i apologise. you are apologising for the leader. there are a lot of constituent candidates out there who question first of all the decision to go so early, have questioned the way the policy has been outlined and briefed to the press and now, are making apologies for the leader. he is your biggest liability at the moment. pig. biggest liability at the moment. no, not at all. biggest liability at the moment. no, not at all- he _ biggest liability at the moment. no, not at all. he is _ biggest liability at the moment. firm. not at all. he is a decent and hard—working man, a clever man and a patriot. he is giving up income to do thisjob in patriot. he is giving up income to do this job in a way that most are not. and he is very good as a prime minister. but he has made a mistake here. if minister. but he has made a mistake here. , ., . . here. if you had been with him yesterday. _ here. if you had been with him yesterday, what _ here. if you had been with him yesterday, what would - here. if you had been with him yesterday, what would you - here. if you had been with him. yesterday, what would you have here. if you had been with him - yesterday, what would you have said to him? i yesterday, what would you have said to him? ., ., , yesterday, what would you have said to him?— that! to him? i would have said stay. that is month problems _ to him? i would have said stay. that is month problems the _ to him? i would have said stay. that is month problems the conservative | is month problems the conservative mps we have had before said the people around him do not understand the game and they are making the mistakes and not guarding him properly. mistakes and not guarding him --roerl . . . mistakes and not guarding him --roerl. . ... mistakes and not guarding him --roerl. . .. . ., properly. this is an election campaign. _ properly. this is an election campaign. it _ properly. this is an election campaign, it is _ properly. this is an election campaign, it is not - properly. this is an election campaign, it is not about i properly. this is an election | campaign, it is not about the properly. this is an election - campaign, it is not about the staff, it is about the future. it is about what people want for the future, for their families, what people want for the future, for theirfamilies, for their what people want for the future, for their families, for their parents, children, for themselves. they will not be viewing super technical analysis on whether or not they manage this or that properly. that is the tony blair attitude of politics which i do not accept. my constituents on the doorstep, they understand and i have talked to them today and they understand this and accept the he has made a mistake. and they accept his apology and also accept that he is trying to do the best for the country he can. that is the most important thing about all of this. . .. the most important thing about all of this. , ., , , the most important thing about all of this. , ., ,, ., , of this. there is an issue of trust here. of this. there is an issue of trust here- we — of this. there is an issue of trust here- we now — of this. there is an issue of trust here. we now have _ of this. there is an issue of trust here. we now have learned - of this. there is an issue of trust i here. we now have learned that he maybe was not going to go at all will stop in wiltshire a few moments ago he is talking about the £2000 tax rights of every household over four years that he said the labour party will bring about. we know already and we have talked about it all week that those numbers that are behind that figure were supplied by the government to silver or sovereigns who are not independent civil servants who work for the government of the day. so it is a lie. ... government of the day. so it is a lie. ,., . ., ., lie. he said it came from the treasury- _ lie. he said it came from the treasury. there _ lie. he said it came from the treasury. there are - lie. he said it came from the treasury. there are two - lie. he said it came from the - treasury. there are two components. those the labour party has costed for themselves and bread that is available, that is what he has taken. almost certainly an underestimate but have accepted that. and where treasury civil servants costed the policies put to them by labour, they have taken the lowest of the estimates. they always give you a range of estimates, a forecast between 1,000,000,001.4 billion and they have taken the lowest of the key point here is that this is the least the labour party will be imposing on ordinary working people. yesterday, the guardian, said, there are 12 tax increases for september in an emergency budget and we have not heard a word of that. if the labour party will admit what it is intending to do and how... share is intending to do and how... are ou is intending to do and how... are you admitting because the spectator is right—leaning is actually under a conservative government it would actually cost us £3000 over four years. i actually cost us £3000 over four ears. ., �* ., ., years. i don't agree with that. one ofthe years. i don't agree with that. one of the questions _ years. i don't agree with that. one of the questions i've _ years. i don't agree with that. one of the questions i've just - years. i don't agree with that. one of the questions i've just been - of the questions i've just been asked in