pioneered by big tobacco over justice system. >> plus, the impeachment muddle. the last 50 or 60 years trying democrats approve rules that could make it easier to impeemp to hook kids on something that will ultimately kill them. president trump. >> i know longer care to argue being employed by the vaping about the nomenclature. industry. why are both democratic we need vigorous regulation. we need to treat this as a true supporters and opponent of impeachment so unhappy. public health crisis. >> also, and bolton makes three. and respond with the urgency president trump's third national security adviser is out. that it demands. we have to make sure no one is >> we were set back very badly able to buy their way in to our when john bolton talked about democracy with pac checks or the libyan model. and he made a mistake. lobbyists to write the rules in >> amid the constant chaos, i'll their favor. as tobacco has done, as ask a member of the republican pharmaceutical corporations are able to do, as the nra has been leadership in the house, liz able to do. cheney of wyoming, whether she we have to stand up for people and especially for kids right thinks the world is more stable now. since donald trump became this is an urgent issue. >> congressman beto o'rourke, commander in chief. joining me for insight and coming to us from houston, analysis are nbc news chief texas. be safe on the trail and thanks white house correspondent hallie for coming on and sharing your jackson, helene cooper, pentagon views. >> thank you very much. correspondent for "the new york appreciate it. and joining me now, times," former republican governor of north carolina, pat democratic presidential candidate senator cory booker of mccrory, and former senator from new jersey. welcome back to "meet the press." missouri, democrat claire >> really good to be here. mccaskill. welcome to sunday. >> before i get into some of the it's "meet the press." specifics of this campaign, i want to quote something from >> from nbc news in washington, maureen dowd's column this the longest running show in morning in "the new york times." television history, this is she writes about the larger issue of watching the debate, "meet the press" with chuck todd. headline says are democrats d m >> good sunday morning. doomed? sheids it's a paradox wrapped in to quote the great yogi berra, it's getting late early out an oxy mo ae moey more onabout . there. yes, there were still ten candidates at thursday's debate, and yes, there may be even more at the next one, but for now at least, it feels as if we have a we were discussing this before. top three. bernie sanders, joe biden, and this debate process is very rigid. lots of people on stage and all elizabeth warren. true, there are still 141 days of that. are you concerned? until the first votes are cast she seems concerned about the in iowa, but if anything, the picture that the country is gap between the front-runners seeing right now, the democratic party. are you? and the rest of the field only >> not at all. seemed to grow on thursday even i actually had some friends of with biden dominating the mine in the press send me party's moderates. headlines from this time in a presidential election in '07, the democratic race has turned you know, and you just see how into a contest between increm t there's going to be a sort of incrementalism and structure scrimmage going on within our change, between the inside game and the change the game team, and it may not be the message, not the message, but it snaurjants. between presumed loftier may not be the exact spirit aspiration. that's going to be on the stage did anyone win? here's one take. because you're seeing a natural elizabeth warren won the competition of ideas. i'm not worried. democratic primary debate. we have to go through this. exciting the progressive left. while joe biden won the general it's part of the process. it's a good thing. election debate, offering the you're seeing some of the best political talent in our country, safe alternative to president and i have a lot of confidence, trump. despite some verbal stumbles and in fact, i'm making the case an unsubtle reference to his that we're going to choose somebody that's going to be able to unite the disparate voices of age. >> i don't view it as anything. he got his facts wrong. our party and really bring a >> joe biden deflecting questions about his age after united front to this president. this attack by julian castro on >> it does seem as you're trying whether his health care plan to somehow bridge a divide that automatically enrolls the appears to some of us between, uninsured. >> they do not have to buy in. say, warren and sanders, and they do not have to buy in. vice president biden, of saying >> you just said that two minutes ago. be incrementally aspirational, i you just said two minutes ago guess. they have to buy in. like look, it's baby steps. you said they would have to buy the goal is medicare for all, as in. are you forgetting what you said you say, but you're not saying two minutes ago? you're going to get there >> it's not clear castro's tomorrow. attack was correct on the it seems as if that message is hard to wedge in here. substance. and it certainly appeared to people either say, hey, no, give backfire, with other candidates me an electable guy or give me quick to defend biden. >> i thought that was so the transformation. personal and so unnecessary. >> look, i can't stand these >> you think it was fair to people that say these bright suggest that joe biden has lost lanes. for me, i think i feel it when i it? >> no. >> castro is denying he was talk to really good people on implying biden is declining with that stage that i know, that there is a unifying message age. >> what i was pointing out is he here. that look, we are a nation with denied saying the words buy in even though he