? sharyl: welcome to "full measure." i'm sharyl attkisson. we begin our second season of "full measure" on an important anniversary -- september 11, 2016, 15 years to the day after extremists. that day fundamentally changed our lives and the world as we knew it. today, we examine the cost of terror in the decade and a half since. we start with the terrible toll of that morning. 265 people died on four planes boarded by suicide hijackers. 2606 were killed in the world trade center and surrounding area. 125 lost their lives in the pentagon. 6,000 more were injured. on september 20th, days after launched the war on terror and that war continues today. islamic terrorism is on the rise in the u.s. and worldwide. it is, 15 years later, still a top concern among americans. in a "full measure"/"rasmussen reports" poll we asked -- is the united states today safer than it was before the 9/11 terrorist attacks? only 27% said yes. 55% said no. and 18% are not sure. how confident are you that the u.s. government can protect its citizens from future domestic terrorist attacks? 11% are very confident, 36% are somewhat confident, 31% are not very confident, and 19% not at all confident. we don't feel any safer. and we are basically split on the government's ability to protect us from a terrorist attack. that despite an enormous sum of tax money spent and a radical change in the american way of life in one short, difficult generation. jane rhodes-wolf: we heard the see a little debris in the air, almost looked like confetti. sharyl: jane rhodes-wolf was an fbi agent on assignment a few blocks from the world trade center. ms. rhodes-wolf: as a member of our evidence response team, i recall getting my boots on and my ray jacket and starting to make my way down towards the world trade center. sharyl: later, when zacarias moussaoui, the so-called 20th hijacker, was put on trial, rhodes-wolf was on the fbi team that helped prosecute the case. ms. rhodes-wolf: which also included listening to the 911 tapes. intimate thing we would listen to. we would hear people dying on the phone. >> everybody's having trouble breathing? >> everybody's having trouble breathing. some people are worse. sharyl: now, 15 years after those many lives taken, america is grappling with the unforeseen tolls. costs few could have envisioned. ms. rhodes-wolf: when you think about the fact that al-qaeda executed that plan for approximately $450,000, i hate to say the return on their got. that's part of their motivation was to change our society and change our way of life. sharyl: we have changed our society in response. ms. rhodes-wolf: absolutely. absolutely. sharyl: senator ron johnson leads a congressional committee that oversees the nation's homeland security efforts. 15 years after 9/11, it's the terrorists versus us. who's won so far? sen. johnson: well, certainly in terms of their goal of disrupting our lives, the terrorists have won. we don't even recognize how many of our freedoms have been taken away from us. how it has disrupted our lives. sharyl: for johnson and other conservatives, attacks on freedom include the moves to restrict gun rights. for liberals, it's typified by the government's massive utah data center, holding more information about our lives than we know with no clear proof that it's ever foiled a terrorist plot. an entire generation knows little of the america that existed before 9/11, when some actually looked forward to a trip to the airport. it makes no difference where they are located, be it berlin, london, new york, tokyo, or los angeles. airports are downright exciting. sharyl: this is today's inconvenient reality. a traveler captured a seemingly endless security line last may. >> let's see how long this thing is. sharyl: at chicago's midway airport. >> we're just getting started. sharyl: an incredible $70 billion tax dollars have been spent on the transportation security administration -- more than 42,000 tsa employees screen pass at more than 400 u.s. airports. and there's a whole generation that doesn't know what this is like -- walking freely into a sports stadium or federal building. those days are gone. today's reality -- metal detectors and handheld wand checks. president bush signed the homeland security act on november 25, 2002, a law combining more than twenty federal agencies into one massive entity -- the department of homeland security. agencies for national security -- $30 billion to the fbi's counterterrorism efforts. we've also spent more than $3 billion tightening port protection with cameras, cargo screening, and fences. david espie, head of maryland port security, points out there have been no terrorist attacks on america's 360 ports. david: we have a very strong infrastructure and terrorists, as you've seen in the past years, target the soft targets , where there's no anticipation of such behavior. we anticipate such behavior every second of the day. sharyl: but amid the successes, the department of homeland security has become a