hair and i put stuff on it. i put it in. lather. i like lots of lather because i like it to come out extremely dry because it seems to be slightly thicker that way. and i lather up and then you turn on this crazy shower and the thing drip, drip. you say, i'm going to be here for 45 minutes. what the -- restricters like here. it rains a lot in certain places. you know? but no. their idea, did you see the other day? they just -- i opened it up and though closed it again. i open it, they close it. washing machine to wash your dishes. there is a problem. they don't want you to have any water. they want no water. >> you were just listening to former president trump. we are going to the things he was discussing there. >> they had to cut away from the washing machine. >> what is the analysis of drip, drip, drip? green hair? fox news cut away from donald trump's speech rally in philadelphia on saturday as he droned on about low water pressures in homes. >> washing machines. >> washing his hair. how he likes a lot of lather. imagine if joe biden did this, by the way? it would be 24-hour coverage of joe biden losing it. this? they go to break. we will show you more of donald trump's comments as we are days away from the first meeting between trump and president biden in more than three and a half years. we will have the latest on debate preps and strategies for both sides. also today is two years since the supreme court's decision on dobbs, ending federal protections for abortion care. to mark this day, i spoke exclusively with vice president kamala harris and abortion rights advocate hadley duvall whose emotional deeply personal story helped democratic governor andy bashir win last year. welcome. it's monday, june 24th. with us we have the host of "way too early," white house bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire. reverend al sharpton is joining us. u.s. special correspondent for bbc news, katty kay. nbc news national affairs analyst john heilemann. he is a partner and chief political columnist at puck. good to have you here. >> great to have everybody. what a lineup! >> wow. happy monday. >> like a red sox lineup right now. john heilemann, you can read until the papers this weekend and this morning that the trump people have belatedly figured out that lying about joe biden's incoherence and during tapes to suggest he is not -- was a bad idea. now they are trying to, like, reverse track and say, oh, no. he is a debater and maybe he is going to take drugs and he should be drug tested because he is going to end up doing so well. i'm not going to do that here. donald trump when you look at any of his speeches front-to-back looks like he is off his rocker. it's crazy things he says. it's crazy what people stand there and applaud for. here, they just look thoroughly confused and fox news had to cut away because they are like i got nothing here, i got nothing. >> what do you do with that? >> when fox news thinks there is too much lather going on with donald trump and they are so -- like too much lather. he likes to lather. a lot of lather. that is how you know that he has jumped -- you mentioned sharks there, i think i heard you? >> sure. >> i don't think he talked about sharks in this event, but he has metaphorically jumped the shark. i think that is right. i wouldn't make any long-range bets on the fact that they have given up -- the trump campaign has given up doctoring video or other kinds of cheap fake, deep fake misinformation, disinformation. i think we will see a whole lot of that going forward. we seem to be in this moment with the debate this close in hand. i do think -- look. i think trump is probably personally thinks he is going to this debate on thursday and get the better of president biden. i think they are comparing the two of them who seems more coherent and more presidential. i think a contrast that doesn't necessarily cleanly work to donald trump's advantage. they seem to be letting off the gas at least as we head into this week maybe they want to lay off of that comparison. >> requiring a drug test is kind of a low bar. okay. former president trump spoke at two events on saturday. a christian conference in washington and then a rally in philadelphia. and here are some of his more notable remarks. >> the whole thing was they wanted the roe v wade was federal and they wanted it back in the states so the people could vote and make their decisions. it's now up to the will of the people in each state. some states will be more conservative. other states will be more liberal. it's happening now. you see the votes are all taking place. and it's the way every legal scholar and just about all of the democrats and all of the republicans and conservatives and liberals, they all wanted it that way. we did something that was amazing. christians go to church but they don't vote that much! do you know the power you have if you would vote? you got to get out and vote. just this time. i don't care. if four years, you don't have to vote, okay? in four years, don't vote. i don't care! but, heck. we will have it all straightened out! my stupid people, when i wanted to refute it, they said, sir? don't dignify it with a refutable or refuddled? he didn't know! they don't know either. we have to get out there. we have to vote. we have to make sure everything is honest and you keep your eyes open. you know? you're the police in a way. you could police your vote. a lot of people don't know that. just make sure that vote counts. we have to make sure it counts. i told dana white, here is what we are going to do. these are tough cookies coming into our country. he is coming with prisons and mental institutions. i said, dana, i have an idea for you to make a lot of money. you're going to go and start a new migrant fight league. only migrants. at the end of the year, the champion migrant is going to fight your champion and i hate to tell you, dana, i think my migrant might win. that's how tough they are. we saved the world from those and now they decide to at that time names off. wait until you see ultimately what happens with those names. i call it a transition. like transitioning. they have a transition name before they name it. the reverend al sharpton, fort al sharpton. now you can just imagine. you can just imagine. but this is a transition. they have done a couple of transitions. these people, they are sick. >> sick? they are sick! no. they don't like losers. they don't like losers, donald. i know you like losers. you like losing. you've lost seven years in a row. i don't know if you know, but because of you, your party lost in 2017, your party lost in 2018, your party lost in 2019, your party lost in 2020, your party lost in 2021, your party lost in 2022, your party lost in 2023. if the past is pro longed, your party is going to lose in 2024. yeah, southerners like myself, we don't really like naming forts after loser. that is not transition. we want to name forts after american patriots who win wars. donald, maybe you should see the beginning of patton and george c. scott stands in front of an american flag and says americans don't want and won't abide losers. they want winners. so, yeah, we don't want some loser who tried to overthrow the federal government so slavery could continue another hundred years or so. we like winners. i say that as a southerner, okay? a little worried about alabama crimson tide. we will be as good as saban? i don't know. if he is not, they will fire him. does that -- that is how we think in the south. that's how we think in america. you want to name forts after losers, after confederate soldiers and generals? rev al, i'll take a fort sharpton. it sounds nice! it sounds nice about america and a military moving toward a more perfect union and not stuck in its slave holding past like poor donald there wants us to be stuck in the mid 1800s. >> well, i think that one of the things that comes to mind is, of course, he is playing to a crowd that clearly is against some of the things that i've represented civil rights and other things. the fact he is representing himself. most military bases are served as people who served in the military. one of the thing he and i have in common is neither one of us served in the military. you think after four years as president he would know by now what military bases are for. he is also showing to say we should not take military generals or military people off of naming our military bases as you've just talked about, joe. it shows how he embraces confederates being served as taxpayers of all races are paying for. let's remember when we had the marches of blacks and jews together in charlottesville for the removal of the robert e. lee statue. one lady was killed. it was trump saying fine people were on both sides. he reminds us of is embrace of that and to take it a step further, if the collage he is staying women's rights ought to be done by the states right. the whole civil rights was get away from states rights and let the government protect our civil rights. now he is saying women's rights should be dealt state-by-state, which was exactly the template of segregation and something the civil rights movement and now the women's right movement must fight against. >> thursday night's debate looms as an undeniably important moment in this campaign. president biden is comparing by camp david with most of his trusted advisers going to through debate prep. we showed how donald trump is preparing. he is at rallies and incoherent remarks and as noted in one of those clips, even proposing a usc style fighting championship among migrants. he said it at both that rally in philadelphia, as well as at a christian conference. at that conference as well, he got cheers, he got laughter. this is where his audience is. that is what he thinks works but do we really think that kind of stuff is going to play thursday night when he is actually trying to win over undecided voters? >> and his campaign comes back and says that was a joke and the lips can't take a joke and they think we are talking about some kind of human cock fighting thing and this is the crowd martial arts that they are involved in. it's a dog whistle about migrants again. that is a large part of his campaign. he has been telling us -- i mean, it was interesting at one rally over the weekend he is polling the crowd. remember. this is his debate prep but owe is polling the crowd how he should actually perform and say should i go after him, attack? or should i just be quiet and meek and one get cheers and one gets boos. one thing that i am hearing from the trump campaign, you talked to both campaigns, john, they both sound very confident about thursday night. one of the things that they have said is they think actually paradoxically the format helps donald trump because having his mike killed for that time, it was back in 2020, i still have ptsd from that debate. it wasn't a debate. it was a nightmare. they think the fact he is going to be muted means that actually it will help him not come across as being so bullying, so crazy seeming, so extreme so they are pretty confidence this is a format that works for them. let's wait until we see thursday night. >> reverend al, jonathan lemire brought up that donald trump was speaking to a group i guess they call themselves christian nationals. they call creme themselves christians. they are about politics and not faith. donald trump talked about a fight club for migrants and that jesus talked about. there is not an overlay there really with -- i never have heard this in any church growing up. you would have never heard this in any church growing up. yet, donald trump goes into this so-called christian conference talking about a fight club for migrants. they are laughing and cheering. about as far away from a good samaritan and jesus says i think matthews 41, through 36. nothing is further apart than what jesus said and donald trump is saying and, of course, that just doesn't matter to them. >> no. you have the scripture right in matthew. he said and he called to tell the ufc they should make money using these migrants to fight each other and then he wants to exploit them. this is his proposition. let's use them. let's let them fight each other. the winner can fight our champion but these are tough guys. all for exploiting making money. he said that he said to her you can make a lot of money off of this. like you can make money off these people. at the same time, he tells the christian crowd, you christians don't vote enough, which is absurd on its face but is now tantamount to voting you must vote for him to confirm your christian it's? it should have been insulting. >> again, if joe biden said this to any audience, dot, dot, dot. you know how it goes. former adviser to george w. bush republican karl rove is saying that trump's current slump in the polls may not just be like a blip but part of a longer trend. on fox news on saturday, rove broke down why he thinks this is the case. >> there has been a transcend may 30th guilty verdict in the new york case. so biden has had numbers that have been moving up under women and seniors. he is still underperforming along women. trump is doing well among black and other campaigns in his own. you're right. absolutely the movement is among independents and they have moved in recent polls roughly nine points toward biden. if 21% of independents in a survey shortly after the conviction said that they were less likely to vote for donald trump as a result of the conviction. >> john heilemann, again, in close elections where michigan, where wisconsin, where pennsylvania is going to be decided probably by under a point, that sort of fluctuation voting matter. the one thing karl rove did not bring up of donald trump that will tell you he has the joan rivers vote locked away like he has in the past. >> oh, my. >> he at least has got that on the side. independents have broken away. again, we hear it every four years, donald trump is going to get 20% of the black vote and 25% of the black vote. it just doesn't happen. >> well, as i will begin by saying my usually song here. march of error race will be close and a margin error of race through election day and we are still in the margin of error. but the same way we talk about like any individual poll doesn't matter very much but trend lines matter. you know, i sent out with -- last week and talked about the numbers. you look at the fact that trump basically this calendar year, trump's peak lead in the polling averages was at its peak in january after it came out about four points. last week, again, within the -- way inside the margin of error for the first time all year, in the 538 poll he averaged biden moved ahead by a trivial number but not just the last month, i would say. karl rove knows these numbers but it's not just the last month. it's a six month very gradual trend line is heading in joe biden's direction. closing a four-point gap over six months in a race that is a margin of error race is meaningful. i asked jen o'malley dillon whether they are seeing those numbers on the national level but in the battleground states and whether the verdict seems to be playing a part of it and her answer was yes. they are playing attention to the battleground states and seeing on the margins, small, but meaningful inching toward joe biden and a difference seems to make a difference to that. we are so far inside the mrgin of error you couldn't be more inside of it. i think both sides know it and another reason that explains part of why the pressure on trump is mounting around this debate as much as on biden. they are not dumb about reading polls either. >> no question trend lines moving towards biden even if in a small way. to john's point it's a margin of error race and the role that third-party candidates will play a big key factor here. robert f. kennedy did not qualify for this thursday debate but he still looms large. we heard over the weekend trump actually talking about joe stein and west saying he likes them and stay in the race and support them because he knows drawing a sliver could be a factor to this race. >> has he figured out if he like i said rfk jr. or not? polls said he might take more from trump than biden. >> he is doing this weird dance. his advisers are still trying to figure out how to handle this. on one hand he is critical of rfk jr. and then he compliments him and put out a video when rfk jr. did not qualify for the debates and seemed sympathetic toward rfk jr. he recognizes that rfk draws from both men and maybe more from trump but trump is anxious will alienating the rfk voters. if he goes after rfk jr. too hard he thinks he could win otherwise. i've been told they are trying to navigate this where they are being critical but don't want to overdo t at least for now. a story line to watch. >> sounds a little complicated. i think it's which way the wind is blowing headline wise. still ahead on "morning joe," today marks two years since the dobbs ruling from the supreme court overturning roe. we will play for you president biden's new comments marking this day. plus, my exclusive conversation with vice president kamala harris who has been a leading voice for the administration on this issue. a special guest. you're watching "morning joe." we are back in 90 seconds. g "mo" we are back in 90 seconds. with so many choices on booking.com there are so many tina feys i could be. so i hired body doubles. mountain climbing tina at a cabin. or tree climbing tina at a beach resort. nice! booking.com booking.yeah. kids love summer break, but parents? well... care.com makes it easy to find background checked childcare that fits your summer schedule. from long term to short notice. give yourself a break this summer. go to care.com now. here is what donald trump says about your people. 