Transcripts For KCSM Democracy Now 20170704 : comparemela.co

the dakota pipeline. into something that is going to come back and haunt -- if not us today, but the future. amy: we will speak with the chair in south dakota. plus, we speak with the grandson of former vice president henry wallace, who spoke against fascism in america more than 70 years ago. the wallace global fund recently sioux $1tanding rock million for wind and solar renewable energy projects. all of that and more coming up. this is democracynow, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i am amy goodman. today, in this holiday special, we begin with the words of frederick douglass. born into slavery around 1818, douglass would escape, head north and become a key leader of the abolition movement. on july 5th, 1852, in rochester, new york, 165 years ago, douglass gave one of his most famous speeches, "the meaning of july fourth for the negro." he was addressing the rochester ladies' anti-slavery society. this is actor james earl jones reading douglass's historic address during a performance of the late, great historian howard howard zinn's voices of a people's history of the united states. at the time, james earl jones was introduced by howard zinn. howard zinn: frederick douglass, once a slave, became a brilliant and powerful leader of the anti-slavery movement. in 1852, he was asked to speak in celebration of the fourth of july. frederick douglass: [read by james earl jones] fellow citizens, pardon me, allow me to ask, why am i called upon to speak here to-day? what have i, or those i represent, to do with your national independence? are the great principles of political freedom and of natural justice, embodied in that declaration of independence, extended to us? and am i, therefore, called upon to bring our humble offering to the national altar, and to confess the benefits and express devout gratitude for the blessings resulting from your independence to us? i am not included within the pale of this glorious anniversary! your high independence only reveals the immeasurable distance between us. the blessings in which you this day rejoice are not enjoyed in common. the rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity, and independence bequeathed by your fathers is shared by you, not by me. the sunlight that brought life and healing to you has brought stripes and death to me. this fourth of july is yours, not mine. you may rejoice, i must mourn. to drag a man in fetters into the grand illuminated temple of liberty, and call upon him to join you in joyous anthems, were inhuman mockery and sacrilegious irony. do you mean, citizens, to mock me, by asking me to speak today? bq. what, to the american slave, is your fourth of july? i answer -- a day that reveals to him, more than all other days of the year, the gross injustice and cruelty to which he is a constant victim. to him, your celebration is a sham, your boasted liberty, an unholy license; your national greatness, swelling vanity; your sounds of rejoicing are empty and heartless; your denunciation of tyrants, brass fronted impudence; your shouts of liberty and equality, hollow mockery; your prayers and hymns, your sermons and thanksgivings, with all your religious parade and solemnity, are, to him, mere bombast, fraud, deception, impiety, and hypocrisy thin veil to cover up crimes that would disgrace a nation of savages. there is not a nation of the earth guilty of practices more shocking and bloody than are the ople of these united states at this very hour. at a time like this, scorching irony, not convincing argument, is needed. o! had i thebility, ancould reach the tion's ear, i wld, today, pour forth a stream, a ery stream of biting ridicule, blasting reproach, withering sarcasm, and stern rebuke. for it is not light that is needed, but fire; it is not the gentle shower, but thunder. we need the storm, the whirlwind, the earthquake. the feeling of the nation must be quickened; the conscience of the nation must be roused; the propriety of the nation must be sttled; the hypocrisy of the nation must be exposed; and the crimes against god and man must be proclaimed and denounced. [applause] amy: james earl jones, reading frederick douglass's famous 1852 independence day address in rochester, new york. it was part of a performance of howard zinn's "voices of a people's history of the united states." this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman, as we turn now to the battle over the dakota access pipeline. the standing rock sioux tribe won a major legal victory in federal court in june, which may have the power to force the shutdown of the $3.8 billion dakota access pipeline. u.s. district judge james boasberg ruled the trump administration failed to conduct an adequate environmental review of the pipeline, after president trump ordered the army corps to fast-track and green-light its approval. the judge requested additional briefings on whether the pipeline should be shut off until the completion of a full review of a potential oil spill's impacts on fishing and hunting rightsas well as environmental justice. the pipeline faced months of massive resistance from the standing rock sioux tribe, members of hundreds of other indigenous tribes from across the americas, as well as non-native allies. speaking at a rally, president trump said, a few weeks ago, he signed the memo green-lighting the dakota access pipeline with his eyes closed. president trump: i'm pleased to announce that the dakota access pipeline, which i just mentioned, is now officially open for business, a $3.8 billion investment in american and nobody thought any politician would have the guts to approve that final leg. and i just closed my eyes and said, "do it." you know, when i approved it. it's up. it's running. it's beautiful. it's great. everybody's happy. the sun is still shining. the water is