now. we know that these two fighter jets dispatched from norad tracked this plane as it was unresponsive over southern florida, then over the ocean. but those planes had to break off as the plane headed into cuban airspace. keep in mind, airspace is about 12 miles from the coast. so 12 miles out from cuba, the american planes broke off. we're told that cuban military plane, at least one, maybe two, intercepted the plane at that point as it was over cuban airspace but it now looks like it is near the edge of cuban airspace and perhaps potentially headed back into the ocean, over the ocean or over the gulf there. the concern here is that the plane may have run out of fuel. we don't know much, if anything, about the situation onboard. there is widespread speculation among norad as well as the faa that the people onboard are unresponsive. that they may have succumb to hypoxia or there may be a medical emergency on board. if it is hypoxia, it is extremely difficult to concentrate, assuming you are cognizant and awake. if the plane is at 25,000 feet, which was the last report, it's highly unlikely anybody on board is conscious, if in fact they have succumbed to hypoxia. so really it's a ghost plane at this pointing. nobody is able to make any changes in course or direction and it may unfortunately be a situation where they're waiting for this plane to literally run out of fuel and go down. >> in the past there was a payne stewart situation, where a similar situation occurred with a plane where the pilot and the crew -- the pilot and passengers became unresponsive. what is the relationship between hypoxia, i know you're not a medical correspondent, but hypoxia and a situation like this. are we talking with cabin depressurization. just explain that a little bit more. >> exactly. it's a situation where because of maybe a leak in the fuselage they have lost air pressure inside the cabin. once you go to 10,000 feet and climb above 10,000 feet, incrementally you begin to lose consciousness. this may not be a situation where the people on board realized that they had any sort of a problem at all. it's not clear at all if they knew that they were losing air pressure or if in fact they did lose air pressure, cabin pressure, however. that's the leading theory because this plane has been unresponsive. >> and cory herbert is joining us as well. i want to dig into this question of hypoxia and how it might happen. is it the case, as tom costello just mentioned, that the pilot and the passengers on board wouldn't even know it was happening to them? cory? >> what happens is that when you start having the high altitudes and the air becomes very thin, you have no idea why you start to feel very light-headed. when you start to feel light-headed, the oxygen levels are so low, your body becomes acidotic. the acid will build up in your blood and you will faint. once that happens, you will become unresponsive and there's nothing that can be done. you mentioned the payne stewart case. as an avid golfer, everybody was horrified as you have to watch payne stewart's plane crash that way because there's nothing that you can do. when you have a leak in the air -- i mean in the airplane through a window or something we don't know, then you literally succumb from lack of oxygen, which is the official name hypoxia. >> joy, we should point out another element that's actually quite interesting and fascinating, and that is that once this plane entered cuban airspace, the united states, of course, and cuba are still at loggerheads and yet there is this communication as relates to aviation safety and maritime safety. keep in mind the cuban government, the military shot down two private planes in the late '90s, brothers to the rescue. four pilots were killed. these pilots were trying to help people who were trying to escape cuba. so there is this animosity. and yet in this case it would appear that the cuban government thus far has allowed this plane to traverse its airspace. we are led to believe that they are also of the opinion that there's been some sort of an emergency onboard this plane. that the plane has no ill intent towards cuba and as a result in fact they have let the plane fly on. i should also let you know that air force pilots reportedly could see the pilot unconscious and slumped over inside this cockpit. >> and tom, just really quickly, if in fact the plane does traverse out of cuban airspace, would it be then the case that u.s. pilots, fighter pilots, would then resume tracking the plane or what would be the protocol then? >> once it's in international airspace, i think it's safe to presume that the u.s. coast guard and perhaps those f-15s might re-engage or other fighter planes might be engaged. but the coast guard and whatever presence they have out in those waters would try to keep tabs on this plane and you might also expect norad is continuing to track the plane as well. can i just ask the doctor, though, i'm curious, once you -- let's assume the plane begins to lose any altitude whatsoever. if it then falls back towards 10,000 feet, will these people regain consciousness or at this point is it too late? >> well, you know what, it really all depends on how long they were at 25,000 feet and hypoxic, because your blood ph is about 7.4. that's where it needs to stay. as you are hypoxic, your blood ph will drop to 7.35, 7.3. when that happens, you become unresponsive. so if they are feeling a little squirrely, feeling a little, you know, agitation, feeling some nausea and they go back to 10,000 feet, then sure, they would be able to regain their