Hi im Steve Clements and i have a question is there a connection between the shooting of jacob blake and can osha wall street capitalism and Excessive Military spending my guest today says there is lets get to the bottom line. When a policeman shot jacob blake 7 times in the back in front of his kids in wisconsin last month it was a painful reminder that real change is not coming fast enough to these United States the shooting reignited passions across the country especially after an armed white 17 year old counter protester came to wisconsin from a nearby state until 2 other people protesting the shooting so whats going on in the United States are we heading down a healthy road will race continue to be used cynically to get votes while the poor and disadvantaged continue to suffer endlessly joining us today is someone who has been thinking of preaching about these issues for decades he is professor cornell west one of the most prominent intellectuals alive professor west teaches at harvard and princeton universitys hes written 20 books and he still has time for his new weekly podcast and its great the tight rope. Professor thank you so much for joining us recently i was at the National Museum of africanamerican history and culture and i saw the emmett till way i saw the wing that tells the story of the horrifying near genocide in tulsa in 1921 and we can occur to me that george floyd a modern are very Rionda Taylor could one day be a wing in a museum and we would still have everything the same today so let me just ask you bluntly is this is an end in Inflection Point to you or do you think that this is just history you know going to continue on as it always has. Well there certainly a moment of change of the question is whether its going to be change that tilts toward poor and working people or whether it will be a change or just reconsolidate he leet rule moving in much more neo fascist ways let me say it is steve in tribute to you and the work youve done with the legendary charmers h. Johnson one of the great scholars of the american empire that much of American Public discourse and most american intellectuals are armed at this moment because we have never taken seriously what it means to examine america as an empire and the ways in which america as an empire allows us to understand the relation between White Supremacy lets say like george floyd being. Lynched and wall street and corporate elite and the military Industrial Complex and the empirical tentacles of the United States around the world in a 100 military units. A military budget that is more than the next 9 countries combined so what happens is is that even when you think of the museum you know the museum is just so merrill centric with no connection of the ways in which predatory capitalism and imperial subordination of brought type geopolitics and type of Natural Resources like oil in the middle east for example are connected to white supremacist practices at home and still as the american empire continues to decline as it moves truer its its collapse as it were we dont have the intellectual weaponry required to understand what is really going on well now William Appleton way humans and Bernard Deval told him back in the thirtys in the fiftys chomsky today and of course there may be. The boys sylvia winter and her brilliance and genius from the Vantage Point of jamaica and Stanford University provides some intellectual love weapon through but for the most part the orientation of the public discussion the orientation of the curriculum in our universities do not understand United States is in part that we can get rock obama always talking about it in a credit deficit or talking about. The founding of america cant say a mumbling word about Indigenous Peoples because its the difference between Understanding America as a settler colonial enterprise that moved from 13 states to 48. 00 in then 50 as imperial expansion as opposed to america as a democrat experiment it left out black people and all we need to do is include back people america becomes another did that grant shouldnt city only heal that beacon of liberty no even if White Supremacy were to disappear america would still be an Unjust Society because the capitalist processes are such that the levels of poverty would be still there that they are not i think passion i think that at the workplace would still be there the military units around the world would still be there so we have to have a conception of martin killing talk and of course the great debate boys is a scholar that does bring all of this together but he taught us what justice is in big visible i know you dont look at the trump biden standoff. And choice as being the right choice but does this create the ingredients were finally this country could change or do you feel as if were going to still be hollowing out people still maintaining racism the kind of keep our our global sprawl if you will. Question what we want is that. Theres no doubt with the neo fascist gangster in the white house we have to be part of an Antifascist Coalition because he. His being in charge of things can easily call into question the very possibility of any kind of democratic practices rights and liberties let alone social movements and so for the neo liberal wing of the ruling class with this damage and Democratic Party is still going to be a. Disaster but not the catastrophe that trump ears because theyre still so tied to wall street just built so tight to the pentagon is still so tied to militarism around the world in their conception of justice is to just simply make the class an imperial hierarchy more colorful so they want more black people and want more brown people they more want want more women to be part of this class hierarchy to be part of this imperial hierarchy so its still very much an imperial democracy in that sense and thats where so many people think that lo and behold thats what it means to be progressive but the much more