Good morning, im melissa harrisperry. Hes a lame duck. He has a congress dominated by the opposing party. But despite rumors of his political demise president obama is kind of on a roll. Since his party lost the senate in november the president has allowed 4 million undocumented immigrants to come out of the shadows. Hes rebuilding relations with cuba. Hes pushing congress to catch up with the rest of the world and force employers to offer paid sick days for their workers and give paid parental leave to federal employees for the first time. Just this week the president s department of justice put major restrictions on a program that has allowed police to seize 3 billion worth of cash and personal property since 2008. The Washington Post called it quote, the most sweeping check on police power to confiscate personal property since the seizures began three decades ago as part of the war on drugs. And hes trying to give free college to the people. Free college now, republicans with their newfound power in congress have also been on a roll. They are passing a bill to go over the president s head to approve a massive oil pop line that the president has promised to veto. Theyre planning to vote to ban abortion after 20 weeks of pregnancy, a bill which the president has promised to veto. Theyre hoping to rewrite the Affordable Care act employer mandate, which the president has promised to veto. And they are trying to derail the president S Immigration actions saying they will only funneled the department of Homeland Security if the executive actions are revoked. These titans will clash face to face on tuesday at the president s seventh state of the Union Address. And the first with both chambers of congress controlled by the republican party. The president has been announcing his new policies ahead of the big speech. Like his Community College plan which would cover up to two years of tuition at Community College for as many as 9 Million Students a year. I want to make it free. Community colleges should be free for those willing to work for it. Because in america a quality education cannot be a privilege that is reserved for a few. I think its a right for everybody whos willing to work for it. Access. See, the key here is access. In the history of Higher Education in america, its for the most part a story of slowly widening access. For more than 250 years after harvard was founded in 1636 access to Higher Education was limited to the very very few, the very rich the elite. In 1915 just 6 of 18 to 21yearolds went to college. Less than 2 of those completed degrees. By 1940 attendance rates had nearly tripled to 16 , a rate far higher than any other country at that time. And with world war ii came the Great AmericanCollege Access program, the g. I. Bill passed in 1944 which funded College Tuition and Living Expenses for veterans. In 1947 half of all College Admissions were veterans. Over 12 years, nearly 8 million vets used the g. I. Bill for education or job training. Now the rising tide didnt lift all boats equally. Only about 3 of women who served in the war went to college on the g. I. Bill and africanamerican veterans were still barred from most of the colleges in the jim crow south. But the g. I. Bill helped make a college available to the middle class masses instead of the elite few. In 1957 37 of 18 to 21yearolds attended college, more than double the rate less than 20 years previous and attendance has continued to grow. 19. 5 Million People attended college in 2013. Twothirds of High School Graduates now enroll in college within a year. But after decades of expansion, access may now be shrinking. In 2013 College Enrollment dropped for the second year in a row and Higher Education, if youre a parent you know this is getting ever more expensive. Not just at private colleges. State cuts to public universities mean ever steeper tuition increases. Debtfree Financial Aid is getting harder to find and the federal pell grant program, which is vital to low income students, is simply always on congresss chopping block. Most recently just last month when lawmakers slashed 303 million from the program. And while more and more children from low income families are going to college, they attend at much lower rates than those from high income families. The gap between the two is now higher than it was in 1975. Low income students are also more likely to go to Community College or forprofit schools which have poor job prospects and higher debt loads while wealthier students are more likely to go to fouryear and private universities. This is the result the unintended consequence of the same forces that opened the doors in the first place. And here comes president obama. He is throwing open the doors and trying to make some College Affordable again. The question is it a good thing or a bad thing . Joining me now, bob herbert, author of losing our way, an intimate portrait of a troubled america. Dalton connelly. Michelle chen contributing editor at in these times and cohost of a podcast and patrick gleason, director of state affairs at americans for tax reform. Dalton, i want to start with you about the ways in which college either widens or narrows inequality in this country and particularly whether or not you think this plan to provide more Community College access will widen or narrow inequality. Well the returns to a College Education in terms of later earnings are higher than they have ever been in history and getting higher every year. If we dont do something, college will serve to wooindiden the gap and reduce economic mobility even more. I greatly support this program. I think theres a few tweaks that need to be made but its a great step forward and the best Program Since the g. I. Bill of the 50s. But on that return because im a college professor, i probably have predisposed to like the idea of more people going to college, but on the other hand when we looked at the returns for a bachelors degree versus some college, including the associates, versus high school, your Unemployment Rate for high school is at 5 for some college is close to 5 and for the bachelors thats where it drops down. So is it twoyear enough of a return . No, no no. I am a big fan of tuitionfree college and i want more and more kids going to college. You need a College Education not just to get a decent job but to have a fuller life a fuller life experience. But we have america has, as you know, the finest Higher Education system in the world. But one of the worst performing aspects of that system are the Community Colleges. What i would much prefer to see is the money that the president is proposing for this Community College program to go to qualified students to use for Higher Education any way they wanted to so that you could use it for fouryear College Education. So thats almost more thats almost like a higher ed Voucher Program, right . Where the money follows the students . That might be the way. You could use as a model, you could use the g. I. Bill. I got benefits under the g. I. Bill because i was in the army in the 1960s so the army paid for part of my College Education. So you mentioned the g. I. Bill. They did not try to track g. I. S into twoyear schools from the g. I. Bill. You could use those benefits any way you wanted to and most went to fouryear colleges. I dont see any reason to make that kind of distinction now. Then im sort of interested in then why the decision for Community Colleges. Because again, i have a kind of strong anything that makes college more affordable seems something from my perspective as a teacher as well as a parent but i wonder if you create a system where you flood that twoyear College Market and end up with an unintended consequence of dropping the value of it because it does become universal. A couple thoughts. One, this is not free Community College. According to the white houses estimates, its in excess of 60 billion. It becomes free to the individual household. Its a cost that we bear collectively. Its being told as free to the students. But actually its really a giveaway to Community College administrators not communities. I think what you can expect to see is the same dynamic weve seen with traditional higher ed. As subsi dags has increased, so has costs. Higher ed costs is one of the biggest problems, the skyrocketing costs and how they have grown well in excess of inflation. I think youll see the same problem. But i want to pause on that for a second because the increase in tuition, particularly at state universities, which was the affordable space for ordinary folks to get fouryear educations is not because of an increase in subsidies, its because state legislatures decreased the amount they were giving to colleges. Another thing to point out is pell grants which you mentioned earlier, cover a lot of costs of Community College if not all of it for lower incomes. I think we should back up and mention its a little hard to take this white house seriously on education when this is the same white house that tried to basically trap poor primarily minority d. C. Students in bad schools because they want to get rid of the Voucher Program at the behest of teachers unions. And the only reason they didnt take place is because of the Speaker John Boehner so its a little hard to take them seriously. I dont find it at all hard to take them seriously on the part of education because jill biden teaches at Community Colleges, they seem to be interested in this question. But the education piece i think is part of it. Im going to play the president and then ask you a question about what they mean by education. Heres what the president thinks education helps us to do. It is the key to getting a good job that pays a good income and to provide you the security where even if you dont have the same job for 30 years, youre so adaptable and you have a skill set and the capacity to learn new skills it ensures youre always employable. So its the back end of that that im interested in. I wonder about the extent to which the Community College thinking of this is the front end of it training you for employment but the part that you need is the back end, which allows you flexibility because most people dont work one job for 30 years anymore. Exactly. I also think thats one of the key cost issues of the Community College plan to begin with. The pell grant actually covers a lot of low income Community College students costs already so what we have is a plan that might end up benefitting the most advantaged students and not targeting the people who have not just difficulty paying for Community College but i mean the actual tuition is just a tiny fraction of what it actually costs to bring yourself through Higher Education experience in this country. I mean were talking about two years here but, you know whats the most beneficial is actually