Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20200921

Other than the fact that i have been unable to so whats the grade, sir . Untreating us fairly, i give ourselves an a. But the grade is incomplete. And ill tell you why. If we come up with the vaccines and therapeutics, then i give myself an a plus. All right. President trump in conversation with bob woodward who last night shared that previously unreleased audio from an interview from late july when the president gave himself that glowing grade. 140,000 americans had lost their lives from the coronavirus. Now, about two months later, the coronavirus death toll in the u. S. Has surpassed 200,000 lives. You know, its its a grading scale i dont think any of us understand or would be comfortable with. I think its a grading scale straight out of trump university. Because we can grade it from the very beginning where he was a liar and admitted he was a liar to the American People. When he had been told by his own people inside the white house, in january, that this was going to be the biggest crisis he faced of his presidency. When his own trade adviser had told him that half a million americans could die. With that information, donald trump was saying that it was one person coming in from china and soon it would go away. Thats not helping you. Thats not helping any american. That would be really that, that would be like george w. Bush continuing to say, after 9 11 hit, that there was nothing to see here. That there was no concern. But he went on. And then he said that it was just 15 people coming in. And that soon that would be down to zero. He lied about china. He said time and again that china was doing a great job. He told bob woodward that china was a great partner and president xi was a great partner and told americans they were being transparent about everything. Now hes claiming that hes being really tough on china. Whats the impact of this . And why did he do it . You know why he did it, he only cares about one thing. He doesnt care about you. He doesnt care about the good of the American People. He certainly doesnt care about our standing across the globe. He only cares about him and his political standings and for him thats measured by the Dow Jones Industrial instead of the number of americans dead. Now we can compare u. S. Death rates with other countries across the globe. And, of course, you know, despite his lies and even if youre in his personality cult, you know hes lying. You just choose to pretend to believe the lies. But the numbers are the numbers and theyll always be the numbers. And its not a coincidence that if you live in wisconsin and you just go across the border or if you live in michigan and you just go across the border, what do you find . You find a country where six people died yesterday of covid. Now, every death is a tragedy. So im not going to say only six people died yesterday in canada. But for a country that was suffering 1,000 deaths just south of there, in the United States, even yesterday, when our death count was down a little bit, over 50 times the number of americans died yesterday of covid than died in canada. You can do all the adjusting you want for population size. We still come out the loser. And donald trump still comes out president of the United States who botched the Biggest Health care crisis of the past century. The biggest economic crisis of the past 80 years. And the biggest political crisis of the past 50 years. So, nobody is giving him an a grading wise, mika. Hes going to try with the Supreme Court now. All he wants is to keep distracting americans and have them forget that 200,000 americans are dead when so many of those americans would still be alive if donald trump hadnt spent the last six months lying to you and to your family. Simple measures could have saved so many of those lives and he led them a different way. Those you touched on not just 200,000 plus souls lost to coronavirus but the other consequential news story were looking at this morning the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg. With us we have reporter Jonathan Lemire. Host of nbcs politics nation reverend al sharpton. Historian and professor jon meacham. Former u. S. Senator now analyst Claire Mccaskill. And nbc news correspondent host of way too early, good morning kasie dc, congratulations on your first show. We have a lot to cover this morning, joe. 200,000 plus people lost to the coronavirus. And also the political discussion surrounding the death of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg. The second woman to serve on the nations highest court died on friday at the age of 87. There will be a bitter political fight to fill her seat on the court. The president says he will nominate a replacement and Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell said the nominee will get a vote. Whats different now from 2016 when Mitch Mcconnell denie deni president obamas selection of Merrick Garland. Mitch mcconnell wrote over the coming days we are all going to come under the tremendous pressure from the press to announce how we will handle the coming nomination. For those of you who are unsure how to answer or forthose of you inclined on giving a nominee a vote, i urge you all to keep your powder dry. There are already two defections, the republicans need four. Senator Susan Collins whos in a tough battle in maine and senator Lisa Murkowski said they oppose a nomination before election day. Meanwhile, senator grassley said in july, if i were chairman of the Judiciary Committee and this vacancy occurred i would not have a hearing on it because thats what i promised the people in 2016. Were also watching senator mitt romney, who has not indicated where he stands. Democrats have warned republicans to follow the pre precedent they set in 2016 when the republicans refused to consider president obamas nominee because it was an Election Year. Mitch mcconnell said he would not give Merrick Garland his he hearing. The day after Ruth Bader Ginsburgs death, senator Lindsey Graham said he is, quote, dead set on confirming whoever trump nominates for the seat. This comes despite multiple times if a vacancy came up in the runup to the president ial election he would hold off on confirmation. If theres a republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term you can say Lindsey Graham said lets let the next president , whoever it might be, make that nomination, and you can use my words against me and youll be absolutely right. Ill tell you this, this may make you feel better but i really dont care. If an opening comes in the last year of President Trumps term, and the primary process has started, well wait until the next election. And ive got a pretty good chance youre on the record. Yeah. Hold the tape. I guess on the record as a liar, which well talk about in just a second. But joe, you know the moment the news broke about the death of Justice Ginsburg, a lot of our friends on the left and the right were calling, first of all, very, very saddened about her death. But secondly, very worried about the election. Our folks, our liberal friends, were worried this would hurt their chances, our republican friends that this was their moment they were having their october surprise. And you said, no, its the other way around, immediately. Why was that . Ill get into that in a second but first i have to talk about Lindsey Graham. Theres a guy i came in with in 1994, a friend of mine, and we we worked closely together in congress. And i was talking to a couple of other friends who are no longer in politics but who are friends of lindsayeys and who came in d theyre so astounded he would lie so openly. Its like, this is a guy we knew and he would lie that blatantly to the people of South Carolina and america, when its on tape. We really cant get our arms around that, we havent been able to get our arms around that for several years now. But its so interesting, Lindsey Graham, was a guy that led the impeachment against bill clinton, and we republicans were so shocked that bill clinton answered in one of his questions before the grand jury, it depends on what the meaning of is is. And oh my god. Oh my god. The National Review and the wall street journal editorial page, we were running around talking about the destruction of the english language,. You start with language and the rest of culture collapses and soon dogs and cats are sleeping with each other and locusts are descending from the heavens eating the flesh off of our skin in d. C. Really, the absolute freak out the republicans had because of bill clinton and his lack of character and the him saying what the meaning of is is. We really did talk about what a horrific moral crisis this was. And Lindsey Graham was at the front of that parade. Lindsey is not deconstructing language there. Lindseys not engaging in moral equivocation. Lindsey is just lying. And hes lying openly and its just like an applebalm says in twilight of democracy, theyre not even trying to hide it from you. Theyre lying openly. It is steve danes by the way, steve danes is doing the same thing in montana do voters like this . No, they hate it more than anything else. I found, and claire with tell you this, if you say to the people, i know youre not going to agree with this, i know youre not going to like this, this is where i stand, if you dont like it vote against me. I did that all the time and the closest anybody got to me in a general election race was 62 to 38 . And i was the first republican elected in my district since reconstruction. People dont like when lindsey lies to their face and its on tape. And he thinks donald trump can get away with this so i can get away with it. But donald trump hasnt gotten away with this. Republicans were crushed in 2017 and local and state and national elections. Republicans were crushed in 2018. The largest vote landslide in the history of midterm elections. Republicans fared horribly in gubernatorial races in 2019. And 2020 is not looking any better. And they keep acting this way. But i you go back to the question on why the second i heard this news i thought, uhoh for republicans. This isnt going to go well for republicans and theyre going to walk right into the trap. Its because of something that senator paul simon of illinois when he retired said. A reporter asked, what was your greatest insight in all your years in politics, and senator simons said, in politics, sometimes when you win you lose. And sometimes when you lose, you win. And ive looked at this from every angle that i can, and theres just no winning hand for the republicans to play here. Now, hear me out. If you ask people if youre prolife, prochoice, youre split down the middle. I think it tilts a little more towards prochoice now. But if you ask do you want roe v. Wade to be overturned, as my grandmother would say, thats a horse of a different color. Poll earlier this year, Kaiser Family foundation, about as nonpartisan as it gets, 75 of americans do not want roe v. Wade overturned. Only 29 do. Of the 29 who do want roe v. Wade overturned, ive got news for the Trump Campaign, those people stayed with you through charlottesville. Those people stayed through you through your your your racist comments about shole countries run by black people. Those people stayed with you even when you were caging children on the border. Those people stayed with you through your worst offenses. Your most inhumane comments. You telling people that they had great genes. You getting crowds to laugh because a man got shot and knocked to the ground. Those people are with you. Where will it hurt you, donald . Among suburban voters, among women, you just look at the polls, among more educated people, those are the people that you need help with the most, that youre going to lose. And guess what, Susan Collins, again going back to my grandma, Susan Collins didnt need this. My grandma would say, i need that like i need a hole in my head. I never really knew what that meant. But Susan Collins needed this like she needed another tough vote. Like, no. This is a nightmare for Susan Collins. Even if she votes against it. This is a nightmare for Corey Gardner. Again, stay with me. Im a guy that voted prolife nonstop. Stay with me, this is just basic politics. Corey had the 29 already. Of suburbs of denver, oh my god, the voting turnout among women and suburbanites in denver. Whoa. Claire mccaskill, this is not this is not Wishful Thinking on my part at all. This is just politics 101. I actually tweeted the night of rbgs death, hey, you know what, pray for her family, okay. And save your hot takes because theyre all wrong. This is a nightmare for republicans. And as somebody said on twitter, im quoting them, not me. Donald trumps just too dumb politically to figure that out right now. Yeah. I was watching kasie congratulations by the way on way too early, and i heard the representative from axios say the fallout for democrats. No. Its the fallout for republicans. Youre exactly right, joe. I remember the sinking sensation in my gut when i heard that kennedy had resigned. Believe me, there are half a dozen candidates for the u. S. Senate that are republican emcouple bents that had the same sinking sensation on friday night. This is not what they need right now. They are the ones that are senators in states where roe v. Wade is going to have major support, along with gay marriage and the aca, so you look at people like Corey Gardner, joanie ernst, thom tillis, Susan Collins, theyre in a tough position. And what makes it tougher is they are now in full display, showing the American People what liars the republicans are. They didnt say in 2016 it had something to do with the party of the president. They didnt say that. The president had been duly elected by the people and they said, no, the people get to decide in november. They didnt say if we were the same party no. Theyre making that up now. Just like graham is making up this is the thing that really killed me about his excuse. He said it was because of what the democrats did to kavanaugh in the confirmation hearings. That tape you just played where he said, hold the tape with goldberg at the atlantic where he said i would not do this. That was after the confirmation hearing. So he already knew what had happened in the confirmation hearing to kavanaugh when he said that. So its unbelievable how stupid he thinks the people he thinks the people of South Carolina are stupid. Its amazing to me. He does. Hes insulting the people of South Carolina thinking they are that dumb they would say this is kavanaugh. Like you said, that guarantee he made to the people of South Carolina, he made that guarantee after kavanaugh. You know, kasie, heres a thing that actually is even, i think, more dangerous for republicans, and claire just touched on it. Yes, the press will talk about abortion and yes, the 10 on the right and left will talk about abortion. But for 75, 80 of americans, the most important issue coming out of this is the fact that another justice added to the Supreme Court by donald trump will kill the Affordable Care act once and for all. Will kill preexisting conditions once and for all. This really is, at the end of the day, if