which you can push back at them. but yeah, if they re going to keep at it, they re going to keep at it. and in those moments on each side of the interview when you arrive, when you re packing up, both with president asaad, but also gaddafi as well, can you learn things about how they interact with their colleagues, about how they carry themselves? absolutely. assad is incredibly polite in a sort of old world, courtly way. he ll leap to his feet when you get to the room. he ll break his neck to make sure he s not the first person through the door after you, and then, he always i ve interviewed him a few times and he always gives you about ten or 15 minutes one on one beforehand, you have a little chat. gaddafi, on the other hand, you know, he swept in, the absolute caricature of his own image, in a flowing ochre robe, aviator sunglasses, slightly spacey, at the head of a massive convoy of vehicles.
so, you know, it was almost like being in the room with his spitting image puppet. and in the case of those two men, you had also spent time reporting on the consequences of the actions of their government. considerable amount, yeah and their victims. how did you square the two men who were in front of you, who was speaking to you with apparent conviction, and what you knew to be the cause of their instructions? well, i tried to use it against them. for example, with gaddafi, he was saying, my people love me. they love me all i remember him saying that. he said it in english. and i said, well, hang on, a minute. i was just earlier on today, people were out on the streets of tripoli and they were protesting . he said, no, they were supporting me . i said, no, they weren t. they were saying down with gaddafi . no, they weren t. i actually think he believed in his own propaganda. he lived in a bubble. but so, i think you can try to use things you ve seen but the great st
you, maybe they offer you with a drink, someone is injured and you help them, how do you manage that relationship? one of the things that have really changed, all groups, from little armed groups to governments are much tighter about control of the media and they want to somehow control the message so they do like to keep a very close eye and insist on lots of permissions, just getting to somewhere like bakhmut requires all sorts of permissions and permits to get in there in the first place, and that gives them quite a bit of power over you. one of the things you have to realise is we are fairly powerless, and you work around those structures. and sometimes it requires making compromises, if you are working in the libya in the days of gadhafi, syria, or other authoritarian places, you have to
compromises, if you are working in the libya in the days of gadhafi, or other authoritarian players, you have to work on their system, which involve sometimes a lot of schmoozing but you must not compromise what comes out of it which is the journalism, what comes out of it which is thejournalism, and if there are problems of things you can t see, it s very important to be transparent and say we could not get that because. i was going to ask you about that because you think the journalists are transparent enough around the relationships and system that is necessary for them to be there? do you think the consumers of news understand that is the equation? understand that is the equation? understand that is the euuation? equation? some people say eole equation? some people say peeple find equation? some people say people find it equation? some people say people find it more - equation? some people say i people find it more interesting if we actually went more into some of the process
children back. what s the reason? what s the motivation to keep that allowed authorities to them as your nationals with your passport, teach them a foreign quickly expel migrants seeking asylum was allowed to lapse. language? why not give them back to their families, give them to a third state, as required by the geneva a tweet warned it could be chaotic for a while. tens of thousands of migrants conventions, let that state return them back to their are believed to be massed in homeland? they re not doing that, and it northern mexico and two counties begs the question why. issued disaster declarations in you re in new york to brief preparation. the security council on the today there s no evidence of a human rights situation in libya. rush, at least not an immediate a lot of people have not paid it one. this video is probably the best evidence. much attention since gadhafi was on the left you see the border killed. as it was yesterday with but it is a broken state. migrants camped ju