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Had been an outcome determinative fraud in the lection and he won. these claims were false and the defendant knew they were false. that is what donald trump is facing today. let s bring back our panel. yasmin, andrew, aaron, tim, also with us, jonathan lemire, politico s white house bureau chief and host of msnbc s way too early, and neal katyal, former u.s. acting solicitor general. what for you, neal, is the headline as you watch what is unfolding inside that district courthouse today? well, this is a very solemn moment. this process, what donald trump is going to go through, is called arraignment. it traces back to the 14th century. it s reflected in our legal treatises of the founding, and indeed in our sixth amendment, which guaranteed a criminal defendant the right to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation against him. so this is going to be a very simple, straightforward ....
People who refused to testify. mark meadows refused to testify. he knows a lot he wouldn t speak to us at all mr. giuliani asserted attorney/client privilege repeatedly i think it was a stretch but he knows a lot there are other people involved who could shed light certainly, pence is a major witness. congresswoman, thank you very much for joining us on this day of breaking news joyce vance is with us joyce, charlie sykes reported in the last hour that in a podcast this feels if we are at the pence stage before the grand jury, we are near the end. do you agree with that a degree with it in the sense you cannot indict this case before you talk to mike pence. it s exactly what tim says ....
There were steps before they went in and testified. is there anything about the eight hours that strikes you you have covered a lot of investigations seems like a long day. tim has a better sense of what went on in this period of time than anyone else. you have to wonder and think, were there any conversations between trump and pence in which it was just the two of them? you have to think that there was something that was said at some point when it was only the two of them in the room. maybe pence never told anyone about or didn t tell many people about and had to answer questions about today. i m sure that at some point in that questioning, he was asked about one on one interactions with trump who knows? i mean i don t know democratic congresswoman ....
Investigation of trump that we know of in which pence has been questioned, congressional or justice department or otherwise. in that sense, this is a very significant thing. he has never had to be under oath in the room with a prosecutor answering extremely detailed questions about exactly what went on in the room and what he saw. in that sense, this is a very different day for him than anyone else. to the point that tim was saying about the investigation, they talked to pretty much everyone else for this investigation except for pence pence has accomplished something here that he set out to do, which was, he took to politically try to protect himself. it certainly seemed like he was trying to make it look like he was forced into doing this it looks like a well orchestrated, calculated ....
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