the ambassador agreed he president did not give an expletive about ukraine. he said he only cares about big stuff. i noted there was big stuff like a war in russia. ambassador sondland said he meant big stuff that benefits the president, like the biden investigation mr. guiliani was pushing. mr. guiliani s role reemerged. a former top white house aide described how mr. trump embraced the conspiracy theory. mr. guiliani was having a direct influence on the foreign policy agenda. my recollection, ambassador sondland said, damn it, rudy. every time he gets involved he fs everything up. he said rudy guilliani was a hand grenade that would blow everything up. alarm bells going off on
interfered in the 2016 presidential election to help hillary clinton. there was some very strong testimony, jim schiutto, from david holmes, the counselor for political affairs in the u.s. education in ukraine overheard that phone conversation between the president and gordon sondland. he made clear he had direct and frequent access to president trump and chief of staff mick mulvaney and portrayed himself as the conduit for michek mulvay in this group and he said it had come from mr. mulvaney with no further explanation. the key the core of their defense is there is no director line to the president. the fact is if you listen to a string of witneses and holmes as well, that s not a credible argument.
ambassador sondland s role. he was being involved as a foreign errand. those two things just diverged. and nick mulvaney was to arrange an office meeting between president trump and the ukranian president. he said he had an agreement with chief of staff mulvaney in return for investigations this meeting would get scheduled. she recalled how john bolton then the national security advisor told her to report it. the specific instruction was i had go to the lawyers for john eisenberg. i was senior counsel for the national security counsel. he said you tell eisenburg ambassador told me i am not part of what they are cooking up. there were sharp words. i refuse to be part of a narrative the ukrainian
narrative. and david holmes directly tied the president to the ukraine pressure campaign as he described a phone call he overheard involving mr. trump and eu ambassador gordon sondland. this testimony today was so compelling. it was. fiona hill quickly debunked this conspiracy theory and david holmes spoke about the conversation he overheard between president trump and gordon sondland. the moment he realized president trump cared more about having joe biden and his son investigated than anything to do with ukraine. the four of us went to a nearby restaurant and sat on an outdoor terrace. ambassador selected a bottle of line and during lunch he said he would call president trump for an update. the phone call he overheard was july 26s, a day after he
president s point man, and his private attorney, they believe in this ukranian conspiracy theory. it s unclear, how much relates to his personal dealings and financial interests in ukraine and the gas interest and how much is it to try to feed president trump s desperate need to not admit russia helped him get elected because it challenges the legitimacy of his presidency. i was there at the time and it was more than just cyber intrusions, wolf, it was across the spectrum of misinformation to feed this into our system. i saw nothing about ukraine and it is unfounded and an effort by rudy to advance his personal financial interests there and the president to cast legitimacy