>> greetings everyone, you are watching symone. former president donald trum indicted by a grand jury o tuesday. he will be formally charged an fingerprinted. it's the first in american history. we are digging into why there' a debate over whether president, former current should be hel to the same legal standards as you and i. and in true trump fashion, h is lashing out district attorney alvin brag and his staff, even the judg in the case. targets of attacks on social media and we're talking to reverend al sharpton, a man wh knows all about donald trump's history in new york. last republicans, while they are falling in line. the former vice president elec the leaders, even people trump could be riding against in the 2020 primary all defending donald, trum right now. before we even know the charge or the evidence. i am symone sanders-townsend and i have something to say. no one is above the law. it is not just a slogan, it' an american principle that i supposed to guide the justic system a principle that's pursued accountability for everyon from billionaires, to hollywoo hot shots to members o congress, to capitol secretaries. there, governors to mayors but never for an american presiden current or former. that all changed on thursday when a manhattan grand jur took the historic step o indicting former president donald trump after a lengthy investigation led by manhattan district attorney, alvin bragg that case centers around alleged hush money payment, to adult film star stormy daniels during trump's 2016 campaign true sources familiar with the matter tell nbc news to expect about 30 charges related t document fraud here is what trump's attorney, joe tacopina told my today sho colleagues about the forme presidents response. >> he decided we have to fight now and he got into a typica donald trump posture where h is ready to be combative o something that he believes i an injustice >> and combat if he, was a access to quentin meltdown o the little block of his. trump battered and berated everyone from prosecutors, t new yorkers, to that very judg overseeing his case. look you, guys we have not see the indictment we do not know yet the specifi charges, we don't know the evidence that guided those charges but we do know that th case was john enough t convince the majority of a grand jury panel to take a unprecedented step despite all of these unknown factors, many republican onc again length to defend the former president, echoing hi social media grants. >> they will do anything, us any kind of power to try and hold on to their own privileges, their own positions and we are seeing that tonight. this is just unprecedented i american history >> give the presidents a money to fight this blank. this is going to destroy america. >> it's a political prosecutio by in manhattan da who literally campaigned for offic on a pledge to indict th former president >> the district attorney alvin bragg was never out to get the former president as so many of trump's defenders what have yo believe. when it bragged took office, h determined that a three-year probe into trump's busines dealings did not have hard enough evidence to pursue an indictment against him this prompted outrage from trump's critics and even let prosecutors of the a brags o office to resign with one calling it a quot brave failure of justice trump's incessant cries of which hunt, i think they represent exactly the kind o disinformation that we hav come to expect from the former president. those determined to stand by him. people, this indictment is not trump's downfall and, fact this is when donal trump's rhetoric is that i most dangerous because we have seen this before we have seen that one checks and balances, when the world o law and even our own democracy itself stands in his way, that he threatens chaos and lawlessness or as he warne last week quote potential deat and destruction. this nation knows from experience that many of hi supporters take those words as marching orders. we say no one is above the law but through two impeachments an insurrection, irrevocable harm, irreparable harm t democracy and even more even a his own subordinates get priso time, donald trump himself has started accountability at ever turn all with the stamp of approval from the republican part apparatus. the indictment of a former president's historic but our nation living up to th principal that no one, not eve a former president, not even donald trump is above the law. now that would truly b uncharted territory. joining me now is former brooklyn prosecutor and msnb legal analyst, charles coleman former democratic congresswoma val demings of florida and editor at large for the bulwar and ems and contributor, charlie sykes. welcome, welcome to our. congresswoman, i will star with you you are an impeachment manager in the former presidents first and peach meant, only to watch the republican dominated senat at the time acquit him what was your reaction to th news of this indictment? well simone, it's good to be with you and your other gues and i don't think you could sa it enough that my former republican colleagues have not even seen the charges yet. but they have taken to the airwaves that -- basically ran to defend th presidents and i really thin that shameful. let me say, this i enforce the laws for 27 years. i helped to write the laws six years in congress. and what i know simone from lot of experience is that no one is above the law i remember during th impeachment trial of the first one, at least when