>> boots on the ground. that is all we hear when it comes to dealing with isis. but what about ebola? what about medical boots on the ground? we will speak with owners that is just returned from sierra leone. to the political economy of ebola. who lives, who dies. finally, the politics of women's health care here at home. we will speak with amy hagstrom miller was just reopened her abortion clinic in texas after the supreme court blocked part of an antichoice law that would've required abortion clinics to meet the standards of hospital style surgery centers. problem wasn't a safety with abortion care in the state of texas that these laws were addressing. abortion has been safely provided for over 40 years in the date and small sort of doctors office based settings. morally, while it is and ethically complex for a lot of people, medically, it is quite a simple procedure. >> then katha pollitt on her new book, "pro: reclaiming abortion rights." calls for thinking of abortion as a positive social good. all that and more, coming up. welcome to democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. concerns about ebola in the united states have grown after the second texas nurse who contracted the virus reported the centers for disease control had allowed her to board a plane from ohio to texas the day before she was diagnosed. the nurse, amber joy vinson, complaining of symptoms but an official day for the ok to fly. two schools in cleveland will remain closed today because a staff member may have traveled aboard the same plane. on wednesday, vinson was transferred to an isolation unit at emory hospital in atlanta. president obama has canceled two days of planned travel to stay at the white house and oversee the government's response. the cdc director thomas frieden is set to testify before congress today at hearing on what u.s. officials are doing to contain the spread of the ebola virus. the head of texas health presbyterian, the dallas hospital where the two nurses were infected and thomas eric duncan died, is also expected to testify and issue an apology. meanwhile in west africa, nearly 5000 people have died as authorities struggle to contain the outbreak. in sierra leone's capital, police fired tear gas on people who took to the streets to complain the body of a woman who died from ebola was left on the street for two days. more of the ebola crisis after the headlines. the pentagon says hundreds of islamic state fighters have been killed in intensifying u.s.-led air strikes on the syrian town of kobani. rear admiral john kirby made the claim on wednesday. >> one of the reasons why you're seeing more strikes is there is more isil. we believe, and it is hard to give an exact number, but we believe we have killed several hundred isil fighters in and around kobani. >> the u.s.-led coalition has been hitting the area around kobani with the highest number of strikes since launching the bombing campaign in syria more than three weeks ago. it remains unclear if the strikes will stop isis fighters from capturing the mainly kurdish town. isis has seized about half of kobani, and the u.n. has warned of a massacre if they take full control the strikes come days after the obama administration appeared to distance itself from defending kobani, saying it was not a "strategic objective." speaking at the state department, special envoy john allen said the u.s. is focused on providing humanitarian aid there while stopping the isis advance in iraq's anbar province. >> we are actually focusing around kobani, providing airstrikes and humanitarian assistance and relief there, obviously, to give some time to the fighters to organize on the ground. poppins, hope is to halt or stop that momentum they have there. >> in his comments, allen also said the u.s. has abandoned training existing units of the rebel free syrian army, in favor of building out a new rebel force. >> it is not going happen immediately. the working to establish the training sites now and we will ultimately go through a vetting process to bring the trainers and the fighters into begin to build that forceout. >> general john allen says there has been "no formal coordination" with the fsa during the u.s.-led bombing of syria. his comments follow the leak of a cia study that said previous u.s. efforts to arm and train rebel groups have mostly failed. president obama first commissioned the study in 2012 as he weighed arming syrian rebels fighting the regime of basher al-assad. the findings fueled white house skepticism about backing the rebels, but obama went ahead with training efforts that have recently expanded to saudi arabia. although the cia found most u.s. attempts to prop up insurgent forces failed in countries such as cuba and nicaragua, there was one exception -- the mujahedeen rebels who fought the soviet union in afghanistan -- whose members would go on to form the core of al-qaeda. the united nations says a lack of funding has forced the cutting of food rations for up to one million people in afghanistan. the world food program director for afghanistan, claude jibidar, said a focus on other global crises has led to a shortfall. very>> it has become complicated with a lot of emergencies. just to name a few, what is happening in syria, iraq, south african republic, in sudan. mean, this emergencies are all having a toll on the capacity for the donors to provide afghanistan and