Everybody needs to chill out because it will work. Sdl growing bipartisan anger over the obama care website and growing revelations of spying and surveillance. Whats the next move at the white house . Also today, the brown game. How is the obama care rollout going in the states . Well go across country. And days of fire. The new book that takes you inside the bush chain aeney partnership. The man who wrote the book will join me live. And also the wave to legalize samesex marriage has hit hawaii. A special session starts tomorrow. Protests are happening today. A whole heck of a lot to get to on a sunday afternoon. But we start in hawaii. Tomorrow Hawaii GovernorNeal Abercrombie will be opening a rare special session of the state Legislature Today to debate a new bill that would make hawaii the 15th state to legalize same sex marriages. But conservative opposition could cause trouble in paradise. Joining me new, the governor. Back in 1993, your state was one of the very first states to lay the ground work for same sex marriage. But the effort failedrvative ba. In 1998, they voted for an amendment to define marriage as between a man and a woman. Whats changeded . . I think the characterization of the amendment wasnt quite accurate. It gave the legislature the right to define marriage as always existed for the legislature. So the issue has evolved over time. And i think thats why were at conditions that we are today are were ready to have this special session to address the question of marriage equity. Let me ask you is question i know youve been asked a lot. Why call a special session for this, why not as some have suggested allow voters to decide a measure like this . Its quite clear in the wake of the Supreme Court decisions with regard to the defense of marriage act that there are simply indicatiila implications for taxes, for life decisions, and if you delay anything, youre exceptionally denying. And so you cant really say to somebody if there is a question of equity, that it needs to be put off for some period of time. With everyones tax situation coming up in january, i felt it was very important that we resolve the situation well before then. Do you believe there enough support for samesex marriage this go around . Im confident the votes are there, but ive been involved in politics for five decades so i wait for the votes are actually counted. But i think the situation is ready to be concluded. There is a big spread on tfr page that details the states evolving stance on samesex marriage and it points out that in 2010 democratic primary debate, that you said samesex marriage in hawaii is, quote, unlikely ever to be considered. How have your personal feelings evolved on this particular issue . I also said the issue has evolved. I never believed it would be brought up on its own by the legislature, but the conditions and circumstances have brought it frin front of us. So now the question of equity is onhe verge of being concluded. Before you served as governor, you were a congressman for more than 20 years and notefully friends with president obamas parents. What do you make of all the partisan gridlock, all the mess consuming d. C. Right now . Thats a terrific question, craig, because an era has passed literally with the death of representative bill young of florida last week. The capacity for bipartisan interaction exemplified by jack murtha and bill young in the house of representatives, able to legislate, thats pretty much over im sorry to say. And what we have now is less legislatures than we have infiltrate tors in the congress of the United States, particularly the house. So its very difficult. Tors in of the United States, particularly the house. So its very difficult. A great spot to leave it. Governor, thank you so much for your time and by the way, thats a fantastic shirt, sir. This is hawaii fashion right now. And were here to welcome everybody. Its another Beautiful Day in parra tiadise and were looking forward to all of you who would like to get married regardless of your particular gender or orientation circumstances, could to hawaii. And ill invite Chris Christie to come out. We wont even charge for you that free advertisement. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it, governor. The Obama Administration today finding its poll is hes under fire on a number of fronts. Lets get right to the brain trust. Political strategist and principal of impact strategies, perry baker, msnbc contributor, and Jennifer Rubin columnist for a washington post. Good to see all of you on a sunday. An angela, krichl krit krit am of bam care continues. Take a listen. One thing i have to tell you, the rollout is the least of the problem here. The rollout looks like a disaster. The problem with obama care is it doesnt get to the nub of the problem. Which is Higher Health care costs that have been out of control. So when you roll it out, if it rolled out perfectly, its not going to achieve what america wants. So now its not just republicans. Ten Democratic Senators say that they also want