wits about them. however, if they were at that sustained 25,000 feet for too long, no, at that point your body is not able to withstand those low blood phs which comes from the hypoxia. >> and i want to bring in jim tillman, a former pilot who is on the phone. i want to go to that very pointing. if in fact the people in this plane, the pilot and others in the crew, do not regain consciousness, never regain consciousness, what is the protocol? are we talking about simply allowing the plane to ditch into the ocean? in theory the plane could also be over land. what is the protocol? >> right now i'm not sure there is one that has been announced, joy. this happens so rarely that it's not something that is necessarily a part of the protocol of norad or any other nation. this is an emergency that the aviation industry is aware of and they know this is not a threatening situation to anybody, it's just a terrible tragedy. i really feel it's unlikely that they will regain consciousness, no matter how low they go at this time because they have been up there a very long time. >> but jim, as a pilot, is there any training for the eventuality that this could happen, cabin depressurization. it may be rare, but it does happen. are pilots trained in any way to notice the signs of hypoxia, to notice the light-headedness, to take any action, to maybe turn on auto pilot. is there any training at all that pilots receive as part of their hours of flight training for this kind of an eventuality. >> yes. for quite some time the air force, the navy and other military operations have actually presented this kind of a situation to pilots in training so that they would recognize something. however, i can tell you that in commercial aviation, it's a matter of such significance that there are audible signs. you will hear a sound and you will also at a point the mask for the passengers will automatically drop out of the ceiling because you do need to get that oxygen as quickly as you can. we're not talking about a very long time for exposure to this. we're talking about minutes. and how many minutes depends on the individual and their health and this and that and the other thing, but this is in my view, we've got an airplane full of people who are not ever going to respond. i think it's all over. >> hey, joy -- tom, in that instance. i know you want to get back in but i want to ask you on the other side, is there a protocol for how you would guide that plane down? the plane can't be allowed to drift wherever it's going to go because it could be over land, it could be over people. >> i'm sorry, as you're speaking i'm answering a quick conferee to make sure i've got the latest information here. there is no way that anybody can intervene at this pointing. i mean this plane is on its own and there's no way at all that anybody might be able to stop whatever is going to happen. that's why i asked the doctor if there was any chance at all should this plane descend again, whether anybody on board would regain consciousness. i do think it's important to note that those f-15s intercepted the plane and the reason for that is if they had thought that there was any threat, that the plane posed a threat, especially to a heavily populated area, then they have the authority to shoot the plane down, although that has never happened before. since 9/11, there has been this understanding that the military could take action if necessary to stop a threat, but it's not happened. but you can imagine that the cubans were enthusiastthinking thing. if this plane got anywhere near a populated area and they believed it was at risk of going down near that populated area, the cubans themselves might authorize shooting down the plane. at this point it looks like the plane has now traversed cuba completely and is back out over the open ocean. >> hold on, everybody, nbc's mary murray is going to join us on the phone from havana. we understand that cuba fighter jets have been scrambled to track the plane. tell us what you know from there. >> reporter: yeah, hi, joy. you know, there's very, very little information here in cuba. we're not hearing anything from official sources. unofficially, though, the social media and a number of people who are close to the cuban government, they're reporting that the plane is over cuban territory in an area that's hundreds of miles, though, east of havana, over areas that are pretty agricultural. the provinces are called las tunas and comaguay. it's about 25,000 feet over cuban territory, that they have been unable to make contact with the plane. they're saying, quote, it's out of control. no one is in control over cuban territory. and it came in clearly from u.s. territory. we just spoke to someone over here at the havana airport and there are about six flights today, commercial flights from miami. none of those flights have been affected. none of the flights in havana, there's three airports here, they're all flying on schedule. in fact the last flight today heading to miami is at 3:00 p.m. and we're told that it is on time. there has been no interruption at all of flights between the u.s. and cuba. >> and, mary, have there been any evacuations on the ground? are there any contingencies being made in case this plane does drift over or come down over land? >> reporter: we have heard that there have been none. there have been no evacuations at this point. >> it does look like it's headed towards jamaica at this point, to be candid. based on that realtime air traffic control tracking that we've got up on the air, it would appear that it's cleared cuban