afghanistan people with all they need. >> the cuts mean food rations will be reduced from 2,100 calories per day to around 1500. most of them are distributed to the hundreds of thousands of people who've fled fighting between the taliban and the afghan government. the arkansas supreme court has struck down the state's voter id law days before early voting is set to begin. the court ruled that requiring a voter to present photo identification is unconstitutional. state lawmakers approved the measure last year by overriding a veto from democratic governor mike beebe. a federal jury has awarded $4.6 million to the family of a homeless preacher who died after suffering police brutality. witnesses to the 2010 incident say marvin booker was forcibly restrained, tasered and then placed face-down in a holding cell. he was pronounced dead hours later in what the coroner ruled a homicide. booker's family won the federal suit against the city of denver and five of the officers involved. we will be broadcasting from denver, colorado on friday. a new york prisoner has been freed after 29 years behind bars for a crime he did not commit. david mccallum, who is african-american, was ordered released on wednesday after prosecutors said he had falsely confessed at the age of sixteen. mccallum and another man, the late willie stuckey, were convicted of a 1985 kidnapping and murder. no evidence tied them to the crime except their confessions, which prosecutors now say were likely coerced. recent dna and fingerprint testing has tied others to the stolen vehicle involved. stuckey died in 2001 behind bars. in his first comments as a free man, mccallum called the moment bittersweet because stuckey wasn't walking out of the courtroom by his side. like i finally get to go home. after 29 years, it is a bittersweet moment because i'm walking out alone. i'm sorry, excuse me. there someone else who supposed to be walking out with me. unfortunately, he is not. that is willie stuckey. >> how do you feel having lost three decades of your life for something you did not do? >> i mean, i've had a long time to think about that. unfortunately. but at the same time, i understand i cannot get that back. i think my life kind of starts from this point on. >> mccallum says he plans to become an advocate for the wrongly convicted. in doing so he would continue the legacy of another wrongfully convicted prisoner who himself championed mccallum's case -- the late boxer and activist rubin "hurricane" carter. carter was involved mccallum's case for a decade before his death earlier this year. in an article weeks before his passing, carter said his "final wish" was for a new look at mccallum's conviction. and those are some of the headlines. in the feminist is the forced to cancel a lecture in utah after the threat of death. this week, she was scheduled to give a lecture at utah state university when the university received an e-mail threatening to carry out the deadliest shooting in american history at the event. the e-mail sender wrote -- this anita canceled the talk after being told that under utah law, police could not prevent people from bringing guns to her lecture. a university spokesperson told the standard examiner newspaper the school had determined it was safe for her to speak because "the threat we received is not out of the norm for this woman." and those are some of the headlines. this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i am amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. >> welcome to all our listeners and viewers from around the country and around the world. centers for disease control director thomas frieden is set to testify before congress today at a hearing on what u.s. officials are doing to contain the spread of the ebola virus. this comes as two nurses have been placed in isolation at emory hospital in atlanta after they contracted ebola in texas while treating an infected patient who has since died. president obama canceled two days of planned travel to stay at the white house and oversee the government's response. after meeting with cabinet officials wednesday, he called for more aggressive action, while insisting that the risk of an outbreak in the united states is extremely low. >> i want to use myself as an example so people have a sense of defiance here. i shook hands with, hugged, and kissed -- not the doctors, but a couple nurses -- at emory because of the giant work they work they did in treating one of the patients. they follow the protocols. they knew what they were doing. i felt perfectly safe doing so. so this is not a situation in with the riskslu of a rapid spread of the disease are imminent. if we do these protocols properly, if we follow these steps, if we get the information out, the likelihood of widespread ebola outbreak in this country is very, very low. >> concerns about the spread of ebola in the united states grew after the second texas nurse who contracted the virus reported that the cdc had allowed her to board a plane from ohio to texas the day before she was diagnosed . another official said no one at the agency stopped her, even after she called to report she had an elevated temperature. today, two schools in cleveland announced they'll remain closed because a staff member may have traveled aboard the same plane. >> meanwhile in west africa, nearly 5,000 people have died as authorities struggle to contain the