0 >> mark shields gets tonight's last word. the 11th hour with stephanie ruhle starts now. >> tonight, the corruption campaign. the former guy's attempt to pack the justice department and his quest to legitimize his big lie. just how deep it ran on the eve of another major hearing. and it is hard to avoid america's deepening political divide. what can be done to bridge the gap? we will talk to someone with solutions for people over party. plus, biden's push for a gas tax holiday. is it coming, and will it help? and in the fight against inflation, are we headed for a recession? as the 11th hour gets underway on this wednesday night. >> that evening once again. i am stephanie ruhle. the january six committee is on the eve of revealing more crucial evidence about a key part of donald trump's plan to overturn the 2020 election. the panel's fifth hearing starts tomorrow afternoon at 3 pm eastern. it will focus on how trump himself pressured his own top justice officials to go along with his plan, and how they repeatedly resisted. trump also tried to install a loyalist to leave the department of justice, a man name jeffrey clark, who backed his false claims of fraud. former attorney general, jeffrey rosen, the man tried -- along with his former deputy, richard donahue, and another official, steven angle. we heard from donahue at yesterday's hearing. in a taped deposition, he told the story of a january 6th 2021 oval office meeting, where -- january 3rd, excuse me, oval office meeting, where he threatened to resign if trump made jeffrey clark attorney general. >> the president said, suppose i do this, suppose i replace him with jeff rosen, with jeff clark, what do you do? i said sir, i would resign immediately. there is no way i am serving one minute under this guy. jeff clark. >> donahue also told the committee the doj never found any credible evidence of fraud that could change the outcome of the election. we have also learned the panelists postponing hearings that were originally planned for next week into later july. >> we've taken in some additional information. that information is going to require additional review by staff and the committee that we did not have when we had initial planning for the committee. >> that new evidence includes never before seen footage from a documentary by british filmmaker, alex holder. he is expected to sit for a private deposition with the committee tomorrow morning. he spent time interviewing trump and his family before, and after january 6th. nbc news has obtained images from the upcoming documentary. we can see him with trump at the white house, and talking with the president's daughter, and senior adviser, ivanka. nbc news has also confirmed a new york times report that ivanka spoke with a filmmaker in december of 2020 about the election and she said her father should, quote, continue to fight until every legal remedy is exhausted. but here is the thing, the times actually points out that her comments reflect a very, very different tone, then the testimony she gave to the january 6th committee. as the panel's investigation and hearings continue, there are also new concerns about security. the washington post reporting the number of violent threats against members of the committee have increased over the last 24 hours. the paper says all committee members are likely to receive security detail. the post also reporting that the justice department is expanding its investigation, and this is really important, into that fake electors plot. fbi officials confirmed to the post that subpoenas have now been issued in several states. we have a lot to cover tonight, boys and girls, so let's get smarter with the help of our lead off panel, geoff bennett, joins us. chief correspondent for pbs news hour, and political contributor, barb mcquade, a better in federal prosecutor and former u. s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. she worked with the department of justice when biden transition, and is currently a professor at the michigan school of law. and neal katyal is here, veteran, and former solicitor general during the obama administration who has argued dozens of cases before the u. s. supreme court. in short, all three guests are brilliant, really and friends of the show, and we are lucky that they are here tonight. what sticks out to you about these new subpoenas in this fake electors scheme? how big of a deal are they? >> i think these subpoenas are important. more on the lower level crime-ing that was going on. so these are subpoenas to people, including high up state party officials, who were making these fake, random slates of electors, and so on. you know, the whole plot here was trump thought that by naming alternative slates of electors, that he could cast enough uncertainty on to the elections so that pence could handed to him on january 6th. that is not a thing in our u. s. constitution. it is completely made up, and bogus. and the subpoenas go to that, and more to the lower levels side, not really to, was trump behind it, as the evidence showed from the committee yesterday. it is an important step, but it is only a step. >> okay barb, isn't that the issue? so they are going to go for these fake electors. these lower, middle level people, but the fact that they are not going to the root cause of the wrought. we are not talking trump, or his family, or bill barr, it almost seems like january 6th, where yes the rioters are being prosecuted, many are going to jail, that is a good thing, but you are not getting the root cause of all of this. >> well, i would add the word yet, after what you just said. i know it is frustrating to sit back and wait for all of