Transcripts For MSNBCW Morning Joe 20141125 11:00:00 : compa

>> no probable cause exist to file any charge against officer wilson and return a no true bill on each of the five indictments. >> as soon as mr. mcculloch announced the victim the officer started to take rocks and batteries. i heard 150 shots fired. [ gunshot ] >> we are a nation built on the rule of law. we need to accept that this decision was the grand jury's to make. there are americans who agree with it and americans who are deeply disappointed even angry.
i join michael's parents in asking anyone who protests this decision to do so peacefully. [ gunshot ] >> our community has got to take some responsibility for what happened tonight. we talk about peaceful protests and that did not happen tonight. welcome to "morning joe." tuesday november 25th, a lot to cover today with us on set. mike barnacle. information communications director for president george w. bush nicole wallace. and associate professor at columbia university school of international and public affairs dorian warren and associate editor of "the washington post" and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson. the headlines today very clear. no charges on the front page of "usa today." the "new york post" streets of rage. from the "daily news," americale
holds its breath. from the "new york times," grand jury chooses not to indict officer. and "wall street journal" officer not charged in killing. there's so much to talk about. unfortunately, i think the first thing that we would, i would at least want to know is why the hell, why the hell did they release this information the way they did. why did they have this build up, this slow crescendo, this slow crescendo to say we'll be announcing at 9:00. most people knew how this was going to come down. just given sort of what local authorities have been suggesting before and all the calls for calm. and then to announce i want at 9:00 at night. >> the time lapse was mystifying. >> mind-boggling a community and state that so mishandled this
case from the very beginning continued to mishandle it at the very end. and the results, gene robinson, very predictable. they were horrible results. "the washington post" talking about at least two police cars and half a dozen buildings were set aflame. people looted liquor and convenience stores. the missouri authorities, president obama and brown's family had requested, while the president was making his request on a split screen while the riots were going on. people are responsible for their own actions and it was horrific the actions that were engaged in but i can't believe that the officials in missouri couldn't have done a better job after botching this case and let's face it, botching the way ferguson's police department was run for so many years. >> yeah. this was totally foreseeable. and, you know, look i hate conspiracy theories. i spent a lot of time telling people how dumb their conspiracy theories are.
but if you wanted to, you know, if you knew you were going to announce it and you wanted to shift attention to the reaction away from the decision itself, well i guess this would be a way to do it. this would certainly be a, you know, an awful way to do it. but why in the world do you announce this thing at 9:00 at night? i just don't -- i'll never understand that. especially when the decision apparently was ready at 2:00 p.m. or something like that. >> 2:00 in the afternoon. you have been doing the police officers a favor, the black owned small businesses that were torched last night. you would have done the family a favor. >> people who went out to protest peacefully and you would be doing them a favor. >> if you were going to go out and protest peacefully you would do it at 3:00 in the afternoon. you would not do it given thirst of hats been going on since august at 9:00 at night. willie geist why don't we get
everybody caught up in case they are just waking up right now to exactly what happened last night not just in ferguson but across america. >> this continued deep into the night. let's get right to it. unrest broke out moments after the county prosecutor announced grand jury verdict did not indict officer darren wilson. that's the police officer who shot and killed michael brown, an unarmed teenager in august. this is one of the results of the protests, at least a dozen businesses in ferguson going up in flames including a drugstore and a pizza restaurant. protesters also set fire to numerous vehicles including at least two police cars. other police vehicles damaged after being vandalized. some demonstrators smashed windows. there was some gunfire as you heard earlier and looting was reported at several stores in the area. president obama addressed the country last night urging demonstrators to show restrain but as joe just said it was a remarkable split screen. his speech came just as the violence began to unfold
creating some pretty surreal images on tv. >> let's look at this. do you think somebody at the white house might have figured this out. i'll ask nicole, do you think somebody at the white house might have figured this out that maybe the speech should have been before the announcement so you don't have that split screen right now going last night? >> the speech couldn't before the announcement because he had to react to the announcement and there's nothing the white house can do how the cable networks will handle it. they all used the split screen. it was horrendously -- >> since people knew -- seemed to know what was coming down. seemed like everybody was tipping their hand at 2:00 in the afternoon. i'm curious if you wouldn't have a peremptory speech, nicole wallace. >> i thought he should have gone there. i think the most brilliant speech of his presidency was his speech on race. i think that the words he used last night were perfectly crafted. they were not written and handed to him by some speech writer. i think they came from his heart.
i think that the white house staring at a bunch of bad options. i'm impressed they went ahead. they didn't cut him short. they were watching that too. they were watching this. they knew what was happening. it was important enough for them. i actually think the fact that he stood in the briefing room, he gave his remarks, he took questions because i had a moment where i thought, you know, he's going to rush out of there. he didn't. i actually think as the days go on it will endure as a powerful message that he delivered and i hope he keeps it up. i hope he does visit ferguson in the coming days. >> it was one of his better moments and he spoke clearly for the last ten minutes. >> that was the best part of the speech. >> it gets back to your original question that you pose, though. why they wait seven, eight hours for a crowd to gather on the streets, give the crowd eight hours to gather and to get ready when they had so many options. they could have delayed this
announcement until tomorrow afternoon, the eve of thanksgiving at about 4:00 in the afternoon. they could have done anything. >> the thing is they tipped their hat i had no where over the weekend. i still thought over the weekend the police officer would be indicted. when they started -- when officials started coming out early urging calm, urging calm, urging calm, you knew how this movie would end. >> we all knew. what also infuriated people watching the press conference from mcculloch. the 25 minutes of explanation as to why no indictment. he looked like a defense attorney in that moment and not a prosecutor. if there's that much to explain then why not take it to trial, right? so i think it was the long press conference that really infuriated people of the explanation, the detail, you know, talking about contradictory witness testimony all of that stuff infuriated people even more so. >> gene robinson you brought up a good point in "way too early." you look at the evidence and the
evidence looks like there's not a jury, there's not a jury in missouri that probably would convict this police officer if you look at all the evidence. that said, you usually take care of that in trials where you are in grand juries you are actually -- you're the prosecutor. you are doing michael brown's bidding. not doing justice's bidding as far as with a blindfold. you're not the defense attorney and the prosecutor. you're looking if there's probable cause to possibly convict this police officer, that didn't happen from the very beginning. for whatever reason. >> you're there to represent the victim and society. you're the prosecutor. you're not there to represent the defendant. and the standard is, as you said, is probable cause. it's not reasonable doubt. >> low, low standard. >> very low standard. and do you not have probable cause when you have, you know,
an unarmed young man who is shot multiple times by a police officer, you saw the photos of officer wilson and despite those early reports about a broken eye subjective. he had a contusion. i read the medical report to go home and take aleve. that was the extent of his treatment that night. so, all that -- >> leads to probable cause. >> to believe a crime was committed. >> again, what i said at first looking at all this evidence, you're not going -- i just don't think you're going to find evidence to convict this officer. but that's not the stage we're at. we're at a much different stage and, willie, that obviously will cause some concerns i think with legal scholars moving forward. >> don't you know as an attorney
an indictment hearing you just give a loose sketch of the evidence that you have to get probable cause. it's unclear to me how it took months and months. clearly the prosecutor laid out every detail of the case. >> 25 hours of testimony. they heard 60 witnesses. but what i'm curious about now there are two federal investigations, one into the case, and one into whether or not there was a pattern of civil rights abuses by the ferguson police department. but i feel like the signal is coming out of the doj and the stories read obviously from sources are that they don't look likely to find him culpable either. >> they are not going to. >> why? >> because the standard is so much higher. at this level -- again, we're talking about the standard, mike, and hell, you know this. all the years you were a reporter. this standard is so low when you're looking at a grand jury
situation. >> this is the lowest bar. >> this was the lowest bar. you start going to the federal, where a doj is bringing a federal case the bar is so much higher. >> without this those cases -- >> last week -- >> look at it independently. the standard is so much higher. bluntly if you look at the evidence, the evidence does seem to support the officer. that said -- i'm talking about at the end of the day. that said though, mike that's not what these type of hearings are about. that's not hat grand juries are about. we think this is a bad guy. look at the evidence we have against this guy. look what he did to shareholders. i want to take him to trial. the grand jury goes okay that's basically it. >> last week i spoke to a prosecutor a friend of mine who has done hundreds of grand juries and we should point out that the grand jury is 12 jurors seated at a picnic table not a jury box. >> these are ferguson residents,
people of ferguson. >> you got 12 jurors selected. they have been sitting there for four, five months. this was a case referred to them. you got the prosecutor in the room and you got witnesses who come in and testify. the prosecutor does the questioning. the five counts that perhaps could have been leveled for an indictment against, against the police officer here, at a minimum, at a minimum the prosecutor that i spoke to said i would bet you a lot of money that they will end up with involuntary manslaughter. at least one. based on what they have. based on the evidence. >> a lot of people say why would do you that as i'm saying the evidence we look at shows a jury will not be able to convict him because any lawyer will tell you you never know what happens when you walk through that door. there have been a lot of cases that i've seen great lawyers handle that started, they said this looks like a losing case
and then you take a deposition, you get some evidence, you start pulling on a string and suddenly the entire new truth is revealed. maybe that wouldn't happen here. maybe it would. we're not going to find out. >> the range of options as mike said, first degree murder. required some premeditation. involuntary manslaughter some people thought would have come up. let's talk about this grand jury. seven men, fire women, three african-americans, nine whites on that grand jury. county prosecutor robert mcculloch said the vote will remain anonymous. he said reliable eyewitnesses testified that michael brown charged at officer wilson before he was shot. mcculloch says there were multiple witnesses who either changed their stories or gave conflicting accounts. he also said three autopsies contradicted witnesses who claimed they saw brown shot in the back. >> i'm ever mindful this decision will not be accepted by
some and may cause disappointment for others. but all decisions in the criminal justice system must be determined by the physical and scientific evidence and the credible testimony corroborated by that evidence. not in response to public outcry or for political expediency. >> mcculloch didn't mention in his statement that brown was unarmed when he was shot however he did single out the media saying they contributed to unrest after the shooting initially. these are photos of officer wilson after his altercation with brown. wilson testified brown first hit him when he approached the teen about a robbery. the officer said he warned brown he would shoot if brown did not get back at which time brown grabbed at wilson's gun and twisted it around. wilson says brown looked like a demon during their altercation. this is all from the testimony to the grand jury and that he drew his gun out of fear, another punch would knock him out. officer wilson added when he
grabbed the teenager who is 6'4" he said quote i felt like a 5-year-old holding on to hulk hogan. after the grand jury announcement wilson's attorneys released a statement which read in part law enforcement personnel must frankly make split second and difficult dess. officer wilson followed his training and followed the law. michael brown's mother cried and screamed when she learned officer wilson would not be indicted. in a statement the brown family said in part we're profoundly disappointed that the killer of our child will not face the consequences of his actions. join with us in our campaign to ensure that every police officer working the streets in this country wear as body camera. we respectfully ask that you please keep your protests peaceful. answering violence with violence is not the appropriate reaction. the brown family conducting itself with incredible grease and their request was not met in ferguson last night. >> what sounds to me like a
perfectly reasonable request. and position to take. body cameras would have told us a lot more about what happened. we wouldn't have to have this duelling, conflicting testimony. we would have a record of this encounter. and, you know, i guess some officers at least in ferguson are now wearing cameras. i wish that were much more widespread. >> no doubt about it. that's hopefully that is one thing that can come out of this tragedy. i don't really understand why, mike, there wouldn't be body cameras on cops. i want helps the cops. it helps the good cops. it helps citizens as i've said repeatedly only people that don't want that are bad cops. they do bad things. use their position of authority to push people around. at times to hurt them and at times to kill them.
