penning newspaper columns and presenting the podcast rock and roll politics. maria margaronis is a journalist, who's written and presented a number of radio documentaries on the crises man—made and natural which have afflicted greece. ashis ray has half a century of explaining events here to his readers in india. a fulltime occupation in itself, you might think, but he's still found time to commentate on his beloved cricket. lovely to have you all new the studio. all together as well. so thank you for being with us. borisjohnson street, according to a ukrainian mp, could soon be found on maps for odesa, as it expunges the memorialisation of famous russians. assuming the british prime minister's visit to india this week is followed in due course by a free trade deal — something neither the european union nor the united states has pulled off — there'll probably be a thoroughfare named in his honour in mumbai, too. in this country, borisjohnson way might be a cul—de—sac. such is the growing contrast between mrjohnson�*s global reputation and his domestic one. despite championing the cause of ukraine in europe, there's been no finger waggling in his meeting with narendra modi for the indian prime minister's support for russia. modi, johnson, putin — populist leaders in the ascendant. by the end of this weekend, we'll know whether or not that holds true for france, too. steve, let us begin with boris johnson at home, however much he would rather we weren't concentrating on that, what has changed this workers and how potentially troublesome is that for mrjohnson? the potentially troublesome is that for mrjohnson?_ potentially troublesome is that for mrjohnson? ., ., mrjohnson? the mood of conservative mps they are — mrjohnson? the mood of conservative mps they are the _ mrjohnson? the mood of conservative mps they are the ones _ mrjohnson? the mood of conservative mps they are the ones with _ mrjohnson? the mood of conservative mps they are the ones with agency, - mps they are the ones with agency, everyone else can express opinions about him, they are the ones with the power to remove him and something moved on thursday, when the whips couldn't discipline them all, to vote against what labour was trying to do, which is o start an investigation, fairly soon, by one of the parliamentary select committees and the reason that is significant is we talk about what a conservative mp going to do, as if they were a collective all of the same mind, all of similar experience, actually tonnes of them are pretty new to national politics having got in in december 2019. a lot of the time when people say conservative mp also do this, they don't know, they aren't sure what to do, and they are still in that kind of mood, but, when you have kind of made something of a move to signal distance with the prime minister, that empowers you to do it again, so that empowers you to do it again, so thatis that empowers you to do it again, so that is one of the things that has changed. and the other is itjust feels as if this crisis for him is just not going to end, there is a corrosive quality to it, it has always been deadly serious to face an allegation of making rules, breaking them and lying about doing so, but there was a sense, sometimes it was going to fade but it hasn't. so the combination of the two, i think are significant. i so the combination of the two, i think are significant.— think are significant. i am struck on friday. _ think are significant. i am struck on friday, listening _ think are significant. i am struck on friday, listening to _ think are significant. i am struck on friday, listening to lord - on friday, listening to lord hayward, a former conservative mp who has been round since the 80 who was recalling the mood change when he was a young mp for margaret thatcher in that last year, before... i thatcher in that last year, before- - -_ thatcher in that last year, before... thatcher in that last year, - before..._ but thatcher in that last year, before... . ., ., ., but he before... i heard that too. but he said something _ before... i heard that too. but he said something interesting, - before... i heard that too. but he said something interesting, he i before... i heard that too. but he l said something interesting, he said last weekend, easter weekend as it was, in much of the, much of the country, much of the continent, he said he was reflecting the prime minister was probably all right for now, and his mood had changed in the space of less than a week because he had been talking to conservative mps. what do you any is the problem here for borisjohnson? is itjust he, you know, it keeps coming back at him? ., , ., , , at him? people are 'ust fed up with this, i at him? people are 'ust fed up with this. i mean _ at him? people are 'ust fed up with this, i mean that, — at him? people are 'ust fed up with this, i mean that, i— at him? people are just fed up with this, i mean that, i am _ at him? people are just fed up with this, i mean that, i am fed - at him? people are just fed up with this, i mean that, i am fed up - at him? people are just fed up with this, i mean that, i am fed up with | this, i mean that, i am fed up with it. we, _ this, i mean that, i am fed up with it we. i_ this, i mean that, i am fed up with it we. i dont— this, i mean that, i am fed up with it. we, i don't want to talk about this any— it. we, i don't want to talk about this any more, the thing that puzzles — this any more, the thing that puzzles me, this is a man who has been _ puzzles me, this is a man who has been known — puzzles me, this is a man who has been known to lie all his life, i think_ been known to lie all his life, i think it — been known to lie all his life, i think it was either his headmaster or house — think it was either his headmaster or house master at eton who wrote boris _ or house master at eton who wrote boris doesn't seem to his the rules apply— boris doesn't seem to his the rules apply to _ boris doesn't seem to his the rules apply to him. look at the brexit campaign, _ apply to him. look at the brexit campaign, the thing there is going to he _ campaign, the thing there is going to he no— campaign, the thing there is going to be no border between northern ireland _ to be no border between northern ireland and the rest of the uk, it is endless — ireland and the rest of the uk, it is endless the lies are endless and look at — is endless the lies are endless and look at... �* , is endless the lies are endless and lookat... �* , ., �* ., look at... but they haven't mattered apparently- — look at. .. but they haven't mattered apparently- look— look at... but they haven't mattered apparently. look at _ look at... but they haven't mattered apparently. look at the _ look at... but they haven't mattered apparently. look at the policy - apparently. look at the policy problems. — apparently. look at the policy problems, look— apparently. look at the policy problems, look what - apparently. look at the policy. problems, look what happened apparently. look at the policy - problems, look what happened during the pandemic. underneath the lies is a great _ the pandemic. underneath the lies is a great mountain of incompetence, and had _ a great mountain of incompetence, and bad administration and bad government. now i see why lying particularly matters, at the moment when _ particularly matters, at the moment when we _ particularly matters, at the moment when we have so many lies in international politics, when we have, _ international politics, when we have, you _ international politics, when we have, you know, putin's lies about what _ have, you know, putin's lies about what is _ have, you know, putin's lies about what is going on in ukraine. it is not an invasion _ what is going on in ukraine. it is not an invasion we _ what is going on in ukraine. it 3 not an invasion we are acting to defend ourselves. lies not an invasion we are acting to defend ourselves.— not an invasion we are acting to defend ourselves. lies matter, lies to the house _ defend ourselves. lies matter, lies to the house of— defend ourselves. lies matter, lies to the house of commons - defend ourselves. lies matter, lies to the house of commons matter, | to the house of commons matter, breaking _ to the house of commons matter, breaking your own rules matter, but it is to _ breaking your own rules matter, but it is to me _ breaking your own rules matter, but it is to me it — breaking your own rules matter, but it is to me it is like this is the sort — it is to me it is like this is the sort of— it is to me it is like this is the sort of cherry on the cake of a lot else that — sort of cherry on the cake of a lot else that has gone badly wrong. how was he received _ else that has gone badly wrong. firm? was he received in else that has gone badly wrong. finns" was he received in india, this else that has gone badly wrong. firm? was he received in india, this visit had been delayed because of covid but there had been a sense it was one that the indian government was keen on, just, as the british government was, and that perhaps he was a more attractive figure to many in india, certainly to the prime minister, than his predecessor theresa may, who went to india but whose visit was a bit of a flop really. whose visit was a bit of a flop reall . ~ ., , ., , whose visit was a bit of a flop reall.