wildly bloated bureaucracy. the budget now tops $64 billon tax dollars a year. number of employees -- 240,000. enough to fill yankee stadium. about five times. sen. johnson: the motivation of the government is the exact same thing as private sector. you know, so, the department of homeland security is no different from any other government agency or department. it wants to grow. sharyl: when you look at the department of homeland security today, what are your reflections on that agency? prof. nichols: i'm trying to figure out why the department of homeland security is worried about people who are deep-frying turkeys. sharyl: thomas nichols is a professor of national security affairs at the u.s. naval war college. he studies the h prof. nichols: at one point, homeland security put out a reminder that if you throw a frozen turkey into a giant vat of boiling oil, you could get hurt. which is true. no one would recommend that you throw a giant frozen bird into a vat of oil. but i don't understand how that became a homeland security issue. >> watch how easy it is to top over. sharyl: and what does tell you? prof nichols: it tells me that they're looking for things to do. sharyl: and, apparently, looking for ways to spend your tax some of homeland security's $50 billion in anti-terrorism grants has gone to questionable expenses. like a conference at san diego's posh paradise point island resort where, believe it or not, this was part of the supposed emergency response training -- a live "zombie apocalypse" demonstration. and after $70 billion spent on tsa, an inspector general report leaked last year showed testers and bombs past federal screeners 96% of the time. but this multi-billion-dollar vision of a new homeland security headquarters, shown in an artist's rendition, may be the most tangible example of a boondoggle. after 10 years, it's still a construction zone marred by cost overruns and delays. what are some of your observations about the incredible amount of money and effort that's been put into this agency? prof. nichols: when large are told to do things, they tend to create more, large bureaucracies. so i think the answer to spend a lot of money, to employ a lot of people, to build a lot of buildings, was an understandable reaction, but it was not an efficient reaction. sharyl: the biggest single post-9/11 cost is war. an estimated $3 trillion tax dollars has been committed to the conflicts in afghanistan, iraq, and other strongholds of islamic extremist terrorists. all told, it is estimated the american war on terror cost more than $30 million an hour, every hour for the past 15 years -- about $4 trillion tax dollars. all that money -- and some on the front lines insist we're back to square one. >> and as far as immigration is concerned, everything that we did after 9/11 to prevent it has all been undone. sharyl: this federal officer who works in the u.s. immigration system doesn't want to be >> if i were to find the men that went on to become the 9/11 hijackers, if they found them today, they would be legally deportable because they overstayed their visas. but because of the policies in place, no immigration officer could take any action against them. after they kill people, then we can deport them. we just keep making the same mistakes. more innocent people will die because we refuse to enforce the law. plain and simple. sharyl: as chairman of the senate homeland securi night? sen. johnson: our borders are not secure. if you're concerned about isis operatives coming to america, yeah, be concerned about refugees, be concerned about the visa waiver program, but be really concerned about our completely porous, particularly, southern border. sharyl: that, even though the number of border patrol agents has doubled to 21,000 and its budget has more than tripled to $13 billion a year. gil kerlikowske: people need to realize that the border is much more secure than it's ever been. sharyl: gil kerlikowske is head how much focus is going into the idea of terrorists crossing the border? mr. kerlikowske: terrorism is a concern whether it would be the people that came in through 9/11 that entered the country and went through the process or whether it's homegrown terrorists, young people who are influenced by the media and influenced, frankly, through the internet to create a terrorist act. of information sharing among agencies, in particular the federal government to the local government. that's changed dramatically. sharyl: rhodes-wolf, now retired from the fbi, says we've done a good job fighting a nimble, unpredictable enemy. when i say what's been the cost of terror, what do you think? ms. rhodes-wolf: i will never forget the lives, the voices i listened to as they died on the telephone, some of them screaming for help. call, i've listened to it probably 100 times. she cared for her friends, she cared for her family, and her coworkers, and she actually dies saying the lord's prayer. >> hold on one second please. >> i'm gonna die aren't