outbreak. in sierra leone's capital of freetown, police fired tear gas on people who took to the streets to complain that the body of a woman who died from ebola was left on the street for two days. this comes as a british nurse who has recovered from ebola after he contracted the disease in sierra leone says doctors told him his antibodies now make him immune to the virus for months to come. as a result, will pooley said he will return to the country to treat more patients. >> because there is still a lot of work to do out there, and, i mean, i'm in the same or better position than i was before when i chose to go before. , as with everyone's exposure, was an accident. it is something everyone will be thinking about. just vigilance, really, and being really cautious. >> well for more we go to atlanta where we're joined by michelle dynes, a nurse and epidemiologist at the centers for disease control and prevention. she spent the past several weeks responding to the ebola epidemic in the kenema district of sierra leone, and recently returned to atlanta. welcome to democracy now! can you talk about what you experienced in sierra leone? >> thank you for having me this morning. i spent about 5.5 weeks in sierra leone in the kenema district. i was a health promoter of the cdc, working to disseminate key messages about ebola to support the social mobilization and psychosocial efforts within the district. by the time i arrived in kenema hospital, over 20 nurses had contracted ebola and had died at that point. so i immediately realized the importance of supporting the staff who were there who have been working day in and day out from the very beginning, who needed their own psychosocial counseling in order to move forward in their own care. so i worked with the psychosocial team at kenema hospital and created a space for the health personnel to receive counseling and also for the survivors of ebola to receive counseling. we also worked in the communities in kenema district in order to support families who have been quarantined. we ask a came upon a woman one day who had lost 10 members of her family. two of them had died that very morning. sees a strange situation to that much pain and suffering and hug,t be able to thrive, a or comfort in that way. but it is important in a situation like that that you maintain distance and you just provide counseling and support in other ways. >> michelle dynes, could you explain to our viewers here what some of the conditions are under which you were operating in sierra leone and what the local medical staff have access to and what they don't have access to as they try to fight this deadly virus? >> in the ebola treatment centers, they have access to personal protective equipment, similar to that which is used in the united states. however, some of the issues that they had was getting supplies into the country due to reduced them are a flight and the country. so getting supplies don't go was definitely -- getting supplies in was definitely a challenge. they did use personal protective equipment, but there are not enough staff to take care of the ebola patients. and so staff oftentimes worked longer hours than they should .ave and kept coming day after day, putting their own lives at risk, essentially. >> michelle dynes come you told a story on story corps recently about what happened to a woman who brought her baby into a hospital. can you describe that story? >> shortly before i arrived in kenema, a woman had come into the treatment center sick with ebola. and she had brought her baby with her. the mother, unfortunately, tested positive for ebola, but the baby tested negative. in a situation like that come it is very, very difficult to know how to move forward with the care of the baby. because we know is health care providers, as public health professionals that the risk of that baby becoming ebola positive is quite high. we know the ebola virus is found in breast milk and that baby was breast-fed. situation, the hospital staff chose to give the baby in their presence so that they could monitor the baby for symptoms of ebola, especially, since the baby had tested negative initially. unfortunately, over time, the baby to develop ebola and the salsa workers had all placed themselves at risk -- those hospital workers at all placed themselves at risk by caring for the baby. this he can military inside of all of us that reaches out and says, we have to pick up this baby and take care of it. even though you know you are at risk. >> what happened to the nurses and the doctors they cared for this baby, coddled this baby? >> there were several nurses who contracted ebola as a result of contact with fav. unfortunately, many of them died since that time. >> and the baby? >> unfortunately, the baby also passed away. ebola is a very committed very difficult disease to treat. we can provide supportive measures, but in many cases, the body is unable to mount an effective immune response in the baby succumbed. rexam sure many people who watch -- who are watching this broadcast consider you a saint. you went to sierra leone when all of these nurses died, not to mention the many of the people they treated. how did you protect yourself? right now, there are two dove major issues in the world -- isis, boots on the ground, boots on the ground. what about medical boots on the ground when it comes to ebola? what it would mean tens