remembering the brave women and men that started the national organization for women. it was june of 1966 that they first got together. since nobody, we do not have anyone living who was at the first meeting, at the washington hilton. no, second meeting. come on. here is some of the history here. there was a very active women's bureau and the department of labor. in 1966, the democrats were in charge, president kennedy had been elected. the women from labor and uaw and other unions are very active in the department of labor and the women's bureau was led by feminists and they persuaded the president to call a meeting of commissions on the status of women. there were many states, i do not know if all states have them, but the commissions on the status of women were kind of organizing that was going on in the states without a feminist movement to kind of pull everyone together. the commissions often served as a place where women met and came together. kathryn clarenbach was the head of the commission in wisconsin and she was also head of the commission so she was a pretty big deal. she, along with other women came to a meeting of the commissions on the status of women. the eeoc had been created, title vii have been passed and the women around the country were getting really kind of mad that the enforcement of the law was not what they thought it should be. so, this meeting of the commissions allowed these women to come together. betty friedan was there. dr. pauline murray was one of the people that actually writes about the founding meeting and catherine conroy, who was my mentor and also from wisconsin, a book about her rights about that founding meeting. they were at the washington hilton and they were trying to figure out what to good. -- do. they met in betty's room and the was talk about a founding of a sort of naacp for women was needed. they were not ready to go over the edge that night and so they wanted to try one more time and then went to the government the next morning and they said, we want to move this revolution to mandate the eeoc to actually declare help-wanted men and women as an illegal strategy and they said, we do not do resolutions against other government agencies at a government meeting. that was it. at lunch they got together and they formed the national organization for women. then they had a founding conference which muriel will pick up that history. it is important i think to notice that it was a government meeting, the government money was used to get these women together and that they took advantage of that to actually form their own organization and to see what things they could do with the government's help and what things they had to do on their own. the other thing i think maybe muriel will talk about this, a lot of women worked for the government who were not able to be up front with the founding of -- but they were very instrumental. i will just say one or two things about myself. i was fortunate enough to know these fabulous women back in wisconsin where it went to a women's college, el reno college. sister jo was another founder and she was my history teacher. when now got founded they called me up and said, oh, you are going to love this. that is how i got involved and it changed my entire life. i worked in chicago as a national board member and had kind of a recycling in 1982 getting elected vice president of actions and that is how i got to washington. that is me. now, i have the pleasure, i am going to ask muriel to introduce herself. she is one of my longest colleagues in feminism. i met muriel fox in the early days and she is not only founder but she is a mentor, a wonderful person that is made such enormous contributions to the rights of women in this country and i am proud to be on the same platform with you. muriel. [applause] muriel: thank you, mary. i just want to mention. you did not mention one thing, that you really kept now going in the early days, running all of our mail orders, all of our mailings, everything we did. i think this was perhaps when the labor unions walked out because the automobile union really served as our secretary and our treasury in the early days, but then when we decided to support the e.r.a., they said they could not do it anymore because it was against the union policy and mary jean stepped in with her husband, jim collins, and they really did all of this work for us. we would have been lost without them. [applause] muriel: well, we did it. it is very important, and i'm going to say this again later, when people talk about the modern women's revolution, it is now that did it. it began exactly 50 years ago with the founding of now. that is where it all started. before that, it was the dark ages. for thousands of years women were the property of men. they were subordinate to men and it all changed because of now. we can certainly be very proud of that. i would also like to say it all changed very much because of one woman we must not forget, betty friedan. [applause] muriel: those of us who knew her personally, she was a pain in the neck. as i have said at her memorial, she was not a good woman but she was a great woman. [laughter] muriel: i also had the honor of being the first speaker at betty's funeral and i said, and i truly believe this, she was not just the greatest woman of the 20th century, she was the greatest woman of the second millennium. writing the "the feminine mystique" and being the founder of now, the driving force, the strategist, betty is the one who did it. i know there are a lot of people who resented a number of things she did and we will hear about some of those today, but we all know that betty was the founder and we have got to keep her memory alive. incidentally the name now came about because at that luncheon, betty friedan wrote on a napkin, national organization for women and she stressed it was for women, not of women because we were going to have men active and we have had wonderful men that have been active through the years. anyway, during that summer when everyone went back having put in their five dollars, they all organized their people, kathryn clarenbach. betty friedan looked at her rolodex and sent out a couple hundred letters and i was on the rolodex because in 1963 i had arranged for her to speak to american women in radio and television when her book, "the feminine mystique" came out. when mary jean talks about the term an naacp for women, i asked betty, don't we need in organization? and she said, you mean an naacp for women? we are not ready yet. in 1966 we were ready. i received her letter and incidentally she said, we will be an elite cadre of women. she did not think about a mass movement. that just happened. we were all professionals who were successful with education and government and labor and business and it was sort of the typical elite cadre that founded many organizations. the one person i also want to mention in addition to pauline murray. it was pauline murray and mary eastwood who kept after betty to start this organization. also kathryn east who was sort of our deep throat. she worked for the labor bureau and she kept feeding statistics on how terrible it was for