raw truth telling and just a seeking tradition that does have a real rich in the United StatesUnited States has always had that had critics of the american empire has always been deal ella baker who was invoked by biden himself in the speech ella baker was an exemplary. Anti imperial and a strong critic of capitalism and she work with Martin Luther king jr National Work with Stokley Carmichael and i and nash and the others where things are going now i just dont know and we had a wonderful gathering the last few days with brother dick brown and the movement for Peoples Party where you got this variety could cough very very courageous visionary voices with the critique of the drums the critiques of the bombs drop the critiques of support of any regime that at dominating our occupying a people vicious Israeli Occupation for example truck we went we must stay in contact with the richie manatee of our palestinian brothers and sisters were not in any way getting an antiu. S. Hatred anti jewish sensibility but telling the truth about the vicious behavioral of right wing jewish elite gangsters like nathan yahoo so for saying would be true in terms of critiques of domination in russia because of domination in china critics of domination and africa will be able to tell the truth and the condition of truth is to allow suffering to speak and thats why we will we love the brother johnson work i mean he began with with japan born back to the men regime and being 68 and telling that story and their imperialism of japan because of big korea well how do we keep track of the humanity of those front ramon call the wretched of the earth its intellectual to pass it as a moral task and i speak of course of the christian it is a spirit task we have to have afforded to in the face of all of the oppression the lot the crimes and the neck it ugly repression that will more likely come our way and therefore too can beef fructify no one forward William Wordsworth preclude what is it the fructify the jury fruit that generate intellect. To fruit ways of seeing to generate more fruit ways of acting to generate steady cruet weight feeling see differently beer all differently at different listener we keep track of empire White Supremacy male supremacy and homophobic chant transphobia any form of the religion that would undermine rights and liberties in any form of institutional never lose sight of the presence humanity of each and every one of us and i would even go far as the saying of course it simply creatures because were talking about ecological catastrophe and extinction of so many species and were also talking about possible Nuclear Catastrophe which could bring man to the planet as we know it given the 2 gangsters who actually are in control of those buttons putin on the one hand and trump on the other what does Racial Justice and Racial Inclusion look like and feel like what when you know youve got it theres a lot of tom all out there but i dont know if people have an idea of what it is to have that construct in front of them and im wondering if you can share a vision of that for our viewers what i mean how is it justice what love looks like in public its like tinnitus is what love feels like in private and when it comes to the 400 year attempt to call into question the humanity of black people in the western hemisphere it was rare much of modern construction tied to slavery intact predatory calves expansion of the cotton picking in the us out to the lancashire type to learn to show mills in britain allowing britain to be the 1st country to industrialise before any other that were really talking about. Sumi for flare manatee black people. So that all the vicious attacks on black intelligence the attacks on black beauty knows its that lips hair texture skin skin pigmentation the attacks on black moral character in trying to ensure that black people are always Walking Around scared intimidate so that psychologically youre already on free spiritually youre already on free thats what White Supremacy does so to talk about Racial Justice is not just to talk about equal access to goods and services and black people have been submissive determination that has to do with you that respect has to do with issues of of genuine acknowledgement richie managed and we know of anybody who recognizes rich humanity like guilty of not like a jerk off short stories like a John Coltrane solo we all have propensities that are good and bad propensities for evil propensity toward the good at the exceptions of ones humanity but when black People Associated primarily with path ology primarily with ignorance primarily with lack of and all of the vicious troops that go hand in hand with racism talk about Racial Justice talk about black lives matter is an attempt to shatter all of those lives. But there can never be Racial Justice without Economic Justice they can never be Racial Justice without gender just because people act but would be a black woman it cant be it would our voting on before because weve always been gay brother the lives misses of the black community so that Racial Justice again is in the visible from all of the forms of justice and youre right i mean for me and my own. Rather parochial way you know i call it that my own particular kind of christianity is deeply rooted in how i was raised and what i read and so forth and so on but i really do believe that he grew scripture it was a kind of more revolution in the species in terms of defining what it means to be human is the spread has that steadfast love and loving kindness to the orphan the widow of the partners and motherless is not alexander the great is not our chillies is not all of the heroes who are going as con even cyrus the Great Respect for our sake and than him for coming out of the world historical persian tradition but but at that deeper level ordinary people have a preciousness and a priceless ness thats what sits at the center of the imago day and people scripture