and we need every cop in america to have a camera on them. >> commissioner bratton said that when he was here after the protest, nypd is the largest police department in the country that they are looking at it and it's a cost issue for a lot of police departments but you're absolutely right the only people who can oppose it are the ones who don't want everyone to see. >> every profession, gene, has bad actors. i think for the most part law enforcement officers do a great job and i commend them forgoing out and putting their lives on the line every night. i think it's in their best interest that the two, three, four, five percent of people in uniforms that act like punks from time to time have cameras. if they do that 5% will become 0% really quickly. >> it's in the interest of all good cops and not in the interest of the bad cops. so there ought to be cameras. one thing we ought to mention is that there were protests last night, peaceful protests in cities around the country.
including here in washington, in los angeles, in new york. there was a big protest. so, you know, this became a national issue and nationally there was, there was a big response, and for the most part in its vast majority and appropriate response to what frankly most people see as a miscarriage of justice and, you know, we'll have to go forward from here. it's a bad place to start from but we have to go forward from here and see what good can come out of this awful and i think unnecessary tragedy. >> all right. there you see pictures of a march in front of the white house. there were marches, of course, throughout new york city including right outside our newsroom on sixth avenue, in oakland, seattle, los angeles and chicago, across america. we'll have much more of this ahead on "morning joe". events coming out of ferguson, missouri also ahead.
who says the obama administration can't create jobs. the story behind defense secretary position that's now open in his administration and the parallels between george w. bush and barack obama frightening. frightening. both of them firing the secretary of defense after a second term thumping. plus some nice moments from yesterday's medal of freedom ceremony including the president getting star struck. lebron james speaks out for the first time about the cleveland cavs very slow start this season. willie, i don't get it. >> they will pull it together. >> they will be in the finals. >> you know they will. we'll be back. [ male announcer ] are you so stuffed up, you feel like you're underwater?
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♪ time to take a look at the morning papers. willie why don't we start in des
moines. >> "des moines register." the iowa man arrested outside of the white house last week with a rival, ammunition and a knife in his car has pleaded guilty to misdeamnor charges. he faces up to two years of prison when sentenced in january. he was ordered to be held without bond. >> democratic national committee announced three cities still in the running to host the party's 2016 convention. they are new york. >> good spot. >> philadelphia. >> really? one of the best conventions i've ever been. >> everybody groaned in 2000. it was a blast. incredible city. and columbus, i got relatives there. that's good too. three for three. pennsylvania and ohio could be critical swing states in the next presidential election. republicans think that pennsylvania would be a critical swing state but it never is. it's fool's gold as i've been saying for a couple of decades now. they will spend a lot of money in august, september and by
mid-october they will slouch out there and do the walk of shame. dnc may move its convention week up from august to mid-july. thank you for trying to ruin my july. i won't let you do it. >> he won't thereabout. "new york post," new york governor andrew cuomo said weather forecasters are to blame as criticism mounts. governor cuomo said they were unaware it would snow that hard in a short amount of time. the governor seemed to take a page from mayor bill de blasio's book who blamed the city on failing to shut the school. every meteorologist will tell you this was predicted. bill karins. >> ignore bill karins. >> al roker, anybody will tell you they saw this coming. >> yeah, bill. >> only said five feet.
>> he said we only said five feet not seven. >> we'll let nicole -- >> i get to do one. >> leaving miami. >> i need that. >> we want you to read this. >> i can do it? is it snaen "usa today" before monday night's game against the orlando magic lebron james delivered a blunt assessment of his play so far this season. i stink he said. i'm not doing my volleyball. i love him even more. the cavs were on a four game losing streak heading in to last night's week but james bounced back scoring 29 points and leading cleveland to their sixth win of the season. >> we all know they are going to end up like in the finals. >> yeah. >> there's 70 games left. >> turn on your tv memorial day and you'll get a good sense on whether the cavs -- >> we'll be talking about moving the republican convention up. >> the "new york daily news,"
meryl streep, stevie wonder and tom brokaw were among the recipients of the medal of honor. it's the highest civilian honor for those who give service to arts, science and politics. thle kennedy was also among the honores. the president professed his love for meryl streep. >> i love meryl streep. i love her. her husband knows i love her. michele knows i love her. there's nothing either can do about it. >> who doesn't love meryl streep. >> i love that. the presidents love these ceremonies. their own heroes and idols. >> tell us about george w. bush. >> mohamed ali. he talked about it for days and weeks. one of the high lights of his presidency. >> tom brokaw. incredible honor. >> fantastic.
all right. coming up what today's editorial writer pages are saying about what happened in ferguson last night. our must read opinion pages straight ahead. ♪ it's not about how many miles you can get out of the c-max hybrid. it's about how much life you can fit into it. ♪ the ford c-max hybrid. with an epa-estimated range of 540 miles on a tank of gas. and all the room you need to enjoy the trip. go stretch out. go further.
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time now for the most read op ed. this from "the washington post," chuck hagel's departure, president obama is turning into george w. bush, something george w. bush nor barack obama would appreciate. president obama is morphing under -- into the president whose foreign policy he campaigned to overturn. as with bush the ouster comes as the war in the middle east is going badly. rumsfield outer led to the surge in iraq. hagel's departure marks an expanded role in iraq and syria. obama will lead a successor in ongoing war in the mid east quite possibly the sort of ground war that obama vowed to undo. you never really do, do you,
nicole, what's going to happen when you go into the white house is this >> i think what's clear from all the coverage of the hagel resignation or firing, what ever we're calling it this morning is that foreign policy is run out of the west wing of the white house. that hagel was never in the loop. that was not -- that's where the parallel ends. that have not the case, rumsfield was very powerful. and that he never really had the -- you would never guess. for better and for worse. believe me. but he was never very well liked. i remember being on a show when they were appointing him and he a disastrous confirmation party. i think gates was so good. gates was the sort of the anti-rumsfield. really a technocrat to have
command and control of the military and have the president's ear and make alliances within the cabinet. hagel was the polar opposite. >> mike, this got ugly pretty quickly with the white house leaking immediately that hagel wasn't up to the job and hagel's people leaking immediately that the white house was micromanaging too much. >> having nothing to do with clearly the fact that chuck hagel was never on message or in sync with the west wing of the white house. >> it's fascinating. neither he nor joint staff of chiefs are in sync. you have this public squabble which is bizarre. >> a public squabble to my smind horrific indictment of how truly sick washington, d.c. is and how truly filled with a lot of cowards this administration is with all of these unnamed sources, criticizing chuck hagel no matter what you think of his
job performance who served in vietnam, who served in the united states senate. >> who took this job that he really wasn't looking for. >> now they are sniping at him without names a senior administration source who didn't want to be named because of whatever, just outrageous. >> it is a dysfunctional, dysfunctional foreign policy team in the white house when you have, again, you have the chairman of the joint chiefs, the secretary of defense, others going out making statements that the president then shoots down in press conferences. and i remember talking to reporters saying no, no that press conference that wasn't aimed at the american people that was aimed at members of his own administration. bizarre. let's go to gene robinson. he writes this in the "the washington post." chuck hagel's replacement must be cautious. surprise to see president obama fire somebody. but i have to worry that defense secretary chuck hagel's forced
departure may signal further expansion of u.s. military involvement in iraq and syria. hagel's public statements may have been all over the map, but he has a demonstrated aversion to deploying u.s. combat troops without a clear mission. it's hard to see how the united states avoid becoming mired not in iraq's seccian struggles but in syria's apocalyptic civil war. gene, in most cases if you have somebody working for you who believe war is hell, hire somebody who has fought in a war. there's one or two exceptions. but in most cases, that's what chuck hagel brought to the job a skepticism you should shoot first and ask questions later. >> in his public statements he was all over the map on isis. at times he went beyond where president obama was willing to
go. other times you saw that sort of inate caution come through, that caution born of his service in vietnam and his realization that sending u.s. troops into combat is not something to be done lightly. and so my question just looking at the resignation and coming switch what does this mean for our policy in iraq and syria for this new intervention that seems to be proceeding full steam ahead towards what, i don't quite understand. i don't quite know how this, how this develops and how this possibly ends when you get in the middle of syria's civil war. you approach this with all due caution because you don't see a lot of light at the end of this tunnel that we're going into. >> it's pretty remarkable when you think two years ago when hagel came in the president was thinking of unwinding two wars.