women and she kept feeding those two betty. it was mary eastwood. i am not the only living founder. mary eastwood is living in wisconsin and i wish she were well enough to be here and be honored. then, at our founding conference, which was organized for october 29th and 30th in the basement of the washington post hotel, the washington post newspaper, i guess we rented space from the washington post. mary eastland arranged for that space. during the summer, betty had asked me what i would do for -- would i do the publicity. i was in public relations and was the vice president of what was the largest public relations agency in the world at that time. so, i get the publicity and arranged for that famous picture that is in the book here of the founders. there were about 35 of us in that room. my press release said "more than 300 women and men" which was true because we were across the country. there were about 35 of us in that room and we said we founded in militant organization to have laws enforced on behalf of the quality. -- equality. the terminology was very much betty friedan's and i want to say, she also wrote a statement of purpose for now. you can get that on the now website and just be prepared to be so inspired. next in the "the feminine mystique" it is the greatest thing that betty ever wrote. it lists everything that is wrong with society, all of the discrimination problems and it also lists some statistics that katherine had given such that 7% of lawyers were women, 5% of doctors were women. it was all spelled out there. we made a few little changes, but it was betty's document and it is a beautiful document. it said what was wrong with society and what now is going to do to change it and now has changed it. there is no question. [applause] muriel: on the basis of the statement of purpose, we formed taskforces those two days on every one of the issues that are still important today. we had a task force, the biggest was on employment, jobs was always our number one issue. title vii of the civil rights act of 1964 had been passed which prohibited discrimination on the basis of sex and the equal employment opportunity commission treated that as trivial. they did not want to pay any attention to sex discrimination. they were much more interested in race discrimination. we had to press them to pay attention, actually more than half of the complaints they were getting were from women that were being discriminated against. we pressed that and had a task force, a big task force on employment. we had one on credit. we had one on childcare. that was an urgent issue for now from the very beginning and is probably still are most urgent, unfinished business. task force on religion. task force on every important issue was there, based in many ways on the statement of purpose. a big issue, and young women today do not believe there is, -- yes was that the help wanted , ads in the newspapers said "help wanted male, help wanted female." we had to work on that. we finally began to get some results at the end of 1968. we marched, picketed and had theuits, pressured government, especially the doc. mary jane mentioned joelle arlene. i have to tell a story. at our founding conference in washington, the sister heard that was going to be this conference on sex discrimination and she just walked in and out of the cold. no one invited her. she just walked in to the meeting because she heard it was going to take place and we went around the room and when she stood up, each of us introduced ourselves, she stood up and was still wearing her nun clothing. teacher, one of 50,000 american nuns and we are working women and we are oppressed. [applause] muriel: i will never forget that. and during that conference, in walked colleen boland, who was the president of the stewardess union, the flight attendants union and she told us about the , airlines requiring the flight attendants to retire when they reached the age of 32 and with some airlines 35, and this was an early case that now took on. again, very successfully. and, one other thing that i want to point out is that we worked on all of these cases, issued writs and knew what we were doing. that was one of the reasons why now was so successful, because we were professionals in everything we did. we immediately pressed the eeoc to work on sex discrimination , and we pressured president johnson, and i remember we met in the white house with john macy, who was his associate working on this and he said, you really want to be included in the other kinds of discrimination? don't you want separate attention to sex determination? -- discrimination? we said, no, it is the same thing. i wrote a letter with betty friedan's signature to president johnson, urging him to put sex discrimination into affirmative action, and one of the most historic events which was mainly a result of now was in october of 1967 when lyndon johnson announced executive order 11246 , which added women to affirmative action, and this opened the pipeline for millions of women across the country from then on. [applause] muriel: so, i think i have used up my time. >> no, you haven't. muriel: well there is just so , much that happened in so many people that have worked. everyone there worked on what made her angry, and that is why we were all successful. everybody was passionate, and then i remember it was in february of 1967, betty friedan said, i think we need chapters. so, will you start a new york chapter? so i sent out the postcards to those that were signed up in the new york area and the new york chapter was the first chapter of now, and all of the chapters , of course, really became the the grassroots and they made actions happen very quickly, amazingly quickly. sayy friedan and i used to we never dreamed it would happen so fast. really, in the 1970's we got the fair credit act which meant women could have credit cards in their own line. until then, a woman lost her credit card if she were to divorce or her husband died. the fair housing act, a landlord could say, i do not rent to women. that became illegal. title ix, which finally prohibited sex discrimination in education. it is a lot more than sports. it is a lot more with women's promotion, advancement in schools as well as colleges. all of these things happened in oneearly 1970's, and every was mainly the result of now activists. there is a lot we can be proud of. i will answer questions. i do not know how much time i have used up, but anyway, we can all be very proud of what now did. [applause] mary jean: thank you. [applause] mary jean: we are going to take questions at the end because otherwise we will never get past muriel. [laughter] mary jean: next i want to introduce eleanor pam who is the a women'sof organization that is presenting this panel along with the national organization for women. it is an organization founded by second wave feminists to keep the history alive and propagated of the achievements of the second wave women and the women that followed. and they are open to membership to everybody, so if you have a membership form in your packet, we would love to have you. i want to go back and introduce eleanor. she is the president