clean. but, you know, when i approved it, i thought i'd take a lot of heat. and i took none, actually none. people respected that i approved it. but i take so much heat for nonsense that it probably overrode -- it probably overrode the other. [laughter] [applause] pres. trump: it's like a decoy. amy: well, i recently spoke with standing rock sioux chair dave archambault when he was here in new york. he was joined by nick tilsen, executive director of the thunder valley community development corporation and a citizen of the oglala lakota nation on pine ridge reservation in south dakota. i asked standing rock sioux chair dave archambault about the tribe's lawsuit challenging the dakota access pipeline. dave archambault ii: from the very beginning, we asked the corps of engineers, "what impact will this pipeline have on our people?" and the corps of engineers never could answer that. their response is, "we're doing an environmental assessment, and we're going to see what impact it will have on the environment." and there's no impact. that's their -- that's what they state. so when we say, "well, we need to do a further look and see what really happens when infrastructure projects have an impact on our people" and we've experienced many infrastructure projects in the past, such as a railroad system. the railroad system facilitated the near-extinction of buffalo herds. when we were at 70 million buffalo in 1800, by 1889 we're down to less than a hundred. and it was the railroad track system that did that. there's interstates. there's telecommunications. there's dams. all these infrastructure projects have a significant impact on us. so that's the question we asked. and to get the answer, it required a full, in-depth environmental impact statement. so, we were able to, with the past administration, say, "let's at least do the environmental impact statement." with this administration, the ea: "there's not going to be any impact to you or to your people," which we know is if or when this pipeline breaks, we will be the first impacted. amy: there were leaks even before it went operational? dave: yes, there were. amy: can you explain what that means? it wasn't operational, so how were there leaks? dave: yeah, they started putting pipeline, like, where the valves to test the valves, they put oil through the pipelines. and it leaked significant amounts, even though it was a test. so, we understood and we knew that there were going to be leaks. it wasn't even fully operational, and they were already experiencing leaks and getting fined for 200,000 gallons of oil being leaked. and so, and then they said, "we'll clean it up, and we fixed it. it's ok now." but, you know, that just goes to show that this pipeline is not clean. it's not pretty. it's not a beautiful thing. it's something that's going to come back and haunt not us, maybe not us today, but the future. amy: dave archambault, can you respond to what president trump said? he just closed his eyes and signed it. dave: yeah, when president trump comes out with statements like that, it just is revealing his true character. it tells america what kind of person he is, when we all know that his first agenda was to sign this presidential memorandum. he was actually calling it an executive order, and then they switched it to a presidential memorandum. but it's because he has his own interest in this pipeline. he was sponsored, with his campaign, by kelcy warren. he had shares for energy transfer partners. he had political interests. all the people who support him are saying this has to be done. so, for him to say, "i blindly did this," it's a complete lie, and it tells what kind of character this man really has. amy: nick tilsen, your response when you heard president trump say he did this with his eyes closed, signing off on the final permit to allow the dakota access pipeline to be built under the missouri river, and then that there was no response afterwards? nick tilsen: yeah, i mean, i think that the reality of him signing with his eyes closed, that's probably the truth. it's probably what he did do. i mean, he's been a -- he's been a prop of the energy companies, who are having their heyday. and that's just the reality. i mean, we've seen, you know, one of the biggest outcries in protest in decades, and historical amounts of protest, in dakota access. and for him to -- for him to say that there was that it was met with no response is a total lie. that's one of his -- another alternative facts that he has, when the reality is, you know, tens of thousands of people sacrificed. we sacrificed our freedoms to protect this water. we sacrificed everything that we had. and it was women and children and families, and indigenous people with our allies from all over the country and all over the world. people around the world understand what happened at standing rock. and i think this is a constant sort of pr thing that says, "oh, nobody cares." but the reality is, people do care and that, now, you know, there's an established movement in this country. there's an established indigenous rights movement. it's starting to converge with these other movements. and he's not going to be able to say -- you know, he's going to be able to say those things all he wants, but there's a growing movement across this country, and people are out crying in many different ways. and so, i think, you know, the president, trump, saying these kinds of things is not true, and there's millions of people who know it's not true. but we have to continue to have our voices be the loudest ones in the room. amy: i wanted to ask about an explosive new investigation that -- by the intercept that reveals how international private security firm tigerswan targeted dakota access water protectors with military-style counterterrorism measures. tigerswan began as a u.s. military and state department contractor, hired by energy