now we're sending 3,000 troops back in iraq. "new york times" reports over the weekend more troops going to afghanistan. these wars are ramping up, may not be the right term but we're not leaving. >> it's definitely radical departure from the stance that the president came into office with in terms of disengaging from wars and from conflicts. this is the opposite, right? as you put it we're ramping up. in fact the firing of hagel will not change that. it's not going signal a huge shift in foreign policy. the administration is still confused at best in trying to figure out what its next policy agenda is in terms of the rest of the world. >> they are going to have to get a lot more engaged. they just are. whether the president wants to or not. that's not coming from what i personally want to do. they have to get a lot more engaged. they are halfway in a battle with an organization that's fully, fully in, all in. >> one of the big stories, largely uncovered because it's
tough to cover in a certain sense is the lack of communication between the pentagon and the white house. >> yeah. >> remarkable. >> if you want -- if you want to find people who are truly cautious, truly conservative about any approach to the middle east go the pentagon. go the pentagon. >> no doubt. you would love to see the president actually get somebody in there that's strong. i mean maybe it sounds a lot of warning bells but a guy like david petraeus who has actually done this before and took the fight to -- >> the training and counter insurgency strategy. he wrote it. >> anwar province and actually made a difference. gene, we'll let you quickly respond with something more than your al gore like sigh. i'm talking about somebody who is strong enough to come to the white house mr. president if you want to win this is how you win.
if you don't want to win then let's get them all out of here. this middle ground is going to do nothing but get some americans killed and further tarnish our reputation. >> i'm in favor of getting out of the middle ground. i won't argue against that. yeah. in fact if somebody has a bright idea -- if somebody has got an idea of how you turn the iraqi army into a fighting machine that can defeat isis and how you find these elusive moderate rebels in syria who are going to defeat islamic state but can't be found, you know, if somebody can do that then great. let's hear a plan that makes some sense and then go do it. but do you see this working the way it's going now? >> no. i think this is an absolute disaster but it's because the president is inching his way in. he's leading from behind. there needs somebody there to go in and say if this is feasible and i'm hearing more and more
foreign policy people telling me my idea is not crazy, arm the kurds to the teeth. do whatever it takes. figure out a strategy for the kurds to take over the northern part of iraq. that short area. you protect it. you nail it down. you got it. turkey is not helping us. syria is a nightmare. isis is running through the middle. so go ahead kurds take care of that and then have us go back to anbar province. he's done it once. have him do it again. if you do those two things alone, gene, you cut isis off at the neck. if you do those two things then they can still fight, let them fight assad in syria. they won't be able to move in iraq if you do those two things. but that takes a lot of courage. that takes staring down the turks, that takes staring down a
lot of other people. we have richard haas coming up. >> joe, just recall when david petraeus worked his magic the last time he had 100,000 or so u.s. troops backing him up. so it's quite a bit different there. >> you know what else he had too? he was able -- we can't have troops in. you know what else he? he could go to people in anwar province and say we're going to give you money. we're going to give you weapons bp more importantly you don't have to worry about crazy shia from baghdad coming out and killing you. >> they do have to bother that now. >> they do. you're exactly right. that's what they are going to have to figure out. if we have to partition iraq we'll have to partition. not us. but the iraqies international community. this is not work. coming up next we'll bring in richard haas to talk about this more and tell us all why i'm so wrong straight ahead.
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iraqi. yirky. ira when i nominated you for this position you said you would always give me your honest advice and informed counsel. you have. when it's mattered most behind closed doors in the oval office you've always given to it me straight and for that i'm grateful. >> with us now we have richard haas and nbc news chief pentagon correspondent jim miklaszewski. good days between the pentagon and the white house. just how irrelevant -- just how irrelevant, i'm serious, how irrelevant to leaders at the pentagon feel lately under this administration? >> reporter: well, you know, it
was interesting that quite frankly, look, chuck hagel is a greet guy but from the very ginger never seemed to be the right fit but he's exactly what the white house wanted at the time. somebody who could oversee the final withdrawal of american troops from iraq and take care of the nuts and bolts budget, the nitty gritty domestic stuff that the pentagon often has to deal with. but nobody anticipated the chemical weapons standoff with syria, isis of course and even the white house is going to give the american troops left in iraq more leeway to actually continue the battle against the taliban. >> it's been the damnest thing. you got the chairman of the joint chiefs going on the hill constantly saying things a couple of steps ahead of where the president wants to be. i remember chuck hagel talking about isis being the greatest threat since 2001 and i was thinking i don't think the
president wants that being said. it seems everybody at the pentagon, a couple of steps ahead of the white house. is that because they feel the white house needs to get engaged in a more forceful way. >> i'm not sure they need to get engaged in a horse forceful way but more realistic way to confront the challenges that many here in the military have seen for some time and richard haas will tell you that the military is all about planning well in advance so they are thinking in advance too. and i know i'm taking a real risk here but i have to challenge mike barnacle on the idea that there's no communication between the pentagon and the white house. there is. but it's all one way. it's white house to the pentagon. and seriously when you get strong secretaries of defense like robert gates and leon panetta just over a week ago to both lambaste the micromanage
they impose on the pentagon something is amiss. >> i was wondering if you think hagel will join this chorus of panetta and gates and frankly from former president jimmy carter who have been harshly critical of this house. >> reporter: i would be surprised. you know one of the things about hey fwel that people talk about here is what a gentleman he is. as a matter of fact, after one news conference, that news conference here at the pentagon where hagel, in fact, said look this is like nothing we've ever seen before. it was in response to my aggressive questioning to him and somebody came to me later and said, you know, jim, the secretary thinks you were a little rude. >> wow. >> reporter: so he was sort of an en impenigma. >> richard haas what does this decision by the white house tell you about the posture they are
taking now. if chuck hagel wasn't the right guy for the moment what kind of guy is and what does that mean? where are we going. >> it tells nothing. they will get somebody who they are comfortable with. that's the most important criteria. they will get a known entity. they don't want to get somebody who will go out afterwards and write a difficult book. >> that's so troubling. when rumsfield left, found ga t gates. >> there's some talented people out there. there's ash carter and others. the real challenge at the pentagon goes beyond what we're talking about. you have the sequester in place. a growing gap of resources available and the challenges. not just the middle east. you have a mini war going on in europe, in russia and ukraine. you have to strengthen nato. a pivot to asia. we have to increase air and naval presence out there.
you got massive retirement, massive health care costs after two wars and it's not adding up. you got this growing crisis and sequester kicks in, new set of cuts next october. that's what the joint chiefs is about. that's what the next secretary of defense is to be all about. >> stay with us. we want to ask you about our three step plan to blow iraq completely apart. jim thank you for being with us. coming up next how social media even the national media may have played in the ferguson grand jury verdict. that's straight ahead. ronald reagan: i've spoken of the "shining city" all my
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♪ the most significant challenge encountered in this investigation has been the 24 hour news cycle and its appetite for something, for anything to talk about. following closely behind with nonstop rumors on social media. i recognize, of course, that the lack of accurate detail surrounding the shooting frustrates the media and the general public and helps breeds suspicion among those already distrustful of the system. >> that was st. louis prosecutor robert mcculloch scolding the media while announcing the grand jury decision not to indict officer darren wilson. as demonstrators reacted to news coast to coast some peacefully,
some not, we have legal questions is your roupding the grand jury decision and the police chief for dekalb county, georgia also for his take on the protests. we'll be right back to figure out what exactly happened inside that grand jury room. opportunity. that's the real walmart. a woman who loves to share her passions. grandma! mary has atrial fibrillation, an irregular heartbeat not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts her at a greater risk of stroke. rome? sure! before xarelto®, mary took warfarin,
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>> as soon as more mcculloch announced the verdict the officers started to take rocks and batteries. i personally heard 150 shots fired. [ gunshot ] >> we are a nation built on the rule of law. we need to accept that this decision was the grand jury's to make. there are americans who agree with it. there are men's who are deeply disappointed and even angry. i join michael's parents in joining anyone who protests this decision does it peacefully. >> our community has to take responsibility for what happened tonight. we talked about peaceful protests and that didn't happen tonight. >> welcome back to "morning joe." eugene robinson is still here. with us to join the conversation co-host of msnbc "the cycle." let's go to the news and then talk about what exactly happened
inside that grand jury room and also what's been happening across the country overnight. >> let's talk about what's happening in ferguson right now. violence did erupt in parts of ferguson last night. the unrest breaking out moments after the county prosecutor announced a grand jury did not indict darren wilson. the white police officer who shot and killed michael brown, an unarmed black teen back in august. this is one of the results of the protests at least a dozen businesses going up in flames including a drugstore and a pizza place. protesters also set fire to numerous vehicles including at least two police cars. other police vehicles were damaged after being vandalized. some demonstrators smashed windows. there was gunfire and looting was reported at several stores in the area. president obama addressed the nation late last night urging demonstrators to show restraint. but as you can see there in that split screen his speech came as the violence began to unfold creating some pretty surreal
images across tv last night. police officers used smoke and tear gas to break up some of the protests. officials say at least 29 protesters were arrested while no lives were lost police say the unrest will have a long term impact on the city of ferguson. >> our community has got to take some responsibility for what happened tonight. for what happened tonight as far as tearing our community apart. this cannot happen. we talk about peaceful protests and that did not happen tonight. we definitely have done something here that is going to impact our community for a long time and impact our region. that is not how we create change. change is created through our voice and not through destruction of our community. >> yeah. gene robinson, obviously a lot of concern about what happened last night. "the washington post" talking about the looting of locally owned liquor stores, convenience stores, a lot of black businesses actually burned to
the ground. but at the same time we were talking an hour ago about officials and just the decisions that they made on when to release this information. really curious. you said you're not a conspiracy theorist but if you were -- >> if i was -- >> you can put together a pretty good conspiracy theory. >> right. you could say that the prosecutor knew there would be no indictment because he wanted this to be no indictment and wanted to shift attention from the fact that there would be no charges to the reaction to the decision. and, therefore, you announce it at 9:00 at night after a day long build up in which you essentially invite people to be anxious and to get worked up. and that's what happened. >> mike barnacle, you can almost say it was like a crescendo. i said over the weekend i still
thought the police officer without knowing any of the evidence, because i'm not in the grand jury room, but i just assumed that he would be charged. >> yeah. >> but starting, mike, on yesterday morning when police officers started urging calm, one after another after another after another and close to the decision you could just see -- it was almost like a crescendo building up and at 9:00 at night boom they drop it. and it seemed like the officials had messed this up so often even at the end. >> certainly mystifying they arrived, the grand jury has concluded their verdict. 1:00 in the afternoon we find out, 2:00 in the afternoon the grand jury has rendered a verdict and then basically six or seven hours inviting a crowd to have gathered, grow, assemble. six or seven years. mystifying why that decision was
made last night and announced at 9:00 at night. >> let's talk more about the grand jury's decision not to indict darren wilson. the grand jury was made up of seven men five women, three african-americans and nine whites. this is a grand jury picked back in may before this incident took place, a sitting grand jury. the county prosecutor robert mcculloch said the vote will remain anonymous. he said reliable eyewitnesses testified brown charged at wilson before he was shot. multiple witnesses changed their stories or gave conflicting accounts. mcculloch said three autopsies contradicted witnesses who claim they saw brown shot in the back. >> i'm ever mindful that this decision will not be accepted by some and may cause disappointment for others but all decisions in the criminal justice system must be determined by the physical and scientific evidence and the credible testimony corroborated by that evidence.