you want to talk about the issue that will matter most if Mitch Mcconnell and donald trump and Lindsey Graham get their really get their hopes and wishes of lying to the American People and pushing this through, this is going to be devastating for millions of americans that depend on the Affordable Care act. Because donald trump and republican attorneys general are trying to take away people preexisting condition coverage and their Health Care Coverage and if another justice gets through, thats whats going to happen. For democrats this should be about health care, health care, health care. And it is, joe. Thats the message Chuck Schumer delivered on a Conference Call yesterday with all of his members. They are focused on this. They know its the message that appeals to the widest range of americans. Even, frankly, a lot of Trump Supporters who dont want to lose coverage for their preexisting conditions. Ive talked to a lot of sources over the last couple of years about this lawsuit that you referenced, theyre set to hear arguments essentially a week after the election, ten days after the election. And a lot of my republican sources have wondered why the Trump Administration has been so focused on this because it is so dangerous. Republicans in congress have not been able to come up with an alternative Health Care Plan. Even when john mccain went down to the senate floor and put his thumb down on the changes that republicans were going to make to obamacare, it wasnt even clear they had a cohesive plan to cover people once they dismantled it. And after that, politically, republicans set it aside. You dont want to be the people that are responsible, and Claire Mccaskill knows this as well as anyone, you dont want to be responsible for taking stuff away from voters. The other piece is, weve been promised a Health Care Plan from the administration for, i think its months now. Jonathan lemire, theres a new deadline it seems every couple weeks, in two weeks the administration is going to have the Health Care Plan out, in another ten days well see a Health Care Plan. But so far crickets what are they going to do when we get to that point and theres no plan . They keep saying theres a plan. Chief of staff mark meadows last week told reporters one was ready to go, its a question of unveiling it. Theres no sense its true and no momentum to release that plan and the democrats in the 48 hours or so after Justice Ginsburgs death made it clear they want it to be about health care. Joe bidens remarks yesterday over the weekend also hit that hard. The democrats are saying that is what the seat is about. And, of course, theyre also pointing to the idea that legal challenges to this election, the result of the 2020 election now would go potentially to a Supreme Court, either 44 with three trump appointees on it. What we know about the politics of this, joe you and i discussed it this weekend and this is firing up the weekends. Act blue the democratic fundraising site had record totals over the weekend, the highest ever came friday night after the death of Justice Ginsburg was announced. The white house is forging forward, the president and his team expect to announce a nominee this week, potentially as early as tomorrow. A trio of female candidates at the of their list. The president in North Carolina saturday night said that, and that led to chants of fill that seat. This is going to electrify the trump base, but those are voters you had. There are some now, those close to the white house are optimistic on this, they feel this can change the race. There are plenty of others who fear this could siphon away votes he has. He has his base but right now that base isnt enough to win. If he rushes to fill that seat as those people said right after Ruth Bader Ginsburgs death, yes, he will excite and he will energize, and he will motivate those maskless wonders that were in the crowd. And yes the 29 of americans that were already with him, will stay with him. 75 of americans who dont want roe overturned, again listen to me if youre thinking that somehow this isnt just a reality. You go inside those numbers, its the very people who donald trump is desperately trying to get back on his side this year, the suburban voters, women, more educated americans, you go into the numbers and the cross tabs and theyre the very people who will run away from him and Mitch Mcconnell and Lindsey Graham as quickly as possible. And by the way, theres another thing about politics jon meacham. Its whos the face of the party. Another thing i said to my democratic friends who were about to engage in another night of political bedwetting when they were calling me and my republican friends who said, oh, this is big. No. Its not just, again, these numbers. But its also whos going to be the face of your party as you go towards the election. Donald trump is toxic enough with ratings Favorability Ratings in the low 30s. Probably the most toxic man in american politics if you look at numbers is Mitch Mcconnell. So the faces of the Republican Party are going to be donald trump and Mitch Mcconnell and Lindsey Graham. I can tell you, there are two of those those two senators, theyre fighting for their lives in their own states. Mitch is in better position than lindsey right now, but these are not the faces you want outfront if youre Susan Collins or Corey Gardner or Martha Mcsally, thom tillis. Purdue in georgia, hes in a tough race in georgia. This is not something that republicans should be hoping for. I cant say it enough. No. And i think if you do what i do for a living and what you moonlight doing sometimes and you think about historical moments you look for periods of time that shed particular periods of time that shed light on a universal theme, the specific that tells the general and were living this right now. And it goes to an apple balms point that you talk about, timothy snyder, whos written about it. This is a really fascinating couple of months here. Its not just fascinating. Its really for people. About whether the constitution itself is, in fact, a durable document when a significant number of people have essentially somewhat quietly not explicitly, but opted out. Thats basically what the Senate Republicans showed us this weekend and their base long ago. I dont want to be a try to be a purist about it, but if youre looking for hypocrisy. If youre looking for a vivid example of why, in october 1964, 77 of americans trusted the federal government to do the right thing some or most of the time, 77 in the month for goldwater and johnson were on the ballot and the reason that number is now 17 , so a fall of 60 points in fewer than 60 years, you dont have to look much farther than what senator mcconnell, senator graham and their colleagues most of their colleagues did this weekend, which was simply a raw assertion of power over principle. And maybe that sounds glib. Maybe it sounds like a homily or some sort of seminar no. But at a certain level youre in this are you in public life to continue yourself in public life, or are you there that is, is that the end . Is that the purpose of being in public life . Or are you in public life in order to be a means to something that is, as senator mccain would say, is a cause larger than yourself. And what we have seen is that senator mcconnell is a present master of the fact that power is absolute. And it doesnt necessarily matter what you do with it. So, you know, we talk about this a lot if when we look back on the trump era what will it all look like. Starting last night, starting friday night to the end, so we had a weekend where we lose cross 200,000 deaths from a pandemic that the president continues to downplay. The death of a Supreme Court justice. You have Vice President biden trying to make this case for decency amidst this madness. This is it. Its all on us. Its on the citizens themselves. Its on the voters who will have to take pains because of the various complications and a corrupt postmaster general. And the president is saying he wants a federal bench that will decide the election for him. You dont have to make this stuff up, you just listen to it. Right . Yeah. And donald trump saying that the election is going to be rigged. Donald trump, of course, asking foreign leaders to step in and intervene. Donald trump when he finds out that the militarys not going to do his bidding on june 1st and beyond attacks them and calls them horrific names that we will not repeat here. And you are right, Mitch Mcconnell revealing once again, but it matters now because so Many Americans are focused on it, Mitch Mcconnell and donald trump and Lindsey Graham revealing once again that power is not a means to an end. Power is the end itself. And it is the antithesis of what i just finished reading tom ricks book coming out called first principle talks about how the founders looked at the greeks and the romans and got inspiration from so much, from greek and roman politicians and philosophers and George Washington said this government that was created, that hamilton and madison helped create with a constitution could not function without leaders with public virtue. It was the roman definition of virtue. If we didnt have leaders that had public virtue, then we were doomed. Thats what a lot of republicans were saying when bill clinton was going through impeachment. Thats what no republicans, other than mitt romney, are saying right now. Reverend al youve been around long enough, ive been around long enough to know how this story ends. I remember back after 9 11 this taxi driver kept attacking the United States and he was just telling me how horrible he was from turkey, he kept telling me how horrible the United States was, he was driving me to jfk so he had an hour and a half to lecture. This was actually when we were in the iraq war. And he kept going and kept attacking and then at the end, i said, listen, if you hate this country so much why are you here . And he said, because in america, its like a hollywood movie. You go through all of these bad things, but in the end, the good guys always win. And for give me for being cynical. He said forgive me for being too optimistic. I just dont think you can lie to voters in South Carolina like Lindsey Graham is. I dont think you can lie to voters in america the way donald trump is right now about the coronavirus. I dont think you can lie to voters in montana like steve daines is, and its all on tape. This isnt opinion. Its all on tape. Theyre just lying because they think the voters in their states and in the country are stupid. Im sorry i still believe in america in the end the good guys win and the bad guys pay for doing things like that. Well, if you wanted a way to exercise and energize the base vote against donald trump and the republicans, you now have it. Because all one has to do is to look at the Supreme Court calendar, Affordable Care act on the calendar, gender equality on the calendar, affirmative action, theyre on the immediate calendar. And say that now donald trump wants to put someone in that seat to reverse all of that. If there was any any reason that people would become energized on the democratic side and those independents that need to be swayed, we just have it because of Donald Trumps amateurist way that he reacted to this opening in in the Supreme Court. By him coming in and saying hes going to ramrod through this, and Lindsey Graham saying, well, forget what i said on tape, even though i said it twice, even though i said it after the kavanaugh hearings, forget what i said, which means i cant believe anything you say in the future which will probably make jamie harris the senator in South Carolina because once you lie to me about one thing, why should i believe you about anything. This e any energizes it. I hope the president does it because it will be his defeat. I didnt meet the cab driver you did, but i read the 37 psalms that said in the end well win. Amen. Amen to that. Lets look now at some of the other stories were following this morning. The devastating wildfires on the west coast continue to spread. The bob cat fire has grown to more than 103,000 acres, making it one of the largest wildfires in Los Angeles County history. The fire is only 15 contained right now. Crews are hoping that lower temperatures and calmer winds this week might give them a chance to get the upper hand on the blaze. Meanwhile, in oregon officials reported more progress in the fight to contain ten major wildfires still burning across the state. 7,500 firefighters are assisting in the effort. Cooler weather, higher humidity and recent rainfall are helping them make progress. The Oregon Office of Emergency Management said the number of confirmed fatalities remains at 9 with five people still missing. Health and Human Services secretary, alex azar has barred the Nations Health agencies, including the fda, from signing any new rules regarding products including vaccines. According to a memorandum the New York Times received, azar said that power is reserved to the secretary. The move further underscores reporting that health and scientific agencies are undergoing a deep politicalization and well have more on this ahead. And you know, Jonathan Lemire, speaking of an applebalm and other people who have written about this. That would be autocrats who are now autocrats in poland and hungary. Thats what they do. They gut the state. They gut the government and they consolidate power as much as possible. Donald trump has made it clear from the beginning he wasnt going to appoint as many people in these agencies and he wants to be a strong man. And now, they have stepped on the fda, stepped on the cdc, and now consolidated it in the hands of a man who is proven himself to be nothing more than Donald Trumps lackey. Think about the early days of the administration, the image of the empty desks at the state department and that tone was set then to your point, that the president had gutted government, turned away expertise and career officials, installed a lot of loyalists and political allies in the agencies. Thats what the Personnel Department of the white house has been focused on particularly the last year or two. And now were seeing it here with the pandemic, with as many of the other headlines we have, the Supreme Court vacancy hard to top. We should note 200,000 deaths is the total america has reached this weekend. Weve been talking for a while, the administration thought their october surprise would be a vaccine. You can add the Supreme Court vacancy to that but theyre still full steam ahead. The president had a number of events in in the last few days, including i believe on friday, touting about the vaccine distribution, he was quoted over the weekend saying a vaccine was moments away. We have shifted from months and weeks. We should fully expect people in the administration are saying there will be a vaccine announcement in the next few weeks prior to the election. Whether thats saying they have one created or ready to be distributed that remains to be seen but its coming and theres a lot of doubt, wide ranging doubt about how safe that would be, the process it would be, and moments like this, what mika read about the hhs streamlining