0 talked about that he found later in my office. and it was tight -- it was handwritten, ready to be tightened up by, you know -- because of the charges against paw, i kept everything close in the civil case, it was danny in his office that was doing it, and i had that document prepared, handwritten in the neatest handwriting that i could make because a secretary other than mine, a paralegal other than mine was going to be the person who was going to put that financial information into the final document, and that's the document that mark ball talked about that he found on my desk whenever it was that he found it. so that was what was going to be -- if necessary, what was going to be used thursday. >> alec, the jury has heard about testimony of you stealing client funds. did you do that? >> i did, yes. >> did you steal or divert that farris fee away from the law firm? >> i did. >> how did you get in such a financial predicament that led you to steal money that wasn't yours? >> you know, i'm not quite sure how i let myself get where i got, but it came from, you know, i battled that addiction for so many years. i was spending so much money on pills. i got in a spot i couldn't -- >> what type of addiction are you referring to? >> my addiction is to opiate painkillers, specifically oxycodone, oxycontin. >> and when did you first become dependent or addicted to opioids? >> oxycodone or opiates in general? >> opiates in general. >> i'm not quite sure of the exact date, but i can give you a time frame. i hurt my knee really bad playing football in college, and i had a knee surgery, and the medical science at the time was such that the surgery didn't work. bottom line. so it just didn't last. within a couple of years from that, i started having a lot of knee trouble. ultimately i had a couple of surgeries but the last surgery i had i think was around 2002 or '04. i think it was around '04, so i would have started taking hydrocodone a couple of years ago before that, and i took hydrocodone, got addicted to that very quickly. i continued taking that for a long time. i would force myself off of it, wean myself off of it. i would go back to it. i battled that for a long time, and after a while i was taking so much of that, i moved on to oxycodone, and, you know, i'm guessing that was around -- that transition was around 2008, '09, something like that. it just escalates, escalates. >> did you receive treatment or go to detox on occasion? >> i did. >> how many times? >> that i went to detox or that i detoxed? >> well, let's start with going to a detox facility. >> i've been to a detox facility three times. >> when was first time? >> december of 2017. >> okay. and before december of 2017, had you tried to detox at home? >> i tried to detox every way i could. maggie would help me. >> when you went in to a -- was it an in-patient facility? >> the detoxes? the formal detoxes that i went to? >> in december of 2017. >> yes, it was in-patient, and all three formal detoxes that i've done have been at the same facility called sunrise detox in atlanta, georgia. >> the jury has heard an audio tape of a telephone conference with sled agents, is that where you were during that meeting? >> that's correct. the first time you went to the detox in atlanta, how long of a stay is that, did you stay? >> seven days is the opiate detox program. >> and is there a difference between detox and rehab? >> yes. >> what's the difference? >> detox is act of getting the drugs out of your system, getting to the point where, okay, there is no longer a physical dependency. and that's a big difference than the rest of the dependency, but the physical dependency is supposed to be gone after seven days. so in other words, i mean, there's so many things. opiate withdrawal is -- i mean, it's hard. but supposedly at the end of seven days, you don't have those physical symptoms, like i don't want to be too graphic, you're sick, you throw up, you have terrible diarrhea, you sweat like you're running a marathon. you can't hold your legs still. you can't lay down. what i'm talking about the legs moving, that goes away after about 24 hours. after 24 hours you can lay down again and maybe sleep some, but you sweat. you throw up. i mean, there's so many issues, but after seven days, those are supposed to be over. that's what detox is. the detoxification of your body. >> and what's rehab? >> rehab is the period that you go to learn how to stay off, you know, you supposedly are off after detox. rehab is where you get help staying off. >> and before september of 2021, had you ever gone to that second stage of rehab? >> no. >> so in december of 2017, how long did it take you to relapse once you got home from detox? >> not long at all. you're still going through -- though the physical dependency is gone, you're still so sick. you just -- >> is that something you've been battling for quite some time. >> as long as i can remember. how long have you been drug free, opioid