of our organization now and she is herself a pioneer feminist and merita at the city university of new york. she cofounded the first education committee. she has focused on education issues and women in prison issues through her life and she gives us excellent leadership and we are proud to be a part of , being with her today. eleanor. [applause] eleanor: i want to talk about a second hero from the feminist movement. some people are technical and -- technicolor and some people are black and white, and betty friedan was definitely technical. kate millett, who has been a friend of mine for nearly 16 years, also in her own way made great strides in progress for women. she wrote the other book, sexual politics, which is known as the bible of the feminist movement. so you have "the feminine mystique" and you have "sexual politics." kate was also called the major oretician of- the the feminist movement. she was also called one of the 10 most important people in the 20th century. i knew her in a very, very different way, and by the way , it was said the world was asleep but kate millett woke it up. i met kate when i was just out of college with a degree in philosophy at brandeis university. and i did not want to go home after i graduated and live with my parents. my mother sort of thought i was a bit nefarious because i did not have an mrs degree. i only had a degree with honors in philosophy, not quite what she wanted. so i did a very unthinkable thing and i moved to greenwich village, and that was really wicked because my mother assumed i was up to no good. which ultimately, i was. [laughter] eleanor: i found a friend who was an artist and a dancer and she was chinese. and she had a very strange circle of friends. in the middle of the night, 3:00 in the morning, the phone, not the phone but the bell would ring and i remember this distinctly. i do not think i have lived with her for more than a week and i opened the door and there were these three grimy males standing there, filthy, with beards, and obviously not washed and were in rags. kerouac, and other beatniks. they made there's just themselves -- themselves at home and slept in the bathtub for three weeks. we finally kicked them out. another friend, another friend of my chinese roommate was this other strange woman. this was a female and she lived in the area and her name was kate millett. kate was very strange. she came from a middle-class family in minnesota, but she wanted to live in what i considered unbelievably squalid quarters. winos and derelicts sleeping on her front porch. i came to her house and i remember when i first met her, it startled me, with the ramshackle way she lived. she did not even have heat. she had a potbelly stove. she had wall-to-wall books, floor to ceiling. she did not even have a door on her bathroom. and she had just come from oxford, where she received first honors in english. that is an amazing feat. and kate and i became intellectual sparring partners. she was brilliant, obviously, eccentric, obviously. i worried about her all the time. she was very pale. she was very poor. and i would take her out and feed her and take her to the beach to kind of give her a little color. [laughter] eleanor: and i never, i did not understand her. why are you living like this? i was from the slums and i wanted upward mobility. she was embracing downward mobility. [laughter] eleanor: it was very strange to me. now kate identified herself as , an artist, not a writer. she was a far better writer than she was an artist. and she took me around to all of these groups. she loved groups and organizations, and ultimately, by the way, she said she would join every feminist organization and i believed her. because i was in the craziest places with her. atheists,, communists, whatever fringe group there was, that is what she was attracted to and that is where she took me to. spiritualists and so on. i thought, this woman is never going to get to age 23. she was 18 months older than i was. but so brilliant, so unusual. i thought she was an alien. and then, maybe, i was the alien and i was not sure. we both lived in our heads. we both had wonderful conversations. but she was real, rock-bottom poor. strange things begin to happen around kate. eventually she had an intellectual why didn't train. train.on people were moving into the bowery because they were attracted to her lifestyle somehow. [laughter] eleanor: i remember one of them, the first time i ever laid eyes on a woman named kate stimson who was fresh from sarah lawrence, and was wearing white gloves and a hat, a very elegant woman. she eventually became the head ,f the macarthur foundation genius awards. she moved right across the ,treet, and became a squatter just like kate. i did not get it. i just did not get it. i had a big salary. $4000 a year. kate that that was magnificent. to have some money, too. i recommended that maybe she should become a teacher. so, she goes up to harlem, and becomes a kindergarten teacher. and she did not last very long. [laughter] first of all, the children made to much noise, outlaw. second, -- thirdly, worst of all, she taught them how to read. the third grade teachers were outraged. they but that was in their curriculum, not kindergarten. so she got fired. kate actually got fired i think from every job she ever had. to japan.ent off i said, why are you going to japan? she said, i want to go on holiday. i said, you don't speak japanese. she said, that is not a problem. so she disappeared for two years. i went on my own grip. which was good if you're somebody who is a female. moved up very rapidly in the academic world. ultimately, i became a full professor and a dean, assistant to the president, director of special programs, i had more titles than anybody else in the world, head of the collective-bargaining unit. came back. she came back with a japanese boyfriend. urn of her dead wife's ashes, and yoko ono. and that became 1965, and they got married. and i remember looking at the doorbell, seeing her name, and another name, and i wondered why it wasn't -- i had no idea at the time, she was a precocious feminist. that the whole issue of keeping one's marital name separate, which is not even been on the horizon yet, was certainly in her brain. am, in his academic world. and, little to no women around me. only 1% of women in the university who were full professors. and i am an administrator. neat. of thought that was people said, you think like a man. i love that was a great cop just compliment. -- continent. i had all these guys who worked for me. i don't that was good. that was good. i would hire women at one rank lower than i hired the men. and i did that because a good. because that is what you did. and i was balancing the budget on the banks of these women. of these women. i was proud of that. i identified with the institution. i have not really, i do not have a vision that kate had. i was always one beat behind her. then something very strange started to happen. the women in the colleges began to come to me, because i had power, i had authority, i had connections. and they would tell me that they were being fired, or sexually harassed, we did not