did say the words a savagely broken health care system. buy in. >> other candidates have this is the party, not the guy trying to take it away in the carefully brought up the age white house right now. question. >> there's a lot of people who we have seen since the are concerned about joe biden's affordable care act, a number of ability to carry the ball all the way across the end line insured go down significantly. without fumbling. we're the party trying to say >> before pulling it back. >> forgive me if my football everybody should have health insurance. metaphor about fumbling the ball we're going to fight to get is being taken out of context. there. we can walk and chew gum at the same time. but the reality is, i want to not sacrifice progress for purity. >> i want to put up the poll get into the end zone. >> while wounding castro, the numbers for this, because among democrats on medicare for all, line of attack could also heard among democrats, they would biden by getting a permission prefer building on obamacare, 55%, replace it with medicare slip to critics who want to put for all, 40%. his age in the center of the i imagine many democrats say debate. >> how do you overcome this? that because they remember the >> carry the ball to the finish political trauma of what it line. >> could we see your medical took. it's not as if obamacare was records? >> what the hell concerns. easy to i. lment. you want to wrestle? easy to get passed. >> on friday, biden pledged to do you think you have to take that into account, how hard it release his medical records would be to actually get before the iowa caucuses. medicare for all implemented though biden struggled at time. before you propose it? >> when i walk around and >> play the radio, make sure the television -- make sure you have actually have conversations with the record player on at night. people, this is where you're right. the phone, make sure the kids maureen is right about the hear words. political sloganeering. >> so far, biden's general most people have multiple views election argument has been of what medicare is for all in durable with the debate shifting the first place. leftward in the primary, biden americans are very frustrated is challenging warren and with our health care system. sanders on the cost of their prescription drugs are health care proposals. ridiculously too high, >> will middle class taxes go especially relative to other up, will private insurance be nations. we have a system that seems eliminated? >> what families have to deal bureaucratic. people have to fight with their insurance companies. with is cost. and so i think folks just want total cost. >> i don't doubt their motive, this broken expensive system but it's going to cost over $3.4 that, by the way, incent vises all the wrong behaskier. trillion a year. don't go to a doctor, ration how can that possibly be done your drugs. we need to fix this system and i without raising taxes? >> and questioning beto think we're the party putting forth a vision to do just that. o'rourke's proposed mandatory >> right, but do you worry buy-back of assault weapons. >> hell yes, we're going to take you're scaring -- that either your ar-15, your ak-47. you're doing one of two things, we're not going to allow it to overpromising something that be used against a fellow can't be delivered or, and at american any more. the time, also scaring >> i frankly think that clip independents who are fiscally will be played for years at frightened by it. >> i'm not worried. second amendment rallies with 2018 was an election that turned many ways on health insurance. organizations that try to scare we knew this stark contrast. people by saying democrats are one party that's trying to make coming for your guns. it better, that's going to bring >> joining me now from houston progress. and another party that is trying is former congressman, to kill it, is trying to take it democratic presidential away, is trying to cut your candidate beto o'rourke. congressman o'rourke, welcome benefits or end obamacare, and back to "meet the press," sir. your protections from >> good morning. >> good morning. pre-existing conditions. >> you spent a lot of time look, senator, republican senator pat toomey from onstage with vice president pennsylvania, you heard the biden. are you concerned about his ability to get the ball over the chris coons comment the end of . goal line, as you said? and pat toomey tweeted the >> number one, anybody on the following, i agree with chris stage, anybody that i was with the other night, would be a coons. this is an awful and extreme better president than the one we have. idea, thankfully there's not >> is everybody ready? enough support in congress to do is everybody physically up to it. but with this rhetoric it? >> look, i think that, again, if i thought somebody else could do undermines and hurts bipartisan the job better than me, i would efforts to actually make not be running. progress on commonsense gun and i know this for a fact. safety efforts like expanding this is not just about one background checks. he went on the record, office. congressman, a few other this is about getting rid of democrats have gone with blind mitch mcconnell as the majority quotes. leader. this is about state houses and a lot of hand wringing about governors houses. what you said. at the top of america's ticket agreeing with your sentiment, in our party, we need someone but concerned that the rhetoric who can energize, that can is going to actually backfire. what do you say? ignite, that can capture the moral imagination of this >> i think this just shows you country. how screwed up the priorities in i believe i'm the best person to do that, and unify people. >> i want to put up headlines washington, d.c. are. i think what's truly awful is a from all the debates. every every debate, you got 17-month-old