of thousands of people like you in this country and around the care inovided help and places like sierra leone and liberia? but first, how do you protect yourself and what would that look like if people actually responded in this way? first, i want to make it clear that my role in sierra leone was not as a nurse, i was not providing direct care to patients. i was there and health promotion role, trying to make sure that communities were educated, that health care workers were properly trained. so being at kenema hospital and in that environment in general, we did take measures every single day to protect ourselves. there were buckets of chlorine water to wash your hands as you entered could much every building in the hospital. we used chlorine wipes to wipe down surfaces to protect ourselves. there were even roadblocks to prevent people coming in and outside of kenema city and kenema district, to make sure that people did not come in or leave with a fever. there are many, many ways that we were protecting ourselves. and for those who have considered going to help, those measures will continue. and you are there to help others, but you can't help others if you yourself become ill. >> this is a clip from a video of a sierra leone man that went viral last week about a man whose life was ripped apart by ebola. he lost his father, his two-year-old brother, and his stepmother who was six months pregnant and miscarried when sick in hospital. in a tearful plea, he called on the community to do more to stop the spread of the virus. i am thinking. come to our aid. we are afraid. let them come to our aid. anybody.have [indiscernible] man douda fullah of his family to ebola. can you talk about what you think the international community could be doing or should be doing in response to this crisis? >> the international community is doing a lot. the cdc is doing everything it can. we just need to continue these efforts and to step up even more , if that is possible. we are out teams of epidemiologists, teams of lab specialists, health promotion and health communication specialist, and infection control specialist. and now moving forward, if new cases occur in the united states, we're sending out rapid response teams to be there within hours on the ground to make sure that the ebola is contained. of course, in this country, but as much as possible, in west africa. >> something that is astounding sent something like 160 health professionals, country with something like 11 million people. "washington post" had a headline . that they sent that many health professionals to deal with this crisis. didn't the cdc put out a call in something like a group of eight people? if you look at what happened in texas, the number of people required just to deal with, first, mr. duncan, who died, and then the two nurses who went to his aid and they are now sick -- the number of people that are dealing with the ramifications of all of this, in this is just three people -- how many people are needed to go into these west african countries to help? and i wanted to also ask what your thought is about those in congress who are calling for, basically, a court on around these countries, stopping planes from going in and out of these countries, what this would mean, would in fact, this increase the mean, of an ebola -- i there already is an epidemic, but an explosion? needthink that we hundreds, if not thousands, of additional support in west africa to help contain ebola. of preventing planes from coming in were leaving those countries would be to even greater difficulties in getting necessary supplies to the places like kenema hospital, where they are treating ebola patients. ,hile i can't speak for the cdc i think making broad decisions like that would only hurt the situation even further. and we do support that these countries are receiving from -- and reduce support the these countries are receiving from the international committed he. >> michelle dynes, thank you for joining us. nurse and epidemiologist at the centers for disease control and prevention. she spent the past several weeks responding to the ebola epidemic in the kenema district of sierra leone. if people do want to help, get involved, especially health professionals, what way do they have to link in? >> there are many international nongovernmental organizations that people can get involved. for example, there are who volunteers, the red cross societies from around the world are sending in volunteers, and many other organizations such as ms, doctors without borders. i would recommendf that people find the organization that really speaks to them and the type of work in support they are providing, and look into those opportunities. , thanks so dynes much. , awe bring in leigh phillips science writer and eu affairs journalist. his writing has appeared in nature, the guardian, and scientific american. his recent piece for jacobin is headlined "the political economy of ebola." what do you mean by this, the political economy of ebola? ati think we need to look the political and economic circumstances, particularly, diseasehis particular both in the united states and western countries in terms of the funding for research, where that is coming from, and in terms of austerity in europe but also austerity in west africa as well. there is the sort of two prongs to this. the first, of course, over the last few months, we