the procedure, to put it kindly, but making this decision simply from the secretary, who answers, of course, to the president. That will do nothing to silence those doubts that a Vaccine Development now and announcement will be purely politically motivated. And is again government by gesture, where donald trump like he made a big statement before the rnc that turned out to be a lie, is going to try to do the same thing before the election and donald trump gutting american democracy and whats been built up through the years, in this case pushing scientists and doctors and medical researchers out of the way for a political hack that will do whatever he tells him and this reminds me of a quote from hannah errant that she wrote, quote, the most talented are pushed aside by autocrats and replaced with fools is still the best guarantee of their loyalty. You look at james mattis pushed aside, Rex Tillerson pushed aside, dan coates pushed aside. You look at all these experienced people pushed aside for crack pots. People like Jared Kushner, who continues to say what a great job this president , he did in the deaths of 200,000 americans. He shuns history. And again, it happens time and again. And now its happening with an announcement on a vaccine. So the president once again hurting himself and undermining americans confidence with whatever vaccine does come. Well talk about that more later and that piece on the coming storm in the Washington Post is worth checking out. Lets turn to sports now. Bryson dechambeau won the u. S. Open for his first major title, he was two shots behind Matthew Wolff at the start of the final round but passed him in five holes and pulled away for a flawless back nine. No other golfer finished under par. The prime time emmy awards looked different this year because of obvious restraints due to the pandemic. Hey, was that me . But wait, if im down there, how am i up here . That would mean that no one is in the audience. That would mean that im up here all alone. Just like prom night. Of course im here all alone. Of course we dont have an audience. This isnt the maga rally, this is the emmys. The canadians won big. Can i say this . Schitts creek swept the comedy category setting a record for the most wins in a single season. And watchmen won for best limited series. And succession won for best drama. I got to tell you, we werent i like it. We werent watching the emmys last night. We were listening to your podcast. It was hard for me to hear a lot of it with mika snoring, but its you put me to sleep. No, its great stuff. Tell us about it real quick. Its called it was said, it was produced with mika in mind. Trying to, you know, sort of rouse her interest in the distant american past. Its ten great speeches from dr. King on april 3rd on the night before he was assassinated to rfks ewology, barack obama in charleston when he sang amazing grace, john lewis at the march on washington. Hillary clinton in beijing. Really the idea that the original meaning of rhetoric was not just blather but was words designed to create action. So a look at how very imperfect and real public figures have stood in the breach at moments of consequence. And spoken words that actually shaped how we live. And its also a reminder of the legacy we have to protect here as we watch all of these forces come together. This is a country worth defending but it requires every ounce of energy to do it. Words matter. Words can actually help improve the lot of americans. It can bend history as Bobby Kennedy said. Martin luther kings speech on april 3, 1968, extraordinary. Bobby kennedys speech the next day in indianapolis, extraordinary. They used words like Ronald Reagan used words to shape history. Instead of just a blind, mind less to flout history. Blind pursuit of power. However this turns out, it turns out. But again, when power becomes the end instead of a means to an end, then you actually have a government that is in serious trouble and by extension, a country thats in serious trouble and thats exactly, if you just look at the words this weekend of donald trump and Lindsey Graham and Mitch Mcconnell and steve daines, you see a party that is philosophically and morally bankrupt. How about donald trump talking about the gene pool and celebrating a reporter getting injured. Still ahead on morning joe well be joined by dick durbin as the battle begins over the Supreme Court. As we go to break, a note that joes new book saving freedom, truman, the cold war and the fight for a western civilization is coming out on november 17th, but you can preorder now. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. Joe. Well be right back. ready to juvederm it . 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Schwab stock slices an easy way to start investing or to give the gift of stock ownership. Schwab. Own your tomorrow. I remember this guy, he got hit on the knee with a canister of tear gas and he went down. He didnt he was down. My knee, my knee. Nobody cared. These guys didnt care. They moved him aside. And they just walked right through. It was the most beautiful thing. After we take all that crap for weeks and week take this crap and then you finally see men get up there and go right wasnt it really a beautiful sight . Its called law and order. Law and order. This state was pioneered by men and women who braved the wilderness and the winters to build a better life for themselves and their families. They were tough and they were strong. You have good genes, you know that, right . You have good genes. A lot of it is about the genes, dont you think . You have good genes in minnesota. Just your run of the mill donald trump rally mocking ali velshi for the law and order violation of covering a peaceful protest. And then whatever that was about good genes. It reminded me, obviously, its just you cant help but to go there in your head. What do you mean . Hes talking about it out loud. That wasnt written in the script. Talked about his great genes. He did the same thing in michigan before. But Claire Mccaskill, i do wonder, we know who donald trump is. Hes revealed himself to be a cruel man. Ive yet to talk to people that i know who support him who dont say he is a cruel man. He is a mean man. They come up with their reasons for supporting him, nancy pelosi, aoc, you name it, theyll come up with a thousand andrew cuomo, as if he has anything to do with this election. Theyll come up with a thousand different reasons. We know hes a cruel man. Can you imagine. Youve given a few speeches in your lifetime, ive given a few speeches in my lifetime. Can you imagine celebrating the agony of a human being getting shot and knocked to the ground and then calling it a beautiful thing and having people cheer the way they did. My question is not, who is donald trump. We know who donald trump is all too well unfortunately. But my question is, who are those people that are cheering for a man being shot for doing his job and being in agony and crumbling to the ground in agony . Who are those people . What would their parents think of them, how did their parents raise them . Thats right, im asking that question. How did their parents raise them . And what god do they pray to at night that would celebrate, awe pla applaud, cheer, a man getting shot by a rubber bullet and being in excruciating pain . Add to that, the person that was shot was a journalist doing his job under our constitution that celebrates the freedom of the press. This was not just an assault by donald trump on ali velshi. This was an assault on our constitution and the right of journalists to safely gather the facts for the American People. Were talking Blind Loyalty to this man. I said many times i have quit understanding the lack of outrage by people who support donald trump. I cannot fathom it. He is denigrating the institutions we revere in this country, whether its Law Enforcement or whether its our Intelligence Community or whether its freedom of the press or whether its our elections and the sacred process of democracy. And now hes got his number one guy in the senate, you know, i am so sad about Ruth Bader Ginsburg. When i called my daughter, whos in her 20 to tell her, she sobbed on the phone. My heart was breaking for her because it struck her so at her core. So yes, i am sad about Ruth Bader Ginsburgs death. But the other thing im sad about over the weekend, joe, is the death of the United States senate. Thats going to be the book written about Mitch Mcconnell. Hes killed the senate with this power over principle as jon meacham said. Not only is donald trump killing the institutions that lift this country up and make it strong, Mitch Mcconnell is killing the United States senate with what hes doing. Lets look at the latest nbc wall street journal poll, joe biden holds an 8 point lead initially over President Trump. 51 to 43 . The former Vice President holds an 85 point lead among black voters a 29 point lead among voters under the age of 34. Up by 20 points among women. By 13 among white, College Educated voters, by 6 among independents. And by 4 among seniors. Trump holds a 9point average with white voters. A five point advantage sorry, advantage. Among men and a 23 point advantage among white voters without a college degree. And biden is up by 6, 51 to 45 in key states. And among latino voters joe biden has a lead 62 to 26 . Voters trust biden more to handle the coronavirus and race relations. Biden and trump are statistically tied on who is better to handle crime and violence. And voters side with President Trump to handle the economy. Jonathan lemire youve been saying for weeks that donald trump wants anything, anything to be talked about other than the coronavirus, and youre right. Not just because 200,000 people are dead and hes responsible for a large number of those deaths, historians will say it, get mad if you want, its the truth. But because he doesnt want to talk about coronavirus because look at those numbers, who can handle coronavirus better . 51 say joe biden. 29 say donald trump. Its almost as if americans dont believe his lies anymore. Joe, theyve been paying attention and this has been the truth since march when the pandemic began here. The American People after giving him the benefit of the doubt for the first few weeks and a brief bump in his Approval Ratings have largely disapproved of how he has handled the pandemic. So as you say, he has been trying to desperately change the subject and twice now theyve leaned hard into law and order, after the death of george floyd which culminated in the president clearing Lafayette Square on june 1st so he could stage a photo op with a bible. And then the last few weeks after kenosha. Both times they thought the play would be reassuring to frightened seniors or suburban voters that the president was cracking down on chaos in the streets, their words, but it has not worked. We saw his numbers are shrunk after the death of george floyd and then in the last few weeks the Trump Campaign said their internals suggest slight changes in certain states, largely theres been no Real Movement here either, particularly in the state of wisconsin where kenosha, of course, is located, that they have long thought was of the three great lake they need to get one of them. They thought wisconsin was their best chance and now theyre seeing that, theyre growing more pessimistic about that. Joe, as a final point weve been cycling through what states seem to matter the most in this race, wisconsin has been at the top for a while. Arizona in the last few weeks has emerged as one because the republicans are so nervous about arizona and they feel if they have lose it, that changes their math considerably. If they lose arizona, keeping wisconsin, no sure thing isnt enough to get to 270. The state the president s team are focused on now, pennsylvania. He goes there twice this week. Its the biggest prize of the trio. His poll numbers have been the closest there, but hes still down. And thats a tough climb for this president since pennsylvania, of course, is joe bidens native state where he has such roots. You assume such good turnout in the scranton area where theyre focused on turning out the cities of philadelphia and pittsburgh and the philadelphia suburbs seem to be breaking hard from the president. So for trumps team its turning out rural voters to try to overcome that. Polls say its close but thats going to be tough for him to do. Thats where hes spending his energy this week and perhaps beyond. And Jonathan Lemire thank you so much. He has to because he has to win pennsylvania and with wisconsin slipping out of reach right now, again, not so early, but those numbers have been pretty steady over the past several weeks, five, six, seven, eight points with wisconsin has been one of his more favorable swing states of the six or seven that everybody has been looking at this past year. You look at wisconsin and here you have a nine point lead for joe biden in wisconsin. You look at michigan polls for six months the trump team realized that michigan was the least likely of the swing states they could win. Suddenly all eyes go to pennsylvania. If he doesnt win pennsylvania hes sunk. But rev, you look at the poll numbers and it seems i think it was the New York Times yesterday that wrote this story, them or the washington journal. But the lead was fascinating. They talked about how volatile 2020 was, the most volatile year in recent American History because of the pandemic, because of the economic crisis because of the protests, 25 Million People marching in the streets, d disturbanc disturbances, some riots, looting, political chaos. And yet the one constant this year, joe bidens 8 point lead. Isnt it fascinating that there had been such a consistency over the past six, seven, eight months in the polls. And still with the crises that were enduring, the shocks were enduring, those numbers Still Holding steady in this latest nbc wall street journal poll. When you look at the fact that in unstable times, as outlined in that article, people look for leadership to be a stab lo stabilizing force. People in waves going up and down on the ocean, they want stability, they want to hold onto something. And this president has not only not been stable, hes been one that has incited the waves and embellished the waves we keep going up and down on in the things outlined in the article that you recounted. And i think joe biden has shown a steady hand. If you look at wisconsin, look contrast the visit by donald trump that went in inciting things, meeting with Law Enforcement, not dealing with the family of the victim there in the kenosha. Not showing a balance. And look at how biden came in, whether one is on one side or the other of the argument, people want stability and someone that can bring a sense of calmness so we can reflect and move forward and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, one of two of saintly people that died this year, john lewis and ginsburg. And the reaction from this president is not just to lets mourn two or three days, its im going to replace her right away. Lets keep the turbulence going. I think thats why you see the steady in the poll for joe biden. We want people