comments he made over the past few years. >> glibs, thoughtless and down right insulting comments. >> he they were irresponsible, incredibly disrespectful, and did not reflect reality. and they were, indeed, insulting. >> i behaved sadly and i have to live with that my own inexcusable flawed. >> dr. gruber's statements gave republicans public relations gift. >> are you stupid? >> i don't think so, no. >> does mit employ stupid people? >> not to my knowledge. >> okay. so you are a smart man who said some as ranking member said really stupid things. >> you would not deny today that in these statements that you made that obamacare is a tax, would you. >> he obamacare is a large piece of legislation with many parts. >> and is one of those parts a tax, mr. gruber? >> there are some taxes in obamacare, yes. >> well the president, as you know, argued that obamacare was not a tax. you were trying to say, i think, is that the bill is convoluted, you agree it's a very confusing statute. >> call it the stupidity of the american voter but basically that was really critical to getting this thing to pass. >> clever basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the american voter. >> when did you realize that these comments are indefensible and inappropriate? >> i honestly didn't remember making them. >> you didn't remember calling your fellow citizens stupid and you didn't remember saying that you are the only person who cares about uninsured that the fellow citizens don't give a damn about the uninsured? you don't remember saying that. >> i don't. because they were glib and thoughtless comments that i made. >> the so-called glibness that has been referenced today, have direct consequences for real american people. so get over your damn -- >> i apoll devise for these videos earlier. >> it you a little while to apologize. what i'm struggling with is whether your apology is whether you you said it or because you meant it. >> in a strange way i appreciate what you said in the videos because it seems to me in the first time someone came clean and told the truth. you told people you were actually. >> i behaved sadly i have to live with that. >> they gave the opponent of the aca a pr gift. man, you did a great job. you wrapped it up, put a bow on it. congressman ron -- one of today's gruber barbecuers, he joins us. good evening, sir. >> good evening. >> did you get all the answers you wanted from mr. gruber today? >> it was a stunning display of disingenuousness. he really didn't answer questions and he said things that were directly contradictory to reams and reams of vape. he didn't provide a compelling explanation. we asked him hey, you have received millions of dollars from these state governments for your consulting because the law you create sod complicated know ro northbound understands it well i have to talk to my lawyer. he wouldn't say that he would produce the information for the american people it was a troubling performance. >> did you ask him whether or not he worked closely with leader pelosi or former h.h.s. secretary sebelius or the president? because one of the big issues is whether or not he really was sort of key to the statute or whether he was on the sidelines. >> so he did acknowledge that he briefed the president in the oval office. he said that only happened one time. but he said, look, i'm not the architect. all i did was provide numbers. the problem is, is that is belied by the press treatment he had received throughout the years where is he referred as the architect. the "new york times" did an article that i confronted him with they called him mr. mandate. as soon as the principles were agreed toe at the white house. the white house dispatched grube tore capitol hill to write the law. he tried to walk away from the history acting like all did he was provide numbers. >> we can all get over being called stupid. he aapologized for that here is what i think is disturbing about what he did. one is he talks about lack of transparency as the reason for the statute passing. bedrock for democracy and that's deceitful. use lack of transparency to get something done. he said the mandate is a tax. democrats have said it wasn't a tax. someone is not telling the truth there. he also said at one point in the video that if you are in a state that didn't set up an exchange. then you are not eligible for the subsidy, which is a profoundly important issue in the case. king vs. burwell which is before the supreme court and could probably really gut obamacare should the obama administration lose that did you get answers on any of those three? >> no. in fact, he said today that it wasn't a tax. so he agreed with the democrats. even though previously he had said it thing is not only do we have him on vape saying it's a tax. he wrote a textbook about public choice economics where he talked about mandates are essentially construed by consumers as taxes. you are right, what this king v. burwell issue he basically said oh well what i meant is that the federal government may choose to not create an exchange. that's why i said that; which is just hogwash because the federal government had to do an exchange and they were working on it when he made those comments. so that was totally ineffective to explain away those comments. >> besides the fact that it makes him look bad today, was anything achieved? what was the point of today? >> well, look, this is a 25 page bill that