airspace and it's now headed towards jamaica. >> and so, tom, in that eventuali eventuality, would the united states pick it back up because then it's over the airspace of another one tree but one we have a relationship. >> we certainly have a better relationship with jamaica and you can imagine air traffic control and norad and not only the coast guard with jamaica to see what, if any, assistance they can offer. >> jim tilmon, based on the size of the plane, the model of the plane, is there any way to predict the eventual path? obviously it's not in control but literally if all we're left to do is just watch this plane go wherever it's going to go and there's no human intervention that can be made? >> to the best of my knowledge there's no protocol, no procedure, no activity that would correct that situation. what will happen is the auto pilot on that aircraft will continue to keep it at altitude and flying the same direction and heading that it had set some time ago until the auto pilot realized that it was losing power and it would eventually just click itself off. i don't anticipate this airplane would nosedive. i anticipate it would make a very gradual descent actually until it made contact with the surface. >> joy, i do have a little more information. >> go ahead, tom. >> as we have said before, and you're looking at the model plane there, a tbm, thomas baker michael, tbm 700. this was a 2014 model we are hearing. 2014 malls. and it has a nautical range of about 1583 miles. well, at this point we're somewhere in the neighborhood of 1400, 1450 miles so far is what this plane has flown. 1583 miles plus reserves is what we're told it has on its range. so it may still have another 150, 200 miles potentially of room to fly here. >> and then that means that we can essentially say that in a radius of 150 to 200 miles, that's where they figure it might drift. then i'm wondering if you do see protocols over land over jamaica and other countries where it still over their airspace. hold on a second, we're going to take a quick break and come back with continuing coverage. a plane that has lost contact or that officials of lost contact with. we'll continue to follow this and we'll be right back. this is holly. her long day of outdoor adventure starts with knee pain. and a choice. take 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. onward! think the tree we carved our names in is still here? 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(whistling) and we are back following news of a plane that has lost contact with ground control and is now drifting somewhere near jamaica. tom costello, our nbc aviation industry analyst, tom, give us the latest. what do we know about where this plane is now. >> the coast guard says it has dispatched a c-130 from clearwater, that's quite a bit of a flight, clearwater has taken off in search and following this unresponsive plane. as you know, this plane took off earlier this morning from rochester, new york, bound for, we believe, naples, florida. it never arrived. actually it continued flying at 25,000 feet and they have not been in contact, in communication with the pilot since about 10:00 a.m. or so. so we're now looking at four and a half hours since then. we believe that the plane is a relatively new plane about, a 2014 model, we're told, with a range of somewhere in the neighborhood of 1583 nautical miles, plus reserves. it is getting close to the end of that reserves -- of those reserves right now. the plane in a straight line, as you can see, flying off the coast of florida. as it approached cuban airspace -- first of all, as it was unresponsive, norad scrambled two f-15s to intercept the plane, hoping to determine if there was a problem and then as it approached cuban airspace, the f-15s broke off, of course, given the fact that cuban is obviously still kind of a hostile country to the united states. as it entered cuban airspace, we're led to believe that the cuban military may have intercepted the plane, but now it appears that the plane is very close to jamaican airspace. again, the air force pilots on the united states side reporting that it looked like the pilot of this plane was unresponsive and slumped over the controls. the working theory right now is that hypoxia may have set in. that's a condition in which the plane is at altitude at 25,000 feet and if you don't have a pressurized cabin, then you quickly lose air pressure, obviously, and, therefore, first of all, you lose cognitive abilities, the ability to think clearly, and then you become unresponsive and unconscious. that is the leading theory now since this plane has, as you know, been flying since early this morning and is now at the end of its -- what would appear to be the end of its fuel reserves and headed over open water and very close to jamaica at this point. again, a coast guard c-130 dispatched from clearwater but that is a long way to go. candidly, the problem here is there is no way to stop the inevitable. the inevitable at this point would appear that this plane is going to run out of fuel and, unfortunately, crash. >> all right, tom costello, stay with us. i want to bring in anthony roman, an aviation analyst. so tell us a little bit more about this plane. we were talking a little about it in the break. give us a little more detail about this plane. >> this is an extremely modern aircraft. it houses a fully jet engine with a propeller on the end of it also known as a turbo prop. it's fully pressurized, fully computerized and is often referred to as a personal or small corporate airliner. it has