and then Jesus Mohamed come right out of that prophetic you did it tradition and thats where i would look to our situate myself but also you know and socratic legacy of athens means a lot to me no question and the constant questioning the need to put down the need to wrestle with perplexity not just curiosity the perplexity of chain near at the end of that classic by shakespeare the how hes howling why because he has all the land his world is shattered when thats profoundly human is like bob marleys the whalers and now whining the way less theyre waiting why because of the suffering the misery how do you get a handle on it so that theyd need to have the last word need that a misery nor the suffering just like in the. Well despair have the last word wonderful wonderful. Issue that you see shot to shakespeares magnificent corpus these are the kind of questions it seems to me that are very important these days because were living in a movie fascism escalating and despair intensifying and we have to be able to work through the spare like a brutal fight like what mark said about 4 bucks the brutal for which we all must pass in order to become more fortunate and they have to look for it to be more ready to be more willing to think feel seat fight lead organize and live and die dr west that wonderful depiction. Of soul and purpose and i appreciate it i know that you have not endorsed joe biden but i know that you have said thats one path to stopping donald trump but do you see anything in the wreckage of that time that gives you hope that biden may actually be more willing to work on this class and Economic Justice piece of the democracy puzzle then you give him credit for. Well appreciate the question by the state i just dont know how people change no one would have thought that a wise approach as like Lyndon Baines johnson would be the major president ial force for a black progress in the 1960 s. People do change and the evidence for biden doesnt look good by tends to be someone who just moves. With the whispers of others in the crime bill the architect of the. Most massive mass incarceration regime in the modern world targeting poor people especially black black youth the same would be true with the war in iraq killing of half of me and precious brother the sisters in iraq with no apology whatsoever mean these are these are these are real crimes against humanity it seems to me and hes not the only politician politicians across the board were complicitous in the in congress in washington d. C. At the time but he might change i mean i do believe people can change i just cant make big profits. Progressive project on his changing thats why i vote for him as an antifascist vote stand with noam chomsky and stand with angela davis and stand with my brother bob avakian encourage dicks stare at a whole host of of leftism progressives who have antifascist orientation but i respect the poll streets and the chris hedges and the glen forwards in the market kimberlys in the a jew mobile rockers who are very critical of involved but youre still my comrade we just disagree strategically on that but who knows i mean it could be that the escalating. People in the streets to pressure from the street does make biden more and more l. B. J. Like at this time its hard to say will says to come alive harris also be pushed its hard to say her record is not nearly way kerching in this regard she seems to be very much like my. She is they are garden variety politician she will do what is necessary in order to win the next election in order to win the applause of the centrism the moderates and specially the donors and the benefactors who provide the money i do think Democratic Party just so call in wall street and big money and big donors and the bit lobbyist from a pac for example youve got a number of folk in Democratic Party who know that the treatment of our brother and sister that in one west bank in gaza has to crimes against humanity but they dont have the courage you know to back on speak out against it theyll be viewed as antisemitic even as anti jewish and its just not a case of that but thats lobby lobby money i think young jewish bones sources who are now joining hands with many of the palestinians and many of us in terms of calling for justice but we want to make sure of course that all of us are accountable Palestinian Jews across the border of the truth and trying to justice no revenge no hatred we have to bring critique to bear no matter what but were focusing on the suffering and the misery well by be open to that kind of move i doubt it but you never know i dont believe in dictating peoples behavior nobel. We human beings we are mysterious unpredictable disasters and possible wonders at the same time. As people watch the violence in portland as they worry about whats going on in cities how do we get it right dr west. Where they are thats another wonderful question of but you know the great poet t. S. Eliot to be given his tested genius had his own reactionary politics too much and jewish element in him but his genius and. He wrote 936. 