~ ., , ., , , really. well, over the years, boris has been a _ really. well, over the years, boris has been a popular _ really. well, over the years, boris has been a popular figure - really. well, over the years, boris has been a popular figure in - really. well, over the years, boris| has been a popular figure in india, his dishevelled _ has been a popular figure in india, his dishevelled hair— has been a popular figure in india, his dishevelled hair and _ has been a popular figure in india, his dishevelled hair and his- has been a popular figure in india, his dishevelled hair and hisjokes,| his dishevelled hair and hisjokes, tended _ his dishevelled hair and hisjokes, tended to — his dishevelled hair and hisjokes, tended to go _ his dishevelled hair and hisjokes, tended to go down _ his dishevelled hair and hisjokes, tended to go down well, - his dishevelled hair and hisjokes, tended to go down well, so - his dishevelled hair and hisjokes, tended to go down well, so to - his dishevelled hair and hisjokes, i tended to go down well, so to that extent, _ tended to go down well, so to that extent, i_ tended to go down well, so to that extent, i think, _ tended to go down well, so to that extent, i think, he _ tended to go down well, so to that extent, ithink, he is— tended to go down well, so to that extent, i think, he is not _ tended to go down well, so to that extent, i think, he is not an- extent, i think, he is not an unpopuiar_ extent, i think, he is not an unpopular figure _ extent, i think, he is not an unpopular figure in- extent, i think, he is not an unpopular figure in india, . extent, i think, he is not an. unpopular figure in india, they don't — unpopular figure in india, they don't care _ unpopular figure in india, they don't care much— unpopular figure in india, they don't care much about - unpopular figure in india, they don't care much about what i unpopular figure in india, they don't care much about what is| unpopularfigure in india, they- don't care much about what is going on in _ don't care much about what is going on in this— don't care much about what is going on in this country, _ don't care much about what is going on in this country, so, _ don't care much about what is going on in this country, so, he _ don't care much about what is going on in this country, so, he was- don't care much about what is going on in this country, so, he was well. on in this country, so, he was well received. — on in this country, so, he was well received. but _ on in this country, so, he was well received, but unfortunately, - on in this country, so, he was well received, but unfortunately, for. received, but unfortunately, for him. _ received, but unfortunately, for him. if— received, but unfortunately, for him. if the _ received, but unfortunately, for him, if the timing _ received, but unfortunately, for him, if the timing of— received, but unfortunately, for him, if the timing of the - received, but unfortunately, for him, if the timing of the visit i received, but unfortunately, for. him, if the timing of the visit was meant _ him, if the timing of the visit was meant to— him, if the timing of the visit was meant to divert _ him, if the timing of the visit was meant to divert attention - him, if the timing of the visit was meant to divert attention from i him, if the timing of the visit was i meant to divert attention from what was going _ meant to divert attention from what was going on— meant to divert attention from what was going on in— meant to divert attention from what was going on in westminster, - meant to divert attention from what was going on in westminster, it- meant to divert attention from what was going on in westminster, it hasj was going on in westminster, it has failed _ was going on in westminster, it has failed spectacularly, _ was going on in westminster, it has failed spectacularly, and, _ failed spectacularly, and, certainiy. _ failed spectacularly, and, certainly, the _ failed spectacularly, and, certainly, the coverage i failed spectacularly, and, . certainly, the coverage that failed spectacularly, and, - certainly, the coverage that has come _ certainly, the coverage that has come out — certainly, the coverage that has come out in _ certainly, the coverage that has come out in the _ certainly, the coverage that has come out in the last— certainly, the coverage that has come out in the last two - certainly, the coverage that has come out in the last two days . certainly, the coverage that has i come out in the last two days have overshadowed _ come out in the last two days have overshadowed his— come out in the last two days have overshadowed his claims _ come out in the last two days have overshadowed his claims about. come out in the last two days have . overshadowed his claims about trade and defence — overshadowed his claims about trade and defence and _ overshadowed his claims about trade and defence and the _ overshadowed his claims about trade and defence and the rest _ overshadowed his claims about trade and defence and the rest of- overshadowed his claims about trade and defence and the rest of it, - and defence and the rest of it, certainly— and defence and the rest of it, certainly on _ and defence and the rest of it, certainly on day _ and defence and the rest of it, certainly on day one, - and defence and the rest of it, certainly on day one, it - and defence and the rest of it, certainly on day one, it was i certainly on day one, it was completely— certainly on day one, it was completely about _ certainly on day one, it was completely about the - certainly on day one, it was. completely about the debate certainly on day one, it was - completely about the debate at westminster _ completely about the debate at westminster.— completely about the debate at westminster. ~ . .,~ , westminster. which was taking place that da on westminster. which was taking place that day on the _ westminster. which was taking place that day on the first _ westminster. which was taking place that day on the first day _ westminster. which was taking place that day on the first day of _ westminster. which was taking place that day on the first day of the - that day on the first day of the visit to india.— that day on the first day of the visit to india. ., . ., .,. visit to india. correct and the fact that the motion _ visit to india. correct and the fact that the motion was _ visit to india. correct and the fact that the motion was passed - visit to india. correct and the fact that the motion was passed and i visit to india. correct and the fact i that the motion was passed and he has been _ that the motion was passed and he has been referred _ that the motion was passed and he has been referred to _ that the motion was passed and he has been referred to the _ that the motion was passed and he has been referred to the privilegesj has been referred to the privileges committee — has been referred to the privileges committee it— has been referred to the privileges committee it is— has been referred to the privileges committee it is bad _ has been referred to the privileges committee it is bad news, - has been referred to the privileges committee it is bad news, but- has been referred to the privileges committee it is bad news, but in. committee it is bad news, but in india. _ committee it is bad news, but in india. i— committee it is bad news, but in india. ithink. _ committee it is bad news, but in india, i think, the _ committee it is bad news, but in india, i think, the little - committee it is bad news, but in india, i think, the little saving. india, i think, the little saving grace — india, i think, the little saving grace his— india, i think, the little saving grace his might _ india, i think, the little saving grace his might have - india, i think, the little saving grace his might have had - india, i think, the little saving grace his might have had on. india, i think, the little saving . grace his might have had on day india, i think, the little saving - grace his might have had on day two, ithink— grace his might have had on day two, i think that _ grace his might have had on day two, i think that too — grace his might have had on day two, i think that too was _ grace his might have had on day two, i think that too was dogged _ grace his might have had on day two, i think that too was dogged by - i think that too was dogged by questions _ i think that too was dogged by questions regarding _ i think that too was dogged by questions regarding what - i think that too was dogged by questions regarding what wasl i think that too was dogged by - questions regarding what was going on back— questions regarding what was going on back home. _ questions regarding what was going on back home, and _ questions regarding what was going on back home, and as— questions regarding what was going on back home, and as much- questions regarding what was going on back home, and as much as - questions regarding what was going on back home, and as much as he i on back home, and as much as he tried _ on back home, and as much as he tried to _ on back home, and as much as he tried to deflect _ on back home, and as much as he tried to deflect it _ on back home, and as much as he tried to deflect it by— on back home, and as much as he tried to deflect it by talking - on back home, and as much as he tried to deflect it by talking about| tried to deflect it by talking about other— tried to deflect it by talking about other things. _ tried to deflect it by talking about other things, and _ tried to deflect it by talking about other things, and the _ tried to deflect it by talking about other things, and the brighter- tried to deflect it by talking about| other things, and the brighter side and so _ other things, and the brighter side and so on. — other things, and the brighter side and so on. but— other things, and the brighter side and so on, but i _ other