redundant systems simply to protect the pilot and the passengers. in this particular case, i would guess that this pressurization problem was probably insidious. in other words, it occurred over a long period of time, was virtually imperceptible, everyone fell asleep and then probably expired. >> and dr. corey herbert, who i believe is still with us, this problem of hypoxia, it is rare obviously, but over a long period of time, as anthony roman just explained, people would then not realize what was happening, including the pilots? >> exactly. and, see, you have tol always remember that when you're on an airplane usually you're doing some work or talking to people. over time, if this plane was at 25,000 feet and had a very small leak, then the pilot would start to feel very odd and feel a little twitchy. but at the same time if it was over a long period of time, it may be imperceptible and it's definitely going to be imperceptible to the people on the plane because in their wildest dreams they would never think that they're starting to feel tired because of a lack of cabin pressure and so hypoxia would set in very, very slowly. they would never even know and recognize the symptoms. now, when i look at the time frame that we have more information on how long these people have been in this plane and it's been -- and it's been unresponsive, then it's almost impossible for these people to live now at low blood phs like that because of hypoxia. it's very difficult to do that, if not impossible. >> i do believe tom costello has new information for us. tom, what do you know? >> first of all, what he just said is critical. he does not believe it's possible that these people are alive any more, not just unconscious, not alive. we are told by our producer who is in cuba that in fact when the cuban air force went up to intercept the planes, that the pilots were unresponsive. we know that now and our own jim miklaszewski at the pentagon is reporting that those two air force f-15s that broke off communication -- or broke off the chase, rather, with the plane as it approached cuban airspace, that they have reintercepted the plane. they circled around cuba. you can imagine an f-15 can move pretty quickly. circled around cuba, now resuming the case south of cuba. those two f-15s have picked the plane up as it exited cuba's territorial airspace and it continues to fly at 25,000 pointing. so to the doctor's pointin, no indication whatsoever that anybody on board is alive or able to control the plane. >> anthony, obviously there would be some form of a crew. there would be more than one person in the cabin. would it be the pilots and crew or pilots and passengers. >> well, it could be pilots and a flight attendant, it could be pilots and passengers and a flight attendant, one simply doesn't know. it should be in the instrument flight plan. but the pilots are trained to recognize insidious hypoxia, that's hypoxia that occurs over a long period of time. the first symptom is that you are happier than you've ever been in your life. you start to get giddy. when you feel this way, the first thing you're supposed to do is look at your nail beds. if they are turning blue, check the pressurization system, descend to a safe altitude, generally believed to be under 15,000 feet. that would be an emergency descent. they'd drop their landing gear, drop their flaps, reduce the power and head on down. it should only take a couple of minutes. >> jim tilmon as a former pilot as well, that is the question for people who fly, who something like this is really alarming. the question of people not being able to realize they are becoming impaired. i'm wondering if flight crews, even those who work in this private sector, are trained to notice that the pilot may be gidier than ever, that the pilot may be behaving strangely. are crews trained to know that? >> well, i don't know the type of training that they would have for that particular type of aircraft or that operation. my experience with this, and i have had hypoxia before, i can tell you that there is absolutely nothing that you feel, nothing that you know until you're in trouble. until you're in trouble. once you get there, your ability to do something about it on your own is very limited. again, i go back to the time involved. you know, this does not have to be a long length of time. they climbed to 12,500 feet and above or 25,000 feet. by the time they leveled off there and levelled off without oxygen, the timing is not something like hours or whatever else, we're talking minutes here. so that is why it's an emergency descent out of a commercial airplane and those masks drop down. you slap those things on, the crew is going to dive to about 10,000 feet. that's an emergency descent. we have special coding and training and everything else to get down to breathable air right away because a lot of people will not be able to make it very, very long at all. i'd say 12 minutes, 14, i don't know. >> let's take another break. we will stay with this story. a plane that is now essentially just drifting potentially those onboard suffering from hypoxia. we'll stay with the story. let's take a break and we'll be right back. ♪ [ female announcer ] when the pressure's on... only secret offers clinical strength invisible solid and clear gel with 100% odor protection. secret clinical strength. with 100% odor protection. this is holly. her long day of outdoor adventure starts with knee pain. and a choice. take 6 tylenol in a day or just 2 aleve for all day relief. onward! i am so noh my gosh...now, it's not even funny. driver 1 you ready? 