was passed against the will of the american people and, now that we know from gruber, was deliberately designed to object secure the true nature of the law. and so. >> so? >> so i think he needed to come and explain himself to the american people. did he not do that and this is not going to be the end for him. we are going to get the information about how much he profited off this. i don't want a situation. >> suppose you bloody his nose and suppose you find out he ripped off the american people. thinks they are really stupid. there is a tax. if you live in a state that didn't set up exchange he thinks you shouldn't get a subsidy. >> to be able to use the legislative process to create huge bills nobody understands it. guess what, if you are a part of that you are marketing throughout the rest of the country you can make millions of dollars. i think the american people don't want to seat government operate that way. he gamed the system, used his expertise in order to enrich himself. >> in concert with the obama administration? >> he was acting in concert. i think the frankness with which he has admitted deceiving the american people has made him more con speckous than some other people who have not been able to admit that. >> i think he admitted to the insult and the apology, i'm not sure he admitted to the over things. >> trey gowdy asked him are you sorry that you said it or are you sorry that you meant it. he wouldn't say that hes is sorry that he meant it. >> nice to see you. >> not only did he call americans stupid while working on obamacare he got paid piles and piles of money. taxpayers. calling you stupid. jim jordan grilling gruber on that. >> i was informed that i should report all federal moneys received through grants or contracts for this fiscal year and previous two fiscal years. i did that i have received no federal contract. >> i don't care what you were informed, mr. gruber. i care about what i'm asking you. how much money did the taxpayers, state or federal, pay you to have you then lie to them? that's what i want to know. >> over this fiscal year? >> no, no, no, no. total. look, this has been a five year ordeal with this it law. we want to know how much you got from the taxpayer and then made fun of him after you got the money and lied to him. >> i don't recall the total. >> we want that information. >> and karl rove joins us. nice to see you, karl. >> nice to see you. he got his nose bloodied, mr. gruber today. was anything achieved beyond that? >> well, it is part of what was achieved today is that the american people heard and saw him and it contributes to the dialogue in the debate. in a sense, this is a side show. he talked about the problem of transparency. the administration itself has a problem of transparency. this law was sold to the american people on a series of promises and pledges and explanations that are turning out not to be true and more importantly, the administration knew at the time they were not true. for example, if you like your plan, you can keep your plan, the administration knew that the core of the affordable care act is is that most of the insurance coverage in america is deemed insufficient and you are going to lose your plan and have it replaced with a plan that washington tells you that they think is adequate for you. you like your doc, you can keep your doc, part of the affordable care act is we are going to get your doc, have you too many choices of doctors, we are going to limit your choices of doctors. gruber is a symptom of the problem. is he not the problem. >> he confirmed today what a lot of people thought. >> this is going to be -- this is the question. what are the republicans going to do when they take over the congress in january? are they going to begin to systematically attack elements of the affordable care act which are problematic for the american people? for example, this law sets as a definition of full-time work 30 hours a week. this has caused a lot of companies, particularly in the who's pay talings and food industries to reduce people who worked 34 or 35 or 36 hours with tips, causing them to reduce them to 29 hours. and tips. and thereby causing them to go out and find a second job. that's going to have to be fixed. there are going to be a number of things that republicans, if they are smart, will find as weaknesses to attack the affordable care act to change the healthcare laws in america to being more patient centered and market driven and undermine the fundamental premises of the affordable care act which is that the government ought to be in charge of this decision and ought to tell you what kind of govern coverage you get and when you get it it do you want the really expensive program or really really really expensive program. >> a the love taxpayers may wonder whether they are going to get any money back from him. he won't say how much he got paid. >> he got paid millions. >> card played, that's over. he is not going to give any money back. >> simply because he insulted the american people who paid him doesn't mean we get to get the money back. >> do you know what i would do if i were representing the anti-obamacare people in this? i would file a motion with the supreme court to reopen the record, expand the record, include his testimony as part of the legislative history or ask to remand it to a lower court to reopen the record to include his testimony. and that whole issue about