we were trying to make a decisio whether we were going to mov forward with impeachment, and remember saying one of the democratic caucus meetings outlook, this president is not going to allow us to not impeach him because he is an habitual offender. he will not stop and we have seen the history of violations of law, violations of rules an poor behavior does not have great relationship with th truth and now, here we are so simone, with all of the challenges that are just the system has, i really do believ not just today, not just o friday but for a long time tha nobody is above the law. >> you know, donald trump ha been attacking the new yor county supreme court judge i his case, judge merck sean the judge is expected, again h will preside over this arraignment on tuesday and according to a court administration official, you have donald trump that sai this on social media understanding all of that. that the judge quote hates him and accused judge of mistreating the former presidents organization, cfo allan weisselberg when h presided over that case. charles, you know you are former prosecutor sofa freshly indicted defendant in your cas bad-mouthing the judge, to millions of folks on socia media, what would your reactio be >> well as a former prosecutor i would let it go. i am going to let it go ahea and let him dig a deeper hol as he can because the only thing that's going t ultimately result here simon as he is going to put himsel in that position, that judge has ample grounds to issue a gag order. now the contours of the ga order would remain to be see in terms of what he would an would not be able to talk abou and where he would and would not be able to post. he is giving this judge ampl grounds to get him in that position typically, not something you see judges do on prompt. it usually the prosecutor were asked for a gag order but in a case like this, alvin brag does not have to do anything because donald trump continues to run his mouth so if it continues to do, that he is going to open the door for the judge to put a gag order on him or he won't b saying anything more >> charlie, hearing both o those two things what we hav heard from charles and the former congresswoman, you have actually warned that our democracy and legal system are about to face a huge stres test with this prosecution what do you think the bigges star that we should be preparing for? >> well first of, all no one should be above the law bu donald trump has been for 50 years as someone who is abov the law. we do have a two, tier three tiered system of justice and donald trump has exploited tha for years and intends to continue to exploit it now the rules that change here here is something that has attacked the courts, attacke prosecutors, insulted judges and the pass freely. but next week, everythin changes because this will be the first time that somethin the judges presiding over hi own criminal trial he will be a crimina defendant. so when have the real stress test is that donald trump is going to use his clout, hi celebrity, his political power to try and discredit the entir criminal justice system. right, now the republica party's on we'll level falling in line behind donald trump bu on a larger level, what they are also doing is by not waiting to hear what's actuall in the indictment, they ar essentially saying that donald trump should continue to b above the law. that any attempt to hold him legally accountable is somehow illegitimate if one of the two majo political parties in thi country has internalized thi idea, that their leader should be untouchable, that a president and former president can never be charged wit anything, than we are in reall fraught constitutional situation here i do think we are seeing thi with threats, the threats of violence the attempts to intimidate and the attempt t essentially say that donal trump is somebody who ought to continue to be untouchable and also, running for presiden with the explicit promise that he is going to fir prosecutors. he is going to got the fbi >> this is not something, it's not normal and this is not you know just regular politica jargon if you will i think this was quite serious charles, can you walk us through what is actually going to happen when donald trum shows up at the courthouse i manhattan to surrender o tuesday? i think folks watching shoul know will that be any specia considerations for him, an walk us through what we will see? >> we are likely to see that usual perk walk that we se with many defendants, that i and of itself is not typically abnormal for someone of hi stature and his status he may or brady not be handcuffed and would not entirely surprised me not to see him handcuffed, he will be finger-pointed, he will get mugshot, it will be issued wha is called a nice number whic is in new york state inmat i.d. number. he will be given all of thos things, then he will appear in court. and then court the indictmen will be read in open court for everyone after it is unsealed, after it has been filed by alvin bragg and the da at th da's office. at that point, former presiden trump will be citizen trump an he will be treated like citizen throughout process o the prosecution. that may include several legal maneuvers from his defense tea as it should he is entitled to due proces as anyone else would be and so i expect that his attorneys ar going to do everything tha they can to try and move thi thing around and make the stat do their job it is the burden of the stat to prove donald trump, skilled