some sort of delay in enforcing the law. How can president obamas plan remain on schedule with members of his own parties now seeking a delay . Well, i think that we have to look at why we it actually are experiencing this level of challenge with the obama care website. First and foremost, lets address this. If there werent 45 votes to repeal obama care and instead congress in total, not just democrats that were supporting the law, but if republicans actually had the decency and the common accepts to realize that this was the law of the land, it has been since march 12010, perhaps they should have used the time for proper oversight and then we wouldnt be here today. Oh, come on. Stand by, jennifer. Anxious larks finish. If you really take the time to ensure that something actually works, thats what real teamwork is and thats what real bipartisanship looks like. When you have a law that is on the books to ensure that all American People have Health Care Coverage and that coverage that they deserve. Jennifer, what part of that dont you buy . Just about all including the the. The republicans are not responsible for this mess. This was pushed through purely on democratic votes. The United States senate is controlled by democrats. If they wanted to conduct oversight hearings, dhee have. The Administration Lied to us. They told us everything was okay. How many times did we hear from the president 100 everything is on track. When senator max baucus said is this going to be a train wreck, the administration and all their supporters rushed forth and said, no, thats nonsense. Everything will be fine. Its not fine. And to the point that governor kasich was making, its not simple lit website. The entire premise of obama care was it you could force young relatively Healthy People into the exchanges, they would buy insurance, and they would subsidize sicker slightly older people, no tt medicare people, t slight older people. That does that seem to be happening. Perry ar, i read you wrote t idea that the president will be traveling taking obama care on the road, continuing this push in massachusetts at some point this week. What can we expect to hear from the white house during that particular visit . So on wednesday hes going to boston. And hes into to talk abogoing massachusetts hassed a Health Care Law very similar to the one we have nationally and the president will say that law had a bumpy start at the beginning, too, but ended up working out. So its been a success according to most analysis of it. And i think thats the message. We started off poorly. The white house is being blunt that this is not working well the first three weeks, but there is still time. The important thing being that most people probably were not going to sign up for insurance in the first three week anyway. The key date is december 15th. December 15th. By that date, you have to sign up for insurance that starts on january 1st. If the websites are not working that day and we have real problems, not working by thanksgiving, we have real problems. Right now there is more time left. Anxious larks tgela, the whi also under criticism for the surveillance, especially of angela merkel. Chairman darrel el issa pointina finger at the white house. Remember the nsa works for the president. So its a question of did the president want to hear what chanceler merkel chancellor merkel was saying. Hundreds of folks yesterday marching on capitol hill protesting government surveillance programs. Angela, how will opposition to inform sa spying, how will this particular example of that, how will that affect the president on the domestic front, or will it . I think it very well could. What we do have to look at is what the president has done to address this sense the snowden leaks. There the review group on intelligence and Communications Technology that he established and also we know that back in august, he announced there would be an ombudsman like function to the fisa court. So weve known since post 9 11, with the patriot act changes, that there would be some issues. And so there just has to be a balance between, you know, civil rights, civil liberties. Perhaps jennifer has a solution to this, as well. I didnt hear hers on obama care. I actually have one on obama care. We have to get to a commercial break. Thank you solyou so much. Up next, the manhunt for several inmates who escaped from jail. Wait until you hear how they got out. Plus, inside the egyptian uprising. A new film gives a rare view from the ground as cairo erupted into chaos. The films director and would have one of the leaders of the movement will join me live. Also the unbelievable ending of game three of the world seriess. [ man ] adventure, it means taking chances. It means trying something new. [ woman ] that uncertainty of whats to come. [ male announcer ] when we built the cadillac ats from the ground up to be the worlds best sport sedan. People noticed. The cadillac ats 2013 north american car of the year. Lease this cadillac ats for around 299 per month with premium Care Maintenance