whether or not states, that didn't set up their own exchanges can get the subsidies. that's what i would do. >> this is really interesting to me. what we have got in this supreme court decision is a choice between taking the black letter of the law as written or taking somebody's explanation of what they really intended, which is at odds with what they wrote. so, you know. >> that's not even -- oddly enough, if they go beyond just the plain language of the statute, the supreme court to intent, that's when gruber becomes so important because gruber explains the intent. gruber is not in the record. >> look, here is the other thing. we don't have a record. remember, this bill does not go through the normal processes. this was not delivered out of a subcommittee and voted upon and discussed and went to a committee and went to the body of the floor and months and months of work done on it this thing was passed in a relatively quick fashion. the draft that the congress that we saw in december is not the draft that they voted upon in march. not the draft that was signed into law by the president. >> and i should probably tell the viewers that my motion to supplement the record probably would be so unusual that, you know, -- doesn't happen high risk. anyway, karl, stay with us. we'll have more for you later. ask about that cia report in a few minutes. right now it was not just republicans hammering gliewber here is the oversight committee ranking democrat elijah cummings. >> worse of all, dr. gruber's statements gave republicans a public relations gift. in their relentless political campaign to tear down the aca and eliminate healthcare for millions of americans. many republicans now allege some kind of democratic conspiracy citing the praise for dr. gruber's work from president obama and other democrats. but that, too, is completely wrong. >> and joining us our political panel, national journal shane gold milwaukeeer and the national review tom rogan. tom, first to you. do you think that the media mothers the media thinks this is a serious issue? >> if you look to the news reporting today, it was heavily pushed towards the cia report. so i think a loft media has not been as interested as covering covering this as perhaps fox news has. i think there is a problem there because obviously based on the forensic level of financial gain that mr. gruber has acquired, with his dealings with obamacare, there is a connection point to the formulation of the law yes there is disconnect. >> this is a big day in terms of republicans getting headline. in termination of long term impact it's not clear what there was. his goal coming in apologize profusely for four hours. did he that what he didn't do is open up a new rationale in terms of the law. in terms of whether it was a tax or not. in terms of whether states had to opt in or opt out. his goal really was just keep apologizing. that's what he did. >> i agree with you the apology, fell on the sword and said i shouldn't have done that it was stupid or mean or whatever. remained asker other issues and whether it's a tax and whole thing on the subsidy or the states is important. and also the lack of transparency. erin, democrats worried about this? >> i don't think they have much to be worried about here. the long-term effects of it would really have come from the legal aspect of things whether he had said some more are about whether it was intended that people who signed up through the federal exchange weren't actually meant to have these subsidies. if he had said something more on that, that would have been big. instead he sat back and said a lot of "i don't recall.""i don't recall if that happened." he really played it safe, took his medicine and i think he came out of it with basically as shane said a one-day story. >> i think that's so important, that whole issue about what he says about the states and whether or not if you are in a state that doesn't -- that didn't set up the exchanges, whether or not you can get subsidies or not. that's the linchpin of this case that's lingering in the u.s. supreme court. decided by the end of june. if the obama administration loses that that's really going to have incredible hit. if they win that's a huge victory for them. >> the language of the law is very suspect. even people who support the law, admit that that particular section sounds a whole like it was intended the way he described it. >> he confirms it. he confirms the anti-obamacare version of it. >> now the version of events is that's not the way it was intended. that's what he said today. he basically said those comments were misconstrued. he was speaking hypothetically to some degree. really it's whether or not you agree with jonathan gruber's version of events and whether or not you can get around the language of the law that exists in obamacare. >> shane, come january, there will be changes in obamacare. even democrats want to get rid of the medical device tax and republicans. so that will be a change. >> yeah, think think there will be some changes. the question is what degree of changes. republican congress is going to try to create as many changes as they can and the president is going to try to mitigate those changes. going forward, the gruber issue just speaks to that broader disconnect over the role of government, big societal issues and also the nature of what american healthcare is going to be. this is not going