transfer partners, the company behind the $3.8 billion dakota access pipeline. the investigation based on leaked internal documents, which show how tigerswan collaborated closely with law enforcement agencies to surveille and target the nonviolent indigenous-led movement. in the documents, tigerswan also repeatedly calls the water protectors "insurgents" and the movement "an ideologically driven insurgency," even uses words like "jihadi." chairman dave archambault? dave: you know, it just goes to show who law enforcement is going to listen to. and law enforcement listens to the political leaders. and the political leaders are bought by corporations. so, in north dakota, we have a senator who has interests in the oil fields. we have a -- amy: who is that? dave: senator hoeven. he has an interest in the wells, that he owns. we have senator cramer and senator, or, congressman cramer and senator heitkamp. they receive some of the largest amounts of contributions from the fossil fuel industry. we have a governor at that time, governor dalrymple, who had some inter-mixings with china oil. and so, this whole political leadership in north dakota will say, "we have to have this pipeline go in." and because they're saying this, they're only going to listen to the corporation and the company. and they're going to give direction to the law enforcement. and it's frustrating to me, because we had countless meetings with law enforcement. and we let them know that there's infiltrators. this is not all the demonstrators who are creating this. we don't know who all the people are. all along, they're listening to the company's security, private security firms. they're working hand in hand with the company's private security firms. they're having daily meetings, daily briefings, with the company's security firms and ignoring completely tribal leadership. and all we were doing is trying to make sure that safety was the number one priority, where these guys, if the reports from from tigerswan -- on tigerswan are true, they weren'tthey weren't looking out for safety. they were looking to incite and to harm. and that's disturbing. amy: when we were there labor day weekend, when i first met you out there at the camps, you know, we could see the planes. and whenever i would point them out and ask, people would say, "oh, they're just surveilling us." it became business as usual. and, nick, i was wondering if you could talk about this and the significance of when you have these private paramilitary firms -- tigerswan founded by a delta force member, former delta force memberwhere you have these companies, as chairman dave was just describing, working with local law enforcement and the effect it has. i mean, then i'd like to go into your own personal history and your remarkable family history. but what this means? nick: i mean, i don't think anybody is surprised, so anyany water protectors that were out there. these reports that are coming out basically prove they prove that this is the -- this is the modern form of cointelpro. that's what it is. amy: the counterintelligence program of the fbi nick: absolutely. amy: that targeted black panthers and people of color for years under hoover. nick: this is a modern, contracted version of it, who's designed in using basically all of the lessons that they have been building off of fighting terrorism, but using it on their own people. and this is -- this is real. like, in the camp and all the organizing and all the stuff that we did, we knew that this was happening. we couldn't prove that it was happening, but we knew that, to an element, it was happening. we would show up at these protests. we'd have security officers and police who knew us by first name, who knew where we came from, who knew where in the camp we were staying. there was all kinds of stuff that happened during that time. and i think the reality is, like the american public needs to realize that, you know, when we were organizing the camp, we were not allowed to fly our own planes over. we were not allowed to have our own observations. and we thought about doing that. we thought about getting resources to be able to do that. there was a no-fly zone. so there was a no-fly zone in place over the camp. meanwhile, counterintelligence companies are allowed to come and surveil -- survey us. this is the -- this is a misuse of the democracy. and this is a fundamental issue of our time. i'm glad that these reports are coming out now, and not 20 years from now, because them coming out now lets the broader movements that are now converging together understand that this is happening. and this is something that the public has have a public outcry over. to use to use counterintelligence tactics against peaceful water protectors who are expressing our constitutional rights tofor freedom of speech, this isthis is an outrage. and i think that, moving forward, we have to be we have to be diligent. like the movement has to be diligent in recognizing that this is a reality. and those that support us have to recognize what we're fighting against. you know, we show up with our prayers. we show up with our bodies. we show up with our children and our families to these protests. and these guys are showing up with all the technology that's possible and all the weaponry that's possible. and this is athis is a fight over the future of this country. amy: they have automatic weapons and actually mraps, right? these are military technology. you know, it seems like recycling today is sending the weapons back from afghanistan and iraq and giving them to the police departments and sheriff departments of our country. nick: absolutely. and i think this also represents a misuse of power. i mean, the former governor, you know, created a militarized state on purpose. he created he created the militarized state. and the narrative is still the same. we showed up there. we showed up there in peaceful ways, in protest. and we were -- we were compounded with violence. there was dogs that were attacked on our people. this happened, in the 21st century, in this country. and these are some of the realities, you know, that we're faced with. amy: nick tilsen of the thunder valley community development corporation and a citizen of the oglala lakota nation on pine ridge reservation in south dakota. we'll be back with him and standing rock sioux chair dave archambault in a minute. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman, as we return to my conversation about the $3.8 billion dakota access pipeline with standing rock sioux chair dave archambault and nick tilsen of the pine ridge reservation in south dakota. he's a citizen of the oglala lakota nation on the reservation. i asked nick tilsen about his family's history. amy: talk about your family, your family's history. you're from pine ridge. nick: yeah. so my mother, joann tall janis, is from pine ridge. my father, mark tilsen, is from the minneapolis twin cities area. my grandfather, ken tilsen, was a civil rights attorney and attorney for the american indian movement. and my parents met around the time of wounded knee. and so i got to really grow up around like activist type of family. amy: and for those who don't know what wounded knee was? nick: wounded knee -- wounded knee was the siege or occupation of wounded knee in 1973, that was organizing from different indigenous people from around the country, about amy: in south dakota. nick: in south dakota on the pine ridge indian reservation, about three miles from where i live. and it was -- it was the generation before, it was their standing rock, right? it was the time in which people spoke out about all these grave injustices against all indigenous people. and it sort of sparkedsparked a movement throughout, you know, the future of indian country about what it means. and so, i always compare -- i was growing up in a family, hearing all these stories about wounded knee and about the american indian movement, and always asked, "i wonder what our wounded knee is going to be. i wonder whati wonder what our generation's wounded knee is going to be." and then standing rock happened. and i think the most important point here is, if you looked at after wounded knee, the trajectory of indian country began to change. different policies were changed to our indian country. and that's one of the -- that's one of the stories, i guess, that we have here, one of the opportunities that we have as indian country here, is that where we go from here for the indigenous rights struggle in this country is huge. there's a consciousness that it's raised. there's people that are fired up. and have thewe have the possibility and the potential to shape what the next, you know, 40, 50 years looks like for indigenous people. amy: your great-grandmother was meridel le sueur? nick: yep. amy: can you tell us who she was? but she also, you know, fought for the women's right to vote. she was an organizer in the labor movement, big sacrificer fosome of the rights that we have today and sort of -- not sort of. she's a legend, i guess, beyond our family and did a lot ofdid a lot of things that helped shape this country. and to me, you know, as --- to me and our generation, i think we still derive a lot of courage from the courage that she had. amy: so, you were arrested, september. nick: yeah. amy: and what were you doing? nick: on september 14, there was was a group of us -- there as a group of us that locked down to machinery. this was during the period of of time where they moved -- they moved the buffer zone. so, there was a buffer zone; there was no construction within 20 miles. but what the companies had done is they moved to a seven-day workweek outside of that 20 miles. so this whole time, they knew that they were going to get approval. they just moved out. so we said, "well, instead of sit back and waiting for them, let's take the fight to them. let's use nonviolent direct action, and let's use our abilities to take the fight to them." and so we went to thewe went to a construction site, came upon the machinery. and immediately when they've seen us, they tried to run us over with the excavators. they swung the buckets at us, barely missed us. we ended up climbing, using our bodies, climbing up on the machinery and shutting the construction down. amy: what were you charged with? nick: i was charged with four different charges. three misdemeanors, disorderly conduct, obstruction of a government function disorderly conduct, obstruction of a government function. the felony charge was reckless endangerment. and it was a felony charge. this is one of the first felonies that they -- one of the first felony charges that they did in standing rock was on the day that i was arrested and with the folks that i was taking the action with. and it was a pretty important thing, because they were trying to use it as a tactic. they were going to they were trying to use it as a tactic to overcharge people, essentially, to use the political and the legal system to discourage people. and i think i was probably about the 40th person arrested. so their strategy to discourage people didn't work. i think there was over 700 people, you know, after i was arrested, that were arrested. but the disorderly conduct charge is a serious charge. i'm still facing that charge. i'm set to go to trial on august 17. the difference between a misdemeanor disorderly -- or reckless endangerment charge and a felony is that they're basically saying i had extreme indifference for human life, for locking myself to a piece of machinery to protect water. amy: how many people are still facing trials, facing charges? nick: hundreds. i mean, i think, yeah, i was on the water protector legal collective email chain recently, and i think there's still, you know, between 