Transcripts For CSPAN3 The Civil War 20161211

Battlefield because he was born in a hospital that sits on the battlefield grounds. This is a man who is deeply rooted in that part. He also has a passion for parks that reach beyond the boundaries of his daily work life. He is finishing up work on a book for the emerging civil war series. Earlier this afternoon, davis talked about the rise of John Bell Hood and we will talk about the beginning of the fall of that very same army. Ladies and gentlemen, mr. Lee white. [applause] mr. White i have a special connection there and it is one of the reasons why i tell that story. I became familiar with general patrick cleburne. My first really big civil war biography was on patrick cleburne. His story is set in franklin. I have been interested in it ever since one of the top experiences of my life is when i went to franklin for the 150th on the actual date, november 30, 2014, and i was there and i found out that there was a commemorative march. Hold on a minute. This picture is at the end. Those of you who know ed, it was truly an amazing experience. I have seen him many times. Following him literally, watching him outpace men half his age, so much younger than him, it was a truly amazing experience. One of the things i have always been real keen on was the soldiers, the common soldier. I think franklin plays that out. Chickamauga is said to be a soldiers battle. The soldiers suffer at franklin a great deal. This painting illustrates the army of tennessee as they would have appeared in the fall of 1864 when this Campaign Kicks off. Another thing, we are talking about a battle toward the end of the war. We are talking about a battle in middle tennessee. Why should that interest many of you around here . The rest of the story, so to speak. These are all commanders who will be at franklin who all have connections with this area of virginia. Featherstone, general kimball who fought jackson in the valley. Brigade commander. You have james wilson, whose last stints in the shenandoah valley. We have one of the confederate generals who died in franklin. A brandnew regiment. Still bringing in troops that late in the war. A few miles west of here cedar mountain, he is one of the soldiers there. He is a member of the seventh ohio. Old allegany johnson. Goes off to the prisoner of war camp. When he is released, he is transferred to the army of tennessee. This is the rest of the story, so to speak, with some of the local connections in northern virginia. When you really study franklin, John Bell Hood and his coming into command, franklin is a tragic episode for his army, but also for him. Hood tried, he really did, in some ways, just a guy way over his head. Some of it is his own making and some of it is the army he commanded. Backstabbing, backbiting, these guys spend more time fighting amongst themselves than they do fighting the other side. General hood should have known this. He expects the army to work like lees army does. He said he was a man of the lee and jackson school. Trying to do these flank attacks, tries to pull these things off but he cannot do it. Another thing with hood, his army is unwieldy. When he starts the Tennessee Campaign after the fall of atlanta, he does not have any veteran war commanders. Stewart is his senior Corps Commander and has been in command since june. This thing kicks off in september. As the campaign opens in september, he has Frank Cheetham commanding. After the fall of atlanta, he says, either he goes or i go. Jefferson davis steps in and transfers hardy out of the army. The armys high command is new and it is suffering from within on the lower levels. The Atlanta Campaign had seen a slow bleeding of the army of tennessees junior officers. The war was changing, just as it was changing in georgia, too. They marched out of dalton, georgia, preparing to fight the war the way they had been fighting. Trench warfare is coming in. Sharpshooters. Repeating weapons. These are starting to change the face of the war. By the end of may, 1864, the soldiers would not have recognized the war the year before, it has changed so dramatically. Hood having to deal with this changing mode of warfare, he now has to contend with new officers who are not gelling together either. The bad luck the army of tennessee has. That is what a lot of this comes down to. They just have bad lot. I make the analogy that the army of tennessee is kind of like the Charlie Brown army of the civil war. Every time they think they are going to kick the football, the football gets yanked out from under them. John mcallister schofield i am not a big fan of John Schofield. He is a selfserving little guy. Even with the battle of franklin, he is not so much the guy in charge of the army. He brings it there and he is worried about trying to get it out of franklin. General jacob coxe will actually do the defense. David stanley. This was about we will not spend a whole lot of time with schofield. We will talk about him here. We have the men who will fight this. Example of the western federal troops that herdsman will be facing and the men that hoods men will be facing. This common soldier is one of the things that interests me. Often times around july 3, on the internet, facebook, you see a lot brought up about the intruder in the dust, being the little boy on july 3. Mine is on november 30, on the afternoon waiting for the army of tennessees great attack. Wonderful painting here showing the fighting. It was a horrific fight. Lots of tragedy and drama and it all plays out as some of the worst fighting in the war. Hood suffers just under 7000 casualties. The key thing, of that number, 28 are dead. Gettysburg, closer to 20 . 