50 years of failure with nobody coming even close, i was able to kill roe v wade. two years ago the supreme court justices that trump hands-picked helped overturn roe v wade. >> never before has the court granted or taken away a widely recognized constitutional right. >> new laws banning abortion are taking effect. >> decades of progress shattered just because the last guy got three years in the white house. you know what will happen if he gets another four. for republicans roe is just the beginning. they will try to ban the right to -- extremism. sent me back to the white house and i'll file like hell to restore roe v wade and protect american freedom. >> that was an exclusive first look at the biden campaign's new message on the two-year anniversary of the fall of roe. to mark this day, i sat down for an exclusively interview with vice president kamala harris who has been the administration's leading voice on this issue, as well as a young woman by the name of hadley duvall. hadley, as you may recall, was the subject of a powerful campaign ad last year from kentucky's democratic governor andy besheer featuring her story as a sexual abuse survivor. >> i was raped by my father. i was 12. anybody who believes there should be no exceptions for rape and incest can never understand what it's like to stands in my shoes. this is to you, daniel cameron. to tell a girl who has to have the baby of a father who raped her is unbelievable. >> that ad is credited with playing a role in governor beshear winning re-election in one of the most conservative states in the country. now, hadley is speaking out on behalf of the biden campaign in defense of abortion rights and here is our discussion. >> this is your first national media interview. >> yes. >> and given what is at stake today, can you tell people what you want them to take away from to know about your personal and deeply painful story and why it's so relevant to women today? >> women, today, if they are walking in the shoes that i was in, which was pregnancy from rape, then, you know, they don't have any option in a lot of states and they are at risk for having no options after the election. you know? and that is, you know, very terrifying. still for i'll be that little girl and that is really who i do this for and knowing that i was in that position and the only thing that allowed me to hold on to hope were the words -- you have options." this is the first things i heard after i looked at a positive pregnancy test at 12 years old. >> wow. you were abused by your step-father, correct? >> yes. >> it took a while to tell your mom about this. this was your abuser was her husband. this question is for young girls out there who may be in a similar situation. >> when i was younger, it took, you know, a lot of planning. i would sit and i would say, okay, the next time i will tell. or, you know, if this happens, i will tell. or i would always have a reason, you know, and wait for that push and it would come around i would get scared. my mom is a recovering addict. so when i was young, she went away to in-patient rehab and i knew what that looks like. i was finally in a point of my life that i had prayed for. my mom was not using drugs any more and she was home and she was sober. when i threatened to tell, i was told, you know, you'll risk your mom's sobriety. so that really stuck with me. you know, it always made me just want to keep the peace because it was, you know, my family. the family that i had been hoping for and praying for so long. but then i was realizing that i didn't have peace and that seemed to be most important. so, honestly, just, you know, going into high school and knowing there were a lot of milestones not just me but my sibling was about to accomplish. i just didn't feel like we had to live in a secret any more. so i honestly texted my mom from school and i said, don't let me back out of what i need to tell you tonight. she started asking me some questions. and i actually came and picked me up from school and i told her. i couldn't even look at her. mom, i don't know how to say this to you so i'm blurting it out. i've been sexually abused for ten years. immediately, she was like, okay. we got to figure something out. you're going to go stay with a friend. financials. my mom was in cosmetology school and had no income. >> now you're speaking out. because a trump win would mean what for little girls in the situation you were in? >> it would mean the inimaginable. it would mean that they have no options. not even women and girls but, you know, women with nonviable pregnancies. wanted prosecutings that are nonviable that are killing these women, it will be no traveling to another state. it will be no options based on where you live. it will just be one rule for everybody and that will be no abortions and that is a very, very dangerous world for women, not only young girls, but all women. >> madam vice president, you're here with hadley, in part, because she is amazing and because her story resonates with you deeply. you have been close to similar stories in your own life. may have even set the path 6 your career. >> yeah. >> prosecuting sexual violence cases. can you tell us about that? >> so, mika, when i was in high school, i learned that my best friend was being molested by her step-father. and when i learned about it, i said to her, you have to come live with us. i called my mother. my mother said, of course, she has to come stay with us and she did. and so at a young age, i decided i wanted to do the work that was about protecting women and children, and i became a prosecutor and i specialized in particularly child sexual assault. and the fact that after the dobbs decision came down, that laws have been proposed and passed, that as hadley has said, makes no exceptions, even for rape or incest, think about what these extremists are saying to a survivor of a crime of violence to their body, a survivor of a crime that is a violation of their body. and to say to that survivor, and you have no right or authority to make a decision about what happens to your body next. that is immoral. that is immoral. and i, again, i say all of that to say that, hadley, you are -- you are doing such important work to be a voice, because i'll also mention that the majority of these cases don't get reported. you know? and some states, they passed a law, if a woman or a girl reports it to the police, then they might be eligible for an abortion. well, a lot of survivors don't report it to the police because of fear of retribution that they fear will be even worse than what they are enduring. >> hadley, miscarried. if she needed care for that today, depending on where you live, you may not get it. it's been two years now since roe was overturned. now we are dealing with the raw reality of that, which is women bleeding out in parking lots, on bathroom floors. i'm curious what your thoughts were when roe was overturned and now what we do with the cases before us, like idaho if supreme court goes with the state, are women able to get abortion care in e.r.s in idaho? are there going to be any other options? >> first of all, i will say let's be clear how we got here, because the former president hand-selected three members of the united states supreme court with the intention that they would undo the protections of roe v wade and they did exactly as he intended. and in state after state, we are seeing what i call trump abortion bans, including states that six-week abortion ban, which tells us that these legislators clearly don't know how a woman's body works, or they don't care. in that, most women don't know they are pregnant in six weeks. to your point, mika, there are two, i think, coexisting issues here i think are extremely important. one is the notion no that the highest court in our land just took a fundamental right that had been recognized from the people of america, from the women of america to make decisions about their own body. the notion of it all, that in this year of 2024, the highest court in the united states of america would take such a fundamental freedom from its people? and understanding this is not just a matter that is for debate and discussion and intellectual conversation. the real harm that has occurred every day in america since that case was decided and these laws are being passed, to your point, we know the stories about women seeking care because they are going through a miscarriage and being turned away by an emergency room because the physicians there are afraid they will be. you in jail. in a state like texas, they provide in prison for life for a health care provider doing their job. i think when you look at this issue, i think most people agree you don't have to abandon your faith. you don't have to abandon your faith or deeply-held beliefs that the government should not be able to tell women who had with their body. they will consult with their priest or rabbi but not the government at what they could do. >> if you have a woman in your life who means something to you, her life is at stake. it does not matter if she is 12, 9, 34. it really does not matter. if there is a woman who is in that reproductive age, then, you know, her life is at stake during this election and it does not matter if you've never voted democrat in your life, you know? it's get off your high horse because women, we don't get to choose, you know, a whole lot and you can at least choose who you vote for. there is a lot of things that need to be worked on and we can't get it all done, but at the very least, we could get out of women's business when it involves their health care. i always say i'm pro-minding your own business. if you're religion, live it loudly but don't expect your religion to make the laws. your religion should be lived through and through, whether that is the law or not. however you came up, however you want to live your religion, it shouldn't be forced on anybody else. and, you know, it shouldn't -- your religion shouldn't determine everybody's outcome because i don't believe that my god that i worship and that i've learned about all of my life would have ever wished something like that upon me. >> so powerful. she is. it's a question that you have to ask when you hear a 10-year-old girls who have been raped have to flee the state and you're sitting there going, wait. you're saying that is what jesus would want? to say that is open to interpretation is like an understatement. but, you know, your god should not dictate what everybody does. it was powerful. also, she said she was pro-minding your own business. remember that libertarian voter we had on the focus group who said he was libertarian? but this was such a frightening step for him because he didn't trust the federal government with his money, if he didn't trust the ferguson with his property, if he didn't trust the ferguson with -- what about freedom over health care choices and freedom over his own body? >> access to health care. these women are being denied health care and hadley is 100% correct. what is at stake in this election is women's lives. and we have already seen, because of the overturning of roe, case after case after case. the biden campaign will be putting a frame around this of women left to bleed out, left on their own, miscarrying on their own, not given abortion care for other reasons that they might have problems because they are being denied because these doctors are afraid of administering the care. they are decimating women's health care by the overturning of roe. expect to hear more from hadley in the next couple of days. and now, katty kay, think about what we played at the top of the show. donald trump talk about the overturning of roe. we did something exciting. your thoughts. >> well, we will all be better off when hadley is running for office. it's rare to hear somebody so articulate and calm and reasonable. if you think what she has gone through in her childhood, so incredibly resilient as well. she really made the case for what we are facing in this election for women, but also for why the polls, since the overturning of roe v wade have consistently moved and showing americans are moving more in favor of protecting reproductive rights, not less. it's exactly her kind of story. i mean, donald trump is out on the campaign trail. we know that he has kind of had conflicting moments with the overturning of roe. he derided other republicans for being too tough on this but he can't have it both ways. he can't claim credit for it and say he is excited he overturned it with some sort of technicality while we pushed it back to the states. we see what the chaos that unleashed. we have hospitals in idaho helicoptering women out of the state because they can't give them the kind of treatment they need. we have doctors in texas thinking, are her organs failing enough and is she infected and bleeding enough before we can do that kind of procedure on women? i think what is remarkable what hadley said when you asked her what this meant, she immediately turned to the other women. is as women so observe do she is a voice for all of the women who want to have children. this is not about women, just about women who have pregnancies often in difficult circumstances and need to end those pregnancies for reasons and these are women who want those children who are on pro-life want to have children but can't. >> reverend, we will hear more from the vice president in a bit. but this is a key role for vice president kamala harris to really be a voice on this issue as you see the numbers out there. the polls out there show that most americans support abortion and, yet, perhaps the most important role for her will be to highlight these stories. what is happening now because of the overturn of roe. what is happening to women now. the specific cases which are utterly frightening. >> i think it is the role that is the strongest of many other vital roles the vice president plays at this point. and for her to sit there with hadley and talk about the pain that women have to go through to make these decisions, and the pain they go through in, in this case, being violated by a step-father -- many of us, i know in my family, have gone through similar things and it humanizes the issue where it's not just us against them but you're talking about peoples lives and real hard decisions. i think the vice president is right one to bring that forward when she talks about she had her best friend in school that went through the same thing. that is a little deeper than playing party politics. >> yeah. absolutely. in our next hour, we are going to play for you the vice president's take on who donald trump may pick for his running mate this year. also ahead, we will show you the moment climate protesters created chaos in the final moments of a golf tournament. 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has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. dave's company just scored the so clearly you. comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? -five years. introducing the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. powering 5 years of savings. powering possibilities. oh, boy. we got -- we have got a whole group of protesters here. they have been tackled on the ground on the green. police have responded quickly, but we have got -- see. i see four protesters who have been handcuffed. >> police are always trying to run at scottie scheffler. cops all around this guy it seems like. six climate protesters swarmed the 18th green at the travelers champion. they came on to the course as the leaders were getting ready to finish the final hole of regulation. protesters threw smoke bombs and wore white t-shirts and they are facing charges and released after posting 5,000 dollar bond. after that, a playoff hole with scheffler hitting his approach shot 11 feet of the hole and kim found a greenside bunker and scheffler won. the most in one season on the pga tour since tiger woods won six times. espn's pablo, scheffler, cops. explain! >> it doesn't get -- it doesn't really -- i want to characterize it this way. scottie scheffler was a guy nobody could recognize facially before he had that interaction with the cops in louisville. we talked about this. the cop claimed he had pants damaged beyond repair $80. we saw police photos and body cam footage of that. was the louisville major and it doesn't get boring for scottie scheffler it turns out. this circumstance here. look i'm not here to tell somebody if you believe with conviction that the planet is dying and you need to do something about it that this is not worth it. i get the motive. i just also see this, though, as a sports fan or even a golfer, which i am not. if i'm scottie scheffler i'm legitimately concerned somebody is spraying powder around here and police running around. it seems just not generally a great idea, i would say, when it comes to what could have happened here? so, joe. it's just one of those things where i'm not even sure there is effectiveness here upside really for the cause you brought even if you believe in it. i think this could have gone really badly and result in more security protocols which is bad for everybody who attends sporting events around america as you might imagine. >> am i just ignorance or is there some reason you would go after a golf tournament? >> oh, right. >> why the golf tournament? >> yeah. >> because you use a lot of stuff on the grass? and it's very bad for the planet. i'm just -- it's definitely not good. >> i never have understand things like that never really u things like that really helping with the cause, helping with the undecideds. >> i don't think so in this case. it's also -- i mean, we're now doing a better job of clarifying what their mission was even than they were at the time, so maybe that's part of it. also, they blamed like them for injuring people. at some point i'm just glad that no one really got hurt. >> that's all i think about. >> in a post- 9/11 america, i'm glad no one got seriously hurt, pants included. >> no pants, destroyed beyond repair. we've got a lot to get through in a little time here. the first -- the first topic, so we can stay on it just a short while. titanic called the pitching staff. they are ready to go on a cruise in your direction. the yankees, what is wrong, bob lowe? >> it's not great. i was hoping maybe we'd run out of time before we got to this topic. i'll add mitt it. the yankees are hurting. i believe they are 2-8 in the last ten. they just lost to the braves. aaron judge is sort of the only person who is resembling somebody who i can trust anymore. juan soto is hurt, giancarlo stanton got hurt and rizzo is hurt and i can point out the gaze, your red sox are 7-3 in the last ten so it's brutal. >> you know. it's very interesting. >> yeah. it's brutal. 8-2 or 7-3, 8-2. we lose count, lemire, don't we? >> it's not great for me. >> you know, we went in -- we split with the worst team in baseball, jonathan lemire and then took two out of three from the phillies and the yankees and swept the blue jays. looked like we were about to get swept by the reds and that happened with dom. my god. i really -- i don't even know how to describe the people who don't watch him every day. jarred duran. i just haven't seen as dynamic of a player as duran. >> we're watching him right here. >> in saturday's game in the ninth protecting a one-run lead. duran climbing the fence there. a spectacular catch there. he did it with his defense and offense. red sox still nine games out but pablo, pablo has looked today, multiple shirts with collars, steve bannon-esque. >> how dare you. >> he pulls it off much better. >> look at the -- there's like a little -- like the buttons. there's not buttons. there's a little loop. >> why am i being bullied? >> why is that happening? >> just one question. it's very nautical. it's very like french sailor kind of thing. >> the saddest part of this entire thing. look at the chyron here. surging red sox cut a.l. east deficit to single digits. that was nine games. the yankees are in front. >> a wild card team. >> if the season were to end today. despite the fact we spent no money in the off-season again. we're only training barn hill country buffet, tickets in pensacola for our players. if the season were to end today, lemire, who is going to the playoffs in the wild card? >> we would be a wild card team. and pablo, you haven't mentioned, when boston teams make the playoffs, they have had some success. haven't said anything about the sell six. have we moved on? >> congratulations. >> congratufreakinglations a truly starving for a championship jonathan lemire. >> why are you sucking up? >> have to feel bad for lemire being from boston. it's like loserville in atlanta. >> it's ridiculous. >> we want to get to kathy's incredible interview with magic in a second. >> yes, i love that. >> but we have to talk about it. the nba has been a snoozefest for me over the past couple of decades. this year, so many compelling teams. >> you've been radicalized. >> i got hooked. >> and now something you haven't heard me say in a long time, i've got to watch that nhl game tonight. >> yes. >> whoa. >> please, for people who don't follow hockey, set this extraordinary series finale up. >> i'll put it in your lingua. the edmonton oilers are trying to go '04 red sox. the florida panthers were up 3-0 in a series and three games in a row the edmonton oilers have come back to win. it's been wildly impressive. edmonton, if you haven't been paying attention, has arguably the most talented player in connor mcdavid. the florida panthers are currently choking, so right now we're looking ahead tonight to a game seven, and it's not just about the edmonton oilers winning. it's about canada. so if you've not been paying attention to hockey, canada's really good at it, but they haven't won the stanley cup, joe, in 31 years. >> yeah. >> so edmonton is not just going to south florida to try and embarrass the panthers. they are trying to right what feels like a cosmic wrong. a canadian team has not lifted lord stanley's cup in over three decades. that may end tonight. it's must-watch television and playoff hockey, if anybody has ever given a second of attention, is the best version of this thing. it will radicalize you caring about a sport that maybe you knew nothing about. >> i will tell you. first of all, canada, you are so right. canada is going crazy over this series. it's pretty awesome. tyler o'neill, after the red sox won yet another game, all he wanted to do was talk about the stanley cup playoff because o'neill was born in canada, right? but i'll tell you, as far as radicalization of people who don't know much about hockey, mika. >> yes. >> florida, i'm telling you, flowerians. >> yes. >> especially south floridians from key west all the way up past north of palm beach county. >> got it. >> crazy about the panthers. like in these playoff games, just towns have shut down. >> okay. >> it's really crazy what -- or at least the pizza places have shut down. you've got to order four hours ahead. >> all right. >> it's like the super bowl. people are so fired up about it. >> we need to wrap that up. >> pablo, thank you. >> i want pablo to stick around because we've got to talk about kathy's interview with magic afterwards. >> stay for that. >> and we'll see how lemire tries to loop that back around to larry bird and the celtics. should be interesting. >> of course. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll speak to "the washington post", the voters who will talk to who will decide the election, the undecideds in swing states. what she uncovered still ahead on "morning joe." g states what she uncovered still ahead on "morning joe. it's hard to run a business on your own. make it easier on yourself. with shopify, you can have your inventory, payments, and customers in sync across all the places you sell. start your journey with a free trial today. >> are republicans in trouble because they have spent a lot of time in recent weeks how president biden can't find his way off the stage and we saw what happened at the state of the union when we saw what happened and there was a ton of praise for him. >> they have to be very careful. i don't know why republicans fall into that trap of setting hoy expectations. i mean, they -- they -- this debate, shannon, to me is fascinate being because it's a combination of agenda and acute. it's contempt and cognition, so the viewers will be watching both. not only what you say but are you fit for office? so i don't recall a debate in my lifetime where both of those issues were front and center for both of the candidates, not just what you say but, i mean, can you remember which day of the week it is? that's going to be an issue. >> trey gowdy brings up some great points. >> yeah. >> which is republicans keep making the same mistake. john heilemann, they keep making the same mistake. with biden, they did it in 2020. they did it in 2022. they continue to make the same mistake. newt gingrich even after '22 wrote a column going, guys, you are making joe biden the eisenhower and ronald reagan of the democratic party because democrats always called those two guys stupid old men who were out of their minds and they wound up winning landslides of every time. they say that about biden. we keep underestimating biden. gingrich, of course, immediately after that began underestimating biden again, and it's just like republicans can't help -- i mean, i'm trying to help them. i'm trying to help. >> yeah. >> so they don't just keep losing, but i'm really not helping that hard, but i -- they -- they won't listen, but trey gowdy is right here. they keep saying that he's lost his mind. they keep doctoring photos, the videos, and they keep lowering expectations so biden shows up. does pretty well. it's a grand slam. >> just shows up. >> yeah. >> i mean, joe, i know it's a retorcal trope on your part that you're trying to help them. >> thank you. >> i know you're not really trying to help them. >> i love democracy so i'm not actually trying to. >> a party full of avoid insurrectionists. >> racists, insurrectionists. >> yeah. >> i'll just stick with the vast majority of them still maintain that the 2020 election was stolen and that donald trump should be the rightful president right now, but, look, here's the thing. you comment all the time correctly on the fact that the republican party is so thick that they have not gotten the message of losing under donald trump in 2021, '22, all the way 2017 through 2023. that's a long-term kind of thickness. here's a short-term one. they did this thing around the state of the union where they basically essentially portrayed biden as if he was a sign i'll, addled incompetent old man who wouldn't be able to get through three minutes of his speech without drooling on his shirt and people stood up and said whoa. the bar was set so low by republicans that all he had to to was stay upright and instead he did way better than that. huge political victory for them. quieted nervous democrats. began, you could argue, the beginning of the slow uptick in the polling that we've seen over the course of the last six months, and now here we are heading to this debate again and republicans are just, you know, both in their words and deeds doing the same thing all over again. it's like -- everybody thinks about these people as conspiratorial. people would say, hey, let's not do a bunch of cheap fake videos and deep fake videos and talk about how joe biden is frozen, he can barely speak. he doesn't know where he is, because you're just setting the standard where if he's minimally competent on thursday, everyone is going to say, wow, big win for joe biden. i think he'll be more than man malley competent and they should have learned this lesson. it was just a few months ago. >> exactly, and now you've got do ronny johnson of all people. >> it's jackson. >> dr. ronny johnson. >> donald trump will tell you it's ronny johnson. >> calling dr. johnson. >> stop it. >> you've got ronny johnson talking about how they need to test him for drugs or being intoxicated. jonathan lemire. i've seen real video clips. i don't know that dr. ronny johnson should be the first person to talk bin toxcation. >> or if you look at the list of the drugs that he put out about the white house mess, take a look at that, that list. >> plenty of stories about that, and it remains had a mistery to many people in the obama white house who liked dr. ronny jackson quite a bit how he quickly debased himself to be with trump and now trump can't even get his name right when he was talking about how he was so cognitively fit. it was dr. ronny johnson when it was dr. ronny jackson, but, yes, that's where we are right now. >> trump says it's johnson. >> dr. johnson, yes. where this thursday, i know there's so much focus and polls suggest, fair or not, that americans have more questions about joe biden's mental fitness for office than they do donald trump, even though biden has repeatedly answered the call, and most would arc. >> right. >> had a pretty solid presidential record. there's danger here for trump on thursday, too. we've charted on this show his potential decline. we have seen the pace of his missteps grow and grow and grow. there's a real chance that he's the one who melts down on thursday, not president biden. president biden, mind you, preparing at camp david for a solid week here for this debate while donald trump is out there talking about sharks and such and migrant fighting rings on the campaign drill. >> drip, drip. >> get it right. washing machines. >> i like a lather. i like a good lather. >> he's very big. >> a good lather. >> we've got reverend al sharpton with us, of course, the inspiration for the upcoming fort sharpton. i want to talk to you about thursday and whether or not they will rise -- the u.s. will rise above slovenia, but ahead of the olympics in paris you talked with one of the most legendary athletes from the previous olympic games, including basketball great magic johnson which is at the start of your new series "influential." >> i love it. >> you've got someone like caitlin clark. this incredible phenomenon, who looked like single-handedly she's risen women's basketball up to a different level. >> and she did. >> and how has that changed the game? >> i think that, you know, just like larry bird and i changed the men's ncaa tournament forever and then we changed the nba together forever. caitlin clark changed women's college basketball game forever. she's changing right now the wnba, and she's had an impact already. >> no. too high. >> right. >> okay. come on. take a step back. right there. >> okay. remember, your right hand has to be right directly behind the ball. >> right there. >> there you go. >> there it is. >> i told you. you are a pro now, see. see. that's all you had to do. you're a pro now. that's it. that's it. go home. rap, rap. >> how nice. he seems like so fast and a blast. i love his comments about caitlin clark. he really put into context the turning point that women's basketball and sports is at. >> first of all, i had to feel sorry for him teaching me how to shoot a basketball having never picked one up before. it's a sign of how gracious he is helping me get it in the hoop. he's one of four athletes ever to be named a billionaire which is interesting he's money outside the sport he's famous for and very focused on the business model of the sport and what he said about caitlin clark is she's expanding all of the audiences. she's bringing in younger people and families and bringing a lot more women into the sport so the economic model of basketball is changing under her watch. it was just such a -- he is so generous and warm and talked all about getting hiv, about what it meant to him to play in the '92 olympics, the dream team that went to barcelona. you know. he said there are all these people, thousands and thousands of people lining the streets, and he hadn't realized before then how big they were around the world, and that really -- >> so cool. >> it really brought it home to him how global the dream team was. >> and pablo, just to bounce off of this interview, caitlin clark. >> yes. >> in many ways helped people discover how exciting and fast moving women's basketball is. >> yeah. >> magic is right. by the way, two thoughts. no one in the world, i would say, is better at being rich than magic johnson. >> yes. >> we would all kill for his approval ratingsings. on a yacht with samuel l. jackson, love that clip and right on the substance of it. if you look at the numbers for the wnba this season, viewership records for the wnba have been set for six different networks because caitlin clark has been playing in those games. yesterday, they lost to the indiana fever against her rival in the way magic and bird were rivals, can angel reese and caitlin clark be developing stina lykke that? two rookie of the year candidates drawing attention to the game and convincing a guy in magic who knows what a cultural transformation looks like around sports and that's what they are doing right now in front of everybody. >> full episode of "influential" with katty kay available each sunday available on the bbc's youtube pay. katty, that's amazing, and the host of pablo torre. >> good luck. >> you'll need it. >> thoughts and prayers. >> thoughts and prayers. joining the conversation now, we have senior national political correspondent for "the washington post" ashley parker. your latest reporting, you traveled to a town in western wisconsin last month to discuss this fall's election with so-called double haters. voters who dislike both of this election's canned day, and you conducted more than 60 interviews and found sentiments ranging from resignation to dismay and disbelief and anger over an election in which both the democratic and republican parties have served up the same two deeply unpopular candidates. what more can you tell us? >> so, i went to hudson, wisconsin, very far western wisconsin. basically a riverer town on river that divides wisconsin from minnesota, and i chose hudson because in 2020, which was an election where we knew that something was at stake at that point, right? the margin between trump and biden who won there was -- was just 155 votes. sebastien smaller than the number of people who took the time to show up to the polls and vote for someone else. sort of in essence a protest vote, and it's emblematic of the state, too, where that same thing happened where biden won but the people who showed up and voted for someone other than trump or biden, the election could have swung so these are the voters who in many ways will decide the election. it was fascinating to talk to them. a couple things i learned. one was age was a concern for both men. that came up constantly though the concerns were more acute for biden. they sort of talk about both men as too old, but they really had concerns, fairly or unfairly, of biden's ability to do the job, even those who planned to vote for him and then it really broke down. it was fascinating. the people who didn't like biden or had concerns, they were really beyond the age, it was policy and mainly mentioned to me the economy, how they personally feel that it hasn't gotten better and the israel/gaza war, and for trump and it really, this may not surprise you. it wasn't about policy at all. it was about personality. some of them thought he had done a fine job as president but they didn't like how boorish or crassy he was or the tweets or who he was as a person so really different reasons. they don't like these two guys, but at the end of the day they don't like these two guys and they are sort of desperately trying to figure out what they are going to do in november. >> ashley, from you just giving us that snapshot of what you got got on both candidates, would you think it wise that the biden people give more emphasis on how the economy was under donald trump because we do have four years to look at. he was president, and he did unploinlt went way up under his mismanagement of the covid-19 crisis and they are not emphasizing that enough, and do you think in terms of trump, if he becomes more reserved and measured in his public appearance works that help his campaign since that seems to be his personality and his kind of over-the-top type of behavior? teams to be what voters are concerned about. >> i'll answer your second question first because that's the easier one and the answer is yes, absolutely. if donald trump became untrump-like, that would absolutely help him with these voters. the question is that sort of core to who he is. he can sort of control himself and about, as you said, more reserved for a day, for a couple of days. for a week. he hasn't been able to maintain that in an election cycle until november but if they could wave a magic wand his team would love that, and that would absolutely help him. the biden calculation is a little bit trickier because the economy is very difficult to message on as you point out, right. there's a ton of indicators right now that the economy by a lot of metrics is doing quite well, but it has not trickled down to the way voters feel on interest rates, on grocery prices, even on gas. >> all right. "the washington post"'s ashley parker, thank you very much for your reporting this morning. now to more from my exclusive interview with vice president kamala harris. i asked her about who she thinks donald trump will select as his running mate and what president biden will set out to accomplish in this week's debate. take a listen. in the next couple of weeks is going to be the choice, donald trump's choice for vice presidential running mate. who do you think it's going to be because this is the person you'll face off against in a debate i guess. >> oh, yes, definitely. i don't know who he's going to pick. i try to spend not too much time thinking about how he thinks. >> yeah. >> but, listen, i think it's clear there's a litmus test, and he is going to pick someone who will be more loyal to him than to their country. i think we saw what happened in terms of january 6, and he's certainly not going to pick another mike pence who stands to defend and support the constitution and is more likely to bring in someone who is going to be a rubber stamp, and the bottom line is that are look at the reported short list, and it is clear that the top contenders on that short list either support a national abortion ban or have signed off on a trump abortion ban in their state, so i think the contrast is going to be clear, whoever he chooses. >> the debate is in a couple of days. some democrats are feeling this could be make or break for joe biden. what should he do in the debate, do you think? >> joe biden in this debate will make clear the contrast, you know. of the many issues in our country and in our world that are complex and nuanced, november of 2024 is binary, and when you look at the difference, i would ask people to really imagine what the world will be like on january 20th, 2025. on the one hand you have joe biden who has spent his life and career fighting for the well-being of other people, including health care. on the other hand, you have the former president who spent full time when he was president trying to get rid of the affordable care act which if he is successful as president again would mean over 100 million people would be stripped of health care coverage. you have on the one hand joe biden who under his leadership, bipartisan support for the first meaningful gun safety gun legislation in 30 years, and, on the other hand, former president who when speaking of survivors of horrendous gun violence says get over it and will proudly talk about to the nra are how he did nothing on the issue and i could go on and on. i think the debate is going to make clear the contrast between our president, the current president who works on behalf of the american people, fights for the american people and a former president who pretty much spends full time fighting for himself. >> so let's talk about that contrast. president biden and you have both warned that democracy is at stake in this election. >> yeah. >> that if trump wins a second term, women's rights will continue to be decimated, that international alliances will be frayed. that's to say the least. >> yeah. >> that your work, rebuilding the middle class will be destroyed, that rights for minorities will be rolled back. if the contrast is so obvious, what's going on? why does it poll so closely? why is the race so close? >> these races are always close. it's the election of the president of the united states, and -- and everyone in election for president of the united states will critically examine all of the issues and make a decision, but at the end of the day we're going to win. we're going to win. >> you're confident. >> it's not going to be easy, and we're going to wings, and i will point to -- just look at what happened in the mid-terms, for example. many talked about the red wave. i would call it a red drip. >> yeah. >> if you look at where the american people were in so-called red states and so-called blue states, every time this issue of abortion was on the ballot, the people voted for freedom. that's who the american people are, right? we have our differences, but the american people believe in an integrity of our country and our values which include that we protect and fight for individual freedoms and liberties and so i do believe that the contrast is clear, and in november it will be stark. >> donald trump says he connects with black voters, now especially, because of his felony conviction. >> i got indicted a second time and a third time and a fourth time, and a lot of people said that that's why the black people like me because they have been hurt so badly and discriminated against. >> he also