Transcripts For MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews 20150618

Transcripts For MSNBCW Hardball With Chris Matthews 20150618

20yearold roof walked into the bible study, sat among the members for nearly an hour and then transformed the place of worship into a nightmare. He asked for the pastor wheres the pastor . They showed him where the pastor was. He sat next to my cousin, reverend reverend Clementa Pinckney throughout the entire bible study. She said he reloaded five different times. Her son was trying to talk him out of doing the act of killing people. And he just said i have to do it. He said you rape our children and youre taking over our country and you have to go. A man identifying himself as roofs uncle told a producer late today that the alleged shooter has made their life a living hell. He said we didnt see this coming, we had no clue. Andly say this i hope he gets whats coming to him. They got his ass now. Not only has he destroyed nine peoples lives and his own, hoose dree steroid his whole family. I hope he gets whats coming to him. We woke up today and so we have some grieving to do. And weve got some pain we have to go through. Parents are having to explain to their kids how they can go to church and feel safe and thats not something we ever thought wed deal with. Having said that we are a strong and faithful state. We love our state, we love our country and most of all we love each other. President obama bore the burden of the nations consoler. Any death of this sort is a tragedy. Any shooting involving multiple victims is a tragedy. There is something particularly heart heartbreaking about a death happening in a place in which we seek solace and we seek peace. In a place of worship. While the president struck an emotional tone in that address, by one count this is the 14th time hes had to address the country after a violent shooting. Ive had to make statements like this too many times. Communities like this have had to endure tragedies like this too many times. We dont have all the facts, but we do know that once again, innocent people were killed in part because someone who wanted to inflict harm had no trouble getting their hands on a gun. Craig melvin is in charleston right now. Thanks so much for coming on tonight. Youve been covering this story. Give us a sense of perhaps what we cant see or havent heard on television, what it like down there where its happened. You know chris, when i got here this morning shortly after the suspect was apprehended in shelby north carolina, you can almost sense this palpable sigh of relief. There had been a number of folks who gathered on the corner. Were go a block away from mother emanuel where the shooting happened last night. This is a community that has been dealing with a great deal lately. As you know the Walter Scott Shooting. Just less than two months ago. Thats not three, four miles from where we stand right now. So charleston has had a lot to deal with but it has been reassuring to see and hear from so many folks who insist that this city is going to bounce back like it always has. And the church as well. Church leaders are adamant that not on will they bounce back but they will be worshipping in that sanctuary on sunday. Theres a vigil that is set to take place starting at 8 00 eastern at a nearby church were told thats going to be an interdenominational vigil. Folks will gather there will be words and prayers and then they are going to march to mother emanuel and lay flowers down in front of the church in a show of solidarity in this community, chris. You know why dont you react to what im thinking im with jay robinson and hell be talking in a minute. It not like a police abusing their authority in a violent way. The reaction doesnt seem like something that will cause rioting or looting. It seems like a different kind of wound in our society. The person who did it did it. We didnt all do it. But theres Something Like this that comes of us. Look at this kid. I mean i dont know how you can get that angry at this kid. Its like who is this idiot . And whose parents does he have . And what did he watch on television . Where has he been getting this stuff from . And yet we know this racism this hatred and bitter White Supremacy is still around i guess in the air somewhere. Hes got some apartheid arab emblems on him, something from rhodesia on him. Its a strange kind of wound. What do you make of it . Chris, ill tell what you it feels like in a lot of ways. I was at newtown several years ago and i remember being there in connecticut and talking to folks and you just got the sense that this was just one of those things that are off limits. I think weve probably become desensitized unfortunately to a great deal but this this is not certainly that was fathomable to a lot of folks. Heres the thing, not only did he, you know shoot up the church heres a guy who according to folks who were inside the church he sat with the parishioners for 45 minutes to an hour, presumably praying with them maybe reading the bible, doing who knows what sitting next to the pastor at the end of this Prayer Service on wednesday night, thats when he stands up, he opens fire and he has to reload five times. I mean this was clearly, clearly something that was planned, clearly something that was premed fated overitated over the next few days and week well learn more about the suspect. We do know there was a drunk charge earlier this year, a trespassing charge at a mall about two hours from here m columbia, he started the ninth grate in high school he had to repeat the ninth grade. We have not been able to verify whether he finished high school. There had been some contact with family members earlier today who perhaps understandably did not want to answer questions today. What would motivate someone to be this angry and this filled with hate and rage to walk into the church . Six women, three men, three of the nine victims were over