Briefed lawmakers on a Pilot Shortage affecting all four of the services. This House Armed Services subcommittee hearing runs about an hour 1 2. And a half. Comes to order. I want to welcome everyone to the hear on the shortage of pilots in military services. Today well hear from the services on their progress towards increasing the retention of military pilots both officers and warrant officers. We know pilot demands are increasing in the commercial sector and the demand to hire qualified military pilot is this higher than the available pool of candidates. With the problem being particularly acute in the United States air force. With the deficit at one point of over 1,000 total pilots. We are here to hear from the Armed Services on their plan. We know we cannot buy our way out of the problem since the military does not compete with the potential salary and some cases of the lifestyle of commercial airlines. So we must make sure the services are using all the levers in their control. From an increase in bonuses to changes in the assignment system to changes in promotion to incentives, these pilots to incentivize these pilots to remain in the military. The military subcommittee will review and discuss the way forward to stop the outflow of military pilots. I look forward to hearing from the witnesses to understand the retention problem and to assess the proposed resolutions for the services and increasing retention. Before i introduce our panel, let me offer Ranking Member spear an opportunity to make opening remarks. Chairman, thank you and thank you to our witnesses who are here today. The Armed Services committee has been receiving quite a bit of testimony over the last few months on the issue of readiness. There remains some debate on the severity of the ready new zeala zealand readiness crisis. The shortage of military pilots does, of course, have a direct impact on readiness, so the reaction to the shortage has typically been along the same veins to throw more money at the problem in the form of cash Retention Bonuses. But without addressing the root causes, this will do little to stem the departure of valuable experienced military pilots. As witnesses and several members of the subcommittee are well aware, our Service Members are not in it for the money. Military pilot serves for the love of country and the love of flying. There are many reasons besides money that military pilots leave the service for the private sector including family concerns and a desire for more stability too few flying hours and too many assigning task unrelated to flying. Today, im interested in hearing how each of the services working to identify the root causes and how you use that analysis and authorities that congress provided to better target non monetary incentives as well as monetary in order to increase retention. I am interested to hear joint initiatives of what you maybe taking under. It costs millions of dollars to produce just a single aviator. Im not telling you something you dont already know. We need to ensure we are thinking broadly and creatively about how to best retain the skilled aviator the nation needs. Thank you and i look forward to your testimony. Thank you, miss speire, well give each witness an opportunity to present his or her testimony and an opportunity to question the witnesses for five minutes. We remind the witnesses to summarize and the high point of your written testimony in five minutes or less. The written comments and statements will be made part of the hearing record. Let me welcome our panel. Lieutenant general lakist and vice admiral robert p. Birk. Lieutenant grossel. Major general eric c. Peterson. With that, general brilakis, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, chairman coffman. Distinguished members of the subcommittee i will be providing you an inventory overview. Since the first aviator flew in 1912 our pilots like all marines have answered all the nations call, faithfully serving the American People and maintaining firstclass standard of excellence. Today, we need critical support to combat operations. We operational commencement and tempo and challenging deployment dwelled ratios. While the marine corps does not have a shortage of Aviation Personnel we are experiencing a shortage of trained aviators particularly in specific platforms and gaps in the necessary qualifications over existing maintenance personnel. This is exacerbated by our Current Issues of aircrafts. Addressing this issue is one of mind. Aviation readiness in the form of ready basic aircraft and the resources to operate them is the single most important factor in alleviating our manpower challenges and contributing to retain. Our responsibility to train and retain the best aviators is imperative for us. We vigorously attack the retention of our aviation field. And doing so is particularly important due to the time and expense required to train these marines. Well closely look at the trend of our aviators and take action should we see retention problems so that your corps remains the most ready. Thank you for the opportunity to present this testimony. Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity to discuss this status of Naval Aviation retention. I am honored to represent the men and women of the United States navy. Aviation today is strong of the Maritime Air Force in the world and our deploy unit is ready to response to any challenge. Its made up of more than 190,000 military and Navy Civilian personnel including 10,250 naval pilots and flight officers who safely maintain, operate, and train with approximately 3700 aircraft and support a worldwide carrier based expedition neighbor missions to support combat operations. On any given day, two or five of our nine carrier air wings are deployed. We are prepared to deploy and our ability to sustain the effort depends on a number of factors among the most critical of which is our people. So im here today to outline the current risks of projected manning challenges facing Naval Aviation and what we must do to sustain peak combat readiness. Our able to attract our young men and women our nation have to offer is central to maintaining Aviation Personnel readiness. A number of factor making this challenge increasingly complex of low unemployment and increasing opportunities for employment in the private sector of the commercial Airline Industry. Additionally naval aviators have expressed a dissatisfaction of Quality Service. Which have inhibited a team of tactical qualifications and subsequent career progression. Those who wear the cloth of this nation do not do so of the money but rather to be part of something bigger than themselves. We have been able to positively influence retention behavior by providing a fair compensation package but more importantly we provide an enticement a few other employers can offer, a call to service. The allure of service is diminished. Today aviation depots struggle to get our airplanes through maintenance on time. These delay the time that pilots have to train for their deployment. Such challenges are further exacerbated by low stats of critical parts and aging shore infrastructure while our first team on deploy is always ready and our bench and the depth of our forces at home is growing increasingly frustrated and additionally operational tempo on certain deployment schedules, expressive administrative burdens and quality of life for sailors families including late permanent change of station orders and housing option especially in nonfleet concentration areas affect peoples decision to stay navy. Restoring short term readiness will require predictable funding which will allow our pilots flying the hours needed to maintain optimal efficiency. Ensure our ability to conduct timely maintenance on our airframes. It would enable the navy to restore parts and returning to aircraft operational status and better prepare them to remain deployed as required. And finally it would allow our pilots to the what they want do, which is to fly. Well continue to aggressively pursue resolution of aviator retention challenges through use of available resources and plans and refinements of plans and process for recruiting and addressing the Quality Service needs of our aviators. We welcome our assistance and looking forward to working with you. We appreciate your continued support for Initiative Design to help us achieve our optimal personnel readiness, and rain the best and brightest young men and women this nation has to offer. Thank you, i look forward to your questions. Thank you, general burke. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the status of the air force Pilot Shortages and our efforts to address it. Americas air force has been globally engaged for the last 26 years in combat operations. During that time, we provided air dominance through global vigilance, global reach and global power for our joint force. Make no mistake, your air force is always there. However, being always there comes at a cost to equipment, infrastructure and most importantly, our airmen. We are now at a decision point. Sustained global commitment and recent funding cuts affecting capacity and capabilities for a full spectrum fight against a near peer adversary. Upcoming surge of mandatory retirement of an increasing market of Global Commerce is causing civilian industry to begin hiring at unprecedented rates. This confluence of circumstances has birthed a national air crew crisis. It is a result of multiple factors. High operational tempo over 26 years. Demand for our pilots from the commercial industry and cultural issues which affect the quality of life for our service airmen. The total force including our active guard and reserve components were short 1,000 pilots across all mission areas. It should be noted that the cost to train a fifth generation Fighter Pilot to prepare him or her for their first operational quad are on is approximately 11 million. A 1200 fighter shortage is a 12 billion capital loss for the air force. Civilian Aviation Companies are recruiting the worldclass experience of our rated airmen. Out pacing our 2016 studies, Major Airlines hired more than 4,100 pilots last year and increased the salary of their pilot force by an average of 17 . These annual hiring levels are expected to continue for the next 10 to 15 years. Civilian job prospects are not the reasons that jobs are lost. The air force plans to address these shortfalls, reducing requirements, increase production and retention. The air forces plan ruses the forum of operation in order to maintenance and flying. We are leveraging our partners to staff and planning positions deployments and inPilot Training units as appropriate. The air force recognizes the need to increase pilot production and will expand undergraduate Pilot Training to Maximum Capacity at 1400 pilots a year. Future increases in flu put will require additional manpower and infrastructure operation and maintenance resources. From a retention perspective, the air force is improve the quality of life for our airmen. For example, we reduced additional duties and eliminated nonessential courses and outsourced select routine tasks just to name a few. All of these are to give back time to our aviators so they can focus on flying. We are grateful of your support of the 30,000 bonus a year. We identify areas of greatest need to retain pilots and exchange commitment beyond their service commitment. The air force is committed to a holistic strategy to maintain our pilot inventory. While we aggressively pursue creative means to respond to demands on our pilots our focus will be on developing annage jill set of solutions. We appreciate your support as we address the competition for our talented aviators and move out on bold and innovative solutions. Thank you for your time on this important matter. I look forward to your questions. Thank you, general grosso. Thank you for your testimony. Major general peterson, youre recognized for five minutes. Chairman coffman. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss Airline AviationPilot Shortages and our mitigation strategy. Army aviation is an asymmetric advantage providing the reach, protection and lee falsity and understanding required to win. At the foundation or a highly trained Army Aviation professionals, the pilot component of our total Army Aviation consists of 14,000 rated aviators across the regular army, the Army National guard and the army reserve. Several years of sustained fiscal constraints have required the army to make difficult resorting choices. Out of necessity we prioritize short term readiness over longterm recruiting and training. We simply could not afford to train the number of new pilots we need to sustain a healthy force, a growing challenge that is masked by relatively healthy current aggregate strength. Specifically we have accumulated a shortage of 731 regular Army Aviation warrant officers across your group 2010 through 2017. We are temporarily sustaining acceptable aggregate pilot manning by relying on senior aviation warrant officers to fill junior positions over 25 of which are retirement eligible. We are addressing these challenges and well build longterm readiness through three lines of efforts. Retention, training throughput and of sessions. Retention of pilots is key of mitigating seven years of con strained training throughput. Overall army retention, is healthy, we have seen an increase of Army Aviation warrant officer attrition from 7 to 9 annually. Given growing commercial demand. We expect this trend to continue unless addressed. In anticipation we are formalizing targets that encourages pilots to continue and retaining those who achieve advance qualifications. Additionally, we are correcting the accumulated deficit in our training throughput by pulling resourcing our Flight School. Fully resourcing our Flight School is not a quick fix, it must be phased in for several years. It will require consistent funding at increased levels to be successful. We are increasing our aviation warrant officer sessions in concert with the increased throughput of our Pilot Training. Over the next three years we will increase our throughput by nearly 170 students annually. In umry we are addressing our pilot manning challenges. We currently have the sufficient authorities to inchment our pilot retention, training throughput and a sessions increase. However, sustained, protect addictable, ontime funding and relief from the budget control act are vital to any enduring solution that we attempt to apply. Mr. Chairman and Ranking Members and distinguish members of the committee, thank you for your enduring support of our army and your shared commitment to our nations defense. Thank you, Major General peterson. I wish to thank not yet. So let me, if we look at the biggest reasons on the demand side of this equation, i think there are two factors and i dont know which one is dominant. One factor is youve got an aging population of pilots on the Civil Aviation side and that might have been aggravated by the fact that they increased the retirement age for pilots and now were hitting that increased retirement age so we are seeing significant retirement. A significant part of demand side, too, i would think is that in response to an aviation, i am trying to remember which year it was, i think it was in new york state, 2012, the reaction to that was to plus up the number of hours required. I believe 1500 flight hours for civilian and airlines faa retirement. And so quickest way to get there, is to look at the military because thats very hard to get on the civilian side. And so and i dont know if if the faa needs to revisit that number, if that was an overreaction to that accident or not. But, that does seem excessive, so thats on the demand side. And then so on the supply side, i believe that i know Lieutenant General grosso, you briefed me on a Retention Bonus structure that you want to put forward. You want to tell the subcommittee about that . Before we do let me preface it by saying i think within the Defense Authorization act there needs to be a reevaluation of that number on an annual basis that will adjust accordingly. This is the situation the situation is not going to last forever. Its a demand and supply curve and eventually the demand is going to be sateuated at some level. Sir, you are correct. In accordance with the guidance we came up with a Business Model to understand where our greatest need was. This model is the model that we use to give across air force which is about manning is but it has four factors, manning, retention and replacement time. Manning is weighted at 40 , retention at 40 , replacement cost at 10 and replacement time at 10 . You put all of these numbers together and you get a ranked ordering and based on the increase in the bonus which you gave us in the 17 nda as well, we looked at the greatest need and we stair stepped it down to match the weapon systems that were most in need in accordance with your direction. And we will do this every single year. So the program we come out with this year could look different than the program next year. To your point, the environment may change and the people that choose to come and go will change. Is the bonus structure the same across the board . Do you mirror the air force or or do you all have your own structure that youre looking at . Sir, thank you. And thank you to the congress for the authorities and the ndaa. Since 2011 the marine corps has not paid a Retention Bonus to pilots. First our inventories were solid and attrition was not a challenge. What we did is we came down from 202,000 and weve arrived at 182,000. In doing that and leveraging all the authorities that you gave us, the priority was to reduce numbers of marines. We saw an unequal reduction and our retention which ideally of 91 for aviators or in the officer community fell down to 86 and 87 . We lost some aviators. We made that up in a session. Our challenge right now is i have got 500 officers still in the Training Pipeline more than i need. Okay. Good. This year because of in addition to reducing the size of the force we are introducing new type Model Service into the inventory. F35 and the mb22 and et cetera. Camelot is Going Forward requesting of the secretary of the navy and authority to pay a Retention Bonus in three communities. F35, f18 because the legacy platform are the most challenged platforms right now. And b22. F35 and b22 are the most growing communities. We dont want to be caught short in those communities. Were a bit imbalanced. We got more majors than and lieutenants that are preferred. And so we want to make sure we have the opportunity to leverage to maintain those young officers as they come out of their required commitment to us and capture them for that extra bit of time before we got them by the thank you, general. Miss speire, you are now recognized. Thank you. Thank you all for your service to our country. General grosso, the 35,000 bonus, im presuming thats not going to be a check thats presented to the airman on day one . That is correct, man, aviators in the air force have a tenyear Pilot Service commitment. That is when they graduate from undergraduate Pilot Training. That training takes a year and after that year, they have a ten year commitment so it is typically of the 11th year of service that an airman would be offered some form of bonus should we need it. Is the 35,000 given in a lump sum or given in per year based on the number of years that aviators continue to serve. So it can be a range of options and every year we look at this differently. This year were proposing to offer contracts for a year, two years, nine years, or 13 years and you can take some of that up front and some oft will be anniversary payments. So no one aviator is going to get a 35,000 check or will they . If they took it for a year. Yes, man, they would. And they would owe us an additional year of active duty service commitment. Conceivable an aviator would stay two years and get a 35,000 bonus at day one. What happens if they decide to just quit . Do you claw that back . Yes, maam. You must recoup. The thinking on the one year is because of the work that were doing on the culture piece. Those things take time. We have to build trust with our airman. After significant long periods of conflict where we took your eye off the ball a little bit we talked about putting resources back in the squadron. One of our chief goals is to revitalize our squadron but that is going to take time. They are giving us a year. So theyre going to take a year and see if we really mean what we say about quality of life and quality of service. That gives them a chance to relook and take it in another year, hey, are we doing better and is my family in a good place and did you do what you said you are going to do. And next year well look at the environment. Well look at what our retention patterns look like. Okay, i particularly wanted to talk about nonmonetary inducements. And i noted that in the report, there was a reference made to 260 days away during deployment for some of these aviators and 110 days away even when you are on home temp rare duty. Those are long stretches away. And in your actual statement, general grosso, theres a chart here that shows, actually the ranking of the rule of civilian jobs is much lower than additional duties which was at 37 and maintaining Work Life Balance and meeting family commitments which was at 31 . Ability of civilian jobs was at 24 . So i think the lure of commercial airline jobs while it does have some allure, i think addressing those top two would be significant so to each of you, i would like to ask the question in a minute and 36. What if anything you are doing to trying to address the nonmonetary issues. Thank you. Member speire. We did a survey 18 months ago talking to our enlisted force and our officers on those issues that are most important to them. Flying hours are the number one concern. They want more time in the cockpit and more time in the back. Number two, the parts available to get those aircraft up so they could that flying. The third issue which is the most concern to them was the cycle. The tight cycle, as you know, the marine corps is on a one to two ratio on deployment to dwell. One, they want more time to fly, they want more parts to fix and theyd like a little bit more time at home. Okay. Admiral burke . Yes, man, similar to the marine corps. Flying time first, they are getting plenty while theyre deployed. Our deployment lengths ramped up considerably as our force size went down over the course of 15 years while the number of ships at sea on any given day remains the same. Thats starting to come under control now. The things like pcs move, lead times shrank down as we used pcs funding as a means of making our topline budget come in within under control so families were getting a month, month and a half of lead time to move in the summer, going to nonfleet concentration areas where it was difficult to find housing and things of that nature. And then just other sort of normal quality of Service Types of things and administrative distractions and career flexibility. Weve really been using the tremendous flexibility that you gave us with the Career Intermission Program to good effect, particularly in the aviation community. Weve had 13 aviators in it, nine have come through it. Okay, my time is expired. We had a female of one of our top young helicopters pilots that would have gotten out. We were able to convince her to take advantage of the Career Intermission Program. So she could get out. She was married to a naval aviator as well. She got out started a family and just finished her intermission, came back in, did her department had tour and did absolutely fen f few phenomenally. Another Success Story there. Things like that we have to add flexibility while our soldiers are out at the cockpit and coming back in and entering back to life and being competitive of their careers. Maam, maybe you can fold our answers into responses. Ill come back to that. Miss russell, you are recognized for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And i appreciate all the things that you do. A couple of the questions, bonus question time. How much does American Airlines offer bonuses up to for pilots, for regional pilots. Bueller . Anyone . About 35,000. Interesting figure. And so, you know, once again we go into this chasing around the 35,000 of some astronomical figures. When the reality is, thats competitive to what the airlines are providing to very junior pilots in the course of their careers. And you know, the phrase that comes to mind is nothing is too good for the troops and nothing is what they get. So applaud you, general grosso for putting together the proposals for the bonuses. They do retain. And because of your extensive background, you are very unique pilot with a very unique background. If you dont have the types of pilots in our special ops aviation community, what impact does that have on the missions that our rangers and our special Operation Forces do that we so heavily rely on in most of our missions . Can you speak to that a little bit . Without the retention of hands selected and highly trand aviation commanders, pilots and air mission commanders, one, we would not be able to accomplish the complex missions in support of. Elite soft Ground Forces that our nation asks us to do. The physical skills, the planning ability, the judgment and the leadership would not be present. We would not have the ability to accumulate and grow that and supporting the mission that they asked for. Further we would not be able to sustain those capabilities over time. Those same leaders that are selected and retained at some cost and investment are also the mentors and teachers for the nextgeneration. So they serve to accomplish their missions today, but they also grow the nextgeneration that our nation will rely upon. I can tell you from my own experiences even without combat helicopters, we would have less opportunities to get to a location. And without the paratroopers, even any number of things. This Pilot Shortage goes beyond just having someone with the flight suit standing next to a plane with a cool picture. It is literally everything that our military relies on no matter what the capacity is. You talk about the aging of the warrant population and even a w4. What are they making . 60,000 a year . I am not sure what it would be today. Anybody have an idea of what it would be . Closer to 80,000. Okay. So 80,000. And yet it takes 11 million to train a pilot to their first combat mission. Im not a mathematics major or a rocket scientist. 11 million or 35,000, retaining them for a couple more years or not . It seems like a good investment because when we dont do it, much like the cliff that we had with our air Traffic Controllers in the 1980s when president reagan said fine, you want to protest, well hire a bunch of new ones. And they did. But then they all left in one shot. 25 of the pilot force is just in the army. Not only are you losing your most experienced warriors as they go out of the service. But you dont readily replace them. We have to fix the problem. We cant ignore it. We cant say hey well give you some busted up, you know, army Relief Service furniture in your quarters and that will be a good incentive for you, we have to do better. With that, i am out of time and thank you mr. Chairman. This is really for all the witnesses. So better data is obviously critical in shaping the response to the emerging Pilot Shortage we have in the military. Have we taken a survey to understand the pilot attitudes whether its across the services or within each individual mos or whatever it is called on the officer level and does it drive the decisions to renew their commitments to serve or pursue other careers with commercial airlines or outside the military altogether . Well start left to right. As i said earlier, about 18 months ago we pursued a survey to look at officer and enlisted attitudes and got good information from that. We are working on a longitudal set of surveys to cover marines from their first enlistment through a 30year career that allows us to take a look at tuesdays and retention and separation, et cetera. So we believe that will provide us better information into the future. The specific targeted survey that we did gave us really great feed back. Its not about money. Its not necessarily about jobs. It is about doing what they came to the marine corps to do which is fly airplanes, fix airplanes and serve those aircrafts. On the officers side, are challenges. Its the number of ready aircraft. It is been an issue and we work hard to it. And getting those pilots the hours per month thats necessarily. It is a satisfaction thats seeing an aircraft you are responsible for actually take off loaded with bombs to go do the mission. So those are the things that were working on as well. On the enlisted side we do bonus for retention but we are also looking to capture experience to retain it in the squadrons and thats another initiative that were bringing forward this year. But youre right that is important and we have specific data right now but we are working on having better data for the future. Sir, we do the exact same approach from the navy looking at everything from things that will inform our entire portfolio of sailor 2025 efforts which is aimed at everything under the nonmonetary aspect of things from detailing and assignments processes to evaluations and fitness reports to promotion boards and promotion policies all the way down to you know, our physical fitness programs and health and wellness things. But in addition to looking at all that data and our Family Services and spousal employment and all those sorts of aspects i mean we have a very good pulse on exactly where we stand on retention at our critical points. We target our Retention Bonuses for naval aviators at two critical points which is Department Head and then at the post command level after theyve had 05 or commander command. And we vary the rate at which we pay the bonuses by the type, model and series of aircraft and thats largely a reflection of what their opportunities, how their job skills might translate into the outside job markets. And we know exactly how many have committed because the contract lengths are designed to obligate them through that critical career milestone. So we have a good indicator of how many we have committed and we talk to them almost on a weekly basis. How many are on the fence, how many are likely to say yes, and how many are definitely going the say no. We keep a pulse of that all the time and that helps inform our force management if that answers your question. We do, sir, there is a survey in the written statement that goes to the entire force every other year and that is the data that the Ranking Member pointed out. And we have exit survey. They have established a date of separation. That gives you more realtime thinking. And from our pilots, the data is about the same. Maintaining Work Life Balance is about 45 . Availability of civilian jobs is 28 . And if you think of an aviators over 12years in a one to three dwell they are committing 180 days. And they go on tdy a lot to get proficient again. When you are look at their options, there is an incentive to get in to the civilian force early. I realize im out of time, but go ahead. So the way the civilian industry is structured its a first in move up system. As you are at the 12year point and looking back at a very busy life and things we need to do better they say should i get my line number, many affiliate in the reserve component so they can start that successful second career for their family. Thats why that 12year point is important from a civilian hiring. And we have data going back 30 years. As Airline Hiring goes up, retentions go down. We can correlate that. Mr. Chairman, i appreciate all four of you being here for subcommittee. Grateful to you. For those who are doing the bonus, do we know if it is a good return on investment . How do we know how many of those would have signed up any way to stay in . Do we have any data that shows does this bring in. Just curious, can we correlate the number of folks that take the bonus by percentage that said that that was the main reason why they stayed in . I cant correlate it that way. But i can tell you we did look. People who dont