i? >> no no no no no. >> i'm gonna die. >> ma'am, say your prayers. ms. rhodes-wolf: melissa doy is my memory. >> ma'am, melissa? the phone is still open. melissa? melissa? [dial tone] ? sharyl: when we return, scott thuman's report on the self-proclaimed "most hated man in britain." he's blamed for sending hundreds of radicalized men to fight for isis. this week, he was sentenced in ? called himself the "most hated man in britain." this week, the radical muslim cleric was sentenced to five and a half years in prison on charges of supporting isis. scott thuman reports from london on how the most hated man became the most-wanted, as britain tries to stop a generation from being recruited as terrorists. >> you are guilty until proven otherwise. scott: few men have been more radical and more influential over the years than anjem attorney turned unofficial mouthpiece and recruiter for isis. sean: you have to follow your laws or die? anjem: of course, that would be the law of the land. that would be the law of the land. under america, you would abide by the sharia. sean: okay. anjem choudary, i still think you're an evil s.o.b. scott: for roughly two decades his charisma and reach knew few boundaries, a charm with deadly consequences. choudary had, at the very least, indirect, if not strong links to those responsible for the 7/7 bombings in london that killed 52 people, the main executer in isis videos, sidartha dhar, shoe-bomber richard reid, a plot to blow up the london stock exchange, and planning for mumbai-style attacks elsewhere. it was also his inspiration to lone wolf attacks that frightened so many. perhaps nothing shocked the more on the map, than what happened here three years ago on a day just like this. when followers of his ran down, then hacked to death an off-duty soldier named lee rigby. so, how much safer is the world with anjem choudary behind bars? raffaelo pantucci: i mean, sadly, at this point, his message is out there and it's gone beyond him in many ways, so his removal isn't going to necessarily change that picture. scott: as head of international security studies for the royal united services institute, choudary's path many times. raffaelo: i think this is often an overlooked fact. within every terrorist network, there is always a very charismatic leader at its core and this individual has the natural charisma and personality to drive this community forwards and this message forwards. scott: not just in the u.k., but around the globe, an undetermined number of young men and women hung on choudary's every word and many doing much that is choudary personally converting richard dart to islam. the then 26-year-old former bbc security guard grew up in the country alongside robb leech, his stepbrother, who decided to document the religious change in "my brother, the islamist" a film ominously follwed by "my brother, the terrorist." robb: the moment i became concerned when we saw him alongside anjem choudary in a national newspaper. that was the moment when alarm bells really started ringing. scott: leech was truly alarmed when taking a stroll together through london's streets. robb: and saying, look at all this filthy kaffar. kaffar is disbelievers. look at all this filthy kaffar. when the sharia comes, all of this will be gone. scott: it was only after choudary went well beyond his rhetoric-filled road shows and scolding of so-called sinners on ga police finally arrested him for inciting support for and being a member of isis after his lectures were posted online. omer el-hamdoon is one of many religious leaders in london, relieved choudary is off the streets. omer el-hamdoon: the muslim community and the muslim council of britain has said for a long time that someone like this has already been banned from mosques, he's not been allowed, you know the muslim community voice has been provided by the media. scott: so, one of the biggest benefits of him being behind bars is that he won't be able to pop in front of the tv cameras? omer el-hamdoon: exactly. there's going to be a very good benefit to that. scott: yet he and others are hesitant to call this conviction a resolution. and in way too many occassions, the damage has already been done. robb: my stepbrother is already in prison. situation or dead. either fighting with isis or the taliban or al-qaeda. sharyl: the judge in sentencing declared choudary is still a danger, even in jail, stating he had no doubt he would continue to spread his message. still ahead on "full measure" -- the war on terror is the longest war in american history. how can we win? we'll talk with a former obama administration top general who has a plan and says he was fired sharyl: president obama's refusal to use the words "islamic extremism" in the war on terror has confounded even some high-ranking members of his own administration. one of them was head of the defense intelligence agency, lt. general michael flynn. in 2014, general flynn lost his job over testimony he gave to congress about