away. >> shane, is the obama administration, their view of this whole gruber thing is what? >> i mean, you saw last night he was on the colbert report. >> the president was, not mr. gruber. >> yeah, the president was on it and he was making fun of the notion that this was going to be repealed during his administration. he mentioned what is going to be the republican agenda talking about trying to push through a majority vote to at least put it on his desk. after that, they will start picking off the least popular elements of the law. medical device tax. something that probably had 60 votes in the senate. put that in front of him and basically daring him to start vetoing really unpopular pieces of the law. >> thank you. straight ahead. explosive cia report released. senate democrats accusing the cia of torture and so much more. tonight, thousands of marines alert. reaction with fox news catherine herridge and ed henry next. plus a star nfl quarterback seriously hurt in a car crash. the latest on that developing news come up. ing... a pm pain reliever that dares to work all the way until... the am. new aleve pm the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour strength of aleve. you don't need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we're exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg... isn't as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy. energy lives here. we're for an opens you internet for all.sing. we're for creating more innovation and competition. we're for net neutrality protection. now, here's some news you may find even more surprising. we're comcast. the only isp legally bound by full net neutrality rules. military bearings around the world high alert after a democrat senate panel released a blistering report on cia interrogation practices. dianne feinstein u.s. senator from california calling some of the cia tactics torture. george tenet saying the program saved thousands of american lives. chief intelligence correspondent catherine herridge joins us. catherine, first of all this alert. what about that? >> what's missing in the conversation is this is in fact a self-inflicted terror alert. if the report had not been released. the alert that it could provoke violence would not be necessary. >> released by the democrats on the senate committee as well as support of the obama administration sort of mixed in the administration. >> it's pretty clear the white house supported it. >> okay. what's in the report? >> the senate report breaks down to four findings. i apologize for making it so simplistic. this is the way you have to do it. no valuable intelligence from the cia program. also, it alleges the cia mislead congress and the executive branch and the american people about the quality of the information they were getting. that it was grossly mismanaged like a bad startup operation. and that finally, the program was more brutal than had been represented to congress and to the public. >> all right. was there a product from the interrogation or not? i know one side said no and one side said yes. is there a general consensus out there? >> the one point of consensus that staffers on the committee did not dispute today is that the program produced information and when you start to pull that thread, what you see is that it was, in fact, valuable information. at the very least, it took these al qaeda operatives off the battlefield. that meant they were no longer plotting that meant inherently that it saved lives. and if there is one thread that came out of that program, it was the identification of the courier who lived with usama bin laden at the hideout in pakistan. that's where he was killed by the navy seals in 2011. >> some people say it was political it whereas released today. last april voted to be declassified and worked on it to be paid. >> over the redaction. >> they wanted to release it in april but working. >> they wanted to release it much earlier than. this this is going under the wire at the finish line it didn't go this week it was never going to be public because the democrats would lose control of that committee in the senate. >> catherine, thank you. >> you are welcome. >> not just republicans and democrats disagreeing about the release of the cia report. some contradictory reports coming from inside the administration. fox white house correspondent ed henry joins us live. ed. >> greta, good to see you. you put it right. sort of like the administration, it was torn about whether or not to release this report contradictory messages as you say on one hand. the president putting out a written statement today saying, look, you have to give george w. bush trit credit. there were a lot of tough choices to make post 9/11. the president saying these -- many of these intelligence officials were patriots. trying to protect the country but in the next breath, the president's statement said that the techniques, the tactics that they employed were basically unamerican, that they didn't live up to our values. and, interesting as well, if you look at the contradiction from the vice president today, vice president biden hagel this as a victory for transparency, it was the right thing to do. we had to get it out there when we know in recent days, secretary of state john kerry had reached out to senator dianne feinstein trying to maybe massage the release of this report because, as we heard from defense secretary chuck hagel