included. You may be muddling through allergies. Try zyrtecd®. Powerful relief of nasal congestion and other allergy symptoms all in one pill. Zyrtecd®. At the pharmacy counter. Topping our sunday headlines, the certainly is under way for these four inmates who escaped a jail last night in oklahoma. Officials say the four men went through the trap door above the jail shower. Then through a crawl space to get outside. Those inmates had been waiting to be transferred to the state penitentiary. The operation of the ride that hurt five at the North Carolina state fair have been charged with three counts of assault of a it deadly weapon. The men tampered with the ride. And syria has formally filed details of plans to destroy its check c chemical weapons plan. With president obamas mideast agenda on the front pages today, a new documentary out sheds fresh insight on egypts air rarab spring. It chronicles the massive protests that led to the resignation of mubarak. We have with us the producer and one of the activists. First of all, how dangerous was this to shoot a documentary like that at the height of the protests . I mean, our entire team was either chased or arrested or beaten up at some point. But i dont think any of us would have been there if we werent egyptians or people that cared about the cause. We would have been there anyway. So thats why we were there making the film. What inspired it . Were egypt shansiaegyptians. It was important to be in the the middle of it. Our country is still changing. And i make films which follow the emotional story that gets behind the headlines. So you really what you see on the news is you see the million man march, the election, but you dont see exactly how you get there in a personal way. So thats what this film is about. M and then reshot the ending. Why . We went back because the revolution continues and still continues. But it was very important to get to this continual fight. Because where we ended it the first time was the removal of a president , president hosni mubarak, for the demand to remove the next president , morsi. But people were back in the streets saying they will continue to fight against any fascist regime. So it was very important to get that fight against the Muslim Brotherhood that happened in the last chapter of the film. A lot of folks may not know in, but you are an established actor, you were in the green zone, you decided im going to put that on hold and go to egypt and be a part of this. How did that come to be . Im part of a generation of people who have been fighting for political freedoms. Both my father and grandfather were political activists and imprisoned. But im privileged to be able to live for what i believe in. Live and fight for it. So through film, documentary, through fiction films. We continue to see protests to this day. In the simplest of terms for folks who might be watching or listening, what needs to be it done in that country so that egyptians are satisfied with their government . One thing people have misunderstood is they project their open democracy on to the situation in egypt. One thing people forget is that unless you have a proper checks and Balance System around your democracy, when for example like what happened morsi takes on becomes the sole executive and legislative authority in the country, normally you can impeach them. Checks and balance ensures you pr free press, guarantees democracy. When you dont have them and they start disenfrandisenfranche street becomes the only place you can use in order to hold power accountable. So really what we need is the mechanisms to hold power accountable. At that point, the fair fight begins in order to establish the things that people have dreamt of. Freedom, social justice, good education, health care, all of the things that provide over a long period of reform the possibility of economic prosperity, the possibility of a life where youre born knowing that things can get better for you. Its a fantastic watch. Thank you both for your time. It opens for three weeks at the film forum downtown. Were there for q as. There you go. Tweet it. Ill retweet you. Ladies, take the wheel. More than 60 brave saudi women reportedly hopped in the drivers seat this weekend. They were protesting National Laws banning them from getting licenses of their own. Almost as surprising, considering heavy police warning, there have been so far no reports of arrests. Saudi comedian and social activist is bringing more attention to their plight with this protest song. Afghanistan in 2009. On the u. S. S. Saratoga in 1982. [ male announcer ] once its earned, usaa Auto Insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaas commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. Begin your legacy. Get an Auto Insurance quote. Usaa. We know what it means to serve. To severe plaque psoriasis. The frustration. Covering up. So i talked with my doctor. He prescribed enbrel. 