have a word for that at the time. for ay got passed up promotion that they deserved, or did not get tenure, were not getting appointed, or so forth. little by little, i became the go to person for every person in the university. peripateticmyself a person. there were 18 units at the university and i would call them up and i would demand a meeting, and i would try to fix the issue. later, if hit me that something really bad was going on. i talked the president into buying a private house right next to the college, and turned it into a women's resource center. i used that as a place where aople could come, and became legal advice center, the mortgage advice center, and so forth. eventually, it became headquarters of the subversive work i was doing on behalf of women. i funded the newsletter. we had meetings there. i was the one who had access. i was doing this on a small scale. large class a action against the university, gender discrimination on 12 counts. it's a many years to prosecute. took many years to prosecute. the largest of its kind to be successfully resolved. another,, one after all the issues that were developing. 1965, when kate married, i had my first encounter with betty friedan and. i was at a meeting, down here in washington. i saw this woman, surrounded by other people, and everybody listening very intently to her. bantam size, and very energetic. listening, and i asked, who is that? and somebody said, that is betty friedan and. "the feminine mystique" the hero to ago. -- a year or two ago. eventually kate settled in. she finally took me to a meeting. after all the other organizations. liked hinted at, she bars. one of her favorite bars was on university place in greenwich village. that was her neighborhood bar. we were rubbing elbows. i did not know who we were rubbing elbows with. jackson pollock. and so on. that was the way it went with kate. these are all not celebrities yet. so she takes me to this first meeting of the national organization of women. maybe 1967, 1968. where is ready for dan, at the head of the room -- betty friedan, at the head of the room. and there were people she was furious at. she was firing bullets at them like a machine gun. one of them was kate. and i was terrified. [laughter] eleanor: i shrank back in my -- my seat.ke, like, don't look at me. [laughter] eleanor: but one of the issues that was going on, was the lesbian issue. because in those front rows of people were women whose sexuality was problematic for them. aback, because i thought this was an organization devoted to fighting the oppression of women. why were we oppressing this group of women, especially the leader of the organization? they said this was as good as they got. were really trading punches up there, verbally. i had never seen such pyrotechnics, ever. when i listen closely, it was more than the issue of the gay thing. they were trading ideas. they were so brilliant, so mesmerizing, articulate. i was just absolutely and chanted. thought, this is an interesting organization. an interesting group of women. and i wonder where all this came about. ok. so i was in. murieltime, as suggested, we worked on issues that bothered you. health, sexuality, credit. abortion. whatever. , thereious committee were very few people in the organization, so the committees were like 1, 2, 3 people. not much. education, obviously, was the right thing for me. kate and i were in the education committee. i elected her president. she elected me vice president. that was it. anecdotala lot about things that we saw. things and lose, shops and economics classes. mother tried to put me into secretarial slots, instead of college. encouragede differently. i was expected to be a secretary. brothers whot my did not get to college. so, these were all first-hand things. out of that, those thatrsations, came a sheet kate delivered. out of that came something now published, token learning. the very first thing she published. it, i watchedered her trembling from head to toe. she was terrified as she delivered this brief called token learning. kate.as she was very brave. but also terrified. kate doing hero dissertation at columbia. which turned into a published dissertation called sexual politics. she had a job at the time with columbia. as an instructor, one of our jobs. course, those students rioted, and she joined the students, and of course, she got fired. along with the fact that she was gay did not help. .o, that was my friend and when it was published, she insisted, she insisted that the atlication party yet -- be cbgb, next door to where she lived at the bowery. and the guy to take pictures was besides himself. said, i have nobody i can photograph that looks respectable. they are wearing beads, feathers, dangles. they look like indians, like cowboys. who is what.now you were there, barbara. i remember her instantly sitting, saying, my boss is going to kill me. picture. take a i better speed this up a little. i am really over my time. published sexual politics. she made a little money out of that. with it, she bought a farm. the rest of it, she used to give to prostitutes because her second book was the prosecution papers, and the irs wanted to know what about the taxes on those royalties. and she said, what? and she called me, and said, help. to, i have many years of relationships, so i will not do that, i will take you to 1970, the march down fifth avenue, where my friend --e stood up at the mike microphone, looking at this sea of people. one of the most thrilling expenses of my own life. this person i bought was a total loser would not amount to anything on the cover of time magazine. looks at the group, and she says, now we are a movement. and then we were. >> thank you very much. now it is my pleasure to introduce barbara love. barbara love is a lesbian feminist. she was active in the early days of n.o.w. and for years following. she was a coauthor with a book that put lesbianism sort of on the american agenda called -- was a right on woman. and she is, as i said, continues to be active and is also the editor of the book that was produced by veteran -- of america -- feminists who changed america. >> some of you are probably in it because you're probably some of the feminists that changed america. this was a magnificent product, with the help of other folks and the book is published. there is a cd that's also of the book that can be purchased at the table, but i just want to say, this is a monumental piece of work that actually has a philosophy, which i want to mention, because it's part of what vfa is trying to do and that is, to not just raise up the betty friedans and the kate milletts and the rest of us on familiesl, but to say that live in the cities and towns of our country and those women that work so hard over the last 50 years are the women who have produced the revolution. so that's our philosophy. that's what we're trying to do. we're going to go to north carolina next year to celebrate southern feminists, we have a meeting at 4:30 to talk about that with southern feminists. with that little advertising stuck in i'll take you back. this is barbara love. [applause] ms. love: i really want to start off by