20 more men die as a result of the battle of franklin then died at shiloh. You end up with 702 men captured. Hood moved into the fight with not his whole army. Against almost equal numbers in the union army. The u. S. Loss is over 2500. It is pretty onesided. The union army does not get out of it completely scotfree. What is also staggering, the number of officer casualties. This becomes a full on gushing wound. 55 regimental commanders are casualties in this battle, not including general patrick cleburne. It is truly a devastating fight. Today, there is not much left of it. There has been some extraordinary preservation efforts centering around the carter house. That becomes the heart and soul of the story. The family who finds their home on the fullscale view of an attack. This is looking across the ground at which the attack occurred. Looking from some of the union fortification lines. Franklin is a sad story in a lot of ways because such a dramatic story, although great efforts there, Still Development going on. What remains behind, some of the haunted reminders of the battle. One of the most bullets marked buildings in north america. You can still see the bullet holes, still visible there today. This is the dead of the battle of franklin buried on the plantation, visible in the distance. The attack moved over it all starts out as the result of a Long Campaign that has really not gotten much attention. Hood had to get from atlanta to franklin and it did not happen simply. It starts out, his initial plan, he will strike at the railroad. Sherman had this fascination on destroying southern railroads. Now it is hoods turn. Striking at the railroad, trying to draw sherman northward. His whole idea, he will get hood to give up atlanta by following him north into the mountains of georgia. He can let sherman attacked him and beat sherman in north georgia. That does not really happen. So then, he will move his army into northern alabama. A plan to strike into middle tennessee. To draw sherman, cause sherman to give up. He is going to eventually move over, developing another plan. When this is all going on, hood goes to alabama and sherman throws his hands up in the air. He throws his hands up and goes to atlanta and then starts moving on savannah. Two armies turned their backs on one another and go in opposite directions. But he did not completely leave hood alone. He sent George Thomas to nashville to gather a force to deal with hood. But that will take time, and time becomes a factor. If hood can cross the river, that could cause some real trouble. Grant and sherman express a good deal of concern about what is going on. Sherman also detaches two corps from his army. They end up in pulaski, tennessee. The birthplace of the ku klux klan after the war. That is where hood strikes across the river to drive off schofield. He has this reputation of being a guy, John Bell Hood is not tactically innovative. There is only one frontal attack that John Bell Hood ever orders as an Army Commander franklin. Most of his moves are trying to do flanking maneuvers. Schofield gets wind of it. There is a race to columbia, tennessee, and schofield gets in town just ahead of hood. Hood will then flank columbia, trying to hit the little town of spring hill, tennessee. Hood, his army gets there and all he needs to do is pull the trigger, but something happens. This gives a little bit more clarification. One of the people at fault is general Frank Cheetham. He says, i dont do night attacks. Only had to do was push his men across a few yards and it could have blocked schofield and history mightve been a little different. That leads everything to the evening of november 29. It ends with such Great Potential for hood. His men have the opportunity by 4 00, all they have to do is manage to get one division across the columbia turnpike, only a few hundred yards away most of one division out of the whole army and none of it happens. It is a huge bumbled mess. The union army slips right past. The confederates never push across. Some commanders pleaded to let them push on and it does not happen. The next morning, how do you think John Bell Hood feels . He would later write in his memoirs, the best move of my career as a soldier came and knocked. Came to naught. The next morning, he has a breakfast meeting. That is the one thing about this late in the war, sometimes we do not have the records that give us these answers. When sam hood found these papers, it was such a great thing because they helped us understand. There is still so much we do not know. We do not know who was at this meeting. Another little myth about John Bell Hood was that he was addicted to opium. There is no period evidence that hood was taking opiates. Hear, hear. [laughter] mr. White one little story becomes accepted fact. Anyway, he begins marching northward. He thinks John Schofield will march on. He will march all the way into nashville. He is gripping at this. That is why he will be absolutely stunned, and a little bit elated when he gets to