today. he has told the centcom commanders to put the military on a higher state of alert all around the world because of the potential for a violence against u.s. interests all around the globe. so, look, this was a tough issue for the administration to grapple with. but there is no doubt that they have been trying to point the finger at the bush administration, because these are policies that this president when he came n 2009, he banned torture, banned these practices which he calls torture it. and they want to turn the page on all of that. basically, greta. >> ed, thank you. ed henry reporting from the white house. thank you, ed. senators lindsey graham and john mccain taking to the senate floor to respond to the controversial cia report. you are going to hear from them both next. she's still the one for you. and cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment is right. cialis is also the only daily ed tablet approved to treat symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as it may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or any allergic reactions like rash, hives, swelling of the lips, tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a free 30-tablet trial. with contour detect technology that flexes in 8 directions for the perfect shave at any angle. go to philips.com/new for savings on shavers and trimmers. innovation and you. philips norelco. then you'll know how uncomfortable it can be. but did you know that the lack of saliva can also lead to tooth decay and bad breath? well, there is biotene, specially formulated with moisturizers and lubricants... biotene can provide soothing relief and it helps keep your mouth healthy too. biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth. john mccain prisoner of war himself tortured senate intelligence committee report. senator mccain said the useof tt which distinguishes us from our enemies. senator mccain is not the only one who took to the senate floor. >> co-erive technique did not produce the vital, otherwise unavailable intelligence the cia has claimed. >> i know from personal experience that the abuse of prisoners will produce more bad than good intelligence. >> the people involved believe they were trying to defend the country and what they were doing was necessary. >> it's about the constitution. the bill of rights, our rule of law. >> and sometimes good people make mistakes. >> history will judgment us just society governed by law and the willingness to face an ugly truth and say never again. >> when we fight to defend our security, we fight also for an idea, not for a tribe or a twisted interpretation of an ancient religion or for a king but for an idea that all men are endowed by their creator with an inalienable rights. how much safer the world would be if all nations believed the same? how much more dangerous it can become when we forget it ourselves even momentarily. >> there are those who will seize upon the report and say see what the americans did? and they will try to use it to justify evil actions or incite more violence. >> and senator lindsey graham joins us. good evening, sir. >> thank you. >> this is one of those issues that people are so deeply divided and so passionate about but people on both sides are also incredible patriots. >> the techniques employed after 9/11 were were response to fear of another attack. people out there defending this nation coming another way. rule up some of these guys, very anxious to get out of them whatever you can to prevented the next attack. i understand why people did this. >> what is the difference between enhanced continue tear gation and torture. >> i think from a military lawyer's point of view, none there are some enhanced interrogation techniques that don't violate the. beyond the army field the idea is pretty absurd. because the army field manual is to make sure that corporal smith doesn't abuse a prisoner in the field. we need to allow our intelligence community and military intelligence officials some latitude interrogation beyond the army field manual but waterboarding in the military point of view has been illegal. >> did this work, enhanced interrogation and torture did it work. >> we got some information that was valuable. best information came from long term detention before we put it together having these guys behind bars for years and they began to talk to us. one thing it did do, also, it hurt us. in iraq. it hurt us in afghanistan and throughout the region. and you just don't have to take my word for it call up general petraeus. general allen, general on the other hand or or continue narrow. >> we are the leading sponsor of the geneva convention which talks about how to treat people under your charge when you capture them. the point i would like to make is i think we can win this war within our values and i think we must. we have a lot going for us that our enemy doesn't. we are actually good people and they are bastards. >> here is the convention against torture that ronald reagan signed in 1984 in part says there are no exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether state of war or threat of war. the interrible political instability or any other public emergency may be invoked as a justification of torture. now, it doesn't say enhanced interrogation of t. says of torture that's why i asked you what's the difference? >> i assume that signed on we adhered to it in order to have