not donald trump's burden to prove his innocence and that something that has to be understood and maintaine throughout this discussion regardless of the politica feelings or politica affiliations >> i think that's important, charles we are actually hearin no shot as of now, for the former president but again tha could change charles i appreciate your time lucky for everyone here, forme congresswoman -- y'all are sticking aroun because coming up on simone, w have more to discuss at th great reverend al sharpton joins me right here at the green table to discuss donal trump's familiar playbook. it all started well before h dominated national politics, this time it's racist, threatening rhetoric against the manhattan da but first my bestie is here, richard lui with today's other top news stories, hey richard watch the last hour. what do you have >> hey simone thank you for, that good saturday to you. we have been watching this, new wave of devastating weathe tearing through the south an midwest. at least ten tornadoes reporte in several states, 11 people are dead dozens more, injured arkansa governor declared a state of emergency, millions of peopl are now under tornado watche from texas all the way t michigan we will follow that. pope francis back home at th vatican after spending three nights in the hospital he is fighting bronchitis, the 86-year-old is expected though to kick off easter celebration tomorrow on a palm sunday. vice president harris complete her weeklong trip in africa, and the last day was in zambia where she met with philanthropic leaders and gave a speech about climate resilience she and the gentleman are no headed back to the states by the way of spain more simone right after this break. 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[ screaming ] introducing the xfinity 10g network. super fast internet today. with even faster speeds tomorrow. woo-hoo! i knew that this famous person calling for us to die was very serious. >> that was use of cell, on on of the five black and latino teenagers wrongly convicted of brutally raping a female jogge in new york city in 1989 he was talking about a advertisement that then up incoming media mogul nam donald trump took out fo newspapers across new york city, targeting salaam and for others the teens spent several year behind bars for a crime that they did not commit. finally, and 2002 the five wer exonerated and the city sought a lawsuit with them after th real perpetrator came forward. in 2019, donald trump was give the chance to apologize to them. instead, this is what he had t say. >> if you look at some of th prosecutors, they think that the city should never have settled that case. >> and, now trump is back at it slamming manhattan district attorney alvin bragg calling him an animal. bragg is the first black manhattan district attorney. he can be in the grand journey that voted to indict trump bragg received at least on death threats among hundreds o others in the form of package. it was melt to his offic containing a note that sai alvin, i will tell you >> you said salaam the exonerated five near the famou person's word mattered then. that famous person, now an e president, his words matter no to joining me now is my friend an colleague, the great reveren al sharpton. he is the host o politicsnation here on msnbc in the founder and president of the nationa action network rev, you know da alvin bragg very well. can you just maybe walk us through about how he personall has been handling th legitimate threats on his life >> he has been very strong i think as any of us, he i concerned more about his famil and we have talked about, he has young children and children, hey talk to me about how i handled being in controversies for the last many years and ho children did not sign up for public life. and they are now subjected t this not only media mail strong but actual threats against their father and could be possibly against him. but i think the thing that people forget is that donald trump is talking about alvin bragg and being reckless alvin bragg was the same alvin bragg a year ago when he too office, that stop th investigation on donald trump. so, clearly there must be some new evidence and some ne factors that made him go forward and go as far as putting this in front of a grand jury who voted to indict donald trump >> so have you spoken to bra since the indictment >> i have talked to him often, i want to go into it he comes to national network sometimes. he is a hollow might and w have rallies every saturda morning. i talk to him but not about the, case we never, ever get into that case. i have no idea what he i coming with. i just know who is coming an he is too methodical and careful in my judgment t proceed with the case unless h felt it was a case that they could win. >> you, know reverend sharpton what struck me about this whole, all of these republicans who are coming to defend donal trump seguin oh this is al politically motivated. it is just some people have, said it just a misdemeanor right you have lived a lon life okay? a community activist for a while, you are an activist whe the exonerated fiber wrongfull convicted. you rallied on their behal when donald trump attacked the and that newspaper when donald trump is arraigned on tuesday, he is going to b in the same courtroom, and the same building that the exonerated fiber in. the same courthouse, pardon me that they are in what is the significance o that >> it's very significant because you must remembe