free? >> 535 days, and i'm very proud of that. >> i want to ask you questions about labor day weekend, 2021. >> okay. >> do you remember being confronted by your law firm? >> sure i do. >> and what were you confronted about? >> stealing money. >> and did you admit your misconduct to your law partners? >> well, to one of my law partners, and my brother and law partner, danny and randy. yeah, i mean, i admitted it. >> they learned about a fake forge account, you made the fake forge account. >> yes, i did. and did you tell them about your opioid struggles, opioid addictions? >> i told them about my addiction, yes, sir. >> to your knowledge, were any of your law partners aware of your addiction? >> not just to my knowledge, i'm certain that they were not aware of my addiction. >> how would you characterize your opioid use or addiction, severe, moderate? >> then or now? >> no, in 2020, 2021? >> i mean, i don't know how i would have characterized it then. after going to rehab and learning just more of the things i've learned really talking to addicts about experiences. i will tell you my addiction was extremely, extremely bad. >> how were you able to function or were you able to function? >> yes, i was able to function. >> you were able to practice law? >> yes. >> and were you successful practicing law while you were addicted to opioids? >> on some level, yes, sir, i was successful. >> after you were confronted on labor day weekend 2021, did you resign or were you forced to resign from the law firm? >> absolutely. >> and then on saturday, september the 4th, do you remember what happened that day? >> saturday, september 4th, yes, sir, i remember. >> what happened? >> when i woke up? >> let's start after you met with chris wilson, did you meet with chris wilson? >> i met with chris wilson at my mom and dad's house in alameda. >> and did you lay it out for chris wilson, your opioid addiction and your misconduct? >> i definitely laid out my addiction. i definitely gave him some details about moneys that i had taken. i didn't give him -- we didn't go into all the details about all of it, but i certainly was very candid with him about the things that involved him. >> had you already contacted the detox facility before you met with chris wilson on the 4th? >> i believe that we had already -- at that point, i believe that we had already spoken to the guy that i knew from sunrise. and made arrangements for me to go there on monday. >> okay. and -- i know we had arrangements to go on monday, and i'm sure we had to have had it by then. i went to the hospital shortly after that, so yes. >> and did you reach out to get your insurance information? >> i did. >> and for what purpose? >> because i was going to use my insurance at detox and rehab to help pay for it. >> and what was your immediate plans after -- the day after you met with chris wilson, did you have plans to do anything, have any other meetings on that saturday? >> i wanted to go and meet with corey fleming who is another lawyer who was affected by the things i did. >> okay. and did you -- >> and a good friend. >> did you go meet with corey fleming in. >> no. >> what did you do instead? when i gave my pills to my brother, randy and danny, i think i gave them to randy, but i had taken -- i took a lot of pills because i knew i wasn't going to be taking anymore, so randy had my pills. i had to get some from him the night before but i only got a small amount. i could tell, you know, i wasn't taking anything near what i had been taking so i knew it was coming, and i called someone to bring me more pills, and before -- i believe before i met with chris wilson. >> did the person you called bring you more pills? >> you know, i don't know if he brought me more pills or not because by the time i met with him, after meeting with chris, and after, you know, the starting of the withdrawals, i changed my plan. >> and what was the change in plans? >> not to get pills from him anymore. and instead, i asked him to shoot me. >> did you ask him to shoot you as a sympathy ploy? >> as a sympathy ploy? >> no. >> what was the end goal that you wanted to accomplish? >> i meant for him to shoot me so i'd be gone. >> and who was this? who did you ask to do this? >> andy smith. >> and did he, in fact, shoot you? >> he did. >> and where was that located, not your gunshot, but where were you shot, in hampton county. >> hampton county, just right on the river. >> and why did you want to be gone? >> i mean, i knew all this was coming to a head. i knew how humiliating it was going to be for my son. i'd been through so much. at the time, in the bad place that i was, seemed like the better thing to do. i don't think that way now thankfully, but i did at the time. >> did you have life insurance on you? >> oh, yeah, i had a lot of life insurance. >> and who was the beneficiary? >> maggie was the beneficiary. >> how much life insurance did you have. >> i had $12 million. a $4 million policy and $8 million policy. a total of 12. >> did you ever have any life insurance on maggie? >> no, never. >> you ever have any life insurance on paul? >> no. alex, will you tell this jury about maggie and your relationship with her? >> i saw a picture. she was just as beautiful inside as she was outside. and she was so adventurous. i mean, you couldn't tell her something was good or bad. i mean, she wanted to find out for herself. she wanted to do it, see it, experience it, on her own, and form her own opinion. she was devoted. those two boys, buster, paul, me. i mean, she made sure we didn't want for anything ever. fun, playful, i mean, she had a laugh that, you know, you didn't even have to know what was funny, if you heard her laugh, you would laugh. you know, she had this little playful look where she'd smile at you, and bite her lip. i can't do it, but i mean, she would just do it, it would just melt you. you know, she was such a lady. such a feminine person. a girl. but then she had two boys. she didn't grow up in the swamp and in the country, riding four wheelers, and hunting and fishing. i mean, she changed everything. she -- i mean, she became a boy's mom. i mean, her life became ball and riding four wheelers and doing those things. now, don't get me wrong, she was still 100% girl, and you heard, she loved to do those things with her nieces, but, i mean, she threw herself into her boys' lives. she never took not working for granted. i mean, she -- i mean, she might not have worked, but i promise you, she worked, and she worked to make sure me and paul and buster had everything. you know, she wanted a big family, and pregnancy just didn't suit her. her pregnancies were so hard. i would leave her in the mornings and she'd be sick. i would come home and check on her, and she'd be sick. i'd come back at the end of the day, and she'd be sick. i mean, she was so sick all the time with both of those boys, and when we had pau-pau, maggie got in trouble, and pau-pau got in trouble. and because pregnancy didn't suit her, so we decided that, you know, we would just have the two boys, and you know, i just think how hard it was on her, made her love those boys so much more. and she did. but she was the kind of person, maggie, you know, she could put on the most elegant ball gown and go to the governor's mansion and hang out with, you know, the most affluent people, whatever, or she could come down to, you know, she could go to a food bank in hampton or walterboro and fit in, everybody at both places would say when she left, that maggie, she's a good one. she's just a special person. very special person. >> would you ever do anything to harm maggie? >> i would never hurt maggie. ever. >> will you tell the jury about paul, please, and your relationship with him. >> pau-pau was just the brightest -- he's the most inquisitive young man. he wanted to be a part of everything. if you were working, i can remember as a little boy, you would be working on something. it didn't matter what it was. his little head was going to come in there, nose in there to see what you were doing. he was a man's man. he was 100% country boy. he was tough. i mean he could hunt anything. he could catch any fish. he could run any piece of equipment. he could use any tool. i mean, he could do anything. at 22 years old, he could do so many things. i mean, he took care of so many, and he was so tough, but on the other hand, he had a side to him that was just so sweet. i mean, he wouldn't come home, but he wouldn't go check on his grandparents. he wouldn't go near summerville or out of his way, checked on his grandparents. you know, to be such a tough person, he would get all of his buddies and get on a boat and go watch a sunset. how many 22-year-old people you know do stuff like that. he was such a special boy. he cared about people. he was fiercely, fiercely loyal. he was so misrepresented in the media. i mean, never an accurate story told about what he was. and i will challenge you right now. i would challenge everybody in this room to go find somebody, somebody that new pau-pau, really knew him that did not have an ulterior motive that would say something negative about him. and i challenge everybody who can hear me now to do that. paul was that kind of person if you knew him. he would help you. and he would be glad to help you. you know, i thought mark ball made a good point when he said, you know, pau-pau might not have quite found his place yet. paul was adhd, and so he would jump around from thing to thing a lot. but there's absolutely no question in my mind whatsoever, that pau-pau would have found whatever that thing was that he was going to do, and whatever that ended up being, he was going to be one of the best at it. that you've ever known. i'll tell you one more thing. i didn't even know this when paul was alive. but -- excuse me. when they were doing his eulogy, i gave the names of some of his friends, and he had a real cute friend that they