journalist and author of his new ofk march, 1917 on the brink war and revolution. it is amazing how much happened in one month. talking about what is happening in america, europe, how the events intersect. and finally we have ryan ballow, the professor of history at the university of virginia. he is the cohost of one of my favorite podcasts, and if you are fellow history were -- nerd, i suggest checking out back story. gives the background stories of a lot of things happening in the news. it is hosted by a quartet of top historians. hear a greatse national prostitution center welcome for michael kazen, will england, and ryan fellow? [applause] >> thank you, all three of you, for being here. before we turn to what was happening in the u.s., i would like to back up for a moment and think about briefly what was happening in europe, why isn't the european powers got into what did they and hope to accomplish. i will turn the question to you, ryan. ryan: the short story of what was happening immediately before the united states got into the andwas trench warfare warfare in the atlantic. the french, germans, british were bogged down in a kind of carnage that the world had never seen before, and the war, frankly, was going nowhere on the ground. the combatants turned to chemical weapons, horrible, incredible carnage, and they were at odds with each other 1916 for almost a year just a standoff killing each other. there were at least 300,000 soldiers killed. that is what americans saw happening on the ground. americans were much more interested and self interested in what was happening on the seas. i will not take you through the submarine warfare and non-submarine warfare, but basically the germans' only chance of making a stranglehold on supplies, the british blockade was to use submarine warfare. they understood that if they used it, it would bring the americans into the war. they gambled they could win the war, break the blockade before america could get its act together and enter the war. gamble.they lost that americans were more riveted on what was happening on the seas because that is what was killing americans when the germans at the submarine warfare beginning of 1917. >> before we get to the u.s. entry, can you give us a sense of where america stood, its role in the world, the size of its military, the american people's 's view of what america's role should be in the world? will: the military was infinitesimal. there was basically no army at all. they wanted to chase poncho villa in mexico, had to use natural -- national guard units. america by the teens had become the richest country but was very reluctant to play any role on the world stage other than the spanish-american war with cuba and the philippines. isolationistf an wave that was generated at that time. there was also an eastern front, and the russians were fighting the germans and the austrians. it was not as static as the western front, but it was equally bloody. millions of men were fighting sidesthat front on both with tremendous casualties. was puzzled -- puzzled is the wrong word -- had a difficult time making a choice, looking at the germans or russians because russians to americans with a quintessential tyrannical despotic, incompetent power. it was like the most horrible countries in the world are fighting each other. what is great about both of your books is you introduce us to some forgotten figures in this. riod of time. the central figure is a familiar one, woodrow wilson. michael, can you give us a sense of who was woodrow wilson, what sort of leader, where does he stand on the ideological spectrum? michael: he was president at a -- he had a multifaceted ideology, but he was in favor of having a stronger role in the economy. he pushed for the federal reserve act and the eight hour day for parole -- real word of -- railroad workers. he was in favor of the income tax which was just begun under his administration. he believed in local reform, a dre democratic with a small society. he is also known infamously now for segregating the federal government in several departments. democratic the big d party as well. a presbyterian. his father was a presbyterian minister. wilson really believed the united states had a mission in the world, and he was fairly 1917 aboutuntil whether the u.s. can mission by getting involved in the war and join the allied powers, because there was never any possibility of joining the germans and austro-hungarian's or the ottomans, the central powers, or if it would be better for the united states to say away from the fighting -- stay away the fighting, being neutral, so he could be mediating. bring about what he called an amazing speech in january 1970, at peace without a victory. he believed a piece in which one side to be mockery and belittled, the other side was laying the groundwork for future wars. he was right. >> what did wilson mean? what was -- if you got what he wanted. ryan: i think it would have looked something like the proposal for a league of nations that emerged. it would have given a lot of autonomy to not only nations themselves but sections of nations to control their own destiny. wilson was a folk euro