400 and 600 people facing charges. amy: chairman dave archambault, you, too, were arrested. dave: yes. amy: when were you arrested? and has your case gone to trial? dave: yes, i was arrested on august 12. and last week, i just got done with my trial, and i was acquitted. amy: was it a jury trial? dave: yes. amy: you alone? dave: no, there was another, councilman dana yellow fat, that was in the court case with me. and then there was another lady, alayna eagle shield, who was also going to court with us. and it was interesting. so, when we were arrested, the bond was set at $250. and i know nick -- amy: $250. dave: yes. i know when nick was arrested, that had -- it started going up, the cost. just the bond was starting to increase. and the charges started to change. and the language, all the propaganda began, with the state and the state outlets, news outlets started saying that "these are terrorist acts. they're inciting riots." and so, for my charge, it was disorderly conduct. i was probably the second day of the entire camp, is when i got arrested. so, there was maybe 12 people at that time, total, that got arrested. and the reason i got arrested was because i was trying to protect another lady, who was standing in the path of vehicles exiting. and i was met by a wall of law enforcement, and i tried to go around. and then amy: do they know you? dave: no, they didn't know me. and in the hearing, the officer who confronted me, who i ran into, said i had my hands on him and i was yelling, which was not true. so when i testified in our hearing, i said, "i don't yell. what he was describing a _lili that women, lakota women, do. and he said i was doing that. and when you look at the video and you look at the pictures, my mouth is closed. and he said i had my hands on him, but my hands were back, and i was going through the line. and so, the prosecutor brought up another witness, another law enforcement that was close by, and asked him, "was the chairman yelling? and he said, "no." "did the chairman have his hands...? he said, "no." so, two officers saying two different things. and i was just -- amy: these are morton county sheriff's deputies? dave: one, yeah, i think they were both from morton county. but, you know, the jury being able to hear actually what happened and making the decision was a relief, because this was something that was the first thing. right after that, the dakota access pipeline filed a temporary restraining order on me. and that was granted. so, the tribe filed a temporary restraining order on the company, and the judge said, "we're not granting this." but as soon as they file one on me, the judge grants it. and then, after that, they filed a civil suit in federal court against me to try to pin all the costs and expenses that the protest is creating on me. and i would say maybe about three weeks ago that one was dismissed, because you can't you can't pin a certain. i think it has to be $75,000 or more on one individual, and they couldn't put that on me. amy: so you were charged with a misdemeanor. and what happened? were you jailed? dave: yes, i went to jail. and we bonded out the same day. amy: you were, were you strip-searched? dave: yeah. amy: were you put in an orange jumpsuit? dave: yes. amy: and you were jailed? dave: yes. amy: nick, the same? nick: absolutely, yeah. yeah, strip-searched, jailed. i had a broken foot at the time. yeah, we weren't treated very well in there. i mean, we didn't get our bedding in. actually, some of the otherthere was other native brothers that were in jail for other things, and they were the ones advocating for us to get our bedding and different stuff, because they had been in there for a while. amy: at this point, hundreds of members of the standing rock sioux tribe and other tribes and non-native allies still face trial. nick: yes. amy: your response to this exposa© about tigerswan and them -- expose about tigerswan and them calling the resistance, meaning you, chairman dave archambault, also you, nick tilsen, and so many others, the the "insurgency?" what do you make of that, even referring to your resistance as a kind of "jihadi" insurgency, nick? nick: insurgents. how is it possible? how is it possible that any indigenous people are insurgents on their own land? our land has been overrun by corporations, by the militarization of our lands and our communities and our people. it's impossible for us, as indigenous people on our only land, to be insurgents. if there's insurgents, it's the company. if there's insurgents, it's the private military company. it's impossible for us to be insurgents on our own land. we did at standing rock what our ancestors did. we did at standing rock, which was stand in prayer, we did things founded in our culture, our spirituality. this is women, children, families, people that came there to sacrifice. we were not insurgents. we were people fighting for what was right, simply fighting for what we believed in and protecting water on behalf of 17 million americans. and to call us insurgents is a disgrace to the future generations. it's also a reality that this is the political times that we're in. when you rise up and you take political action and you do it in a peaceful way founded in your -- founded in your beliefs, you're faced with guns, you're faced with water cannons, you're faced with bullets, you're faced with all kinds of violence. that violence was put on us. the water protectors never enacted violence on any of theon -- on any of the police. that was notthat was not something that happened. we trained our communities and our people in nonviolent direct action, and we did it collectively. and so, to call us insurgents is completely wrong. it's an alternative fact. amy: so, i want to turn now to what's happening now at standing rock. the standing rock sioux tribe is now leading an initiative to build a solar farm in cannon