things, and the brighter side and so on, but i think— other things, and the brighter side and so on, but i think at— other things, and the brighter side and so on, but i think at the - other things, and the brighter side and so on, but i think at the end . other things, and the brighter side| and so on, but i think at the end of the day, _ and so on, but i think at the end of the day, this— and so on, but i think at the end of the day, this tended _ and so on, but i think at the end of the day, this tended to— and so on, but i think at the end of the day, this tended to be - and so on, but i think at the end of the day, this tended to be the - the day, this tended to be the questions _ the day, this tended to be the questions which _ the day, this tended to be the questions which were - the day, this tended to be the questions which were put - the day, this tended to be the questions which were put to l the day, this tended to be the . questions which were put to him the day, this tended to be the - questions which were put to him at the press _ questions which were put to him at the press conference _ questions which were put to him at the press conference for— questions which were put to him at the press conference for instance. i the press conference for instance. steve. _ the press conference for instance. steve. we — the press conference for instance. steve. we are _ the press conference for instance. steve. we are at _ the press conference for instance. steve, we are at a _ the press conference for instance. steve, we are at a strange - the press conference for instance. steve, we are at a strange stage, | steve, we are at a strange stage, the police have said there will be no further announcements about fines over lockdown parties, before the local elections for they have gone into their own version of purdah because they don't want to be accuse odd of influencing the elections, they are two weeks away, come the friday after polling day, what will be the kind of calculation do you think the conservative mp may be making? think the conservative mp may be makin: ? ., , , ., making? two things, before then, i have spoken _ making? two things, before then, i have spoken to _ making? two things, before then, i have spoken to some _ making? two things, before then, i have spoken to some who - making? two things, before then, i have spoken to some who have - making? two things, before then, i j have spoken to some who have said that although they have big doubts ant him there is no way they will speak during this campaign, because all their local party activists are outcome paining and they don't want to have quotes plastered over labour posters about their views of boris johnson, so we are at a strange phase. some are speaking out already, and surprisingly loudly, that has haye to go. if the elections go really badly for the conservatives, normally, a prime minister can brush that off as midterm results, but because of this context, it will be explosive, and there is quite a pivotal by—election coming up later on in the summer so there are electoral test, but, i think in a way, it has got that, when you say why is it carrying on? it is the nature of thele investigation, it might have been round since december, but it is, you can't get a bigger allegation, now he has always insisted he didn't think there were parties and the rest of it but the police seem to be taking a different view, given the number of penalty notices that have gone out. there is this independent great, not independent, commission by boris johnson, gray report to come, and i think that is his problem, that the nature of what he is alleged to have done during these lockdowns, and thatis done during these lockdowns, and that is the problem where voters as well, you know. that is the problem where voters as well. you know— well, you know. isn't it really about the _ well, you know. isn't it really about the arrogance, - well, you know. isn't it really about the arrogance, about l well, you know. isn't it really - about the arrogance, about people's realisation _ about the arrogance, about people's realisation of the arrogance of this prime _ realisation of the arrogance of this prime minister, people whose relatives— prime minister, people whose relatives died who couldn't be with their relatives who couldn't go to see their— their relatives who couldn't go to see their dying mother and father, everyone _ see their dying mother and father, everyone who lost someone and kept the rules— everyone who lost someone and kept the rules is— everyone who lost someone and kept the rules is disgusted by this. | the rules is disgusted by this. don't the rules is disgusted by this. i don't think arrogance is the right word. there is a thoughtlessness, most prime ministers are neurotic about every move they make, if i do this, what will happen? he doesn't tend to pose those questions, so, a theresa may or a gordon brown having drinks at a works do, they would be, you know, is this, is that party, is it a work do? could it be seen as party? i don't think he goes through those thought processes. but party? i don't think he goes through those thought processes.— those thought processes. but why? why doesn't — those thought processes. but why? why doesn't he? — those thought processes. but why? why doesn't he? good _ those thought processes. but why? why doesn't he? good question. i those thought processes. but why? i why doesn't he? good question. what i would sa why doesn't he? good question. what i would say is — why doesn't he? good question. what i would say is he _ why doesn't he? good question. what i would say is he was _ why doesn't he? good question. what i would say is he was certainly - why doesn't he? good question. what i would say is he was certainly in - i would say is he was certainly in trouble — i would say is he was certainly in trouble in — i would say is he was certainly in trouble in february, _ i would say is he was certainly in trouble in february, and - i would say is he was certainly in trouble in february, and then. i would say is he was certainly in i trouble in february, and then came the russian — trouble in february, and then came the russian invasion, _ trouble in february, and then came the russian invasion, and - trouble in february, and then came the russian invasion, and that - the russian invasion, and that seemed — the russian invasion, and that seemed to _ the russian invasion, and that seemed to give _ the russian invasion, and that seemed to give him _ the russian invasion, and that seemed to give him a - the russian invasion, and that seemed to give him a little . the russian invasion, and that seemed to give him a little bit the russian invasion, and that. seemed to give him a little bit of the russian invasion, and that - seemed to give him a little bit of a lease _ seemed to give him a little bit of a lease of— seemed to give him a little bit of a lease of life. — seemed to give him a little bit of a lease of life, and _ seemed to give him a little bit of a lease of life, and you _ seemed to give him a little bit of a lease of life, and you constantly i lease of life, and you constantly heard _ lease of life, and you constantly heard conservative _ lease of life, and you constantly heard conservative politicians . heard conservative politicians saying — heard conservative politicians saying this _ heard conservative politicians saying this is _ heard conservative politicians saying this is not _ heard conservative politicians saying this is not the - heard conservative politicians saying this is not the time - heard conservative politicians saying this is not the time toi heard conservative politicians - saying this is not the time to oust him. _ saying this is not the time to oust him. but — saying this is not the time to oust him. but what _ saying this is not the time to oust him, but what has _ saying this is not the time to oust him, but what has happened - saying this is not the time to oust him, but what has happened in. saying this is not the time to oustl him, but what has happened in the last week— him, but what has happened in the last week i — him, but what has happened in the last week i think— him, but what has happened in the last week i think is— him, but what has happened in the last week i think is a _ him, but what has happened in the last week i think is a change - him, but what has happened in the last week i think is a change of- last week i think is a change of mood — last week i think is a change of mood i— last week i think is a change of mood. i entirely— last week i think is a change of mood. i entirely agree - last week i think is a change of mood. i entirely agree with. last week i think is a change of. mood. i entirely agree with what steve _ mood. i entirely agree with what steve has — mood. i entirely agree with what steve has said. _ mood. i entirely agree with what steve has said.