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Neil and buzz for teaching us that you cant create the future. By clinging to the past. And with that youre history. Instead of looking behind. Delta is looking beyond. 80 thousand of us investing billions. In everything from the best experiences below. To the finest comforts above. Were not simply saluting history. Were making it. Customer erin swenson ordebut they didnt fit. Line customers not happy, im not happy. Sales go down, im not happy. Merch comes back, im not happy. Use ups. They make returns easy. Unhappy customer becomes happy customer. Then, repeat customer. Easy returns, im happy. Repeat customers, im happy. Sales go up, im happy. I ordered another pair. Im happy. both im happy. Im happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy. Happy happy. I love logistics. We want to bring you this story coming into ms nbc. Lou reed, the legendary rock musician has died today. He had quite the long running solo career. The call cause of death was complications related to a liver transplant. Lou reed was 71. All cause of de complications related to a liver transplant. Lou reed was 71. Ll cause of dea complications related to a liver transplant. Lou reed was 71. Cause of death complications related to a liver transplant. Lou reed was 71. Cause of death complications related to a liver transplant. Lou reed was 71. Yut rage is building in santa rosa where a deputy shot and killed a 13yearold boy earlier this week. Officer thought the boy was carrying an Assault Rifle. Turns out it was toy. Now the fbi is getting involved. Joe fryer with the latest. Reporter craig, the fbi is now investigate this case which stems from a quick confrontation last tuesday afternoon. Officers say that they thought a boy was carrying an Assault Rifle only after shooting him did they realize it was in fact a toy replica. This has sparked protests throughout Santa Rosa California who have been protesting the shooting death of andy lopez. Classmates even walked out of school this past week, marched to the Sonoma CountySheriffs Office and scrolled messages in wet cement that just happened to be drying outside of the building. It all happened tuesday afternoon. Investigators say two sheriffs deputies spotted lopez Walking Around with what they thought was an Assault Rifle. Investigators say the deputies asked lopez to drop the gun. One of the deputies described it as the subject turning toward him, the barrel of the Assault Rifle rising up and turning in his direction. This all unfolded in a matter of seconds. One deputy opened fire. Lopez was shot seven times, only afterwards did officers realize the gun was actually a replica. The sheriff is promising a thorough transparent investigation. In addition to the fbi, the Santa Rosa Police department and county d. A. Are also investigating. So far the names of the two pep d deputies involved have not been released out of concern for their tsafety. From what happene deputies involved have not been released out of concern for their safety. Ep deputies involved have not been released out of concern for their safety. P deputies involved have not been released out of concern for their safety. Deputies involved have not been released out of concern for their safety. Weve added cuttingedge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a stateoftheart monitoring center, where experts watch over all drilling activity twentyfourseven. And were sharing what weve learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. Our commitment has never been stronger. Of their type 2 diabetes with noninsulin victoza®. For a while, i took a pill to lower my blood sugar, but it didnt get me to my goal. So i asked my doctor about victoza®. He said victoza® is different than pills. Victoza® is proven to lower blood sugar and a1c. Its taken onceaday, any time, and comes in a pen. And the needle is thin. 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Peter baker has a new book on that relationship. Vice president cheney himself was on abc this morning talking about the current state of the gop. We clearly need to spend time and effort on building the base, building the party, making it a fulltime professional operation in terms of the rnc. There is a lot of work to be done, no question about it. Joining me live, peter baker. Good to see you, sir. There has long been this narrative involving dick cheney. Essentially calling the shots. How much power did he actually wield . Right. Good question. You know, we got this sort of rather cartoonish version of what that white house is really like. It became solidified in the public mind, great fodder for comedians. But in fact Vice President cheney was never actually quite as influential as people assumed he was. And even though he was an important figure in the first term, by the second term, he and president bush began drifting away on important policy issues. What was behind the shift . I think the more president pu bush spent time in office, the more he felt confident, needed Vice President cheney less. He also began feeling as the iraq war began he was looking more toward pivoting toward