franklin. He sees that schofield is still there. Schofield wants to get back to safety. When he gets to franklin, the river has risen in all of the bridges are washed out. His army is stuck until his engineers can get his army across. He does not think hood is going to attack him but he will order general jacob coxe to prepare the defense of the town. He will have a little bit to work with. There were some preexisting fortifications on the south side of town but his men were veterans of that Atlanta Campaign. It is wonderful to read how creative they are. They take all of the pews out of the chapel and start throwing dirt on top of them. They are taking parts of the Railroad Ties and adding them for fortification. He will have two natural advantages as well. On the eastern side of the battlefield, this area, some Property Owners have put up a natural barrier, osage orange. How would you describe osage orange . [inaudible] mr. White it is a nasty, thick prickly they will align their line along that. A few feet in front of them. They will cut it in half. They will take the tops of it and lay it out, intertwining the branches together. They will have that advantage. On the other side, right in front of the works, they will do the same thing with it, leaving the natural barrier there. These are going to play out pretty devastating, have pretty devastating results. Franklin had seen the presence of the union army before hand. There is a fort. It had not been in use since 1863. It will also play out devastating results as the confederates attacked. The natural barrier of the river, franklin is nestled in this bend through the river. Hood will form his army down here. The ground will funnel his army in together. They will be condensed as they move in and that will play all sorts of problems with command and control and the unit will stack up and become a mob. This is the terrain itself. Hood will arrive on the scene in the early afternoon of november 30 and the union rearguard will fall back. That was general george wagner. He will pull his men across the valley to a point about half a mile from the main union line where he will stop and ordered his men to halt. Two of his brigades do. His main brigade has been carrying the big load of the rearguard. We have been covering this, they marched all night from spring hill. His men did not have breakfast. He tells wagner to take a flying leap. He will move his troops all through the mainline and form them back here. An act of insubordination. He and wagner screaming at each other. Think about that as far as getting away with that with a commanding officer. He will play a pretty big role in things coming up. Once the rearguard looks over the hill in the field, they decide to we will make the fight. He will meet with his commanders and tell them what they are going to do and they do not like it. It does not look promising. Hood sees this is the last chance he has. If they get to franklin, they get to nashville and there is no getting them. This will be a hail mary pass. It will be a frontal assault and hood will launch it with less than an hour of daylight. He may be looking back to his earlier career when a similar situation near richmond, that is where he earned his reputation. A lot of similarities. But it worked and he has been trying these flanking maneuvers. The semiinfamous confederate calvary men will urge another flank maneuver. Lets go straight up the middle. What will play out is he only has two of his corps with him. Ap stewarts corps and Frank Cheethams corps and they are going to deploy. Stewart will deploy down here. Cheetham will deploy here. The plan is to hit them in the center and try to break the line, try to drive the army into the river. So thats what you are going to have happening basically hood states about this, the country around franklin is open and exposed to the full view of the federal army. I cannot mask the movement of my troops so the out of flank of the enemy and if i attempt it he will withdraw and precede me into nashville. While his immediate center is very strong his flight is we. His flanks are weak. He is also trying to overrun the flanks of the army. He states that stewarts core will attack that side, cleburne and she them will attack the center and move the division northward before cleburne and brown in order to attack concurrently with them. Thats basically what will happen. Generals go back and have meetings with their commanders and explain what will happen. He said give orders to your men not to in your front then press them and shoot them in the back while running to the mainline and fix your bayonets charge and breach the enemys line at all hazards. Cleburne looks at it and says general i will take those works or fall in the attempt. He is fatalistic in this campaign. At this point it is starting to really happen, sees the war effort falling apart. He stated in an earlier speech that said this cause that is so dear to may fall. That afternoon they start getting ready for the attack, soldiers, the union Center Writing back to family noted, brother john is a few steps away , far to the south i hear a band. Looking around i see willie crying and told he just received word of the dying of his only daughter by smallpox. I hear captain are saying to lieutenant, you think the war will be with us today . The lord will be with us today . Silently i said a prayer. Some of the boys check hands with our captain. The air is hazy and i see a few rebels being deployed in the line of battle in the far distance. It is 3 30 p. M. , 30 minutes before the attack again. The Union Soldiers dont believe this is happening. But it has happened. The confederates form up and they are having the same type of reaction. Some are shaking hands and going to their chaplain, even in some cases, sharpshooters that the army of tennessee had, they are supposed to operate at a distance and even they start showing up, to go into this attack. There is a fatalism that has settled over the Confederate Army not only cleburnes fall, they know their cause is lost. Many of them are willing to go down fighting. One of the heating units the missouri brigade, kind of like marilyn stewarts troops, and the missourians were seen as orphans sense missouri was seen as a border state. They had a large number of st. Louis irish and the soldiers are trying to break the heavy tension, one of this. One pops up. England expects every man to do his duty today. One of the irishman says dam fine little duty that england will get out of this irish crowd. And the last laugh was raised long and hardy. Prospects dont look good. As the meeting breaks up, general daniel who commands the arkansas brigade says well general, there are few of us boys going to get back to arkansas after this and claver cleburne looks at him and says, if we are to god, let us die like men. Die, let us die like men. And they ride down and start deploying at 4 00 the attack against and they step off the missouri brigade right shoulder shift arms, brigade forward, guide to center, quick time march. One soldier will note that their brass bands go into attack with them, saying it was an unusual thing for the toot to goe and charger with the shooters. They keep up for most of the way. Playing dixie. The army starts off moving in this grand pageant. The flags are flying. This army has lost so many men that the units are now very small and they start going across the field. Franklin is said to be pickets charge of the west. They were both attacks and they didnt work. They lead to legends and that is how this is. But they are covering two miles of open ground. It is not flat ground. You have these goalies. These gullies. The west side and the east side, you cannot see the rest of the army. As they stepped off the guns in fort grange start doing what they do best, long range fire. On the right flank just raining shrapnel, they are being torn apart stepbystep. After the Union Infantry deployed at the warning the chief artillery basically went around the line and positioned the guns along the line at different points. It creates these crossfires, so it is devastating what will happen. I came across some research that has been done on franklin that changes the perspective. They will have several small attacks and the whole army is not hitting at once. Cheatham going forward, that will stall them a bit. Two divisions of stewarts core slowed down by some terrain while his leftmost division frenchs division, he went into the attack with one brigade in front of the other. The first line here is part of the ends wenders advance position and installs them out. The missourians go through them. At the beginning they have one brigade ahead of everybody else and they are going straight up and hit the union line alone. Making it worse, they go in in front of a regiment with repeating rifles. They are here in front and in the flank and both flanks for a few minutes, the description of this fighting is unbelievably brutal. The officers are going down and it is devastating, these commanders and all. They are beaten back. Then the rest of the line starts hitting. Stewarts division catches up, they are going in. His two divisions, will go in and strike and so willed another brigade. It will slow them down and they cant get through it. A few feet from the work some of the most horrific descriptions of the battle, these guys charging forward and they cant get through that hedge. The officers are hacking at it with their sabers. They are trying to chop at it with axes. Rear troops are pushing in and they are literally getting killed there and getting stuck. To the osage orange. One soldier in the attack noted said, the smoke had settled in such a dense bank over the field in front that friend cannot be distinguished from foe. It was tearing up the ground and knocking trees around us. Playing at fort granger on their flank. The Union Soldier witnessing it noted, the right wing to commence firing still they never flinched. But defiantly moved on until they struck the head where they had run up against a wall. They made desperate efforts to penetrate it to no avail. Human nature could not stand the destructive nature that was upon them. When they reached the road they tried to force an entrance through the brush that had been cut down, i directed the fire of two companies down the road and they were compelled to flank again. These guys are trying their everything they can and they are just being slaughtered. That attack will play up. Stewarts men are not going to be able to move forward. Here are things play out, striking where newsline, wagner is able are able to hold on for a few minutes. This is one of the big debacles of the union army, his men are