this to take place. but it really does take enormous amount of time for the justice department to not only replicate what's the january 6th committee has done, but to also make sure they have probed every potential defense that donald trump or others could raise down the road. because they have to prove a case of guilt beyond reasonable doubt. and, as we heard merrick garland say back on january 5th, the way they build cases this by taking what is in front of them and building on it one step at a time. so that is what they are doing with these fake slates of electors. they are building, but when you say about getting to the wrought that it's at the core, that is what it takes. it takes building their. so they will talk to these people who sign their name, and ask them why, and they will say because someone told me to. who is that? they will talk to that person. why did you tell these people to sign their names? because we heard it from, whatever it is, the trump campaign? and who did you hear it from? and they will trace it back as far as it goes. and maybe it goes all the way to the top. but they can only get there by investigating, and what they do, stephanie, as they investigate crimes, not people. >> all right. but here is the thing, neil, i see you nodding. yes it takes time. but merrick garland is not going to be in that job forever. let's say republicans win the midterms, winning the next presidency, doesn't all of this investigating fly out the window? >> no. because unless they try to do something radical like try to defund the justice department, or something like that, the justice department investigation goes on past the midterms. it is true that the congressional investigation, which is why i think that the members of congress have put such pressure on themselves trying to wrap up this congressional side of the investigation by september. but, on the big questions, merrick garland is confronting, did the former president commit a crime, a felony, as already one federal judge has said he has, that he has basically up until the end of 2024, at least, for that. obviously, he should not take all of that time, this is one of the most grave crimes, grave events in our nation's history, so i think that speed is warranted here. but he has got time. >> jeff, why are we clearing our schedules for 3 pm tomorrow, what do you think it's gonna go down? >> well look, remember at the outset of these hearings, congresswoman liz cheney said that the committee had uncovered evidence of what she described as a seven-point plot, a seven-point scheme, involving donald trump to overturn the election. tomorrow is the fifth hearing, so when you will hear from the committee, is them detailing the fifth part of this plot. and it was donald trump's attempts to pressure the justice department. pressuring doj leadership to say that there was a fraudulent election when there was none. pressuring the doj to file lawsuits, and effect, acting as the personal law firm of donald j trump, which it was not. according to the evidence, pressuring the doj to send letters to space to promote the integrity of the election, which is rich, given that everything that we now know. and then, when all of that failed, the president then threatening to fire, or replace doj leadership. so, among the people who we will hear from tomorrow, is the former acting attorney general, who along with the white house counsel pat cipollone, if donald trump did move forward with trying to install his loyalist jeffrey clark, the top the doj, to in effect do his bidding, that there would have been mass resignations. so again, the committee will choreographed this hearing in the way that they have done the other ones. they will lay out the hard facts, but then wrap all of that in the personal narrative to make it more compelling. >> neil, while it is a surprise to absolutely no one that trump would launch this pressure campaign, why is it essential for the committee to lay this out? why should we truly understand this part of the story? >> it is an important part of the plot. and a very important part of what donald trump did to our democracy and the rule of law. so, take a step back, the justice department is not like other cabinet ancient seas. it is not like the commerce department, or whatever. it is special, it is relatively apolitical, lady justice is its symbol, blindfolded, and you take that oath, and i saw it twice at the justice department when i was there, and two different administrations, where the attorney generals themselves, the lawyers of the justice department, the korean folks, people like barbara, they take that oath incredibly seriously. so i wasn't democratic administrations, we went hard after democrats. attorney general went hard after democrats, they did not go after republicans. that is -- what trump's justice department did was -- from sessions to matthew whitaker to bill barr, it was a bunch of political people doing trump's bidding. but here is why it is so significant, what is going on tomorrow, even with those folks, they found a line that they could not cross. and they threatened to resign if trump installed jeffrey clark as the acting attorney general, because jeffrey rosen, the current acting attorney general, would not do the bidding of trump. could you imagine how bad you would have to be, just how evil, to get your entire hand picked justice department to resign, to mass resign? that is what happened here. these were not deep state folks. these were trump's own people, his most hard-core supporters, saying no. we cannot do that to the rule of law. they found a line. that is why the story is so important. >> barbara, you have an