diplomacy, trying to change the direction of his administration. And Vice President cheney thought that was a bad idea, they were drifting away from the principles they had shared at the beginning. You note that while cheney does not have a softer side, does he have a sense of humor and he took it in stride when members of the media and public made references to, quote, him as darth vader. And he purposely tried on a darth vader mask, his aides posed with a picture. When he tried to put it in his memoir, his wife talked him out of it. Sense of humor aside, how much owe fence did he take at some reviled he was by some . He was pretty immune. He continue plan to run to office again and he sort of shrugged off the the polls. I think president bush was more sensitive to the notion that he was somehow not really in charge. He kind of bristled at that on occasion. In 2004, Vice President cheney offered to drop off the ticket and president bush thought about it but decided not to do it of course. On what terms did they leave office . By the time they left office, they had been on the opposite sides of a up 1 2 issues and it came to a dramatic conclusion over whether Scooter Libby should get a pardon or not. President bush said no. Vice president cheney said youre leaving a good man wounded on the field of battle. And that was a big moment. They went their different directions. I understand that the Vice President at that time lobbied president bush not once, not twice, but repeatedly. He did. Kept bringing it up again. It got to the point where president bush got tired of talking about it. And it became sort of like a pro proxy for the end of their partnership. They had gone through all these extraordinary occasions and crises and it looked like in a way Vice President cheney was asking for this one last thing and president bush decided he wasnt going to give to him because he didnt think a pardon was justified. Peter baker, new york times. The book is called days of fire. Peter, thank you. Thanks for having me. Back to obama care. We know it has become endless political in ordfodder in d. C. But what kind of effect is it having outside the beltway is this joining me live with perspective from real america, john rosten, political reporter for miami herald, and political reporter for the Pittsburgh Tribune review in pennsylvania. Thank you so much for being with me. Selena, let me start with you. You recently wrote a column comparing obama care to prohibition. Quote, just like prohibition, obama care promised to change the world. So far, it has been nothing short of a disaster. Whys th s thahas it been so dif implement specifically in pennsylvania . I think nothing sort of makes a better example than kathleen sebelius, the health secretary, came to pittsburgh for her first event to talk about or to enroll people at heinz field with bompdan rooney. They had this big event. There were about 100 people there. They had 20 government certified people, technical people. At the end of the event to sign people up. Unfortunately, none of the 100 people that were there were able to sign up for the event. And i think that sort of encapsulates the problems that are not just in pittsburgh, but this philadelphia and across the state. People are unable to sign up. Not only through the website, but also through the 800 number. So its been frustrating for people. There are a couple social Service Agencies that measure this and as of last wednesday, it show that had no one from pennsylvania had been able to sign up yet. No one . No one. Literally not one person . That was last monday. Im sure its changed. Lets move out west. John, nevadas obama Care Exchange is called Nevada Health link i understand. It wont release hard numbers on how many people are actually enrolled. But they did tweet how much started. As of october 15th, about 33,000 created accounts, 12,000 started applications, but only 1400 had selected a plan and placed it in their carts. Which is still one step short of actually enrolling. They project to enroll roughly 118,000. How confident are officials there that the numbers will pick up . Veers they aof course theyr sounding confident. Nevada has one of the highest uninsured populations in the country. About 600,000. The director of the exchange, they have this facebook page, i give them credit for transparen transparency, he put out there that he got stuck for half an hour on the website, where, on the terms of use page. So you know that theyre having problems when thats going on. You accurately cited the numbers that Nevada Health link has put occupy. Do i find it suspicious that they are not being more transparent with how many people have actually gotten through. They say thats coming in december. I dont know if the word of a disaster is true, but it sure isnt going well. Harry reid says its a situation in nevada. Has the Senate Majority leader been on the ground trying to sell this himself . Certainly not. What he does is he just attacks republicans as you know from the senate floor and his word is