another interview is you are saying, these areas of expenditure are not protected. there is a reason. we have to control it. conservative party believes in getting value for money. we have not got a long enough interview to do it, but i could walk you through what gordon brown did when he came in. the reason it's relevant is rachel reeves has said she will copy it. it cost us £5 for every pound of investment. that sort of waste we cannot afford. it's arguments to be had. labour have to fess up on what they will actually do._ they will actually do. thank you to have ou they will actually do. thank you to have you here- — they will actually do. thank you to have you here. david _ they will actually do. thank you to have you here. david davis - they will actually do. thank you to have you here. david davis there, | have you here. david davis there, former secretary of state for exiting the european union. i will give you a quick whirl around the spin room which is filling up nicely withjust over 21 minutes spin room which is filling up nicely with just over 21 minutes to the debate. with 90 minutes of debate earning from 730 this evening. seven parties on stage. let me put the slate on screen of who will be taking part in this debate tonight. if penny mordaunt conservative leader of the house, the labour deputy leader angela rayner. the deputy leader angela rayner. the deputy leader angela rayner. the deputy leader of the liberal democrats daisy cooper, stephen flynn, snp leader in the commons. rhun ap iorwerth, the leader of plaid cymru. carla denyer co—leader of the greens in england and wales and of course nigel farage, the newly installed leader of reform uk. so that is the view you are looking at their of the journalists who will be getting reaction to what we hear over the next couple of hours and maybe speak to some of those journalists shortly. here at the table with me we have got zach polansky who is the deputy leader of the green party. hello to you. also here we have a member from the green party. hello to you. also here we have a memberfrom plaid cymru. i hope i pronounce that correctly. let's start with what we will hear from correctly. let's start with what we will hearfrom plaid cymru tonight. it will be quite a difficult election because there are a lot of boundary changes in wales. how concerned are you about that? irate boundary changes in wales. how concerned are you about that? we are concerned are you about that? we are concerned that — concerned are you about that? we are concerned that there _ concerned are you about that? we are concerned that there is _ concerned are you about that? we are concerned that there is a _ concerned are you about that? we are concerned that there is a reduction . concerned that there is a reduction from a0 to a2 and p is meaning that there is less politicians to represent our communities and larger constituencies and so it is a huge concern for many people in wales that their voices will not be heard. that is why we will hear from rhun ap iorwerth tonight about our vision for wales about why it is important we have plaid cymru and be standing up we have plaid cymru and be standing up for our communities. showing that it is not a boundary choice between labour party and the tories. both parties want to be seen as a binary choice. that was exacerbated by the it debate the other night. fie choice. that was exacerbated by the it debate the other night.— it debate the other night. no more iranorin it debate the other night. no more ignoring wales _ it debate the other night. no more ignoring wales at _ it debate the other night. no more ignoring wales at westminster. - it debate the other night. no more ignoring wales at westminster. isl it debate the other night. no more | ignoring wales at westminster. is it a campaignfor ignoring wales at westminster. is it a campaign for independence? irate ignoring wales at westminster. is it a campaign for independence? we are ianored b a campaign for independence? we are ignored by westminster _ a campaign for independence? we are ignored by westminster and _ a campaign for independence? we are ignored by westminster and that - a campaign for independence? we are ignored by westminster and that is . ignored by westminster and that is evident that we don't receive their funding. we are owed £a billion from the hs@ consequential the state needs to be defaults we want fairness for our communities and thatis fairness for our communities and that is not there for the moment —— hsz that is not there for the moment —— hs2 consequential. as plaid cymru mps fight for wales at every opportunity but also showing that people will see tonight that there is a choice in wales and plaid cymru is a choice in wales and plaid cymru is that choice the progress of choice. ., . ~' is that choice the progress of choice. ., ., ,, ., choice. you will take the crown estate off _ choice. you will take the crown estate off the _ choice. you will take the crown estate off the king, _ choice. you will take the crown estate off the king, he - choice. you will take the crown estate off the king, he will- choice. you will take the crown estate off the king, he will put| choice. you will take the crown i estate off the king, he will put it into a sovereign wealth fund. why would that be any different to what happens at the moment? all of the money that comes from the crown estate in wales is funnelled through the treasury and re—dispersed in communities around the country. why would you need to put in a sovereign wealth fund?