thanking muriel for everything she's done. feminists who changed america would not have happened without her leadership and support behind the scenes. absolutely brilliant. it was the second time she helped me and more than any other person in the woman's movement, she's been my supporter, which makes my discussions very difficult. the feminists who changed america includes as many feminists as we could find. there were 20 minute -- women who worked on it over six years, 2,550 feminists, biographies are in there. we went an extra year to get approval of their biographies. of course, everybody rewrote them a couple of times. some people as many as six or 10 times. it was a real labor of love. manyl of these people, so people came on-board, it took long time to find a publisher, went to 24 publishers before i found one and then i found two that would do it. i didn't even know who would publish it. i was just going to do it anyway. we were just going to go ahead with it. we were just moving along and then finally we found the right people. i'm very proud of that. that was all inclusive. i think it was an important book because so many people -- their biographies will not be known because it includes the music people, poets, the publishers, the sports people, all of these people contributed to the movement. it was not just activists. i'm very proud of this and the work that so many people did and some people who are here including muriel, and heather booth and grace wells and many others. i want to move on to the other veryof my talk, which is painful, and i thought about not doing it many times and that's about the lesbian issue because i was very prominent about that whole battle, in the lesbian movement, particularly with n.o.w. this was a very divisive and explosive issue in the early days of n.o.w., and i'm glad i'm asked to talk at it but it's a rocky road. bumpy road to get to a good place, and happy ending, which it does have. but in the early days, and i want to put this in context, because our whole society was not embracing lesbians, and i was not either. at the time it was with the culture. we were -- i would say kept in the closet, judy clemens said we were kept in the closet like a demented child and it was hard. i joined n.o.w. in 1967. in the closet like others and it wasn't until 1969 that i heard the word lesbian mentioned ever. that was rita mae brown coming to a meeting in a see-through phi beta kappa cape. i invited her to my house and she came with flowers. she didn't know i wanted to be an activist. we were invited to a group gathering and we started a group that later became radical feminists, lesbians were always active in n.o.w., all during this period. and on all issues, and we were -- some of us knew each other, but we were in the closet. and this is very painful because -- i have to figure out like some people said, when you're talking about this lesbian issue, first, be true, which is what my mother told me, when as -- my mother told me when i told her i was a lesbian. in my own heart, i think, oh, my god, i'm going to be criticizing betty friedan, the leader of the movement that were so painful and hurtful that brought a lot of tears. but the time was, i've got to remember that this was when lesbians were illegal, we were sinful according to the churches, we were also, from the psychiatric point of view, still ill, psychiatrically ill. we were having our children taken away, lesbians. we were thrown out of our homes when they knew we were lesbians. we couldn't get jobs when it was known. we lost jobs when it was known. so we were doubly oppressed. the women's movement was a place where we felt safe. they were our issues and we were 100% committed to the movement. so it was very painful for us, to feel that we were not wanted, although i understand in retrospect, a lot about betty's feelings and she did say we were "hurting and exploiting" woman's movement. a lot of things i say i'll put in quotes because they are betty's words. i sort of made my name. i was never an officer of anything in n.o.w. i was a troublemaker on this issue. constantly confronting betty on this, and in november of 1969, at the new orleans executive committee meeting, i think betty called us lavender menace, which is what she thought we were, a menace. it was important always to confront her, when we could, because, the media always went to betty for comments about the women's movement and where we were at. and she was always talking about us in ways that i couldn't tolerate. so i would jump up and say something. and then, what happened in 1970, i welcome muriel's comments on some of this. we know where we disagree, but in 1970, i was a lesbian, running for re-election as president. and i had heard, i don't know how i heard it, i was reminded recently through a phone call, that i had telephoned her while she was working on the august 26 march, and told her, they are trying to get rid of you. i'll help you if i can, and she said, don't worry. there is nothing to worry about. i trust the membership. that's what she said. so we did nothing. at the election, there was another slate introduced, a big surprise. big surprise to us. i understand, there were people who did not want the lesbian issue to surface. that slate won by just a few -- there were a lot of people there that we had never seen before, who became members, and she was voted out of office along with her supporters, some straight, some gay. and it became known among lesbians and supporters as the lesbian purge. i know we talked about this, but it worked out around the country, very fast, the grapevine. the next thing i want to mention is out on the west coast there was a woman named -- well, before i get to that, that was later in 1970, that's when cape millett was on the cover of "time" magazine as the leader of the movement and at columbia, when somebody pressed her and said, wait a minute, you're married and you say you're a lesbian. what are you? she said, i'm bisexual. well, "time" magazine went with that she's bisexual. she'll no longer be recognized as the leader of the women's movement. can you believe that? so we had to confront that one, and have a meeting at a church down in the village, with the all the feminists that we could gather and she said, that's not true. this was december 16, 1970. and a lot of feminists came to her support including eileen hernandez who may be here, i don't know, she said it was sexual mccarthyism of the press to do that and she sent a telegram and that's when i came out and was on national tv as a lesbian. that's it, you know, i'm out. i didn't expect to be. i just said i was a lesbian and the press kind of liked that, i guess. they thought that was news and i think it was because there were two others also, who lost their jobs. i guess it was still news. anyway, in 1971, out on the west coast, arlie scott was working almost by herself, to get a resolution passed to recognize lesbians as feminists, and lesbianism as a feminist issue. this was in los angeles and i hate to say it, but the feminists and leadership and prominent lesbians out there were against it. this is hard to say. more pain in this. she