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(yawn) (ding!) toaster strudel! more fruit in the filling, ya? mmm! ya! warm, flaky, gooey, toaster strudel! now, with more fruit! and we are continuing to follow the story of an unresponsive tbm-700 plane now drifting somewhere over jamaica or thereabouts. tom costello, what do we know now? >> well, we've got a couple of new pieces of information. again, this plane still not responding at all. we are -- our affiliate in rochester is reporting that the plane belongs to a rochester real estate developer by the name of larry glazer, who is also working on a $59 million plan to redevelop the former midtown plaza there in rochester. keep in mind the type of plane we're discussing is a tbm-900. we have been trying to independently confirm whether he's on the plane and have not been able to do that at all. also jamaica, the country, is telling us that in fact they have now scrambled two aircraft, a helicopter and a fixed wing aircraft to the area where the plane is -- where the unresponsive aircraft is heading. jamaica, as you might expect, does not have any sort of a formal air force with jets at all, so this is really a rescue, search and rescue type of response at this point. and the plane, as you can see, is now -- it would appear by this realtime tracking is now over jamaican airspace or very close to it. as we've said, those two air force f-15s from the united states circled around cuba, kind of circumventinged cu ee eed cu sp space and are back near this plane and very near jamaican airspace. the pilot has not responded since 10:00 a.m. according to the faa. those two air force planes, reportedly the pilots saw that the pilot of this plane was unresponsive or slumped over the controls and the working theory, again, is that hypoxia may have set in and he or she is unable to communicate and perhaps at this point may not even be conscious or may not be alive. and so there is really no way to intervene. this plane will eventually run out of fuel, we believe, within the next 100 miles or so, maybe 200 miles, and unfortunately crash in the ocean. if it has been cruising at 25,000 feet and then crashes into the ocean, the chances for survival would be very, very slim indeed. >> very tragic. anthony roman, we were talking a little bit more about the plane in the break. give us a little more detail about the plane, what may, just speculating, could have caused the kind of cabin pressurization that would lead those onboard to suffer hypoxia. you mentioned also that this could be just one pilot, not necessarily a pilot and co-pilot. >> right. the aircraft is rated for single pilot operation. that pilot has to undergo special training and special air examination and a flight test to qualify for single pilot operation, so they're fully qualified to operate it. the problem with that is, in an emergency, there's no help in the cockpit. you're alone. you're on your own. however, with regard to the pressurization problem, it could be a number of factors. there can be an insidious leak in the fuselage. if you look at an airplane, it's really a tube. the tube has openings. the doorway, several other openings. if there's a leak in any of those, it can create a pressurization problem. same thing in the piping in the system where the pressurization bleed air is circulated from the engines. it's the engines that help produce the pressurization in the aircraft. in this case there's one engine. it's a jet engine with a propeller, but it's a very reliable engine. second or third, there's a controller in which the pressurization is managed. they set it for the particular altitude. in some aircraft that's automated. that controller itself could have failed. so there's a number of reasons it can happen, including the pilot missetting it or interfering with it. >> but this plane gets a once-over before it takes off to just make sure that there isn't any sort of pre-prescribed problem. >> well, this aircraft is corporate owned. it is owned and purchased new by 51 lima golf llc. that's 51 lgllc. its registration number is 900 kilo november. so the pilot is a private pilot. he has to be a commercial pilot, but he's flying a noncommercial aircraft that's owned by a corporation. so the training he has to undergo could be a little bit less. and is he as diligent as an airline pilot or a commercial pilot on a scheduled or carrier type service? depends on the pilot. >> dr. corey herbert, it turns out that you have been in this situation on a flight where hypoxia has set in, even on yourself. tell us about that experience and what obviously -- clearly you survived it, so what happened? >> when you're on a plane and you start having symptoms of hypoxia, no person, unless you're really medically trained or you've been trained by the aviation board for you to know that you're having hypoxia. so i'm sitting on a plane and i'll never forget this. everybody started feeling a little bit -- a little weird. everybody started feeling a little giddy and odd. so i looked at my nail beds. the young fellow that's talking there right now with the aviation experience, it made perfect sense. i looked at my nail beds and they looked a little blue. and so i notified the flight attendant, who then notified the pilot and said, look, you know, something is not right here. and when she notified him, they said you know what, let's check our instruments. when they checked those instruments, they realized that there was a faulty instrument that wasn't picking up the fact that the plane was losing the pressurization. and