to people in the colonies at least for a while. people in southeast asia, people in india. ho chi minh, who became famous and notorious as the leader of north vietnam, wrote a letter to woodrow wilson in the 1920's saying that he was his hero because wilson really stood up for in a minority groups -- for minority groups within majority countries. he imagined these autonomous decisions being mediated like some kind of international arbitration, and what people don't recognize, they think of wilson, league of nations -- that is a movement that started in the 1890's. there were conferences in the united states and the hotel didn't thate way, i cross-country skiing once. congress is in the hague in the 1890's to begin to work out this notion of settling disputes peacefully. michael talked a lot about that. >> that is right. we will get to that in a second. there is one place on the table, one other character is theodore roosevelt, post-presidency. role in theout his push towards war, his relationship with wilson and how their visions of america were similar or different at that point? >> teddy roosevelt was a progressive, and he had become the primary proponent of preparedness as they called it, building an army and navy and industrial plant to supply that. secondly he wanted to get into the war. he felt pretty early-onset this was war between autocracy and democracy, russia notwithstanding. they knew a world would arise from it and it was incumbent on the u.s. to make it the right kind of world. the u.s. had to prove its manhood, as he put it, on the battlefield. by the early 1917, he had a plan to raise a division of volunteers he himself would lead in france. become a bitd caricature of himself and away, but he had a very compelling caricature. he had to be careful to not criticize wilson, so he did not torpedo that. public, he was trying to hold back as much as he could. he did not always succeed. >> it is interesting was how wilson got around allowing tr to have this division. he was in favor of conscription, selected services, the draft. he pushed that through congress to make sure that would take up all the energy so people would not say, it is not voluntary anyway, why should i go? tr wanted the draft as soon as the war was going. we couldn't say the draft is good, but give me my division. >> there was wonderful correspondence between tr and baker who was secretary of war. thicker trying to be polite but blow him off. they went back and worth. we do get into war, the army will have to be led by an actual , a qualified officer. teddy roosevelt sent him a note reminding him he had served as a commander. [laughter] >> he liked to be called colonel roosevelt after stopping president. colonel roosevelt. michael, your book is an extraordinary talent of world war i. you described as the largest, most diverse and most sophisticated peace coalition at that point in u.s. history. can you talk about who comprised the coalition? when did it peak, and who were some of the cheerleaders? -- key leaders? michael: southern democrats, segregationists, that included people with follow see, the guy from wisconsin who was in favor of human rights and civil rights. socialists at a time when the socialist party was as strong as ever was. feminists, suffragists, children. every major organization had leaders in favor of keeping the u.s. out of the war but the issue of preparedness. it was one of these movements that was a movement outside the realm of power and in congress as well. it had a coalition between supporters of it in the capital and also wilson himself was at times seemed like he was a member of many members of the coalition like jane adams, a pacifist, suffragists, met with wilson in the white house. she was convinced he wasn't on their side. that was why they would keep to the fire, make sure he did not do anything in a serious way to jeopardize american neutrality. pollst no public opinion at the time, but it is pretty clear, we know this from untilony from congress, early 1917, it is likely most americans opposed going to war. minoritysevelt was a at that point. it was a sophisticated coalition too. one of my favorite examples is the group against american military unit terrorism. brooklyn.p a group in they had the model of atreides .esurrects, but a scale model -- h renesola wrists racks. rex. tyrannosaurus it was a metaphor for what they thought was going on in the war in europe. >> they did not have public opinion polls. they had she music. that was a great way to measure what people were listening to, what kind of songs they were singing, the really popular sales of sheet music would get turned into recordings. the sheet music was all about staying out of the war. it was titles like, i didn't raise my gun to fight the huns. that really shifts when america gets into war, but before the war started, that measure of public opinion is running against going into the war. , thee thing about that main activists in this movement, this broad movement in congress were not isolationists. it has been a term going around too much inaccurately. they believed as wilson did the leave it ins should bringing about a more peaceful