were just friends, but cute little girl maggie adored. i didn't know her very well. maggie did. maggie adored her, they talked to her, and pau-pau, we learned this from her, julianne, and at 22 years old, learned that pau-pau would tell his friends, be present. appreciate where you are, the things you have, and the people around you. i think a lot of that came from it hurt paul so bad when mallory died, but how many 22 year olds do you know that think that way. be present. appreciate things around you. at 22 years old. he's the most special boy. >> do you love paul? >> did i love him? like no other. he and buster. >> do you love maggie. >> more than anything. i love maggie, i remember the first time we went out. >> did you kill maggie. >> no, i did not kill maggie. i did not kill paul. i would never hurt maggie, and i would never hurt paul ever under any circumstances. >> thank you. >> gentlemen, we'll take a -- excuse me, judge. >> we'll take a ten minute recess, please do not discuss the case. a ten minute recess, please do not discuss the case >> so we are taking a ten-minute recess. i'm katy tur, you're joining us at 3:28 p.m. alex murdaugh, accused of killing his wife and son in a murder that happened in june of 2021, and the big bomb shell that we saw today besides the fact that he took the stand was that the very first thing he said was that he admitted to lying to police and investigators, and pretty much everybody else for 20 months, lying over and over again about where he was on the night of the murder. lying until today when he admitted on the stand, under oath, that he was, in fact, at the dog kennels where his wife and son were murdered, minutes before prosecutors say they were murdered but he says he did not do it. he's adamant about that. joining me now is civil rights attorney and former brooklyn prosecute, charles coleman, and msnbc legal analyst, lisa reuben. charles, you and i were talking as we were watching this, and this is a case we haven't covered on the show. it's unusual for somebody to take the stand in their own defense in a murder trial like this, and it seems like he was doing it against the wishes of his own defense team. >> right. >> so how is he doing? this decision that he has made for himself, how is it playing out? >> i would say it's not playing out well, and unfortunately lawyers can be some of the most difficult clients, and i say that because -- >> murdaugh is a lawyer. >> yes, and in many cases, we as lawyers think we can walk into this space, and because we've been in that space before, we think we understand it. we can operate from a different perspective, that of being a witness, a defendant, and that's not always true. there are all sorts of different factors that you don't face as a lawyer, that you can't necessarily prepare someone for. the other side to that is when you are an attorney to someone, regardless of whether that person is a lawyer or not, you know what it is they're going to say. you know explanations they have with regard to questions you anticipate being asked. when you hear those responses and answers from your client, and you realize, you know what, this doesn't sound right, this doesn't add up, you will likely tell that client, listen, i don't think this is a good idea, in this case, i think alec murdaugh decided i know what's best for me. >> prosecutors say the motive he wants to distract from the financial troubles he had. his son paul had gotten in trouble because he was driving a boat under the influence and a girl on that boat died and in that after math, the family of the girl was suing or is suing alex murdaugh and his financial history would have been revealed. their argument is that he was trying to distract, gain sympathy, and that's why he ended up killing both his wife and son. they're talking about his finances and the problems he was having with his finances. he's blamed opioid use, his addiction to opioid for the problems that he had with his finances. admitting that he stole money from his law firm and clients. is that going over well? >> it's one of the plays they have. i'm not in love with that as a motive. it's a reach in terms of saying, look, to create a distraction from these problems, he decided to murder his child and wife. i think that's a bit of a stretch. i'm not in love with it. but i think the defense is doing a good job of addressing what prosecutor haves put out regarding his opioid addiction, regarding his financial situation as a means of basically dispelling the notion that he would have gone that far to try to commit a murder in order to distract. so that's something they have to do. i expected them to take the approach they have. so i'm not surprised there. i just don't know how effective it will be. >> you have an issue with the defense questioning and the level of detail they went into with regards to his opioid abuse and detoxing from opioids, what was that? >> when alex murdaugh was asked how long he's b