00 burnt norton he said we moderns are distracted from distractions by this tractions and so much of American Culture which is a commodify culture its full of just weapons of mass distraction. And so much of the substantive issues of pentagon power pentagon crimes wall street power wall street Crimes Police power Police Crimes wealth inequality these are the substantive issues those are the ones fundamentally that can change peoples lives at the deepest level we in america tend not for the distractions so we end up with the politics of representation the politics of spectacle so you get fights over the monument to get fights over what you gonna write in your street black blood matter and so forth i agree with so much of those i would like to see new kinds of symbol symbols in some sense do matter but symbols also become distractions from the more fundamental issues and when those fundamental issues are issues that require people to come together in multiracial solidarity in motels sexual and multinational solidarity those are the ones who that matter. And so i think to see so much energy spent lets say in a small town like that so much energy spent over just intense debate and come up with resources and put black lies matter right there in the square and then you look around in the neighborhoods and black people are still living lives of poverty and misery and brawn and disaster you still got a mass incarceration system working you still got decrepit School Systems you still got in decent housing you dont have the assets the medicare which is the most i mean can you imagine any Civilized Society not allowing its citizens to have assets to medical care but no weve got Big Pharmaceutical Companies in there greet in their interest youve got big private Insurance Companies in their grief and theyre into the dont even allow an 89 percent of american citizens want medicare for all of it brother bernie was talking about big Democratic Party cant deliver Republican Party and i think about delivering why because the oligarchs to plutocrats dictate the destiny of the nation not the people so those are much more substantive to me the red ink black lines matter in washington d. C. But black clad matter was in detroit and so forth so on so people walk around with a sense of fulfillment weve got this symbolic victory and then they steal kitchen hey. We thought it would do us president would bring the bronco obama black president black attorney general black Homeland Security black mayors and they still cant stop the police from killing young Black Brothers and sisters be honest theyll go. Floyds. Brother garner still got substantive issues are not being addressed and in this set the divisions have to do with a predatory capitalist system they have to do it a militarism abroad that takes 0. 53 of baby discretionary dollars spent in washington to go to military and you only have 0. 47 left and then even there youve got austerity programs the neo liberals say we dont have any money but all when its time to go to war in afghanistan when its time to overthrow. The ruler in libya yank that he would still have a right to rule without us overthrowing him and so we dropping a drunk only innocent people in yemen and somalia and afghanistan and pakistan its all we got big money for that was trying to bail out wall street Federal Reserve done bell out not just main street they could have bailed out Community Banks they could have built a whole host about the banks why do you remain tied to the wall wall street banks thats got in there that summers and sterling thats the ones you were talking about easy right thats goolsbee thats their world a little narrow truncated wall street centered world it was it was peter doing well its a stock market doing well that america is doing well what a large what does it mean and impart dictated to tell lies hiding crime right thats chickens that come home to roost when you tell so many lies and you engage in so many crimes you think that somehow you are still innocent jane hall and you say you cant be off the rest of the risers just devastation and steal view yourself in the sense that in a sense itself is the crime even before you commit the crime and thats right problem of the United States weve been innocent for so long with Indigenous People innocent but since layman africans innocent would subordination exploitation of white workers innocent in terms of the women. We make our great screws yes we do because People Struggle people sacrifice and yet the big breakthrough they have to be able to do is use just beyond the symbolic ones well the symbolic ones right come this direction so it was reading about in this poll well dr dr west i think we delivered talked about economic economics economic inequality economic subordination we talked about imperialism colonialism and we talked about race and you tie them all together and i have to say youre a total realist youre like no b. S. Realist but theres a hope in this in that and i just want to say thank you well sure hope no optimism does exactly right. Yeah well thank you so much for thank you for joining the bottom line they do d salute you my group so whats the bottom line cornell west is not optimistic about the future of this country no matter who wins in november hes right when he says that race will be used as a wedge issue in the selection and hes right when he says that america will do anything to maintain its empire including hollowing out the Economic Standing of its own citizens and i guess i agree with him when he says were all prisoners of hope and thats the bottom line. September on aljazeera the trial of those accused of helping in the 2015 Charlie Hebdo newspaper attacks begins impacts as the world plans to move 2 was green and its a new documentary examining the fresh environmental challenges this will cause following the postponement of parliamentary elections due to coronavirus iranians return to the voting blocs one on one east investigates indepth stories from across asia and the pacific as u. S. President Donald Trumps executive order banning will check chinas most popular app comes into effect across america will dispose of the strain on u. S. China relations september on aljazeera. We understand the differences on the similarities of cultures across the world so no matter what you see we are getting the news in kind of forums that matter to you. Already. Donald trump backtracks off to suggesting that americans should try to vote twice in november he now says the voters must check if the postal ballots have been counted. A librarian for them this is our 0 live from doha also coming up we called on russia to investigate this in a transparent and subtle manner the e. U. Steps up the pressure on russia as the credit rejects german allegations that opposition figure alexina valmy was poor