world, harmonious, democratic. it is why many have been involved in the attempts to figure out legally away to outlaw war, come up with arbitration agreements. it is not believed the united states to keep itself separate from the problems of the world. they wanted americans to dive in. he did not want to do in a warlike way. your book describes the title into march 1917. monthy is most critical for this century to come. those are big words. what are things happening in that the civic month that were so important? -- that specific month that were so important? will: wilson is still trying to broker peace. it is kind of guaranteed by the united states. but not to go through too many events, what we had was the renewal of submarine warfare after wilson called for peace without victory. >> >> they said it was a good idea, then wait a minute. torpedoingey are ships. then you have the zimmerman telegram which is offering mexico part of the southwest if they would join germany in the war against the united states, but it was conditional. , considero war joining us. we might have the japanese. they were trying to keep wilson opinion was public at don by the east coast newspapers in charge of the war. they began to tell there was a thinking without warning where 15 died. the people were brutal. and then we have the russian revolution, the czar chucked off the throne by our calendar arch 15, -- march 15, and americans thought it was a thunderclap, a democracy in russia. democracy has taken root overnight. it is incumbent upon the u.s. not only to support russia psychologically, but we should enter the fight to protect and extend democracy for the rest of europe. that is the tipping point. we have the election of 1916 and wilson running as a person that kept us out of the war. michael gives us a sense of how wilson was in measure with the police coalition, then we are in -- the peace coalition, then it is 1917. what should we make of wilson? was he changed by the events, was he deceptive? how should we think about him in the shift? by thee was changed events, he had been trying to keep the united states out of the war for sure. effortspens now are the that were made to go to war before 1916. these were behind closed doors, but wilson strongly allied with the allies. he was certainly never going to the centralainst powers, and the united states was very in tangled especially with great britain that financial relationship, and wilson was somebody who understood there needed to be some balance in the war, and as he said before 1916, america might have a greater role in influencing peace if it were actually belligerent. for the time.m but wilson had, and i have heard from others, he had genuine public passions and emotions that would be unleashed by the war. wilson certainly bears the blame for some of the violations of civil liberties that is to, we could at least give some credit for the premonition that getting into war, unleashing emotions and passions -- i'm looking at you michael, is that ok? >> i think that is true. some people make a lot of the fact he was from the south, that he had experience reconstruction . .e grew up in a defeated nation this had an impact on him. he wants to make sure in the united states went to war, it would not result in that kind of humbling of another nation. thought thetime, he united states was the best in the world. the u.s. could show these terrible european powers and empires a better way to conduct their affairs. one can imagine talking about the kind of towers and ho chi you try tohe letter, meet wilson in power at the peace conference, and wilson did not try to meet him. fascinating egg or because he is ambivalent about aggression. -- fascinating figure because he is ambivalent about aggression. i think that helped explain why theurned against them in vociferous way that he does. he thinks it is fine to fan the newspapers from the mail. find to put people in jail for giving speeches against the war. >> and the germans themselves understood and they resumed submarine warfare. they said america was going to enter the war. it really wasn't a terrible surprise that wilson did change his position and enter the war. in some ways he did not have any choice. went toerman ambassador the secretary of state, robert lansing, and told him that this decision that the german resume on had made to the uber warfare, he walked away with tears in his eyes. he knew they would lose the war. >> the die was cast. >> and the first three ships that went down, a german u-boat was surfaced, gave warning, the cruise off onto the votes, no casualties of any time that any kind. this was driving teddy roosevelt crazy. dishonored the united states, behind the skirts death we are hiding behind the skirts of the british navy. you can make a case for the ship, it used to be british, it wasn't carrying timbers to italy or more materials. think still trying -- i he also knew shipping was kind of a puny excuse to get involved in the biggest war in the history of mankind. >> the question is, why didn't he go to war sooner? -- part of the peace coalition was art of the democrat party. remember his secretary of state, lillian