not in response to public outcry or for political expediency. >> mcculloch did not mention in his statement that michael brown was unarmed when he was shot. mcculloch did single out the media, those saying it contributed to the unrest after the shooting in august. now these are some of the photos released last night of officer wilson after his altercation with brown. wilson testified that brown hit him when he first approached the teen about a robbery. officer wilson says he warned brown he would shoot if he did not get back at which time brown grabbed at wilson's gun and twisted it around according to wilson's testimony. wilson said brown looked like a demon during their altercation and he drew his gun out of fear that another punch could knock him out. officer wilson added when he grabbed the 6'4" brown he said quote i felt like a 5-year-old holding on to hulk hogan. >> let's go to ari. based on what you know from the
evidence that's been released, did the grand jury come to the right decision? >> i don't know i'm in a position to answer that question at this time. we've definitely not had time review all the evidence that's been released, which is unusual. i'll tell you a couple of things, joe. number one it's not necessarily unusual to see the wide latitude under state law applied for police officers to make decisions about using deadly force. and so to some degree there's a question here about whether those laws strike the right balance and that's an important defwit be had. what's also unusual, though, as your guests and you have pointed out here is the timing of this decision. i will tell you both as a lawyer and now as a reporter who covers the law, i am hard pressed to think of any other grand jury announcement, indictment or no true bill or non-indictment that would be released in this way in the evening. let's take a step back. government business typically conducted during the day.
these kind of announcements typically made fairly close to the vote itself because that's considered proper. delaying too long is a heads up to family and local law enforcement, delaying too long is not seen as the normal proper course. delaying into that late at night as your guests said is highly unusual and we at msnbc in our coverage have talked to several former u.s. attorneys, several former prosecutors, we're talking here about people who like this prosecutor work hand in goff with the ply and prosecute a lot of cases. lot of folks tell us this is unusual in a suspicious way. i want to emphasize briefly that's a different point, those than whether these jurors ultimately reached the right decision. but that's a big question here looming today. >> let's go to the ground now. msnbc's craig melvin has been covering this case since august and he's now in ferguson for us. also with us from atlanta, dr.
alexander who served as the public safety director in dekalb county, georgia. craig, let's start with you. what's happening there in ferguson this morning. what does it took like on the ground? >> reporter: on the ground right now, willie, relatively calm compared to what we saw last night. 29 people arrested so far. at least 12 businesses were set on fire. parts of ferguson are still smoldering as i speak to you. in fact right behind me sam's meat market, is one of the many businesses in the stipulate that was looted then set on fire. dozens of businesses were looted. here's the thing. a lot of the businesses that were looted in ferguson, small businesses, mom and pop shops and that of course despite pleas from business owners in the days leading up to what we saw. at the worst of the violence last night the faa actually issued a travel ban or travel restrictions over the area,
flights could not fly over ferguson. also planes were not being allowed to fly into st. louis international airport. those planes were being diverted. i was in front of the ferguson police department last night. twla we saw tear gas, 20, 25 bottles hurled at officers who were in riot gear. we saw a number of police cars set on fire. cars toppled and set on fire, in fact. later this morning the parents of michael brown are expecting to hold a news conference at 11:00 a.m. where they will of course be responding to the decision from the grand jury yesterday but they are also expected to once again call for peace and calm in the city of ferguson. >> all right. craig melvin on the ground in ferguson for us. craig thanks so much. let's go to dr. alexander. i know you're not there watching this firsthand. what's your impression of the way things went down last night. the ferguson police department, the community took great pains to work with the community to
set up these protest sos that hopefully they could avoid what they saw last night. >> well last night was just absolutely unfortunate in the turn of events that appear to have started off as peaceful protests but as you saw in a very short period of time just really turned into a real chaotic and very unfortunate scene. you know, i think we're all sensitive to the fact that people in that community are angry, they are frustrated, there's a sense of disappointment, and there has been long standing separation between the police and local community. >> chief alexander, let me ask you as a professional law enforcement person what was your feeling about the huge time involved in between when we knew the grand jury had acted at 2:00 in the afternoon and the idea that the announcement was not made until 9:00 that night. as a law enforcement professional, how does that affect you? what did you think about that?
>> well, i mean as you've heard so many, even you all this morning and other commentators have stated there's something very unusual about the way that they delivered that decision. and when you look at it in its entire context the fact that that is a community where people don't trust the d. a.'soffice or they don't have much fate in the criminal justice. so when you have this announcement to be made the way that it was it continues to fuel that type of suspicion that something was awry. >> thank you. some other big news this morning, president obama will have to fine a new secretary of defense as chuck hagel announced his resignation. >> he announced the resignation
while being pushed off a cliff. >> the reporter from "new york times" said the president and hagel mutually agreed it was time to make a change. both men spoke to reporters yesterday. >> i've known him, admired him and trusted him for nearly a decade since i was a green behind the ears freshman senator and we were both on the senate foreign relations committee. there's one thing i know about chuck is that he does not make this or any decision lightly. >> it's been the greatest privilege of my life. greatest privilege of my life to lead and most important to serve, to serve with the men and women of the defense department and support their families. i am immensely proud of what we've accomplished during this time. >> while president obama and hagel are close on a personal level there are a number of reports that indicate a strained
relationship between the former nebraska senator and the white house. "new york times" quotes a senior administration official who said wut the next couple of years will demand a different type of focus. however a senior defense official was more blunt. nbc news saying hagel was forced to resign after the white house lost confidence in hagel. the official said hagel quote wasn't up to the job. other reports say hagel was fed up with micromanagement from the white house. hagel will remain in his current position until the president's new appointee can be confirmed. >> it happened sometime in early 2017. mike barnacle more with weasel back biting, sniping at a vietnam vet and a guy who was pursued by the white house. >> implying he's not up to the job. we get that. we get the lack of communication between chuck hagel and white house national security staff. put your name on it. if you're going say something about the guy, put your name on
it. >> he had a powerful defender in the vice president and his sort of pack of allies in the senate. john mccain, lindsey graham, john kerry. the fact he had those powerful friends and still did him no good in the white house is interesting. >> richard haas there's such a disconnect in the foreign policy apparatus between the white house and the pentagon as jim miklaszewski said there's communication between the white house and the preng, it's all one way. >> it's not just the white house and the pentagon. it's the white house and the state department and the white house. i think the national security process isn't working. >> why not? >> it's meant to coordinate. it's not meant to do the day-to-day carrying out of american foreign policy. this nsc is several times too big and too busy doing the jobs of other people around the u.s. government rather than doing its own job. it's interesting the most
successful nsc's in american history, they are about one tenth, one ninth the size of this job. they were not taking the places of the pentagon or defense department. >> there was a news story to that point. the president have the hagel dismissal left to go address the national security office, the members of the staff and the new story said he met with 400 people, 400 members of the national security. >> is that number accurate, do you think? >> if you include everybody, yes. probably between 300 and 400. includes homeland security types taking on other functions but it does represent a morphing of its role far from where it began. i think the next president ought to rethink this dramatically. >> we've already figured out
iraq how we'll handle isis. we'll let the kurds take care of the north. petraeus -- >> put lots of people. >> let's talk about iran quickly. deadline passed, obviously israel extremely concerned. what do we expect to see in the coming days and weeks. >> restarting of talks. like football analogies. second overtime. extra time here. >> sec football. okay. >> seven months now. the goal is by march to come up with a general framework. >> is that going to happen? >> it's quite possible, joe, that come next june we'll be in a place very similar to this one. we're still having fundamental disagreements how much can iran have in the way of capability, what kind of inspeckses, when do you have sanctions. >> let me ask you, we had people from the administration saying that we've really got the iranians to back off and we're in a safe holding pattern right now because the talks are going
on. do you buy that or not? >> there's some progress on putting a ceiling on what they are doing. highly enriched uranium is gone. >> how do we know that? >> there's a greater amount of inspections. the question is can this hold? i'm not so sure. you got the israelis extremely worried. you got congress thinking about introducing new sanctions. >> should israel be extremely worried. >> sure. but this is on a long list of thing. >> should congress put in place tougher sanctions. >> i don't think at the moment it would be wise. these things break down. we want it by iran's doing. >> why do the iranians want to cooperate with us and why do we want to cooperate with the iranians. >> the iranians are feeling economic heat. with oil at $75, $80 a barrel this is not what they need. >> how bad is it for their economy? >> they estimate -- >> saudis are doing that.
>> namely america. we increased production by 4 million barrels a day over the last couple of years has had a tremendous impact plus world demand giving the slowing of the world economy. it's way down. >> a lot of democrats and republicans are privately saying to anyone who will listen are afraid obama will giveaway the farm and do a bad deal because he needs a foreign policy accomplishment desperately. how legitimate is that concern >> it's out there as a possibility. you could have a bad deal. >> do you think he's more likely to do a bad deal. >> the question is any deal you can negotiate how does that compare to no deal. you'll have an imperfect deal. you won get an iran with zero nuclear capability. you won't get 100% capability. you have to accept in any deal. you have to compare it against life without and do you want to go war against these guys or do you want to simply have a
situation where without a deal they are free to do things, sanctions begin to break down. we'll ultimately have to swallow hard and think about is the only deal we can negotiate better than no deal? that's a grown up decision. in a sense it wasn't made now come next june that's back on the table. >> richard thank you so much. richard haas. ari as well. still ahead best selling author james patterson will explain how he'll save the novel and the protest on the ferguson grand jury decision splitting the country including here in new york. we have congressman meeks here. a new computer virus spreading fast but not the only reason why computer companies are concerned. more ahead on "morning joe." the holiday season is here, which means it's time for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event. for practically just your signature,
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joey is excited. jack is excited. kate -- >> is that too long? we have to wait a year. >> we waited long newspaper for "star wars." >> you talked last week about watching old movies with our kids. now we're at the "star wars" movie. they are in love. >> do they love it. >> lucy and i had a long talk the other night whether darth vader is a sympathetic character. good movies. haven't watched them in so long they are so good. >> they are amazing. you go back and look at the first three which i would never have done if jack hadn't said let's go back and see the first three. they are actually really good. we judged them a little too harshly and there's a point where the first three movies are going, but he's the chosen one. then you go back to your kids and explain he was the good guy at the end. he killed the bad guys.