— wealth fund? wales is energy rich but our communities _ wealth fund? wales is energy rich but our communities are - wealth fund? wales is energy rich but our communities are for - wealth fund? wales is energy rich i but our communities are for poverty rates are growing we should be able to make energy cheaper for our communities because there is £853 million goes back to the treasury from wales, 12% of that goes to the king. actually, scotland has full control of their crown estate since 2016 and they are able to spend it in the way that they choose. we would like to be able to spend it so that we can support community energy projects. that we can reduce energy costs for people who are really struggling at the moment in terms of being able to heat their homes. so why would we give the money back when our communities desperately need it and we know that they would benefit? . . need it and we know that they would benefit? ,, . ., need it and we know that they would benefit? ., . ., , , ., ,, ., benefit? since we are speaking on ener: , it benefit? since we are speaking on energy. it is one _ benefit? since we are speaking on energy, it is one of— benefit? since we are speaking on energy, it is one of the _ benefit? since we are speaking on energy, it is one of the glaring - energy, it is one of the glaring things of the campaign that we have spoken little about, climate change, when the un would say is the biggest existential threat. it is when the un would say is the biggest existential threat.— existential threat. it is so important- _ existential threat. it is so important. but _ existential threat. it is so important. but at - existential threat. it is so important. but at this - existential threat. it is so - important. but at this election it is clear. — important. but at this election it is clear, the conservatives are toast~ — is clear, the conservatives are toast~ 14 — is clear, the conservatives are toast. ia use underinvestment in toast. 1a use underinvestment in public— toast. 1a use underinvestment in public services and completely ignored — public services and completely ignored to the climate crisis. and you have — ignored to the climate crisis. and you have the labour party. the}r ignored to the climate crisis. and you have the labour party. they have set net zero — you have the labour party. they have set net zero targets. _ you have the labour party. they have set net zero targets. our _ you have the labour party. they have set net zero targets. our climate - you have the labour party. they have set net zero targets. our climate is i set net zero targets. our climate is caettin set net zero targets. our climate is getting worse _ set net zero targets. our climate is getting worse and _ set net zero targets. our climate is getting worse and they _ set net zero targets. our climate is getting worse and they are - set net zero targets. our climate is getting worse and they are not - getting worse and they are not taking — getting worse and they are not taking the severity of needs. then the labour— taking the severity of needs. then the labour party who came up with £28 billion— the labour party who came up with £28 billion figure, not nearly enough _ £28 billion figure, not nearly enough to do the most basic measures. they have gone back from that _ measures. they have gone back from that every— measures. they have gone back from that. every single home important that. every single home important that needs it, it would reduce peoples — that needs it, it would reduce peoples bills, good for the energy crisis. _ peoples bills, good for the energy crisis, different the climate and it creates _ crisis, different the climate and it creates good greenjobs. trade unions — creates good greenjobs. trade unions and organisers that can be paid properly. there's a clear vision — paid properly. there's a clear vision for— paid properly. there's a clear vision for the green party for a real— vision for the green party for a real hope _ vision for the green party for a real hope and change which is around the climate _ real hope and change which is around the climate crisis, but also about defending — the climate crisis, but also about defending the nhs, cleaning up our rivers _ defending the nhs, cleaning up our rivers and _ defending the nhs, cleaning up our rivers and seas, making sure we are building _ rivers and seas, making sure we are building council house providing homes — building council house providing homes for people, protecting directors— homes for people, protecting directors —— protecting renters. labour— directors —— protecting renters. labour are _ directors —— protecting renters. labour are not going to do those things— labour are not going to do those things and — labour are not going to do those things and are missing an opposition at every— things and are missing an opposition at every moment and people are but it's vote _ at every moment and people are but it's vote green and i'm really proud. — it's vote green and i'm really proud, and finding ijust alberta for the — proud, and finding ijust alberta for the first time ever we are going to be _ for the first time ever we are going to be standing and everything was seen in _ to be standing and everything was seen in england