jennings bryan -- william jennings bryan, very popular, had resigned earlier because he knew even with wilson saying that he thought wilson was too militaristic. wilson had balance in different parts of his party and among that was a part michael talks about in his book. alluded to it, but can you tell us more? mobilizing we are for war. can you talk about the wilson administration's push to quell this? , what didter the work they do, what was the event? congress passes the espionage act. they have things that ramp up the severity of other -- the espionage act was called the espionage act. hardly anybody was prosecuted for spying during the war. it was all about stopping people from opposing the war verbally, in the press. prosecutors,ading so to speak of the espionage act was the postmaster general from texas, who took it on himself the press. to censor he did not like editorial or a feature, he would say, this paper cannot be mailed. it is essential to the popularity of these papers. believing radical magazine in america at the time was called of memphis -- called the masses. there was a prolabor magazine that was closed down by the government because it -- and the draft which is a new thing for america. there was no draft in the civil war. moreraft in the south was popular in the confederacy. famous journalist wrote that no construction league, and that was a violation of the act of congress because it was potentially disrupting the possibility of raising an army to go to europe and fight with the allies. so this was really the most oppressive time to civil liberties in american history. my argument looks at -- it was not irrational in a sense. with looking back, there is horror, we don't see this kind of oppression against people opposing the war. but at the same time, there was a large sentiment opposing going to war. there had been in these acts that you could argue, it's not necessary, and attempt to make sure there's not as protesters. anyone who proposed this would be clamped down on. and working on something through more short lived for for for a short time. american troops in the gutter to dutch claims in greater numbers in the last six months of the war. >> quick, and there was a minority within the anti-workgroup -- a conscription because come in addition be a rich man -- governments fight. everyone should take part. this also conscription of the wealth. >> that quotation -- this guy mentioned before, like -- in the house he pushed her heart for much more progressive income tax, excess profits tax on corporations making a lot of money. both tasks. so about the -- site administration -- the pro-war messaging that they did. can you took little been about -- call it propaganda coming from work and feel us enter the war? >> the committee was set up -- a guide named george creel cummaquid spent most of his time as a newspaper editor, kind of a political operative, another progressive. his idea was that, rather than using the comprehensive censorship of the european technique would be to flood the country with good propaganda. there was censorship on military matters, not on what you might consider cultural or social stuff. he had the cooperation of a lot of newspaper editors. the constant torrent of feel-good stories, inspiring stories about america got into papers across the country. phenomenon this called, the four-minute men. an idea that came out of chicago -- when you are going from one real to the next -- next feature showing. this case would stand up during that four minutes, give a four-minute inspiring speech about america, the red cross. food, or why democracy was good. it was always up beat. they're buried in will join the weree of -- if there lithuanian, sioux minutemen. >> they were the twitter. [laughter] >> run coming can be give us a but the scale the central governments to mobilize the war? how fresh perhaps some of the increase for the federal government -- haverford paraded in decades thereafter? >> sure. the united states, had a very small army, small navy. had to mobilize pretty much from scratch because they had not done much preparedness. but wilson made a decision early on to try to tap the voluntary sector,and the private rather than command things from the top. good example of the way they organized the political economy was through this agency called, they war industries board. it was 1 -- run by a popular figure in the private sector, also a political operative. the way the war industry board worked was a series of cooperative agreements with industry, all kinds of sectors of industry. rather than say -- establishing quota for production, they were a lot -- fall on voluntary agreements within industries to produce so much for the war effort, to try to comply with price maximums. anotherhoover was person, an engineer who had organized a massive effort to seize starving belgians before america was in the war, he became known as the flow star -- he relied again, on voluntary efforts. there were 2 -- i don't know what happened to the pork lobby -- there were two days where americans went without pork. the idea was to tap into america's patriotism, public spirit, and to use the american