baby shot in the face with an ar-15, as happened really good reviews. first debate, booker reminded in odessa. democrats he's a gifted what's truly awful is 22 people communicator. third debate, probably his best killed in a walmart, the fur form nls so far. hasn't translated into the saturday before school starts that next monday. polls. buying their school supplies. the three front-runners are the three front-runners and it seems innocent of any crime or any like now there's a bigger gap threat to this country. between those three and the rest in fact, living in one of the of you. what's your diagnosis of why you safest cities in america, el haven't caught on yet? >> we have. >> okay. >> where it matters. paso, texas. you're sophisticated enough to hunted down by their ethnicity with a weapon designed for use know politics. the polls have never been on a battlefield. predictive this far out. if you're polling ahead right talking to doctors and trauma now, you should worry because we room surgeons who treated the victims in el paso, they said have never had someone polling ahead at this time go on to win. these are wounds of war. when it hit their systems, it shredded everything inside of the people who win are long them. shots, carter, bill clinton, i refuse to assessment that. i refuse to even acknowledge the barack obama, but here's something more interesting to politics or the polling or the note. on the ground in the states where you're going to have fear or the nra. 300,000, 400 people deciding in that is purchase to complicity caucus rooms, we have more and silence of members of congress, and this weak response endorsements from state to a real tragedy in america, legislators than all the top five polling candidates 40,000 gun deaths a year, we have to do something about it. combined. in other words, the people on i'm proposing that we do the ground in iowa, who are something about it. seeing what's happening, who are >> explain how your change of going to be in the caucus rooms, heart, when you describe -- to are choosing my campaign. we have a better organization be a bit harsh here, what you than just about any other just said about sort of the weakness of washington, you used candidate. we're going to win this the same to be one of those members of way i beat a machine in newark, congress who used to advocate new jersey, by organizing. >> the senate is back. oh, this very careful wording on there night be some gun guns. where did you go wrong? legislation. senator pat toomey is trying to >> i reject that, chuck. get his background check bill in. you said something interesting in texas, in every single one of at the debate about we're the 254 county said, no matter letting too many things -- the enemy of the perfect metaphor you used. do you feel that way about the gun issue as well? how red or rural or big and blue, i was showing up talking you're pushing for mandatory about an assault-weapons ban in buybacks, for gun registration, that state. but do you also say if you can a proud gun owning state, because i also know it's a proud get an expanded background check, take it for now and move responsible gun owning state. on? >> the only major bipartisan and folks said that is the third rail of politics in texas. bill to pass in the senate was you can never talk about it. one i led in the senate with so i have been talking about these issues throughout the dick durbin for criminal justice state. but you're right. reform. on august 3rd, in el paso, with thousands of people have been liberated from prison. 22 people killed, dozens more you talk to those folks who are grievously injured, i could no out of prison right now -- >> you take what you can get. longer accept that that would be >> you get as much off the table enough, because there's still more than 10 million assault as you can. one thing i will not allow weapons, weapons of war, out on happen for the rest of my debate the street. and if we agree that they're is let this debate be framed by dangerous to sell and we should stop selling them, we also have the corporate gun lobby. to agree that these are overwhelmingly the majority of instruments of terror that are americans agree on bold action still out there and have to be brought back home or they're going to be used against us. and end the carnage happening, and that's what we have seen in el paso, in midland, odessa, in not just on the awful mass sutherland springs. shootings we see, but every just three communities in texas. single day, we have a mass shooting destroying communities, >> you heard at one time, i lives, families. believe, it was vice president >> democratic senator cory booker of new jersey, you have biden offered up, and he said to get to some campaigning. don't forget the constitution. thanks for stopping by. so let me ask it this way, what >> thank you for having me. >> be safe on the trail. is your interpretation of what >> when we come back, what we the second amendment allows and learned from the democratic what the second amendment does debate and why are democrats not allow? impeachment seems to be the hardest word. >> i'll put it this way. the panel is next. nel is next. this is something that we're able to do through the commerce clause. and this is something that is not prevented from the united states -- wouldn't prevent the u.s. from doing by the second amendment. so this is constitutionally sound. this is absolutely necessary if we care about the lives of our fellow americans. and here's something i want to tell you. going to a gun show in conway, arkansas, stopping at a bucky's in katie, texas, yesterday. woman: (on phone) discover. hi. do you have a travel card? yep. our miles card. listening to owners of ar-15s, republicans who come up to me earn unlimited 1.5 miles and say you know what, i own one and we'll match it at the end of your first year. of