out front and blocking fire and the main line can offer to the center. One confederate who was going into this noted, they had gone forward this became in range of the yankees opened fire from behind and we were first killed and wounded our men. The flag fell. Colonel green said i will take the flag. Look after your company. Karl green carried the flag through without a scratch. He was the lucky one. They were killed and wounded men all around us so fast that no one heard the order charge given. When we saw the men rushing we raised our rebel yell and moved in double quick time but before we could reach the time, the yankees fled into disorder. So they are breaking and running now for the center of the union line here. Union troops watch this in disbelief. They couldnt believe wagner had kept his men out in front but he did. They are charging and upon the center and thats one of the best descriptions to one of the tennessee brigadiers george w. John browns division. George w. Gordon. No relation to john b gordon. Go into the works with them. This crowd was called up and foe separated through a thousand straining throats as we rushed on after the flying forces we had routed, killing some of their running. Capturing some who were slow on foot and sustaining little lost ourselves. Without a 100 paces of the main line the stronghold they opened fire and it seems like hell is self had exploded in our faces. The momentum of many of them carry them up and over the works , and they break through in the union center. But it doesnt go far. In the center there had been a secondary line of works constructed. As a breakthrough they will not be able to overcome it. Indeed one soldier noted, whose men had been posted in the back, his men would also charge. A simultaneous counterattack at this point. They did not wait for an order but spring over it the pits like tigers. With a shrill shout that was heard above the rebel yell, went pellmell into the mass of confederates that had taken our line and did not know what to do with it. At the same time, charlie scoville, cracked his whip around the ears of his artillery and drove them back to his guns. This was on the second line. They started running. They went with at it pickaxes and shovels. Slashing around them with ferocity of demons. In doing this type of thing, adding to it the fruits from the secondary line sealing the breach. This will transpire in the yard of the carter house. One of the soldiers noted the contesting elements was was hell turned loose. Pandemonium reigned there for about 50 minutes. The space of 1020 minutes. The scene we witnessed in that short time was so indelibly stamped upon the minds of the participants that even after a long time, we still remember them etched into our minds. It gives you an idea of this. This attack is going to be repulsed. Most are falling back into the ditch. They are not retreating back. They are only separated by a few feet from one another. Now bate goes in. The same story will play out. Attack had gone into the carter house. Chief bates is going to charge forward and he will get a break in the line. Two Companies Break and run. The 183rd ohio counter attacks. Clark will drive his men in. They start to seal the breach. Clark is killed in the attack following at the age of 21 commanding a regiment. And then bates retreats. Now, it is dark on the battlefield. But still not going to end. Night has settled over the battlefield. Ed allegheny johnsons men. Lee goes in and asks cheatham what he should do with johnsons men. He said that he had no orders to give. Now, ed johnson leads in, and attack illustrated here. This is at 7 00 p. M. They are advancing with torches. It tells you how desperate this is. Union soldiers could not believe what they were seeing. They had torches on the ends of the line to mark the center. The lurid and rapid flashes. And the torches presented a surreal site. They pitch in and it starts going to pieces again adding more casualties to the fight. Managos brigade, the colonel of the regiment said manago went down and then the next one went down. No one knew what to do. He finally ordered his own men to lay down. They did not get a share in the glory but he did not lose a lot of men either. And with those attacks, things die down until about 11 00 p. M. Or so when the fighting finally dies out that night. Many tragic scenes on the battlefield. The fighting in the carter frank yard. In that fighting, the 24th wisconsin was led by arthur macarthur, father of general douglas macarthur. He would be wounded there. The most dramatic tales of this battle carter. Todd carter. The son of the Carter Family whose home has witnessed all of this. Serving as a staff officer. He goes in with his hometown regiment. A short distance from his home, he is mortally wounded. He gets something many soldiers did not. He dies in his own bed. Wounded five times. This is the legacy of the battle. The union army retreats leaving hud with the field but it goes to nashville. There has been the death of an army here on this field. Cleborne is gone. Officer losses. Regiments were destroyed. But this is the hallmark. You have these generals dead or mortally wounded. Patrick cleborne. Carter. John adams. He dies when his horse runs up onto the earth works of the union line and is shot down at that point. But then, you have three generals