leadership to the world. >> let's an a lawyer for a moment. the convention wasn't a criminal statute. >> i didn't think it was. >> thought detainee treatment act result of interrogation techniques being exposed. there is now clear guidance american law under the detainee treatment act that would outlaw waterboarding and other techniques called enhanced interrogation that i think value violate what we are. and at the end of the day i'm trying to distinguish ourselves. they crucify people. they rape women, they sell them into slavery. they will kill people's children before their eyes. at the end of the day that was back fired on them. i promise you we can win this war within our values. >> senator, nice to see you sir. >> thank you. >> a group of former cia report released in the "wall street journal." the group which includes former cia george tenet and michael goes. partisan attack on the agency which has done the most to protect america after the 9/11 attacks. former cia director central intelligence connection. good evening, sir. >> good evening, how are you. >> what's the impact of the cia of this report being released? >> i think the impact could be very damaging to the morale of the agency. at the same time, i have great concerns about the safety of not only our personnel but our diplomatic and military personnel globally. we saw an attack on united arab elm rites on innocent american school teacher killed by extremist woman in this case it may put at risk a lot our capabilities abroad. overall it cannot enhance the morale of our agency but we are very resilient and very patriotic. amazingly resilient agency. i remember when we lost seven of our officers to al qaeda double agent. 8 were injured. we came back from that very resilient and very strong. >> you know, we are all patriots and cia operates in secrecy for a good reason. >> yes. i have to admit it's troubling that the cia got caught spying on the u.s. estimate and the people preparing this report. brennan says it didn't happen in march. he admitted it did happen in july. we don't have any idea what our cia is doing. >> we operate under the law. we operate under tremendous oversight from the committees. >> that was against the law. >> we have an inspector general. i'm not certain of the details that happened when i was not at the agency since i left the agency in 2009. it's my view that we are law abiding and obedient agency and he we operated during the detention and interrogation under the rules that were outlined by the justice department agreed to by the administration. we were the first line of defense. we do things that others do not do and do things that others do not go. we did this under direction and. we briefed the gang of 8 in 30 times over the next several years. >> they it knew it? >> i knew it and they knew it too. >> on the downside for the cia you can't brag about your victories. you can't talk about -- you can't talk about successes in protecting us because you are telling too much. >> during my 40 plus years we had a lot of diseases. >> various administration, democratic and republican including the administration that left office in 2009. we have done brilliant stuff and we keep the secrets and take them to our grave. >> is some senators being -- are some senators were in the know and now they are acting scandalized by the report? comments to that effect. i'm surprised that selected people were briefed in both committees and then the full committee as i recall was briefed in 2006. i believe when general hayden came director of the agency. is he a great patriot and great leader. >> you worry about morale now? >> i do. i worry about how we operated around the world. >> the cia, you must have their back. the cia is a very brilliant organization in every aspect of intelligence. but they must know they have the support of the administration and they must have the support of the congress and the select committees are important. and the report to me is disappointing. the trade craft would not meet my standard. >> sir, thank you very much for joining us. nice to talk to you. >> thank you. >> and the senate democrat report claims the cia kept president bush in the dark about some of its interrogation tactics is, that true. karl rove is back. he will answer that question back. a girl doused in flammable liquid and set on fire. the hunt is on for her killer. thef latest coming up. amage of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis. before you and your rheumatologist decide on a biologic, ask if xeljanz is right for you. xeljanz (tofacitinib) is a small pill, not an injection or infusion, for adults with moderate to severe ra for whom methotrexate did not work well. xeljanz can relieve ra symptoms, and help stop further joint damage. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers have happened in patients taking xeljanz. don't start xeljanz if you have any infection, unless ok with your doctor. tears in the stomach or intestines, low blood cell counts and higher liver tests and cholesterol levels have happened. your doctor should perform blood tests before you start and while taking xeljanz and routinely check certain liver tests. tell your doctor if you have been to a region where fungal infections are common, and if you have had tb, hepatitis b or c, or are prone to infections. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take. one pill, twice daily, xeljanz can reduce ra pain and help stop further joint damage, even without methotrexate. ask about xeljanz. today senate democrats report that the cia kept information about interrogation tactics from bush cheney and bush 43. karl rove was in the white house during those years. he joins us again. karl, was anything kept from the president? there is a footnote in here that says that there was. >> you know, i wasn't privy though those kind of things but i find it hard to believe that george tenet, porter goss and mike hayden three great patriots who served as director of central intelligence under president bush would have kept information from him. think about this. there is either two answers. these three men, who are very close to him who met with him sometimes virtually every day lied to him or mislead him. these three men in charge of the agency didn't know what was going on most vital of programs that they were intimately involved with and in my opinion knew everything about. >> 17 the information indicate, doesn't identify what the information is which is always interesting. the information we have indicates that the president was not briefed by the cia regarding specific interrogation techniques until april of 2006 and at that time the dcia goes briefed him on the seven enhanced. >> look, there are four sets of justice department legal briefs, legal rulings on what is permissible and not permissible. and the president was aware of those. look, realize this. they probably never -- the writers of this report probably never talked to the people involved. they didn't talk to the legal counsel who briefed president bush at the justice department or inside the white house were involved in the preparations of the riewlingsz. we heard they didn't talk to the people involved with the program jose rodriguez. what's the difference between enhanced interrogation and torture. do you know? >> yes, absolutely. look. the administration knows too this is one of things about this whole process that is so disreputable. think about this. in 2009, president obama asked the justice department to investigate the use of these techniques. and they assigned a prosecutor to it and they spent three years looking at it and they looked for violations of u.s. criminal statutes and at the end of three years. they closed the case. so, they looked at it from top to bottom and said are these in violation of u.s. statutes. let's take for example waterboarding. in this instance, if you read the memos and i have the memos, incidentally up on my web site at rove.com. if you look at them. they describe what can and cannot be done. there has to be a doctor present. the water has to be a certain temperature. it has to be -- they have to be elevated so that they literally can not drown. the water cannot get into their lungs. the doctor has to advise the subject that they will not die. you have to tell them you are not going to die. you are just going did feel like you are drowning and, therefore, you know, it's going to help break your spirit and make you compliant. there are a whole series of standards. can you throw people up against the wall. only if the wall is constructed in a certain way gives suffering physical harm from them being slammed up against a wall are nonexistent. i understand who made the wall s. an interesting twist to all of this that they were slammed against. >> my understanding they got people from hollywood who used to do this for stunt doubles. >> this is all. >> let's remember this, this thing was looked at carefully from top to bottom. i thought mr. allen made a key point it was briefed 30 times to congress. as you heard earlier this evening from steve hayes people who today said i never heard about it are saying why are you only waterboarding three people? it kept america safe at a time when our country was at great risk. and, i mean, just take one example. had you senator graham who said what happened was we kept them long term and they began to talk to us. they only began to talk to us when we broke their spirit and made them cooperative. it wasn't the length of time they were in gitmo. techniques where they began to cooperate. zaid captured in 2001. two together led us to ksm. sue bade da is one of one of usama bin laden's top associates. ramzi bin al shibh is the guy in charge of post 9/11 planning and ksm is the loortd of leader of the 9/11 attack. all of that came about as a result of these techniques. >> karl, nice to talk to you. >> star nfl quarterback hurt in a car crash. latest on this developing news next. your hepatitis c.forget it's slow moving, you tell yourself. i have time. after all there may be no symptoms for years. no wonder you try to push it to the back of your mind and forget it. but here's something you shouldn't forget. hepatitis c is a serious disease. if left untreated, it could lead to liver damage and potentially even liver cancer. if you are one of the millions of people with hepatitis c, you haven't been forgotten. there's never been a better time to rethink your hep c. because people like you may benefit from scientific advances. advances that could help you move on from hep c. now is the time to rethink hep c and talk to your doctor. visit hepchope.com to find out about treatment options. and register for a personalized guide to help you prepare for a conversation with your doctor. how can in china,sumption impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 70% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. my nai'm a lineman for pg&e out of the concord service center. i have lived here pretty much my whole life. i have been married for twelve years. i have 3 kids. i love living here and i love working in my hometown. at pg&e we are always working to upgrade reliability to meet the demands of the customers. i'm there to do the safest job possible - not only for them, but everybody, myself included that lives in the community. i'm very proud to do the work that i do and say that i am a lineman for pg&e because it's my hometown. it's a rewarding feeling. we're for an opens you internet for all.sing. we're for creating more innovation and competition. we're for net neutrality protection. now, here's some news you may find even more surprising. we're comcast. the only isp legally bound by full net neutrality rules. breaking news, the star nfl quarterback seriously hurt in a car crash. carolina panthers quarterback cam newton was involved in a two car crash. the accident happened near the panther stadium. he suffered fractions to his lower back and will spend the night in the hospital. it's not clear he will be able to play next sunday. >> this is a fox news alert. a gruesome and vicious murder in mississippi. a 19-year-old girl set on fire. now the hunt is on for her killer. for the latest tom disease joins us live. tom? >> greta, we're talking about 19-year-old jessica chambers of court land, mississippi. this all started with a phone call to the sheriff's department that there was a woman and a car on fire here in the roadway. according to family members. they say a doctor told them that a flammable substance was forced down her throat and her nose before she was set on fire. jessica burnt over 98% of her body. the car burnt beyond recognition. the murder happening on a very desolate road here in pin nola county making that all the much harder to solve because there are no homes out that way and a supposedly no one saw it. jessica we are told may have whispered something to sphawnders before she died that may be one of the clues. they are looking into that. investigators are also looking into her cell phone records for possible clues as well. her father worked here for the panola county sheriff's department repairing cars. is he a highly regarded man. and the sheriff's department, sheriff dennis darby saying that this one is personal. they have got to get it solved. greta, back to you in studio. >> tom, thank you, i hope they get those killers right away. thank you, tom. you saw right here "on the record" san bernardino district attorney mike ramos standing up for law enforcement and taking john steward to task. the d.a. accusing stuart of getting the facts wrong while talking about police incidents. >> this is an isolated incident. like the police shooting of time rice in cleveland or donte parkner san bernardino county oror monday bennett in orleans. what time does colbert start? what time does his show start. >> after seeing the d.a. ramos was going to appear on the record jon stewart said he would apologize for what he got wrong. here is part of stuart's apology. >> one of the examples that we used out of many, came from san bernardino county, california. now the d.a. there had some issues with this jon stewart fellow's report. >> district attorney ramos was right. we were wrong. in our list of unarmed black men shot by police, we should not have included parker, who according to the county medical examiner died of a pcp overdose. so i'm sorry about that. i shouldn't have done that i hate making unforced errors like this. i hate it i get so mad at myself. stupid, stupid, stupid. can you see stuart's entire apology on gretawire.com. coming up, i have a message for some law school students and their dean. i will tell you what it isvere off-the-record of course,ng t that's next. this is humira helping to relieve my pain and protect my joints from further damage. this is humira giving me new perspective. doctors have been prescribing humira for ten years. humira works for many adults. it targets and helps to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flu-like symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work you don't need to think about the energy that makes our lives possible. because we do. we're exxonmobil and powering the world responsibly is our job. because boiling an egg... isn't as simple as just boiling an egg. life takes energy. energy lives here. then boom... what happened? 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and that's my off-the-record comment tonight. thank you for being with us. see you again tomorrow might right here at 7:00 p.m. eastern. follow me on twitter at the handle at greta. go to gretawire. we have a new poll up. the reporting live factor is on. tonight: >> our own intelligence community has assessed that this will cause violence and death. >> big controversy over a senate report accusing the cia of torture and lying to congress. but is it all politics? we'll have analysis. in terms of of looting and auto thing i have no issue with what they did. >> really the looting? >> john stossel takes to the streets to find out if the demonstrators actually know what they're protesting again. >> black traffic. making their point. >> of course they. >> is that bad? also tonight jesse watters going shopping with the folks. >> what about killing