>> then you get those braids on the side of your head. i think i did that. >> still ahead the president's response to the ferguson grand jury decision and the split screen that symbolizes the response to events on the ground. much more "morning joe" straight ahead.
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♪ first and foremost we are a nation built on the rule of law. and so we need to accept that this decision was the grand jury's to make. there are americans who agree with it. there are americans who are deeply disappointed, even angry. it's an understandable reaction. but i join michael's parents in asking anyone who protests this decision to do so peacefully. >> president obama last night on grand jury's decision not to indict officer darren wilson for
the shooting death of michael brown. gregory meeks is here and on capitol hill former special assistant to president obama joshua dubois. congressman let me start with you. good to see you again. leapt me ask you, i'm sure you've thought about it an awful lot, new york, obviously, had a terrible incident that happened out on staten island. there were protests but peaceful protests. very charged but very peaceful. that's not happening in ferguson. what's the difference? what's the difference with ferguson right now and where new york and other communities are across the country? >> number one there's a lot of vent up frustration in ferguson. though no one, the president and that's particularly as mr. brown has indicated, no one wants violence. violence should not occur. a number of individuals that were out there last night, in fact, a number of protests that were nonviolent in ferguson. >> and across the country also.
>> that's correct. but i think that people are upset. this is a decision that folks do not understand. and there's questions in regards to this particular prosecutor. i'm a former prosecutor -- >> do you have questions about the process? >> yeah. i have questions in whether or not this prosecutor really wanted an indictment. i think that's year. >> why do you say that? >> generally when you take a case to the grand jury at the conclusion of the case the prosecutor asks for an indictment. from everything that i've gotten thus far from the transcripts this prosecutor never asked for an indictment. you're only talking about generally when you take a case to the grand jury, giving the grand jury the issues so that you can show there's probably cause to believe there's a crime committed. so it seems as if the prosecutor went into the grand jury wanting an outcome and that outcome being a no true bill. >> joshua we've been talking about the range of options that the grand jury had as they made their decisions, as it came out
yesterday from first degree murder which is a tough one but even to involuntary manslaughter and again for the grand jury all they had to find was probably cause for something like that. are you surprised then by the outcome? >> i am surprised and just deeply not only disappointed but really disconcerting feeling waking up in a country and a lot of black folks are waking up this morning feeling like maybe your life does not matter as much as someone else's. and whether you believe that that's the case or not that's something that should affect all of us as americans. the prosecutor's tone last night was all wrong. it felt like michael brown was the suspect there and darren wilson was his defense client rather than the other way around. you also have a case where it was finally confirmed that brown's body was 130 feet away from darren wilson. a lot of black folks are thinking this morning even if he was turning towards him, the fact is he was unarmed. isn't there another way to handle that situation other than shooting this young man dead?
so it really -- it feels like we've given license that when a person is intimidated by a black person in this country you can pull out your gun and shoot them and that's very disconcerting. >> gene robinson, off of what was just said, you have children, grown children now. talk about the inherent difficulty that white people in this country will just never get no matter how much we talk about it, about black parents raising children and having to tell them at a certain age to be aware of traffic stops, things like that. >> how many times have we talked about this, mike. you have to talk with your children, with your sons especially. you tell them, you know, be polite and keep your hands in sight and don't talk in an aggressive tone to police officers because it could be a matter of life and death and it's just frustrating to have to bring this up again and again
because these things keep happening, and as joshua said, you know, if you're a white person in this country and feel intimidated by a black person it seems that our system is saying, you know, shoot first and worry about consequences later. >> let me jump in here, though, and i'm loathe to jump in here as a guy from the south who went to a southern state school, but i do have to jump in here and say that the evidence before the grand jury did have michael brown going into the police car and swinging and hitting, et cetera, et cetera. i wasn't in the grand jury room, i'm not here defending not anything that's happened, i'm just putting that out there that this wasn't trayvon martin where he's walking along a residential neighborhood with skittles in his post and some guy because
he's black he's going to confront him and trayvon martin ends up dead. >> you're right this is different from that. if at the same time conflicting testimony about what actually happened and there was conflicting testimony about what actually happened, if that is prima facia evidence there shouldn't be even charges, then and let a jury decide then we'll have to let a whole lot of people out of jail being right? it's conflicting testimony. >> if i could add. i said in the 6:00 hour along with gene there are a lot of questions to be asked about how this entire grand jury was set up. it didn't go the way a lot of grand juries go. >> if i can jump in for a second. the other factor to consider now we have the pictures of officer darren wilson and we've gone from a situation where folks thought he was brutally assaulted to photos that show someone who looked like they came from a mild paint ballgame. this man, obviously, maybe he was in some sort of a tussle but the question is should that
tussle have resulted in him pulling out a gun at 130 feet and dumping 12 bullets into someone. a lot of folks is wondering about that. >> that's a question in most grand juries, if you didn't have the prosecutor playing defense attorney and prosecutor, congressman, that's something that would be heard in the court of law but we're not going there because, again, this grand jury wasn't set up like most grand juries which is to indict. >> that's why you have people upset all across this country because transparency didn't happen and it looks as though justice would not happen. and in what mr. dubois was talking about earlier, the recent case here in new york because it's happening all across the country where you have a young man shot in the stairwell and then you have the police commissioner say that was by accident when it was a kill shot that tells folks that if you are young and you happen to be african-american and male then your life is valueless. >> you were a prosecutor. >> yes.
>> have you ever seen a grand jury go down like this where you actually had a prosecutor go in and play it as down the middle as he played it instead of doing what prosecutors do. we all know prosecutors they are aggressive they want to indict and then they want to convict and if they can't convict they want to get the best sentence they can get. >> joe, i have never, ever, and what i did before coming on last night, figuring maybe i hadn't prosecuted a case in a long time i called a few of my friend who are prosecutors today and they said they have never ever seen a situation like this. >> no. all right. thank you so much. we appreciate it, congressman. always great to see you. josh, thank you so much. we really appreciate you being here. still ahead if republicans think they have a mandate after the sweeping mid-term victory they want to see a new poll that just came out. it's ugly for both sides. we'll be right back.
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visit audioffers.com today. seventh. welcome back everybody. listen to this. republicans are set to take over capitol hill but that doesn't necessarily mean that the party has mandate. in fact, a new bloomberg politics anselm poll in the granite state cautions republicans against overreach. 44% among general election voters say the gop shouldn't use its majority to carry out a new agenda come january. new hampshire voters are split on how president obama should respond. 46% want the president to give ground to republicans. 44% want him to stop them from going too far. now overall 44% are more optimistic about the future while 28% are less optimistic.
>> nicole, what do republicans need to do over the next two years. not to repeat the same mistakes in 194 and 2010. >> i was disheartened their response on the president's response to immigration. they don't care how you get things done they want you to find a way. i think republicans have to stop talking process, stop talk about shutdowns and executive orders and talk about governing, talk about the economy, talk about jobs, talk about immigration. they could call this president's bluff on immigration by taking up in the house the senate bill. if they pass comprehensive immigration reform out of the senate and house, you know then game on. that would be really exciting. but i don't see enough signs that they are going to, to embrace the policy challenges. >> the senate passed a bill -- >> bipartisan bill. >> why doesn't the house pass their version of the bill.
>> paul ryan suggested doing it piecemeal. the problem not doing it, they said republicans are against comprehensive immigration reform. they are not. they haven't figured out how to do it. process is a huge loser for the party. they have to talk about policy. they have to offer suing begs and have to govern. >> they need to pass something through the house. >> yes. >> if it doesn't have the majority of republican votes it doesn't have the majority of republican votes and everybody can go back to their districts and bitch and moan and say they ran over me, doggone it it will help them. then presidential candidates that don't lose the hispanic vote. i'm not talking about amnesty or citizenship not the way that's faster than somebody getting here from india. comprehensive immigration bill. unless republicans are going to come out and say we are going to import 11.3 illegal immigrants. >> probably closer to 17 million if you add people on
overextended visa. >> it's a lie. it's a lie to suggest we're going to be tough and you can only deport 400,000 illegal immigrant as year when there's like you said maybe even closer to 17 million. >> they have to do something. it's a critical juncture for the republican party. the long term significance of their decision to complain and not pass any immigration reform legislation it could lock in latino voters for the opposition party. >> a shut down is a loser. >> just pass a bill. >> a flurry of lawsuits. >> the supreme court will -- >> the supreme court will take this up. the supreme court overturns the executive action americans are still going to look and say okay what's your plan. they need a plan. same thing with health care. shut down the government or come up with your own version. still ahead a number of small businesses were caught in the crossfire. how do businesses survive in
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amazon, more than just a river. >> amazon. delivering by taxi. >> almost more attractive than the drone thing. see that taxi come flying through central park. joining us is the administrator of the u.s. small business administration along with cnbc's brian sullivan in the house as well. this is very exciting because small business saturday is coming up, right? and we've got the dine out saturday -- >> dine small. shop small, dine small. >> okay. but you're doing like a date night thing, too. correct? >> well, that's right. you know. we have 28 small businesses around the country. and they really create the local culture in a community. this is where you can get your favorite local craft beer. this is where you can get your favorite gift in a super boutique that's really unusual versus going in the mall.