those guns. nice! i'm thinking about a scuba diving trip. don't need it to hunt, don't woman: ooh! need it for self-defense. this is the right thing to do. (gasp) or not. you okay? yeah, no, i'm good. earn miles. we'll match 'em at the end of your first year. i would gladly give it up because i have kids in school and i fear for their safety, or i have grandkids and want to make sure the country is safe for them. i think there's support beyond the democratic party to include republicans and independents, gun owners and non-gun owners alike to do the right thing. >> very quickly, i am curious craftsmanship, and technology that you have gotten a lot more that have made the rx attention for saying what you the leading luxury suv of all time. did. you were spoeting mandatory lease the 2019 rx 350 buybacks before. now you're getting this focus for $399 a month for 36 months. because of how you said it. there's been some coverage of experience amazing at your lexus dealer. you recently going, hey, congressman o'rourke is in his blanket stage. you know, referring to the fact that you will curse occasionally on the stump. do you find it a bit frustrating that it takes sometimes theatrics to get the attention of the press corps, to get the attention of the american for $399 a month for 36 months. you wanna see something thatamazing?ing. public? go to hilton instead of a travel site and you'll experience >> i think what people want us to do, and what i'm trying to do a whole new range of emotions like... in this campaign, is just to see the relaxing feeling of knowing you're getting the best price. things as clearly as i possibly these'll work. can. and speak as honestly as i the utter delight of free wi-fi... . possibly can. oh man this is the best part. without triangulating or polling isn't that you? or, you know, focus group yeah. and the magic power of unlocking your room with your phone. testing what the message is. just call it out for what it is, i can read minds too. absolutely wrong, unacceptable really? that we have people killed in book at hilton.com. this way in our communities. if you find a lower rate, and people living in fear in we match it and give you 25% off that stay. america today. expect better. expect hilton. i reject that fear. and i want to go forward with a bold, ambitious proposal to make that's it. i'm calling kohler about their walk-in bath. [ sigh ] not gonna happen. sure we're safe in our communities, safe in our homes, my name is ken. how may i help you? safe in america again. >> is the to president trump, a hi, i'm calling about kohler's walk-in bath. excellent! happy to help. huh? hold one moment please. [ finger snaps ] hmm. the kohler walk-in bath features an extra-wide opening and a low step-in at three inches, which is 25 to 60% lower than some leading competitors. the bath fills and drains quickly, back, neck and shoulders. kohler is an expert in bathing, so you can count on a deep soaking experience. are you seeing this? the kohler walk-in bath comes with fully adjustable hydrotherapy jets and our exclusive bubblemassage. everything is installed in as little as a day by a kohler-certified installer. and it's made by kohler- america's leading plumbing brand. we need this bath. yes. yes you do. a kohler walk-in bath provides independence with peace of mind. welcome back. panel is here. former republican governor of north carolina, pat mccrory. former democratic governor from missouri, claire mccaskill. hallie jackson, and huh lain cooper, pentagon correspondent for "the new york times." i want to start with this headline. actually, we'll call it a series of headlines. dan balls' analysis piece. for most of the night, biden's time to shine. and then at some point, "the washington post" decided to change their headline to the following, claire mccaskill. for most of the night, biden weathers a volley of attacks. i start this way because it does seem as if biden's debate performance got worse and worse the longer we've gone from thursday. versus people that watched it in the moment, like dan did from soup to nuts, to the interpretations of it on social media after. what say you? >> there's a critical mass of insiders and talking heads and i'm one of them, that i have to call myself a talking head now. >> yes, you do. can't criticize us anymore. >> that's true, but there is this narrative that people are really holding on to. i will tell you, people that are going to decide this election, that watched that debate, thought joe biden did fine. you know, the ones who like him still like him. i think some were offended at what julian castro did. the most important thing joe biden did in the debate is crystallize the health care debate. do you want a choice, americans, between what you have at work and a public plan? or do you want a government plan? and that, i think, will be the defining debate as we go forward to iowa. >> i guess the question i have is a media narrative, which is how -- if already people are watching a debate, those that are interpreting it, through the prism of, is he going to survive this debate? >> well, remember, the democrats' strongest argument for the presidential campaign is we need someone to be presidential. but the fact of the matter is i as a republican would love to see as many democratic debates as possible because i watched the entire debate, while changing back and forth to the carolina panther game, but i don't think anyone showed a presence of being presidential. there was no strategy, no vision, there were bad jokes. there were a lack of details. there was some confrontation, the first part of the debate, and from there on out, everyone went to packages comments, which you and i have been in many debates. we know what that's like. i just don't think the democrats are getting any -- making any progress in being the president among the ten people on