have seen over and over again, people from the cdc, senior figures from the who, even john ashton, the head of the u.k. faculty of health basically, the knowledge is there, the know-how five vaccinesave and a number of other treatments that are well in hand, but there just hasn't been any by and from the major from cynical companies. from the major forms single companies. it was described as the moral bankruptcy of capitalism. quite explosive language, but it really expresses the language -- anger that researchers feel about we know what to do here, but this is just an unprofitable disease. >> could you elaborate, leigh phillips, on the point you make an article about why does pharmaceutical companies are more interested in funding medications that people have to take over long-term rather than investing in one off medicines like vaccines. >> it is fairly straightforward. the argument is not that the major pharmaceutical companies are somehow evil or benevolent, this is just the way it works. malevolent, this is just the way it works. we're going to resolve the situation, we're going to basically cure it. we're not going to handle it for the long term. we want something, some drug or vaccine or treatment that people will take once, twice, maybe for a short time and that is it. we don't want to be dealing with this for the rest -- somebody doesn't want to be dealing with this for the rest of their life. compare that to the situation with, say, insulin for diabetes or other drugs that people might need to take every day for the rest of their lives. any sort of major pharmaceutical company, they're trying to decide whether they're going to invest, roughly, round $1 billion maybe investment into any new drug. are they going to invest that money in a product that is going to have a very low return on the investment or not much of a return in investment at all, or something that is much more likely to have quite a high return on investment? it is a bit of a no-brainer where they will focus their money. , in manyee is, ebola cases, is just an example of a wider problem we have with pharmaceutical research. antibody resistance right now is --ery commandery frightening antibiotic resistance right now is a very, very frightening situation. we're facing a 30 year, what is called in research journals, discovery avoid that pharmaceutical companies have forgot three decades now refused to engage in any -- developing of any new classes of antibiotics. ofre coming toward the end the efficacy of the antibiotics we have at the moment. we have about five to 20 years left before we see a fairly in bacterialase infections. >> i just want -- >> yes? >> you are speaking to us from vancouver, canada. were you have a public health care system. the article you wrote is called "socialized big pharma." for private drug companies, for these mega-multinational corporations to invest in a vaccine, for example, for ebola, is not profitable for them. so what then is the solution? this, of course, is really magnifying this issue on a global stage. systems in theth united states and all over have so deteriorated. can you talk about your point, socializing big pharma? >> absolutely. i think we look at most western companies in the postwar period, most western countries nationalized their health care systems to a greater or lesser degree. theunited states is one of only countries that hasn't done this yet, but it is still pretty much -- the united states is even moving in that direction. this is basically half of the task. the other half is to bring in the pharmaceutical sector into the public sector. for exactly the same reasons, that it is simply too dangerous an issue for this to be left to the profit motive within the market. >> what would that look like? >> recognizing this is a market sell your -- this is just on a far left announcement. this is recommended across the board that [indiscernible] the companies themselves recognize this. the solution is either a fairly major public intervention to fill that gap or, as i argue, if we can use the profits from -- the revenues from profitable drugs to subsidize the research and development and commercialization of unprofitable diseases, we are going to come as a society, spend far less to solve this problem anyway. that is the simple calculus. >> another point you make in your article is that it is not going settle just coincidental that ebola is affecting some of the poorest countries in the world. could you talk about some of the collapse of the infrastructure, public infrastructure in liberia and in sierra leone that has allowed this virus to spread as rapidly as it has? and what contributed to the collapse of public infrastructure? >> absolutely. one of the frustrating things with this issue is how it really demonstrates, as john ashton wrote in the u.k., this is the more legacy of capitalism not just on the terms of research, but in west africa as well. in spain. we see the same profit from the same free market driving ideology that has reduced these ountries to real dire poverty. i mean, really right at the bottom of the global tables. their public health care infrastructure has been utterly decimated, not by civil war but a series of processes that were imposed by western countries, international financial organizations like the international monetary fund. the imf itself recognizes this because just last week, christine