— steve has said. that argument doesnt steve has said. that argument doesn't really _ steve has said. that argument doesn't really stack _ steve has said. that argument doesn't really stack up, - steve has said. that argument doesn't really stack up, lloyd l doesn't really stack up, lloyd george replaced asquith, churchill replaced and margaret thatcher was replaced and margaret thatcher was replaced byjohn major during the first gulf war. modi's relationship with putin. first of all how important is that relationship for india, i mean i understand it is a historical association, the nonaligned movement and poking the united states in the eye which was popular do in the 50s and 60s, but now? . popular do in the 50s and 60s, but now? , ., ., ., ., , �* now? first of all india hasn't sopported — now? first of all india hasn't supported russia _ now? first of all india hasn't supported russia on - now? first of all india hasn't supported russia on this - now? first of all india hasn't - supported russia on this invasion, so, supported russia on this invasion, so. india _ supported russia on this invasion, so. india has— supported russia on this invasion, so, india has been— supported russia on this invasion, so, india has been neutral. - supported russia on this invasion, so, india has been neutral. the i so, india has been neutral. the interesting _ so, india has been neutral. the interesting thing _ so, india has been neutral. the interesting thing is _ so, india has been neutral. the interesting thing is modi - so, india has been neutral. the interesting thing is modi has i so, india has been neutral. the i interesting thing is modi has done so, india has been neutral. the - interesting thing is modi has done a sort of— interesting thing is modi has done a sort of half— interesting thing is modi has done a sort of half somersault, _ interesting thing is modi has done a sort of half somersault, for- interesting thing is modi has done a sort of half somersault, for the - sort of half somersault, for the simple — sort of half somersault, for the simple reason _ sort of half somersault, for the simple reason that _ sort of half somersault, for the simple reason that indian - sort of half somersault, for the l simple reason that indian foreign policy. _ simple reason that indian foreign policy. from _ simple reason that indian foreign policy, from 1991, _ simple reason that indian foreign policy, from 1991, on _ simple reason that indian foreign policy, from 1991, on wards, - simple reason that indian foreign policy, from 1991, on wards, was| policy, from 1991, on wards, was multi—alignment, _ policy, from1991, on wards, was multi—alignment, because- policy, from 1991, on wards, was multi—alignment, because the i policy, from 1991, on wards, was. multi—alignment, because the cold war ended — multi—alignment, because the cold war ended and _ multi—alignment, because the cold war ended and india _ multi—alignment, because the cold war ended and india reached - multi—alignment, because the cold war ended and india reached out. multi—alignment, because the cold| war ended and india reached out to the west. _ war ended and india reached out to the west. and — war ended and india reached out to the west, and the _ war ended and india reached out to the west, and the west _ war ended and india reached out to the west, and the west responded, | war ended and india reached out to l the west, and the west responded, so it became _ the west, and the west responded, so it became mull— the west, and the west responded, so it became mull alignment _ the west, and the west responded, so it became mull alignment but - the west, and the west responded, so it became mull alignment but what i it became mull alignment but what modi did. _ it became mull alignment but what modi did. when— it became mull alignment but what modi did, when he _ it became mull alignment but what modi did, when he came _ it became mull alignment but what modi did, when he came to- it became mull alignment but what modi did, when he came to powerl it became mull alignment but what l modi did, when he came to power he tilted _ modi did, when he came to power he tilted towards — modi did, when he came to power he tilted towards the _ modi did, when he came to power he tilted towards the united _ modi did, when he came to power he tilted towards the united states, - modi did, when he came to power he tilted towards the united states, sol tilted towards the united states, so from that— tilted towards the united states, so from that position, _ tilted towards the united states, so from that position, i— tilted towards the united states, so from that position, i think— tilted towards the united states, so from that position, i think it - from that position, i think it became _ from that position, i think it became a _ from that position, i think it became a little _ from that position, i think it became a little awkward - from that position, i think it became a little awkward for| from that position, i think it - became a little awkward for the simple — became a little awkward for the simple reason _ became a little awkward for the simple reason that _ became a little awkward for the simple reason that people - became a little awkward for the simple reason that people in i became a little awkward for the | simple reason that people in the simple reason that people in the west— simple reason that people in the west started _ simple reason that people in the west started asking, _ simple reason that people in the west started asking, but - simple reason that people in the west started asking, but we - simple reason that people in the - west started asking, but we thought that you _ west started asking, but we thought that you were — west started asking, but we thought that you were with _ west started asking, but we thought that you were with us, _ west started asking, but we thought that you were with us, now. - west started asking, but we thought that you were with us, now. but - that you were with us, now. but india _ that you were with us, now. but india has— that you were with us, now. but india has this _ that you were with us, now. but india has this disadvantage - that you were with us, now. but india has this disadvantage if. that you were with us, now. butl india has this disadvantage if you like. _ india has this disadvantage if you like. of— india has this disadvantage if you like, of dependence _ india has this disadvantage if you like, of dependence on _ india has this disadvantage if you like, of dependence on russia i india has this disadvantage if you like, of dependence on russia in| like, of dependence on russia in terms _ like, of dependence on russia in terms of— like, of dependence on russia in terms of defence. _ like, of dependence on russia in terms of defence. 50% - like, of dependence on russia in terms of defence. 50% of- like, of dependence on russia in terms of defence. 50% of india's defence — terms of defence. 50% of india's defence imports _ terms of defence. 50% of india's defence imports come _ terms of defence. 50% of india's defence imports come from - terms of defence. 50% of india's i defence imports come from russia. then over— defence imports come from russia. then over the — defence imports come from russia. then over the years, _ defence imports come from russia. then over the years, when- defence imports come from russia. then over the years, when it - defence imports come from russia. then over the years, when it has i then over the years, when it has come _ then over the years, when it has come to— then over the years, when it has come to tricky— then over the years, when it has come to tricky situations - then over the years, when it has come to tricky situations for - then over the years, when it has i come to tricky situations for india, at international— come to tricky situations for india, at international forums— come to tricky situations for india, at international forums at - come to tricky situations for india, at international forums at the - at international forums at the united — at international forums at the united nations, _ at international forums at the united nations, at— at international forums at the united nations, at the - at international forums at the united nations, at the un - at international forums at the - united nations, at the un security council— united nations, at the un security council russia _ united nations, at the un security council russia has _ united nations, at the un security council russia has saved _ united nations, at the un security council russia has saved india. - united nations, at the un security. council russia has saved india. that is a very interesting _ council russia has saved india. is a very interesting perspective on that relationship, isn't it. maria. from prime minister modi makes this announcement during an interview or he says i want an immediate ceasefire which is a slight toughening of the position, given they have had a position of neutrality on the invasion, that kind of took a bit of pressure, i guess off borisjohnson because people were saying shouldn't you have been out there, may be not wagging finger publicly but quietly pressing behind the scenes and saying come on, we need you to use your influence on the russians. i imagine one of the things boris johnson — imagine one of the things boris johnson has been saying and as part of this— johnson has been saying and as part of this trumpeted trade deal is he should _ of this trumpeted trade deal is he should be — of this trumpeted trade deal is he should be buying arms from britain instead _ should be buying arms from britain instead of— should be buying arms from britain instead of india because britain has a large _ instead of india because britain has a large arms industry, so that is part— a large arms industry, so that is part of— a large arms industry, so that is part of it — a large arms industry, so that is part of it i_ a large arms industry, so that is part of it. i wonder how much modi has been _ part of it. i wonder how much modi has been kind of, you know, getting a boost _ has been kind of, you know, getting a boost from boris's arrival. i saw the big _ a boost from boris's arrival. i saw the big posters up on the street saying _ the big posters up on the street saying welcome borisjohnson, and, you know. _ saying welcome borisjohnson, and, you know, there is all sorts of problems— you know, there is all sorts of problems at home in india and the fact the _ problems at home in india and the fact the other issue for boris johnson. _ fact the other issue for boris johnson, is he going to say anything about— johnson, is he going to say anything about the _ johnson, is he going to say anything about the bjp and muslim community. we talked _ about the bjp and muslim community. we talked last time about christians.