ball, less than three miles from the dakota access pipeline. among the companies that will be helping build the solar farm is native renewables. this is native renewables co-founder wahleah johns, speaking thursday at the henry wallace award ceremony in new york city for the standing rock tribe. wahleah johns: the father, the sun, it provides -- it can provide power. it can empower us. and that's been a lot of what we've been talking about with native renewables, is that empowering our communities to actually learn how it works, how solar works, but also building our capacity to manage and own projects to generate power. so far, a lot of tribes are being -- like, our land base is being targeted by fossil fuel companies. and how do we shift away from that? and i'm from a big coal-mining community, and i chose this work because i wanted to see something different, and i want to protect our water, so our future generations have a future that is healthy and clean. amy: chairman dave archambault, talk about what it is you're doing now just a few miles from the dakota access pipeline, where the oil is flowing. the fossil fuel industry has succeeded in building that. but what are you now doing at standing rock? dave: we have over 12 communities on standing rock. what would be a dream or goal is to have all 12 communities powered off of renewables. but we have to start somewhere. and the best place to start is in cannon ball, because it's so close to where this pipeline is, where this fossil fuel bane exists. and so, at the community level, then at the national level, if tribes, native tribal nations can say we are 100 percent powered and 100 percent that we consume renewable energy, that builds awareness for other communities and then maybe the nation. amy: so how are you doing this, with wind and solar? dave: with the solar panels, we're starting off with a 300-kilowatt project. on the commercial wind side, we have a resource, and that's the wind, that can generate a lot of electricity in the great plains. and so, how do we develop it to where -- to where the tribe is actually the owner of the project and not the investors or the developers? so we need to take a more active role, and so we're exploring different ways to be the actual owners once this is developed. amy: of a wind farm? dave: of a wind farm. and it will be a commercial wind farm, so that we're talking like 100 megawatts, producing on average maybe 40 to 50 megawatts annually. so we'll be able to take those -- that power and sell it commercially and then use the resources to offset or to evolve our homes, so that they can provide heat in a good way, rather than burning fossil fuels. amy: and, nick tilsen, what does this mean to you in pine ridge to have this kind of project? nick: i think it means a lot to us in pine ridge and all of indian country. i mean, tribal communities have been the place where negative resource extraction -- it's been the place where pipelines go through. it's been the place where they store nuclear waste. it's thethe native nations in this country have been the dumping grounds for the energy industry for a long time. it just so happens to be that native communities are alsohave the potential to be the saudi arabia of renewable energy. these communities are also -- you've got eight of the 12 poorest communities in all of america, are in north dakota and south dakota, and they're all indian communities. and so -- amy: explain that. nick: eight of theeight of the 12 poorest communities in all of america are in north dakota and south dakota, and they're all tribal communities. so this pipeline and projects -- this pipeline, keystonekeystone xl pipeline, they're not only just going through the heart of indian country, they're going through ground zero for inequity in america. they're going through ground zero for poverty in america. and so, what we're basically saying is we're not just against these pipelines. we're against these pipelines. we're against -- we believe that these pipelines are pipelines to the past. and we believe that we should be building sustainable infrastructure for the future, and so that we have the potential and we have the opportunity in tribal nations, rock and like we're doing on pine ridge with thunder valleyis building the communities of tomorrow and beginning the process of just transition and what that looks like. amy: you're founding executive director of the thunder valley community development corporation, which is what? nick: it's a nonprofit, grassroots, community-based organization doing sustainable economic development in one of the poorest communities in america. and we're building a community from scratch based on renewable energy, sustainable housing and designing communities based on indigenous values. and so, what this means for us is, the time in standing rock, this was not just against the pipeline. we're fighting for our very future. and, you know, we have to be able to meet the needs of our present generation without compromising the ability of future generations to meet their own needs. and this is a very indigenous way of thinking, indigenous values way of thinking. it's also a very practical way of thinking, because the past energy and economic model that this country has been operating on has continued to create a separation between the rich and the poor, exploit lands, and we're fighting for something very different. and so i think that this project at standing rock is onethis movement, having come to standing rock, let's make sure something happens for the people of standing rock. let's make sure that this inspiration happening at standing rock benefits the people of standing rock. and i think that's what wahleah, native renewables, give give power -- they're all collectively working to help make that happen. and so, this means inspiration for us, because if it can happen at thunder