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out there of joe biden and his son and ukraine without getting into details about what he did when talking to the president of ukraine. >> in terms of what he did, bob, former fbi double agent naveed jamali had a different take on this complaint, saying this whistle-blower may have just been concerned that they were being asked to break the law. here's what he said, naveed. here it is. >> i think this is beyond just the phone calls. i think most likely there was a follow-up action or actions that were meant to reinforce this push to get ukraine to help him. i don't think that the person saw the transcript of the phone call, was in the room with the president, rather, i think it's more likely that they were involved in actually the subsequent action. this could be something as simple as this person got this order, they were ordered to act on this specific thing, and they were concerned about breaking the law. but i think it was also much more practical, which was they probably didn't want it go to jail. >> how plausible is this? what are your thoughts on this? >> i think it's an interesting

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