and wales bar one seat from — seen in england and wales bar one seat from the conservatives. have the been seat from the conservatives. have they been vetted _ seat from the conservatives. have they been vetted properly? - seat from the conservatives. have they been vetted properly? yes. l seat from the conservatives. have l they been vetted properly? yes. we heard there — they been vetted properly? yes. we heard there is _ they been vetted properly? yes. we heard there is a _ they been vetted properly? yes. we heard there is a dossier _ they been vetted properly? yes. we heard there is a dossier of _ they been vetted properly? yes. we heard there is a dossier of 20 - they been vetted properly? yes. we heard there is a dossier of 20 of - heard there is a dossier of 20 of your— heard there is a dossier of 20 of your candidates who are standing circa leaning into somatic material? anti—semitism needs to be taken with intention— anti—semitism needs to be taken with intention and care and the green party— intention and care and the green party will— intention and care and the green party will never tolerate anti—semitism. party will never tolerate anti-semitism.- party will never tolerate anti-semitism. are those 20 candidates — anti-semitism. are those 20 candidates running _ anti-semitism. are those 20 candidates running or- anti-semitism. are those 20 candidates running or they i anti-semitism. are those 20 i candidates running or they out? anti-semitism. are those 20 - candidates running or they out? i'm a jewish candidates running or they out? i'm a jewish politician and one of over five people and prettiest leadership history— five people and prettiest leadership history that have run as a leader in british— history that have run as a leader in british politics —— british leadership. i think this seriously and offensive from the times this is not being _ and offensive from the times this is not being taken with the care he needs to — not being taken with the care he needs to. if people have been anti—semitic it has been right and they have — anti—semitic it has been right and they have been expended and expelled however _ they have been expended and expelled however i _ they have been expended and expelled however i am really proud of our party's _ however i am really proud of our party's position on gaza. calling from _ party's position on gaza. calling from his— party's position on gaza. calling from his historian from the beginning release of the hostages in the end _ beginning release of the hostages in the end of— beginning release of the hostages in the end of the arm sill to israel. some _ the end of the arm sill to israel. some of— the end of the arm sill to israel. some of the people have been accused of walking _ some of the people have been accused of walking with a palestinian during use alterity march —— solidarity march — use alterity march —— solidarity march. comparing solidarity with anti—semitism makes us it is serious that we _ anti—semitism makes us it is serious that we have — anti—semitism makes us it is serious that we have a conversation. anti-semitism makes us it is serious that we have a conversation.- that we have a conversation. would ou that we have a conversation. would you support — that we have a conversation. would you support the _ that we have a conversation. would you support the labour— that we have a conversation. would you support the labour policy - that we have a conversation. hriir you support the labour policy within their manifesto published next week which would give palestinian statehood before a peace process is finalised? i statehood before a peace process is finalised? ~ . statehood before a peace process is finalised? ~ , ., finalised? i think it is important palestinian _ finalised? i think it is important palestinian people _ finalised? i think it is important palestinian people have - finalised? i think it is important palestinian people have stated| finalised? i think it is important i palestinian people have stated but finalised? i think it is important - palestinian people have stated but i would _ palestinian people have stated but i would say _ palestinian people have stated but i would say from the labour party this is come _ would say from the labour party this is come way— would say from the labour party this is come way too late. in keir starmer— is come way too late. in keir starmer going on tv saying that israel— starmer going on tv saying that israel had — starmer going on tv saying that israel had the right to cut off water— israel had the right to cut off water and electricity to the palestinians. emily thornberry doubled — palestinians. emily thornberry doubled down a few days later. it is important _ doubled down a few days later. it is important that with these conversations we talk about peace building. — conversations we talk about peace building, about diplomacy and international solidarity. i'm proud that the _ international solidarity. i'm proud that the green party has taken place back _ that the green party has taken place back it's _ that the green party has taken place back it's is — that the green party has taken place back. it's is also important to say that we _ back. it's is also important to say that we need to challenge power and weatth— that we need to challenge power and wealth in— that we need to challenge power and wealth in this country. we