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of spying. it happened after they breached a u.s. military base in september. the times reports american officials believe at least one of the chinese officials was an intelligence officer operating under diplomatic cover. the group, which included the officials wives, evaded military personnel pursuing them and stopped only after fire trucks blocked their path. here is the author of how to catch a russian spy and former intelligence officer navid jamali. first things first, what were the chinese officials looking for? well, that s a very good question. at a minimum, you know, one of the things they can do is just collect what we call trons. you can go out there and just things that are in the airwaves, whether it s signals, information. just driving on base with or near a base, in fact. when i was in the military we had instances where foreign nationals come up to the fence line and would either with a
let s bring in our panel. joining me now, david korn, author of russian roulette, maria teresa kumar, malcolm nance, author of the new book the plot to betray america, john harwood of cnbc, and navid jamali, author of how to catch a russian spy. i m going in reverse order, naveed. how unusual would it be for ambassador to the eu or any ambassador, to call the president of the united states on an insecure cell phone, and what security implications might there be of him placing such a call to the white house? it s completely out of, you know, out of norms, out of standards. but that s not surprising, joy. and i think look, you have to assume that if you re using a public, you know, cell phone, that any nation state can probably intercept that call and record it. and there have been cases in the past where the russians specifically have gone on to use those calls and release them to
it s a partisan whistleblower. shouldn t even have information. i ve had conversations with many leaders that are always appropriate. have you read the complaint? no. i just tell you it is, everybody has read it, they laugh at it. president trump taking on the whistleblower who filed a complaint about the president s communication with a foreign leader. the washington post reports that complaint involves ukraine. let s dig deeper with a former fbi double agent, navid jamali is the author of how to catch a russian spy. great to have you here. who could this whistleblower be, given the people who have access to the content of the president s phone calls with foreign leaders? what s your best guess? i don t think that the whistleblower is blowing the whistle because specifically of
criminally speaking? first, the statute i m referring to, title 18 of the u.s. code, actually says it could be direct or indirect. so alex, if i ve got the ability to give you a ton of cash, and you know that, and i say, alex, i need you to do me a personal favor you can infer that that favor is tied to me giving you that cash. and it doesn t have to be direct. and plenty of public officials throughout the united states have been convicted for corruption simply because of an indirect inference or implication. okay. i want to take a look at this. earlier, a former fbi double agent, navid jamali, had a different take on the complaint, saying that this person may have been concerned that they were being asked to break a law. take a listen. i think this is beyond just the phone calls. i think most likely there was a follow-up action or actions that were meant to reinforce this