so at that point we had seven passengers on that plane, we dropped to 10,000 feet and everybody was absolutely fine, including the flight attendant and the pilot. but if i had not known that being a trained medical professional, then i don't know what could have happened to that plane. so that's the kind of thing that will happen in realtime and that's why it's happening to this plane. people don't know, and i think this is a real wake-up call for people to understand what's actually happening. >> let's go back to tom costello. >> the associated press saying this plane has now crashed on the island. again, jamaican authorities saying this unresponsive plane has crashed on the island. that according to the associated press, which is quoting jamaican authorities. so this would be at about the point, as we've been discussing, when we would expect the fuel to run out. and it was traveling at 25,000 feet. as you can see from that track, it never deviated. it was a straight line out of rochester and never even made a turn as if it was going to naples, which in fact was its destination. never made the turn. intercepted by two f-15 planes. they chased it all the way, trying to engage the pilot. chased it all the way to cuban airspace. they then broke off the chase because they were approaching cuban airspace. we're told cuban authorities then picked up the chase and the plane. unresponsive to cuban authorities. they decided to let the plane continue to fly. they were confident the plane posed no threat to a the plane traversed the island of cuba, came out the south side, was picked up again by u.s. air force f-15s and as it approached jamaica, u.s. authorities contacted jamaican authorities. they now report the plane has crashed on the island itself. so despite all the efforts to contact this pilot or pilots onboard the plane, no success whatsoever. the leading theory, again, is that hypoxia set in. that one or both pilots onboard succumbed to it and were unable to control their plane or for that matter were completely unresponsive or unconscious or worse. just to repeat, this was a socata tbm-900 plane. we believe it was a 2014 model, so a new plane, relatively new, and owned, we are led to believe, by our affiliate in rochester, by a name by the name of larry glazer, who is the ceo of buckingham properties up in rochester and also is very much involved in tbm planes and a pilots association. we don't know if he was on board that plane. we just are told by our affiliate that larry glazer owned the plane. back to you. >> and, tom, do we know and i guess you're going to continue to get information in, whether or not jamaican authorities evacuated any areas? obviously they then were also watching the plane, escorting the plane as best they could. were any areas evacuated and do we know whether or not the plane came down in a populated area, a rural area or do we have any information on that? >> i've not gotten any of that yet but we're efforting that with jamaica and our producers and reporters who are in that vicinity as well to find out if there was any damage, if anybody on the ground was in any way near this crash. we simply don't know yet. jamaica, of course, is a dense jungle island. it has beautiful resorts but there's also a lot of it that is very remote. >> and our rochester affiliate has confirmed that larry glazer was on the plane. you are looking at a picture of the actual plane. before we were showing an approximation but that is the actual plane. anthony roman, these planes, we're accustomed to the notion of the black box. will we be able to reconstruct what happened to this plane from the wreckage? >> we will, depending on whether there was a post-impact fire and that is very unlikely in this situation simply because there was no fuel. but no, these planes do not have black boxes. they do have global positioning navigation systems which are much more accurate than the civilian versions. so if they're left intact, if any of that, they can reconstruct a lot of the flight from there, from the radar plots and from the wreckage itself if there are any surviving pieces of the pressurization system, they'll be able to come to a determination. >> and dr. corey herbert, such a tragedy for the families of those onboard the plane. would it be apparent, then, because obviously once autopsies are performed, et cetera, that in fact hypoxia can be confirmed as the cause of what happened on this flight? >> absolutely. once the autopsies are done, you can definitely tell what was the cause of death. if hypoxia was, there will be certain changes in the lungs, certain changes in the brain that will actually let you know what the cause of death was. if it was hypoxia, we will know. >> i want to go to you as well, jim tilmon, who is still with us on the phone. we don't know yet, our rauchs affiliate, whec has confirmed that an airport staff worker says that they saw larry glazer board the plane that has reportedly now crashed. he did not know whether glazer was a pilot or a passenger. in a case like this where we do believe that it was hypoxia that caused it, you know, it's hard to say now that we know these folks are all now deceased, but is there anything that a lone pilot might have done or become aware of without a co-pilot or crew member to pointing it out th them. >> to all of a sudden look up and your pilot seems to be a little wacko is not part of the training i've had. the training i've had is you just don't know that it's happened until it's happened and by that time you're really in deep trouble and the chances that you can