crimes. using as proof some of the scenes that we re getting out of bucha now as investigators start gooing through the rubble and the mud and discovering bodies and the brutality of it all. vladimir putin for himself says the atrocity claims are fake, false. they ve been rigged. he wendt on to say that the ukraine talks have hit a dead end. no doubt referring to these allegations as making them point less. what do you think of that? well, a couple of things. first of all, the allegation that these are this is genocide, i ll leave it up to the lawyers. there s no doubt that from the very outset there was four invasion routes. each headed up by a general officer. on all four invasion routes, there was significant bombardment of civilian neighborhoods with no military
forces to indoctrinate them about the importance of this event. and i want to ask you about that in a moment. first, though, you know, as you point out, this would be, if putin were to move forward, the biggest military action for russia since world war ii. so, it s it s not a small thing. it s not it s not crimea in 2014. this is big. and we did learn today that russia will be holding those joint-military exercises in belarus to which you just referred. and you actually put belarus as one of russia s possible invasion routes. so, on this screen, this is how you look at it if russia were to invade, the belarusian part of that would be the dotted-green line in this map. so, what does this news mean to you that they are now doing these exercises? well, erin, i think it means that they are really seriously ratcheting up the threat of an invasion of ukraine. and i i i know having talked to military analysts in the u.s. government, they are watching a possible flanking maneuver
up in the middle of the night with us. give us the sense on the ground, what you are feeling, what you are hearing and with the census about what sanctions may or may not accomplish. i ve been here for over a month now. assessing the order of battle. mapping out the invasion routes that they would come into. but i also spent time in the battlefront but with the commander of the joint task force down in that region. this is a very serious situation, fraught with a lot of danger. this is a country of 42 million people. the city of kyiv is the size of chicago. it is a very advanced western metropolitan city. if the west the russians invade this country, they are going to run into stiff military opposition. they may not have the greatest technology here, but what they have, they have home game in vantage. they have enough weapons to
to enforce an advantage. cumulatively, what is all that mean? i am one of the few analysts, maybe because like i said, i spent a month there studying the russian forces the invasion routes. with the ukrainian army, as commanders. who are in the fight. and just with the ukrainian people. i am one of the few analysts that think that they can beat the russians. i really do think that. yeah, i do. because this! what is that look like malcolm? what does it look like? it would look like people are evaluating that if russian tanks come into kyiv, that that is a victory. it is not! anyone who is any ben in an army carrier in a foreign city, with the foreign powers blowing you up daily with ieds. it does not mean victory, it means occupation. it surviving that occupation
more severe sanctions are expected tomorrow according to the white house. exactly what those measures look like remains to be seen. with us tonight, malcolm nance, author of special naval intelligence, cyber security, he is in ukraine tonight, has 35 years in the trade of counterterrorism and intelligence. and clint watts, west point graduate, army veteran, former fbi special agent and a distinguished research fellow at the foreign policy research institute. great to see both of you malcolm, i thank you for being up in the middle of the night with us. give us your sense on the ground, what you are feeling, what you are hearing and with the sense is about what sanctions may or may not accomplish. i ve been here for over a month now. assessing the russian order of battle. mapping out the invasion routes that they would come into.