malls are nice. this is where you get unique gifts for your family. >> we have something coming up on friday, the day after thanksgiving. >> i'm not going to say it. >> black friday. >> but you want to follow it. you guys have been doing this for a while. you want to follow it up on saturday with people going and supporting local small business owners. >> that's exactly right. small businesses are creating two out of three net new jobs in america. and they employ half of the private workforce. this is the group driving our economy, and there are 28 small businesses and they create local jobs. they treat their employees like family. they are turning the dollar more in a local community. why not shop small and dine small on november 29th? >> agree completely. let's go to what you said a little bit. they say small business is the yob creator of america. that's not true. new business is the job creator. by definition new businesses tend to start small. most small businesses don't grow
in size. how do we get more people to start their own business? >> thank you for that question. that was my leading question. >> that was a terrible question. zblf the sba has three programs that we do to help businesses start and grow. every business tells us they need counseling. they want to know how to grow their plan, make sure their marketing plan is targeting the right tarkt. and you know what, they're. then we have contracting opportunities. the u.s. government is the largest procurer in the world. the spa directs 23% of that spent to small business and finally they want access to capital. and so what they say is how do we get access to capital? the spa provides a government guarantee at their local bank to help them get to u.s. >> so what's the degree of difficulty in the last aspect of it?
given the restrictions, it's become increasingly difficult for people, small businesses to get loans. what's the story there? >> so what the sba does is provides us a guarantee. some people have a rich uncle and we have uncle sam who stands as a guarantor. and we zeroed out fees on loans under $150,000. some of it is costs. and then the other things the bank say is it's hard to navigate through the paperwork that the sba requires us to do. so we're now putting in smart system to deploy the al gmath - >> so what do you recommend for small businesses caught in the cross fire? obviously, northwest florida. i saw that come in for a lot of people who lost their homes in hurricanes. what about in cases like this? >> yeah, so i mentioned the three cs.
the counseling, the capital and the contracting opportunities. we also have a "d", which is when we see there's a community adversely affected, we come in and make direct economic injury loans to small businesses. so the sba is watching. as soon as we get a call from the governor, we can act. we can deploy to help small businesses there. >> i think you're going to get a call today. thank you so much. we really appreciate you being here. i'm going to go out shopping saturday afternoon. >> and dine small saturday night. >> take my family. we're going to have about 20 people in town. we may have to slit up, a couple restaurants. but we're going to do it. >> thank you very much. follow me on twitter. >> i'll do that. i cannot guarantee that i'm going to eat small. i never do. brian, stay with us, if you will. coming up next. new details for the deadly shooting of 18-year-old michael brown as the grand jury documents a release to the public, and a violent and tragic reaction from those outraged by the grand jury's decision. not up to the job. that's what president obama
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no probable cause exists to file any charge against officer wilson and return to no true bill on each of the five indictments. >> as soon as he announced the verdict, the officers started taking rocks and batteries.
i can tell you i personally heard about 150 shots fired. >> we are a nation built on the rule of law. we need to accept that this decision was the grand jury's to make. there are americans who agree with it, and there are americans who are deeply disappointed and even angry. but i join michael's parents in asking anyone who protests this decision to do so peacefully. >> our community has got to take some responsibility for what happened tonight. we talk about peaceful protests and that did not happen tonight. >> welcome to morning joe. tuesday, november 25th. a lot to cover with this set. mike barnacle. cohost of the view, nicole wallace. and also msnbc contributor and associate professor after columbia university school of international and public affairs, dorian warren.
and associate professor of the post, eugene robinson. no charges on the front page of the usa today. the new york post, treats of rage. from the daily news, america holds its breath. from "the new york times," grand jury chooses not to diet officer, and wall street journal officer not charged in many killing. there is so much to talk about. unfortunately, i think the first thing that i would at least want to know is why the hell. why the hell did they release this information the way they did? why did they have this buildup -- this slow crescendo to say we're going to be announcing it at 9:00. and i think most people knew. how this was going to come
down, just given what local authorities have been suggesting before, and then to announce that 9:00 at night. >> the time lapse was mystifying. >> it's mind boggling that a community and a state that had so mishandled this case from the very beginning continue to mishandle it at the very end. >> yeah. >> and the results, gene robinson, very predictable. they were horrible results. half a dozen buildings were set aflame. people looteded liquor and convenience stores. the missouri authorities, president obama and brown's family have requested, well, the president was making his request on a split screen while the riots were going on. it's -- you know, people are responsible for their own a,s, and it was horrific, the actions that were engaged in. but i can't believe that the officials in missourian dont have a done a better job.
bching the way ferguson's police department was run for so many years. . >> this was totally foreseeable. and look, i hate conspiracy theorys. i've spent a lot of time telling people how dumb their conspiracies are. if you knew you were going to announce there was no indictment, and you wanted to shift attention to the reaction, away from the decision itself, well, i guess this would be a way to do it. and this would certainly be a, you know, an awful way to do it. but why in the world do you announce this thing at 9:00 at night? i don't -- i'll never understand that. especially when the decision was ready at 2:00 p.m. >> when you would have been doing the police officers a player. you would have been doing the black-owned small businesses that was torched last night a
favor. you would be doing the families a favor. >> and the people who went out to protest peacefully and, you know, you would be doing them a favor. >> if you were going to go out and protest peacefully, you would do it at 3:00 in the afternoon. you would not do it given the history of what's been going on since august at 9:00 at night. willie geist, why don't we get everybody caught up to what happened last night. not just in ferguson, but across america. >> yeah, this continued deep into the night. let's go it to it here. the the unrest broke out moments after the county prosecutor announced a grand jury verdict did not indict officer darren wilson. that's the police officer who shot and killed michael brown, an unarmed teenager in august. this is one of the results of the protest. at least a dozen businesses in ferguson going up in flames, including a drugstore and a pizza restaurant. protesters set fire to numerous vehicles, including two police cars. other police vehicles damaged after being vandalized.
some demonstrators smashed windows. there was gunfire. and looting was reported at several stores in the area. president obama addressed the country last night, urging demonstrators to show restraint, but as joe just said, it was a remarkable split screen. his speech come just as the violence began to unfold, creating some pretty surreal images on tv. >> yeah, let's look at this, mike barnacle. you think somebody in the white house might have figured this out? that maybe the speech should have been before the announcement so you don't have the split screen? >> well, the speech couldn't have been before the today nounsment, because he had to react to the announcement. there's nothing the white house can do about how the cable networks are going to and l it. they all used the split screen. it seemed like everybody was tipping their hand at 2:00 in the afternoon.
i'm just curious if you wouldn't have the speech? >> i thought he should have gone there. i think the most brilliant speech as a president was the speech he gave on race. and i think that the words that he used last night were perfectly crafted they were not written and handed to him by a speech writer. i think they came from his heart. i think the white house was staring at bad options. ch they had to speak. they knew what would happen. i'm very impressed they went ahead. they were watching that, too. the press office in the briefing room. they knew what was happening. it was important enough to them. and i think the fakts that he stood in the the briefing room. he gave his remarks. he took questions. i had a moment where i thought he was going to rush out of there. he didn't. i think as the days go on it will endure as a powerful message that he delivered. and i hope he keeps it up. i hope he does visit ferguson in the coming days. >> it was one of his better moments.
>> it gets back to the original question that you pose, though. >> they give them eight hours to ge ready when they have so many options. they could have delayed this until tomorrow afternoon. about 4:00 in the afternoon. >> and the thing is, they tip their hand. i had no idea over the weekend. i thought the police officer was going to be indicted. when officials started coming out early urging calm, urging calm, you knew how this movie was going to end. >> i think we all knew. what also infuriated people was watching the press conference from mccullough. the 25-minute explanation as to why no indictment. he looked like the defense attorney in that moment, not a prosecutor. and if there's that much to explain, why not take it to trial? i think it was the long press
conference that really infuriated people. the explanation. the detail. all of that stuff. >> gene robinson, you brought up a good point in "way too early." you look at the evidence. the evidence looks like there's not a jury. there's not a jury in missouri that would convict this police officer if you look at the evidence. and that said, you usually take care of that in trials. >> exactly. >> when you are in grand juries, you are actually -- you're the the prosecutor. you are doing michael brown's bidding. you're not doing justice's bidding as far as with a blindfold. you're not the the defense attorney and the prosecutor. you're looking at if there's probable cause to possibly convict this police officer. that didn't happen from the very beginning. for whatever reasons. >> you're there to represent the
victim and society. you're the the prosecutor. you're not there to represent the defendant. and the standard, as you said, is probable cause. it's not -- >> that is a low, low standard. >> right. >> it's a very low standard. and do you you not have probable cause when you have, you know, an unarmed young man who is shot multiple times but a police officer. you saw the photos of officer wilson and despite the the early erroneous reports about a broken eye socket or whatever. in fact, he had a contusion. he had a bruise and was told at the the the hospital -- i read the medical report, to go home and take some aleve. that was the extent of his treatment that night. all that leads to probable cause. >> and we need to make sure everybody understands what we're saying here. what i said at first is looking at all this evidence, you're not going to -- i just don't think
you're going top find efd to convict this officer. but that's not the stage we're at. >> exactly. >> we're at a much different stage. and that will affable cause concerns with legal scholars moving forward. >> don't you know this as an attorney. at an indictment hearing, you give basically a loose sketch of the evidence you have to get probable cause. it's unclear to me how it took months and months and months. clearly the prosecutor laid out every detail of the case. >> yeah, 25 hours of testimony. 60 witnesses. but what i'm curious about now, there are two federal investigations. one into the case. one into whether or not there was a pattern of civil rights abuses by the ferguson police department. but i feel like in all the stories i read from obviously sources are that they don't look likely to find him culpable
either. >> they're not going to. >> why? >> because the standard is so much higher at this level. and again, we're talking about the standard, mike. and hell, you know this. all the years you were a reporter. this standard is so low when you're looking at a grand jury situation. >> so this is the lowest bar. >> and then you go to federal, where they're bringing a federal case. the bar is so much higher. >> without this, those cases are -- is that -- i'm not a lawyer. >> they'll look at it independently. the standard is so much higher. and if you look at the evidence, the evidence seems to support the officer. that said. i'm talking about the end of the day. that said though, mike, that's not what these types of hearings are about. we think this is a bad guy. look at the evidence we have against this guy. look what he did to shareholder ls. we want to take him to trial. the grand jury goes, okay,
that's basically it. >> last week i spoke to a prosecutor, a friend of mine who has done hundreds of grand juries. the grand jury is 12 grand jurors seated like at a picnic table. it's not the jury box. >> and they're just sitting for a jury. >> these are ferguson residents. you have 12 jurors selected. they've been sitting for four or fife months. you have the prosecutor in the room. and you have witnesses who come in and testify. the prosecutor does the questioning. the five counts that perhaps could have been levelled for an indictment against the police officer here. and the minimum -- at a minimum, the prosecutor that i spoke to said, i would bet you a lot of money that they will end up with involuntary manslaughter. at least one. at least one. based on what they have. based on the evidence. >> a lot of people might say why
would you do that, as i'm saying the evidence that we look at shows that a jury is not going to be able to convict him. because any lawyer will tell you you never know what happens when you walk through that door. there have been a lot of cases that i have seen great lawyers handle that started. they said this looks like a losing case. and then you take a deposition. you get evidence. you start pulling on a string, and suddenly the entirely new truth is real. maybe that would not happen here. maybe it would. we're not going to find out. and the range of options, as mike said. first-degree murder. that would have requireded premeditation. but involuntary manslaughter, some people thought would have come up. let's talk about the the grand jury. seven men, five women. three african-americans. nine whites on that grand jury. county prosecutor robert mccullough said the result will remain anonymous. they testified he charged at
officer wilson before he was shot. multiple witnesses either changed their stories or gave conflicting accounts. he also said three autopsies contradicted witnesses who claim they saw brown shot in the back. >> i'm ever mindful that this decision will not be accepted by some and may cause disappointment for others. all decisions in the criminal justice system must be determined by the physical and scientific evidence and the credible testimony corroborated by that evidence, not in response to public outcry or for political expediency. >> he did not mention that brown was unarmed when he shot. he did single out the media, saying they contributed to unrest officially. these are photos of officer wilson after his altercation with brown. wilson testified that brown hit him when he first approached the teen about a robbery. the officer said he warned brown he would shoot if he did not get
back. at which time he grabbed at wilson's gun and twisted it around. wilson said brown looked like a demon during the altercation. this is all from the testimony of the grand jury. then he drew his gun out of fear another punch would knock him out. he testified when te grabbed the teenager, who was 6'4", he said, quote, i felt like a 5-year-old holding onto hulk hogan. after the grand jury's announcement, wilson's attorney released a statement that said law enforcement personnel must make split second decisions. officer wilson followed his training and followed the law. michael brown's mother cried and screamed when she heard officer wilson would not be indicted. they said we're profoundly disappointed the killer of our child will not face the consequences of his actions. join with us in our campaign to ensure every police officer working the streets of this country wears a body camera. we respectfully ask that you
please keep your protest peaceful. answering violence with violence is not the appropriate action. jean gene robinson, the brown family conducting itself with incredible grace, and unfortunately their request was not met in ferguson last night. >> right, and what sounds to me like a perfectly reasonable request and pgs to take. body cameras would have told us a lot more about what happened. we wouldn't need this dueling, conflicting testimony. we would have a world of this encounter. and i guess, some officers the at least in ferguson are now wearing cameras. i wish that were much more widespread. >> no doubt about it. hopefully that is one thing that can come out of this tragedy. i don't really understand why, mike, there wouldn't be body cameras. it helps the cops.