lagarde, the head of the imf, said to west africa, look, now is not the time to be whirring about your spending. go ahead and increase your spending. she finished her comments by saying, we don't normally say this. this is true. the sort of structural adjustment that has been opposed in this country and many other countries as well is -- imposed in this country and many other countries as well, is part of the decimation of the infrastructure of health care in these countries. we're seeing the exact same processes in spain. the european union has imposed since the economic crisis, the eurozone crisis, a series of absolutely little austerity programs in the southern flank of spain, italy, greece, portugal, and ireland as well. part of the response -- the results of this has been, again, a real deterioration of public infrastructure. spain has seen basically one quarter of its spending on health care cut for the last few years annually. so you see nurses and other medics marching in the streets them whitehey call ties because they are wearing their white lab coats, protesting what is happening with austerity. the hospital where we have seen the cases in spain, their isolation ward was shutdown directly as a result of the imposition of austerity by brussels and the decisions in madrid. thes, on both ins, both market failure in terms of pharmaceutical research and the decimation of public health care infrastructure, both in west africa and in europe, it is two sides of the same coin. they both put capitalism in the dark here. mine, geographer, rob wallace, he is a wonderful phrase about this, about a passage -- pathogens follow inequality and expert creations like waterfalls -- water follows cracks we need to ask whether capitalism itselfin ice. is not pathogenic, whether neoliberalism is not pathogenic. clocks leigh phillips, we have to leave it there. leigh phillips is a science writer and eu affairs journalist. we will link to your piece in jacobin is headlined "the political economy of ebola." when we come back, women's health care here at home. stay with us. ♪ [music break] >> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. >> return now to texas where abortion clinics shuttered by court ruling earlier this month had been allowed to reopen. this comes after the supreme court blocked part of an anti-choice law tuesday that would have required abortion clinics to meet the standards of hospital style surgery centers. it was just two weeks ago the fifth circuit court of appeals had allowed the rule to go into effect immediately, essentially gutting access to abortion overnight. urging clinics were forced to close, leaving just eight in all of texas, all of them clustered in four metropolitan areas. the latest move by the supreme court will allow the clinics to continue providing care while the appeals court considers the law. at least eight have reportedly are ready reopen. talks when texas clinics to remain closed under another of the law's provisions, which requires abortion providers to obtain it any privileges at a nearby hospital. tuesday come the supreme court blocked that requirement as it applies to two clinics in the isolated communities of el paso in west texas and mcallen in the rio grande valley. that will allow whole woman's health in mcallen to begin providing abortions again after it had closed earlier this month due to the appeals court ruling. it is the only clinic crowley open in the rio grande valley, in fact, the only one south of san antonio. , holiness health ceo and founder amy hagstrom miller joins us now from charlottesville, virginia. her clinic in mcallen, texas will start seeing patients again tomorrow. welcome to democracy now! explain what has happened. your clinic is open. then it is closed. that it is open. >> we've had 18 months of what feels like whiplash were we've and open, closed, open, closed. it is been a challenge not only for the women in the community to kind of know what they can count on and where they can go to get services, but it is been challenging for my staff to really have such an unstable type of environment in which to answer the questions from women in the community about where they can go and what care they can get. in the open and mcallen mid-closed in march and then we were able to reopen once we got that injunction. it was just for a month. we are reopened again and starting to schedule patients again tomorrow. we're hopeful this injunction will protect us and the court will recognize the undue burden that women in the valley are facing. >> could you also talk about your response to the supreme court decision when you initially heard? >> it was one of the first times i think in the last 18 months that are really kind of let out a little shout of joy. it was surprising, mainly because both kennedy and roberts ruled in our favor and i think in our case, we clearly demonstrated this law has death into do with -- this law has nothing to do with medical facts. there are politics involved. the admitting privileges in the inventory surgical center requirements combined together to close clinics down and access to safe, compassionate abortion care groups the lives and health of women all over the state. i am encouraged that we have gotten this injunction from the supreme court and i'm encouraged it will protect us for a while so we can be available to the women in the state. >> in a