come out of this understanding what's going on are pretty unlikely. that's why most airplanes that are pressurized have a warning system. that's one of the things i wanted to ask questions about. i don't know enough about that specific aircraft and particularly this new model. so what kind of a warning system it has that lets the crew know that we have a pressurization problem. without a warning system of some kind, some mechanical device, something that makes a sound, something that drops a mask or something else, the chances that most people would be able to determine that that's what's going on are unlikely. >> we're going to take a quick break. i already see anthony roman is beginning to do some research and we're going to try to get an answer to that question because that is a very good question, jim, whether some electronic device would automatically potentially be able to warn pilots and warn passengers and crew that depressurization is taking place. let's take a break, we'll come back and reset and continue to follow this story. 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>> we're now told by the jamaican military, they're refining their comments to say it did not crash on the island but rather in the ocean. this plane went down about 14 miles northeast of port antonio. so in the ocean, which would of course coincide with what our map is suggesting the last known track of the plane was still over the ocean and the jamaican authorities also said that they have sent an aircraft or two to investigate. as we know, the united states has a c-130 dispatched from clearwater, florida, to try to track this plane. those two air force f-15s which were tracking the plane certainly would do all they can to pinpoint the location of the crash and dispatch any search and rescue personnel and equipment that may be in the vicinity. i suspect jamaica may be the closest, rather than the u.s. coast guard. but at this point it would be a race to the scene to see whether in fact anybody survived. it would appear unlikely given the fact that the plane continued to fly at 25,000 feet, according to the air force, all the way until the very end, until the plane appeared to run out of fuel. and again, those air force pilots also reporting that they believed that the pilot of this plane was slumped over inside the plane and unresponsive. so whatever happened here, it happened it would appear hours ago because they last communicated with this pilot at 10:00 a.m. eastern time. so you're now talking about coming up on five hours ago. ever since, this plane was unresponsive, flying at 25,000 feet and the theory is, the working theory is without any air pressure or cabin pressure, which of course can lead to hypoxia and death. so this looks like an absolute tragedy that has unfolded here off of the united states coast. then over the airspace of cuba and then off of the coast of jamaica. >> tom, as of now we don't have a flight manifest to understand the magnitude of the tragedy, how many people may have been onboard that plane and whether or not the gentleman that we believe owned the plane was a pilot or a passenger. we don't have that yet? >> we have reached out to those individuals but have not yet heard back, trying to confirm the number of people who might have been onboard. this is a seven-seater. it is a socata tbm-900 plane and a relatively new one at that, having come off of the line, we believe, in 2014. and we believe that the owner of the plane is, according to our affiliate in rochester, is larry glazer, who is a real estate developer and also an enthusiast with tbm planes. but we do not know whether he was on this plane. we don't know who was on the plane at this point. >> i want to come back to anthony roman. we were talking about the plane itself and jim tilmon asked a really good question, which is whether or not there is some sort of automatic system, something electronic. putting aside the human inability to recognize the onset of hypoxia could itself recognize that something was happening. if the producers could put up the interior of the plane, what you were showing me on your ipad before, anthony, which shows the instrumentation of the plane. there it is. so explain to us what we are seeing there on the screen. >> these are the computerization -- the panels that the pilot uses to fly and navigate the plane and also monitor all of the systems on the plane, including pressurization. now, it's very interesting, in this particular model, the 900 model, which is the 2014 model, brand new, it does have an automatic pressurization system. so since it's brand new, my bet is going to be that there's some problem with that system, perhaps an inherent design problem or a problem with this particular aircraft maintenancewise. >> so jim tilmon, that is the answer to your question, there is instrumentation on the plane that should have kicked in to alert the pilots necessarily that there was something going wrong. but your view, i'm assuming, is short of that, there really wasn't any way for this pilot to know what's happening. actually, before we get an answer from you, jim. >> i'm sorry to say that but i really still believe that there should be some kind of an audible signal. >> i'm sorry, jim, i have to interrupt you because we do have breaking news. tom costello, what have you got? >> okay, joy. cnbc, our partners in business, are reporting now that they have spoken with ken glazer, the son of larry glazer, and that the son confirms to cnbc that onboard only two passengers. larry glazer and jane glazer, that according to their