valley and pine ridge, and if this can happen in cannon ball and standing rock, this can have a ripple effect to what happens all throughout indian country, and hopefully begin to reform the way that energy policy and and energy projects happen. amy: nick tilsen, head of the thunder valley community development corporation, a member of the oglala lakota nation on pine ridge reservation in south dakota. and from north dakota, standing rock sioux chair dave archambault. when we come back, we speak with the grandson of the former vice president of the united states, henry wallace. scott wallace wrote a piece in "the new york times" recently echoing what his grandfather wrote more than 70 years ago, warning about fascism in america. his wallace global fund just honored the standing rock sioux tribe with the inaugural henry wallace award and a million-dollar investment in solar and wind renewable energy projects led by the tribe in north dakota. back in a minute. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. as we continue to look at how the standing rock sioux tribe is embracing renewable energy, we turn to scott wallace and ellen dorsey of the wallace global fund. the fund recently honored the standing rock sioux tribe with the inaugural henry wallace award and a million-dollar investment in renewable energy projects, solar and wind, led by the tribe. the award is named after scott wallace's grandfather, henry wallace, who served as vice president under franklin delano roosevelt from 1941 to 1945. scott wallace recently wrote an op-ed piece in "the new york times" recalling his grandfather's piece back over 70 years ago. in 1944, henry wallace published an iconic "op-ed" in "the new york times" headlined "the danger of american fascism." henry wallace wrote, quote, "american fascists are most easily recognized by their deliberate perversion of truth and fact," unquote. i began by asking scott wallace about his grandfather's comments in 1944. scott wallace: he described a breed of self-interested megalomaniac who -- the notion of corporatism is what he described as a breed of fascism, which is the marriage of corporate power and government. and they pretend to be interested in democracy and the common people, but they are really only interested in preserving their own wealth and privilege. and as you mentioned at the beginning, a defining characteristic of them that differentiates them from fascists that were then abroad in germany and italy was that they don't need violence. they don't kill people. they find that lying to the people is so much easier. so they use propaganda. they use the newspapers to spread lies and self-serving, what he called, snide suspicions without foundation in fact -- as you mentioned, you know, birtherism, hugest inaugural crowd ever, 5 million people voted illegally, obama wiretapped me. that is how they preserve their own power and ask for more. and they also -- he defined it as using their position to obtain more money through the merger of corporate and government power. and trump is that merger of corporate and government power. he uses it not only to pervert government policy toward personal ends, but he is now getting in trouble with the emoluments clause and receiving money from foreign governments, that the founding fathers said was an impeachable offense. amy: do you feel that we're moving toward fascism in this country? what do you think your grandfather would say? scott: i think he would say, in retrospect, that we're not talking about fascism in the way that is alarmist these days, that it's not hitler or mussolini. mussolini preferred the definition of corporatism, which is the merger of corporate and governmental power. using that definition of fascism, yes, that is what my grandfather predicted. and i think the only thing that would shock him right now is that his prediction has come true. amy: when he ran for president in 1948, one of the barriers he broke is he traveled with african americans through the south. can you talk about the significance of this? scott: well, there's a wonderful story that was videotaped of pete seeger and studs terkel, who were with him on this tour, describing what animates this award that we gave yesterday to standing rock: courage. i mean, he refused to speak in front of a segregated audience in the deep south. and pete seeger describes this scenario of the police coming to him and saying, "mr. wallace, you may not live through this week. there are threats against you." and my grandfather said, "that's not important. it's important that i continue this tour." and that standing up for what is right in the face of grave personal risk, that's what we saw in standing rock. that's what -- when we were thinking about how to honor my grandfather, how to incentivize that kind of courageous behavior and activism against overwhelming corporate and governmental power, that's why, oh, my god, standing rock is it. amy: and so, explain what you've done, because this is unusual in philanthropy today in the united states. scott: well, we created this award, the henry a. wallace award, to honor that type of courageous activism against the merger of corporate and state power. we put a cash award with it. and this year, we decided, because they are also in search of a solution, a clean energy solution, which is very viable, wind and solar projects -- we decided to not only give them a grant, an unrestricted prize for their activism and their resistance, but to invest with our assets, the 95 percent of our money that we don't give away every year but we invest to grow. we decided to put some of that into clean solar and wind projects, specifically run by and for the standing rock tribe, to make an example that this is not only good for the planet, but it's a way to make a decent return, too, which we find just shockingly ironic today as president trump has withdrawn