it helps the good cops. it helps scitizens. as i've said repeatedly, the only people who don't want that are the bad cops who push their authority around and we need every cop in america to have a camera on them. >> commissioner bratton said that when he feels here after the protests. he said the nypd is the largest police department in the country that they're looking at it. and it's a cost issue for a lot of police departments. but you're absolutely right. the only people who could oppose it are the ones who didn't want everyone to see. >> every profession, gene, has bad actors. i think for the most part, law enforcement officers do a great job, and i commend them for going out and putting their lives on the line every night. i think it's in their best interest that the 2, 3, 4%, 5% of the the people in uniforms that act like punks from time to
time have cameras on there. if they do, the 5% will become 0% really quickly. >> yeah, it's in the interest of all good cops and not in the interest of the bad cops. and so there ought to be cameras. one thing we ought to mention is there were protests last night, peaceful protests in cities around the country, including here in washington, in los angeles, in new york. there was a big protest. so you know, this became a national issue and nationally there was a big response, and for the most part in the vast majority, an appropriate response to what frankly most people see as a miscarriage of justice. and we'll have to go forward from here. it's a bad place to start from. but we'll have to go forward from here and see what good can come out of this awful and i think unnecessary tragedy. >> still ahead on "morning joe." james paterson is hoping to take
his fight to save bookstores all the way to the president. why that involves burning books. okay. i had a sunday schoolteacher like that. plus, watch out bill karins. governor cuomo is taking aim at the meteorologists for lack of preparation for the big snow. we'll see if we can't get him to personally blame you. but first, bill, go ahead. give your prebuttal and also the rest of the forecast. should mike barnacle leave now. >> how could he go blaming meteorologists? first thing, we're very thin skinned and we're all tech peek. we have all our records. this was the most well forecasteded lake-effect ever. on monday, three days before the event, i said forget the ruler. and the next day, i said up to five feet possible, historic but highly localized event just south of the buffalo area.
so the buffalo weather service did a fantastic job, too. i don't know. maybe he has reasons. maybe he doesn't like weather. let's talk about the upcoming storm coming your way. it's amazing we have winter storm watches for the region. and it's in the 50s. here's how the snow is going to come down. this is the snow totals by about 3:00 to 4:00 a.m. thursday. notice that we don't have a lot of heavy snow on i-95. mostly rain wednesday morning. if you're driving, you can go out wednesday morning, and you're just fine. new york city southward. the colder air works in. rain changes to snow. we'll pick up a couple of inches. new york city at most, maybe three or four big slushy inches. heavy, wet snow. interior sections will get nailed. all those areas with a chance of six plus. portland at 48. boston doesn't get quite as much. so the timing of that, again. is going to be starting wednesday afternoon. really intense wednesday night. be off the the roads in new england wednesday night.
you do not want to be traveling. we leave you with a shot of new york city. it's 50s and beautiful out right now. in 30 hours it will be snowing. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. [ julie ] the wrinkle cream graveyard.
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♪ it's time to take a look at the morning papers. willie, why don't we start in des moines? >> we have some memories the there, don't we? >> the des moines register. iowa man arrested outside the
white house has pleaded guilty to misdemeanor kmacharges. he was ordered to remain held without bond. and the washington democratic national committee has announced three cities still in the running to post the party's 2016 convention. they are new york. >> good spot. good spot. >> philadelphia. >> really? one of the best conventions i've ever been. everybody kind of ground in 2000. and columbus. i got relatives there. that's good, too. 3 for 3. and pennsylvania and ohio could be critical swing states, of course. the next presidential election, of course. republicans think that pennsylvania will be a critical swing state. but it never is. it's fool's gold, as i've been saying for a couple l of decades now. they will slouch out there and do the walk of shame. the dnc may move its convention
week up from august to july. thank you for trying to ruin my july. i won't let you do it. >> he won't be there. >> new york governor andrew cuomo says weather forecasters are to blame as criticism mounts over the state's response to the winter storm that pummeled the buffalo area. governor cuomo said state officials were unaware it was going to snow that hard in such a short amount of time. a spokesman said the forecast was, quote, timely and accurate. the governor seemed to take a page from mayor bill de blasio's book who blamed the failure on shutting down schools on bad weather reports. every meteorologist will tell you this was predicted. the national weather service. whether it's bill karins. >> ignore bill karins. >> al roker, anybody will tell you they saw this coming and talked about it. >> yeah, bill! we only said five. >> they didn't say seven. >> we're going to let nicole. >> oh, that's my guy. >> leaving miami.
>> yeah, i need that. i need that. we want you to read about it. >> i can do it. is it mean? usa today. before monday night's game, lebron james delivered a blunt announcement. i stink, he said. i'm not doing my job. the cavs were on a four-game losing streak, but james bounced back scoring 29 points and leading cleveland to their sixth win of the season. >> we all know they're going to end up like in the finals. >> there's 70 games left. >> turn on your tv memorial day and you'll get a good sense on whether the cavs or -- >> and we'll be talking about the republican convention. >> new york daily muse. meryl streep, stevie wonder and tom brokaw were among the medals
of freedom yesterday. they give extraordinary service in the arts, public service, and science. during the ceremony, the president also professed his love for meryl streep. >> i love meryl streep. i love her. her husband knows i love her. michelle knows i love her. there's nothing either of them can do about it. >> i love that. the presidents love these ceremonies. >> george w. bush. >> mohammed ali moved him the most. he awarded him the medal of freedom. and he talked about it for days and weeks. >> coming up, the ez dig nation of defense secretary chuck ha l hagel. we'll talk to the woman who broke the news to t"the new yor time times". stay with us. i know what you're thinking...
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♪ >> i have today submitted my resignation as secretary of defense. it's been the greatest privilege of my life, the greatest privilege of my life to lead and most important to serve, to serve with the men and women of
the defense department and support their families. i am immensely proud of what we accomplished during this time. >> translator: with us from washington, "the new york times" elaine cooper. she broke the story of chuck hagel's resignation as defense secretary yesterday and here onset with us, we have the host of the reid report, joy reid. thank you so much for being with us. what were the causes based on your reporting? >> well, i think it was a little bit at first glance, you would think this was surprising because in so many ways chuck hagel was exactly who president obama initially wanted. he wanted to take the temperature down at the pentagon after four years in which he was constantly at friction with his military, and he wanted somebody to carry out his orders quietly. who would bring troops home from afghanistan and see to the budget cuts.
in all those ways chuck hagel did exactly that. but the interesting thing is he durned tout to be a victim of that prescription in his own success. because he turned out to be almost too passive for president obama. he didn't speak up. you hear white house people saying he didn't talk as much, speak up, he was very quiet in meetings. he didn't present his views forcefully. and at the end of the day, after the midterms and you saw criticisms of the president's national security team and the white house decided they needed a shakeup, particularly in view of the bumbling strategy towards the islamic state in iraq and syria, they went for the low hanging fruit and chuck hagel was there. >> there was an expanded involvement coming with the united states role in afghanistan, based upon the the new afghan president being in place.
there is going to be increased involvement. which takes precedent in the mind of the president, do you think, according to your reporting and observation. the national security council, the joint chiefs of staff or the secretary of defense? which of those would take precedent. >> that is so easy. the national security council. he's such an insider's guy. >> he trusts the people who are around him. and his national security council is very much filled can dam pain loyalists and people with him in 2006 and 2007. you look at dennis mcdonough, the white house chief of staff. and these are the people he goes to when he needs any sort of
real advice. his cabinet on the other hand is much more removed from the process. even secretary of state john kerry is not viewed by the bhous as somebody they can really turn to and trust at all times. so you have this almost sort of insider inner circle l and cabinet officials on the outside who have trouble penetrating that. >> so what do you think would be the reaction among the people who you know in the secretary of defense office or in the joint chiefs who you know and you report on regularly when they hear the phrase that you just used campaign workers who are close to the president. rather than joint chiefs or the secretary of defense? >> you know, i think everybody -- i think the people on the joint chiefs and the people at the pentagon have played the washington game for a long time and know what to accept.