being obsessed with obama care. Does he what all the democrats do. Acknowledges the kinks, whatever the message point of the day is on the federal website. What he says is he gushes about sandoval, expanding medicaid, but he doesnt want to be critical of the exchanges to wo. Lets get back down to florida. I want to talk to about the ground game there. Ofa volunteers can be found at every beach, every church, every mall and retirement home. I spent some time with a few of them. Has there been any equivalent ground game effort to get floridians signed up for the Health Care Plan down there . They have tried, but the problem is that the website essentially doesnt work. Florida has the number two he highest uninsured rate in the nation. About 25 . He highest uninsured rate in the nation. About 25 . E highest uninsured rate in the nation. About 25 . Highest uninsured rate in the nation. About 25 . Even higher rate in miami. Hispanics are among the most uninsured population in the nation and in florida, as well. Higher than 25 basically no one can get into the website. As a result, marco rubio wants to delay the obama care mandate again. This time until the website is certified as being fixed. Debbie Wasserman Schultz says thats bologna. Thats a direct quote. Rubios coworker in the u. S. Senator said rubios call for delay is ridiculous. So we see how its playing out in the political sense. But the problem is on the ground this isnt happening. Meanwhile florida Blue Cross Blue Shield announced 300,000 people whos ares a gett getting letters saying this is whats happening to your insurance, here are other plans you use qualify for. Some will pay more, some less. Debbie Wasserman Schultz talks about a cancer survivor paying about 1270 a month. She got the notice from florida blue turn its out shell only be playing640 a month. But the Success Stories are few and far between. Any Success Stories in nevada . They can cherry pick, they can do the same thing here. But the bottom line is, and we have similardom demographic here with the one of the largest hispanic populations in the country and the uninsured within that population is very, very high. They will not even have the Spanish Language portal up until the middle of next month, craig. So they have a real problem there, too. So the same story here as mark outlined in florida. Success stories very few and far between so far. John, mark, selena, giving folks an idea of whats happening around the country. Thank you so much for your insights. It is hands down one of the craziest plays youll ever see. Game three of the world series, above the the ninth, one out, game tied at four. Cardinals have runners on second and third. And then this. Here is the throw. He is the up entimpire makin calm, they will say hes safe. There was interference at third base. Chaos and arguing as the umpires explain even though cardinals runner Al Wlan Craig w was tagged out, 9 third baseman interfered. So craig was safe at the plate. Cardinals wh s win the game and the series two games to one. [ tires screech ] [ male announcer ] 1. 21 gigawatts. Today, thats easy. Ge is revolutionizing power. Supercharging turbines with advanced hardware and innovative software. Using data predictively to help power entire cities. So the turbines of today. Will power us all. Into the future. With 0calorie monk fruit in the raw. Its made with the natural, vineripened sweetness of fruit, so you can serve up deliciously sweet treats without all the sugar. Raw natural sweetness, raw natural success. Your Financial Advisor should focus on your longterm goals, not their shortterm agenda. [ woman ] if you have the nerve to believe that cookie cutters should be for cookies, not your investment strategy. If you believe in the sheer brilliance of a simple explanation. [ male announcer ] join the nearly 7 million investors who think like you do face time and think time make a difference. Join us. [ male announcer ] at edward jones, its how we make sense of investing. Time now to flash back to this day last year when in preparation for hurricane sandy, new jersey governor Chris Christie urged residents to use this common sense. How about we go by this rule. Anything that looks stupid, is stupid. Sandy, of course, left a path of destruction and severely crippled the new york city subway system, which on this very day in 1904, officially opened for business. A ride from any one of the 28 stations back then cost you a nickel. Back to politics. President obama and his family went to church this morning perhaps hoping to get a few minutes of peace and quiet and reflection. Is november 30th a realistic day for a come on, guys. Were going to church. Come on, guys. Theyre going to church. Back with the brain trust. Political strategist angela eye. Perry bacon from the grio. Politics never stops. Why the president went to church, former president bill clinton, politicking in virginia. Getting out the vote for his buddy. And gubernatorial candidate Terry Mcauliffe. Take a listen. The virtue of political extremism is