just look at what the president is saying. he's varying back and forth between this is a great idea and easy to win and turning around and saying, and, actually, we're going to throw 10, 20, $40 billion of relief because in our hearts we know we're hurting you. >> the last word i quoted from "the new york times" before turning to your introduction was the word "recession." is that -- is that where this is headed? >> i think it is where this is headed. look, for the most part the imports and exports aren't that big a share of the u.s. economy, so at first glance you say how could it lead to recession if trade isn't that big of a share and china isn't that big of a share of our trade? but the answers are, number one, it keeps escalating. number two, these are the two biggest economies in the world now throwing haymakers at each other. and number three, we're applying tariffs -- all tariffs are terrible, but the worst tariffs