wounded. Scott, manago and one captured. General george gordon. He was made a prisoner. This is illumination that happened on the anniversary. One candle representing all of the losses. I am generally not a fan of giving casualty numbers has it is hard to envision. But ultimately, it goes down to the men that fell. This is George W White cotton of the 37 georgia infantry. He is buried in that cemetery. Franklin fell at chicamonga. The story ends there on the battlefield. Then again, that is how it all plays out. So much of this is the story of the common soldier. White cotton, and all of those others go down at this point leaving a legacy of their bravery on the battlefield and a legacy for John Bell Hood which leads to a lot of misconceptions about him over the years which are now hopefully being addressed and cleared up to give him a fair shake so to speak. Thank you, all. [applause] questions for mr. White. Thank you very much. I was wondering as you were researching this and studying it, it seems that the similarities between williamsport in the defense of williamsport by general bowden and when we got there and the setup of the river, the way the town is built into the river and the reverse symmetry of the union in an attacking position in the confederates defending in here. And then the union did not attack, of course to the consternation of lincoln. I am just wondering, i guess this is more of a comment than a question to me, it is remarkable and i have not seen a lot of comparisons. I am not familiar with franklin. Could you comment a little on the similarities . Mr. White lee is trying to slip across the river as well as go schofield so there are some comparisons in that but whether you have the advanced strings in 1864. You have also got more of a preponderance of rifle guns. So i think the works are heavier because these guys have now, entrenching experts at this point. What happened to the remnants of the army after this battle . Did any of them ever play another role . Mr. White hood pursues to nashville. At this point, throughout the campaign, could has been hood has been unaware that his is the only Confederate Army that has been maneuvering up and down and can do some things. He shows up in nashville and George Thomas who had been passing the troops attacks a little over two weeks later and utterly destroys what is left of the army of tennessee. That is one thing that George Thomas is known as the rock. He also accomplishes Something Else you do not see. After hoods army retreats from nashville, he pursues and rides them into the ground. Other questions . Yes. I believe forest was involved in this, wasnt he . Mr. White to some degree. What was his role . Mr. White he played more of a role at spring hill. He suggests to hood to have a flank attack. But he does not become heavily involved there. Time for one more. They were in the process of buying property and restoring has that been accomplished in franklin . Mr. White they are still doing that and they are reclaiming large portions of the battlefield. The land has already been developed but eric jacobsen, who has been instrumental in the efforts there has been able to orchestrate a lot of good work there. But one of the coolest things as far as me geeking out over is they have been doing some archaeology. They have found some foundations and they also found where the union trenches were and they have excavated them. They are finding dropped bullets, dropped henry repeating casings. Now the archaeology is done, they are filling in the trenches with gravel. You can see with her where t he trench lines ran. Thank you very much. Ladies and gentlemen, lee white. Mr. White thank you. [captions Copyright National cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap. Org] today on cspan 3, at 1 00 a symposium on world war ii spies and. Codebreakers. In new and a spy rin york city and an American Family that aided the french resistance. The decision to join the resistance was very serious. She had a husband and she had a son, philip, jackson. By deciding to use this is a place where intelligence could meet, she was risking not only her life better husband and her sons. In the 1920s, italianamerican and artistic were tried and convicted and executed for robbery in massachusetts despite supporting evidence. A law professor discusses the controversy surrounding the case inside the Supreme Court chamber with introductions by Justice Ruth Bader ginsburg. , aat 9 10 p. M. On august 3 3, were and venzetti transferred to the death house. The boston press declare the case closed. 8 00, historian george nash talks about Herbert Huber some managerial efforts during world wars wanted ii. In the course of these exertions, hoover working without pay became an international hero. The embodiment of a new force in global politics. The formbenevolence in of humanitarian aid programs. For a complete schedule, go to cspan. Org. Next, in honor of veterans day, the friends of the National World war ii memorial cohosted a ceremony with the National Parks service at the world war ii memorial on national mall. The keynote speaker is allen hauerton who served as a rifleman and messenger and Company Communications sergeant with the u. S. Armys 84th infantry division. The 55minute Program Begin with flag presentations zoo r to over a dozen world war ii veterans in attendance