that once you get people all torn up and upset, steam coming out of their ears, they will show up and vote. Will you care as much as they do and show up and vote . And getting africanamerican voters out, perry, we know that in virginia that could very well be the biggest challenge Terry Mcauliffe faces. According to politico blacks who make up about a fifth of the electorate are often the difference between victory and defeat for democrats running staid wide in the commonwealth. Why turn to bill clinton and not president obama . Right now bill clinton is more popular among voters overall. He also has very high numbers of africanamericans as well. Bill clinton you get, he helps moderate voters. Black voters as well. Right now president obama not as popular among moderate voters as a bill clinton whos been out of the scene some. It makes sense to me. Also not too much to worry about. Terry mcauliffe is pretty well in. Hes going to win this race. Im glad you brought that up. We saw Hillary Clinton last week or the week before. We see bill clinton now, were going to see him for the next three day. They really are not taking any chances. But every poll weve seen hes got fundraising ads, ahead in every major poll. Really quite odd, perry bacon. Im not surprised go ahead. Im not surprised by it. It makes sense. The only race going on this year. They want to get back involved in politics. If youre looking at 2016 and running for president this is the way to show help in the democratic party. They also really like mcauliffe, to be fair. A long time friend. Angela, white house, the media, we are undoubtedly going to be preoccupied this week with Kathleen Sebeliuss appearance before that House Committee tuesday. That is probably going to leave a great deal of other news virtually ignored. Like the cut in food stamps. 5 billion could be cut from that program this friday. Thats when an economic stimulus plan expires. Families could face even more cuts as a republican bill that the house passed, that passed this fall, would cut 40 billion from the program over ten years. Who would that affect . 48 Million People received assistance. The average monthly benefits, about 133. 45 of the recipients are children. Some 900,000 people who are on socalled food stamps. 900,000 of them are veterans. Angela, what happens if this issue falls through the cracks . Craig, its going to be a disaster. I think one thing that we need to make really clear for the viewers is that that automatic cut that happens november 1 because of ara theres a conference that has to take place to negotiate what happens with this farm bill. S. N. A. P. Is exactly that. Supplemental nutrition. There are folks who rely on this 4. 50 every day that will experience a cut regardless. This absolutely has to be addressed. Again, its a bipartisan issue. For 41 of the families that have this benefit, they also have a working person in their homes. Jennifer, how much of this particular issue, how much of this is actually about trying to save money and how much isbout pure politics . How much of this is about throwing red meat to a base that loves to hear how republicans are making sure that people on food stamps are the ones that really need to be on food stamps . Im sure there are congressmen on both sides of the aisle who like to spin up these issues. As president clinton was saying in a different context, this is my view. We have cut a lot, frankly, from discretionary spending. And in the big scheme of things, thats not where the money is. I think its been a mistake to begin cutting those programs dramatically, in some cases, and really not address the driver of the debt which is entitlement programs. It winds up just as angela was saying, with a disproposition gnat harm done to the poorest of americans. Were doing a generational transfer from young to old. Were going to have a lot of middleclass people benefit from medicare and social security. I think this is the wrong way to go about looking at our budget problems. And my preference would be not to go for the health the Food Stamp Cuts and frankly to look, again, at the sequester. In exchange for letting that money rise a little bit, lightning up on the sequester to try to do something at least Going Forward long haul on the entitlement side. Perry, really quickly here, Jennifer Rubin just brought up looking at the sequester. That is something we have heard from both parties wanting to take a look during these current budget negotiations, this Big Committee that theyre convening. Is that something thats politically feasible at this point . I think it is. Looking at replacing the sequester cuts with Something Different. Whether Something Different is going to be the debate, of course. Thats probably where we are. Were probably not going to have a big grand bargain. Therell be a smaller bargain op replacement se quest r cuts or other kinds of cuts. Political stratist, angela rye. Perry bacon from the grio. Jennifer rubin from the washington post. 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