— we talked last time about christians. . . ~ we talked last time about christians. , , ,, christians. yes, but i think he said nothinu. christians. yes, but i think he said nothing. nothing. _ christians. yes, but i think he said nothing. nothing. there _ christians. yes, but i think he said nothing. nothing. there is- christians. yes, but i think he said nothing. nothing. there is a - nothing. nothing. there is a reference — nothing. nothing. there is a reference where _ nothing. nothing. there is a reference where boris - nothing. nothing. there is a reference where boris said . nothing. nothing. there is a | reference where boris said in nothing. nothing. there is a - reference where boris said in india has constitutional— reference where boris said in india has constitutional safeguards, - reference where boris said in india has constitutional safeguards, on. has constitutional safeguards, on these _ has constitutional safeguards, on these matter. _ has constitutional safeguards, on these matter, because _ has constitutional safeguards, on these matter, because he - has constitutional safeguards, on these matter, because he was i has constitutional safeguards, on . these matter, because he was asked has constitutional safeguards, on - these matter, because he was asked a question— these matter, because he was asked a question at— these matter, because he was asked a question at the — these matter, because he was asked a question at the press _ these matter, because he was asked a question at the press conference, - these matter, because he was asked a question at the press conference, by l question at the press conference, by the way, _ question at the press conference, by the way, modi — question at the press conference, by the way, modi doesn't _ question at the press conference, by the way, modi doesn't do _ question at the press conference, by the way, modi doesn't do press - the way, modi doesn't do press conferences. _ the way, modi doesn't do press conferences, so _ the way, modi doesn't do press conferences,— conferences, so this is really unusual- _ conferences, so this is really unusual. ge _ conferences, so this is really unusual. ge yes, _ conferences, so this is really unusual. ge yes, so - conferences, so this is really unusual. ge yes, so they - conferences, so this is really - unusual. ge yes, so they hadded the two statementsing with made by the two statementsing with made by the two leader, they walked away and separately, from what i could make out, perhaps at the residence of the british high commissioner, boris held a press conference where he took question, so he did say that india has safeguards but that is a very soft thing to say, given the current circumstances. let me ask you i am interesting in terms of —— interested in terms of what you were saying, both saying about weapons actually and this question of 0k, we have a big arms business in the uk, borisjohnson is part of any prime minister's foreign travels is promotion of business interests on the part of their country, we have this tie up with australia and the united states, we have india as part of the quad with united states and again, with other countries in that region, is it possible that india would be interested in this new alignment with the australians, with the british? i alignment with the australians, with the british? ~ . alignment with the australians, with the british? ,, , ., .. , the british? i think it is accuse uuart for the british? i think it is accuse quart for quad. _ the british? i think it is accuse quart for quad, because -- - the british? i think it is accuse - quart for quad, because -- awkward quart for quad, because —— awkward for quad. it quart for quad, because -- awkward for auad. . . quart for quad, because -- awkward for auad. _, , ., �* for quad. it is a competitor. but there is scope — for quad. it is a competitor. but there is scope of— for quad. it is a competitor. but there is scope of british - for quad. it is a competitor. but there is scope of british exports defence — there is scope of british exports defence exports _ there is scope of british exports defence exports to _ there is scope of british exports defence exports to india. - there is scope of british exports defence exports to india. there| there is scope of british exports - defence exports to india. there has been _ defence exports to india. there has been a _ defence exports to india. there has been a steady— defence exports to india. there has been a steady stream _ defence exports to india. there has been a steady stream but _ defence exports to india. there has been a steady stream but not - defence exports to india. there has been a steady stream but not very. been a steady stream but not very significant — been a steady stream but not very significant in — been a steady stream but not very significant in recent— been a steady stream but not very significant in recent years, - been a steady stream but not very significant in recent years, britain| significant in recent years, britain lost out _ significant in recent years, britain lost out majorly— significant in recent years, britain lost out majorly on _ significant in recent years, britain lost out majorly on the _ significant in recent years, britain lost out majorly on the combat i lost out majorly on the combat aircraft — lost out majorly on the combat aircraft deal, _ lost out majorly on the combat aircraft deal, which _ lost out majorly on the combat aircraft deal, which went - lost out majorly on the combat aircraft deal, which went to - lost out majorly on the combat| aircraft deal, which went to the french. — aircraft deal, which went to the french. but— aircraft deal, which went to the french, but that _ aircraft deal, which went to the french, but that is _ aircraft deal, which went to the french, but that is now- aircraft deal, which went to the french, but that is now mired i aircraft deal, which went to the i french, but that is now mired in aircraft deal, which went to the . french, but that is now mired in a little _ french, but that is now mired in a little bit _ french, but that is now mired in a little bit of— french, but that is now mired in a little bit of controversy, _ french, but that is now mired in a little bit of controversy, for- french, but that is now mired in a little bit of controversy, for the i little bit of controversy, for the simple — little bit of controversy, for the simple reason _ little bit of controversy, for the simple reason that _ little bit of controversy, for the simple reason that it _ little bit of controversy, for the simple reason that it is - little bit of controversy, for the simple reason that it is alleged that the — simple reason that it is alleged that the modi _ simple reason that it is alleged that the modi government - simple reason that it is alleged that the modi government paid possibly— that the modi government paid possibly three _ that the modi government paid possibly three times _ that the modi government paid possibly three times more - that the modi government paidj possibly three times more than that the modi government paid - possibly three times more than what was estimated — possibly three times more than what was estimated by— possibly three times more than what was estimated by the _ possibly three times more than what was estimated by the indian- possibly three times more than what was estimated by the indian defence ministry, _ was estimated by the indian defence ministry, and — was estimated by the indian defence ministry. and so _ was estimated by the indian defence ministry, and so it— was estimated by the indian defence ministry, and so it is— was estimated by the indian defence ministry, and so it is a _ was estimated by the indian defence ministry, and so it is a matter- was estimated by the indian defence ministry, and so it is a matter of- ministry, and so it is a matter of investigation _ ministry, and so it is a matter of investigation by— ministry, and so it is a matter of investigation by a _ ministry, and so it is a matter of investigation by a prosecutor- ministry, and so it is a matter of investigation by a prosecutor in. investigation by a prosecutor in paris. — investigation by a prosecutor in paris. at — investigation by a prosecutor in paris. at the _ investigation by a prosecutor in paris, at the moment, - investigation by a prosecutor in paris, at the moment, so- investigation by a prosecutor in paris, at the moment, so the l investigation by a prosecutor in - paris, at the moment, so the charge is obviously — paris, at the moment, so the charge is obviously corruption, _ paris, at the moment, so the charge is obviously corruption, that - paris, at the moment, so the charge is obviously corruption, that said, i is obviously corruption, that said, ithink— is obviously corruption, that said, i think britain _ is obviously corruption, that said, i think britain is— is obviously corruption, that said, i think britain is a _ is obviously corruption, that said, i think britain is a competitor, - i think britain is a competitor, when — i think britain is a competitor, when it— i think britain is a competitor, when it comes _ i think britain is a competitor, when it comes to _ i think britain is a competitor, when it comes to aircraft, - i think britain is a competitor, when it comes to aircraft, andj i think britain is a competitor, - when it comes to aircraft, and other products. _ when it comes to aircraft, and other products, certainly, _ when it comes to aircraft, and other products, certainly, and _ when it comes to aircraft, and other products, certainly, and i— when it comes to aircraft, and other products, certainly, and i would - products, certainly, and i would venture — products, certainly, and i would venture to — products, certainly, and i would venture to say. _ products, certainly, and i would venture to say, that _ products, certainly, and i would venture to say, that this - products, certainly, and i would venture to say, that this visit i products, certainly, and i would. venture to say, that this visit and subsequently— venture to say, that this visit and subsequently will— venture to say, that this visit and subsequently will lead _ venture to say, that this visit and subsequently will lead to - venture to say, that this visit and subsequently will lead to some . subsequently will lead to some enhanced — subsequently will lead to some enhanced british— subsequently will lead to some enhanced british exports - subsequently will lead to some enhanced british exports to - subsequently will lead to some i enhanced british exports to india. we were — enhanced british exports to india. we were talking _ enhanced british exports to india. we were talking about _ enhanced british exports to india. we were talking about weapon, . enhanced british exports to india. | we were talking about weapon, let enhanced british exports to india. - we were talking about weapon, let us talk about weapons to ukraine and the prime minister announced british tanks are going to poland so poland can, to replace the tanks poland sent to ukraine because ukraine has the engineering knowledge and spare parts for soviet era equipment not western equipment. he also suggested there could come a point where we sent challenge earp tanks directly to ukraine. is that upping the ante or is this such a blurred question it doesn't have clear significance. it does and i don't think it is blurred. it is very interesting, when you look at the origins of many terrible global wars, world war i and world war ii, especially world war i, you could see everyone moving in different directions with no intention of it becoming a global nightmare and it becomes one. when this began people said biden, johnson, we have to be careful about escalation, there you have an example of something which appears to be escalation in terms of the uk's involvement, and i heard a tory mp being interviewed this morning saying what is the end? johnson said putin must lose, what does that mean? ~ . ., . putin must lose, what does that mean? ., ., , ., mean? what does losing look like? and that is related _ mean? what does losing look like? and that is related to _ mean? what does losing look like? and that is related to the _ mean? what does losing look like? and that is related to the question | and that is related to the question of whether you know, the uk and others should continue supplying all kinds of equipment to ukraine, because what is the end, and i think that question is starting to be posed and has to be answered, or else itjust posed and has to be answered, or else it just stealth posed and has to be answered, or else itjust stealth li becomes a potential terrible conflagration, it is already awful, but what is the end game? it is not clear. i think johnson's — end game? it is not clear. i think johnson's road _ end game? it is not clear. i think johnson's road back— end game? it is not clear. i think johnson's road back -- _ end game? it is not clear. i think johnson's road back -- rode - end game? it is not clear. i think johnson's road back -- rode back end game? it is not clear. i think i johnson's road back -- rode back a johnson's road back —— rode back a little _ johnson's road back —— rode back a little today— johnson's road back —— rode back a little today and said this is under consideration. not little today and said this is under consideration.— consideration. not it is definitely coin: consideration. not it is definitely auoin to consideration. not it is definitely going to happen- _ consideration. not it is definitely going to happen- l _ consideration. not it is definitely going to happen. i mean - consideration. not it is definitely going to happen. i mean he - consideration. not it is definitely going to happen. i mean he is i going to happen. i mean he is thinkin: going to happen. i mean he is thinking of — going to happen. i mean he is thinking of doing _ going to happen. i mean he is thinking of doing what - going to happen. i mean he is thinking of doing what biden . going to happen. i mean he is - thinking of doing what biden decided not to— thinking of doing what biden decided not to do— thinking of doing what biden decided not to do with aircraft, but with tank. _ not to do with aircraft, but with tank. and — not to do with aircraft, but with tank. and i_ not to do with aircraft, but with tank, and i do know there are ukrainian _ tank, and i do know there are ukrainian troops being trained to use tanks— ukrainian troops being trained to use tanks here, now. to me, it is not a _ use tanks here, now. to me, it is not a clear— use tanks here, now. to me, it is not a clear line, you know, where, where _ not a clear line, you know, where, where does. — not a clear line, you know, where, where does, where does this become a wider— where does, where does this become a wider war— where does, where does this become a wider war and who makes it so? putin's— wider war and who makes it so? putin's testing a new icbm, it is really— putin's testing a new icbm, it is really difficult. i completely take your point about people making moves and not _ your point about people making moves and not knowing where they go. it seems _ and not knowing where they go. it seemsiust— and not knowing where they go. it seemsjust now on and not knowing where they go. it seems just now on the ground, and not knowing where they go. it seemsjust now on the ground, that russia _ seemsjust now on the ground, that russia is— seemsjust now on the ground, that russia is very close to joining up crimea. — russia is very close to joining up crimea. the _ russia is very close to joining up crimea, the crimea with the donbas, then we _ crimea, the crimea with the donbas, then we have on the other side moldova — then we have on the other side moldova and in between odesa, that quintessential city, which is, i mean — quintessential city, which is, i mean that— quintessential city, which is, i mean that would be a huge deal if 0desa _ mean that would be a huge deal if 0desa fell to the russians. let mean that would be a huge deal if odesa fell to the russians.- odesa fell to the russians. let us talk in the — odesa fell to the russians. let us talk in the last _ odesa fell to the russians. let us talk in the last few _ odesa fell to the russians. let us talk in the last few minute, - odesa fell to the russians. let us talk in the last few minute, one i odesa fell to the russians. let us| talk in the last few minute, one of the things that unites modi, putin, and borisjohnson we sneemp as populists, who have rode a wave of strong feeling. quite successfully three of them, enforced in different ways. there is an election this weekend that could see a fourth joining that group, and it is the french presidential election where malky mackay, the centrist, —— emmanuel macron. challenged by marine le pen, and seems to be forever when you think of her father as well. and, all right people have said she is is not going to win but they haven't written her off. ida. they haven't written her off. no, and i they haven't written her off. no, and i think— they haven't written her off. no, and i think part _ they haven't written her off. no, and i think part of _ they haven't written her off. no, and i think part of the problem in france _ and i think part of the problem in france is — and i think part of the problem in france is that macron is not seen by most _ france is that macron is not seen by most people as a centrist but being on the _ most people as a centrist but being on the right so it a choice between two right—wing candidate who have jean-luc— two right—wing candidate who have jean—luc melenchon voters on the left. jean-luc melenchon voters on the left. , . ., ., ., left. he is the candidate of the left. he is the candidate of the left but he _ left. he is the candidate of the left but he has _ left. he is the candidate of the left but he has familiarity. - left. he is the candidate of the i left but he has familiarity. people are sa in: left but he has familiarity. people are saying they — left but he has familiarity. people are saying they can't _ left but he has familiarity. people are saying they can't bear- left but he has familiarity. people are saying they can't bear to - left but he has familiarity. people are saying they can't bear to hold| are saying they can't bear to hold their— are saying they can't bear to hold their nose — are saying they can't bear to hold their nose and vote for macron. it reminds— their nose and vote for macron. it reminds me — their nose and vote for macron. it reminds me of the trump clinton election. — reminds me of the trump clinton election, that perception