people themselves voluntarily, to create the kind of prescriptions that were needed in order to support the war effort. very similar effort was made. michael mentioned taxation, and 35% of the war or so was funded through a progressive increase tax three but, the rest of the war was funded through debt, a lot of that debt can to popular war bond campaigns. people made little money on those bonds, but everybody but bonds. they were issued in small denominations. peopleddle-class or poor could show their patriotism by buying more bonds. this sets a precedent for how america would fund its worse in the future. >> there was mild coercion involved. >> absolutely. >> if you worked for an employer who is in favor of the war -- a must employers were -- he made sure that you knew whether you are buying more bonds are not. there were voluntary organizations, religious ones and otherwise were expected to publicly say how many war bonds they bought. in 1917 elections -- and i read for mayorho went on of new york as an anti-war platform. we got almost 1/4 of the vote an race.ur-m he got in trouble during the campaign because he said, i do not think i will buy any war bonds. [laughter] >> the flip side of all of this was a dark, coercive element. the flip-side of the four minutemen, was the american protection league. a voluntary groups, very grassroots, they would report suspicious activity, people who didn't seem to be all in for the war. there were tens of thousands of such reports. there is a real coercive element that went along with these voluntary efforts. likewise in the economy, there were groups that reported people charging prices they thought were too high. there's a kind of -- not big brother, but, lots of little cousins. [laughter] >> chattering away about people who might not really be behind this war enough. >> one reason you had to have that was, like -- even unlike world war ii, there was never any sense that the u.s. itself is under threat. it wasn't existential, you had to persuade people that this was something we needed to support. >> one example of these voluntary coercive connection -- the american protective league, the appeal that brian mentioned, was charged by the justice department with trying to make facethat young men did not -- updated draft law straight at one point, infamously in new york city in 1918, march, the atl engaged in this massive raid . it -- they rounded up 250,000 men in new york city. they checked their papers and pointed to movie theaters, restaurants, workplaces. apl -- justice department said, i think we will not give you this power anymore. there's voluntary organization -- these guys are not paid by the government. >> the early 20th century was of amazingod constitutional creativity. we had the sandwiched -- we had sandwiched around world war i, the 17th amendment, and the 18th and 19th. to what degree did those movements intersect with or affect the debate over world war i? >> the biggest debate in the period that i wrote about was about the president's warmaking powers. a term of congress was coming to an end, he wanted authorization to put guns on merchant -- vessels, thinking that armed neutrality would be way to deal with a u-boat threat without getting into the war. one of the leaders of a filibuster in the senate -- they attitude was coming your leading with your chin. the ship, you will get into a fight. we will stumble into a war we don't want. .o there was a filibuster the measure died. one the congress had expired march 4, wilson issued an executive order that guns would be put on ships. it never happened because we got into the war, but it did create quite a stir. he had to make a promise to the senate that he would not take the country to war without going kukoc -- to congress and asking for declaration of war. that atmoved beyond this point, but that was the primary issue at that time. i will say also that because he was so angry at this group of men who carried out the filibuster, the administration leaned on the new senate. they introduced the cloture rule for the first time. limited.rs could be last week that rule is extended further. 2/3,r that incident it was we just moved to 3/5. these are constitutional issues we are dealing with today. is still one act the books. -- when a person was indicted for leaking secrets, it was under the 1916 espionage act. back -- it will probably be, he will be indicted under that act pack -- past 100 years ago. >> the other constitutional issue is the push by organizations to extend the vote to women nationally. the first woman elected to congress from montana, a progressive republican, promised that her first act in congress would be to introduce this is a b anthony amendment to the constitution to extend -- the susan b anthony amendment which would extend the vote to women. war.n had asked for the a lot of thegh usual dividing lines. until the women's movement, you have those who said we need to support the president or we will undermine our own cause. then you have a polite rankin who felt, it's not going -- worth going to war for our cause, you have the same thing in the labor movement and the african-american community