that will steady us during rocky times. Reverend al thank you so much. We look forward to your book coming out later this month and look forward to having you on that week several times to talk about it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Mika, the rev brings up a great point. People want steadiness in times of crises. You look at kenosha and look at the fact when a 17yearold kid from out of state, a boy from out of state, drives up to the state with an ar15 around his neck stop right there. Shoots and kills a couple of people. Shooting wildly, acting like a rentacop trying to protect property thats not his in a town he doesnt know, and donald trump praises that. That is the sort of unsteady leadership. Thats what turns off people. Not only in wisconsin but across the country. We want to bring in some new voices to the conversation. Nbc news chief Foreign Affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell. And historian doris Kerns Goodwin. Columnist at usa today and author, tom nickels. And political reporter for the Washington Post, an msnbc political analyst, robert costa. And former senator Claire Mccaskill is still with us as well. Andrea mitchell, id love to hear your thoughts on the legacy of Justice Ginsburg. But also now on the political battle that has ensued given her death has come just weeks before the election. She would have hated this battle. This is exactly what she was hoping to avoid. Why she was hoping to hang on, even though she had pancreatic cancer and was struggling but still wrote a stinging descent in a july case, just recently was still writing strongly. The fact that she was failing at the end, at that point according to nina totenberg, who knows her so well, unable to do the legendary workouts were seeing in the documentary, the fact she was still in pain and dealing with her medical issues did not stop her from doing stellar work. She was the most disciplined, meticulous person, her clerks attest to that, and we saw it in her writing. And the fact that she suffered incredible discrimination in the 50s, 60s and 70s and went on to become an incredible litigator, arguing and winning 5 out of 6 cases in front of the Supreme Court from 1973 to 1978 being an important member of the d. C. Circuit. But believing in consensus, she wrote in 2016 that collegiality was important. And it was important that all the justices, polar opposites of her, wrote personal moving tributes to her that they released on saturday. These were not written by clerks. These were intimate detailed comments about what she meant to them, their spouses, fatheir families as colleagues. So to the end of her life she was separated among her colleagues for the collegiatety that the court has managed to maintain throughout the strife were talking about right now, this political hypocrisy right now that were seeing from one side is just incredible. I was watching last night the gymnasti gymnastics, verbal gymnastics of trying to establish there were footnotes to what they said in 2016 and 2018, and as Claire Mccaskill pointed out earlier, when Lindsey Graham talked about this and declared to Jeffrey Goldberg at the Atlantic Forum that if this were to occur in the Election Year he would not and he would likely be the judiciary chairman and save the tape, remember my worlds i would not hold a hearing, proceed with a confirmation, he never said then it was now okay because of the brutal kavanaugh fight, it had already happened. So there were so many excuses, so many rationalizations right now. And i think its quite possible the voters will see through that. You know, doris, a lot of americans think that politics is tougher than its ever been. Of course, all you have to do is read the history of the 1800 campaign. You know, George Washington, even before that, before his death, thinking the american experiment was doomed. And Thomas Jefferson as he moved towards his deathbed thinking the american experiment was doomed because of the harsh partisanship. We can get through all of this. That said, this country works best when you have people like Ruth Bader Ginsburg and anton scalia working on polar opposites, fighting each other every day at work as hard as they can, writing blistering descents against other peoples opinions and when its over like reagan and oneil being friends still. I thought the oped in the Washington Post by cascalias n was moving, saying they were great friends not because they moved to the middle on issues, but they were great friends because they were great friends. They thought each other held an Important Role in this constitutional republic. Youre absolutely right. I think each person with different views is part of a common american citizenry. And the best times weve had in the country are when you look at the outside movement, the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s and finds the levers of powers inside with Lyndon Johnson and they come together and the Voting Rights act is passed, a Civil Rights Act is passed because they feel loyalty to the institution of the senate and the country as a whole. When my husband was in the last couple years of his life, we were going through all of his boxes and taking out 300 boxes of files and material he had, and suddenly in one of these boxes popped out a picture of my husband, as the president of the law review, and off on the right was this little face and it was Ruth Bader Ginsburg. One of only two women in the law review, one of nine women, out of 500 men at the Harvard School at the time. And meanwhile my husband is writing a letter to his friend saying all the third year students are being romanced by law firms all over the country, going to milwaukee, san francisco, they can stay in the partners homes in the summer while the partners koe vort in europe. And she cannot get a single job in new york. And does that create bitterness in her . Just the contrary. She wants to open the doors for the people who will come behind her. Even when the dean of Harvard Law School said to those nine women, youre taking the place of a man, what are you doing here . They said we know what were doing here. Theres a power here, not only how she was able to have the team work. She worked so hard. She said i dont have talent like a great opera singer that i loved. Its work. She hardly ate, hardly slept, Teddy Roosevelt said theres two kinds of success in the world, if someone has a talent no one can emulate, but most peoples success comes when they take their regular qualities and expand them to an extraordinary degree through hard, sustained work. And thats an incredible example she left to us from the beginning of her life to the last years when shes staying on the Supreme Court, keeping her work up, being a first year law student having a 14 month old kid, her husband has cancer the next year, shes taking care of him. Thats an example for us all to follow. The its an extraordinary thing when that kind of outpouring takes place. Its an emotional thing lasting in peoples hearts. Same when fdr died, people wanted to be together, they felt lonely without him. Thats what weve seen with Ruth Bader Ginsburg. That doesnt happen often and its a special thing thats happened. It sends a message to our daughters and our sons that Public Service still matters. Theres so many things they can see on tv. Theres so many things they can see online that suggests that Public Service is not the highest calling in america. But Ruth Bader Ginsburg and her relationship with Antonin Scalia and how they worked together, shows that Public Service still can make a great difference in peoples lives, whether youre from a conservative or liberal family or somewhere in the middle. One more quick thing because i do think that in the trump era things are constitutionally more tenuous than theyve ever been before. That said, can you just add some perspective here about Supreme Court fights because this really is not new. For me i thought this began with robert bork and later on ginsburg and then after that clarence thomas. But Richard Nixon and the democrats had some pretty ugly fights excuse me, im sorry with carswell and haynesworth, they were rejected too. This sort of thing has happened before. Ill remind everybody the 2000 recount happened before. And the Supreme Court we heard would never be trusted or respected again and that lasted about two weeks. These things happen in america. We figure out a way through them. This is why history provides us hope and perspective. Thats what i keep saying. We feel like were living in the worth possible time and it does seem scary. We have a pandemic, we have the new protest movement for justice and trying to get justice into the country in a much better way. We have an economic fallout. And then you think about what were the early days of the depression like when it was 25 unemployment, no safety net. The early days of world war ii when it was unclear completely whether wed be able to beat hitler. He concurred all of western europe except england standing alone. In every field, whether its the presidency or the court fights youre talking about. When were in the middle of them, we dont know how the story is going to end, thats whats scarry. We have the anxiety and fear of being in the a crisis. But hisly lets us look back and see it makes us stronger. We won the civil war, the allies won world war ii, the Supreme Court battles were resolved. Thats the best things about the lives of john lewis, and Ruth Bader Ginsburg, they fought through so many obstacles but they said we made this progress, remember the progress we made and e they become a hero one step at a time. We cannot give up in the middle of the fights we have to take it to the story and make it be the story we want, the store y of victory, people coming together. Weve done it before, we can do it again you have to believe that or youre lost in despair. Thats why i love being a historian, history tells us otherwise. Lets talk about Lindsey Graham. He has already said that he is debt set dead set on confirming whoever trump nominates to fill Justice Ginsburgs seat. Lying so far appears to work for the president. Well see how it does so in the election. I wonder what lying does for the voters of South Carolina . Heres Lindsey Graham in 2016 and then again two years later on this issue. If theres a republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say Lindsey Graham said lets let the next president , whoever it might be make that nomination and you can use my words against me and youd be absolutely right. Ill tell you this, this may make you feel better but i really dont care. If an opening comes in the last year of President Trumps term and the primary process has started, well wait until the next election. And ive got a pretty good chance of being youre on the record. Yeah. Hold the tape. All right. So were holding it, tom nickels and hes now pushing for trump to nominate someone. Flatout lying. Is it just following the president s lead or is this some political skill thats going to work in the great state of South Carolina . Well, i cant speak for South Carolina. It seems to me that, first of all, i just cannot imagine how most of these republican senators who have gone on the record years ago now wake up and look at themselves in the mirror and are somehow comfortable with what theyve become and the things they have to say, which is purely the party of power. Purely, the whole republican philosophy now is because we can. And i think one of the things that i find so striking about this, is that it says that conservatives, in so far as we can call them conservatives have completely given up on any hope that their ideas can ever be sold to the public. That they can win elections. They can advance their cause. They have become the far left liberals of an earlier generation, saying nobody wants what were selling so were going to go to the courts and we dont care how we get to the courts. Its amazing to see people of the right who when joe and i were republicans this was a big thing to criticize the left saying you guys are going to the courts to get things you cant get at the ballot box because you dont believe in yourselves and conservatives have become that movement now. To say as long as we control the courts we dont care if you like us, the institutions of the senate, norms. Most of the senators said over and over again, constitutionally we ever allowed to do this. Thats right. But the fact of the matter is our system operates much more on norms and traditions than it does on written law. And this you know, we could potentially see a situation where we have a Supreme Court justice appointed by the tie breaking vote of the Vice President. I want to be as optimistic as doris but thats going to hurt the court and the country. You are so right, tom, that we used to always criticize people on the far left more wanting to push activist judges to legislate from the bench and do things that they couldnt do in congress or with the presidency. And here you have a Republican Party thats i think because of demographic changes, is facing oblivion and what do they want . They want an activist court, they are desperate for an activist court to overturn a blank of the constitution thats been there for almost half a century and has the support of 75 of americans. That is the definition of judicial activism. By the way, i told this story a decade ago. That jeb bush, i had somebody from pensacola who was a judge, who wanted to be on the Supreme Court, and asked that his his friends asked and his family ask that i call jeb bush and put in a good word. And jeb was as prolife as can you be. I picked up the phone and i called jeb and i said, you know, hes a real conservative guy, this, that and the other. I know hes prolife and i was expecting to hear thats a great thing. I said, hes prolife. And jeb said, heres my question for you, joe, if theres a law that supports abortion rights that maybe he disagrees with and i disagree with and you disagree with, will he overturn that law or will he follow the law . I said, well, you can ask him that, but im pretty sure hes going to follow the law and not legislate from the bench because thats what we conservatives claim we support. And jeb goes, okay, ill talk to him. See, thats a conservative. Thats a conservative. What republicans used to be. What republicans used to be and know republicans are not conservative. These republicans in the senate are not conservative. The republicans in the house are not conservative when, tom, and you said it maybe theyre conservative, no theyre not. They pass. Even before the pandemic, budgets that have the largest deficit of all time, the biggest deficits of all time, they undermine nato. Nato that really was Ronald Reagans, you know, best ally when trying to take down the soviet union. Theres nothing conservative about them. And you are so right for calling them out. Theyre now the people that want to appoint justices that are judicial activists that will overturn a 50year precedent that 75 of americans support. So i guess bob costa, the question is what do they do next . Lindsey is on tape lying but let me play steve daines real quick, whos in a tight