from the hugest global agreement to limit greenhouse gas emissions, again, based on snide suspicions without foundation in fact, that, oh, my god, climate change is a chinese hoax and fabrication. so, it all came together very nicely. and we want to also make the point that, no, renewable energy is the future, and you can make a nice return on it. amy: and so, this grant is both an outright grant of what? like $250,000. but then, explain the rest of it. scott: well, we made a commitment of up to a million-dollar investment in the solar and wind projects that standing rock is developing with experienced project developers in the wind and solar space and that will empower the community, the tribe, and can provide a model for the rest of the country and the rest of the world. amy: ellen dorsey, this is part of what you've been doing for some years right now, this whole issue of divest and invest, people who -- if you can explain what you're talking about when you talk about taking assets of a foundation, and where you invest them? ellen dorsey: well, first, i would say that there has been a growing movement of activists calling for institutional investors to divest their investments from fossil fuel companies. and we both supported that movement with our grant dollars, but we had already begun our own journey on overhauling our investments, with the idea that it wasn't ok to be invested in companies that were driving problems that we were asking our grantees to solve, particularly when we were invested in those companies with the 95 percent of our assets and with the 5 percent making grants. so we had already begun our own journey to overhaul our investments. and when the fossil fuel divestment movement began to explode, we started to organize philanthropy as a sector of that movement. and we went out to peer institutions and said, "climate change isn't just any issue. it affects the mission of all foundations. and now is the time to not only stand up and divest your assets from fossil fuels, but put 5 percent of your assets into climate solutions --renewables, energy efficiency, clean tech, etc., because that's what's needed to accelerate the clean energy transition." i would say that we weren't initially met with a great deal of enthusiasm by our peer institutions, because there's always been a firewall between the investments and the grants. but, actually, in a pretty rapid period of time, we've now come close to 160 foundations around the world that have signed the pledge to get out of fossil fuels and put 5 percent in the solutions. amy: now, what does that mean? what about foundations that say, "we'd like to do this, but then we won't have money to give for grants?" ellen: well, first of all, i think that's based on false assumptions about the performance of their investments. it's very clear. we got out of coal before coal tanked. we got out of oil before oil tanked. and our investment portfolio has been doing fantastically well. we beat our benchmarks consistently. so, it's a false assumption that you would lose money. this is an industry of the past. we are in the middle of a transition. clearly, how fast we make this energy transition will determine the impact on the planet and on the lives of millions of people. but the transition is occurring. so, those that are investing in the future are going to capture the upside of a new market, a new economy. so it's both for financial reasons and ethical reasons that foundations and other endowments should be divesting and investing. and, in fact, foundations, along with faith groups, universities, we receive charitable tax status because we serve the public good. and if, arguably, our investments are contributing to the destruction of the public good, i believe we have mission-level responsibility to divest our assets. amy: and what are the energy assets you're investing in? ellen: we're invested ini mean, when you think about it, every industry needs to decarbonize, to reduce the use of fossil fuels. so, the kind of large umbrella of clean tech, you know, more sustainable businesses, it's almost endless in terms of every industry is implicated. but we're invested in renewables. we're invested in energy efficiency. we're invested in clean tech. and, increasingly, we're invested in energy access. there's a billion people in the world that do not have access to energy today, and they can leapfrog the old fossil fuel industry and the grid infrastructure with clean, renewable and affordable energy. so investing in energy access also contributes to addressing poverty. so we're investing in energy access, as well. amy: given that universities are being pressured to do this, and now philanthropies, are there studies that prove that you can actually make money if you invest in renewables rather than fossil fuels, coal, oil? ellen: absolutely. and, in fact, what really began as a student movement quickly migrated to the mainstream and the financial mainstream. now, from the head of the bank of england to the heads of insurance companies, they're saying it is actually your fiduciary duty to look at climate risk to your portfolio, because the financial risks are so significant. amy: and finally, what do you think, scott wallace, your grandfather, the late vice president henry wallace, would say to president trump today? scott: i think he would say, "please resign. just go away." he's bad for the country. amy: scott wallace and ellen dorsey of the wallace global fund. and in full disclosure, democracy now! is also supported by the wallace global fund. that does it for today's show. my catch of the day is freshwater fish from the famous finger lakes. announcer: "julie taboulie's is made possible by... ♪ do your thing, man: do your thing ♪ ♪ syracuse, do your thing ♪ do your thing, do your thing ♪ ♪ syracuse, do your thing

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