says he's not a racist because he has a lot of black friends. >> yeah. >> your thoughts. >> well, on the first point as connected to the second point. it's insulting. >> yeah. >> it's insulting. for a number of reasons, including he has reduced a whole population of people down to a sum total of what is in his mind who they are, and he's wrong, and he's wrong. >> you'll be hearing a lot more from the vice president on the campaign trail in the days and weeks to come, and also hadley duval and other survivors of abortion bans, survivors of abortion bans, meaning women who did not get the life-saving medication they needed even though it was available, they could not get it and were left in these life-threatening situations so the campaign is going to go in strong on this, especially difference donald trump brags about this very exciting thing that he did with the help of leonard leo, and that's the overturning of roe, two years to the day of the dobbs decision. >> jonathan lemire, curious on your thoughts of what you heard from the vice president and also from mika's special guest. >> first, congrats on the interview. this shows how abortion will be front and center in the race. this cycle is so fast talking about inflation and gaza and for so many american, women and men alike, a right was taken away and they are working and fighting to get it back and working to protect it in some states. since dobbs, abortion rights have been undefeated at the ballot box so this will be front and center thursday night and at the debate and the campaign to come. i think i do think the vice president has been a really good messenger on this issue. trump abortion ban is her language that she's using more and more. we should expect to hear that constantly from the biden campaign between now and november. she did say when mika asked about, look, mika framed the stakes of this race and more or less asked why is it still close? the vice president laughed it off and said it's always close. i don't know if that's actually true but as polarized and electorate as we are. what think do i? the donald trump by many standards is fundamentally unfit to serve of to be president again. he's already been a convicted felon, but yet the race is really close, a margin. error race and how does the biden team address that and take that on and maybe convince the double haters we heard from a moment ago saying, look, come to our side? >> i think the biden team has struggled with this. at the beginning of the year they kind of laughed off democratic anxieties. dismissed it as bed-wetting, the polls were closed and then they realized people were genuinely worried about joe biden's age and that wasn't going away. now what we hear from the biden team don't expect the polls to turn around until august and september but they seem confident about it saying the direction is moving in our favor and it's going to move that way. i'll agree. i'm not sure that it was worth laughing off that the polls were close and i think back to what ashley said about the people, the double haters she spoke to who said if only trump could be less trump in terms of character, then they would be in a strong position because people actually liked his policies. i think that is a struggle for the biden campaign that people look at this economy which is doing well, the american economy is booming by many respects. inflation is coming down, unemployment is low and the stock market is doing well, but they look back at donald trump's economy and say oh, his policies were back during the trump administration, so it's hard for them. i mean, i think the one thing that the vice president said that is right is that it's going to be very close. it's going to be what, 150 people, two taylor swift concerts. >> it seems one of the things they can do, mika. they can actually, you know, punctuate. they are not running against donald trump's issues. it's not that people liked donald trump's issues. fact is that there's a sort of pre-covid a pre-covid "the new york post" gentleman. donald trump's policies, whether you look at abortion and policies that led to the banning of abortion in so many parts of america, deeply unpopular. you look at tax cuts for billionaires and multi-national corporations, the largest tax cuts ever for the richest americans, the richest corporations. those aren't popular. even his -- his extreme positions on immigration not popular with a lot of americans. certainly wasn't during his presidency, so -- but -- so that has to be punctuate the but also, you know, john heilemann, in the past people have said i want to work for you. i can put on a bumper sticker. why are you running, if they start talking about seven, eight policy points, everybody is sleeping. why are you running? what gets you out of bed in the morning? tell it to me in a sentence. ronald reagan's re-election, you know, morning in america. barack obama, hope and change. donald trump, make america great again. it's one thing that seems to be missing from the biden campaign. they have a lot of issues, almost too many issues sfleks actly. >> to be able to marrow it down so you talked to general mally dixon, did you get closer to the main overriding thing that democrats wanted to hear? >> i asked her at the end if she could tell me what the campaign's message was in a succinct way, and she said, i'll quote her here. at the end of the day joe biden is fighting for the american people and donald trump is only in it for himself. joe biden is lowering costs and protecting us and our freedoms and focusing on protecting democracy. creating opportunity for people in this country and there's a lot more to do and hits vision for 2024 is a contrast to the what donald trump is doing in taking care of himself and nobody else. that's a lot of words. if you went back to the top, joe biden is fighting for the american people and donald trump is only in it for himself. that's a message. it's clean. if that was all she said and you reduced it to that, and that is the core of the message they are running on and i'm curious if you did give them the benefit of the doubt and reduced it to that, if you think that's the right message and the reason that i have, it's clean and it's true. i think that the -- what it misses is it sounds -- it kind of portrays trump as if he's a typical selfish republican rich guy and not what they really believe which is that, and what they are trying to get across, is that trump is an existential threat to the future of america. it's not just that he's in it just for himself. >> right. >> there's a consequence that the stakes here are either we keep the america that we've always had or we go down the path towards autocracy, and that trump is going to blow everything up. that's not quite in that. that level of menace is not quite in that message so i wonder what you think because you're the guy who always tells me that the bumper sticker actually matters. >> yeah. you know, i -- i've always been guided by something i read from peggy noonan talking about how reagan would always take the negative and turn it to the positive so instead of saying we can't keep repeating the same mistakes. peggy said reagan would change it to we must think it anew. take the negative and turn it positive. i don't think that fits here, and i agree with peggy, and that's influenced so much of, if i was writing or if i was talking about this sort of thing here, with so much on the line, i think they have to strip it down to don't let them take your freedoms. don't let them take your democracy. don't let them take, you know, your economic future, something along those lines. like, rev, you know, there is so much right now at risk in this election, and there's so many people who are turning a blind eye to t.especially some of the richest billionaires in america, the richest multi-national corporations and their leadership because they love the massive tax cuts. they understand that the largest income redistribution in american history has happened over the past 20, 30 years, expedited by donald trump, and that is from middle class americans from the richest of the rich, not the top 1%, the top 0.01%. >> no doubt about it, and one of the things that comes to mind when i was watching mika's interview with the vice president is i remember when george floyd was killed and then candidate joe biden who had secured just about the nomination called and sailed he wanted to come and see the family in minneapolis before the funeral. he came the day before because he didn't want to come to the funeral and the secret service disrupt people coming in, and i had been on him publicly. he said that he was going to choose a black woman for the supreme court if he was elected. i said what about a black woman on the ticket and he wouldn't commit, but we were signature there privately waiting on family and he asked me, he said what do you think of val demings, and i gave him my pitch on val demings, the congresswoman from florida, a strong black woman. he says what do you think of stacey abrams and i gave him my pitch on her, felt she was great, really profound and then he asked me what do you think about kamala harris and i was really surprised because in one of the debates he went after something in the past and i said she's great. i've known her since she was a d.a. in san francisco and i never ever imagined he would choose kamala harris but he did, so after he did i saw him and i said i surprised you went for kamala harris and she -- you don't even need her for california. he said but i think she's the best for the country and you have a you've got to govern. that's the difference between trump and biden. he sees the bigger picture. this guy not only sees himself, he's willing to break down the democratic principles of this country and return us to somewhere where we fought women, blacks, latinos, everybody, fought not to go to. he does not care if that will give him the self-aggrandizement that he wants. whoever he chooses it won't be under the same principles that joe biden made, and if it leads to an autocracy, fine. >> coming up we'll speak with the ceo whisperers and he knows what american ceos of donald trump and the real reason why donald trump doesn't have the support of corp rall rat america. plus as calls grow for health warnings on social media platforms and bans on smartphones in schools, our next guest will join us on the impact of too much screen time and its effect on children's brains. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. why choose a sleep number smart bed? can it keep me warm when i'm cold? wait, no, i'm always hot. sleep number does that. can i make my side softer? i like my side firmer. sleep number does that. can it help us sleep better and better? please? sleep number does that. 94 percent of smart sleepers report better sleep. shop our lowest prices of the season, with no interest until 2027. sleep number smart beds starting at $999. learn more at sleepnumber.com ( ♪ ♪ ) start your day with nature made. the #1 pharmacist recommended vitamin and supplement brand. 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(kev) ... i guess we're movin'. when we're young, we're told anything is possible... ...but only a few of us go out and prove it. witness the greatness of anna hall on a connection worthy of gold: xfinity mobile. only xfinity gives you the most powerful mobile wifi network, with speeds up to a gig in millions of locations. and right now, xfinity internet customers can buy one unlimited line and get one free for a year. get the fastest connection to paris with xfinity. welcome back to "morning joe." 37 past the hour. a growing number of school districts across country are now considering banning cell phones and social media. this comes after the nation's second largest school district in los angeles voted last week to prohibit students from using cell phones and social media during the day. at the same time, a recent pew survey said 75% of high school teachers said cell phone distraction is a major problem in the classroom. the problem is it's also a major problem outside of the classroom. joining us now is the author of the recent book entitled "the anxious generation, how the great rewiring of childhood is causing an epidemic of mental illness." jonathan, this is a step in the right direction, but i don't think it even begins to address the problem as kids are up all night with their phones. they're completely addicted, and the impact is being seen across the nation. where is this headed, do you think? >> i think in the last year, basically since covid has receded and our kids aren't getting better, the kids are in really bad shape so we're all seeing it now. there's a growing awareness that the phone and basically the phone-based childhood is causing all sorts of developmental problems so i think the surgeon general's request last week that there be warning labels. i think we're turning the corner in recognizing we don't have to accept this. the kid will be on their phone for the rest of their lives, their entire life. no, we don't have to accept that. teachers in particular have been begging us to take the phones out of school. phones are incredible distraction devices so i'm very excited by the speed at which schools and school districts and entire states are moving towards this. >> i think it's headed towards a class action lawsuit like tobacco. >> i really do. >> that could be extreme. >> that's a sign of progress. >> okay. i think this is also not just for kids. i definitely struggle with the distraction of the phone and the bjorklunding of work and family across the country. joe is off his completely except for his ipad while on the show. he's completely off the smartphones. >> yeah. >> and has a flip so he comes up in my phone as joe flip. >> i've been doing it for several years. >> the quality of life chained to a so-called smartphone, iphone, it's just dismal. i spend, you know -- i will send a text and i'll spend the next, you know, half a day with texts flooding in, so, yeah. >> answering 20 others. >> so my kids have my -- my flip phone and that's about it. but, you know, i -- i've done it in part also because of the studies, in the only about anxiety and depression and everything else for kids, but also the way it rewires all of our brains. it's just -- it is just like when i have to work, i have to work and i have to do this and i have to do that and i understand that, but away from work. this rerequires our brain to look at people in restaurants with their families looking at them constantly looking at their phones every 14 seconds. it is madness. >> well, that's right. >> we adults see it. you've seen it. people go off for at least three or four weeks find benefit. now you say it's rewiring our brains. now, as adults we went through puberty in a normal childhood. we had a lot of face-to-face contact. we had adventures and free play and then the millenials didn't get smartphones until they were in college or later sore for adults the phone-based life is shredding our attention, makes us feel overwhelmed but it's not rewiring our brains in a major way but let's look at a 10-year-old. a 10-year-old is about to go into a puberty. a 10-year-old is about experience the most massive brain rewiring since the first year of life, and that's going to be guided by the inputs coming through the eyes and ears, and this is roughly the age at which we give our kids a phone, they gets instagram and tiktok and now they will massive stimulation of a very strange variety, some of which will encourage eating disorders, suicide, anxiety, so i think the evidence for adolescents is much, much greater that, yeah, it's rewiring the way their brains are developing in this really critical sensitive period of puberty. that's my main point. we have to protect puberty. we've go the to get all of this stuff out of middle school and delay social media until at least age 16. that should be the minimum. >> jonathan, we know that's particularly bad for girls and had death mental effects on girls and their mental health as well. you sound a little optimistic when you look at the school districts, and i'm looking at the states have done it, new york, illinois and california. there's not a political homogeneity. we're getting to a stage as a society that we're doing the things that we know we need to do so sort of protect ourselves from this overload of information. >> mm-hmm. that's right. i am wildly optimistic that we're going to roll this back, and the reason is because i've spent a lot of my life trying to advocate for various kinds of change and working on issues about democracy. those are really hard, and they are always partisan issues and i don't know how we solve those. this issue, that our kids are addicted, our kids are -- their lives are governed by a few giant companies. we all see it. parents all over the world see it. legislators, most of them have kids, so we're seeing a wave of legislation, not just in the u.s. but in europe and australia and new zealand and most exciting to me is that parents are coming together everywhere around the world, especially in the u.s., coming together to say we have to solve this collectively. that's the main thing i advocate in my book, that this is a collective action problem. none of us wants to be the parent that says to our kid you are the only one who doesn't have a phone in social media. you must be alone but if we do it together. if we all delay our kids with smartphones to 14 and delay social media to 16, we can get our kids most of the way through puberty before we turn on garbage hose. >> sounds like a great plan. author and psychologist jonathan hite, thank you. the book is titled "the anxious generation, how the great rewiring of childhood is caution an epidemic." coming up, a look at front pages across the country including abortion care. back more with more on "morning joe." tion care. back more with more on "morning joe. then, you ate so many of the impossible that we completely ran out. and now... ♪♪ 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"the hartford current" is highlighting growing concerns over the consequences of fake news ahead of november's election. connecticut officials worry that disinformation and ai on social media can deceive voters and undermine democracy. this all comes ahead -- after the head of the senate intelligence committee said the u.s. may be less prepared for election threats than even four years ago. "the philadelphia enquirer" out of state drivers. the number of people from out of state who had procedure rose nearly 41% in 2022. the dramatic rises was driven by patients from ohio, which restricted access after the supreme court overturned federal abortion protections two years ago. the atlanta journal constitution reports on the lack of bird flu testing being done across the u.s. despite the world health organization calling the virus a public health concern to its potential pandemic. the u.s. has only tested about 45 people nationwide. experts say with so few tests run, it's impossible to know for certain just how many people have actually been infected. and "the boston globe" is taking a look at an effort in one of massachusetts city to fund local journalism using taxpayer money. the cambridge city council is weighing a proposal to provide $100,000 in city tax funds each year for local news. advocates say the effort serves to keep residents informed of decisions that impact their neighborhoods while also sustaining local journalism. if passed t would mark the first time a city in the united states has funded local news. we all need more local news and it's dying at the moment. up next, we'll preview a high stakes meeting in washington today between israel's defense chief and the biden administration. that's straight ahead on "morning joe." nistration that's straight ahead on "morning joe." so i hired body doubles. indoorsy tina loves a deluxe suite. ooh! booking.com booking.yeah ♪ limu emu... ♪ and doug. 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"morning joe" telling you if you're an electric lifeboat out there, please, watch for electrical currents and sharks. "morning joe" coming right back. . voices of people with cidp: cidp disrupts. cidp derails. let's be honest... all: cidp sucks! voices of people with cidp: but living with cidp doesn't have to. when you sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com, you'll find inspiration in real patient stories, helpful tips, reliable information, and more. cidp can be tough. but finding hope just got a little easier. sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com. all: be heard. be hopeful. be you. (vo) in two seconds, eric will realize sign up at shiningthroughcidp.com. they're gonna need more space... (man) gotta sell the house. (vo) oh...open houses. or, skip the hassles and sell directly to opendoor. (man) wow. (vo) when life's doors open, we'll handle the house. you know what it is? no water in your faucets. you ever try guy bying a new home and they have restricters in tlp you want to wash your hair or your hands, you turn on the water and it goes drip, drip, drip. the soap, you can't get it off your hands. so you keep it running for ten times longer. the worst is your hair. i have this beautiful luxurious hair. i like it to come out extremely try because it seems to be thicker that way. and i lather up. then you turn on this crazy shower and the thing drip, drip. i'm going to be here for 45 minutes. they put restricters. and they put them on in places like here where there's so many water you don't know what to do with it. it rains a lot in certain places. i opened it up and they closed it gep. washing machines, to wash your dishes, there's a problem. they don't want the you to have any water. they want no water. >> and you were just listening to former president trump and we're going to talk about some of of the things he was discussing there. >> they had to cut away from the washing machine thing. >> what do you talk about? what's the analysis of drip, drip, drip, fox news cut away from donald trump's speech rally in philadelphia on saturday as he droned on about low water pressures in homes. >> washing machines, sharks. >> how he likes a lot of lather. imagine if joe biden did this. it would be 24-hour coverage of joe biden losing it. but this, they just dpo to break. we'll show you more of donald trump's comments at two events over the weekend. it comes as we are just days away from the first meeting between trump and president biden in more than three and a half years. we'll have the latest on debate preps and strategies for both sides. alsoed to is two years since the supreme court's decision on dobbs ending federal protections for abortion care. to mark this day, i spoke exclusively with vice president kamala harris and abortion rights advocate hadley duval, whose personal story helped democratic governor beshear win reelection in kentucky last year. we'll bring you more on that conversation just ahead exclusive here on "morning joe." good morning, welcome. it's monday, june 24th. with us we have jonathan lemire. the president of the national action network and host of msnbc'ses politics nation ref reverend al sharpton. katty kay and nbc news analyst john heilemann. he's a partner and chief political columnist at puck. it's good to have you with us. >> what a line up. wow. i'm looking at the red sox line up right now. so john heilemann, you read the papers this week. >> front to back, looks like he's off his rocker. it's crazy. it's crazy the things he says. it's crazy what people stand there and i plaud for. here, they just look confused and fox news had to cut away. i got nothing here. i got nothing. >> when fox news thinks there's too much lather going on with donald trump and too much lather. he likes a lather. that's how you know that he's jumped -- you mentioned sharks. i don't think he talked about sharks at this event, but forically, he jumped the shark. i think that's right. i wouldn't make any long-range bets on the fact that they have given up doctoring video or other kinds of deep fake misinformation. i think we're going to see a lot of that going forward. but we do seem to be in this moment with the debate this close at hand, i do think trump it feral. he probably personally thinks he is going to go to this debate on thursday and get the better of president biden. i do think there are people in trump's orbit who recognize trying to compare the two of them on whose team is more coherent, more presidential, that's a compare and contrast that doesn't cleanly working to donald trump's advantage. they seem to be letting off the gas on that, at least this week. there's a tense zens that they want to lay off that comparison. >> requiring a drug test is a low bar. former president trump spoke at two events on saturday. a christian conference in washington and then a rally in philadelphia. and here are more notable remarks. >> the whole things was a they wanted roe v. wade back in the states where the people could vote and make their decisions. it's now up to the will of the people in each state. some states will be more conservative. other states will be more liberal. it's happening now. you see the votes taking place. it's the way every legal scholar and just about all the democrats and all republicans and liberals wanted it that way. we did something that was amazing. christians go to church, but they don't vote that much. the power you have if you would vote. it wouldn't be -- you have to get out and vote. just this time. i don't care care in four years, you don't are to vote. in four years, don't vote. i don't care. but we'll have it all straightened out. >> my stupid people. when i wanted to refute it, they said, sir, don't dignify it with a refuttal. what word would that be? they don't know either. >> we have to get out there. we have to vote. we have to make sure everything is on host. you keep your eyes open. you're the police in a way. you can police your vote. a lot of people don't know that. just make sure your vote counts. we have to make sure it counts. >> i told dana white. here's what we're going to do these are tough cookies coming into our country. >> i said, dana, i have an idea for you to make a lot of money. you're going to go and start a new migrant fight league. only migrants. and then at the end of the year, thement champion migrant is going to fight your champion. and i hate to tell you, i think the migrant might win. that's how tough they are. >> we save the world from those sports. now they decide to take the names. i call it a transition like transitioning. they have a transition name before they name it. the reverend al sharpton, fort al sharpton. now you can just imagine, but this is a transition. they have done a couple transitions. these people are sick. >> they are sick. no, they don't like losers. they don't like losers, donald. i know you like losers. you like losing. you have lost seven years in a row. i don't know if you know, but because of you, your party lost in 2017. your party lost in 2018. your party lost in 2019. your party lost in 2020. your party lost in 2021. your party lost in 2022. your party lost in 2023. if the past is prologue, your party is going to lose in 2024. so there are a lot of people in the south, we don't really like naming forts after losers. that's not transitioning. we want to name forts after american patriots who win wars. donald, maybe you should see the beginning of "patton" and says americans don't want and won't abide losers. they want winners. so yeah, we don't want some loserer who tried to overthrow the federal government so slavery could continue another 100 years or so. we like winners. i say that as a southerner. a little worried about alabama crimson tide. if he's not, they will fire him. because that's how we think in the south. that's how we think in america. so yeah, you want to name forts after losers. after confederate soldiers, confederate generals that rebelled against the united states of america. i'll take a fort sharpton. that sounds nice. it sounds nice. about a military moving towards a more perfect union and not stuck in its slave-holding pass. like poor donald wants us to be stuck in the mid-1800s. >> i think that one of the things that comes to mind is he's playing to a crowd that clearly is against some of the things that i grew up with civil rights and other things. the fact of the matter is he's also revealing hills. most military bases are named after people who served in the military. and the the one thing that he and i have in common is neither one of us served in the military. so you'd think after being president four years he would know by now what military bases are for. he's also showing to say we should not take military generals or military people off of naming our military bases. it's something that taxpayers of all races are paying for. let's remember when we had the marches of blacks and jews together in charlottesville for the removal of robert e. lee, the confederate general statute. people were killed. one lady was killed. it was trump that said there were fine people on both sides. so he reminds us of his embrace of that. and to take it a step further, the statements he made over the weekend, he now is openly saying that women's rights ought to be done by states rights. the whole civil rights movement was to get away from states rights and have the federal government protect our civil rights. now he's saying women's rights should be dealt with state by state, which was exactly the template of slavery. >> my exclusive interview with kamala harris and reproductive rights advocate hadley duval. what they had to say about the abortion impact ahead of the election. 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put uc and crohn's in check ...and keep them there with rinvoq. ask your gastroenterologist about rinvoq and learn how abbvie can help you save. here's what donald trump says about your freedom. after 50 years of failure with nobody coming even close, i was able the to kill roe v. wade. three years ago the supreme court justices that trump hand picked helped overturn roe v. wade. >> never before has the court granlted and taken away a widely reognized constitutional right. >> new laws banning abortion are taking effect. >> decades of progress shated because the last guy got three years in the white house. row know what happens if he the gets another four? it's just the beginning. they are going to try to ban the right to choose nationwide they are coming for ivf and birth control next. send me back the white house and i'll fight like hell. and protect american freedom. >> that was an exclusivive first look at the new message of the two-year anniversary of the fall of roe. to mark this day, i sat down for an exclusive interview with vice president kamala harris, who has been the administration's leading voice on this issue. as well as a young woman by the name of hadley duval. hadley, as you may recall, was the subject of a powerful campaign ad last year from kentucky's democratic governor andy beshear featuring her story as a sexual abuse survivor. >> i was raped but my stepfather after years of sexual abuse. i was 12. anyone who believes there should be no exceptions for rape and incest could never understand what it's like to stand in my shoes. this is to you, daniel cameron. to tell a 12-year-old girl she must have the baby of her stepfather who raped her is unthinkable. i'm speaking out because women and girls need to have options. daniel cameron would give us none. >> so that ad is credited with playing a role in governor beshear winning reelection and one of the mosts conservative states in the country. now hadley is speaking out on behalf of the biden campaign in defense of abortion rights. here is our discussion. >> this is your first national media interview. given what's at stake today, can you tell people what you want them to take away from, to know about your personal and deeply painful story and why it's so relevant to women today. >> women today, if they are walking in the shoes that i was in, which was pregnancy from rape, then they don't have any option in a lot of states. they are at risk for having no options after the election. that's very terrifying. still i will forever be that little girl. that's who i do this for. knowing i was in that position and the only thing that allowed me to hold on to hope were the words, you have options. those are the first things i heard after i looked at a positive pregnant test at 12 years old. >> you were abused by your stepfather. >> yes. >> it took awhile to tell your mom about this. this was your abuser was her husband. i'm curious how you did it. and i'm thinking this question is for young girls out there who maybe in a similar situation. >> when i was younger, it took a lot of planning. i would sit and say, okay, the next time i will tell. or if this happens, i will tell. or i would always have a reason and waut for that push. it could come around and i would get scared. my mom is a recovering addict,s so when i was young, she went away to inpatient rehab. and i knew what that looks like. she was home. she was sober. when i threatened to tell, he would say you'll risk your the mom's sobriety. so that really stuck with me. it always made me just want to keep the peace because my family,s it was the family i had been hoping for and praying for for so long. but then i was realizing that i didn't have peace and that seemed to be most important. so honestly, just going into high school and knowing that there were a lot of milestones that not only me by mutt sibling was about to accomplish, and i just didn't feel like we had to live in a secret anymore. so i text my mom from school. i said don't let me back out of what i need to tell you tonight she started asking some questions and came and picked me up from school. and i told her. i couldn't even look at her. i said i adopt know how to say this it to you. i'm just going to blurt it out. i have been sexually abused firefighter ten years. and immediately, she was like, okay, we have to figure something out. you're going to go stay with a friend. my mom was in cosmetology school and had no income. >> now you're speaking out. because a trump win would mean what for little girls in the situation you were in? >> it would mean the unimaginable. it would mean they have no options. not even women and girls, but women with nonviable pregnancies. wanted pregnancies that are not viable that are killing these women, it would be no traveling to another state. it will be options based on where you live. it would just be one rule for everybody and that would be no abortions. and that is a very, very dangerous world for women, not only young girls, but all women. >> madame vice president, you're here with hadley in part because she's amazing and also because her story resinates with you deeply. you have been close to similar stories in your own life, maybe even have set the path of your career. prosecuting sexual violence cases. can you tell us about that. >> when i was in school, i learned that my best friend was being molested by her stepfather. and when i learned about it, i said to her, you have to come live with us. i called mutt mother. she said of course, she has to come stay with us, and she did. so at a young age, i decided i wanted to do the work that was about protecting women and children. and i became a prosecutor. and i specialized in violence cases. and the fact that after the dobbs decision came down that laws have been proposed and passed that as hadley has said makes no exceptions even for rape and incest, think about what these extremists are saying to a survivor of a crime of violence to their body, a violation of their body. to say to that survivor, and you have no right or authority to make a decision about what happens to your body next. that's immoral. that's immoral. and again, i say all of that to say that hadley, you are doing such important work to be a voice. because i'll also mention that the majority of these cases don't get reported. and then in some states, they have passed a law that says if a woom or a girl report it is to the police, then they might be for an abortion. well, a lot of survivors don't report it to the police because of fear of retribution that they fear will be even worse than what they are enduring. >> hadley miscarried. if she had needed care for that today, depending on where you live, you may not get it. it's been two years now since roe was overturned. and now we're dealing with the raw reality of that, which is women bleeding out in parking lots, on bathroom floors, i'm curious what your thoughts were when roe was overturned. and now what we do with the cases before us like idaho. if the supreme court goes with the state, are women going to be able to get abortion cares in erss in idaho? >> first of all, i say let's really be clear about how we got here. because the former president hand selected three members of the united states supreme court with the intention that they would undo the protections of roe v. wade. and they did exactly as he intended. and in state after state, we are seeing trump abortion bans. incluing states that a six-week abortion ban, which tells you that these legislators say how a woman's body works or they don't care and that most women don't even know they are pregnant in six weeks. and to your point, coexisting issues here that are extremely important, one is the notion that the highest court in our land just took a fundamental right that had been recognized from the people of america, from the women of america to make decisions about their own body. the notion of it all that in this year of our lord, 2024, the highest court in the united states of america will take such a fundamental freedom from its people, and understanding that this is not just a matter that is for debate and discussion and intellectual conversation. the real harm that has occurred every day in america since that case was decided and these laws are being passed, to your point, we know the stories about women seeking care because they are going through a miscarriage and being turned away by an emergency room because the physicians there are afraid they are going to be put in jail in a state. they provide prison for life for a health care provider doing their job. and i don't think that -- i think when you look at this issue most people agree you don't have to abandon your faith. you don't have to abandon your faith. the government should not be telling women what to do with their bodies. if they choose, they will consult with their priest, their pastor, their rabbi, but not the government telling women what to do. >> what is at stake in this election? >> so much. if you have a woman in your life that means something to you, her life is at stake if does not matter if she is 12, 9, 34, if there's a woman who is in the reproductive age, then her life is at stake during this election. it does not matter if you have never voted democrat in your life. it's get off your high horse because women don't get to choose a whole lot. you at least can choose who you can vote for. and there is a lot of things that need to be worked on. we can't get it all done. at the very least, we could get out of women's business when it involves their health care. and i have always said i'm pro minding your own business. live your religion. live it loudly. but don't expect your religion to make the laws. your religion should be lived through and through. however you cake up, however you want to live your religion, it shouldn't be forced on anybody else. it shouldn't determine everybody's outcome. i don't believe that my god that i worship and that i have learned about all my life would have ever wished something like that upon me. >> coming up, we'll have more from my, collusive interview straight ahead. plus what republicans strategists is saying about donald trump's slipping poll numbers and what it could mean for the election. that's ahead on "morning joe." we're back in a moment. orning j" we're back in a moment i'm andrea, founder of a boutique handbag brand - andi - and this is why i switched to shopify. it's the challenges that we don't expect, like a site going down or the checkout wouldn't work. what's nice about shopify is when i'm with my family, when i'm taking time off, knowing that i have a site up and running and our business is moving forward because we have a platform that we can rely on. that is gold to us. start your free trial at shopify today. while i am a paid actor, and this is not a real company, there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. upwork is half the cost of our old recruiter and they have top-tier talent and everything from pr to project management because this is how we work now. smile! you found it. the feeling of finding psoriasis can't filter out the real you. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. hi, i'm tali sand i lost 85. pounds on golo. following golo and taking release i was able to lose weight gradually and keep it off. i wish i started sooner. don't wait go straight to golo.com. former adviser to george w. bush republican karl rove is saying trump's current slump in the polls may not just be part like a blip, but part of a longer trend. on fox news on saturday, rove broke down why he thinks this is the case. >> there's been a tremendous send the may 30th guilty verdict in the new york case. so biden has had numbers that have been moving up a little bit under women and seniors he's still underperforming among women. trump is doing well. but you're right, absolutely, the movement is among independents and they have moved in recent polls roughly 9 points towards biden. 21% of independents in a survey shortly after the conviction said that they would be less likely to vote for donald trump as a result of the conviction. >> in close elections where michigan, pennsylvania, it's going to be decided under a point, that sort of fluctuation voting matters. the one thing karl rove did not bring up that donald trump will tell you is he has the joan rivers vote locked away. just like he has in the past. he's at least got that on the side. but independents have broken away. and again, we hear it every four years. donald trump is going to get 20% of the black vote, 25% of the black vote. it just doesn't happen. >> as i will begin by saying in my usual song here, margin of error race is going to be close. it's going to be that way through all the way. but the same way we talk about any individual poll doesn't matter, but trend lines matter, i sat down with them last week to talk about the numbers. you look at the fact that trump's basically in this year the peak lead in the polling averages was all the its peak in january. it was about 4 points. last week, within the way inside the margin of error, biden moved ahead by a trivial number. but it's a 4-point over the course. it's not just the last month i would say. karl rove knows these numbers, but not just the last month. it's the six month gradual trend line that's heading in joe biden's direction. to your point, closing a 4-point gap over 6 months in a race that's a margin of error race is meaningful. and i asked about whether they are seeing those same numbers in the battleground states and whether the verdict seems to be playing a part in it, and her answer is yes. in the battlegrounds, they are seeing on the margins, small, but meaningful, appreciable, measurable, inching towards joe biden in a consistent way across the trend lines and the verdict seems to have made a difference to that. again, we're so far inside the margin of error that you couldn't be more inside it, but it's meaningful. that's what karl is picking up on that clip. both sides know it the reason it explains part of why the pressure on trump is mounting around this debate as much as it is on biden. it's high on both of them. >> coming up, we'll be joined by the president of planned parenthood on the second anniversary of the supreme court overturning the constitutional right to an abortion. that important conversation is ahead on "morning joe." is ahead on "morning joe. sure, i'm a paid actor, and this is not a real company, but there is no way to fake how upwork can help your business. search talent all over the world with over 10,000 skills you may not have in house. more than 30% of the fortune 500 use upwork because this is how we work now. oooh! i can't wait for this family getaway! shingles doesn't care. shingles is a painful, blistering rash that can last for weeks. ahhh, there's nothing like a day out with friends. that's nice, but 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four protesters that have been handcuffed. >> poor scottie scheffler. he's trying to golf and there are always cops all around this guy. it was a chaotic scene in connecticut after protesters stormed the 18th green at the travelers championship. they came on to the course right as the tournament's leaders were getting rinse reddy to finish the final hole of regulation. they left red and white residue on the green, wore white t-shirts. each protester is facing criminal mischief charges and were released after posting bond. as for the tournament, scottie scheffler avoided police officer s to g out and play. and tom kim also into sudden death playoff hole with scheffler hits his approach shot within 11 feet. while scheffler had a victory. the most in one season on the pga since tiger woods did it in 2009. let's bring in those from our media. pablo, scheffler, cops, explain. >> it doesn't get -- scottie scheffler was a guy that nobody could recognize facially before he had that interaction with the cops in louisville. we talked about this. the cop claimed he had pants beyond repair, damage beyond repair. $80. we saw footage of that. that was the major. it doesn't ever get boring for scottie scheffler. because this circumstance here, i'm not here to tell somebody that if you believe with conviction that the planet is dieing and you need to do something about it, this is not worth it. i get the motive. i just also see this as a sports fan or even a golfer, which i am not, if i'm scottie scheffler, i am legitimate concerned someone is spraying powder around me and running past police officers. it feels menacing in ways that are maybe intentional but also just generally not a great idea, i would say, when it comes to what could have happened here. tus just one of those things where i'm not even sure there's effectiveness here upside for the cause you brought, even if you believe in it, it will result in more security protocols, which is bad for everybody who attends sporting events all around america. >> and am i just ignorant or some reason you'd dpo after a golf tournament? why the golf tournament? >> because you use a lot of stuff on the grass and it's very bad for the planet. >> maybe. regardless, i never understood things like that really helping with the cause. helping with the undecideds. >> i don't think so in this case. we are now i think doing a better job of clarifying what their mission was even than they were at the time. so maybe that's part of it also. they blamed them. at some point, i'm just glad no one got really hurt because that's always what i think about in a post 9/11 america. i'm just glad no one got seriously hurt. pants included. >> coming up, one of our nest gulf of mexicos is taing a look at the role barack is playing in the 2024 election and the former president's efforts to save his and joe biden's legacy from donald trump. 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about it with you. >> i love this. this is my favorite segment of the day. this is a look at some of the revealing moments from the brand-new prod cast, the jamie kern lima show. in 2008, jamie founded it cosmetics, my fave, from her living room. selling the company only eight years later for over a billion dollars. that's not all. she has also written two "new york times" best selling books and she's become one of the foremost voices on empowering women to pursue their dreams and believe in themselves. and jamie joins us now. i'm so excited to welcome you to "morning joe." i love my it cosmetics. i do my makeup myself. like you as a news anchor, tv person, i do my makeup myself, it was so hard to find the right balance for myself, i love it, the foundation with spf, i know you have done way more than it, but that itself was a remarkably successful venture you started out in your living room, and i just, everything you do, jamie, is so know your value. you initially did not think you were worthy of your success. you needed to know your value. you wrote a book, worthy, knowing your value. and you emphasize how important it is to establish relationships about who you are, authenticity and vulnerability being the key to success. i love it. and now, the podcast. tell us about it. >> yes, thank you so much for having me. by the way y have a signed copy for you here in studio, mika. i'm just grateful to be here. i'm passionate about this, fired up, and just this is an issue really that affects all of us. why i'm watching the jamie kern lima show is whether you're a man or a woman, we cannot outsucceed our level of self worth, and a lot of us work really hard to build confidence, but self worth is different. our self worth becomes our ceiling. i'm really excited to launch the show. literally launching tonight at midnight, so i'm really honored to be here sharing it with you. right now, you would know this from your incredible work, mika, that 75% of women deal with impostor syndrome as they're going for their goals. 73% of men feel inadequate and not enough. this is why we're having conversations on the jamie kern lima show about oprah is the first guest, which i feel so blessed and grayful for. we're having these deep conversations i feel like people had never had before, how did you learn to believe you're worthy of your success? right now for everyone listening to us, you might be crushing it in your career or doing -- happy in your relationship, but at the end of the day, we still will hit a ceiling as to our level of self worth because we don't become what we want in life. we actually become what we believe we're worthy of. so we're going deep on the show of how do you learn to truly believe you're worthy of, you know, of building the business of hitting a new level in your life, of a healthy loving relationship, of owning your seat at the table. >> yes. >> or in your goals and dreams. thank you so much for having me on. it's an honor. >> i have to get you on a know your value stage. you have this down. i love it. what did oprah share? can you preview? your prod cast drops tonight. >> this was her first ever three-hour sitdown. we broke it into two parts. yeah, and i asked her, here's the thing, i think we're all in this together. thank you for what you shared. i would be honored to do any of that with you. and i asked her, why did you do the show at the end of the three-hour interview? she said i felt it was divinely ordered. she shared some things that literally had me in tears. we talk about everything from weight to worthiness to how do you actually step into the dream and the calling on your life. because a lot of us are like, what's my purpose. then once we feel we get clear in our purpose, how do you believe you're worthy enough to step into it? so she shares life lessons i have never heard share before, which i am so excited and honored and grateful to share the show with everybody. because it's really, you know, i feel -- i feel in alignment with my assignment. i feel like we're all in this together. >> i like that. >> yeah, just building our self worth and believing things are possible for our lives. >> so many pubs coming to mind. first of all, you have it, jamie. you have got it. and i think this is going to be amazing. but also, for me, at 57 years old, because of it cosmetics, i'm doing okay here. but we do have a much longer runway in our lives than we ever could have imagined. when you were -- i think you were working as a waitress at one point in your life starting out. you're in your 40s at this point. did you ever imagine your career being like this in your 40s, and your career after 50, and your career after 60, did this ever, like, come to your thoughts at all, jamie? >> i remember the days i was working as a denny's waitress, and i had this feeling, and maybe some people listening can relate to this, i had this feeling, and by the way, i loved my job as a waitress. and i also had these dreams inside of me, but at that point, my self doubt was so loud, i didn't think i was qualified. i didn't think i had what it takes. i think people like me who come from where i come from don't have these big dreams happen to them. that's why i'm so passionate about this. had i not learned to really put in the work, and i have been obsessed with this for years, how do you build self worth. when you become what you believe you're worthy of, you can go out and get all the skills. you can get all the knowledge, go to the right school, do all that, but if deep down inside you don't believe you're worthy of your dreams they will not happen. for me, it's been a journey because i remember the days waitressing, i literally was probably this close to doubting myself out of my destiny, and i think all of us have this yearning deep down inside when we know we're here to serve or share our art with the world or look at some of the amazing work you're doing, getting the forbes 50 over 50, like, some of the work you're doing is just shifting the entire world. and you're going for it. and why i'm so passionate is right now i think about every person just watching you and me right now, who knows they want to go for it, but doesn't quite believe they're worthy of it, and going for it might mean taking dance lessons again, might mean registering the business, it might mean telling the person you want to be more than just friends. it might mean getting on the dating app right now tonight in your 70s. it could be any of that. so that's why i'm so passionate about this, and yeah. it's been a journey. >> i always tell women if you don't put yourself out there, you never know what could happen. and you're a perfect example of that. you're going to help so many women. i'm so glad to meet you. the first episode of the jamie kern lima show featuring an interview with oprah winfrey drops tonight at midnight on youtube and all major podcast platforms, entrepreneur and host jamie kern lima, thank you so much. let's stay in touch. >> yes, and i would love to have you on the show as well, if you would love to. thank you so much. >> i'm in. name the time. yes. jamie, thank you so much. all right, up next, we dig into debate preps for president biden and donald trump, including who is playing the role of the former president for the biden campaign. plus, the so-called ceo whisperer, jeffrey sonnenfeld joins us with insight on why business leaders are not backing trump. keep it right here on "morning joe." t right here on "morning joe. u. so go ahead, live unfiltered with the one and only sotyktu, a once-daily pill for moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, and the chance at clear or almost clear skin. it's like the feeling of finding you're so ready for your close-up. or finding you don't have to hide your skin just your background. once-daily sotyktu was proven better, getting more people clearer skin than the leading pill. don't take if you're allergic to sotyktu; serious reactions can occur. sotyktu can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. serious infections, cancers including lymphoma, muscle problems, and changes in certain labs have occurred. tell your doctor if you have an infection, liver or kidney problems, high triglycerides, or had a vaccine or plan to. sotyktu is a tyk2 inhibitor. tyk2 is part of the jak family. it's not known if sotyktu has the same risks as jak inhibitors. find what plaque psoriasis has been hiding. there's only one sotyktu, so ask for it by name. so clearly you. sotyktu. unfortunately, as you can imagine, i can't actually speak to debate preparations. that wouldn't be appropriate for me to talk about. i have done debate preps before and played other roles like that. that's, again, part of the process. people coming together to hear candidates debate with each other, put themselves before the american public, lay their views out. their competing visions out, and i thought it was a high privilege to have an opportunity in 2020 to participate. i know that sounds a bit evasive but i'm afraid that's the constraint i'm operating under. >> a bit evasive? come on. >> i would be disappointed if you weren't. lawyer and former white house counsel bob bauer speaking with us last week on "morning joe." since then, nbc news has confirmed he was hinting at that he is reprising his role of playing donald trump in president biden's debate preps. >> did he get roided out? >> no, i don't know. maybe it took some adderall roar something. but it's trump who wants biden checked out for drug abuse. hello. >> he says, it's either projection or confession. we still have jonathan and reverend al sharpton with us. 9:00 on the east coast, 6:00. >> time to wake up on the west coast. it's a beautiful day. i assume it's a beautiful day. the first debate between president biden and former president trump is now just three days away. president biden spent his weekend prepping at camp david, while donald trump was out on the campaign trail. nbc news senior white house correspondent kelly o'donnell has the very latest. >> reporter: debate week is here. >> will anybody be watching the debate on thursday night? >> reporter: president biden in extended prep sessions at camp david. >> mr. president, how is debate prep going? >> reporter: this much anticipated presidential showdown could be a pivotal event that shakes up a consistently tight race. the biden campaign out with a new memo, predicting two distinct visions for the future on stage in atlanta. announcing 300 debate night watch parties and 1600 volunteer events across battleground states. defining the choice and their opponent. >> donald trump is a convicted felon. and the american people have to sit in that for a second. the person who wants to be president has to go sit with his probation officer before he actually goes to the debate, and so it is just a fact. >> reporter: former president trump teasing that he has already made the big choice on a running mate. >> have you decided on a vice president? >> in my mind, yeah. >> do they know? >> nobody knows. >> reporter: north dakota governor doug burgum is on the vp short list. >> he has a lot of great choices and the whole country maybe knows my background, which is success in business and success in the executive branch as governing. >> reporter: today is the second anniversary of the dobbs decision that ended a national right to abortion. the first lady campaigning sunday arguing that reproductive rights will be decisive. >> women put joe biden in the white house, and women are going to keep him there. >> all right, joining us now, nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard. vaughn -- vaughn, joe is interrupting me. >> i'm not. i'm not. i'm just -- i want to underline the fact. i'm exuberant. i'm bursting with joy. perhaps one of my greatest flaws. >> it is, yes. >> but vaughn, so we have doug burgum. who is on the short list. marco rubio was on the short list. and we have jd vance, who is on the short list. hey, alex, really quickly, find out something bad burgum said about donald trump and i'll talk really slowly. we have with jd vance, while he was wearing his little silicon valley, i love san francisco, i love tech people, when he's going through that phase in his life, jd vance said that actually donald trump was a terrible person, and he actually said that as a christian, he could not vote for him because of his belief in jesus christ, he also said that all other christians should also stay away from voting for donald trump. donald trump's only gotten more trumpish since he said that. and now jd vance wants to be on the short list. then of course, you have marco rubio, my god, the things -- >> back flips. pretzel twists. this guy should be in the olympics. >> the things, though, that he said about donald trump is just absolutely crazy. like, so absolutely critical of him. so it's very interesting that marco -- >> lil' marco. >> somebody that donald trump would call -- >> would he keep his name? >> donald trump called lil' marco. all this crazy stuff that he did. but now, he wants to be donald trump's vice president. and you know, alex, because my emails are not reloading the way they should, i don't have what you have sent me. could you tell us, alex, what burgum said about donald trump. >> a taste. >> this is an interview a year ago on "meet the press." he was asked by chuck todd then if he would ever do business with donald trump. and he said i don't think so. asked why, he said i think it's important you're judged by the company you keep. just look at his business track records is what i would say. >> that may be the best one. that may be the best one, vaughn. i think it's important that you are judged by the company you keep. so here's a guy who said he wasn't going to ever do business with donald trump. >> and now -- >> wants to be his vice president. break it down for us, vaughn hillyard. >> well, the north dakota governor, number one, is not running for re-election. as of this november, he will no longer have a political job. i cannot make that direct connection as to why somebody would change their tenor over the course of one year and whether wanting to be vice president would be that. but doug burgum perhaps is in a stiff competition with jd vance in terms of the number of press hits and interviews on right wing outlets they have been trying to do over the last two months. doug burgum traveled to new york, to michigan with him. he's been essentially all over, and when you look at the story of mike pence, right, the question that i asked mike pence in the summer of 2016, and his hometown of columbus, indiana, was will you be willing to differ and disagree with donald trump? not only on the campaign trail but as vice president? he continually came back to the answer that he would be willing to draw a contrast with hillary clinton. and ultimately five years into his time with donald trump, that answer was ultimately given on january 6th. but for each of these men, you know, i think that's a question that donald trump is going to be asked because he's lived through this once. he's spoken about the disloyalty of mike pence in his mind. the question for each of these men is just how far are they willing to go. when you talk about jd vance, donald trump endorsed him and he was able to win a senate seat largely because of donald trump. now, the payback is an attempt to try to get back in the vp role. >> vaughn, inherently, we know how far these men are willing to go. they're willing to take a job where the last guy who had it nearly got killed at trump's behest. we could question perhaps their judgment as to why they would want this post, but let's talk about what trump actually does want. burgum said this weekend, it doesn't matter who trump picks as his vp. he can win anyway. there's a hibit of truth. can this person step in to do the job if the president no longer can, but what is the calculation? take us behind the curtain. is there any thought process between him and the senior staff as to what they're looking for? >> burgum also added donald trump doesn't even need a vice presidential candidate. this is for donald trump, going to be the moment of picking who is loyal. we keep coming back to that. they have tried to offer up the campaign has, several different attributes they're looking for in somebody. there was a suggestion from one senior adviser they want somebody who can serve eight years as president after the next term for donald trump. at the sam time we're told there are parts of what donald trump is looking for is somebody who does not have their eyes on the top seat of the white house here. that's where you could maybe a ben carson is still in the mix here, somebody that is not a threat. and if donald trump, there was talk about the 25th amendment being used to boot him from office through his first term. so if you're donald trump and you're skeptical of those who are around you, and who you have to exist around, looking at somebody who is not a political threat is key for him. that is why i think they still have serious question marks about somebody like jd vance because he was down at a private fund-raiser at mar-a-lago a few weeks ago and told the crowd, he said a lot of not nice things about me. if that's the first thing on your mind when you're telling the crowd, you're skeptical about the true motives of that person. >> i would think all of us agree that donald trump wants someone that's not going to outshine him, and someone that is loyal. but what he also, given donald trump being donald trump, would he also go outside of what we have all been predicting and just pick somebody out that no one ever considered? and is it possible that he would pick a woman or a black? you mentioned ben carson. i don't think donald is serious, his media interviews have not rolled out well for him. that he would step outside to really try to call himself breaking the ranks of the democratic party vote by putting a woman or a black on the ticket? is that possible? >> it's still very much possible. i think donald trump is not going through the normal vetting that they did eight years ago. this is elise stefanik was somebody who earlier this spring, you know, i think was at the top of this list. i'm not ruling out by any means the new york congresswoman. there's one answer that -- actually, i was with her outside a campaign event and asked her after the e. jean carroll decision about whether she believed e. jean carroll or whether she believed donald trump. it took her about 2 1/2 minutes to finally get to her answer that she sided with donald trump. it's those types of answers that donald trump needs his running mate to be comfortable answering and coming to his strong defense. and watching even just that momentary hesitation really calls into question how much of a defender is somebody like elise stefanik going to be. that's where i come back to a name like ben carson, somebody who has been there through it all for january 6th through every verdict and that is i think where donald trump has on his mind. >> it's so interesting, vaughn. i think you bring up a great point. we don't know who he's going to pick, and he'll drag it out. just for all of you in the running, i mean, i know you know this. i know most of these people are really -- they're college educated. they studied politics. they understand it. you do understand -- >> it ends badly. >> if you're in the running to be trump's running mate and being mentioned, trump is using you. he's getting you to twist and turn into all sorts of pretzels and he's going to leave you hanging outside. >> no pun intended, vaughn. almost left mike pence hanging. like -- >> stop. joe! >> when they said hang mike pence, trump actually sent out a tweet at that very moment making -- >> that's not what i meant, although that's the risk. >> when mike pence's secret service people thought they were not going to get home to see their families again because they were in so much danger, that, vaughn, is when donald trump sent another tweet out to put him in even more danger. i mean, this is -- is this really a job these people who don't even like donald trump want? >> can i just say, i was with mike pence more than any other reporter in the country during the first three years of his vice presidency. there was nobody who was a better defender. you could call him an enabler. somebody who was there willing to go out and ultimately back up his man than mike pence. i don't think donald trump will be able to find another mike pence. somebody who is able to go on the world stage and go and defend donald trump and what he was doing here at home. and so i think for donald trump largely, he created his own path that is going to be, i think, difficult for anybody else because mike pence is now not even willing to say he would vote for donald trump, is somebody who was there side by side with all of it with him. >> we heard about, jonathan lemire, we heard for a little while about tim scott. is tim scott still in the running here? or not? >> my understanding that he is, but his star has dimmed somewhat. he was near the front of the list a few weeks ago, but he's someone who his own campaign struggled to connect and in his appearances on trump's behalf, there's a lack of real energy there. trump and his team have been a little underwhelmed, shall we say, as to scott's performance. that said, scott is saying all the right things. he's saying he would be deeply loyal to trump. even when he was running against trump for the republican primaries, he didn't criticize trump. he passes that test. i don't think he should be ruled out either. vaughn hit the nail on the head in terms of the current favorites, but that can change. there are so many people in the trump world who want to bring this up to the very eve of the milwaukee convention, which is three-odd-plus weeks away. >> nbc's vaughn hillyard, thank you so much. and thank you for putting up with us. it's like popping popcorn with the top off. >> speaking of that, we have to get an arizona update. how is the senate race going in arizona right now? >> kari lake's numbers are not great. she's under water in some of the polling. under water compared to trump. her favorability is about a 40% here, so for her, this is going to be a struggle. ruben gallego, the democrat, has a great amount of cash on hand. he's been running ads on television about his military service. and so despite having a more progressive record, somebody who had backed bernie sanders previously, this is somebody who could be on his way to a u.s. senate victory. the primary for the republican senate kari lake is not alone. she's running against mark lamb, just one month from now. we don't expect a mark lamb upset of kari lake. yet i would not rule it out because kari lake is under hot water even in maga world. >> wow, kari lake. >> it really is interesting because arizona is such a red state. and yet, they voted for biden and they have two democratic senators. and ruben gallego is more progressive than, you know, anybody that they have elected in the past. >> these are different times. >> these are different times in arizona, and it really does -- it just shows you. so i guess kari lake's challenge remains bringing republicans back together that a couple years ago sounding a lot like donald trump, saying we don't need mccain republicans. we don't need romney, we don't need these sort of republicans. it's now a game of addition for her, and we'll see if she can do it. >> joining us now, jeffrey sonnenfeld, his latest guest esafor "the new york times" entitled i know what america's leading ceos really think of donald trump. also with us for the conversation, coanchor of cnbc's squawk box, andrew ross sorkin, also a columnist for "the new york times" and was in the room when trump met with the ceos. >> right now he's outside of his mansion. >> at his farm. >> in aspen, his ranch in aspen, where he flies his three gulfstreams in and out. >> very bad for the environment, andrew. >> but very good for andrew. i don't know why you're in aspen, but i know it's very important. one of those think tank things. whatever, deal bookie think tanky thinks. >> we're here. the aspen ideas festival, by the way, is sponsored by nbc news. a lot of ceos, politicians. this conversation happening, of course, here as well. >> yes, so yes, that's very incredibly important event, nbc news sponsored. so let's clarify one thing. you were not in the room where it happened where donald trump rambled and ambleed around in front of the ceos, but you talked to several people who were there, who wanted to support trump, who after it was over came to you, despite what the "wall street journal" wrote a couple days later, which was just incredible. but came up to you and said, this guy was just completely out of it. >> look, i heard from a number of people in the immediate aftermath of that meeting, as i said, people who had been supportive of trump, who were a little surprised about just sort of how the conversation went. as you know, president trump and others have since come out and said that he was applauded at the end of the meeting and there were other ceos who liked him. i know that jeff sonnenfeld has talked to a whole number of ceos who were at that meeting as well who could weigh in on where they stand. but i think the big lesson of all of this, more than anything, is that ceos right now don't want to say anything actually publicly about any of the candidates. we had david rubenstein on this morning, a longtime democrat, former carter administration. president biden actually sleeps in his home in nantucket in the summers, and i asked him, are you supporting president biden, and he didn't want to say he was supporting president biden. he said it's my oin choice and i'll be making it separately. i think that speaks to the point right now which is that people are scared to even say anything in part because it very well may be that if president trump does win, they're nervous about what it would mean to be on the other side of him. >> jeffrey, let's talk about these billionaires and ceos. the reticence andrew has described to speak out, even someone's loyalty seems clear, what are they saying behind closed doors. >> i completely corroborate what andrew had courageously identified as that business roundtable meeting. nobody came there to meet with president trump. that was their quarterly meeting, and president biden was also invited. president biden was actually in geneva, in italy at the time for the g-7 meetings and the chief of staff did a good job, in his place. the ceos, historically, not to question what andrew said, but historically, this group has been 60 to 70% republican leaning throughout history. there were the tom watsons of ibm, dupont, they were the exception that were democrats. in fact, going back to william howard taft to calvin coolidge to reagan and the bushes, the group is 40% to 60% publicly supporting the gop candidate, starting with trump, it went to zero. 2016, none. 2020, just two. now it's none again. so that is a profound break in historic pattern that ceos don't want to be identified with the republican candidate. that's profound, and they hate his positions, his economic possessions but also the way he tears apart the social fabric of society. toteville said when he came to the country that even more important than financial capital is what he called social capital. the way trump goes for these wedge issues, you know, many times, of course, especially around charlottesville when we had these anti-racial bias peaceful protesters equated with the white supremacists, the ceos stepped away. first time in american history. wave after wave pulled away from the president's advisory councils and our own events after january 6th and 2021, the ceos, roughly 100 of them and around 70%, 75% republican, unanimously voted for him to be impeached. that was shocking. i didn't expect that outcome. they're not flocking to him. to tell you a secret, they never flocked to him. some of the people whose names we talk on the show about supporting them, in 2005, i brought him to one of our ceo summits and those exact people said if he walks in the room, we're walking out. in fact, that top tier did all walk out. >> let me ask you this. one of the issues that a lot of ceos are dealing with now is dei. diversity, equity, and inclusion. many of the people that have been leading the battle to erase dei or stop dei, stephen miller, bill ackman, all of which have supported trump. miller's part of trump's brigade. how are ceos reacting to that? they're getting pressure from civil rights groups like mine that they can't back out of dei. on the other hand, trump has been anti-dei. his supreme court went against affirmative action. how do they mitigate this or is that part of why they're staying silent? one of the issues they don't want to get in the middle of is dei. >> that's a fantastic question because it's really nuanced how they handle it. we at the university similarly have had our hands flapped trying to figure out how to navigate that space. these ceos know what the right thing is to do. they want to weave the tapestry of society together, make itegeual. they worry about some of the language from time to time, so they try to weave around the language. but these ceos are not xenophobic. immigration issues, and they're not protectionists or isolationists either. they believe in the rule of law and not the law of rulers and they're trying to find a way to make this work. what they would like to find right now is they would like to find something that you tap into, but not enough of your colleagues do. which is what we saw in the 1960s. the interfaith clergy that locked arms together, along with the trade associations, the professional societies, even the ama, the aba, is that they need to support the ceos when they take these stands that they're not out on a limb. these are the stakeholders, the people who own the companies. these ceos are hired hands, they neat need support, but they're right. and those companies are outperforming. the companies that didn't give up on dei, microsoft, or whoever you think of, apple, they're doing extremely well. it's the alt-right economy that's doing terribly. the companies that disparage dei are coincidentally doing terribly. >> all right. thank you as always. we love having you on the show. >> greatest essay for "the new york times" says i know what america's leading ceos really think of donald trump and it's online now. >> please come back soon. it's so interesting, and it is true. you look at just trends in america. you look where younger consumers are, where the market is. and younger consumers aren't xenophobic. younger consumers aren't, you know, playing to these appeals. so you look at ceos interested in the bottom line. they have to worry about their entire audience here. >> they do. >> a lot of the xenophobia doesn't work. it's also fascinating just as you talk about ceos, immigration has traditionally been a republican issue. i know that would sound shocking in 2024, but business owners, small business owners, large business owners, ceos, they love immigration like ronald reagan said. they love having fresh ideas and americans -- america growing. same thing with free trade. the protectionism scares the hell out of these ceos. so donald trump's talking about these massive tariff taxes. he's talking about tariffs like nobody else. and that's something that scares the ceos. so andrew ross sorkin, i want to circle back to you, and of course, you're out there. i'll let you finish there, but i have to say, we knew you were there for the aspen ideas festival. we know tina brown is out there. >> she's running the whole thing. >> taken the baton from walterizenson, who did an extraordinary job. all of you are in great hands. i am