that stage. >> i would say that president trump has so changed the definition of presidential that i don't see how you can say that. because -- >> it's easy to say. >> everybody standing on that stage, i didn't see anybody doing sort of any of the sort of things, sorts of things that president trump has done in the last two and a half years when you talk about the definition of presidential. so i think at the very least, everybody, all ten of them on that stage met the very low, low bar that we now have for that word. i think the issue, though, is still a question of if you're watching that debate last night, if you're one of the lefties, the people on the left of the democratic party, then you thought that vice president biden, you know, completely self-immolated. if you're one of the moderates, you think he did perfectly fine. i think we're still -- everybody still seems to be in their respective corners. >> from a policy perspective, i think this debate did a couple things. i think it crystallized where the candidates stand on the health care issue. more so than we have seen in other debates. it became clear, depending on what you want, you found a candidate that would or would not match you. the moment, hell yes, we're going to take your ar-15s. i cover the white house, there are those familiar with the actions on gun legislation who are acknowledging that was not helpful. the congressman can say i refuse to acknowledge politics. that is not pragmatically tenable in the eyes of people who are actually working on this policy as it moves forward. that's going to be a moment that lasts a long longer than those three hours. >> i want to show you poll numbers. among democrats, the mandatory buyback prm is extremely popular. this has surprised a lot of people. 74% support. now look at it among independents and you see declining support, but basically one to one. now look at it among republicans, two to one essentially against it, which gives you an overall support number of 52/44. this to me seems to be the trap for democrats, if you will. this is an extraordinarily popular and growing in popularity, and it may be a case where the public is ahead of the politicians, but you have been in the senate. what about, is chris coons and pat toomey right about this? >> well, this is really what you started with. there's two things here. do we want to get things done and reassure the american people that their democracy works? or do we want to continue to be inspirational only with policies that frankly are not realistic in terms of the way our government is set up? they're not going to get done. we're not going to have a medicare for all program in four years. that's not going to happen, and bernie knows it. i admire him for pushing this and trying to get us to tog more about those who are left behind in health care. this is about pragmatism versus inspirational, aspirational stuff. on guns, people are so frustrated and mad. this is what the republicans are missing. this is what donald trump is doing. he's committing political malpractice because everybody wants universal background checks, everybody, including nra members. the fact they can't do that, it's pushing everyone to say, well, we have to do even more because they can't even do the baby steps. because of the nra and donald trump being totally under their thumb. >> pat mccrory, mecklenburg county, background checks are probably popular among those republicans. so it feels that republicans have their own trap here. >> for example -- >> to win back suburban voters versus the base. >> the district nine race which the republicans just won, there was a charlotte base which was more moderate to liberal, and then the fayetteville base, the same district three hours away where trump campaigned and swung 2,000 votes talking about what republicans would consider extreme ideas on health care, on immigration, and now maybe on guns. so it's that blue-collar vote in the rural areas of states like missouri or north carolina that this could make the difference and trump is the one surrogate right now not just for presidential campaign but for future senate and house elections. and who are the surrogates for the democrats who are going to go out and spread this message that you're hearing in the democratic debate? >> donald trump motivates everybody to vote. >> we're going to see a lot of republican congressional candidates run against beto o'rourke's comments. >> absolutely they will. i think a lot, there are so many americans that it just really does epitomize what frustrates a lot of people about congress. and people who don't -- most people are not going to be the sort of congressional, you know, tacticians that the people around this table are, like senator mccaskill might not be. you're not going to see why it is it's so hard to get this done. all they can see is washington -- >> gets nothing. >> stands in the way and gets nothing done. >> i think that's the real frustration. it's nothing. >> up next, a drone attack on a major saudi oil production facility threatens to heighten tensions between the u.s. and iran. i'll ask the number three republican in the house, liz cheney, about that and much more when we come back. woman 1: i had no symptoms of hepatitis c. man 1: mine... man 1: ...caused liver damage. vo: epclusa treats all main types of chronic hep c. vo: whatever your type, ask your doctor if epclusa is your kind of cure. woman 2: i had the common type. man 2: mine was rare. vo: epclusa has a 98% overall cure rate. man 3: i just found out about my hepatitis c. woman 3: i knew for years. vo: epclusa is only one pill, once a day, taken with or without food for 12 weeks. vo: before starting epclusa, your doctor will test if you have had hepatitis b, which may flare up, and could cause serious liver problems during and after treatment. vo: tell your doctor if you have had hepatitis b, other liver or kidney problems, hiv, or other medical conditions... vo: ...and all medicines you take, including herbal supplements. vo: taking amiodarone with epclusa may cause a serious slowing of your heart rate. vo: common side effects include headache and tiredness. vo: ask your doctor today, if epclusa is your kind of cure. here, hello! starts with -hi!mple... how can i help? 