want to put £50 _ wealth in this country. we want to put £50 billion into the nhs. withing _ put £50 billion into the nhs. withing adult social care should also be — withing adult social care should also be free. to do that we cannot 'ust also be free. to do that we cannot iust move — also be free. to do that we cannot just move small pots of money around — just move small pots of money around. we have to move big pots of money _ around. we have to move big pots of money so— around. we have to move big pots of money. so we implement sing a ball tax, money. so we implement sing a ball tax. a _ money. so we implement sing a ball tax. a t% _ money. so we implement sing a ball tax. a 1% tax — money. so we implement sing a ball tax, a 1% tax of people with assets over £10 _ tax, a 1% tax of people with assets over £10 million or more. that would raise _ over £10 million or more. that would raise around — over £10 million or more. that would raise around 50— £7 million to put in our— raise around 50— £7 million to put in our budget services. i'm not surprised — in our budget services. i'm not surprised at some of the powerful and wealthy like the times article coming _ and wealthy like the times article coming from the green party —— are coming _ coming from the green party —— are coming for— coming from the green party —— are coming for our party. we will be resolute — coming for our party. we will be resolute say no to anti—semitism but standing _ resolute say no to anti—semitism but standing against power and wealth trying _ standing against power and wealth trying to— standing against power and wealth trying to make our politics more top _ trying to make our politics more top a— trying to make our politics more to -. �* . ~ trying to make our politics more to . _ �* . ~' ., trying to make our politics more to, �* ., ., trying to make our politics more to. ., ., ., , top. a quick word on solidarity post u . top. a quick word on solidarity post u- ou top. a quick word on solidarity post up you withdrew— top. a quick word on solidarity post up you withdrew your _ top. a quick word on solidarity post up you withdrew your support - top. a quick word on solidarity post up you withdrew your support for i top. a quick word on solidarity postl up you withdrew your support for the first minister in wales, vaughn cathing, lost a vote and of no confidence of next week should he go? confidence of next week should he a o? , confidence of next week should he lo? , , ., ., ., ., confidence of next week should he go? yes. it should not have gone to this point- — go? yes. it should not have gone to this point- we _ go? yes. it should not have gone to this point. we have _ go? yes. it should not have gone to this point. we have said _ go? yes. it should not have gone to this point. we have said clearly - go? yes. it should not have gone to this point. we have said clearly for. this point. we have said clearly for a number of weeks not that he should have repaid the money and were apologised and then could've gone on with the job of delivering to the people of wales. unfortunately, he has not done so and it is with sadness that it came to the matter of having to place a vote of no—confidence. only the second seen in the history of the wash parliaments of the fact he is ignoring the will of the welsh parliament is significant. something i hope he is reflecting on. you can't reverse _ i hope he is reflecting on. you can't reverse it _ i hope he is reflecting on. you can't reverse it now— i hope he is reflecting on. you can't reverse it now can - to make sure that they are in a position to advocate for the next uk government of wales, and it's just fighting with labour. how will that deliver for the people of wales? brute deliver for the people of wales? we have to leave it there, thanks very much indeed, good to get the thoughts of two parties that don't get as much air time on national television, but they will tonight, 90 minutes of this debate starting in just over 12 minutes' time. 90 minutes of this debate starting injust over 12 minutes' time. let me show you around a little bit because the spin room is starting to fill up. you can see some journalists having their dinner, but most leaning over their computers starting to type out tomorrow's front pages in reaction to what we're seeing here in the debate. the person who will be fact checking it for us, and we will get plenty of that tonight because there'll be all sorts of facts coming out, is nick eardley. this is what he'll be doing. eardley. this is what he'll be doinr. ., , eardley. this is what he'll be doinr. ,, , doing. seven parties so there will be a lot but _ doing. seven parties so there will be a lot but the _ doing. seven parties so there will be a lot but the team to - doing. seven parties so there will be a lot but the team to fact - doing. seven parties so there will i be a lot but the team to fact check. the goal is to put some of the claims you here tonight in context. explain what you can trust in what you should perhaps be a bit sceptical about. you should perhaps be a bit scepticalabout. let you should perhaps be a bit sceptical about. let me remind you of some of the stuff we have heard this week. there have been controversial claims in the last few days. the conservatives have doubled down on this one we heard rishi sunak make a lot on tuesday. claiming a future labour government would put up household taxes by £2000. if you hear that tonight, remember the context. that figure on its own is misleading. some of the figures used to put this together are dubious. if you take the figure at face value, it is over four years, not one. if you hear it claimed that this is a treasury figure, bear in mind tonight that the top civil servant in the treasury clarified earlier this week that, well, it is not. the labour party have a pretty dubious claim of their own as well. this one. that their own as well. this one. that the conservatives would scrap national in—service opening up a whole of £a6 billion in the public finances. when you hear that, it is worth remembering the conservatives have said that this is a longer—term aspiration. it is not a party policy and the chancellor has insisted, this will not happen anytime soon, until the money is available. so if you hear these things tonight, just remember, be sceptical. some other things worth equipping yourself with when you are thinking about the arguments tonight. there's been a lot of talk recently about the cost of living. about whether people are better off now than they were when the conservatives came to power or it since the last general election. this is the picture when it comes to household disposable income. as you can see, since 2010, the conservatives taking over, it has gone up quite a lot. but it is an interesting picture since the last general election of 2019. you can see there is a big drop. largely because of the pandemic. the figure now, going into the general election is lower than it was in 2019. the living standards have gone down since last general election. that is not supposed to happen. it has not happened since these records started to be collected. so it will be interesting to hear what the parties say about that tonight and what their solution would be. what else? immigration may come up. the situation with small boats crossing the channel has been a big debate over the last few months. this is the crucial context that you need. the conservatives like to talk about this figure. 2023. the fact that small boats crossings came down a third between the period of 2022-2023. that is still the third between the period of 2022—2023. that is still the second highest on record. looking down here on this redline, that is what has happened so far this year. so far in 202a, small boats crossings are up, both on 2023 and the record year of 2022. we don't know for sure what is going to come up tonight. it is a big night for the seven parties. we will be here tonight with a team of fact checkers and plenty of other people going through the numbers and figuring out what we can and cannot trust. but the context there i think is going to be really important. there will be a lot of numbers in figuring out exactly what they mean and how to digest them. you are watching bbc news. i'm giving my colleague christian a short break in the spin room. welcome to the newsroom here in london. we are counting down until the start of the debate, not want to go now. around seven minutes or so where all talking stops and the debating begins. let me remind you of the format. mishal husain will be, this is the inside of the spin room, thejournalist be, this is the inside of the spin room, the journalist waiting standing by to file their copy for when the politicians start talking. as i mentioned, the format will be mishal husain, my colleague will be comparing, asking questions and attempting to keep order. who will she be trying to keep under control? seven people will be debating representing seven different parties. forthe representing seven different parties. for the conservatives, penny mordaunt, for labour, angela rayner, for the liberal democrats, it is daisy cooper, for the snp, scottish national party, stephen flynn. for reform uk, the new leader nigel farage, for plaid cymru, rhun ap iorwerth, and for the green party, carla denyer. some of those names, clearly may not be so familiar to viewers in different parts of the uk, if you are outside of wales, rhun ap iorwerth from plaid cymru may be a new one and if you are not in scotland, even flynn, snp leader, potentially, although you may well have seen him at pmqs. i can tell you now that all of those names will be standing by, getting ready, last—minute preparations and just in the last few minutes, before the debate gets under way. let's hand back to my colleague christian fraser and the spin room. hi. sorry to leave you for a short while. we've been through the health and safety rigmarole when you have so many people all in one room so that the welcomes have been given to all of the journalists who are here. let me show you first of all lots of television stations here tonight all giving immediate reaction to what they hear. gv news and sky are here. there is lisa nandy giving her response to one of the channels at the moment —— ged news. this is usually the bbc canteen so it has been completely re—rates for all of the journalists who are here. not all of them from the uk. i see some foreign journalists here as well tonight. here is nick from newsnight. newsnight will be here, are you excited? riff newsnight. newsnight will be here, are you excited?— are you excited? of course we are excited. are you excited? of course we are excited- a — are you excited? of course we are excited. a festival _ are you excited? of course we are excited. a festival of _ are you excited? of course we are excited. a festival of democracy, | are you excited? of course we arej excited. a festival of democracy, i hope you are as well. i excited. a festival of democracy, i hope you are as well.— excited. a festival of democracy, i hope you are as well. i certainly am and have already _ hope you are as well. i certainly am and have already bumped _ hope you are as well. i certainly am and have already bumped into one. hope you are as well. i certainly am | and have already bumped into one or politicians i've seen data dvds and a interview as well.— politicians i've seen data dvds and a interview as well. have you given them a hard _ a interview as well. have you given them a hard time? _ a interview as well. have you given them a hard time? he _ a interview as well. have you given them a hard time? he probably - a interview as well. have you given | them a hard time? he probably got a interview as well. have you given i them a hard time? he probably got a little harder. — them a hard time? he probably got a little harder, deeded, _ them a hard time? he probably got a little harder, deeded, more - them a hard time? he probably got a little harder, deeded, more than - little harder, deeded, more than leasing only because the story is around the prime minister of rishi sunak. you are one of the people who always has his ear to the ground as to what the party is saying, what are you hearing about the apologies? because it has been a general election, candidates are key to not undermine the campaign publicly but this is no great secret that this is not gone down well in the conservative party. not gone down well in the conservative pa . ., ., , ., conservative party. tonight, do you think it is about _ conservative party. tonight, do you think it is about penny _ conservative party. tonight, do you think it is about penny mordaunt, i think it is about penny mordaunt, onstage from her instinct would be to not defend him because she is a reservist and veteran herself an honorary commander in the navy forces and representing portsmouth constituency, at the same time, she has a 15,000 majority. i was going to say only a 15,000 but in the political times we are in, maybe that's not enough. so she somehow has to prop them up a bit. ih that's not enough. so she somehow has to prop them up a bit. in a sense that despite _ has to prop them up a bit. in a. sense that despite rishi sunak had to apologise. because if he had not apologise, it will be impossible to see how penny mordaunt could go on to that stage tonight the sub so he has apologised which has made her life somewhat easier, but i imagine penny mordaunt will not find this easy, and a because of her back on in the military, as you say, she is a portsmouth mp, navy and launch of dj she will find it very difficult and don't forget, who she is up against, nigel farage. he has been speaking in strong terms about this today. you can imagine the political pressure is going to want to put on penny mordaunt. just pressure is going to want to put on penny mordaunt.— penny mordaunt. just looking over our penny mordaunt. just looking over your shoulder. _ penny mordaunt. just looking over your shoulder. they _ penny mordaunt. just looking over your shoulder. they are _ penny mordaunt. just looking over your shoulder. they are already i penny mordaunt. just looking over your shoulder. they are already in | your shoulder. they are already in position. your shoulder. they are already in osition. ., ., �* ., your shoulder. they are already in osition. ., ., ., ,, position. you won't want to miss that debate- _ position. you won't want to miss that debate. we _ position. you won't want to miss that debate. we are _ position. you won't want to miss that debate. we are important, l position. you won't want to miss i that debate. we are important, not that debate. we are important, not that important. you that debate. we are important, not that important-— that important. you see mishal husain going — that important. you see mishal husain going through - that important. you see mishal husain going through her - that important. you see mishal| husain going through her paces there, all seven candidates lined up in front of her. we were told a short while ago that when she was advising candidates, head of debate night, she would always get them here earlier, she didn't want anyone to be rushed, to give them a bit of time to acclimatise to their surroundings. just as we move through here, you can see everybody�*s head down waiting for things to begin. so when it does start, of course the speakers will kick in in here, everyone will be follow it closely and then all hell will break loose, basically, after the debate because that is the moment when the spin room really does start to play a role. you will hear from all sorts of mps, contextualizing and putting their spin on what they have heard. here is aisha and layla. this is the sort of low before the storm because all hell breaks loose on the other side of the debate when everyone tries to put their band on it.— put their band on it. everyone has been friendly _ put their band on it. everyone has been friendly now, _ put their band on it. everyone has been friendly now, the _ put their band on it. everyone has. been friendly now, the headbutting will begin right after.