curious, though, started yesterday, what's the temperature in the room? we can talk about politics? i know that's going to be more muddled, but the u.s. economy, debt, long term deficits, inflation. what are you hearing out there? >> ai. >> ai? >> i'm going to be talking about -- well, sam altman is going to be here, i'm going to be talking to peter thiel later this week. we'll talk about both politics and the economy, as you might imagine. i think that right now, there is actually a sense, and it was said actually we were talking about dave rubenstein, what's the economy right now? he thinks it's a b-plus. maybe, and that's not on a curve relative to the rest of the world. i think most people here feel pretty good about where things stand. i don't think it's perfect yet, but clearly, i would actually argue the big conversation here is actually not really the economy. it is very much politics and what's going to happen. by the way, jonathan capehart hosting a big debate watch party later this week, and there's a whole number of politicians that will be here that will be part of that. if you allow me, i just wanted to refer to the reverend's question earlier about dei and just what ceos are thinking because i think there's something that's very profound that's happened in america even over the last several years. and you referenced immigration. i will tell you, by the way, during that business roundtable meeting i'm told tim cook specifically asked former president trump about immigration and was asking the question because of his views about dreamers, and i think a lot of these businesses would like to actually have dreamers be allowed in this country. but to the dei point, a lot of companies really went down and made a whole number of pledges around dei because they felt a moral imperative to do it. and what's happened, though, is there's been such a pushback even though customers and employees may very well like it, but a pushback in red states where a lot of these companies do business. it's -- red states and republicans have long left businesses alone because they would say it's a free market. companies should be able to do what they want. what's happened now is you have states like texas and florida telling disney certain things or telling a bank, you know, if you stop financing guns we're not going to allow you to sell municipal bonds in our state. that's changed the dynamic and it's another reason i think you're seeing ceos be silent in many ways around this entire election because they're so fearful that they're going to be on the wrong side, not of history, but the wrong side of this whole issue, and that their business is going to be injured. that's a very amoral, if not immoral position, but that's what's happening. >> i mean, their job is the bottom line. that's what they're thinking. i will say, i made a general statement about dei, you know, younger consumers are going to be attracted to companies that do share their point of view, and that's probably more in line with their point of view. there are, of course, exceptions. target, bud light, bud light just did, i think they just did an instagram post, and you know, everybody melted down over it. i don't know if they have their brand, you know, i think they're still kind of struggling. so there's that. i did want to ask you one other thing, too. i'm starting to pick something up. i ran for congress as a deficit hawk. that's been my obsession for 30 years now. nobody's cared about it for about 28 years. >> but it's back. >> reading the financial times, read the financial times this weekend. a story about what's happening in france. they're very concerned about the debt, public debt there. the united states stateside reading a lot of papers the past weekend. they're starting to raise concerns again about the deficit. about the debt. are you hearing any of that out there? >> i would say a little bit but not hugely yet. i do believe that with what they call the bond individual antes, there could be a day where our debt sky rockets, that's the real anxiety. every recession has been a function of debt. it's the match that's lights the fire every time. the problem is it's not something that happens -- the loss of confidence doesn't happen over years and months. it happens overnight. that i think is what makes a lot of folks nervous. now, the question is how that would all manifest itself. i don't think that we're there yet, but cheerily over the next four to eight years when you look at where our debt and deficits are, if they don't come under control, i think a lot of the things you're seeing happen in europe may come to america. >> all right, cnbc's andrew ross sorkin, thank you so much. great to see you. enjoy the aspen ideas fest. send tina our love. coming up, vice president kamala harris has a warning for those who don't believe donald trump poses a threat to ivf and contraception. we're going to play it for you, that part of our exclusive conversation. and we'll be joined by the president of planned parenthood on this, the second anniversary of the overturning of roe v. wade. if you have generalized myasthenia gravis, picture what life could look like with... vyvgart hytrulo, a subcutaneous injection that takes about 30 to 90 seconds. for one thing, could it mean more time for you? vyvgart hytrulo can improve daily abilities and reduce muscle weakness with a treatment plan that's personalized to you. do not use vyvgart hytrulo if you have a serious allergy to any of its ingredients. it can cause serious allergic reactions like trouble breathing and decrease in blood pressure leading to fainting and allergic reactions such as rashes, swelling under the skin, shortness of breath, and hives. the most common side effects are respiratory and urinary tract infections, headache, and injection 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>> everything is at stake. and fundamentally, on this issue, it's about freedom. and every person of whatever gender should understand that if such a fundamental freedom such as the recognize to make decisions about your own body can be taken, be aware of what other freedoms may be at stake. >> the small percentage of the country that is pro-life, predominantly the numbers show people support abortion across the board nationally. can you explain that abortion is not just for people who are pregnant? that this is health care. >> it is health care, and dr. harris. >> yes, exactly. yes, correct. and you are right, and you're right that this issue really does present a health care crisis in america. including the fact that i am as it turns out the first vice president, and no president has visited a reproductive health care clinic. and one of the reasons i went to that clinic was to highlight that in those clinics that are trusted in the community, you can get a pap, breast cancer screening, hiv screening. the things that where people want to be able to walk into a health care facility and be treated with dignity and without judgment so they can address their health care concerns. that's what these clinics do. and in states where they passed these trump abortion bans, these clinics are closing, which means that there is a reduction of very essential health care across the board for a lot of people. >> even getting a dnc, you don't have to be pregnant. >> that's exactly right. and many states now, that's not -- you can't get these procedures that are life-saving. >> and the threat to ivf, which we have seen. and the threat to contraception. and let's not overlook that clarence thomas said the quiet part out loud in the dobbs decision about what else could be at stake. >> so for people who don't believe they could come after contraception, ivf, and more, you say what? >> vote in november to make sure it doesn't happen. >> that was more from my exclusive interview with vice president kamala harris. along with abortion rights advocate for survivor, sexual abuse survivor hadley duvall. thank you so much for the interview. joining us now, the president and the ceo of planned parenthood action fund and planned parenthood federation of america, alexis mcgill johnson. also with us, cofounder and ceo of all in together, the great lauren leader. thank you both very much for being with me. alexis, what is planned parenthood trying to do to get the word out about exactly what the vice president was talking about? the services that planned parenthood brings to the table, but also that abortion is health care. abortion is equal to health care, to saving lives. >> look, i mean, clearly, we know now, planned parenthood action fund just concluded a recent analysis of the impact of the dobbs decision today. and we know now that 43% of women are living in states with abortion bans. that is 28 million women are living in states and more gender expansive folks and more than half of black women. so when we talk about the fact that abortion is health care, abortion is reproductive health care, and we know now that abortion bans have made pregnancy more dangerous, they have put us at more risk for outcomes in our pregnancies for being criminalized, the idea that people still yet don't understand, right, on the opposite side of the aisle, that these bans are harming people. they are harming patients. and they're putting at risk the majority of reproductive freedom across this country. that's what we're -- that's what we're demonstrating right now, what's at stake. >> so lauren, i just wonder how important you think it is to use wording that is authentic to the problem at hand. since roe was overturned, there are women who can't get the health care that they need. abortion is not a bad word. abortion is a life-saving word. a d & c and the procedures that one uses when they are miscarrying, they are life-saving procedures. when you use words like reproductive freedom or freedom over my body, it somehow triggers though on the far right as if it's something that can't be said out loud. it certainly can be said out loud because it's about saving one's life. whether you're on the far right or a moderate republican, if you're a man or woman, there's going to be someone you love who needs an abortion in order to live or to not be sterilized or to have a miscarriage in a less traumatizing way so they can have more children. how important is it to spell it out for what it is? >> i think it's essential, and you heard the vice president doing that. she's been talking relentlessly about freedom. and the freedom to access the basic life-saving care that millions of women need. as you know and as we talked about many times on this show, in the states that have restricted or banned abortion, you have seen huge spikes in maternal mortality. because doctors are fleeing those states, because of the crisis of care that it is creating writ large for a whole range of health care services. and that is already on top of a massive maternal health crisis that we were already facing in the country before the dobbs decision. i'm so excited to be on with my wonderful dear longtime friend alexis, and we talk about this all the time, alexis, but i wanted you to talk a little bit for our viewers about what you think is possible in terms of restoring the protections of abortion rights if president biden gets a second term, and obviously, you know, we all believe that's going to be essential for the future of women's health care, but talk about what you expect the commitments that the administration has made and what you think they're going to be able to do in addition to blocking, of course, the terrible consequences that a second trump term would potentially have for women. what's the upside for the next term in terms of protecting women's health care? >> yeah, absolutely, lauren. it's so great to see you almost in real life. look, we know what a donald trump administration would bring us, right? we know that he bragged about the dobbs decision. he bragged about putting the justices on who would overturn our reproductive freedoms. and essentially what he was saying is he believed that states should decide. he believed that states should decide who is free and who is equal. and we now are living in that reality that i talked about, the 43% of us who are living in those states who no longer have free and equal rights. the upside of a biden administration is incredibly exciting. we have an administration that has been an incredible partner, fighting for reproductive freedom, fighting to protect patients. fighting to protect the right to travel, fighting to protect, you know, the right for providers to provide care. and suing states like idaho for not enforcing laws like emtala. we know the opportunity here is not just to restore roe, but to build roe back better. we need a durable national expansive right. we need a federal right. and that is what a collective of reproductive rights and health and justice organizations under the banner of abortion access now are coming together just today announced $100 million strategy to insure that this administration has the right legislation in front of them to insure that we have reproductive freedom and that we are not back in this place as we are two day -- two years after dobbs. >> yep, president of planned parenthood alexis mcghin johnson, thank you. and lauren, we'll be talking about this all week in the lead-up to the debate. we need to have you back. cofounder and ceo of all in together, lauren leader, thank you as well. >> coming up, we're going to go through the ever changing relationship between president biden and former president obama. in a new piece for new york magazine, our next guest explains how the two are working together to secure their legacies even as they disagree on the tactics. also ahead, it's not superhero movies dominating theaters this summer but family friendly films. we'll dig into why this genre could be now reinvigorating the box office. 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i look at the numbers of the past few weeks, and i wonder nationwide if people are in the theaters because it's hot outside. >> well, i think it's two things. i think, first of all, we've become much more commune-based, we've become much more local, and i think what we're doing is sort of a reflection of that. it's one thing to have a safe place where you can go and feel comfortable and it's beautifully elevated. so in all of our places, the goal is to have 15 of these in america. we already have quite a few set up. the goal is, it's an experience. it's not just a beautiful movie theater. it's not just a pub, because all of them have pubs. not bars. bars are for shots. pubs are for enjoying a nice ale. also having an event space, having a club, all of these elements, we want you to be able to essentially spend your whole day there. it's like a community center, but elevated. so you can do your work, you can meet with friends for a drink while your kids are watching a movie. it should be all things, and it should be somewhere that -- people don't want to get in cars, i have to tell you. people don't want to get in cars and drive from here, for example, for 25 minutes to get from new canaan, to get to a big box theater. god bless amc. it's not like everyone knows your name. all of our staff will know the names of everyone. it's your cheers, as it were. >> there's a totally different vibe. and the big box theaters, i remember in last years i took my mom to a big box theater and it had like lay-z-boys and the feet went up and food arrived. she was laughing so hysterically we couldn't get through the movie. there were itty-bitty book lights. it's a different experience. this is about nostalgia, is it not? >> it's about nostalgia. watch the bloody movie. that's what we're there about. we don't need heated seats and all this. we have beautiful seats that we have from finland which are just a really comfortable experience. we don't need, when you're watching "the fast and the furious," for your seat to be bouncing up and down. that's not the business we're in. people don't want to pay $30 for it. >> right. that, too. the new canaan play house theater opens back up this friday. congratulations ceo and co-founder of cinema lab luke parker bowles. thank you very much. it's great to see you. have fun with that. turning back now to politics. former president barack obama expected to join president biden on the campaign trail in the coming months. this comes after the pair recently reunited at a number of fundraisers. one in new york city and one in los angeles. let's bring in national correspondent for "new york magazine" gabe deben debtity. his latest piece is about that relationship, entitled "obama is whispering to biden." . so tell us, gabe, what is it? >> it's a whole lot these days and even more than a few months ago. as we talked about before, this relationship has shifted a lot over its multiple decades. the two presidents were not talking a ton, especially not about politics itself late last year. that all changed last december when biden invited obama over to the white house for a wide-ranging conversation. it did touch on the state of the re-election campaign and obama tried to explain to bite biden, this is what we did with our 2012 re-election. ever since then obama has been talking a lot to a number of people in the biden orbit, including some of the aides that biden sent to run the campaign in wilmington after that conversation with obama, and obama has been raising a lot of money for biden, too. there are concerns as well. one of the things he's interested in is how the campaign is reaching out to young people, how the campaign is engaging with black voters particularly. these are things he's watching closely even behind the scenes he's raising a lot of money in the short run. the question is what is that role going to look like over the next few months. >> gabriel, one of the things that strikes me, i remember in '08 biden and obama ran against each other in the primaries and then biden joined the ticket. a lot of the interactions i had over the eight years that obama was in the white house, biden was there for him. he was key with the affordable care act. though they came from different parts of the party, they worked together. how much of this in your writing do you think president obama sees the protection of his legacy and the things that he was able to get done? >> i don't think that's something he explicitly talks about or when obama is talking to biden aides. there's absolutely no doubt there's a subject to a lot of what's going on here. the basic question, are they going to be basically facing the destruction of their legacy, both joint and individual if trump comes back. one of the things that obama has repeatedly encouraged some of the top biden aides running the campaign to do is to focus on the contrast when it comes to, for example, the affordable care act. that's something democrats have been doing pretty effectively for a very long time now ever since its passage almost a decade and a half ago. now it's something that's a very popular legacy of obamas. no one doubts if trump were to come back, major parts of it would see destruction. obama has over and over said, this is a positive thing that you guys should be focusing on. >> the new piece is on line right now for "new york magazine." national correspondent gabe deben debtity, thank you so much for your reporting this morning. that does it for us this morning. ana cabrera picks up the coverage in just one minute. ♪♪ fastsigns. make your statement. dave's company just scored the comcast business 5-year price lock guarantee. high five! high five... -i'm on a call. it's 5 years of reliable, gig speed internet... five years of advanced security... five years of a great rate that won't change. yep, dave's feeling it. yes. but it's only for a limited time. five years? 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