memo to the super in court defending the antitrust laws, the texas attorney general, greg abbott who is running for governor come and his colleagues wrote -- we turn for those in more remote areas, abbott wrote -- again, greg abbott is running for governor against texas state senator wendy davis, who opposed the anti-choice bill in an 11 hour filibuster last summer. amy hagstrom miller, your response? >> there are over one million women of reproductive age that lived more than 250 miles from a clinic. texas is a very large state both by population and by geography. for him to sort of swiped is women under the rug as though they don't matter, is really telling to how he is going to approach the governing of women in rural reason the committed to, women without health care coverage, and women who really need our advocacy the most. , thankhagstrom miller you for joining us. she is been working in abortion care since 1989. she's the founder and ceo of whole woman's health. this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. return now to our next guest. we continue to discuss the crisis in abortion access as we turn to a new book that offers a new vision for the pro-choice movement. it is called "pro: reclaiming abortion rights." we're joined by katha pollitt. why "pro"? >> i chose that title because i wanted to make a positive case for abortion rights as opposed to the negative case of if abortion is illegal, women will die. which is true. i wanted to talk about how abortion is part of what makes it possible for women to have a decent, reasonable life in which they have children when they're ready to have them and it is good for everybody. to begood for children wanted and well-timed and good for men, too. we forget that. when you have women having these -- expected to have random children with random man just because a straight sperm gets in their womb it is not good for anybody. >> you say you have address the book to those in the middle of the abortion debate in the united states. as you say, millions of americans, more than half who don't want to ban abortion exactly, but don't wanted to be widely available, either. how do you explain that middle space? >> i think abortion is for a stigmatized. it is connected with ideas about have and sex, like you can an abortion if you have been raped, but if you had voluntary sex, too bad. a lot of people feel that way. most abortion in the united social, economic, and personal reasons. it is not for the really hard cases. maybe 10% is for rate and invest incest.and most is because woman is in school, she doesn't have any money, she doesn't have a partner doesn't want to be a single mother. and reasons like that. but those reasons, which basically say this should be a woman's decision because having children when you want to have children is very important to women's lives. i think that is a harder message for middle-of-the-road people to take in. >> we're going to continue to talk with katha pollitt about abortion as a moral right, after this. ♪ [music break] >> this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman with nermeen shaikh. last year, planned parenthood announced it was moving away from the term pro-choice. it launched a campaign called "not in her shoes" with this video message. while we wait for that to come up, i would like to ask you about your position on that, the ,anguage that has been used they say pro-choice, anti-choice, as opposed to pro-life, which is what most people who are opposed to abortion call the term. >> in my burke, iw's the term pro-life and i explain why i made that decision, which is i think it is a propagandist word. they're not pro-life, their antiabortion. it is a rear pro-lifer who is against the death penalty, whose against war, who favors all of the things people need to flourish and stay healthy and live. they have tied themselves to the republican party, which doesn't support any of that. term opponents of abortion, awkward as that is. and sometimes i use the term anti-choice, although, i tried not to. >> why not? >> i can remember exactly why. it is a term they find so offensive. i did not want to provide them with a hot button issue. i wanted it to be sort of fare. i think pro-choice is a fair term. >> let's go to that planned parenthood clip we have ready now, "not in her shoes." >> most things in life are not simple, and that includes abortion. it can be complicated, personal. for many people, it is not a black and white issue. so why do people try to label it like it is? pro-choice? pro-life? the truth is, these labels simply don't reflect how people actually feel about abortion. a majority of americans believe abortion should remain safe and legal. many just don't use the words "pro-choice." they don't necessarily identify as "pro-life" either. the truth is, they just want to be labeled. trucks that his plan to campaign. your response? -- i'm not able to speak to whether people identify with labels are not, but i would say that when you say it is not ,lack and white, it is gray you're putting it on the wrong footing. it is black and white. what the right should be is a black-and-white issue. how people feel about it is something entirely different, it seems to me. people can have all kinds of feelings about abortion. madecould say, my abortion me sad, say my life, someone else's abortion makes me angry. but what the law should be is