as well. huge divisions. >> thank you so much for the questions here, we will get right into it. doing in the courts connection with restrictions on speech and the press during this period? >> basically they were saying, whenever congress has passed is fine. once in a while, a court would say no, so-and-so -- is not so bad. you shouldn't be arrested for that, and they went to some people go. there was a case, anti-war groups tried to get the draft labeled unconstitutional under the 13th amendment, involuntary servitude. that's a clause in the 13th amendment, which was passed to outlaw slavery. in 1865. -- unanimously, or only one vote for the court said no. >> and that same case, the shank case, is the case where we get a lot of language today where we talk about free speech. but a wendell holmes clear and present danger if -- speech present one, it can't be allowed. important -- very he talked about people falsely, yelling fire in a theater. two situations and which the protections of free speech need to be loosened, because there was a present danger. >> other justices by the mid- 20's had recoiled from that. first of all, the war in retrospect was much less popular , than it had been when americans were actually fighting. but the mid-20's, the famous case called the gitmo case, a radical socialist to said, the american government should be overthrown by the working class, basically. this case helped to lead what is called, the corporation and the bill of rights. until then, most amendments to the plight of states, only the federal government. i think in large part as a result of world war i, now something we take for granted, the bill of rights, especially the first amendment, is applied it to the states as well. for that if you were in mississippi or alabama and you said it's something that the authorities of alabama or mississippi didn't like, completely constitutional to put you in jail, or prosecute you. because of the experience of world war i, views changed. for the better i think. >> what would ironically be one of wilson's own appointee is louis brandeis, a profit of free speech. , and allis for eddie of you. what lessons do you see coming of world war i for our present times? [laughter] the war launched america in a completely new direction as we were talking about today. , in his address asking for a declaration of war, put what we would think of as human rights and democracy at the forefront. two ideals have what the merits of foreign policy. he put them at the top. americans discovered that that was a motivating way of approaching foreign policy. going into the world to make the world -- and our image was the idea -- but to spread will listen cold white civilization. today we might say western values, around the world. our current president would seem to have campaigned on the idea of ending that era. i'm not sure it can be ended -- sohink these -- it is ingrained into the american character, it would take more than one presidential term to bring that to a close. the famous literary critic, political commentator randolph , wrote a lot of essays during the war. the famous line from one essay, not published until after his death he said, war is the health of the state. brains at his desk is distinguished american historian. it's hard to separate were 10 -- national security state we have come from the state generally. of the structures in the state we still have in many ways, stem one way or another from the world were experience. the ones that don't stem from the world war ii experience their american roosevelt, it dedicated wilsonian. i -- sawrld war himself trying to deplete the legacy of wilson. we should think about how we understand our government -- peaceful terms and war-like terms, think about whether we broadly androd -- inclusively powerful security state. and if so, why. >> world war i is a great lesson of thehing us to be wary passions unleashed during wartime. democracies have a fundamental problem. how do you convince citizens to give their lives in order to consider democracies. the basic way to convince them is through patriotism. that patriotism requires a lot of passion. you've heard this message -- mentions progressives. one of exam questions -- who wasn't progressive in this area -- air rough? era? exports, and in objective science. comes out of nations of assembling the best experts in the world, to suggest what to do. but things didn't work out and for kind of passionless way any part of wilson's agenda. that's because he needed to stir up passion to get into the war to suppress strong sentiments. the lesson for today is, because what you wish for. when democracies go to more than by stirringlly only up passion. for tends to be very bad any contest kinds of minorities and those democracies. irish and. had large german minorities, rushing to support england -- did they have an impact on the debate in the entry to the war? >> very much so, especially in the greek -- earlier's. the largest ethnic organization and america was -- 2 million members. it was financed -- i wouldn't be surprised to hear -- by the -- ands khamenei pabst the pabst and others. they argued that the u.s. shouldn't