witnesses to lie, inducing witnessing to withhold information, using veiled threats, promises and even money offering employment, offering to make one witness financially very comfortable, also providing lawyers for these witnesses. lawyers who then seem to be acting in trump's interest and not in the interest of these clients. so there's a lot of discussion. this has happened at some of their public meetings today and public hearings. it's certainly documented this today's written report. there seems to have been a lot they turned up about obstruction, witness tampering, even witness intimidation. nevertheless that is not the basis of any of the criminal referrals that the investigators made to the justice department today. why is that? joined by my msnbc co-hosts here, alex, this is something you raised with congressman schiff. i know you've been focused on. i find it interesting that they're talking a lot about what seems like pretty clear allegations of obstruction and witness tampering but not acting on them. >> you heard the congressman