they know what to expect. at the same time, i think there's definitely been some alienation, particularly at the pentagon of this obama white house. and this goes back to the first term. when you had the military commanders constantly pushing president obama on more troops in afghanistan. on slowing the exit from iraq. so there's been some tension between the building and we call it the building. aye been a total pentagon reporter. between the pentagon and the white house. and it almost feels as if we're going back to what's normal there. what a pentagon insider you have become. my congratulations on a complete scoop. what was your reaction to not just the decision but the d.a.'s
handling during the investigation and last night. zblf the the decision was not a surprise at all. this is what i expected to happen at all. it's rare for police officers to be indicted, let alone tried and convicted of killing people. i was reading about horrible instants out of seattle. where it's just hard to indict a cop. >> and even when the facts are egregio egregious. you go back to 1979. arthur mcduffy not long before christmas, beaten to death by a group of police officers who cracked his skull open. no conviction there. you can go through. patrick shot dead by a police officer who insisted he was a drug dealer, even though he was just a security guard killed in front of other people. and still no indictment there, and in fact, his jufl record thrown out to the public. the mayor at the time said he's
no choir boy if the security guard deserved to die. you go through the cases. rodney king is beaten with cameras rolling. and it took the feds to come in. go all the way through the litany of cases. particularly of young black men. i never heard of a police officer going to jail, particularly at the state level for doing that. i in no way expected that to happen. and then on top of that, bob mccullough and every lawyer i talked to on the show said he has telegraphed openly throughout this entire process, that the result we saw last night was exactly the result he was looking for. prosecutors get what they want when they go for it. he made it very clear. >> how did he do that? >> first of all, he didn't just make the decision. he had the power within his officer to indict or not indict. ft he didn't need the grand jury. he chose to go to the grand jury. then he did a document dump in front of them. gave them no narrative. walked them through nothing. he did state last night that he
didn't do the questioning himself. and then just talking back and forth with lisa bloom, the wonderful legal analyst here as she's going through the way he was questioned. that was a friendly conversation. there was not a tough questioning of the officer. so everything from the lack of a narrative to this prosecutor not talking to the family. i repeatedly have asked lawyers for michael brown's family, have hay that had any contact with the prosecutor? they've had zero. he's done nothing to reach out to the family. typically they are advocates for the victims in the case. they try to talk to the family. they try to represent the the family. this guy did none of that. he's always signaled to the police. everything about him signals that to the police. so what i suz surprised about, though, was that the public policy action of waiting until 9:00 at night, eastern time for something you knew you were going to do. i'm sure he knew at 9:00 that morning. i'm sure he knew a month ago there would be no indictment. to wait and roll this out with a
crowd of people weeping in the street at 9:00 at night, when only the people who are the most angry are going to remain in the street and not go home. ch i think it was a recipe for exactly what you saw. completely predictable. and teringly managed. >> we agree all around the table. thank you so much. we appreciate it. you can watch the reid report at 2:00 p.m. on msnbc. still ahead, twit ircfo, the twitter cfo actually tweets out concern why it's creating a giant mystery on wall street. you don't want to do that. >> no. go! go! wow! go power...oats! go! made from oats cheerios! cheerios! go, go, go! go power oats!
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>> i need to open my eyes? >> yes. what am i missing? >> i spend my time on the phone with the internet and reaching out to my friends on facebook and getting word out. >> please don't say facebook to me again. he's having trouble describing what he really wants. and that's because the job that he wants doesn't actually exist. i get the feeling he wants to collect a six-figure salary without doing the work. have you worked the register since i've been there? when i'm in, i'm all in. >> i agree. >> that's very different from what i've seen from you. i don't think you've been all in. >> marcus' eyes are open. don't say facebook to him. >> don't say facebook. >> that was a scene from the new episode of "the profit", which appears tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern and pacific times on cnbc. brian sullivan is back with business before the bell with a segment that doesn't suck apparentl
apparently. >> it does not suck. >> there's mika by the way. gdp finished up 3.9%, by the way. higher than the previous reed. good news across the board. and if you have not been paying attention, the u.s. stock market tide the longest 30-day upstreak since 1928. >> that would be very exciting but for the fact that it was 1928. what happened to 1929? >> flappers were hot. the rumble seat was a good place to go. yes. >> causation is not corallation. it does not mean that. we hope. we're in the middle of the greatest short term stocks in the history of america.
the rich keeps getting richer and the poor keeps getting poorer. >> do you have a question from twitter? >> oh, yeah, what's this thing? the cfo meant it to be private. >> it's confusing to a lot of people. and twitter has been 45rd to use for the average population. they're like what in the world is this? the cfo of twitter meant to dm somebody about buying a company. but sent it out as a tweet. a very well respected guy here. but if you're the cfo twitter and having trouble using twitter, it's like joe tori saying let's kick a field goal. >> how do we really know it was an accident? oops. >> the sec may be calling if it's not. although, he didn't name it. >> brian sullivan.
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snchts there's a book burning going on in america. you're invited, especially the kids. publishers are dying. american literature will be next
on the flame ls. enough. i'm james patterson. please go to jamespatterson.com. we can stop the book burning. >> yes, you can. that was a new ad from the campaign to save our books. here with us now, the man behind the initiative, james patterson, who is also out with two new books. his latest alex cross novel, "hope to die" and a children's book "house of robots." very cool to have you here. two new books just in time for the the thol days. >> kids books with the adult books so people remember, oh, yeah, i have kids. and i think it relates to what's going on today or last night. because neglect, hopelessness, anger and i grew up in a tough town, newburg, new york. so i've been through this forever, that kind of thing. and i just did a documentary in
florida which is another tough town. and people feel hopeless. and it's really about getting kids competent. i would like to make readers for life. if they're competent readers, they can get through high school. if they're not, they can't get through high school. # and talk about saving books. you know. we had these massive chains. now they have been killed by amazo amazon. >> partly by amazon. partly by themselves. >> when we go to our bookstores, they're packed. >> i i independents have an opportunity now to correct some things. one of the things with
independe independe independent, and you know, we give out a lot of money. but there's an opportunity with kids. kids have not made the switch to ebooks. >> you mentioned amazon. they are this giant of the industry. you know. you order online. how can amazon be helpful in growing? >> i think -- i would love it if the government protected books a little, and they don't. but amazon is the next great hope. amazon could help with reading in the country. i think they probably are. >> how is that? they could be promoting it all over on their site. they could get families more into ebooks. which families don't know how to do it. how many readers there are. they could do a lot. they have good reads.
>> mr. patterson, you said independent bookstores have an opportunity now. how do they survive in the world of amazon, who is just a dominant player in the industry? >> well, i think there are a lot of things. one, a lot of independents bring in a lot of authors to speak. that's really -- it's a pain in the the neck i think the pricing thing, sometimes they have to be morale about. just because it says $27.95, you know, got to question that. i mean, you have to be a little real. i can buy it for a lot less. you can still make money on it. and then kids. what we do, you must have a -- a kids section. and a couple of stores have taken the kids' session and put it out front. >> magnetized to it. four kids. we love alex cross. let's talk about the kids' book
zbr yeah, i know at this stage in my life, i don't need to make much. but i'm just turned on by the notion of getting kids reading and how important it is. one is for kids that are already competent, broaden the base. i mean, stop with this knee-jerk thing. you know it's happening out in the st. louis area that's very complicated. and the more you read, the smarter you get. immigration is really complicated. so that's been bright. just read more, learn more. and the thing about reading, look, as individuals we can't do things about the health care crisis or whatever you think of global warming. but as individuals, we can't get the kids in our house reading. we can do that. >> it's incredible. james patterson. thank you so much for being with
us. go to jamespattersojamespatters. and stick around. request t the rundown" is up next. we have a lot of news we'll be following throughout the day. thank you for being with us. we'll see you tomorrow. take a closer look at your fidelity green line and you'll see just how much it has to offer, especially if you're thinking of moving an old 401(k) to a fidelity ira. it gives you a wide range of investment options... and the free help you need to make sure your investments fit your goals -- and what you're really investing for. tap into the full power of your fidelity green line. call today and we'll make it easy to move that old 401(k) to a fidelity rollover ira. a man who doesn't stand still.
but jim has afib, atrial fibrillation an irregular heartbeat, not caused by a heart valve problem. that puts jim at a greater risk of stroke. for years, jim's medicine tied him to a monthly trip to the clinic to get his blood tested. but now, with once-a-day xarelto®, jim's on the move. jim's doctor recommended xarelto®. like warfarin, xarelto® is proven effective to reduce afib-related stroke risk. but xarelto® is the first and only once-a-day prescription blood thinner for patients with afib not caused by a heart valve problem, that doesn't require regular blood monitoring. so jim's not tied to that monitoring routine. gps: proceed to the designated route. not today. for patients currently well managed on warfarin, there is limited information on how xarelto® and warfarin compare in reducing the risk of stroke. xarelto® is just one pill a day taken with the evening meal. plus, with no known dietary restrictions, jim can eat the healthy foods he likes. don't stop taking xarelto®, rivaroxaban, unless your doctor tells you to.
while taking xarelto®, you may bruise more easily and it may take longer for bleeding to stop. xarelto® may increase your risk of bleeding if you take certain medicines. xarelto® can cause serious bleeding, and in rare cases, may be fatal. get help right away if you develop unexpected bleeding, unusual bruising, or tingling. if you have had spinal anesthesia while on xarelto®, watch for back pain or any nerve or muscle related signs or symptoms. do not take xarelto® if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. tell your doctor before all planned medical or dental procedures. before starting xarelto®, tell your doctor about any conditions such as kidney, liver, or bleeding problems. jim changed his routine. ask your doctor about xarelto®. once-a-day xarelto® means no regular blood monitoring, no known dietary restrictions. for information and savings options, download the xarelto® patient center app, call 1-888-xarelto, or visit goxarelto.com. which means it's timeson for the volkswagen sign-then-drive event.
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