That guy being the president. What trump claims is what matters to the embassy. Its not about the truth. Its about guiliani and trump need to say to get them through the night. Trump never stops, does he . This is sought on the very existence of truth proves it. Hes gone out to trash every institution or principle to save himself from impeachment. To keep the fib football off his trail, he urged them to go easy on a possible witness and ended up firing the fbi director altogether tom keep the Justice Department off his back, he will again and again bully the attorney general to turn it away from him. To get a top witness from testifying against him, hes urged the jury in the Paul Manafort case which is still sitting to acquit him. From intimidation of the fbi and badgering the department that oversees him, donald trump and guiliani have gone down a trail of legal obstruction in broad daylight. Now hes got his lawyer keeping him, donald trump from being questioned on the grounds that truth objective truth doesnt even exist. Im not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury. When you tell me that you know he should testify because hes going to tell the truth and he shouldnt worry remember thats so silly. Its somebodys version of the truth. Not the truth. He didnt have a conversation i dont mean to go no, it isnt truth. Truth isnt truth. Objective reality extended to that Infamous Trump tower meeting in june of 2016. The meeting was originally for the purpose of getting information about clinton the meeting turned into a meeting which in itself is attempted collusion. You just said it. No its not. The meeting was intendsed to get dirt on Hillary Clinton from a lawyer. You just said it. That was the original intention, it turned out to be a meeting about another sun. S the not pursued at all. Okay, any meeting with regard to getting information on your opponent is something any candidates staff would take. If someone said i have information about your opponent, you would take that meeting. If it happens to be from the from the russian government . She didnt represent the russian government. Shes private citizen. I dont even knew if they knew she was russian at the time. That denial that had something to do with the russian government is directly contradicted by emails donald trump jr. Received in trump tower, which he was told he would be meeting quote with a russian government attorney as a part of russia and its government support, its all in the record. Its related in an interview with reuters, President Trump echoing Rudy Guilianis comments at a sit down could lead to a perjury trap saying even if i am telling the truth that makes me a liar, trump said, thats no good. What is he talking about in trump said hes chosen not to be involved in the investigation, telling White House Correspondent jeff mason, ive sided to stay out. Now, i dont have to vai out. As you know, i can go in and i could, do whatever, i could rin it. Trump is asserting he could run the investigation of donald trump. This is looney tunes. Im i am joined by republican strategist michael schmidt, eugene robinson, and a White House Correspondent for pbs news hour. Why dont we go in the order of your faces there, what is rudy talking about, he could be running the investigation, himself, this is the newest as Rudy Guiliani denied such a thing as objective truth. Rudy went i believe to the manhattan college, one thing you learn in Catholic School is a lot of philosophy. Lot of time trying to figure out the meaning of truth and the objective truth and a total commitment to the idea there is such a thing as truth. Im sure owl religions believe this. Certainly his did. How can rudy walk out and say there is no such thing as objective truth f. My guy says something its just as good as anybody else. Thats what he asserted with chuck todd yesterday. Your thoughts. Its true Rudy Guiliani went from a world class tleerd a second rate apalestinian tis in following donald trump thats what he is doing that will make donald trump happy. He is trying to muddy the waters. This was a career prosecutor, his career was launched being a prosecutor, Rudy Guilianis to hear him say that and twist himself up and not get the facts out either because he didnt know or didnt remember, or because he chose to lie, is so disheartening, especially for me, someone who worked in the administration, someone who learned to love government because i served in his administration. He is he is now supporting a government that i have no respect for, meaning donald trump and his administration. You may peck up on this, two things here just jump at you. One is the denial of objective truth. Which is the essence of everything. By the way, just to remain everybody, as if they need a message of philosophy. If somebody tells you the movie starts at 7 00 and it start at 7 30. One persons right. If somebody says the capital of japan is something else, i dont know what. Its tokyo. There is only one right answer. There is a thing such as objective truth. If they had a tape recording they had with mueller, im sorry with comey about what to do with flynn, then we know the objective truth. So there is a search for it. Its not an apparent persons penalties against another. Thats what rudy is now saying. The idea that Rudy Guiliani is saying truth is truth is directly related to the fact that Kellyanne Conway said there are alternative fact. This is an administration that wants to create its own version of truth. Have millions of people believe what they tell them. As a result theyre laying this why would you deny what Everybody Knows when theyre a kid when you try not to fib when are you threeyearsold, five or six at least. Why would somebody say there is no such thing as the truth or not truth in. If the Mueller Investigation says you in fact broke the law, heres the evidence. Can you say their version of the truth is