donald trump had never and the decades that he and i have bee out here in new york and nationally taken a position on the criminal justice or civi rights in his whole career howard beach killings in the 80s, all the way to now. the only time he did that wa taken ads calling for the deat penalty of these young men and of course, then when he go into politics, he entered on brother-ism saying that barack obama was not a real american. so it seems like he only get involved when it's race agains a black and i think you know when we were out there and there was not many activists there were some that we did no even work together but all o those groups that we cam together around the exonerated five he called this all kinds o names and this is because thes kids said to us, their parents at us that they were force into confessions they ended up being right. fine, maybe he got it wrong, maybe he bullied the da. when they were exonerated by the end a evidence, you just played the clip. he said it was still wrong and that he refused to even accept scientific evidence. but now he is asking us to thi believe an indictment that w have not even heard or rea yet. >> we all know the charges, we have not seen the full evidenc that stuff we will see o tuesday. of some of the attacks tha have been leveled by donal trump and his allies against da, has been specifically about th fact that the da has decline to take on some lower leve charges. yet he is going after donald trump. now i know in january of 2022, once alvin bragg took office he issued a memo that talked about the kinds of charges tha he would not, they wouldn't go after anymore. they are jumping, is that what these attacks are? about explain that to us >> what he is saying is th attacks are saying that he would not go after a certain crime. he is saying that jumpin should not be crowding up th jails. we ought to be putting violent criminals in jail. and some of the crimes tha were higher has gone down unde alvin bragg. so i think that they are jus playing games, trying to stoke people's fears alvin bragg has been a prosecutor for a long time he as a record, he was voted i because of that record and i think for them to try an say that is erroneous. but again i'm having michael cohen on again the next hour o politicsnation following you eric holder will be on again, we are talking about case that we have not even heard yet. we don't know if this is jus about stormy daniels until tuesday. so we must see what happens, i could always say it was a song called stormy monday, bu tuesday is just as bad >> all, right reverend a sharpton president of national action network and host of politicsnation folks make sure you'll tune in to reverend sharpton's show in the next hour. reverend sharpton will b interviewing michael cohen and eric holder, former attorney general will be there as well. thank you very much to the rev >> the fabulous -- the fabulous among >> thank you, rev up next folk as we have been talking abou donald trump's indictment is i fact unprecedented but so was his behavior. the manhattan da's push fo accountability, it does fit key american press but remember, no one is above the law. not even ex presidents, my political panel is here to weigh in on trump's historic indictment got a quick programming note before my political panel come because tomorrow, ali velshi will need a special coverage o the indictment of former president donald trump we will be joined by the rev as well as katie fang, jonatha kaye part and yours truly, w will all be talking about th latest developments and what might be next for the former president. watch special coverage tomorro at 6 pm eastern on msnbc we back in a moment. we back in a moment. blood when you brush could lead to worse over time. help stop the clock on gum disease now. parodontax toothpaste... ...is 3x more effective at removing plaque bacteria, one of the main causes of bleeding gums. parodontax. the gum experts. folks, we are just navigatin the president had lega territory right now. once the former president' arraigned on tuesday, we wil be facing a historic first o the political spectrum as well that's because donald trum will be going between th courthouse and the campaig trail. he will tell thousands o supporters that they shoul pick him to protect and defend the united states constitution as president and go right back to telling them those constitutional norm are invalid, and i don't go hi way. and he will do it all whil raking in his supporters donations. even when a former president i not above the law, it seem like he is still above the law i mean could you call back t your day job if you were indicted tomorrow? i know for a fact i cannot they're seeking our nation's highest office absolve e o accountability as a presidential ballot wit your name on, it a little ge out of jail free card? a political panel joins me now to discuss new terrain sabrina said the key is a whit house reporter for the wal street journal we also a former florida congresswoman val demings an msnbc political contributor, charlie sykes they are all bac as well. so charlie, donald trump's campaign claims to have gotten $4 million in donations and th day after we learned of hi indictment right we keep seeing the, numbers we saw the republican apparatus defended him after tha indictment came out. but these may not be the onl indictments that we see before the republican primaries are over at what point the republican voters even say that you kno these things made donald