interfered in the 2016 presidential election to help hillary clinton. there was some very strong testimony, jim schiutto, from david holmes, the counselor for political affairs in the u.s. education in ukraine overheard that phone conversation between the president and gordon sondland. he made clear he had direct and frequent access to president trump and chief of staff mick mulvaney and portrayed himself as the conduit for michek mulvay in this group and he said it had come from mr. mulvaney with no further explanation. the key the core of their defense is there is no director line to the president. the fact is if you listen to a string of witneses and holmes as well, that s not a credible argument.