indictment is of the people around the ex-president? well, i m not sure. i sort of see this in the larger context as sort of the ultimate culmination of the trump presidency. you know, i go back to the early days where trump is trying to convince comey to drop the flynn investigation. comey getting fired and everything that comes out after that and the efforts to sort of contain trump as he s trying to go after mueller. in those first two years, trump gets in a lot of trouble for a range of things, but ultimately in the second two years is unshackled and is truly unbound. and i think that s what we see in this last few months of the presidency. it s just the ultimate unboundness of donald trump. and the ultimate fear of those who still remained. the don mcgahn, john kellys of the world, the range of other people who were sort of buffers
acts of incitement. trump calling it an insult to the people who voted for him in the 2020 election and stoking speculation about another run for president. referring to the next time i m in the white house. there s likely more where that came froms as trump headlines a gop gathering here in north carolina, still spreading disinformation about the 2020 election he lost with false claims of missing ballots and illegal voting here and though the gop still revolves around trump, that s not stopping other presidential hopefuls from testing the waters. mike pence on the circuit in new hampshire contradicting trump on the january 6th insurrection. i don t know that we ll ever see eye to eye on that day. back in d.c., a different litigation of the trump era, this one years in the making. it vindicates the congressional subpoena right. that s the main one. don mcgahn testifying behind closed doors on capitol hill
follow his legal advice. my question to you, paul, the word clearly, can mcgahn s testimony have an impact on trump himself and to what degree? , it s probably too late. he has compelling evidence and it will be up to merrick garland as to whether he wants to bring a case against trump. so far he doesn t seem to show that appetite. if congress had been able to hear this evidence from mcgahn, it might have changed the outcome of trump s first impeachment, what the trump administration did was slow draft this case through the courts so that mcgahn would never have to testify to congress. now, alex, some of the congress people are mad that the courts didn t fast track this case, and so now there s pending legislation that would require courts to accelerate cases involving congressional subpoenas. complicated, to say the
and yes, if you are fully immunized, if you can t be prosecuted for anything that you tell the grand jury about then, yes, and in fact, back in the day when organized crime was subject to grand jury invest investigations and they would spill it and talk about everything else. most people if you get subpoenaed you can claim the fifth. in new york, you can t, but if what that means is you can t be prosecuted. got it. let s look at the don mcgahn situation there, don mcgahn, former white house counsel appearing before the house judiciary committee. they subpoenaed him two years ago to undermine the mueller investigation. what do you think came out of this almost eight hours of testimony behind closed doors? don mcgahn was the low-key star of the mueller report.
he told investigators that trump had tried to hire mueller and then asked his aides to lie about it. so if trump had been prosecuted for obstruction, mcgahn would have been the prosecution s most important witness. trump refused to let mcgahn testify in congress. he made this bizarre claim about absolute immunity. so alex, there s been this pitch battle in the courts which culminated with this deal so there will be a transcript that s released next week about mcgahn s testimony yesterday. right. we ll get details with the tran crypt and let me read from jerry nadler. mr. mcgahn testified at length to an extremely dangerous period in our nation s history, in which president trump increasingly unhinged and fearful of his own liability, and mr. mcgahn was distressed by president trump s refusal to