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[ camera clicking ] wifi up there? -ahhh. sure, why not? how'd he get out?! a camera might figure it out. that was easy! glad i could help. at xfinity, we're here to make life simple. easy. awesome. so come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. welcome back. when president trump fired his third national security adviser this week, the hawks john bolton, one republican who was not happy was liz cheney. she exchanged in a sharp twitter exchange with rand ball. she said paul was a big loser who seemed to be terrorists first. she's considering a run for the senate seat being vacated by republican mike enzi next year in wyoming, and liz cheney, the number three republican in the house, joins me from rock springs, wyoming. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks very much, chuck. great to be with you. >> let me start with sort of a 30,000 foot look at the world right now. india and pakistan are warning of a nuclear confrontation over kashmir. turkey is poised to choose russia over nato, which it joined almost 70 years ago, and japan and south korea are in a trade war and have terminated their intelligence sharing pablth. these are allies i'm speaking of here. do you feel as if the globe is more stable with president trump as commander in chief now than it was three years ago? >> absolutely. there's no question. when you look at the situation that president trump inherited when he came into office, when you plook at what we had seen happen, for example, across iraq and syria, when president obama withdrew precipitously based on a political timetable, we had the rise of the caliphate, the rise of isis. president trump's decision making and leadership changed that. one of the most important things the president has done is dedicate the resources necessary to begin rebuilding our defense department, rebuilding our military. under barack obama, you had eight years where our military did not get the resources it needed, while our adversaries built, deployed, and in some cases now have weapon systems we cannot defend against. so there's no question, but that the world is safer. that we're in a situation where american leadership has come back. and it's important that we continue down that path. >> if america leadership has come back, why are india and pakistan closer to a hot war than they were before? why is japan and south korea -- that would be a situation, frankly, that i don't think any previous president would have allowed to fester the way it has festered. that's the type of things that you would wonder if maybe that's why we had so much trouble keeping a national security adviser. does none of this trouble you? >> look, first of all, well, first of all, with respect to ambassador bolton, you know, ambassador bolton has served his nation honorably in a number of positions, but this president, any president, has the right to have the people around him he decides. the only people who are elected in the west wing are the president and vice president. everybody else is staff. they serve at the pleasure of the president, the same with the cabinet officials. i think that's very important to point out. secondly, i would say there's no question but that the world is a very dangerous place. that america faces a very grave and complicated global threat environment. i think it's more dangerous than at any time since the end of world war ii. but the way in which we're responding to that, the way in which we're dealing with it, the extent to which, for example, president trump has been willing to walk away from dangerous deals, when he came into office, the united states was a party to the iran nuclear accords, the united states was a party to the inf treaty. both of those agreements were agreements that made us less safe. the inf treaty only restricted the united states because the russians cheated and it didn't restrict the chinese. the jcpoa, as we now know, the iranians have continued to cheat. will continue to cheat, and then of course, we saw this horrific attack yesterday. >> i want to ask about that. i'm curious, what should be our response to that in particular? and i say this because do you believe this came from yemen? or do you believe this was, and if it was iranian inspired or iranian directed, or the iranians did it. where are you on this? >> look, i think secretary pompeo's statements yesterday were absolutely right. it's very clear this was the iranians. >> do we need to provide proof? >> it's a very significant escalation. and i would say we ought to do several things. first of all, i would say we should deny the visas for the iranian delegates planning to come into the united states, come to new york next week for the u.n. general assembly. >> all of them, the president, the foreign minister, every one of them, ban them? >> absolutely. absolutely. secondly, i think as her first step as our new u.n. ambassador, kelly kraft, who is a terrific new u.n. ambassador, ought to offer a resolution for snapback sanctions to say listen, it's very clear the iranians because of a number of things we have seen recently, including the secret warehouse that the israelis found and ruvealed, where it's clear they have now begun and continue their enrichment activities, expanded their enrichment activity said. they're operating in total violation of the nuclear deem and we ought to have the sanctions snap back. when you have entities like