of smugness, candidate for the irish rich. _ smugness, candidate for the irish rich. the — smugness, candidate for the irish rich, the establish. all of that, again— rich, the establish. all of that, again the — rich, the establish. all of that, again the polls suggest she won't win, again the polls suggest she won't win. but— again the polls suggest she won't win, but the underlying issues are not going — win, but the underlying issues are not going away, which have produced this wave _ not going away, which have produced this wave of— not going away, which have produced this wave of populist... a not going away, which have produced this wave of populist... a lot not going away, which have produced this wave of populist. . ._ this wave of populist... a lot the issues were _ this wave of populist... a lot the issues were there _ this wave of populist... a lot the issues were there five _ this wave of populist... a lot the issues were there five years - this wave of populist... a lot the | issues were there five years ago, you can understand about some of the feeling that where has president macron been on these things? exactly, a lot of these things are insoluble — exactly, a lot of these things are insoluble by national governments, they are _ insoluble by national governments, they are to — insoluble by national governments, they are to do with globalisation, these _ they are to do with globalisation, these enormous issues about energy, climate. _ these enormous issues about energy, climate, migration that are threatening to people. one _ threatening to people. one of— threatening to people. one of the problems, i think, in this climate _ 0ne of the problems, i think, in this climate of— one of the problems, i think, in this climate of anti—russia - this climate of anti—russia environment _ this climate of anti—russia environment has - this climate of anti—russia environment has been - this climate of anti—russia environment has been thej this climate of anti—russia - environment has been the fact that her party— environment has been the fact that her party took _ environment has been the fact that her party took this _ environment has been the fact that her party took this loan _ environment has been the fact that her party took this loan from - environment has been the fact that her party took this loan from a - her party took this loan from a russian — her party took this loan from a russian bank, _ her party took this loan from a russian bank, of— her party took this loan from a russian bank, of course - her party took this loan from a russian bank, of course it- her party took this loan from a russian bank, of course it wasj her party took this loan from a - russian bank, of course it was taken out six _ russian bank, of course it was taken out six years — russian bank, of course it was taken out six years ago. _ russian bank, of course it was taken out six years ago, but _ russian bank, of course it was taken out six years ago, but the _ russian bank, of course it was taken out six years ago, but the fact - russian bank, of course it was taken out six years ago, but the fact is - out six years ago, but the fact is that it _ out six years ago, but the fact is that it is — out six years ago, but the fact is that it is still— out six years ago, but the fact is that it is still the _ out six years ago, but the fact is that it is still the party— out six years ago, but the fact is that it is still the party with- out six years ago, but the fact is that it is still the party with the. that it is still the party with the national— that it is still the party with the national rally— that it is still the party with the national rally is _ that it is still the party with the national rally is still— that it is still the party with the national rally is still paying - that it is still the party with the| national rally is still paying back loan and — national rally is still paying back loan and it— national rally is still paying back loan and it coombs _ national rally is still paying back loan and it coombs at _ national rally is still paying back loan and it coombs at a - national rally is still paying back loan and it coombs at a bad - national rally is still paying backl loan and it coombs at a bad time national rally is still paying back- loan and it coombs at a bad time for her, loan and it coombs at a bad time for her. and _ loan and it coombs at a bad time for her. and in— loan and it coombs at a bad time for her. and in the — loan and it coombs at a bad time for her, and in the debate _ loan and it coombs at a bad time for her, and in the debate macron- loan and it coombs at a bad time for| her, and in the debate macron raised this matter. — her, and in the debate macron raised this matter, having _ her, and in the debate macron raised this matter, having said _ her, and in the debate macron raised this matter, having said that, - her, and in the debate macron raised this matter, having said that, i- this matter, having said that, i think— this matter, having said that, i think at— this matter, having said that, i think at the _ this matter, having said that, i think at the end _ this matter, having said that, i think at the end of _ this matter, having said that, i think at the end of testify- this matter, having said that, i think at the end of testify day, | this matter, having said that, ll think at the end of testify day, i think— think at the end of testify day, i think the — think at the end of testify day, i think the fear— think at the end of testify day, i think the fear of— think at the end of testify day, i think the fear of the _ think at the end of testify day, i think the fear of the far - think at the end of testify day, i think the fear of the far right. think at the end of testify day, ll think the fear of the far right will prevail. — think the fear of the far right will prevail. and _ think the fear of the far right will prevail, and therefore, - think the fear of the far right will. prevail, and therefore, regardless of macron's— prevail, and therefore, regardless of macron's average _ prevail, and therefore, regardlessj of macron's average performance, prevail, and therefore, regardless. of macron's average performance, i think— of macron's average performance, i think people — of macron's average performance, i think people will _ of macron's average performance, i think people will reconcile - think people will reconcile themselves— think people will reconcile themselves to _ think people will reconcile themselves to re—electing think people will reconcile - themselves to re—electing him. it is themselves to re-electing him. it is a curious voting _ themselves to re—electing him. a curious voting system. themselves to re-electing him. it is a curious voting system. in - themselves to re-electing him. it is a curious voting system. in the - a curious voting system. in the first round _ a curious voting system. in the first round virtually _ a curious voting system. in the first round virtually every - a curious voting system. in the first round virtually every voter has a voice and can identify and that you get this incredible range, you know, the left would do better than expected and so on, and then, it is narrowed down, and people have to agonise over what to do. i am sure you will probably be proven right, because that is the essence of that system, isn't it. people in... . , of that system, isn't it. people in... he was supposed to drive --eole in... he was supposed to drive people to _ in... he was supposed to drive people to a — in. .. he was supposed to drive people to a clear— in... he was supposed to drive people to a clear choice. - in... he was supposed to drive people to a clear choice. and . in... he was supposed to drive i people to a clear choice. and the least worse _ people to a clear choice. and the least worse so _ people to a clear choice. and the least worse so to _ people to a clear choice. and the least worse so to speak. - people to a clear choice. and the least worse so to speak. i - people to a clear choice. and the least worse so to speak. i am - people to a clear choice. and the least worse so to speak. i am so| least worse so to speak. i am so used to shock results now, i would be surprised if there isn't a shock result. ~ , , ., result. we were sitting here before, i think it is fair — result. we were sitting here before, i think it is fair to _ result. we were sitting here before, i think it is fair to say _ result. we were sitting here before, i think it is fair to say we _ result. we were sitting here before, i think it is fair to say we were - i think it is fair to say we were sitting not naming individuals because i am not sure if any of you were on the panel, the week before trump was elected, people were still pretty confident that he wasn't going to pull it off.