got a lot of other people worked on it and got it passed. that was in may, and in the los angeles chapter. then, in the fall in los angeles national convention, 1971, thank god, lesbian issue, recognizing lesbianism as a feminist issue. and to great applause and muriel was supportive of that, which was great. even though you were a big supporter of betty, somehow i've got to figure this out because betty was saying these things but muriel was for this resolution. we like to think that was it and everything was cool. well, it really wasn't. the resolution even had a little -- some apology in it and said this does not mean now it will change its direction or its energies or anything, and will not work for lesbian rights, which, in the resolution did not ask for, but it stated clearly that it was not going to change anything because of this, but it did get standing applause, i understand. i was not there. and it did change a lot, but then, the next thing i want to skip to, is 1973. it was 1973, this is the hard part, one of the hard parts but it will tell you what we were up against. there were many tears because of this conflict and we were feminists and we thought betty had changed the world, but for us, it was terrible. -- this isn article 10 years after the book, 1973 "from the kitchen floor." and this -- this is the kind of thing that was the "new york times" magazine section. of course this is the thing that our friends, our colleagues, our families were reading and nobody was reading what we had to say. and she said in there, and this direct from the article and i'm going to -- i have the article here, anybody wants to see it. but she called us and this was two years after that resolution. that she called us -- let's see, proselytizers, man haters, infiltrators, pseudo radical infantilisms. she goes on. seducers. i can't finish two minutes. i get a little extra time. >> the workshop is over in 10 minutes. barbara: let me get on to this fairly quickly. she called us all of these things. and i felt we should have rebuttal. i got people at "the new york times" is together and we did have -- a lot of feminists came to that and we got back in a way to say what we wanted to say and people said that betty was severely myopic, a lesbian phobe, a dike baiter, a woman who has sold out, joan of arc friedan, conjurer of phantoms, a narcissist who had reached new heights of paranoia. the joe mccarthy of the women's movement. that was pretty rough but we had had it pretty rough. i just want you to know what we were up against. in 1973 in the fall, this was 1973 in march, a lot happened at the n.o.w. conference. we got our first lesbian caucus. we got a lesbian rights resolution. we had the first out lesbian on the national board, del martin and a sexuality task force. they would not call it a lesbian task force, it had to be sexual out -- sexuality and it had to be a straight woman that was with the lesbians to sort of balance that out. we were not infiltrators. we were definitely women 100% there for the movement. totally in there. we were not man haters. we didn't need men emotionally or financially. there was a t-shirt that i just love that some people wore called a woman without a man is like a fish without a bicycle. it wasn't important to us so we didn't hate men. we didn't care about them. and seducers. i heard rita may brown threatened to seduce the whole executive committee. did that happen, muriel? muriel: we never got seduced. barbara: that didn't happen. anyway, years later, betty in 1977, i'm wrapping up now, did support and talk to the lesbian resolution for lesbian rights. she had to make the point, though, that she had to do this because the e.r.a. was going to do nothing for homosexuals so it was ok for her to support lesbian rights and she did and that resolution passed in houston and to much applause and thunderous applause and balloons everywhere. she did come around and later we came around and i remember at a dinner for her, we gave her a big hug, i did and talked about what she had done for all the women and kate millett did too. we both spoke for her. so that is the end of that. [applause] >> thank you. >> we have about 10 minutes left in the workshop and we have -- we can be here the rest of the day and half the night with the number of topics we need to discuss so i'm going to -- i'm going to just ask -- open the floor -- >> can i have a little rebuttal? >> just a couple of points in which i differ with my good friend barbara. first of all, you have to differentiate between betty friedan who had her own ideas and passions and ways of expressing herself and now. betty, when she talked about the lavender menace, she was talking about people. so there is no question she thought that lesbians were a threat because they were going to try to change the direction of n.o.w. and it was going to talk more about sexual issues than employment issues, but as far as n.o.w. is concerned, i have to talk about that election. the so-called lesbian purge. that election was not at all about purging lesbians an we all -- and we all loved ivy bottini. it was an issues referendum on strategy. strictly strategy. does our chapter of that, which is the new york chapter, adopt lesbianism as an issue or do we delay for the time being for strategic reasons because we don't want to turn off the housewives. we don't want to direct attention away from our other issues, mostly employment and the other issues we were working on. it was strictly a vote on strategy. it was not at all personal. we still loved ivey. incidentally the person that had the slate that won was jacqi ceballos, who many of you know and she was a feminist too. as i say that was a vote about , strategy. not about the fact that ivey was a lesbian. that had no interest whatsoever. attacks later were different and i must say that now quickly debated the issue among itself, all the chapters and really within like a year and a half passed this resolution in september 1971 saying lesbianism is a feminist issue and that was the year i got elected chair of the board of n.o.w. so we debated. we argued about strategy, very heatedly, and we came to the conclusion, yes, it was a feminist issue. n.o.w. really came out for this much earlier than any other feminist organization. >> thank you. >> thank you. [applause] >> i think this demonstrates any of us who have been on the planet for a while understand how much the lesbian-gay issue has changed over the last 50 years since n.o.w. was founded. and let us say that the women on this panel and the women we're talking about and even those who took an opposite strategic position had something to do with making this happen. that's what we're celebrating today. [applause] >> now it is your turn. anybody have a question, comment? way in the back. >> would you comment on -- tell us a little bit about how n.o.w. ended up adopting the equal rights amendment as one of their key issues? >> well, we were both at the conference. you want to start? this was adopted in 1967. muriel: what was the question? mary: the e.r.a. muriel: at our first annual conference after our founding conference, we decided to -- betty friedan