and in large part that s what she s trying to do when she talks about cover-ups but also talks about ways to kind of get the information democrats want without having to go off the cliff toward impeachment. it s something that s going to be difficult for her for sure. but it s something she s had to navigate before. she s not new to a difficult constituency of her own party. kimberly, the president tonight put his imprimate ur, that is to say, tweeted out a kind of super-cut highly edited clip of nancy pelosi today coming to pauses and stammering during her time before cameras. is this just where we are now? i think it is. and look, i m not a psychologist but it seems that this president seems to hit at others on the issue that people come to him on. and when his own it s been said about him. yes. and when his own competence and stability is questioned like he s insisted he s a stable genius at the same time he has to paint his adversaries as what
and kimberly, it s clear. watch any fox news in prime time. there was an air among some of the lawmakers of vindication after mueller dropped, that now we re going to go after the folks who caused this to be a thing in the first place. right. investigate the investigators. and this is not new. remember, they were calling for a second special counsel while the investigation was going on to look into the origins of this. there s a lot of talk about the steele dossier, which we know from reporting was whatnot spurred this investigation in the first place, but there s a persistent narrative that it is. just as jeremy said, normally speaking, giving an attorney general, the head of the doj, declassification power, and especially saying that he has to stay within the bounds of the law may not in itself seem like a big deal, but given that this attorney general has been providing cover for the president, we have seen him classify the mueller report in a
and finally, trump and his people will have to live with this over the long memorial day weekend. the new yorker is on the board with a barry blitt caricature cover offering a devastating depiction of the president s supplicants graham, barr, and mcconnell. it s titled the shining. we are happy to welcome tonight s guests to our lead-off discussion on this thursday evening. all four returning veterans. kimberly atkins senior washington correspondent for wbur, boston s npr news station. kelsey snell, congressional reporter for npr. robert costa, national political reporter for the washington post, moderator of washington week on pbs. and jeremy bash former chief of staff at cia and pentagon, former chief counsel for the house intel committee. and jeremy, given your experience on the hill, i d like to begin with you on this potential for the mueller testimony. here is how we know what we know
one thing. the other side of this is he has now published one of the most important public documents, dense as it may be, going back several decades in american life. one of the things democrats really want to do with mueller is i think kimberly is exactly right. they want to clarify the space between what the attorney general said the report would say and what the report said. and they also want to clarify some of those questions about obstruction of justice. and they feel like the only way to convince the american public is to bring mueller to do it himself. because as we have said there was so much focus on the mueller report being kind of the final answer, the thing that tied it all together. and they don t feel like they got that from the actual report. so having him testify, having it be the words in his own out of his mouth and speaking directly to the american people is very important to democrats. robert costa, let s go back a little bit further. if you re old enough to
what they re trying to do at the moment based on my conversations with house democrats is have a good faith negotiation with the special counsel to try to figure something out that would be agreeable to both sides. but for house democrats the testimony of mr. mueller is critical as they paint a picture for the american people about the president s conduct. so what mr. mueller wants may not be what he ends up getting as this process plays out. kimberly, in your view, you also happen in your life to be a lawyer. do you think people will be making a mistake if they cast this as the last card the democratic side has to play? are they forgetting all the deputies to mr. mueller who could also come forward having done the work in all their subcategories? certainly. robert mueller s not the only player in this. he is the biggest player because he is the person who has carried out this investigation. he s overseen it while not speaking for two years except