actually not the truth. Our version of the truth, theyre doing this to get ahead of any sort of indictment, criminal charges, any sort of problems that the president or the people around him might have when it comes to the legality of things. Speaking of a crazy world, trump is saying he could run the trump investigation. Yeah. He told that to reuters. What does he mean . Some sweeping notion of executive power . Well, his idea of xk testify power is he can sweep in, fire sessions, rosenstein. Arrest omarosa. Exactly, arrest omarosa. Send people to the tomb. He can do whatever he wants. He can shut down any investigation, run it, turn it into an investigation of Hillary Clinton somehow and the dirty democrats, whatever. He says omarosa is not smart. Hes not as confident as he once was, these claims are absurd. He always makes outside claims. Hes always done that, made outside claims on their face kind of relick discuss. It does seem to be getting worse. He seems to be bouncing off the walls. One thing we saw, smr i in Rudy Guilianis remarks is how it is to keep the story toke to keep it all straight in his head, so he flat out the meeting was to get dirt on hillary, oh, was i supposed to admit that . Even they didnt know that she was russian. We fortunately have the press. Rudys meet the press interview came one day after this weekend, without downu counsel don mcghan, a weeklong twitter tirade. Trump referred to the disgrace to discredit bob mueller and the whole group of angry democrat thugles. He says they are looking to impact the elect. He wrote the failing New York Times wrote a fake piece food implying white House Counsel, he spells it with a c, he must be a john dean type rat. But i allowed him and all others to test i dont have to. I have nothing to hide. His participation with mueller may present a problem with mr. Trump and his legal team. Namely, they dont know what he told pros securities. It was a grate, it was like pulling the table off the silverware, you probably it. 30 hours of testimony. At least. Trump did not know the extent of this. He thought he sees lawyers as people that fix his problems. The idea of a white House Counsel is a hard one for him to understand, someone that represents the institution. You mean an honest guy . He thought mcghan would say, mueller, heres why the president did nothing wrong as if he was a defense laws, explaining to him. I dont think he appreciated the fact na mcghan was going in as a public servant. To answer questions about a detailed investigation in an open ranging way. What does this weve always suggest, anybody can get in here, all the information, the thing is, weve always guessed what was in that incredible what i call the iceberg of what he knows. I mean, you guys know a lot of the big papers. He knows a lot. Im going to sub to you on this it seems to me if he had 30 hours with the president s own lawyer sitting in the room with trump, his white house lawyer, he knows a lot to fill in the blanks here of his case against the president. Heres something that was most remarkable about michaels reporting. The fact that you reported that don mcgman went in there with his own lawyer and realized he did not want to be the person to be the scapegoat. That dove tails with sources that say people that work in the white house were very worried about what legal impact being in the presence of all this might have on them, as a result theyve hired lawyers to protect themselves. So 30 hours of testimony, i have no idea what he said the idea that he knows that much and the idea that he had his own lawyer that he would be protected tells you he was worried about what he had to say. There were so many hours, remember the scenes of world war ii, they are point at the enemy, you got cohen talking, manafort potentially talking, flynn definitely talking. You got mcghan talking, now probably omarosa talking. All these informations coming in, trump planning to play defense. I think there are probably more. There are other people talking, talked to that we dont know about, probably. You know, i think one thing that mueller has, just strictly from mcghan, that he would have that he otherwise wouldnt have in this forum is probably, surely, a detailed very accurate time line involving various decisions, meetings, conversations, that could go into an obstruction case. We dont have a sense of what he might have had to say that can go into a collusion or a conspiracy case. We dont know that there was nothing. We dont know, we dont know we heard beforehand, your thoughts about the way that the president is behaving, just the way hes behaving, flying out with this stuff like there is no such thing as truth or i could be running the investigation. Its wild. I think in a certain era, well, we never know much about mental conditions of anybody, maybe, you would think the guy is losing hess control of any notion of objective reality. I said this before, hes like an animal backed into a corner an hes just scrapping to find out. Lets not forget, we all learned this from that great reporting on saturday and yesterday. Robert mueller has had this information for a much longer period of time. So who knows what hes discovered based on those interviews. And i think thats the thing that has the president really bouncing off the walls right now and just raging is that he doesnt know who to truth. He doesnt know who has spoken to mueller. Now hes concerned at what level. He doesnt know who has tapes. We know that cohen, his lawyer has tapes, cohen, we know that omarosa has tapes. There was theres a lot of tames out there. That i think scares the president the missouri i think he sits there racking his brain, what have i said to whom over the last two years. Rudy cant help with this tape. He came one this nonsense about there is no subjective truth. Tapes brought down nixon, all the arguing in the world didnt stop that, great reporting