proposed in the women's bill of rights that we support the e.r.a. it was very divisive because the labor union women were still supporting protective labor laws that protected women and children and they had worked very hard, the labor unions, for these laws and were not ready yet to abandon them and of course if you want equal treatment then you can't have so-called protective laws which actually were protecting women out of most of the good jobs. so there was a battle in 1967 that was the same convention where we had a battle. should we make abortion a n.o.w. issue and again, it was the same bitter, heated battle. do we take up abortion or is it too early? and frankly i was one of those who thought it was too early, and was i wrong. because once n.o.w. supported abortion, members flooded into n.o.w. but i had thought it would turn people off. so these were issues that we fought about and but n.o.w. was always ahead of all the other organizations in the decisions that we made. mary: yes. yes. >> i came into n.o.w. in 1971 but i wasn't in new york. i was in the country in a much more rural area, not that it wasn't the biggest city in maine. [laughter] >> 60,000 people. but you know, i think that the issues were not as volatile in some areas of the field. we never had those fights or heated discussions in portland, maine. we just sort of well, oh, gee, ok. we just went ahead. it was clear to us that lesbian rights was a feminist issue and we just never thought much about it. my first national convention was in 1973 so i missed the original debate because i was still in maine trying to make equal pay. i didn't come out until 1976. it was like -- and with regard to one of the accusations, i mean in some ways anybody who has worked within n.o.w. and who is currently and has been a lesbian, there is a certain amount of recruitment that did happen, you know? in a nice kind of way. i fell in love in n.o.w. it is like these things happen. but they would have happened anywhere. it only had to do with proximity and the fact that i've always been grateful that i came out in the feminist movement because i never took the time to think there was something wrong with me because i really cared about and admired the women around me, some of whom were lesbians. so i didn't have to feel bad about myself ever. so that was a real gift that i got from my association and the women's movement was that i could be a good person, even if i happened to be a lesbian. for that, i'm very grateful. so i think that the struggles were slightly different outside of the big cities. that's my point. >> thanks, louis. >> i was on organizer in st. louis, missouri. we did fight between abortion rights and lesbian rights. i was given a paper written by lesbians about what i should say at the gay pride parade in 1979. i told them i couldn't say that. i said i'm not a lesbian. i'm a nice married lady from the suburbs and if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. that's what said but what i said back to them they said you never work on lesbian issues. i said i don't see an abortion clinic either. it was still pretty hostile. >> yes, back here. >> i do remember betty friedan and but i wanted to say in relation, there was comment early in the discussion about 7% of lawyers were women and 5% of physicians, engineers, there were very, very few women as well. but conversely, elementary school teachers probably better than 90%. i don't know if that has changed that much. nursing was 99% women. and the 1% of -- i was a young -- would become supervisors within months of graduating. i was a young nurse in those days but the men would be our supervisors within six months after they graduated. these were the kind of things, the changes -- i have a daughter who was a physician. when she went to medical school, she started having kids. she could tell stories about when she was in her second year of medical school and she occasional would be able to bring my grandson to school with her and there was no place for her to nurse him. except go to the bathroom. even in that situation. so when i think about all the changes and how all of us have done -- i just think you know, it's just great. we got a lot more to do. >> yes? >> can you talk a little bit about the impact that the consciousness raising groups had? >> well, the radical feminists seized upon this as an emotional issue, but it was the n.o.w. chapters that really that is the consciousness raising groups and spread it throughout the country and the truth is n.o.w. doesn't get as much credit for that as it deserves, but when it happened, in the middle of the 1970's, of course the idea that people would share the stories of their oppression, it just caught on immediately and helped people understand why they were in the movement. >> yes. >> i am currently a judge. i am not here for any political reason because i do not politically participate in politics. but i have something really sweet to tell. had finished a i case and the dad wanted to bring s intoo little girl the courtroom to meet the judge. i asked what they wanted to be. one said she was a firefighter. i said, when i was little girl, girls could not be firefighters. andlooked at me in shock said, no? i almost lost it. i had this emotional reaction. this is what we were about. this is what we have accomplished. little girls are now growing up with no bars. they grow up with dreams of being anything and everything they want to do and that's what they are doing and also as i see in family court and i have felt that this was really attributable to the women's movement that men are now free to be parents. men are now free to walk down the street carrying their kids around. men are now free to be parenting, which they could never do in those old rules. incidentally, i then said to the little girl because this was back in 2008. i then said to her now girl consist do anything they want to do. they can even run for president. she turns and looks at her dad and says i know because he voted for her. [applause] >> very good. very good. and she might be old enough to vote this year. who knows? >> my name is marcy simms. it is great to be here. in reflection over the 50 years, so much has changed. so many wonderful points of light. of progress. and i'm just curious in looking at the arc of the last 50 years, if there had been an e.r.a., what was it about that time? i'm presently involved with the e.r.a. coalition. we know it didn't pass and we know that so many of the issues that we're talking about right now in this presidential campaign have to do with many of the issues that would have been addressed over the course of the last many years through the court system if there were an e.r.a., if women were recognized by the founding document in the land. what advice would you give today? how would you strategize today to finish the business of the constitution? >> i think there is actually a couple of workshops that are going to talk about that. i can talk took into account e.r.a. campaign because i was one of the in the last big battle in illinois in 1980 i was one of the leaders of that long list. lots of people worked on it. i reflected on