send arms to anybody. there should be an embargo on folding arms come at a time of the american industry was beginning to get her upcoming late 1940's-early 19 -- 1914-1915. they couldn't sell arms to the germans just as i mentioned before, the british navy headlines all over the north sea. most people don't know about it 120 something americans who died in may, 1915. that person and to the organization.n by that point, americans didn't necessarily want to get the war, but they knew they wouldn't take about germany in the same way again. irish-americans more complicated. they were the leaders of the catholic church at the time, almost every one of the country. irish-american republicans, small or, not the republican party, were opposed to the united states going to worse it -- to support the british empire. -- or let the catholic church -- they had other ethnic catholic story about, talents shofar on the side of the allies, and gearing reporter of the australian-hungarian empire. es who wanted an independent polish nation. number they were never -- the germans were never given that right. as time went on, the catholic inrch -- were more effective convincing most irish-americans , to seert the war themselves primarily as americans, as opposed to having their loyalty more than struggling for independence in ireland. >> if i could elaborate, you're talking about less than a year of -- 16. fierce nationalist dealing with -- anti--- anti-british feeling of st. patrick's day dinner in oakland. teddy roosevelt name was mentioned. it met with booths. 's. some thought he would keep them out of the war. a lot of angry our choices from weeks preceding it dialed back down again. you didn't hear much about that. there's a famous national guard whichnt in new york -- ne acquitted well on the western front. livedto read uncles who on francis street here, both drafted. wounds. from patriotism,american came to the four largely in that ethnic >> the famous song of course, written by george m cohen. in terms of the implications for today, you have heard talk about our special relationship with great britain. in many ways, this begins, comes out of world war i. take her great -- we take it for granted. the irish were no friends of the british throughout the 19th century in american history, and of course, britain was our great enemy during the revolution treat this was not an automatic war. -- revolutionary this was not an automatic thing. >> when would the federal government finally be segregated? [laughter] >> it was gradual. i grabbed -- a grad student ready to -- wrote a dissertation about this. in the 1940's, harry truman had a commission which -- it was part of the desegregation wave of the federal government in the 1940's and 19 four -- 50's and 60's. >> although truman very famously calls it the second ration of the milk -- desegregation of the military, it wasn't actually desegregated during the korean war. there's a fascinating dissertation. the reason the army finally got desegregated was it became too complicated to come up with separate units, black and white, separates doctors, black and white, separate chaplains. it was the need to get those troops to korea in the 1950's that was the first time that the military was truly desegregated. >> this only happened because of the freedom movement. it didn't happen -- most of the see was a southern town -- washington dc was a southern town. when i got here in the 60's as an intern. it was clear it was not desegregated. there were certain places that if you are black, you didn't go. are out ofately, we time. i can tell to the three of you forever. please give a thank you to our guests. [applause] there will be able to signing downstairs in the lobby, with will and michael. >> interested in american history tv? visit our website, c-span.org/history. you can view our tv schedule, and what college lectures, music tours, archive of films, and more. american history tv at c-span.org/history. said the innate, helene cooper -- helene cooper helene cooper discusses her book, madam president, the extraordinary journey. she is interviewed by congresswoman karen bass of california. >> when did you first meet madam president? >> i had known about her all my life. >> when to judo her? -- when did you know her? was 13-14. .he knew my parents she was somebody that, as a child growing up in liberia, i have heard of. criticizing the same government that she worked for. in 1985, she was arrested and certain to jail a samuel doe. . heard all about that she became a political icon. >> watch afterwards, sunday night at 9:00 eastern on c-span 2's book tv. >> a step away from war is a 28 minute film encouraging the minaret -- breaking a ministration to get a test ban treaty. posted by paul newman, it includes interviews. the program details the history of nuclear testing and treaties, including the 1963 partial testing treaty. 10 years after the film was released in 1996. united nations adopted a copperheads of nuclear test ban treaty. the treaty has not yet been fined and ratified by all of the required states. only north korea, pakistan and india have tested nuclear weapons 1996. ♪ [gong] ♪ ♪