trump too weak of a candidate, too much fanfare >> well we don't know, tha what we do know is that in the short run republican voter like donald trump even more. his lead in the polls is actually gone up and the republican base. and although it is early, we may have indictments comin down from georgia, the department of justice. i think it's pretty obvious, what the republican apparatu and republican elites will do. they just cannot quit donald trump. they are all, in defending him against listened that mean that they have not seen and think that is going to be th pattern. that they aren't stuck, they just can't quit this guy they are locked into this norm that something else will com along and take care of it or somebody else is going to note that congresswoman, deming mentioned that he is a habitua defender but they are buying the ticket here i would not expect the bi that the republican lead wil change their tone, after the subsequent in the indictment out of georgia or jack smith which means that the republica party is going to spent much o the next year defending donald trump, defending his character and his conduct and is unconstitutional and illegal behavior this is the choice they've bee making for the last seven years, i think that we can expect tha they will continue to make tha choice >> i believe i read in something you wrote this wee that yet, again what may b good for the former presiden is not necessarily good for th republican party sabrina, we have heard a lot from the republican part apparatus about this but not a much from the top of the democratic party apparatus fro the white house and presiden biden. they have repeatedly said no comment on this indictment but what are you hearing on th streets of 1600 pennsylvania avenue about just th considerations and deliberations that are going o among the presidents top aides >> well i think to your poin simone, it does not matter however many ways to try and ask president biden or the white house. the answer is going to remai no comment when it comes t this indictment, from my conversations with president biden's aides, part of that is just keeping with what had lon been a practice of sitting president, not commenting or weighing in, ongoing legal matters. i think trump incidentally was the exception to that rule where he often would but you have seen biden frequently even unrelated to th investigations into former president trump declined t weigh in on any ongoing lega case but also, there is no appetite among president biden and th white house to give an credence whatsoever by way again, to these claims by trum and his allies that this is al politically motivated or a par of some democratic party conspiracy when of course, there is no truth to those claims and of president biden comes out and says something forceful, that could give trump and hi allies a little bit more ammunition and saying that thi is some kind of which on o that biden and his administration is behind i what we know that is not the case and finally, president biden a he gears up for this likel reelection campaign could very much face former precedent trump as his opponent. and you know i think that we see biden and his advisers it's a distraction from th agenda and the record that h will be running on and the believe that when focused, within it of itself create a contrast to the many legal challenges and of potentia criminal charges that trum will be facing in the campaign >> so congresswoman, that is the white house. we are hearing from lawmaker and i think we're hearing from lawmakers, i think we're hearing from democrati lawmakers because we are seein republican lawmakers falsely claim things like this trigger turning, alvin bragg is backed by democratic donor, georg soros, i think that's a bull horn that is based on th anti-semitic trope that jewish people secretly control th highest levels of government why has this narrative taken such a hold? why all lawmakers determined t prop it up and this attackin of alvin bragg what happened back in the blue the prosecutors are aligne forsman, are they not? >> yes, they are absolutely th top cops as we like to say remember simone that fear yo know, scaring the how lot of people about the other certainly people who wer different has been the playboo for president trump and thos who have decided to follow him you know the facts now again w don't know the particulars o what is actually, what the charges are going to look like we have some really good ideas what we do, no whatever is i the charges affidavits, th facts are not on the side of the former president and so if he needs a big distraction, he needs a bi diversion and fear is a good one. he is called on the ghost of racism, calling the a brag a animal, a monster. it is called on the fear o trying to undermine, the institutions which remember he has done since day one, day on of his campaign. and throughout his tenure as president. he has called on the fear of you know the deep state, anything to scare people t death so that they wil continue to follow him and the republican sadly, my forme republican colleagues are to willing, all too willing t play that game sabrina, i am almost at a time here quickly but i do thin folks have gone and i'm talkin about people within the news media. we are at the point where we are explaining and george soro is sending out a statement about how he did not back alvi bragg instead of calling thi anti-semitic trope what it is. what is going on >> well i think it just show the