again, gene, your wisdom amazing me sometimes. Anita. Amish you are so young and brilliant. Its an amazing time. This is a crazy time to be covering a president who is acting like this guy is acting, like he doesnt want to deal with the new reporting on the investigation in trumps former fixer Michael Cohen while the jury continues delivering the fate of the former Campaign ChairmanPaul Manafort. Theyre still meeting the jury for a third day. Trump seems to be sweating the case, whats he got to be worried about . Plus, sherry brown of ohio joins me for a state that went for donald trump by 8 points in 2016. How are democrats going to win back those voters in 2018, this november and next time a question i keep asking and the rhetoric from trump world soundsdown downright or wellian, doesnt it . Also, john brennan is considering taking the president to court over security clearance being revoked. Finally, let me finish with the failure of the Republican Party to show any backbone, this is hardball, where the action is. P s into making our thinnest longest lasting blades on the market. Precision machinery and highquality materials from around the world. Nobody else even comes close. Its about delivering a more comfortable shave every time. Invented in boston, made and sold around the world. Order now at gilletteondemand. Com. Gillette. The best a man can get. Heres something you should know. Theres a serious virus out there that 1 in 30 boomers has, yet most dont even know it. A virus thats been almost forgotten. Its hepatitis c. Hep c can hide in the body for years without symptoms. Left untreated it can lead to liver damage, even liver cancer. The only way to know if you have hep c is to ask your Healthcare Provider for the simple blood test. If you have hep c, it can be cured. For us, its time to get tested. Its the only way to know for sure. Theres new reporting tonight on don mcghans cooperation with robert mueller. The white House Counsel does not believe he implicated trump in legal wrongdoing in special counsel interviews. His attorney tells president s legal team in recent days. Apparently they covering for him. Well be right back. Whats going on . Oh hey thats it . Yeah. Thats it . Everybody two seconds dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance. Through the Tuition Assistance program, every day mcdonalds helps more people go to college. Its part of our commitment to being americas best first job. You shouldnt be rushed into booking a hotel. With expedias addon advantage, booking a flight unlocks discounts on select hotels until the day you leave for your trip. Addon advantage. Only when you book with expedia. But prevagen helps your brain with an ingredient originally discovered. In jellyfish. In clinical trials, prevagen has been shown to improve shortterm memory. Prevagen. Healthier brain. Better life. Welcome back to hardball. If tweets are any cakes the president seems to be worried about potential legal threats from two former employees. First the New York Times reports the president s former attorney, there he is, personal fixer, Michael Cohen is under investigation now for potential tax and bank fraud surrounding more than 20 million in loans obtained by taxi businesses he and his family owned. Federal prosecutors are looking to whether cohen violated cane finance laws to hush money to women who said they had affairs with trump, convincingly, i must say the New York Times reports cohen has hinted publicly and has stated explicitly and in private that he is eager to tell prosecutor what is he knows in exchange for leniency. This comes as a jury in alexandria, virginia, he is facing charges of bank and tax fraud. Both cohen and manafort have insider knowledge of trump campaigns and his operation. It could be valuable the special counsel, if they were to cooperate to get some time off. I am joined by a former prosecutor and a former u. S. Attorney, thank you all. You all have been thinking about this case as we have been covering it. I want to go to cynthia, then to barry. When you look atcoen, the guy is not a nice guy, he comes across as sympathetic. Hes sad, hes going down. If you are an attorney, are you thinking of a partner, copping a plea to mueller . He has these huge charges in terms of bank fraud and failure honestly to pay taxes and to report Campaign Expenditures the whole bang . Hes going to have to make a deal. He has nowhere else to go. Hes pushed himself away from trump. He doesnt have the same flexible, trump cant pardon him. He potentially has state charges. Ill tell you what hes got that manafort doesnt have. He has relationships and deals with trumps kids. He can, if he can give the prosecutor something on trumps kids, now youve got a Pressure Point that is very different from what manafort can do. That is pressure on the president . Yeah. Do you share the last thing he wants to come into the president s is, run, serve for a year and bottom lean in family terms put his kids in jail . Hes not going to put his kids if jail. Thats the only redeeming quality of the guy. He would give up the presidency to free them . Yes. Is that a deal you can make . I dont know, it depends on what hes done. Can you cut a law saying,oi know a guy you could promise never to run or Office People resign, the prosecutions are dropped. Mueller can make whatever deal he wants. He has a lot of power. You are walk, you give up the presidency . Maybe. But thats whats different about cohen and somebody else. Lets talk about manafort. Barry, manafort is looking at huge time. Which dont know what that jury is up to. Im shooir sure, im not a laws, i said eight million times, you think, are you representing manafort, but hes facing serious time. If he does get a hung jury, how does that change thing . Because theyre three days in now. First of all i dont think being three days in is a critical amount of time this jury has been a