op-ed coming out tomorrow on msnbc daily, writing about trump and his justice department, and why it is so important to hear from these witnesses. why? >> this was an effort by donald president was trying to lean on every lever, on every small democratic institution to overturn the election. imagine what he was saying to this documentary? >> why did he ever agreed to do this? >> this documentary and does not come from the maga world. he is a british independent documentary filmmaker. why on earth would they say yes to this? >> to live inside the mind of a narcissist, one can only imagine. i do not have a good -- that is a great question for which i do not have a good answer. but it is one of the reasons why the committee is now taking a two-week, potentially two or three-week pause, and we are just going to pour over all of this new evidence to include this documentary, and more information that according to congressman jamie raskin has come from people watching these hearings, and just basically sending in more information. the committee has to go through all of this as they continue these public hearings. >> i want to talk pat cipollone. adam kinzinger spoke about leaving tomorrow's hearings, and the stepped up pressure on the trump white house counsel, pat cipollone. watch this. >> we do want putts to polonia to come in and cooperate more. you are going to see tomorrow, men that did not necessarily want to be out there talking about this stuff, but they understand their oath to the constitution, and the responsibility to the country. we want pads to polonium to come in, and cooperate in a robust way. there is no reason he shouldn't. >> here is why he won't want to. this is trump's boy, barb. >> yes. i think pat cipollone has a potential to be the john dean of this moment. he was there, he was a white house counsel, he knows what is happening, he was the one who uttered that phrase, the murder suicide pact. he was there, and he, as well, threatened to resign along with the justice department officials of trump persisted in replacing the attorney general and sending out these letters. who knows what else he may have been a party to? it sounds like he did the right things, he tried to push trump to stop from some of his illegal impulses, but he could tell an awful lot. to the extent he is relying on executive privilege, we know that the supreme court has already said that the interest and investigating what happened on january 6th over -- outweighs any interest in protecting executive privilege in this instance. so that is a fig leave, he should come forward and do the right thing. >> executive privilege, no dice on this one. i want to change subjects for a really important one, jeff. tomorrow, the senate is set to hold a procedural vote on this gun safety bill. how likely is it to become law? >> it is expected to pass. we have heard from the congressman from connecticut, chris murphy, who really spearheaded the effort from the democratic side. the 14 republican so far who voted to advance legislation, he said that he expects at least on the upper chamber, to move that number up to 15, or 16. so add that to the 50 democrats who will vote in support, even in the house, even though the republican party is actively officially working against this, that means encouraging their members to vote no, i am told that the democrats and other moderate republicans that they do have the votes to move forward. so the expectation is that the vote in the senate either happens tomorrow, late afternoon, early evening, or maybe it pushes into friday, and then from there the house will pick it up in due time, it will head to president biden four is ignition. >> hold on a second, though. mitch mcconnell is supporting this. mitch mcconnell is a yes, and they are whipping other republicans to say no, that does not add up to me. >> it is the difference between the house and the senate. the way that the house is organized, there are more members that represent smaller numbers of people in their district, it was set up this way by the founders. you have more partisanship in the house than you do in the senate. every member of the house is up for reelection this year. the 14, most of the 14 republicans on the senate who are expected to vote in support, most of them are retiring, or they are not up for reelection. so that has a lot to do with it, as well. you have mitch mcconnell over in the senate saying that this does nothing to infringe on the second amendment rights of law abiding citizens and over in the house you have republicans who are talking as if the second amendment is a secret adds scripture. i think that on this issue, on this issue it is a major dividing issue as we well know. even on this particular vote, it is something which republicans -- it is not even, they are not banning assault weapons, they are not raising the age, this is basically common sense stuff that they're trying to do here. >> i don't know. one might say that raising the age limit on air fifteens is common sense as well, but it is a start, and it looks like they have the votes. geoff bennett, barb mcquade, neal katyal, thank you so much for starting us off this evening. coming up, our friend tom nichols is here to discuss what trump super fans are really afraid of. how you truths about the former guy will impact conversations on a divided america. later, we will talk about the director of the group who is starting to bridge the divide, who is starting to find it so much in our politics, and when we can actually do about it. not getting defeated, looking for solutions. the 11th hour just getting underway on a wednesday night. underway on wednesday night.