the iranians, like the taliban, who continue to attack american interests, as the iranians are doing, who continue to kill americans, as we have seen in the case of both the irgc as well as the taliban and their ally, al qaeda, it's very important for us to send the message you have to choose. you can either do diplomacy or you can attack america and attack our interests, but we know you're not serious about diplomacy if you continue to have the kinds of attacks we have seen over the last few days. >> all right, the fact that you want to make sure they don't even get visas to attend the u.n., i know where you are on my next question, which is the idea of the president sitting down and talking with the iranians. that is -- it appears that the reason for the split between mr. bolton and mr. trump was over the idea of easing some sanctions in order to begin some talks with the iranians. do you think it's a mistake to talk to the iranians on any level? >> i think it would not be the right approach now, particularly, in the aftermath of the attacks we saw on the saudi oil facilities. i think that we've got a maximum pressure campaign on the iranians, that this administration has put in place that is absolutely working. and what we ought to be about right now is making sure the iranians understand that they're isolated. >> how is it working if they're -- sorry,int interrupting over satellite because it can sound ruder than it's intended to be, but the iranians are still -- are still now trying to make nuclear weapons, trying to do things faster. how is maximum pressure worked if they're actually -- if it's accelerating their efforts to get a nuclear weapon? >> look, the iranians have very clearly been feeling huge brunt of these sanctions. and i think that it's important for us to make sure they understand that they cannot have a nuclear weapon. that the world will stand against that. that they cannot -- you know, during when we were part of the iranian nuclear agreement, the iranians were doing all these things. there were no serious real verification measures in that agreement. remember, chuck, the iranians were -- they didn't have to reveal any of their past nuclear activity. they were even able to verify themselves at their military sites. what we know about what they've been doing we know in part because of what the israelis have done from an intelligence perspective, but the iranians have continued to foment and support terrorism across the globe. they have continued their ballistic missile development. they're in a position where these sanctions now that this president and this administration have put on are biting, hurting, they're feeling it. the people of iran you're seeing increasingly, the people of iran saying listen, we don't want part of this. we don't want to be a pariah state, and the iranians ought to understand and recognize we're not going to abide by an iranian nuclear weapon. we're not going to allow that to happen. you feed to come back to the table to negotiate. be strengthened. but we're not in the business of doing what barack obama did where he sent pallettes full of cash to the iranians to bribe them to come to the negotiating table. >> it sounds like you're speaking more stridently on this than president trump is. he does seem to be open to this. >> listen, you know, you may want to say that, but i think if you look at the way this president is operating, you look at the extent to which he was willing to walk away from this agreement, you look at secretary pompeo's statements from yesterday, i think particularly now in the aftermath of this attack, we have to be absolutely clear that the iranians are isolated and we're going to build an international coalition of support for putting back the sanctions that ought to be in place against them. >> let me asks about this rand paul business. and let me ask you to respond to it this way. washington examiner headline, liz cheney slams rand paul as supporting teterrorists. the writer is criticizing you for basically saying she should engage with senator paul on the merits of his idea, not slander him as pro-terrorism. it's using the words calling somebody pro-terrorist. do you admit that's a little overboard? >> look, i think if you look back at what senator paul has said over many, many years, he's very different from where president trump is on these issues. president trump puts america first. senator paul, whenever given the opportunity, blames america first. if you look at what he said about, you know, why we were attacked on 9/11, if you look at what he said, he's blamed america even for world war ii. president trump doesn't believe that. senator paul does. and look, i think fundamentally at the end of the day, this is about substance and policy, and senator paul tried to get elected president. he was able to get only less than 5% of the vote in the iowa caucuses. as you well know. his views are not views that are shared widely, certainly among republicans and among the american people as a whole, and they're dangerous views as well. >> are you running for the senate? >> pardon me? >> are you running for senate? >> i have not got any announcements to make this morning but i'll be sure to let you know. >> sounds like a thinking about it. as we go, thank you for joining us and sharing your views. i appreciate it. as we go to break -- >> thank you. >> a quick programming note. nbc news has created a new reporting unit that is dedicated to covering the environment. nbc, msnbc, telemundo, and nbc digital will be creating climate in crisis. weather events are causing more damage and more lives are being lost. climate change is costing trillions. when kwwe come back, why are so many politicians ignoring this fiscal problem. hiv controlling, joint replacing, and depression relieving company. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. great riches will find you when liberty mutual customizes your car from the insurance, born so you only pay for what you need. wow. thanks, zoltar. how can i ever repay you? 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>> i think that's a tough one. clearly, trump, there is the stand message was trump doesn't hold onto his national security advisers very long and, you know, you have we are on our third defense secretary, we are on our second secretary of state. we are now about to head to our fourth national security adviser. that's one message. but i think this is bolton. and everything is different when you're talking about john bolton because john bolton was viewed globally as a war hawk. i think you saw a huge sigh of relief around the world when he stepped down as national security adviser because it sort of removed that whole threat that we've all -- that a lot of people thought were going through about there's a war with iran right around the corner. that immediately went away. and so you see what just happened yesterday with saudi arabia. and there is a whole long -- there's a long list of reasons behind that. but at the end of the day, i think you can see iran starting to flex its muscle a little bit more. >> hally, how concerned is the white house that bolton will become a negative surrogate of sorts? >> he already has started to lay the groundwork for that. he was texting multiple reporters personally talking about his side of the story, if you will, and very publicly promising more to come from him. so he is going to be back on the scene in a way that, for example, h.r. mcmaster who is having conversations with the president again. but i will say this. you talk about how john bolton was seen as a hawk. also in the oval office. president trump knew that's who john bolton was. but there's a couple of things our sources tell us that that is right part of, chuck, as you alluded to, was this disagreement over iran and whether esanctions for president trump to meet with him to set up the conditions for a meeting. liz cheney the congresswoman says to you that the president has been very tough on iran. but look at what the president has said including, chuck, to you back when you interviewed him months ago said he would meet with rouhani. >> by the way, donald trump has not tweet birthday that issue this morning. he's been tweeting about a brett kavanaugh story that's in "the new york times." >> drones is the new warfare. this attack in saudi arabia using drones and a former member of homeland security advisory commission, i'm worried about homeland security now that the enemy is using drones. and we better bring that up for discussion from a defensive and offensive standpoint regarding both homeland security and the middle east. and also the presidential debate. it's going to be interesting in foreign, you can respond to this. how different are the democrats on trade and other foreign policy issues than the president right now versus maybe the divide might be in the republican party? be it be the cheneys. >> how do you pick a side between president trump and john bolton claire mccaskill? >> that's an open festering wound in the republican party between the liz cheneys of the world and others who are not as hawkish as cheney and bolton. on our side it's just we want to go back to the normal of taking care of our allies and joining forces with our allies and not being besties with inviting taliban to camp david or having putin. i just think that we will go back to -- if the democrats win, if a democratic nommie wins president, we will go back to the normal of taking care of our allies. >> there is a new book that's out about the confirmation process about brett kavanaugh. there is a new accusation. in this reporting, there is an indication that the fbi background check that was done on the second accuser, the woman from yale, it wasn't done completely now. that is -- there was always suspicion on your side of the aisle. you were in the senate then. what should democrats do now given this new information? >> i'm not sure honestly. that was such a mess. and what it did for those of us that were running, it crystallized how bad washington is. so if you were of washington at that moment, frankly, the party didn't matter as much as the fact that you were part of that mess. and the mess really occurred because the information that needed to be investigated came out so late. and then it looked like a kneecap. even though there were reason it's was late, i'm not sure good ones. but if the information had come out early, i think you could have seen a full-throated fbi investigation. but this isn't going away if the fbi never even bothered to talk to people surrounding this woman's allegation. >> and one thing, again, the president's tweeting about this, not about iran which is interesting. thank you, guys. that's all we have for today. i am running very late on time. thank you for watching. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." t week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." ♪ when you have diabetes, dietary choices are crucial to help manage blood sugar, but it can be difficult to find a balanced solution. try great-tasting boost glucose control. the patented blend of protein, fat, and carbs is part of a balanced formula that's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels. in fact, it provides 60% more protein than the leading diabetes nutrition shake and contains only 1 carb choice. enjoy the balanced nutrition of boost glucose control as part of a healthy diet. nyquifor your worst cold andrful relieflu symptoms, on sunday night and every night. nyquil severe. the nightime, sniffling, sneezing, coughing, aching, stuffy head, best sleep with a cold, medicine. doctor bob, what should i take for back pain? 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