race. Heres daines lying to the people of montana in 2016 and again in 2020. Take a look. I dont think its right to bring a nominee forward in an Election Year. You go back at the history. You have to go back to 1888, grover cleveland, the last time there was ever a Supreme Court noc nominee, a vacancy that occurred in an Election Year by a divided government. Given the people have started to vote already to put a nominee in that hyper politicized environment i do not think is right for the institution. So steve daines twice says, quote, i dont think its right. Now he says, we need to go forward. Whats going to happen this week with the republicans. Weve seen Susan Collins say she wants no part of this, for good reason because it would finish her senate campaign. We also heard Lisa Murkowski say that. What are you hearing on the hill . Who are the two republicans that may, may stop this in its tracks and actually help their party . The republicans who are uneasy about this, the charge of hypocri hypocrisy, senator collins, Lisa Murkowski, romney theyre looking at someone who could step up. But based on my calls over the weekend, the idea that hypocrisy is on the minds of republicans right now is just plain wrong theyre thinking through the final 40 plus days of this Campaign Season and gaming out the possible nominations with their friends inside the white house, with top advisers, theyre looking to florida, judge Barbara Lagoa, shes been already touted by matt gates and theyre looking to indiana, the other federal judge there, amy coney berit. They think her nomination, if it happens could be a way to put catholic voters in a tighter embrace, perhaps with President Trump in some of these swing states. This is the way theyre thinking about it. As much as others in washington and new york are talking about hypocrisy, which should be front and center, its not on the minds of my republican sources. You have to get that to understand how this is all going to play out. Yeah and they actually they may not be thinking about it, but i suspect voters in montana and South Carolina will. Bob costa is using the barry white audio filter this morning. The voice is slowed down just a little bit on his feed. Claire mccaskill play this out, if you will. Whats the most likely scenario . Are we going to be looking at a vote before the election or after the election in a lame duck session . Boy, how difficult would that be to push through a Supreme Court justice if the president were to lose and the senate were to flip to the Democratic Party which right now if you look at the polls, theres a good reason to believe both may happen. Based on my conversations with a lot of senators over the weekend, frankly of both parties, my sense is that the republicans are going to try to change the subject off covid by the announcement of this nomination. But i am not certain that Mitch Mcconnell is going to try to force a vote on this nomination before the election. I think they will use it to try to drive turnout. I agree with you, joe, were talking about that 29 to 33 that are already there and already voting for republicans, but they believe, i think, this could be a galvanizing force for some people that werent that excited, maybe evangelicals particularly because of trumps immorali immorality, that that will get them more excited about november. And besides that, it keeps those senators in tough states from having to take the ultimate vote. They can say theyre deliberating, considering the choice. So its not going to surprise me if they do the announcements and perhaps do the hearings and then wait to do the actual vote until after the election. Andrea mitchell, the question is then going to be who is the president going to select . Is he going to select somebody whos going to be considered outside the main stream of where suburban voters might want that person to be, where women might want that person to be . Again, the very groups that donald trump is struggling with the most are the groups that are likely going to be turned off by whomever he selects as Supreme Court nominee because hes going to be playing to that 29 base . Coney berit from indiana was an early front runner she was already vetted, someone they considered before when they appointed kavanaugh. But i think Barbara Lagoa could be somebody coming in on the inside track. I dont have to tell you how important florida is, the hispanic vote, shes cuban american. She has so many things going for her. There was a lot of talk about her. Wasnt someone earlier Mitch Mcconnell was talking about, but i think that is somebody we should be looking at. But clearly he is close to the decision, this could be as early as tomorrow. Whats remarkable is theyre not even waiting for the viewing for Justice Ginsburg to be lying in repose at the court, for the other arrangements, burial at arlington were expecting this week. Its so hasty and lays bare the political motivation behind it. I was struck by something you were all discussing, the spontaneous celebration of her life, the mourning thats been going on. It was thousands of people turning out this was announced about 7 15 eastern time on friday night. Its a friday, summers night and all of a sudden people started turning out and our reporters there at the court steps, we were on the air but we were hearing reports from the scene initially there were people standing crying, then they started singing, they started singing imagine and america the beautiful. It was the first night of ra sha shon, the new year. There was a great significance in the Old Testament in the bible to those that pass during this weekend, this high holiday weekend. So people who are righteous and who are virtuous, who actually die at this moment there was just so much symbolism and emotion in it. By saturday night it was a national outpouring of people not only on the Supreme Court steps but on court steps around the country. I think theyre underestimating her appeal also because of the notorious rbg to young people, to claires daughter, Amy Klobuchars daughter, young women i know, to the children, you look at the halloween costumes, the mugs, tshirts, the lovely documentary and, of course, also the feature film in the matter of sex. Theres just so much about this justice that weve never seen before. Andrea mitchell, thank you so much. Well be watching Andrea Mitchell reports at noon today and every day right here on msnbc. Bob costa, i think we have the speed of your voice back it sounded good. It sounded okay. But it was barry right, circa 1973. I think its fixed now. But barry white, circa 1973, thats a good thing, bob. Bob, what are you looking at this week beyond the Supreme Court battle . What im really looking for within the Supreme Court battle joe is how much pressure dot conservatives and the Federalist Society in the evangelical wing of the Republican Party put for judge coney berit. Shes a scalia clerk, someone the Republican Party believes in. So theyre going to have a Pressure Campaign for her. Keep an eye on someone like senator josh holly, a younger conservative who wants to put abortion front and center in the decisionmaking process. And beyond that, you got to look at speaker pelosi, how does she handle the fury on the left from democrats about how Senate Republicans are handling this entire process. All right. Robert costa, thank you very much for your reporting. And doris, we want to end the segment with your final thoughts. It was so beautiful, you talking about your husband and his remembrances of her. Give us your final thoughts on the life and the legacy of an extraordinary woman. I think ill go back to what you were saying its an extraordinary thing that were now valuing a public servant. A democracy needs people who are the best people to want to go into public life and the fact that she made a choice of becoming a public senirvant, my husband made the same choice hed rather go into public life. If one good thing can come from this, young people see how much her life has been valued, how many people are going out to emotionally respond what they feel about her. Maybe they feel they dont have to become a celebrity in an acting world, on instagram. What they need is the hard work of becoming democratic person who fosters our democracy without people going into public life. Sometimes the amount of money you have to raise to get into office deters people. The fact your private life will be undone but in the end theres nothing like the ability to make a difference in other peoples lives. Seeing different parts of the country you get your empathy increased, and you see different areas of the country in Public Service. It used to be politics was the road for advancement, true in the 1930s and 1960s. And i think if Ruth Bader Ginsburgs and john lewis extraordinary career, and the fact people see how value they are, and they make a difference and the fight for justice all of your life, that people could see what could come out f it, that would be great. The time for people to see how Public Service can make a difference is greater now than ever. I talked to a friend whos republican who spent his entire life in Public Service, spent a good bit of his life in Public Service and he had every opportunity, all of his friends decided to go to wall street, to work for Goldman Sachs and other wall street banks making millions and millions of dollars. He decided to get into Public Service and fought the good conservative fight, the small Government Conservative fight. And now that hes out of politics, hes sitting there and questioning did i make the right decision . It seems that everything that i fought for the Republican Party has now undermined. And its just so important a for all americans to keep the faith. So important for Young Americans to look at the lives of people whether its Ruth Bader Ginsburg or Antonin Scalia, or whomever it is. Look at these people who believed strongly in what they believed in and fought for it and made a real difference in this country. Its just so important for our constitutional republican to work. Its so important that they keep the faith. Its the real meaning of being an influencer. Doris Kerns Goodwin thank you for being on this northemorning. Still ahead on morning joe well talk to dick durbin about what if any the democrats can do to keep the senate from voting on a Supreme Court replacement. Well be right back. Replacement well be right back. Among my patients, i often see them have teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. Does it worry me . Absolutely. Sensodyne sensitivity gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. Theres no question its something that i would recommend. Theres no question its something thiand its missionedic is to give you truly transformative sleep. So, no more tossing and turning or trouble falling asleep because only tempurpedic uses proprietary tempur® material. That continuously adapts and responds to your body, to relieve pressure so you get deep, uninterrupted sleep. 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Uh uh nope one up the power of liquid with tide power pods. Noand if youre troubledan a lifby falls and bleeds,ers. Worry follows you everywhere. Over 100,000 people have left blood thinners behind with watchman. Its a onetime, minimally invasive procedure that reduces stroke risk and bleeding worryfor life. Watchman. Its one time. For a lifetime. That was Washingtons National cathedral marking a solemn occasion yesterday by tolling its morning bell 200 times. Once for every one thousand american lives lost in the covid pandemic. Among those 200,000 souls cut down by coronavirus is adoline fagan, a young houston doctor who died over the weekend in the icu, she tested positive after an emergency shift treating patients with the virus. Though her main task at a houston hospital was delivering babies as an obgyn. He contacted covid in july and as her condition worsened she had to be hospitalized. She was just 28 years old. Just one of 200,000. Joining us now, morning joe chief medical correspondent dr. Dave campbell and Infectious Disease physician and medical director of the pathogen University Boston school of medicine dr. Nahid bhadelia. Where do we stand overall with this and where its heading, dr. Dave . You hear a lot from the president that it will go away. Its not going away. Were at 200,000 deaths. The world, worldwide theres a million deaths. If we use, doris kern goodwins words and history for hope and perspective, we have to look back to the 1918 flu pandemic and realize there were 50 times more deaths worldwide and now were sitting at a million worldwide, 200,000 deaths in the United States. Were going to double that by the end of the year, mika. And theres no end in sight. Weve heard from dr. Redfield that we cannot expect widespread Vaccine Availability until the summer or fall of next year, despite other statements that have been made. So it is important to remember that the concerns that we must all have right now, today, with schools starting back up, with winter coming, with cold weather, must make us redouble our efforts to stop the spread of the virus using simple Public Health measures, face masks, hand washing, social distancing, particularly indoors and i would say particularly in your own home, mika. Dr. Bhadelia, a good number of people are using masks despite the lack of National Leadership on this issue, do you expect the situation to get worse before it gets better . Where do we stand in your point of view in terms of the virus . Thank you, mika. Just to stress the 200,000 were seeing, those are deaths, i think when we look back on this, retrospect, a lens were getting a fuller picture of the people who carried the burr den of the hospital visits. Were going to see the people affected by the damage to our Economic System for how long this was prolonged because we couldnt get it under control. And the biggest part of this, i think, success for any outbreak response, there are a couple of components to that. One is the response itself, we theed the supplies, the testing and were lagging on those things and i hope we do better on that. The other is the behavior, the use of masks, the reducing the number of people indoors. Thats the thing i think were still feeling it, people are using masks but theres pockets of deep resistance to behavior change. I think the reason its been this way is because we have a group of our politicians, elected officials who have never placed emphasis on that, who undermined the behavior change component and thats what i see continuing. If we cannot get vaccine induced herd immunity as dr. Dave said because we wont get vaccines to everybody by next summer that means we wont achieve the level to stop Wearing Masks for another another year. Thats why the behavior change component is important. Tom, a question for you, you had Jared Kushner of the white house saying that well be rocking and rolling by july on this virus, well be a lot better. Heres President Trump back on march 29th talking about what the goals are for success in beating this pandemic. Take a listen. So youre talking about 2. 2 million deaths. 2. 