the radical ideology behind the terrorists' jihad. in his new book, "field of fight," he outlines his plan to we spoke with general flynn and asked, what was the uncomfortable truth he told congress that caused the obama administration to fire him? fmr. lt. gen. flynn: the truth was that we are facing an enemy , in radical islamism, that is something our administration, the current administration doesn't even want to describe, so it does a disservice for the american public. we also have to look at the ideology that exists within these groups. they share an ideology and i would add that to the definition of core. it's not just the senior leadership in al-qaeda, in pakistan. it's also this shared ideology that many of these extremist groups have. i think that that's something that we have to consider as we look at every single one of them. sharyl: you were called into a room? fmr. lt. gen. flynn: i was called into a room in the pentagon by two individuals, the director of national intelligence and the under secretary defense for i'm done, you're done. sharyl: did you imagine when you answered honestly at that congressional hearing that you might lose your job over it? fmr. lt. gen. flynn: no, i never did. never did. sharyl: how do you explain the disconnect between what you see as the truth with what we face and what we hear from this administration? fmr. lt. gen. flynn: i think he sees that we are not facing something that should be described as a radical islamic extremist view. he doesn't want to use that phrase because i think he believes it's going to be against the ideology of islam and he can have that judgement, obviously he does. but what it does is it does a disservice to the people of america and actually it treats us like we're a bunch of idiots. sharyl: in 2007, you said that we, in the u.s., our intelligence services were watching two terror training camps and yet forbidden from fmr. lt. gen. flynn: there were two training camps, in somalia, in the fall of 2007, approximately 150 per camp, training and we're watching them and there was some decisions that needed to be made whether or not we destroy this training camp. the decision was made don't do anything and i think it was because there were women and children at risk there. so, we ended up with 300 terrorists har , most of them are still probably out on the battlefield conducting the types of operations we're seeing happen around the world today. sharyl: in fact, you knew one of them? fmr. lt. gen. flynn: one of them was an american that ended up committing an attack, a suicide bombing attack, just outside of djibouti, but it was the first time that i was aware of that a u.s. citizen who we knew trained there in these camps and then conducted a suicide vest attack. sharyl: and, in essence, we allowed it to happen by not taking action. fmr. lt. gen. flynn: we allowed this person. what i can guarantee you is people who trained in that camp are out and about doing things. sharyl: if this is our policy, how can we possibly win this war? fmr. lt. gen. flynn: we have to first clearly define the enemy. we have to clearly define it. sharyl: but we keep hearing it doesn't matter what you call it. fmr. lt. gen. flynn: we've been told by our president what difference does it make if you know your enemy? so, first thing we have to do is know our enemy, clearly define them. the second part of this is really to begin to discredit this ideology. discredit it in as many ways as we can, to prove this false idea that exists. sharyl: the former general is sharyl: a final thought on this 9/11 anniversary. some of the costs of terror can't be quantified. like the cost to our collective psyche. most everyone who's old enough remembers where they were on 9/11. i was driving to work when i saw smoke rising from the pentagon it was terrible. but, in covering the story, i got to see the best of our first responders and our military. through them, we saw the best of america. this photo at ground zero was given to me by a young man i interviewed who helped the injured. he said the flag signifies hope and resilience. i think it shows that we'll never lose what it means to be an american. thank you for watching. i'm sharyl attkisson. we'll see you next week. an in depth look at the people and events that shape our community.this is iowa in focus.this week -- 15 years since 9-11 -- we look at how it's shaped politics in the 21st century.then we sit down with one of the men at the center of the battle of benghazi welcome to iowa in focus -- we're giving context to wt on the campaign trail.but today is also the 15th anniversary of the september 11th attacks in new york city -- washington d-c and pennsylvania.a big chunk of the show today will look back at that day -- and how terrorism affects politics around the world. world.for now -- we start with the barnstorm. a full week ago -- arizona senator jeff flake continued to attack donald trump. trump.senator flake has been critical of trump from the