the age of 70. There was an 87yearold woman shot dead in a church. Thats unthinkable. Thanks craig melvin. Youre understanding as best i can understand anything these days. Mourners gathered at a prayer vigil in charleston where South Carolina congressman jim clyburn delivered a message of resilience. Here he is. This church our church is built from the rock. And no messenger, no act will ever destroy the foundation of this church. Congressman James Clyburn, i respect you so much for what youve been through and here this comes, these older people getting killed by this premeditated decision by someone who walk into getting the welcome of the Church Taking that welcome and using it to kill people including the pastor. Well, thank you so much for having me. You know this community has responded to this tragedy in a way that should make all of americans proud. Last night we saw the police chief not hesitating to call this crime what it was and it is a hate crime. The mayor of the city responding in a way that allowed an atmosphere to be created. Today at the vigil, all of the participants conducted themselves in such a way as to say to this perpetrator and any of his sympathizers that might be out there, that we are not going to allow the Foundation Upon which this country, this community and the church is built to be rocked by this kind of behavior. So im very proud of the way things are transgressing and i would hope that everybody would see this as a galvanizing moment for all of us to come together and find the good that can come out of this evil act. There is some good that can come out of it and im hopeful that this community will move forward achieving that good. Thank you very much congressman James Clyburn of South Carolina. Before his death, pastor Clementa Pinckney had described his church as a beacon for america. Many of us dont see ourselves as just a place that we come and worship but as a beacon and as a bearer of the culture and a bearer of what makes us a people. But i like to say that this is not necessarily unique to us. Its really what americas all about. Eugene robinson is a columnist with the washington post. He grew up in South Carolina. This is so close to you. Yeah it is. I grew up in orangeberg but we have family in charleston. Thats where my mothers side of the family is from. My great, great grand great great grandfather had a place not far from there. Its a very Prominent Church big, high steeple, founded in the 1816 by people of color and for enslaved africanamericans to worship. One of the founding members of denmark veissi who organized would what would have been the biggest slavery volt in the history had it gone off. It was discovered the day before. He was captured and executed as were 34 35 other people and angry white mobs burned the church down. In retribution. It was rebuilt but then a law was passed outlawing black churches in South Carolina in 1834. How did that square with the First Amendment . Not very well. 1864 and 1865 the congregation had to worship in secret. It was clandestined and could only resurface and rebuild in 1865. The original building after the burning came down in an earthquake in i think the 1880s, that building dates to 1891. And its a magnificent building. Huge beautiful sanctuary with stain glass window. They were in the middle of a Fundraising Campaign to build an elevator for the church because an obvious problem for older parishioners just to get up into the sanctuary because its on a do you think this is like a purposeful location for a crime like this, a mass murder . Remember the guy who shot his way into the Holocaust Museum . He absolutely chose the highest profile back church. He chose the pastor Clementa Pinckney who is a very prominent not just clergyman but political figure in charleston. He was making a statement. By the way, that name pinckney the name pinckney comes from a plantation owner who was a signer of the declaration of independence. Sure charles. Charles pinckney. Thats how slaves got their name. Exactly. Im willing to bet that the pinckneys were here a lot longer than the roofs. Someone at nbc in washington said why is this considered a crime of terrorism . Hes basically saying black americans go away. Look i doesnt consider it a crime of terrorism. I consider it an abomination. Im not passing angry yet. Theres more than a whiff of White Supremacy in the air. Its still a stench. Its fainter than it used to be but its there. And somehow he breathed it in. He was in an environment in which, you know this became meaningful to him. So how did that happen . And how did he get the gun . Ive seen it reported that he was given the gun by a parent a father perhaps, someone gave him a gun, knowing that he was a troubled kid. So why do you give him a gun . You heard president obama speaking almost with resignation about guns. Yes. So thats what i wrote about for tomorrows paper. I wrote about guns. It is what all these incidents have in common. I dont know how to stop hatred i dont know how to stop mental illness, but we do know how to restrict peoples ability to get guns. We know how to do that but we wont. We dont. Someone was saying today on i think one of the networks that people should have guns in church so they should defend themselves. What do you have to holster up put your gun on to go to church . Thats odd. Anyway, i do think you gotting is on you got something on the atmospherics. I thought when kennedy was killed down in dallas that time in 63, i thought it was an atmosphere there even though he was a man on the left and i was on the right, it was atmospheric. Eugene robinson will stay with us. Coming up where did he get his idea about africanamericans and raping and all that stuff that took him to that church last night . When we come back well talk about motives and whats likely to happen to this guy, dylann roof if hes convicted. Our coverage of the charleston massacre continues after this. So