2 Million People from this. And so, if we can hold that down as were saying to were saying, to 100,000, thats a horrible number, maybe less, so we have between 100,000 and 200,000. We all together have done a very good job. Tom, a lot of people think a lot of these deaths are on the president because he didnt do some basic things that were backed up by science that would have prevented death. The numbers confirm that. There were plenty of populous countries in the world that have relatively decentralized government like ours, federal systems, the european union, which is more numerous than the United States. We simply didnt have a National Response to it. Instead, we had a president who was mostly concerned about how this was going to play for him. In that clip, its amazing to remember that he began this while theres just a handful of cases and has now moved the goalpost all the way to, well, i saved 2 Million People so be grateful only 200,000 died. Were going to have a lot more than 200,000 before this is o over. It is a startling reminder that the president of the United States doesnt care about the American People. And he put the response for this in the hands of his completely incompetent soninlaw in a case of nepotism, producing actual harm to the American People, which is the other thing we sort of forget. Imagine that if we werent living in this alternate reality, this bubble that the president has created around his own supporters, imagine the outrage if any other president had put his or her soninlaw in charge of a National Crisis and 200,000 people ended up dead. And yet the president , because he is a brazen you know, he comes out and brazenly says these things, he gets people used to the idea that, you know, 200,000 people, what are you going to do . Nobody could have done better. My soninlaw handled it. I really hope we are somehow beyond being numb to that because it is the most appalling dereliction of duty in being president. Health and Human Services secretary alex azar has barred the health agencies, including the fda, from signing any new foods, including vaccines. According to a memorandum obtained by the New York Times on april 15th, azar wrote, moving forward is for the health secretary. The move further underscores reporting that health and scientific agencies are undergoing a deep politicalization. Dr. Bhadelia, ive seen you on twitter, its hard as a doctor at this point not to be concerned about politics taking over and science and flouting it, but are you worried at all also about the reporting to secretary azar here on the vaccines and other critical critical reporting processes that are being changed in this presidency . Mika, absolutely. The gist of this is while are mild mannered Infectious Disease physicians like me getting into politics . Because politics is killing us now. Covid is the route but we are more resilient as a nation and whats happened in this response, and this is another example, a continued corrosion of trust. Theres this bypassing of regular processes that ensure there are checks and balances and evaluation of science. So, this move generally hhs oversees a lot of these agencies but those decisionmaking powers are not so centralized. There are so many more scientists and so many more, you know, checks and balances involved. Another example, for example, is the cdc. The changes that weve seen made to publications, the guidelines. Since Michael Caputo left, there are two cdc guidelines changed. Last week they changed their guidelines to stress testing in people who may have been exposed. They stressed the importance this does not be transmitted like influenza so it requires more masks and indoor the danger of indoor settings. If we let science lead, we can get this problem back under control but were letting policy continuously undermine the science. Dr. Dave, before we close out, tell me your concerns about the flu season, the upcoming flu season. Were getting into the importance of a flu shot and also the potential this could get worse as the flu and covid merge. Well, cold weather is coming. The flu vaccine is available and it is recommended that everybody in the country thats over six months of age get the flu vaccine so when were all moved indoor in closer proximity because of schools, because of weather chilling off and the reality of what happens in many, many states across the country in the winter, its ever important to not amplify risks of flu and covid19 by avoiding the very simple measure of getting a seasonal flu vaccination now. Its time to do that, mika. I hope that everybody is going to their doctors or local pharmacy or have friends in the medical field will get vaccinated. That will go a long way to help minimize the number of people who get both the flu and covid19 this winters. Doctors, thank you both for being on this morning. Tom nichols, thank you as well. Still ahead this morning, one of our next guests says, Mitch Mcconnell is the apex predator of u. S. Politics. Howard feinman joins us to explain his new column in the Washington Post. Its straight ahead on morning joe. Tech at safelite, were here for you with safe, convenient service. Tech well come right to you. Upbeat music tech youll get a text when were on our way. Tech before we arrive, just leave your keys on the dash. Well replace your windshield with safe, nocontact service. Upbeat music tech and thats service you can trust when you need it the most. Upbeat music tech schedule at safelite. Com. Upbeat music singers safelite repair, safelite replace. My 9 12 nodaysoff migraine medicine. Its ubrelvy. The migraine medicine i can take anytime, anywhere migraine strikes without worrying if its too late, or where i am. One dose of ubrelvy works fast. It can quickly stop my migraine in its tracks within two hoursrelieving pain and debilitating symptoms. Unlike older medicines, ubrelvy is a pill that directly blocks cgrp protein, believed to be a cause of migraine. Do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. Few people had side effects. Most common were nausea and tiredness. Migraine hits hard. Hit back with ubrelvy. The anytime, anywhere migraine medicine. Here . The anytime, anywhere migraine medicine. Nah. Here . Nope. Here. When the middle of nowhere. Is somewhere. The allnew chevy trailblazer. Teeth sensitivity as well as gum issues. Does it worry me . Absolutely. Sensodyne sensitivity gum gives us the dual action effect that really takes care of both our teeth sensitivity as well as our gum issues. Theres no question its something that i would recommend. So, what grade do you give yourself on the virus for the last six, seven months . Other than the public relations, which is impossible because its a fake media, fake. Theyre fake. I know you yeah, i do. Other than the fact that ive been so, whats the grade, sir. I gave ourselves an a but the grade is incomplete, and ill tell you why. If we come up with the vaccines and the therapeutics, then i give myself an aplus. President trump in conversation with journalist bob woodward, who last night shared that previously unreleased audio from one of their interviews from late july when the president gave himself that glowing grade. 140,000 americans had lost their lives from the coronavirus. Now, about two months later, the coronavirus death toll in the u. S. Has surpassed 200,000 lives. You know, its a grading scale i dont think any of us understand or would be comfortable with. I think its grading itself straight out of trump university. We can grade it from the very beginning where he was a liar, admitted he was a liar to the American People, when he had been told by his own people outside the white house in january that this was going to be the biggest crisis he faced of his presidency, when his own trade adviser had told him that 500,000 americans could die. With that information, donald trump was saying that it was one person coming in from china and soon it would go away. Thats not helping you. Thats not helping any american. That would be really, that that would be like george w. Bush continuing to say after 9 11 hit that there was nothing to see here, there was no concern. But he went on. And then he said that it was just 15 people coming in, and that soon that would be down to zero. He lied about china. He said time and again that china was doing a great job. He said told bob woodward that china was a great partner and president xi was a great partner and told americans that they were being transparent about everything. Now hes claiming that hes being really tough on china. So, you know, whats the impact of this . And why did he do it . You know why he did it. He only cares about one thing. He doesnt care about you. He doesnt care about the good of the American People. He certainly doesnt care about our standing across the globe. He only cares about him and his political standing, and for him, thats measured by the Dow Jones Industrial instead of the number of americans dead. We could compare u. S. Death rates with other countries across the globe. Of course, you know, despite his lies, and even if youre in his personality cult, you know hes lying. You just choose to pretend the lies. But the numbers are the numbers and theyll always be the numbers, and its not a coincidence that if you live in wisconsin and you just go across the border, or if you live in michigan and you just go across the border, what do you find . You find a country where six people died yesterday of covid. Every death is a tragedy. So, im not going to even say om six people died yesterday in canada. But for a country suffering 1,000 deaths, just south of there in the United States, even yesterday when our death count was down a little bit, over 50 times the number of americans died yesterday of covid that died in canada. Can you do all the adjusting you want for population size. We still come out the loser. And donald trump still comes out, president of the United States, who botched the Biggest Health care kisz of the past century, the biggest economic crisis of the past 80 years, and the biggest political crisis of the past 50 years. So, nobodys giving him an a gradingwise, mika. Now hes going to try Supreme Court. All he wants is to keep distracting americans and have them forget that 200,000 americans are dead when so Many Americans would still be alive if donald trump hadnt spent the last six months lying to you and to your family. Simple measures could have saved so many of those lives, and he led them a different way. You touched on not just 200,000plus souls lost to coronavirus, but the other consequential news story that were looking at this morning, the death of ginsbuRuth Bader Ginsburg. With us is Jonathan Lemire, reverend al sharpton, historian and Vanderbilt University professor jon meacham, former u. S. Senator, now nbc news and msnbc analyst Claire Mccaskill and host of way to early, kasie d. C. , congratulations on your first show. 200,000 people lost to the coronavirus, and also the political discussion surrounding the death of Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg, dying on friday at the age of 87. It will be a bitter political fight to fill her seat on the court. The president says he will nominate a replacement and Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell says the nominee will get a vote. Whats different now from 2016 when mcconnell denied the nomination of garland, mcconnell claims because the same Party Controls the presidency and the senate. In a Dear Colleague letter to Senate Republicans, mcconnell wrote, over the coming days we are all going to come under tremendous pressure from the press to announce how we will handle the coming nomination. For those of you who are unsure how to answer or for those inclined to oppose giving a nominee a vote, i urge you all to keep your powder dry. There are already at least two republican defections. Democrats need four. Susan collins and senator Lisa Murkowski of alaska said this he oppose voting on a replacement before election day. Meanwhile, senator Chuck Grassley said in july, if i were chairman of the Judiciary Committee and this vacancy occurred, i would not have a hearing on it because thats what i promised the people back in 2016. Thats what he promised the people, okay. Were also watching senator mitt romney, who has not yet indicated where he stands. With just 43 days until election day, democrats have warned republicans to follow the precedent they set in 2016 when they refused to consider president Barack Obamas nominee on the grounds it was an Election Year. In early 2016 mcconnell said he would not give garland his confirmation for proceedings because he said voters should get to decide through the president ial election. The day after ginsburgs death, senator Lindsey Graham, chair of the senate Judiciary Committee tweeted he is, quote, dead set on confirming whoever President Trump nominates for the seat. This comes, despite the multiple times he said that if a vacancy opened up in the runup to the president ial election, he would hold off on confirmation. If theres a republican president in 2016 and a vacancy occurs in the last year of the first term, you can say, Lindsey Graham said, lets let the next president , whoever it might be, make that nomination. And you can use my words against me and youd be absolutely right. Ill tell you this, this may make you feel better but i really dont care, if an opening comes in the last year of President Trumps term and the primary process has started, well wait until the next election. And ive got a pretty good chance of being youre on the record. Yeah. All right. Hold the tape. You heard him, hold the tape. Up next, joe breaks down the political impact of senator grahams shameless hypocrisy. Youre watching morning joe. Well be right back. ll be righ. Sprinting past every leak in our softest, smoothest fabric. Shes confident, protected, her strength respected. Depend. The only thing stronger than us, is you. Depehere . Nah. Here . Nope. Here. When the middle of nowhere. Is somewhere. The allnew chevy trailblazer. Joe, the moment the news broke about the death of Justice Ginsburg, a lot of our friends on the left and right were calling, first of all, very, very saddened about her death, but secondly, very worried about the election. Our folks, our liberal friends were worried this would hurt their chances. Our republican friends thought this was their moment they were going to have their october surprise. And you said, nope, nope, nope, its the other way around. Immediately. Why was that . Well, first of all, ill get to that in a second. First of all, ive got to just talk about lind lindsey. Theres a guy i came in with in 1984, a friend of mine. And we worked closely together in congress. And i was talking to a couple of other friends who are no longer in politics, but who are friends of lindseys and just came in and they are just astounded. Just astounded that he would lie so openly. Again, youre like, wait, in is a guy we knew and he would like that blatantly to the people of South Carolina and america . When its on tape. And we really cant get our arms around that. We havent been able to get our arms around that for several years now. Its so interesting. Lindsey graham was a guy that led the impeachment against bill clinton. We republicans were so shocked that bill clinton answered in one of his questions, it depends on what the meaning of is. The National Review and the wall street journal opinion page, and Lindsey Graham and i were talking about the deconstruction of the english language. You start with language and then the rest of culture collapses and soon dogs and cats are sleeping with each other and locusts are descending from the heavens, eating the skin off our flash in d. C. I mean, it really the absolute freakout the republicans had because of bill clinton and his lack of character and the him saying what the meaning of is is. We really did talk about what a horrific moral crisis this was. And Lindsey Graham was at the front of that parade. Lindsey is not deconstructing language there. Lindseys not engaging in moral equivocation. Lindseys just lying and hes lying openly, and its just like Anne Applebaum says in the twilight of democracy that theyre not even trying to hide it from you. Theyre just lying openly. So, steve daines by the way, steve daines is doing the same thing in montana. Do voters like this . No. They hate it more than anything else. I found, and claire will tell you this, that if you say i know youre not going to agree with this, i know youre not going to like this, but this is where i stand. If you dont like it, vote against me. I did that all the time. The closest anybody got to me in a race was in the general election race was 62 to 38 and i was the first republican elected in my district since reconstruction. People dont like when lindsey lies to their face and its on tape. And he thinks donald trump can get away with this, so i can get away with it, but donald trump hasnt gotten away with this. Republicans were crushed in 2017 and local and state and national elections, republicans were crushed in 2018. The largest vote landslide in the history of midterm elections. Republicans fared horribly in gubernatorial races in 2019. And 2020 is not looking any better. And they keep acting this way. You go back to the question on why the second i heard this news i thought, uhoh for republicans, this isnt going to go well for republicans, and theyre just going to walk right into the trap. Its because of something that senator paul simon of illinois when he retired said. A reporter asked, what was your greatest insight in all your years in politics . And the senator said, in politics, sometimes when you win, you lose, and sometimes when you lose you win. And ive looked at this from every angle that i can, and theres just no winning hand for the republicans to play here. Now, hear me out. If you ask people if youre prolife or prochoice, youre split down the middle. I think it tilts a little more prochoice. But if you ask, do you want roe v. Wade to be overturned . As my grandmother would say, thats a horse of a different color. 75 polled earlier this year, Kaiser Family foundation, about as nonpartisan as it gets, 75 of americans do not want roe v. Wade overturned. Only 29 do. Another 29 who do want roe v. Wade overturned, ive got news for the Trump Campaign, those people stayed with you through charlottesville. Those people stayed with you through your racist comments about asshole countries run by black people. Those people stayed with you even when you were caging children on the border. Those people stayed with you through your worst offenses, your most inhumane comments. You telling people that they had great genes. You telling people getting crowds to laugh because a man got shot and knocked to the ground. Those people are with you. Where will it hurt you, donald . Among suburban voters, among women. You just look at the polls, among more educated people. Voes are the people that you need help with the most, that youre going to lose. Guess what. Susan collins, again, going back to my grandma ma, Susan Collins didnt need this. My grandma would say, i need that like i need a hole in my head. I never really knew what that meant. But Susan Collins needed this like she like she needed another tough vote. No. This is this is a nightmare for Susan Collins. Even if she votes against it. This is a nightmare for cory gardner. The last thing he needs again, stay with me. Im a guy that voted prolife nonstop. Stay with me. This is just basic politics. Cory had the 29 already. Those suburbs of denver, oh, my god, the voting turnout in denver among suburbanites. Claire mccaskill, this is not Wishful Thinking on my part at all. This is just politics 101. And id actually tweeted the night of rbgs death, pray for her family, okay, and save your hot takes because theyre all wrong. This is a nightmare for republicans. As somebody said on twitter, im quoting them, not me, Donald Trumps just too dumb politically to figure that out right now. Yeah, i was watching kasie congratulations, kasie, by the way, on way too early and i heard the representative from axios say the fallout for democrats. No, no. Its the fallout for republicans. Youre exactly right, snow. I remember the sinking sensation in my gut when i heard kennedy had resigned. Believe me, there are a half a dozen candidates for the u. S. S senate that are republican incumbents who had that same sinking sensation on friday night. This is not what they need right now. They are the ones that have the most vulnerable senators in states where roe v. Wade is going to have major, major support, along with the aca. Along with gay marriage. So, you look at people like Martha Mcsally and joni ernst and thom tillis, and obviously Susan Collins, and they are really in a very, very tough position. So, i think by the way, what makes it even tougher is they are now in full display showing the American People what liars the republicans are. They didnt say in 2016 it had something to do with the party of the president. They didnt say that. The president had been duly elected by the people and they said, no, the people get to decide in november. They never said, if we were the same party no, no, no, theyre making that up just like graham issic maing up this is the thing that really killed me about his excuse. He said it was because of what the democrats did to kavanaugh in the confirmation hearings. That tape you just played, that tape where you said where he said, hold the tape with goldberg at the atlantic where he said, i would not do this, that was after the confirmation hearing. So, he already knew what had happened in the confirmation hearing to kavanaugh when he said that. So, its just unbelievable how stupid he thinks the people he thinks the people of South Carolina are stupid. Its amazing to me. Coming up, a look at the frontrunners for the open seat on the u. S. Supreme court. Amy Coney Barrett is among the top of the list. This is decision tech. Find a stock based on your interests or whats trending. 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And done. So you can really promise better sleep . Not promise. Prove. Its our weekend special. Save up to 1,000 on the new sleep number 360 smart bed and adjustable base. Plus, 0 interest for 48 months. Ends monday. What if your clothes could stay fresh for weeks . Now they can downy unstopables inwash scent boosters keep your laundry smelling fresh way longer than detergent alone. Pour a cap of downy unstopables into your washing machine before each load and enjoy fresher smelling laundry for up to 12weeks. This towel has already been used and it still smells fresh. If you want laundry to smell fresh for weeks make sure you have downy unstopables inwash scent boosters. Welcome back. The devastating wildfires on the west coast continue to spread. Californias bobcat fire has grown to more than 103,000 acres, making it one of the largest wildfires in Los Angeles County history. The fire is only 15 contained. Lets go to bill karins for the latest on that. Bill . Mika, the fire stats are just incredible in the west. I mean, we have an army of firefighters in california alone. They gave us these stats. They said there are 19,000 firefighters currently fighting the blazes just in california. And theres 2,300 fire engines and almost 125 aircraft fighting all those blazes. We had a little bit of relief. It hasnt been quite as hot or windy but it hasnt been raining. Until it rains, the fire danger will remain high whenever it gets hot and windy again. The one thing that will change this week as we go to tuesday and wednesday, we will finally get some needed rain. Washington state and oregon. But not in california. It looks like california, the rainy season doesnt begin until december so it will take a while until we get the wet weather. Good news for our friends in oregon and washington state. Lets talk about the big weather story of the day, Tropical Storm beta will make landfall in texas. This one will remain relatively weak. The big issue is going to be rainfall with this storm. We have a flash flood threat for about 10 Million People from victoria to houston all the way up through southern portions of louisiana, including hard hit lake charles from laura and even the new orleans area. Rainfall totals could be anywhere between 5 to 10 inches, isolated to 15. If you know anything at all about the houston area, they are prone, very flood prone, even thunderstorms in the summertime can flood the city. Well watch that story closely as we go throughout the day today and tomorrow. The good news, mika, no other storms are looking ahead towards the u. S. Mainland the rest of this week. We can finally catch our break. Back to you. Bill karins, thank you very much. Coming up, one of the top ranking democrats in the u. S. Senate, member of the Judiciary Committee, dick durbin weighs in on the looming fight over the Supreme Court. Morning joe is back. When you have depression, it can plunge you into deep, dark lows. 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For over 100 years, realtors® have brought local knowledge and deep expertise to helping people find new places to dream and thrive. The next great place youll call home. So, whether youre upsizing downsizing or just ready to make a change. Look for the r. You said youll make the announcement this week. Can you tell us more about that . The beginning of the week . What day . I think it will be on friday or saturday. And we want to pay respect. It looks like it looks like we will have probably services on thursday or friday, as i understand it. And i think with all due respect we should wait until the services are over for Justice Ginsburg. So, were looking probably at friday or maybe saturday. All right. Joining us now, the second ranking democrat in the senate, member of the Judiciary Committee, minority whip, dick durbin of illinois. Great to have you on. Senator, thanks so much for being with us. Whats your reaction to the president s statement this morning that hes going to be announcing a new Supreme Court nominee on friday or saturday . Well, you think there would be at least a decent interval to honor Ruth Bader Ginsburg before the political process begins in total, but apparently not. They are bound and determine, hellbent on announcing this dom knee and clearing them as quickly as possible. Yeah. What is your reaction overall to your colleagues, Lindsey Graham, South Carolina, steve daines out of montana, guys that are in very close senatorial races this year, promising their constituents in montana and South Carolina that they would never support the nomination of a Supreme Court justice in a president ial Election Year, and then both of them lying to their voters and doing just that with statements they made after the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg . Im saddened for my republican colleagues. They have been cower ed by President Trump. Theyve been ridiculed by those in their own ranks, and Mitch Mcconnell he begged him for years ago to Say Something that they would stand by him regardless, they would not give obama an opportunity to fill this vacancy and say it was the right, proper and logical thing to do. Four years later they reverse his position and they all march behind him. Its a sad day in the senate. Unfortunately, its going to add to the division in our country. Senator, after what Mitch Mcconnell and the republicans did to merritt garland in 2016, there were many people that suggested that theres nothing sacrosanct of allowing members of the Supreme Court that number has moved, expanded at times, has nothing to do with the United States constitution, having a requirement set for nine. Of course, fdr tried to pack the court, and it was one of his biggest political failures. Im just curious, though, if this if republicans go through with this, with the back drop of merritt garland and now them doing this, is this something democrats would consider doing in 2021 . I know some have said no, but is this something you would look at, the possibility of expanding the number of members on the Supreme Court . Joe, i know you want to draw me into speculation, but im not going to that place. No, i dont. I dont want to draw you into any speculation at all. Im curious as an american and somebody who loves the Supreme Court and believes very much the legitimacy of the Supreme Court is about as important as anything in washington, d. C. So, no, i dont want to draw you into anything. Im curious what you think about that. Well, it is not just a question of legitimacy, though that is the bottom line. The first thing we need to do is to convince america of the relevancy of the Supreme Court, that literally their decision on the aAffordable Care act in the midst of a pandemic would mean millions of americans could possibly lose their Health Insurance protection. People then think, well, this isnt just an argument among the big shots in washington. This could really affect my family. Were not at that point yet. And i think we want to make it clear to the American People the importance of the Supreme Court in their daily lives. Then the question of its future, you know, im im not going to go to the place of making a determination. I think thats far in the future. We want to deal with the current vacancy on the court and the importance of that vacancy when it comes to the lives of ordinary americans. It was so moving to hear what conservatives and liberals alike on the court said about Ruth Bader Ginsburg and their remembrances. Of course, Eugene Scalia wrote a very moving piece this past weekend for the Washington Post about the special relationship between Ruth Bader Ginsburg and his father, Antonin Scalia. Im wondering what your thoughts are about the life and the legacy of Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and is there a personal moment for you that stands out about what a remarkable woman she is. Joe, i can just tell you that i have been struck by how personally moving this was for so many people. Ive been here in chicago, headed back to washington today where ill see the demonstration at the Supreme Court firsthand, but i have spoken to women in my family, who speak of her in terms that just show what an impact shes had on the lives of so many people. I had my opportunity to meet and talk with her. She was such a kind and in many ways humble