it after we were unsuccessful in illinois and getting two other, three states at the end before the termination date of 1982 which at that point at least we figured was the end of the struggle but i want to say the -- and the second half of this workshop, which is tomorrow at 11:30, we're going to talk more from the perspective of how the august 26, 1970 made n.o.w. into a mass movement, n.o.w. and the women's movement into more of a mass movement. the impact on individual women, particularly in politics, i can remember women coming to go to the legislature in illinois and say they had never seen a state legislature before and they were in shock like that's it? and many of them became convinced. i think a lot of women in politics, all the efforts that have been made since the e.r.a. campaign that that actually catapulted women into the public spear in many ways. i think it had many, many practical -- they tried to pass everything so they didn't have the e.r.a. they passed individual legislation. a lot of that was done. it doesn't change the fact that we don't have standing in the u.s. constitution and there needs to be. there needs to be -- you know, we need to address that. i don't have an actual answer to your question. i hope that some strategies will be discussed in the workshops here and an effort will be made to go forward. let's honor the e.r.a. as a 10-year struggle that women conducted that advanced our cause very monumentally in a lot of ways. let's be thankful for that today too. [applause] >> i just wanted to make a point in the time that i was -- when the e.r.a. failed, one of the legislatures who was a friend of mine who happened to be african-american, said that mayor daley paid the black legislatures to vote against it in illinois. that was one of the key reasons it failed. this was on pbs a long time ago where he was interviewed and then it was taken off like many of the documentaries that have "disappeared." i would hope some of the younger feminists could look into that issue because unfortunately politics is very corrupt. >> it wasn't too much of a secret. mayor daley's son was voting against e.r.a. once we noticed that we figured maybe he wasn't on our side. and the bishops didn't want it either. >> they told me he paid them off. >> i just want to ask, muriel, you said betty friedan originally in the original letter said these were the elite professional women but you said betty is the one who said we need chapters across the country. can you just talk to that switch that she did and how that happened? >> she quickly realized as this groundswell, lots and lots of publicity, we were on the front page of major newspapers across the country and there were just a groundswell and betty quickly realized, yes, we were a mass movement. can i just tell a quick story in response to what you said. donna shalala who was in president bill clinton's cabinet as secretary of health, education and welfare tells the story of the boy and the girl playing doctor and the girl says to the little boy, let's play doctor. you be the doctor and i'll be the secretary of health, education and welfare. >> i love it. i love it. [laughter] >> i think we're coming to the -- i think we're out of time. i want to do -- i'm just going to take a personal privilege and do this even though this is a room full of fantastic women. i want to point out heather booth, who is -- was -- we're celebrating now but this period of the women's liberation movement, heather booth was in chicago. we go back all that time. she was the head of jane. any of you know about that abortion movement. heather, please stand for a minute. [applause] >> women's liberation. 1970. this was the mass movement we had waited for. i almost couldn't even imagine and the key lesson, there are so many lessons out of it. also i feel so inspired about hearing dear friends speak about this history that we now are learning again and have to learn and pass on. but a key lesson i feel from this is that this is so precious, this fight for equality, this gaining of equality and freedom and justice, but it only happens if we organize, not just talking to everyone, not just even celebrating what we have done but organizing right now. someone else said they are not here for politics, but politics is also part of our life. it is a very close election. you need to organize. talk to those who are not committed yet. i appreciate your help. you changed my life. mary, muriel, barbara, eleanor. [applause] >> thank you all for being here. it has been a pleasure to be with you. if you can come tomorrow afternoon, please do that and for the second half of this workshop and thank you for all that you have done in your n.o.w. chapters across america. thank you. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> coming up this weekend on american history tv on c-span3, tonight at 8:00 eastern, a look at the confederate civil war prison at andersonville. the professor talks about the 13,000 soldiers who died and the postwar trial of its commander, henry worth. by 1860 4, 5000 men died between august and october 1864, i believe. 13,000 union soldiers died in andersonville. that's a death rate of about 45% of the total population. extremely high. 9:00, brent glass, director emeritus of the smithsonian museum of history, 50 historic sites," and u.s. supreme court justice stephen breyer on civil liberties. justice breyer: many, many years, i think the view of judges here as well as judges abroad were when you have security needs like a war or a real security problem and you look at the document, the document says this power is primarily be president's -- the president's. what about civil liberties? sometimes there is a clash. i believe in cicero. he was not one of the founders. [laughter] justice breyer: but they did know about this a row. >> on road to the white house rewind, the democratic party kennedy, and president nixon receiving the republican nomination. i predict billions of democrats will join us, not deserting their party, but because their party deserted them in los angeles two weeks ago. >> all over the nation, young men are coming to power. men not bound by the traditions of the past. men not lighted by the old fears -- of the past. >> for the complete schedule, go to www.c-span.org. "q&a," sunday night on gene edward smith on his w.tical biography of george b >> one of bush'sush. w. bush. >> one of bush's greatest fault is he is a born again christian who brings that ideology into the presidency. president xi rock of france and during the course of that conversation he told president chirac we were fighting gog and magog. that is the center of the universe for many evangelicals and fundamentalist christians, genuinely believed that. he genuinely believed he was god's agent on earth to fight evil. &a."hursday on c-span's "q engerman talksid about the cold war competition for better relations with india. event was hosted by the society for historians of american foreign relations. it's about 15 minutes. >> good afternoon. i would like to welcome you here today. i can say on behalf of the entire council we are so thrilled to see you. we are inspired by the energy