— going to pull it off. even on election night, _ going to pull it off. even on election night, i— going to pull it off. even on election night, i remember| going to pull it off. even on - election night, i remember the broadcasters were early on reporting as if hilary krill on the has won. we are so conditioned to expect one thing, but we are now increasingly conditioned to be shocked. two factors, conditioned to be shocked. two factors. one — conditioned to be shocked. two factors, one is _ conditioned to be shocked. two factors, one is a _ conditioned to be shocked. two factors, one is a large number of undecided — factors, one is a large number of undecided voters, _ factors, one is a large number of undecided voters, and, - factors, one is a large number of undecided voters, and, you - factors, one is a large number of�* undecided voters, and, you don't know_ undecided voters, and, you don't know which— undecided voters, and, you don't know which they _ undecided voters, and, you don't know which they will _ undecided voters, and, you don't know which they will end - undecided voters, and, you don't know which they will end up - undecided voters, and, you don't know which they will end up on . undecided voters, and, you don't. know which they will end up on the final day, _ know which they will end up on the final day, the — know which they will end up on the final day, the second _ know which they will end up on the final day, the second is _ know which they will end up on the final day, the second is this- know which they will end up on the final day, the second is this very . final day, the second is this very significant — final day, the second is this very significantjean—luc_ final day, the second is this very significant jean—luc melenchon i significant jean—luc melenchon section— significant jean—luc melenchon section of— significant jean—luc melenchon section of voters. _ significant jean—luc melenchon section of voters. attracted - significant jean—luc melenchon| section of voters. attracted 21% significant jean—luc melenchon i section of voters. attracted 21% in the first— section of voters. attracted 21% in the first round. _ section of voters. attracted 21% in the first round. find _ section of voters. attracted 21% in the first round. and three-quarters of all muslim _ the first round. and three-quarters of all muslim voters, _ the first round. and three-quarters of all muslim voters, if _ the first round. and three-quarters of all muslim voters, if they - the first round. and three-quarters of all muslim voters, if they can . the first round. and three-quarters of all muslim voters, if they can be i of all muslim voters, if they can be persuaded that macron is at least more tolerable for their prospects than le pen, and you can mobilise that vote, that could be significant.— that vote, that could be siunificant. �* :: , ., significant. but 50% of them might, i don't significant. but 5096 of them might, i don't say it — significant. but 5096 of them might, i don't say it will— significant. but 5096 of them might, i don't say it will happen _ significant. but 5096 of them might, i don't say it will happen but - significant. but 5096 of them might, i don't say it will happen but one - i don't say it will happen but one poll said — i don't say it will happen but one poll said that, _ i don't say it will happen but one poll said that, 50% _ i don't say it will happen but one poll said that, 50% of _ i don't say it will happen but one poll said that, 50% of them - i don't say it will happen but one. poll said that, 50% of them might either— poll said that, 50% of them might either not — poll said that, 50% of them might either not vote, _ poll said that, 50% of them might either not vote, or— poll said that, 50% of them might either not vote, or spoil— poll said that, 50% of them might either not vote, or spoil their- either not vote, or spoil their ballot — either not vote, or spoil their ballot. , i either not vote, or spoil their ballot.- i think— either not vote, or spoil their ballot.- i think he - either not vote, or spoil their ballot.- i think he was i either not vote, or spoil their ballot. yes. i think he was al ballot. yes. i think he was a heavily muslim _ ballot. yes. i think he was a heavily muslim suburb - ballot. yes. i think he was a heavily muslim suburb of i ballot.“ i think he was a - heavily muslim suburb of paris, he is on _ heavily muslim suburb of paris, he is on it _ heavily muslim suburb of paris, he is on it he — heavily muslim suburb of paris, he is on it he is— heavily muslim suburb of paris, he is on it. he is on it. but a long way— is on it. he is on it. but a long way to— is on it. he is on it. but a long way to 9d _ is on it. he is on it. but a long way to 90-— way to go. the question is the future, way to go. the question is the future. we. — way to go. the question is the future, we, you _ way to go. the question is the future, we, you know, - way to go. the question is the future, we, you know, it- way to go. the question is the future, we, you know, it is- way to go. the question is the l future, we, you know, it is kind way to go. the question is the - future, we, you know, it is kind of the nature of our beast, we review the nature of our beast, we review the week but we look ahead, and not withstanding the result on sunday night, it is a question of what happens next time round. there will be no macron because he can't run for a third successive term. will that party have a candidate, will there be a return to the left and right. marine le pen could be a a candidate in five years' time. absolutely. candidate in five years' time. absolutely-— candidate in five years' time. absolutel. ,, , ., absolutely. she has been round forever and _ absolutely. she has been round forever and will _ absolutely. she has been round forever and will continue - absolutely. she has been round forever and will continue to - absolutely. she has been round i forever and will continue to remain forever and will continue to remain forever and will continue to remain forever a candidate, but this is the other thing, forever a candidate, but this is the otherthing, because forever a candidate, but this is the other thing, because the collapse of the so—called orthodox parties in france, and the rise of macron almost as sort of personalised party, has kind of completely fractured the party system, and yet although it is a presidential election that we are witnessing now, you do have to have party bases, macron busted through that, but with these consequences, that the parties are so weakened, there could be space for a le pen figure to surface at some point, so i think it is worrying that those older parties have just kind of collapsed, because what replaced them? the have just kind of collapsed, because what replaced them?— have just kind of collapsed, because what replaced them? the party may be -- over for some _ what replaced them? the party may be -- over for some but _ what replaced them? the party may be -- over for some but the _ —— overfor some but the consequences live on for everybody else. thank you all very much. thank you for your company, martine will be be in this chair next week. i will see you in a fortnight. from all of dateline goodbye. cows lying down here in ballymena in northern ireland earlier, that used to be said it was a sign that rain is coming but very little chance here, as it stands. these are the rainfall accumulations for the next seven day, i know the map shades in as blue we are at the pale end and that means a couple of millimetres for some parts, towards the west, nothing at all. why is it so dry? high pressure. this big high sitting to the north of the uk. there is a low for the south, ploughing off into the continent. the isobars between the two are fairly close together, and that is why we are seeing a notable easterly wind through the course of the weekend. there is a small chance of some showers across wales, the midland and the south—west of england through the afternoon. maybe the odd one getting into yorkshire, coming in off the north sea coast. overall we are dominated by dry weather that, easterly wind keeps things feely cool on the lent of the north sea coast. some spots getting up no higher than 11 or 12. sunshine further west and we should sigh temperatures, 16, i7, further west and we should sigh temperatures, 16, 17, 18. overnight saturday into sunday, the isobars open up a bit across scotland, chance of a patchy frost in eastern areas through the small hour, you can see very little change in that weather picture on the whole for sunday. if anything, weather picture on the whole for sunday. ifanything, perhaps weather picture on the whole for sunday. if anything, perhaps more in the way of sunshine on sunday for england and wales, chance of a showerfor england and wales, chance of a shower for the channel island, one or two for the south—west. elsewhere it is looking dry, still some thicker cloud sitting to the north of scotland. temperatures on sunday, we are still looking at highs of 16 to 18. here is a change for the beginning of the week, though. high pressure, that is not going anywhere but it is drifting further west, so we will just but it is drifting further west, so we willjust move to a northerly direction after the easterly and that what does is tap us into arctic air, the feel through the coming seven days will be an increasingly chilly one, temperatures though, still with a bit of sunshine, not too bad overall so a shade down on where we would expect. gone the 17s, 18s, we are looking at perhaps 16 or 15. a lot of dry weather through the weekend ahead. this is bbc news — welcome if you're watching here in the uk or around the globe. our top stories... the ukrainian government urges the un to do more to help bring the estimated 100,000 people trapped inside the city of mariupol to safety. campaigning has ended in france's presidential election — as emmanuel macron and his far—right rival marine le pen urge people to turn out and vote on sunday. i'm david eades live in la courneuve — just outside paris — where we'll be looking ahead to tomorrow's vote. the majority of people he had rejected both those candidates say their decision in the second round could be key to the outcome. downing street confirms britain's prime minister — borisjohnson — has not yet received any further fines for