— will begin right after. before eve one will begin right after. before everyone goes _ will begin right after. before everyone goes to _ will begin right after. before everyone goes to war. - will begin right after. before everyone goes to war. if- will begin right after. before everyone goes to war. if you will begin right after. before l everyone goes to war. if you it will begin right after. before - everyone goes to war. if you it is ruite everyone goes to war. if you it is quite collegiate, _ everyone goes to war. if you it is quite collegiate, a _ everyone goes to war. if you it is quite collegiate, a bit _ everyone goes to war. if you it is quite collegiate, a bit across - everyone goes to war. if you it is. quite collegiate, a bit across party action— quite collegiate, a bit across party action going on here, spinners crossing — action going on here, spinners crossing the divide.- action going on here, spinners crossing the divide. watching our colleaaue crossing the divide. watching our colleague mishal— crossing the divide. watching our colleague mishal husain - crossing the divide. watching our colleague mishal husain who - crossing the divide. watching our colleague mishal husain who has| crossing the divide. watching our - colleague mishal husain who hasjust colleague mishal husain who has just come in with the final touches to her makeup and it is a big night. for any broadcaster, particularly in a format like this. spare a thought. seven people, 90 minutes. not easy. trying to control everything and of course every party will be watching, saying, did one party get more time, was someone allowed to interrupt more, so she will be thinking scrupulously about how to be balanced and how to be fair so she has a really big job to do tonight. also the idea of having gained planned — also the idea of having gained planned it. she will love had her structure. — planned it. she will love had her structure, her preparations but also having _ structure, her preparations but also having to _ structure, her preparations but also having to be responsive to the turn of events _ having to be responsive to the turn of events in — having to be responsive to the turn of events in the course of the debate — of events in the course of the debate. so if something unexpected, 'ust debate. so if something unexpected, just to _ debate. so if something unexpected, just to be _ debate. so if something unexpected, just to be prepared for all eventualities. we just had a health and safety— eventualities. we just had a health and safety announcement in here for all of— and safety announcement in here for all of us _ and safety announcement in here for all of us but — and safety announcement in here for all of us but they are all of those considerations in there as well. one ofthe considerations in there as well. one of the directors _ considerations in there as well. que: of the directors said to considerations in there as well. iez of the directors said to me you never went on a night like this because as you say, you are 20 space not correctly or not giving someone enough leeway on a particular answer. ., , . , enough leeway on a particular answer. . ., answer. people get cross about it and feel like _ answer. people get cross about it and feel like their _ answer. people get cross about it and feel like their site _ answer. people get cross about it and feel like their site has - answer. people get cross about it and feel like their site has lost. and feel like their site has lost out. in terms of the unexpected moment, each one of those candidates particularly from smaller parties will want to have that unexpected moment. rememberthat will want to have that unexpected moment. remember that nick clegg breakthrough moment someone will be thinking there, tonight is my breakthrough moment is a smaller party leader this is my chance to really punch through in terms of the public consciousness. that is really hard to moderators as well because if someone has a game plan to try and disrupt things or be that disruptive force, that is hard as well. , ., , ., ., , disruptive force, that is hard as well. , ., , ., well. they need to be memorable come the need well. they need to be memorable come they need their — well. they need to be memorable come they need their appearance _ well. they need to be memorable come they need their appearance is _ well. they need to be memorable come they need their appearance is come - they need their appearance is come that there _ they need their appearance is come that there is such a short time for each party— that there is such a short time for each party to make their impact. we will each party to make their impact. will leave it each party to make their impact. 7 will leave it there. thank you for that and we will take you outside the building, outside new broadcasting house we are ten seconds away from the debate. seven parties on the stage. here is your host, mishal husain. they have the answers to the uk's future. welcome to the bbc election debate. applause good evening to all of you watching — and to our live audience here in the bbc radio theatre at broadcasting house in london. with less than four weeks to polling day, the parties with us tonight are here because of their performance in recent elections and their standing in opinion polls. the invitation was for leaders or leading figures to

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