not to be decided by individuals feelings about it. this is a question of rights. >> you talk to buy your own mother in the book. an illegalr had abortion in 1960, which is when the birth control pill came out -- a little late for her. i never knew. i found out when my father, after her death, got her fbi file. >> her fbi file? >> this tells you something abortion.illegal the fbi knew. they knew what was going on with -- chronological optically gynecological he. not only did my mother have an abortion, my great-grandmother had an abortion during world war i back in russia. i think in the book, she had each of them by then but my cousin tells me it was nine children. so this tells you how embedded in women's reproductive lives is abortion. it goes back 4000 years, anthropologists tells us. it is not newfangled after robie wade. >> an abortion counselor at a clinic in new jersey, emily let ts, helped her own abortion and posted it online. in her video, she picks late her reasons for wanting to share her story publicly. >> i talk to women all the time and and they say, of course, everyone is so sad, everyone is going to feel guilty. it is a given how people should feel about this, that what they're doing is wrong. that person. i don't feel sad. i feel in awe in the fact i can make a baby, i can make a life. i knew what was going to do was write, because it was right for me and no one else. >> she filmed her own abortion and posted it online. katha pollitt, you talk about the stigmatization of abortion leading to the criminalization of abortion. could you elaborate? >> i want to point of my great-grandmother died of that abortion. that is an important piece of the story. that is what happens when abortion is illegal and you don't get good medical care. stigmatization of abortion, i feel in we talk about abortion, it could be safe, legal, and rare, which is how hillary clinton put it and they democratic party often frames it. or it is the most difficult decision a woman makes. it is also terrible and i can i sing. you are kind of conceding a lot to the people who say, yes, it is a terrible decision and should be rare, let's make it hard to get. it's hard to say, here's this terrible thing you're going to do, so we have to keep it legal so you won't do it illegally. that is not a ringing cry that to the truth,ple which is, abortion is a part of reproductive -- women's reproductive lives. one in three american women will have an abortion by menopause. 60% are already mothers. this picture we have of the slut t teenager, the coldy hearted career woman, it is simply false. it is not the typical abortion patient. >> it is the point of obvious child, the feature film out. i want to ask about reproductive justice, a framework founded by women of color which uses the lens of human rights to look at the right to parent, to raise children in a healthy environment as well as the right to an abortion. this is loretta ross talking about reproductive justice in an interview for the pbs series "makers." >> we kind of spliced reproductive rights and social justice together to come up with reproductive justice. which was a human rights way of looking at the totality of women's lives, so that question of, will i keep my job if i become pregnant or decide to become a mother is not irrelevant anymore. or do i have health care is not irrelevant anymore to the abortion decision. >> that is loretta justice, the atlanta georgia -- rather, loretta ross. talk about reproductive justice. >> it is great. i wish it had fewer syllables. i am pro-reproductive justice is a little awkward. it is exactly right. the abortion decision is made in a social context, childbearing decision is also made in a social context, and we should have a society where a woman who doesn't want to stay pregnant can do that and a woman who wants to have a baby and raise that they be well can do that, too. society's we the say, oh, you're pregnant, yet have a baby. oh, you have a baby, screw you. why did you do that? we do so little to help mothers and children and families in society. we don't even have paid maternity leave. so women are really left to carry often alone the tremendous burden of producing and raising the next generation. what kind of society does that? >> i want to end with our last anita who'say about been forced to cancel a talk after threats of a shooting massacre. she was deeply concerned the university would not been people from the talk caring in guns. rying in guns. how safe do think women are in this country now, expressing their views around the quality and reproductive rights? >> well, there are risks. we see this with the whole gamer gate thing. look, the antiabortion people have killed people. they kill doctors and health care providers, but it has been tremendously discouraging to the whole of abortion committee to think, if i from this necessary service that women want and need, i could be murdered. that is what we have come to in this country. , thank you fort being with us. her new book is called, "pro: reclaiming abortion rights." toure sets off for her around the country to talk about these issues. gonzalez speaks in columbus at 1:00 p.m. democracy now! is looking for (dramatic music playing) goodbye, baby. (gunshots) great noir poses the question: why me? that sense of knowing what you are doing is doomed and you can't stop from doing it. annenberg media ♪ and: