>> it's a hoax, money making industry. >> about immigration? >> i'm going to fight for comprehensive immigration reform with a pass to citizenship. john: we'll rate the candidates on our liberty meter. that's our show tonight. . john: tonight, we score the candidates. this show's biggest issue is liberty, the dignity of the individual. are we the people left free to experiment? invest? live how we want? help other the way we want to? to compare the candidates we've created this liberty meter. tonight's guest will weigh in on which candidates are best and worst for liberty. but that can be hard to figure out. when i ask you on social media, how would you rank the candidates in our liberty meter? i got unhelpful answers because everyone said basically, both candidates deserve a zero. on facebook, dave said put both in the red. kevin walker tweeted -- and that's a good point, how do you rate someone who changes position so often? not just trump, both candidates have flip-flopped a lot. hillary praises gay marriage, when she ran for the senate in a liberal state, she was asked by a liberal viewer. >> recognize gay marriage? >> no. >> no? okay. john: eight years later said the same thing. >> i have not supported same-sex marriage. i supported civil partnerships. john: just three years later, she was for gay marriage. >> i support marriage for lesbian and gay couples. john: of course during the three years public opinion did shift, she shifted along with it. i think she supported gay marriage all along, but was afraid it would hurt her chances of winning. who knows? hillary's changed position on lots of things. gun control. the keystone pipeline. so-called clean coal. fracking, she was for it before she was against it. her husband's crime bill, subsidies for ethanol. she was wisely against those until she got to iowa then she was for them. i could go on. you get the point. what's remarkable is both trump and clinton constantly changed positions and hasn't seemed to hurt them. trump opposes obamacare. >> this is unrepublican thing for me to say. >> universal health care. >> i am going to take care of everybody. >> who pays are in it? >> the government will pay for it. john: the government will pay for it. mr. trump, what's your position on abortion? >> i'm very pro-choice. >> you would not ban it? >> no. john: now he's pro-life. he said he would punish women who get abortions, though he walked that one back. i suppose flopping is expected of politicians, but what's different about these two is they don't just flop, they make stuff up. hillary is the expert at that. asked why she wouldn't release all the e-mails on the server. they are too personal, private e-mails between bill and me. >> the server contains personal communications from my husband and me. john: later, bill revealed he doesn't e-mail. >> only time i got on the internet i did two e-mails. john: she just went onto the next lie, her dumbest one is what she said happen when she flew to bosnia. >> i remember landing under sniper fire. there was supposed to be some kind of a greeting ceremony at airport, but instead we ran with our heads down to get into the vehicles. >>ou recall hearing gunfire? >> when we were flying into bosnia, there was no greeting ceremony, and we basically were told to run to our cars. that is what happened. john: only after the cbs news video showed what really happened, that there was a greeting ceremony. here she's doing a photo-op with an 8-year-old girl. did hillary stop talking about sniper fire. so when she says something, i don't know if it's true, same for donald when it comes to issues since they change positions so much. hard to tell what they really believe. on some issues, we think we know. and that's why grover norquist of americans for tax reform says there are reasons to choose donald over hillary, like what? >> taxes are one of the ones -- john: and what they specialize in. >> we asked not to raise taxes. hillary clinton in the campaign said she wants to raise a trillion dollars in taxes. that she's been clear about. she wants to take away many of your personal deductions, 350 billion dollars. many business deductions and credits raising business taxes, 275 billion, and 4 to 500 billion in taxing rich people. whatever she defines as rich. over a trillion dollars. then six different kinds of capital gains, doesn't tell us how much that will raise taxes but make life more difficult, exit tax for people in rodeesia for people who try and leave. you have to pay a tax. john: i haven't heard that. >> yes, exit tax. and a tax on stock trades so everybody will buy and sell stock in london and singapore and not new york. these are the six big ones she's talked about. she hasn't been as clever as her husband or obama. they said all during the campaign only to tax rich people. she has already broken down, when they said about what about taxing poor people who buy soda pop. in philadelphia, great idea, she was for that. when her opponent was suggesting he would have a tax on wages, bernie sanders, she said she'd sign that, too. so social security taxes, wage taxes, for all people. that's available. so all of these -- john: she's being honest, maybe it's refreshing compared to the guys who say they won't and try to. >> i think she is, she's being entirely honest. there isn't a tax she's run up against she wasn't for. her husband said only rich people except taxing people who buy gasoline, and the first tax obama put in 16 days after he became president was cigarette smokers, average $40,000 a year plus the 7 taxes in obamacare that hit the middle class and the gasoline or energy tax he wants to put on everybody. when politicians say they want to tax the rich, they haven't finished the sentence. tax the rich first, then you. john: hillary was asked if she supported a 25% sales tax for guns. >> i'm all for that. i don't know what else we're going to do to get some handle on this violence. john: 25%. >> gun costs $400 to start with, it would be $500. john: i hadn't seen this clip before, you told us about it. >> it was testimony in 1993. she's first lady. being asked by then senator bradley from new jersey and specifically asked is it your opinion, and she says this is my opinion, not the administration's opinion, the white house put out a statement. this was her. this is where she is. we put together a website, high tax hillary.com. so all of the taxes that video, all of the statements she's made on where she wants to raise taxes, high tax hillary.com, keep track as the campaign goes on. john: why are you higher on trump? we don't know what he would do, and he's promised to make the military bigger. won't cut entitlements, increased spending is a form of a tax. >> true cost of government is spending whether you borrow or take it in taxes. we had 17 republicans running in the last election, and they all had very good tax reforming moving in the right direction. trump was more aggressive in a couple of ways. 15% business tax, it's 15% on business income. we've been at the corporate level charging 35% federal, plus average of 4% state. so 39. john: and companies hide their money overseas. >> if they earn it overseas and want to bring it back, we tax it. we punish them for bringing it back. john: so they keep it overseas. >> and build factories. we damage ourselves when we do that. john: we supply siders believe that economy will grow faster with lower taxes, but why would we believe? first why believe trump, and with lower tax rates, if they ever happen, would the money even roll in? you can say under bush, they cut, revenue increased 4%, but clinton increased taxes and revenue went up 43%. >> two things happened. clinton did us a favor, he elected a republican house and senate. the advantage we have if trump is the president is that he will sit across the table from paul ryan who's a jack kemp supply sider, and mitch mcconnell who's a ronald reagan tax cutter, and neither of them are going to say let's raise taxes from what you put forward. they may move it around a bit. if he puts tax plan on the table, something very close to it will be able to pass the house, the senate and be signed into law. john: and you believe trump, though once he said i want a 14% onetime tax on rich people? >> well, several things. he has said a number of things on tariffs and taxes in the past. since he's focused running for president, he's been consistent on the direction he wants to go on taxes, and again, nothing gets done without the republican house and the republican senate agreeing and most republicans, about 90+% signed the taxpayer protection pledge. they wouldn't raise taxes for obama with the entire establishment pressuring them to do so. john: the taxpayer protection pledge is something your group created and now most almost all the republicans promised not to raise taxes. >> they've signed the form. they keep it, and we haven't had a net tax pass since 90. john: people after them don't follow it. >> we speak cheerfully and suggest they not raise taxes. the good news is they don't want to raise taxes. when you raise the pledge, it strengthens the back bone, i'd love to do it, can't help you, sorry. john: let's go to the liberty meter, rank clinton first 1-5 on taxes? >> is one the lowest? . john: yes. >> negative 1. john: pro-growth on the machine? and trump how would you? >> i would say 4 only because when he talks about tariffs sometimes, tariffs are taxes in american history. we had a revolutionary war on the subject, it was part of the conversation shooting each other in the civil war, he's moving in the right direction nd senate. final product will be a 5. john: boy, i hope you're right. i'm skeptical. thank you, grover norquist. next, who will bankrupt america faster? donald or hillary? i suspect it's hillary. >> i will do everything to make it easier to help you pay for child care, take care of aging parents, afford prescription drugs. ♪ in new york state, we believe tomorrow starts today. all across the state, the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, the lowest taxes in decades, and new infrastructure for a new generation attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in rochester, with world-class botox. and in buffalo, where medicine meets the future. let us help grow your company's tomorrow - today - at business.ny.gov of bad breath germs% for a 100% fresh mouth. with breath so fresh, it's no wonder listerine® users feel ready enough to be in a magician's act. kill 99% of bad breath germs. feel 100% in life. bring out the bold™ . john: want some free stuff? yore in luck. this year there's a presidential candidate who promises to give you lots of it. >> i will do everything i can to make it easier to pay for child care, to accepted your kids to college, take care of aging parents, afford prescription drugs. john: and on and on. of course clinton can't give us those things without take money from us. government has no money of its own. sadly when it comes to government spending, i'm not sure donald trump will be better. anthony randazzo thinks he knows who's better, randazzo director of economic research foundation. >> even though she's going to spend more money, she's not going to bankrupt the country in the process because she's going to tax us all into poverty so the federal government won't go bankrupt. at the same time, donald trump's plan is to spend more and tax less, the amount of debt will bankrupt and strangle the economy. john: i haven't heard him say he's going to spend more, he's going to make the military bigger and cut entitlements. what else? >> defense spending and his trade policy is tacitly a spending plan because -- >> the tariffs on china? >> going to raise unemployment, cause an increase in welfare programs and unemployment insurance, all of that winds up being a net negative and pouring of federal dollars. tacit spending increases. john: trump doesn't say he wants to spend more on college education, free preschool? >> hillary clinton is using the government like her own personal hedge fund. she can invest in all the social things she wants. john: here's a clinton spending promise you may not have heard. >> china is investing $180 billion to expand broadband. we cannot be left behind. by 2020 i want 100% of american households to have access to quality, affordable, high-speed internet. john: and they applaud people like this. i'm going to give you all fast internet, $180 billion. somebody else's money. but it works. she's the front-runner. >> she wants to invest in energy, in children's education, all of which can sound great if it is not your money. john: internet and broadband is faster in other countries. >> sure, if you start from nowhere and put the absolute best technology in the ground, you're in a better place. john: we started first. >> it means a lot of the cable laid isn't as fast. that doesn't mean that the only solution to having everybody well connected is the federal government. john: and i just noticed some reporting on countries that did really invest in this. britain's billion pound investment is off to a slow start. in the digital slow lane as a result of red tape. south yorkshire pulled the plug on broadband plan costing 150 million pounds. government squanders this money. >> and one of the fastest places you can get internet is kansas city where internet is provided by google. john: donald trump does pay lip service to cutting spending. >> there is so much money to be saved. we're reducing taxes, but at the same time, if i win, if i become president, we will be able to cut so much money. john: why are you down on him compared to hillary? >> i don't believe him. and he's demonstrated he doesn't know what he's talking about. he says we're going to cut so much money. where are you going to cut it from? john: waste and abuse. no one thought of that before. >> sure. and the departments he's focused on such as cutting waste, fraud and abuse from medicare, less than 1% of what expenses are. john: even if it was a little bit more. >> it's not that waste, fraud and abuse alone is going to cover the $10 trillion in tax cuts he wants to propose. $10 trillion in tax cuts is great. if you cut it that much, it has to be with defense and entitlement spending. since he's already taken those off the table, when he says i'm going to cut so much, he is completely full of crap. john: all of the big money is in defense and growing entitlements. >> any serious candidate that is serious about cutting spending has to start there. john: and that is what's going to bankrupt america, medicare, social security, trump has promised he won't touch those programs, and when ted cruz responsibly called for partly privatizing social security, and raising retirement age for younger workers, trump told voters, i'll protect you from this. >> i'm going to save your social security, cruz wants to dut in half. john: maybe he's running for office, he's a smart guys, knows what he'got to tell voters. he'll be responsible once he's elected. >> the trouble is he's not saying anything to get elected. the attitude which he approaches it, self-centered and narcissistic to himself. so incredibly problematic and asinine that i just absolutely refuse to believe he is saying i'm going to protect everything and walk in and say sure, we'll cut social security by 50%. not going to happen. john: on our liberty meter, rate donald trump. >> a 1. i find it incredibly problematic, the idea any of candidate that wants to add that much debt to the federal government. no matter how great the tax pledge might be. john: and hillary clinton? >> she at the very least is planning to pay for some of the things she wants to spend on. purely on the issue of spending if we get into the tax issue, purely on the issue of spending, she wants to pay for some of the things she's going to spend on. john: number 2? >> maybe a 2. john: thank you, anthony randazzo. next, war. war is the biggest threat to liberty. leads governments to impose all kinds of limits on individual freedom. on the other hand, if we're not safe, we're not really free. who is smarter about keeping us safe. hillary or donald. >> i'm the only one on the stage that said do not go into iraq, do not attack iraq. nobody else said it, i said it nice and slow. . john: now and then, donald trump says things that make me perk up and say, wow, that's a good idea. for example, he said instead of america spending blood and money to defend europe and friendly countries in the middle east, they have to do the fighting. >> we shouldn't be sending our troops. there's a time we have to say let's get the heck o, we have to build our country, rebuild the united states. >> i'm the only one on the stage said that do not go into iraq. do not attack iraq. nobody else on the stage said that. i said it loud and strong. john: not so loud and strong. he didn't? >> he didn't. there is no evident he spoke out against the war beforehand, some people did at considerable risk to their career. john: we tried too, we couldn't find anything. this is an odd election based on what he says, you have the democrat more of a hawk than the republican. hillary is often eager to war and always eager to intervene in other countries. here's what he said when she voted to support the iraq war. >> any vote that might lead to war should be hard, but i cast it with conviction. john: with conviction. she didn't just voteor it, she spoke for it. >> right no, evidence of her being opposed to war whatsoever. i have not found a single instance where hillary clinton thought the u.s. should not be engaged militarily somewhere else around the world. john: strange for a democrat getting support for her party? >> true, it is strange. she is more hawkish than most of the people in her party. john: she supported the intervention in the balkans, secretary of state, big advocate. 40,000 more troops to afghanistan. >> that's right, that's right. john: also wanted to intervene in libya. >> she was one of the leaders, i think, can be said in advocating the war in libya at a time when president obama was on the fence. i think in some respects hillary clinton's support for the war tips her scales in favor of intervention, it was a disaster. john: in a bunch of cases she's more eager to go to war than president obama. she wanted to figure out who the moderates are in syria, and send them weapons. >> the president said no. now that's how it works. people who work for the president make recommendations and then the president makes the decision. so i think it's only fair to look at where we are in syria today, and yes, i do still support a no-fly zone. john: a no-fly zone? that sounds smart. >> a no-fly zone and who are you shooting down? are you actually helping the people? >> russian planes. >> means potentially war with russia. seems rather serious thing. is the future of syria who rules syria worth going to war with russia over? not so sure about that, and most americans are skeptical about that. john: how about arming the moderates? >> right, the moderates we did arm disappeared or were killed and captured. john: or maybe went to the other side. >> who knows? that's what happens when you give weapons to people you don't know about. there are a lot of people in syria you can trust to shoot in the direction you want them john: let's go to our liberty meter. how do you rank hillary? >> again, i think the united states doesn't need to go to war very often to be safe and secure, the reason she wants to i think it's a 1. john: and donald trump? >> like to grade donald trump off the scale. if your little meter went underneath. john: why? he says he wants to pull troops out of the rest of the world. >> too inconsistent, john, not clear what principles guide him. he will say sensible things and other times he says things i can't make sense of. john: we want to spend in the military, we're not free if we're not safe. >> true, we have the strongest military in the world without any question and we could to know have a strong military without spending as much as we do today. john: thank you, chris preble of the cato institute. next scoring the candidates on immigration. people say donald trump hates immigrants but he says -- >> i love everybody. i love everybody. i am so sorry, ms. maroney. this personal essay is way harder than i thought, it's just not in my nature to brag on myself. not even a backdoor brag? what's a backdoor brag? sneaking something wonderful about yourself into everyday conversation, like when i tell people, i can't watch musicals 'cause i have perfect pitch. (vo) some carriers promise unlimited streaming, but then automatically shrink your videos so they're not hd quality. it's not pretty. really? switch to verizon now, buy two samsung phones, and get a free samsung 50 inch smart tv, plus up to $650 back. only on america's best network. poallergies?reather. stuffy nose? can't sleep? take that. a breathe right nasal strip instantly opens your nose up to 38% more than allergy medicine alone. shut your mouth and say goodnight, mouthbreathers. breathe right. this clean was like - pow. everything well? it felt like i had just gone to the dentist. my teeth are glowing. they are so white. 6x cleaning*, 6x whiteningá in the certain spots that i get very sensitive... ...i really notice a difference. and at two weeks superior sensitivity relief to sensodyne i actually really like the two steps! step 1 cleans and relieves sensitivity, step 2 whitens. it's the whole package. no one's done this. crest - healthy, beautiful smiles for life. . >> you know what? we're going to build the wall, and we're going to stop it. john: it, of course, is illegal immigration. trump's promised to build that wall, jump start his amazing campaign. he also says he's going to round up and deport 10 million illegals who are already here. he's going to end birth right citizenship. this enraging some people, and it's much of what provoked angry protests like this one where they burn a donald trump flag, because of what he said about immigrants. many people say he's a racist. >> it's the racism that donald trump promotes and we are going to defend our people here that are fighting against racism by any means necessary. john: i'm sick of the unhinged anti-trump protesters and disgusted by the violent ones. libertarians don't like what trump says about immigrants. we think most immigrants should be welcomed. on this issue, many of us react as hillary clinton once did after hearing trump talk about keeping the criminals out. >> it just makes my heart sink. we are better than that. i'm going to fight for comprehensive immigration reform with a pass to citizenship! [cheers and applause] >> a path to citizenship makes sense to me. that makes sense to jacob hornberger, jacob, you would go further than i would. you want open borders. >> the free movement of people that cross borders exercise what thomas jefferson called the fundamentals of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. john: most people in the world are horribly poor and they want to come here to freeload. how can you have open borders. >> ironic we have the most powerful government in the world, and among the most frightened people in the world. there is absolutely no reason to fear foreigners. lot of americans go overseas on vacations and business trips, and they seem to interact with foreigners, walk out on the streets of mexico city or whatever other cities and they're not afraid of them. most foreigners love america. they want to come here and work. most people throughout history are willing to leave their country to better their lives through work, through labor, through mutually beneficial exchanges. immigrants are a great gift to a society, and we treat them like a burden. actually they contribute to the economic prosperity of the country. one of the many reasons why america had a tremendous upsurge in the standard of living of people throughout the 19th century. when america embraced a policy of open borders. john: but then there weren't terrorists wanting to murder us. and fine, i'll go to mexico and feel safe, i wouldn't feel safe in syria. >> of course, not, you've got the u.s. military, the cia over there dropping bombs on people. here's where you have t government interventionses coalescing with each other. if you stop the government from intervening in syria, iraq, the rest of the middle east, trying to kill isis, bring all the troops home. the anti-american terrorism disappears. i wouldn't travel to syria because people hate what the u.s. government has been doing in the middle east. john: i understand why people agree with trump when he says the muslims from the middle east, we've got to stop letting them in. >> when they come from syria, i want them to be registered. we don't know who they are. john: jacob, we don't know who they a. all the young men. >> if we stop dropping the bombs and forcing people out of syria, there will be less people trying to escape the bombs and save their lives. but the other thing, john, is that the odds of somebody coming over here and doing harm to america in a terrorist attack are so small, even if you open the borders. most people want to come to a country to save their lives from the bombs or improve their lives. john: 10% can do a lot of damage? >> look at it domestically. we have open borders here in the united states. every day, thousands of people or countless people can cross from maryland into virginia and back. when the snipers were coming from maryland into virginia, we didn't close the borders, didn't regulate the borders, we assumed the risk of open borders between maryland and virginia. used law enforcement to finally close in on these guys and they caught him. did they kill people in the meantime? yes, but americans took the position of our freedom's more important than the risk of getting killed by those few terrorists. never should we sacrifice our principle of liberty for the sake of security. john: all right, the candidates, trump wants to build a wall across the southern border. triple the number of immigrations and customs officer, end birth right citizenship. hillary wants to increase citizenship and how do you score donald trump. >> score him a 1. he wants to build walls, wants to isolate the american people. he's an isolationist. let's face it. so yeah, i give him a 1. john: and hillary? >> hillary a 1, too. these democrats talk out of bo sestheimoh. citizenship, wants to increase the number of syrian refugees. >> she and her ilk have been waging this war on immigrants for decades. her boss president obama is the great deporter in chief. he's deported more people than any other president. he's doing what donald trump has promised to do. trump is honest, he's out there. clinton is playing both sides of the fence. let me make one more point here, immigration doesn't equal citizenship. there is absolutely no reason why you can't have a system people are coming into work, visit, tour, invest, and keep their citizenship. why not just free movements of people and people keep citizenship unless they want to apply for citizenship. john: that makes sense, thank you, jacob hornberger. what's the liberty meter score for clinton and trump on global warming? transparency? will we know what they're up to? what about guns? hillary says guns commit crimes. >> the facts are that most of the guns that end up committing crimes in new york come from out of state. . john: we continue scoring the candidates. now we'll score them on guns, global warming and transparency. which candidate is more likely to be open? honest with us? when hillary clinton was secretary of state, she said this -- >> nobody in any cabinet position has ever been as transparent or open. john: no one, ever! really? donald trump says he's been the most transparent candidate. >> i've probably given more interviews than anybody, i'm credited with that. john: is that being transparent? doing interviews? deroy murdock is watching the candidates closely so i don't have to, strong opinions about the differences. >> trump is like the eternal flame, he's always there. sent out 6,000 messages via twitter on this campaign, and you get a constant stream of thought from him. if there's any negative here, never shuts up. john: he hasn't released his taxes. >> that's one area he's not been transparent. apart from, that he's very open, he's happy to be on interviews, on television all the time. probably more than people want to see him. versus hillary clinton, i think she was with a five or six week period where she refused to give interviews, wouldn't talk to journalists. this goes back to time in the white house. she did hillary care task force. they met in secret. put the package together without outside input. kept the doors locked, cooked the thing up in secret. that's one of the things it failed. when it came out, people saw what a horror it was. john: she lies about stuff? >> small things to big things. she didn't have to say gee, we were running across the runway in the balkans and getting shot at. john: or she was never subpoenaed over the e-mail server. in our liberty meter, rank donald trump? >> give donald trump a 4. i would give a higher mark, we're waiting to see tax returns, much better to get them out rather than what's in there? >> hillary clinton? >> she's secretive. i give her a 1. john: on the other issues, the activist left is obsessed with global warming. keystone pipeline, good things in west virginia she said i'll put a lot of coal miners and companies out of business. it's necessary because climate change poses an extraordinary threat. but donald trump says -- . >> a lot of it is a hoax, it's a money making industry. a lot of it. i want clean air and clean water, but we don't have to destroy our businesses. and by the way, china isn't abiding by anything, they're buying all of our coal. we can't use coal anymore, they're buying our coal and using it. john: he's right. shipping stuff overseas and it's not going to make difference. >> rather than burn the cole here, we send it over to china and they set it on fire and up go the smoke and it blows here anyway. john: on the liberty meter otrump you give? >> a 5. john: and hillary? >> a 1. john: finally let's rank the two candidates according to positions on right to bear arms. debating bernie sanders, hillary clinton defended new york's very restrictive gun laws. >> the facts are that most of the guns that end up committing crimes in new york come from out of state. they come from the states that don't have the kind of serious efforts to control guns like we do in new york. john: guns commit crimes. >> amazing, i guess they chase people down and the trigger pulls themselves, right? john: this month trump was endorsed by the nra. he supported a ban on assault weapons, longer waiting period to buy a gun after sandy hook. he sent out this tweet supporting president obama's push for gun control. >> he changed his mind on this because he thought that program or effort didn't work, but he does pack heat -- >> or he was roaming. >> he has a gun, he has a conceal carry permit. when you see him on the campaign trail, he might be packing heat. all of this didn't bother the national rifle association which endorsed him wholeheartedly, that says a lot. john: on the liberty meter, donald trump? >> i give him a 4. knock that down because of past statements otherwise he might earn a5. the fact that the nra endorsed him says a lot about the 2nd amendment. john: and hillary clinton? >> she spoke in a very positive fashion about what australia did which is basically a cash for clunkers for guns which involved the confiscation for guns and said that is perhaps worthwhile which you might want to try in this country. john: thank you. back to a time when donald trump made lots of sense. >> lots of people that don't produce and the producers are carrying those people, and that can only go so long. john: only go so long, and then what happens? >> and then it all implodes. tomorrow starts today. all across the state, the economy is growing, with creative new business incentives, and the lowest taxes in decades, attracting the talent and companies of tomorrow. like in buffalo, where the largest solar gigafactory in the western hemisphere will soon energize the world. and in syracuse, where imagination is in production. let us help grow your company's tomorrow - today - at business.ny.gov i don'or wonder whether i theshould seek treatment.c. i am ready. because today there's