son, ken, who spoke to cnbc. as we have been reporting, larry glazer is the ceo of buckingham properties, a real estate firm, development firm in the rochester area and he's also very, very active with the tbm aircraft. and we believe that he just bought this aircraft recently. as we have said, it's a 2014 model. so that confirmation now coming from the family of larry glazer, that according to son ken, who spoke to cnbc, larry and jane glazer were the only two people onboard this plane that now we believe has gone down. as long as i have you, i wanted to also make one more pointing and that is our pentagon correspondent, jim miklaszewski, reporting that norad lost the radar track of this plane as it flew toward jamaica. the f-15s not able to reconnect with the unresponsive plane because they were also running out of fuel. and so as we've said, jamaican authorities now reporting that the plane went down in the ocean about 14 miles or so north of the island. >> i will also note for our viewers that the gentleman that you did see there on the left of your screen was larry glazer, those were images of him. it does seem to be an incredible family for this family. jane and larry glazer confirmed by their son to be on the plane. jim, i interrupt you. there is instrumentation on the plane that could alert to the potential depressurization of the cabin but you were saying there should be more than visual. >> absolutely. the light that comes on in the panel or whatever else, that's why there's a loud horn that signals that you have a problem on a commercial airplane. there's no way that you can miss it because it's such a critical part of the safety system. so i'm concerned to know whether or not that system does exist to that extent on this particular airplane. >> anthony, if in fact these systems are there as jim tilmon was saying, if there's an audible system as well as a visual system, does that say a potential failure of that system? >> it would suggest that. however, depending on how the system was set. i was just looking at an image of the pressurization and environmental system on this particular model aircraft and it has two settings. one is off, one is automatic. so i'm going to bet that there was an audible system on this computerized panel. my staff is currently looking into that now. hopefully we'll have it before the end of the show. >> obviously it was too late to save this gentleman and his wife. again, we do have video showing larry glazer, a real estate developer, the ceo of the buckingham properties group in rochester. that is an image of him and tom costello reporting that cnbc, our affiliate, is saying that they have spoken with his son, ken glazer, and that jane and larry glazer were the only two passengers, the only two aboard that plane. tom, we now know that the loss of life is limited to two people, that this plane did not crash over jamaica, there was no loss of life on the ground there. any updates that you have about whether or not this plane was -- had any previous safety issues, whether or not it was indeed a brand new plane. >> we have no evidence of that what so vr. it was a brand new plane and this is a plane that many people absolutely love with a very long range. keep in mind this plane flew from rochester, new york, was supposed to go to naples and continued flying all the way essentially to jamaica. so that gives you a sense of the capabilities of this aircraft. it has -- we don't know how full the tank was, but we know that the range on this plane is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1500 or so, 1580 nautical miles and then on top of that reserve, so this plane certainly flew a long way. it's an absolute tragedy, but, you know, there is -- there is also this interesting geopolitical element to it insofar as the united states and cuban authorities very quickly were communicating with each other. the united states trying to convey to cuba that there is no suggestion that this plane poses a threat to cuba, that there appears to be a medical emergency onboard of some sort, harking back to the late '90s when cuban mig fighter jets shot down two private planes flown by brothers to the rescue, those people who were working to essentially try to get more cuban refugees safely out of cuba. mig fighter jets shot them down. you can imagine that was on the minds today of u.s. authorities as they conveyed to cuban authorities this plane, which is flying towards your airspace, we believe is involved in a medical emergency an there's nothing else to it. cuban authorities allowed this plane to fly right over its airspace. they attempted to communicate with it. had no success in doing so. the plane entered, then exited cuban airspace. as we know as it was approaching the coast of jamaica, it appears to have gone down in the ocean. >> a pure tragedy, because this is a plane that is relatively safe. you were just showing me something about that. >> yes. i found and forwarded to me by my staff is a pressurization checklist. now, that checklist would require a sounding of any audible pressurization system. i've just reviewed it. i do not see any audible pressurization system check on this checklist. therefore, my assumption is it's a computer panel warning only. >> yeah. anthony roman, tom costello, jim tilmon, thank you all very much. a tranl de. larry glazer, his wife, jane glazer, appeared to be the only two passengers on this plane that did go down 14 miles off the coast of jamaica. a tragedy and we will continue our coverage here on msnbc. 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