extent to which you have seen not just antisemitism but a lot of these conspirac theories that have been aire by politicians normalized as part of political rhetoric so to your, point there is a great responsibility on news organizations to be very clear and calling out falsehoods rather than allowing claims to be aired, as a political statement. >> i agree, wholeheartedly we will leave it there, sabrin said dickey thank you. former congressman val demings thank you, charlie sykes thank you. , for the deadly shooting at a tennessee elementary school is a tragic reminder of america's gun problem. and frankly the frustratio that is spilling into the hall of congress, - >> calm down, children are dying. and nine year old children the solution is not arming teachers have you ever worked at school have you ever worked in school >> that was democratic andres, man to all bowman in a heate exchange with republican thoma massie after the break, their colleague joanna hayes joins m live to discuss th congressional gridlock that is halting common sense gun safet reforms. that is next, stay with us because covid is still out there, and so are you. and if your last vaccine was before september 2022, you're out there with fading protection. but an updated vaccine restores your protection. so you can keep doing you. get an updated covid vaccine and stay out there, safely. a man, his family, and his tractor, penny. these are the upshaws. and this is their playground. there's a story in every piece of land, run with us on a john deere tractor and start telling yours. next on behind the series... let me tell you about the greatest roster ever assembled. the monster, the outlaw... and you can't forget about the boss. sometimes- you just want to eat your heroes. the subway series. the greatest menu of all time. with a majority of my patience with sensitivity, i see irritated gums and weak enamel. helps restore gum health, and rehardens enamel. tngs that i know work. i see irritated gums and weak enamel. you need to deliver new apps fast using the services you want in the clouds of your choice. with flexible multi-cloud services that enable digital innovation and enterprise control, vmware helps you innovate and grow. what causes a curve down there? 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>> no, i have said first of al thank you for having me and feel this with every fiber o my being this is actually the reaso that motivated me to run for congress, the discussion around arming teachers and whe the previous secretary o education came before th congress, this is how directed my questioning. and their very first resolutio i had was to prohibit the us of federal funds to ar teachers because the onl people calling for things like that are people who have never spent a day in a classroom because as a teacher, you know i know that i could not be responsible for a firearm an take care and make sure my students are safe. that is not the solution t this problem the problem is common sense, gun legislation and making sur that we have less guns and our schools and in communities, no more >> along those lines, hous speaker -- house minority leader hakeem jeffries sent a letter t speaker, kevin mccarthy and he was pressing him in that lette to hold a vote on the quotes common sense, gun safety legislation. but as you know, more well tha most that there's a lot of republicans on capitol hil that believes that legislation won't stop gun violence. leader jeffrey says that it' time to put kids over guns why isn't that happening why is it so difficult >> yes and as the leader noted in the letter, we have had a think it's close to 130 mass shootings already this year an we're only in march. and the last congress, i cosponsored legislation to jus collect data to shooting safet and preparing staff. my republican colleagues tha want to collect data so that w can have preventative measures they are putting their head in the sand, that even wors blocking any legislation i order to keep our kids safe. when asked about, it thing like we can't fix this that is not an option. if you're an elected leader an you are not even going to tr and fix this problem, then you need to move out of the way an let the people who are willing to do something about it, whic right now happens to be th democrats, get the work done o keeping the kids safe in schools. they should not be happening this does not happen in an other country in the world no parent should have to sen their child to school withou knowing whether or not they ar going to come home i am completely frustrated b this i can understand you know i sa the clips of representativ bowman and i feel every part o that because it is frustrating we have the ability and th capacity to do something about it and right now, republican are blocking, don't have the will and are blocking an legislative measures in orde to keep kids safe from school. >> there are folks out there are congresswoman, that woul say it's the nra way that it i holding these members of congress hostage a fuel fo lack of a better term. the nra is not in my opinion wielding the power in this debate anymore it's a gun culture mindset tha they have spread and that it i held fast with the republica bassist of voters. how do you win your democratic colleagues and congress, counter that pressure. counter that narrative >> i think we elect more candidates who are gonna sav the of it and gun safe candidates i can tell you that when i initially was elected in 2019, just to