harvoni. a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. harvoni is proven to cure up to 99% of patients who've had no prior treatment. it transformed treatment as the first cure that's one pill, once a day for 12 weeks. certain patients can be cured with just 8 weeks of harvoni. harvoni is a simple treatment regimen that's been prescribed to more than a quarter of a million patients. tell your doctor if you've had a liver transplant, other liver or kidney problems, hiv, or any other medical conditions, and about all the medicines you take including herbal supplements. taking amiodarone with harvoni may cause a serious slowing of your heart rate. common side effects of harvoni may include tiredness, headache and weakness. i am ready to put hep c behind me. i am ready to be cured. are you ready? ask your hep c specialist if harvoni is right for you. [bassist] two late nights in blew an amp.but good nights. sure,music's why we do this,but it's still our business. we spend days booking gigs, then we've gotta put in the miles to get there. but it's not without its perks. like seeing our album sales go through the roof enough to finally start paying meg's little brother- i mean,our new tour manager-with real,actual money. we run on quickbooks.that's how we own it. . john: it got depressing, scoring the candidates tonight. when it comes to liberty, they both score so low. there is, however, a little good news. donald trump has at least run some businesses. few politicians have. also refreshing that he doesn't apologize for his financial success. >> i'm really rich. i'll share that. john: he is crass when he talks about, it but at least he doesn't present wealth as if it's something he should be ashamed of. >> all my life. i've been good making money. >> greedy, greedy, greedy. johnhe's been greedy, that's fine, normal people don't like to say that. most of us want money for ourselves. in business, such greed is useful because the way to get rich in america is to serve your customers well. and business, unlike government, is voluntary. no wop's forced to do business with trump or live in his buildings, unfortunately, now that he wants to be president, he's put a weird twist on his greed. >> i want to be greedy for the united states, i want to grab all that money. john: grab all that money. like he thinks there's a thick pile of money in the world, and we'd be better off if we grab more of it than china does. that part flunks the liberty test. he thinks if china gains, we lose, but that's not true, not a zero-sum game. when people are left free, we can prosper together. trump doesn't understand. that assuming he means what he says. at least trump does get that when it comes to taxes it's not a zero-sum game. raising taxes does not mean government will collect more money. >> our country has to watch it with taxes because we will lose companies and people. john: he said that some years ago when i interviewed him about makers and takers. >> lots of people that don't produce and the producers are carrying those people, and they can only go so long. john: only go so long and then what happens? >> then it all implodes. john: he went onto complain democrats want to raise taxes too much. >> you once proposed a 14% onetime tax on rich people? >> well, i think that rich people can afford a certain tax, but once that tax is paid, you can't go above a certain limit. the rich people are going to leave, and other people are going to leave. you're going to end up with lots of people that don't produce, and then that's the spiral. that's the end. john: he deserves a higher score on the liberty meter for saying that, but now i wonder maybe he was just pandering to his interviewer. me. he also told me this. >> look, they've got to be careful with the spending. the spending is out of control in this country. john: yes, it is. now on the campaign trail trump says he's going to make the military bigger than anyone's seen before and not cut a penny from entitlements. yikes! bankruptcy, here we come. still, if we score the candidates on liberty, hillary is worse, she wants to micromanage every inch of our lives. >> our roads, our bridges, our airports, our rails. >> raise the federal minimum wage. >> make sure women get equal pay for the work we do. john: and so on. much worse than her husband when. bill was president, she crafted an early version of obamacare. hillary care, and she said this. >> the president believes we want to retain or should want to retain competitive market forces. john: bill believed that she said she sounded sad that there would be competitive market forces. and even if that speech, she talked about a grassroots movement that would achieve a single payer system. every day she's president, liberty will die a little. both candidates are a threat to liberty. on that scale there, i give clinton a 1 and donald trump a 1. the only candidate who i know will honor liberty is the libertarian candidate, maybe this election since the major party options are bad, so bad, maybe this time the libertarians have a chance. they sure have my vote. that's our show. see you next week. >> i'm very capable of changing to anything wants to change to. down* i'm sick of both these people and sick of the endless coverage of them. most of what they will do will be bad. the best comes from the private sector. but people look to government. they think it's sharing. so when people propose better,