person on a personal basis, but what extraordinary courage. This vaillant lady stood up against the odds her entire life, speaking up for women and those who were often forgotten by society. And i think its an incredible legacy. And to think she passed within days of john lewis, a civil rights icon, you know, it reminds us of the people in our midst who have sacrificed so much to bring us to where we are today and how it is all at stake now as we move forward with this election and with this process to fill the Supreme Court vacancy. It really does. Senator dick durbin, thank you so much. Thank you for your thoughts on Ruth Bader Ginsburgs passing and, go cubs. There is that. Go white sox, too. Go white sox, too. How exciting is that. The president said he will nominate a woman. Three sources tell nbc news that federal Appellate Court judge amy Coney Barrett has emerged as a frontrunner. Barrett was on the short list for replacing kennedy in 2018. Barrett is vetted and is a, quote, known quantity given her 2017 confirmation to sit on the 7th Circuit Court of appeals based in chicago. Republicans thought she performed well in that venue and defended herself against allegations that her religious beliefs as a catholic would color her legal judgment. Two other judges under serious consideration to fill the Supreme Court vacancy, Barbara Lagoa is a judge on the u. S. Court of appeals for the 11th circuit based in georgia, and the other is amil, on the 6th court based in cincinnati and a favorite of Senate Majority leader Mitch Mcconnell. I will tell you, amy Coney Barrett will have a lot of appeal for a lot of conservatives for a couple of different reasons. One, they know that she will not go south on any abortion ruling. They believe unlike numerous nominees from republicans in the past, she will toe the hardest of lines on roe v. Wade. I suspect some political operatives may think democrats may attack her for her religious views and some might, because she is a conservative orthodox practicing catholic, that she will be treated like an alien by some of her political opponents and that will actually accrue to her interest. I know theres a lot of other candidates, but those are two things the white house are certainly looking for right now. Lets bring in columnist and deputy Editorial Page Editor at the Washington Post, ruth marcus, nbc news analyst, howard fineman, new york law professor, melissa murray, and former Senior Adviser for the House Oversight committee, kurt bardella, senator advisior advie lincoln project. Looking at Ruth Bader Ginsburgs legacy, also looks at whats at stake with this next choice, which is within the president s right. Whats at stake . Pretty much everything. Let me explain why. In her academic writings, judge barrett has talked about her view of stare decisis which means, let it stand. Dont likely overturn precedence. She has made clear that not just with precedence based on the constitution, but with precedence based on statutes. If the Supreme Court judge is empowered to change the law, change the precedence, she thinks its wrong, she should overturn it. That willingness to overturn precedent means any number of cases could fall. Judge barrett has been critical of the courts upholding of the Affordable Care act. Shes obviously, based on both her writings and academics and her rulings from the bench, not a fan, to say the least, of roe v. Wade and abortion rights. Cases across the spectrum on race discrimination, on religious freedom, on gay rights, which she doesnt have a track record on some of those. But everything that has been decided by 54 where Justice Ginsburg was in the majority is up for grabs. Howard, youve been through so many of these nominations. Youve also been through so many president ial campaigns. Im curious what your what your read on this is, as were about five weeks out from the president ial election and people are voting right now. Well, first of all, i think Mitch Mcconnell is in charge. And hes not a betting man, joe. I dont know if youve been to the derby it, other than in the infield, but ive been there with Mitch Mcconnell up on the fourth deck and hes not a better. He doesnt like to bet on anything that isnt a sure chance. And he moves cautiously and carefully. And what hes going to do here is this. Theyre going to have these hearings, no doubt. I dont know who he wants for sure. The sixth circuit guy is his personal favorite, but that doesnt really matter. Hell want the most salable person to help him achieve what is Mitch Mcconnells number one goal, which is to remain as majority leader in the senate. And if he thinks that and apparently he does, that hearings will help some of his struggling Senate Candidates in red states get out their vote, then he will let those hearings run and get whatever political benefit he can get out of them while allowing Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski and one or two others to stray if they must. I dont think he will necessarily take a vote before the election. If he thinks he can get away with it and win, he will pounce. But the way Mitch Mcconnell operates is that he takes his time. He keeps his powder dry. He surveys the landscape. He doesnt make any decision until he absolutely has to. His number one goal is to preserve the senate because he views the senate as the last s bastian against the tides and also gives him the power and the money machine he needs. If it looks like it would cost him the senate to hold the vote before november 3rd, he wont do it. And hell wait until afterwards. Even if donald trump loses, i think he will then try to jam the thing through and say, weve got to do this because now we have the prospect of a democratic president. The only way to prevent catastrophe is to vote for whoever that nominee happens to be. Thats the game plan. I think john barrasso, who is a reliable weather vane for what mcconnell is saying, said that today. He said there will be a vote before the end of the year. He didnt say necessarily before the 3rd, but i know mcconnell and he is the apex predator and apex predators wait until precisely the right moment to pounce. You have to watch this whole thing. Alex reminds me that Mitch Mcconnell did himself talk about everybody needing to keep their powder dry for the exact reasons that youre saying, howard. Howard, help me with the politics of this because a lot of republicans seemed gleeful at the possibility of having this as a campaign issue. My first thought was that this whether they have it before or after the election, this is pretty much, i think, spells doom for susan susan coln in maine. Its real problems for cory gardner in colorado. Its terrible for Martha Mcsally in the suburbs of phoenix. You know, Kaiser Family foundations poll earlier this year saying that americans are more split on whether they call themselves plro life or pro choice. But only 23 wanted roe v. Wade to be overturned. How does this help republicans . How does this help Mitch Mcconnell . I dont know that it necessarily, does but what mcconnell is going to try to look at, and what hes going to try to game plan with the white house is to see which of those potential nominees might possibly help them in a couple of red states where theyre going to rely on the turnout of an enthusiastic base. And, you know, whether that will work or not, i dont really know. Whether it will help donald trump, i dont really know. I think the expectation of the Trump Campaign is that were going to change the subject. Well have all this discussion about the Supreme Court. Were not going to talk about coronavirus. Were not going to talk about the millions and millions of unemployed. Were not going to talk about the 200,000 deaths. I think the American People are locked into that. And i dont know that all of this rearranging of the deck chairs in washington is going to affect that. I think my sense is that mcconnell is expecting that trump could lose. And mcconnells objective is to somehow, some way preserve his majority in the senate at least enough to get through this vote in a lameduck. If they lose the senate, after january 20th, excuse me, starting in january, you know, so be it. Hes going to try to jam it. And hes going to tell them the Republican Caucus, this is our last chance. As far as trump is concerned, trumps behind. Mcconnell knows that. Mcconnells objective is a supermajority on the Supreme Court. Hes already filled up all the circuits. Almost all of his hay is in the barn. He wants that last, last thing, and i wouldnt bet against his getting it. So melissa murray, looking at these potential these three who appear to be on the short list, this announcement that is expected to happen friday or saturday. What does this tell you about Donald Trumps thinking or the white houses strategy in terms of what they want . Well, one thing it tells me is that they want a quick confirmation process. Two of the nominees were already short listed for the seat that Brett Kavanaugh occupies so the vetting process for amul thapar and amy Coney Barrett has been done. Barbara lagoa, theres been some vetting for her but shes gained a lot of momentum within the administration because shes a cuban american from a swing state that the president is desperate to capture in the 2020 election. So theres a lot of momentum behind her. What we know about all three of these nominees is that they will be 180 degrees away from the person whose seat they will fill, Ruth Bader Ginsburg. While Barbara Lagoa and amy Coney Barrett are both women, thats where similarities will begin and end. Theyll not share the same judicial philosophy our views of equality and autonomy that rbg espoused during her career. Kurt bardella, im curious. You like me, were both former republicans. I remembered how conservative to moderate members of the Republican Caucus would run for cover whenever there was a debate on abortion issues because they found themselves in an untenable position. And while all republicans were celebrating, i thought ghoulishly, on the night of Ruth Bader Ginsburgs death. Not all republicans, but all the republicans who seemed to be, on that night thinking that this was a big political win. I immediately thought about Susan Collins fighting for her political life in maine. I immediately thought about tom tillis and North Carolina, whose demographics has changed radically over the last ten years. Cory gardner and now hes going to get wiped out in the suburbs of denver now. I thought about Martha Mcsally how shes going to get wiped out in suburbs across phoenix. Because not only are republicans conservative. Theres a libertarian streak, even in the most conservative areas where they say, stay out of my checkbook and stay out of my bedroom. Yep. Thats right. My mind immediately went to my former boss, Olympia Snowe in terms of how she would have handled a situation like this. And youre right. For and Claire Mccaskill was talking about this earlier. For those members, there was that feeling in the pit of their stomach when this news hit, the moment they realized theyre screwed. This is devastating for the Senate Republicans chances to retain the majority. Its interesting this conversation about conservativism that were going to have and the people who are celebrating rbgs death who claim to be conservatives who claim to be prolife and when i always think about when i hear that now is i dont know how you can claim to be prolife when 200,000 americans are dead. When the sentiment amongst the Republican Party is, it is what it is with this massive casualty of death that were seeing every single day. And i hope that democrats, as they gear up for this fight do not let donald trump or republicans off the hook for the death toll with the coronavirus. Every single time a republican says the word pro life, they need to be out there reminding the American People how theyve been so casual about that. So casual about leaving our seniors vulnerable to the coronavirus. Sending our children to schools where they know theyll get sick. Holding massive Coronavirus Spread rallies. This make america sick again tour that donald trump is on. I hope that every time during this Supreme Court fight we hear prolife democrats are aggressive and decisive and definitive at labeling this party, the Republican Party, the party of death because thats what the coronavirus has done to this country. Well, you can look at that, look at the seniors who have been thrown overboard who have died. The greatest generation. You can look at children being locked away in cages. I want to go to the professor about this. Children on the border being locked in cages. You look at the reports out of georgia of forced hysterectomies in i. C. E. Facilities. And professor, its just a stretch, if were being polite about this. Its a stretch for donald trump to try to present himself and his party as the party of life in the age of the coronavirus and in the age of caged children and in the age of forced hysterectomies. And i. C. E. Facilities. Youre exactly right. There are so many different accounts of what has been happening on the border, whats happening to women in i. C. E. Detention centers that confound this narrative of a prolife presidency. This extends to senator mcconnell. As you noted on this show before, there are a number of different relief packages pending at the senate that would help Many Americans who have been absolutely devastated by the pandemic, whether its economically or as kurt says, the casual loss of life this administration has tolerated. The fact that leader mcconnell will continue to push through judges and hold hearings on judges when they will not work with the democrats to pass some of these relief packages says everything you need to know about the prolife leanings of this party. New York University law professor melissa marie, the Washington Post ruth marcus, political analyst Howard Feinman and kurt bardella. Thank you all for being on this morning. That does it for us this morning. Stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after this final oneminute break. This is the feeling of total protection now that we protect your identity, mobile phone, auto, home and life youve never been in better hands allstate click or call for a quote today tempurpedics mission truly transformative sleep. So, no more tossing and turning. Because only tempurpedics proprietary material adapts and responds to your body so you get deep, uninterrupted sleep. Take advantage of our best offer of the year, with savings up to 500. Hi there. Im stephanie ruhle. It is monday, september 21st. Lets get smarter. In a year that has already seen a global pandemic, nationwide protests and one of the most contentious president ial races in our nations history, we now add a Supreme Court battle. The death of Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg last friday dramatically raises the stakes for the election just 43 days away, as well as the future of the high court. So if you think it has been rough thus far it is time to buckle up. President trump said today hell announce his pick to replace Justice Ginsburg on friday or saturday. Instead and said a confirmation vote should happen before the election