why would you invest without checking brokercheck . Check your broker with brokercheck. Put your hand over your heart. Is it beating . Good then my nutrition heart health mix is for you. Its a wholesome blend of peanuts, pecans and other delicious nuts specially mixed for people with hearts. Planters. Nutrition starts with nut. The suspected shooter in the charleston massacre will appear at a bond hearing tomorrow. Well be right back with new details on the suspect in the shooting last night in South Carolina, who he was, what made him do what he did and whats going to happen to him if hes convicted . Our coverage continues after this. Philips sonicare leaves your mouth with a level of clean like youve never felt before. Innovation and you. Philips sonicare. Ive been drivin a lincoln since long before anybody paid me to drive one. I didnt do it to be cool. I didnt do it to make a statement. I just liked it. Lease an mkc for 329 a month plus competitive owners and lessees get 500 bonus cash, only at your lincoln dealer. I like my seafood like i like my vacations tropical. And during red lobsters island escape, three new dishes take me straight to the islands. Like the ultimate island seafood feast, with crab, lobster and jumbo shrimp. All you have to do. Get here while you still can. This is unfathomable and an unspeakable act by somebody filled with hate and with a deranged mind. In charleston to have a horrible hateful person go into a church and kill people there to pray and poreworship with each other is something that is beyond incomprehensible. Welcome back to hard ball. As the mayor of charleston just said the actions of dylann roof are beyond comprehension. Was he crazy, is he crazy or just very angry . Deranged . What is it . Where did he get theseye ideas about testimonies and why did he sit in church with them for an hour before gunning them down . Im joined by San Bernardino and a former state prosecutor. You look at the aggravating factor multiple murders, kidnappings, how many apply here . There are several that might apply. One is possible kidnapping depending on how the facts develop and what he told people inside the church. Probably the best one is the most applicable is the fact that he killed a number of people nine people. Multiple murder like this in this situation, thats the main one Going Forward. Thewhats the prevalence of the Death Penalty down in your state . South carolina uses the Death Penalty quite frequently. Our last execution was about a year or two ago, but the population tends to short the Death Penalty, prosecutors tend to be for it. I think its very likely youll see a Death Penalty prosecution in this case. And you have the chair and you have lethal injection, right . Yes. It only lethal injection, is that it . The way it works on the execution is that the jury and the jury alone will have to make the decision whether life or death is appropriate after hearing all the evidence so the jury will actually make the decision, if it comes to that if they convict him and i cant imagine they wont. But if they do the jury will make the decision not the judge. Okay. A photo of dylann roof from his Facebook Page show as young man posing with two distinct patches, one is a flag of the apartheid of south africa and the or is the flag of rhodesia. How do you look at it now . Theyve got the guy, they have the suspect. Before i answer i just remember what Bobby Kennedy said. You idolized him, too. Where he wrote about violence and lawlessness and racial division. He said lets dedicate ourselves to what the greeks wrote so many years ago, to tame the savages of man and make gentle the life of this world, let us dedicate ourselves to that. Thats something that it just hit me just interview after interview today, when is it going to stop . With regard to your question though and thank you for letting me just entertain that. He not on can face the Death Penalty under South Carolina law. There are at least two federal statutes he can face the Death Penalty for. One is the code that deals with church arsons. If you kill someone while theyre exercising their religious belief you can get the Death Penalty under federal law. Also under the hate crime act when i was enacted in 2009 and became operable in 2010 for intentionally selecting his victims on the basis of race he can get the Death Penalty for that. So hes in deep trouble. The on thing that i could think could possibly save this miscreant would be an establishment of legal insanity but i think theres going to be a tough time for that because he premeditated with these folks, he planned, he was there for an hour and it seems to me that he at least had evidence conscious of knowing right from wrong and knew the consequences of what he was doing. How do you respond to all that . Do you think it likely the federal authorities will claim him as a defendant, rather than allow the state authorities to take up a murder case about him. If i had a better the state hats far more experience here. We do carry out executions and it did happen in downtown charleston. There is a federal angle here but clearly hes very much in the clutches of state law right now. Theres just no question about it. The at gra vating circumstances are clear. It looks like Going Forward this is going to be a mental state case this is going to be about psychiatry and psychiatrists. He may not be insane but the Supreme Court of the United States has bent over backwards and properly so i think in general, to allow people who are subject to the Death Penalty to present every. So we know who did this. The answer to the question does it involve some kind of mental disease or disturbance or some kind of organic disorder . Thats the only way they have to go here. Look the unabomber, we have the aurora shooter at the movie theater. And sanity is a very difficult threshold to reach. And neither the unabom

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