shift and the cultur change around how we approac comment sense gun legislation, we are not trying to tak anyone's guns. but american peopl overwhelmingly agree that re flag laws and background check and now even assault weapons bans are things that we should at least be debating on th floor and calling to a vote. the do nothing is just unconscionable i think what we are going to see is more people because lik i said, that is what motivated me after parkland, having lived through a school shooting when my students were asking me after noon, mess why is this happening and why at the adult doing anything when i heard the secretary o education floating the idea of arming teachers, as that i'v had enough, i cannot wait for legislator to fix this for me. i have to enter th conversation, be part of the solution so then more people will run and we are gonna have an overwhelming majority of peopl who agree that we have to do something to keep the kids safe >> congresswoman joanna hayes, thank you. >> thank you so much, simone >> former president trump' indictment is going to go down in the history books folks the question is why? while presidential historian doug brinkley will join me after the break to break dow why other democracies have hel president illegally accountable, but america has not until now. stay with us (psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary. spray flonase sensimist daily for non-drowsy, long lasting relief in a scent-free, gentle mist. 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that is technically true since it is never happened in th united states until now. but if we look around the, world it's a different story in france, italy, brazil, al of these countries leaders hav been charged and convicted o crimes current israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu is facing corruption charges right now so why doesn't it happen here? well it turns, out the department of justic established a policy in 1973 that was during watergate. that policy said that no sitting president could be indicted that memo from the justice department faded quote the spectacle of an indicted president, still trying to serve as chief executive bottles the imagination. joining me now, presidential historian, douglas brinkley. doug, it is very good to see you. this rule boggles th imagination. was the role adopted t actually shield president nixon? >> yes, there was a feelin that nixon was going to go under in 73 and this would be way to protect nixon's power but alas, watergate did happen and many of the spiro agnew ha to resign. the vice president, over bribery charges. could've gone to jail but he didn't but then all of the presidents methadone iksan including attorney general joh mitchell ended up doing jail time the president was seen a something unique and leave i to protect we did not have the weir spectacle of former u.s. president or a sitting one suddenly indicted and put in jail that is why trump is such strange aberration going o right now. but in most of american history, presidents either came out o the u.s. military meaning yo learned a code of honor. duty, honor country, earn your metals many of the countries where, generals colonels and then other groups or lawyers. and when you are a lawyer, you are supposed to understand the constitution of law and order. trump is this bizarre one offe who is for spent his career as kind of a grift or >> it's like a reality tv star >> yes reality tv star >> so, dark i hear what you ar saying about this point abou the spectacle of the america president. there are scholars out there and even some historians tha argue that the founding father deliberately did not put tha kind of provision in the constitution because it implie that the president is above th law. what is your interpretation of that >>, look presidents are no above the law and particularly once you leave office as an ex president, it's true we'd be sitting presidents on th latitude i mean we talk all the tim about a presidents ability t pardon, donald trump and famously pardoned roger ston and others but once you're out of office, you honestly, honestly simon are simply a citizen you have to have secret service, yes you have a nice pension bu you are an american citizen an you are not above our judicial system that's where trump misread things, he really is a student of nixon's line from the frost nixon debate were nixon's out of a presiden does it, it must be legal bu trump never said - nixon never said it if an ex president is indicted. it's different, trump's a ma without that kind of privilege that we would like to clai executive privilege and he has none >> he has nine doug brinkley, you always just make it so plain and break all of the things down i am grateful for your voice i this moment. appreciate your time >> oh, thank you >> and thank you out there for watching symone on thi saturday i am symone sanders-townsend you can cast your right here o msnbc at legan's at 4 pm eastern. anytime over on peacock where have new episodes on the msnbc hub every monday i will be back, right afte reverend al sharpton at 6 pm eastern. i will be guys hosting america voices from 6 to 8 you don't want to miss me an after the break, stick aroun because reverend al sharpton will have an interview wit michael cohen. eric holder and so many others thank you so much. so it's decided, we'll park even deeper into parking spaces so people think they're open. surprise. 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