a bachelors degree. So how are we going to see these people through that fouryear experience or twoyear experience and then make sure the experience pays off for them. Not only that but that they have the resources they need to really keep their lives in order while theyre pursuing their educations. I want to touch on both of those and then again this question of how we make it an even broader issue when we come back. Before we go to break, we want you to update you on some potentially dangerous weather affecting parts of the east coast and new england right now. Heavy rain snow and ice are making travel difficult on many roads, causing numerous accidents. In new jersey, hundreds of crews are spreading salt on roads throughout the state. New Jersey Transit has suspended bus service statewide. Governor Chris Christies office is urging people to stay home and for all motorists to exercise caution and drive slowly. Stay with msnbc throughout the day for the latest on the weather conditions. Your moms got your back. Your friends have your back. Your dogs definitely got your back. But whos got your back when you need legal help . We do. Were legalzoom, and over the last 10 years weve helped millions of people protect their families and run their businesses. We have the right people onhand to answer your questions, backed by a trusted network of attorneys. So visit us today for legal help you can count on. Legalzoom. Legal help is here. [ fishing rod casting line, marching band playing ] [ male announcer ] the rhythm of life. [ whistle blowing ] where do you hear that beat . Campbells healthy request soup lets you hear it in your heart. [ basketball bouncing ] heart healthy. Great taste. [ mm. ] [ tapping ] sounds good. Campbells healthy request. Mm mm good. ® for most people, earning cash back ends here, at the purchase. But theres a new card in town. Introducing the citi® double cash card. It lets you earn cash back when you buy and again as you pay. Thats cash back twice. Its cash back with a side of cash back. The citi double cash card. The only card that lets you earn cash back twice on every purchase with 1 when you buy and 1 as you pay. With two ways to earn, it makes a lot of other cards seem onesided. Ive been coloring lizs hair for years. But lately shes been coming in with less gray than usual whats she up to . Root touchup by nicen easy. Has the most shade choices designed to match even salon color in just 10 minutes. With root touchup, all they see is you. Education helps us be better people. It helps us be better citizens. You came to college to learn about the world and engage with new ideas and to discover the things youre passionate about. And maybe have a little fun. And expand your horizons. Thats terrific. Thats a huge part of what college has to offer. But youre also here now more than ever because a College Degree is the surest ticket to the middle class. That was president obama last friday at a Community College in knoxville, tennessee, announcing his plan to make Community College free to some 9 Million Students a year. I do want to pick up on the earlier point that in fact Community College is free for many students effectively already, particularly the lowest income students where pell grants cover almost the entire cost of education. Does this, therefore, end up being an unintended subsidy for middle class kids instead of for the neediest students . I think its important to make anything for education universal, it will have more political support, but i agree with bob that it shouldnt be confined to Community Colleges that dont have the returns that fouryear colleges do. Attach it to every kid in the u. S. , even itchf its only two years of funding, take it anywhere you want. I disagree with the point that its subsidies driving the cost of Higher Education. We dont benefit from technology. Its still you and me in a classroom with 30 kids or 300 or whatever it is and we cant clone ourselves, we cant make robots of melissa to lecture simultaneously in four languages or whatever so theres no returns to Technological Advancement the way there is in other industries. Relatively it gets more secretary of defense ive because its very high Human Capital. Is that an argument . I had a little chill went down my back because there is nothing i value more in my experience than me in a room with 30 kids. And in fact i think those in the elite continue to pay for that form of education. So is it that it just will get more expensive because of Human Capital costs or okay, time to uk suck it up and teach our 4,000 person online classes. No. That becomes the argument for containing costs. You can try to contain costs and the important thing is to do it in a reasonable way. College is going to be expensive. Any time that you have this intense relationship between instructors and students and then the other aspects of college life its going to cost a lot of money. But the president made the important point that he said that college he said that Higher Education is a prerequisite for a middle class standard of living. He could have gone further. I think a fouryear degree is almost a prerequisite for a middle class standard of living. If thats what the country is supposed to be about, then we do have to suck it up and pay for it. Is there a claim potentially there that thats an elitist world view. That education is a good but not a totalizing good not th