take the bonus, 96 separate. We do know the people who dont take the bonus separate and 2 3 go to the airlines. But theres no question you are paying some people to stay. I think all of us would agree, onethird, onethird, onethird. And because we investment so much money to make them we think the tradeoff is worth it. But were not sure how many who signed up would have stayed in anyway . You are correct. Similar situation for the navy. You just get to a point where for some individuals it could be economic rent. Exactly right. With respect to the army, sir, we are not applying the bonus to this point to our overall forces. We have used it as a targeted incentive and our special Operations Community only. And we feel like we have very good return on investment and trends with that very small population. But we are anticipating employing some of these incentives beginning in fy18. And i dont believe youre doing the bonus on the marine side . No, sir. Well offer a Retention Bonus in three communities, because thats where we believe we have some concerns. But to your point, statist statistically, analytically, theres not a lot of connection between paying a bonus and guaranteeing retention. It seems that we could get that data with a little bit of research and asking the right questions. Because it would help make the case better that this is a good investment. Just my thoughts. Thanks, mr. Chairman. I yield back. Thank you, mr. Chairman. By trade, im a physician. When i refer patients to a heart surgeon, i hope we always send them to the best. Because they actually hold a life in their hands. Much as your aviators do. The difference is they also hold a life in their hand while dodging bullets. So its a whole different dynamic on the level of our military aviators and our military personnel in all. The other aspect is, the intellectual Knowledge Base of an aviator thats been in service for 10 to 11 years is phenomenal. I would compare that to a top tier executive level in a company as ibm, one of the big ones, and when they give them bonuses, theyre not talking thousands, theyre talking millions to keep that intellectual property in place. Major general peterson, ill ask you the question first. How does a cr for the remainder of fiscal year 17 affect Pilot Shortage . The very straight simple terms, sir, it stops our initiatives to mitigate this. We will not be able to increase the throughput in our Flight School with respect to investments and additional instructor pilots, contract instructor pilots, contract maintenance, as well as sustained additional airframes for the school. So it will essentially defer this problem another year until we have the requisite funding that has been budgeted for by the army to implement these incentives. And then we will get closer to that cliff that we discussed about with the top heavy population, the disproportionate top heavy retirement eligible population. In 2018, what does that do for your readiness, general peterson . Ill start with you. In addition to exacerbating the pilot readiness challenge that we have, we will suffer readiness hurdles. With respect to airframe material readiness. Very significant and important modernization programs will either be halted or slowed to include the ch 47 block 2, the improved turbine engine program, the future vertical lift initiative and program. Probably most salient and important is that we will slow or defer very important protection and countermeasures initiatives that are under way right now. Other comments on the cr 17. How will it affect each of yalls services, if you dont mind going down the line. Sir, real quickly, very similar to general peterson. We wont be able to execute the bonuses that we like to. Our retention season actually begins in july. So that will be impacted. The funds that are available to do that wont be available. We will by the summertime have to basically idle 24 flying squadrons. Wow. And on top of that, with the lack of spares and repair parts, we are going to take a step backwards on the readiness efforts that weve done to bring back the number of ready basic aircraft that are available for our pilots to fly. Admiral burke . Sir, for the navy, we would be forced to reduce flight hours across all Naval Aviation, 15 to 20 reduction in fleet training squadrons. Those are the training squadrons. Onethird of our junior aviators would not be able complete basic qualifications. Squadrons Going Forward would be 20 to 30 undermanned. That would pay forward for several years. I would be forced to cut sessions by a thousand Going Forward in april. That would translate directly to gap debillets at c ashore and ultimately pilots, instructors, and aviation maintenance folks. And then there would be impacts to pcs fundings which would delay in issue orders, quality of service, quality of life as we discussed earlier. And then similar to what general brilakis laid out, we would have to stop bonus payments on most critical skills. So it would impact retention of, you know, experienced and specialized sailors including aviation officers and aviation maintenance rates. General, real quick. I echo, very much like the other services, it would have a devastating impact on our readiness and we would have to stop flying, which has all the other negative consequences of trying to keep these aviators in the force. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Just one comment, its my understanding that now its difficult not only to maintain just currency, but certainly to maintain readiness. And those are two different numbers of flight hours, i understand that, to be able to just fly the plane, but to be able to fly and fight are two completely separate and distinct issues. I thank you, mr. Chairman, for the indulgence. Dr. Wenstrup, youre recognized for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here today. Whats tougher right now, recruitment, initial recruitment, or retention . What do we have the most trouble with down the line . Sir, fortunately neither is a problem. Navy overall recruiting is good. We just made our 120th consecutive month of meeting our recruiting mission. Were seeing the beginnings of fraying at the edges. Overall retention is good, although were seeing individual specific areas such as aviation officers, nuclear rates, special operations forces, and information warfare, you know, cryptological rates, were having individual retention challenges there. Were able to manage those with the authorities we have right now. We have no issue recruiting talented people to be aviators. Our sole issue is retention. Were not retaining enough to sustain the force. We are not facing challenges with recruiting either. However, that recruiting pool is artificially restrained because of our throughput challenges due to tough fiscal decisions. We are seeing leading indicators of impending retention challenges based on the retirement eligibility of our force as well as the increasing commercial demand. Ill just say, i have another point of curiosity, i guess, youre getting exit information, exit surveys. On the exit survey, do you ask them why they joined to begin with . Or do you know that on entry . I imagine the entry reason is pretty much the same for everybody, to be honest with you, for many reasons. Wanting to serve, et cetera. But on their exit, do you ask them why they joined . Im just curious. Like what changed for them to want to leave. I commanded a recruiting force for a couple of years and we had the opportunity to watch that. Youre right, American Youth join the service in general for a number of predictable reasons. Each different service, again, some predictable reasons. Why they leave, sometimes its the opportunity to remain in the marine corps. We only retain about 27 of every years cohort because twothirds of our forces are in the operating forces and about onethird is in the supporting establishment. Its a young force, a fighting force. When i answer your question, i was talking about the aviation enterprise, aviation maintainers, et cetera. We have some retention issues in the cyber force, high demand, low density moss. Some of the reasons folks leave those is because there are opportunities on the outside. I can take a cyber marine getting paid maybe 55,000 a year. Hes leaving and picking up a job for about 190,000. Those are challenges that i dont think youre going to give us enough money to throw at those particular problems. Why they come and why they go have been pretty much standard across the board. The thing thats amazing right now is with the employment rate as low as it is, were still finding good people who want to serve. Thats good to hear, good americans. Im referring more to aviation than anything else. Admiral . I think a lot of people now you changed the question to be specific to aviation. They join for the adventure and to be part of something bigger than themselves. And i think they find that here, and theyre generally very happy with it. Why they leave, i mean, all the reasons we talked about earlier. But then theres the there is the family separation thing. We ask a lot of our folks. It is not for everyone. I guess a lot when they enter are younger, for one, and possibly single at the time. General . Yes, i agree, theyre at different points in their life. I think you make decisions depending on your situation 12 years later which is very different than when you joined. Right. Although i can presume that trends are probably the same. Im not aware of a specific question on our survey that would substantiate that. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Kelly, you are now recognized for five minutes. Thank you, mr. Chairman. General peterson, im going to start with you real quick, and talk about ari. And they asked about or they were going to get lakotas to modernize Pilot Training at ft. Rucker. The goal was to retire the older fleet and create a more relevant, safer, and more Cost Effective training. Could you update us on how the modernization of Pilot Training is progressing on the lakota trainer . Our modernization efforts are slowed a bit right now. Just partially due to fiscal decisions on our fielding plans for the lakota. As well as some ongoing litigation. The la cota is proving to be an exceptionally reliable and very beneficial trainer. It is too early to comprehensively substantiate the full benefit. What we do know is that the use of a more complex aircraft in initial Pilot Training, a twinengine aircraft with essentially a modern glass cockpit, is translating very well to the assimilation of skills in the combat aircraft that the initial entry aviators transition into for their subsequent training phases. Were looking forward to substantiating that and objectively documenting that as we get to the pure fleet. At this point we are roughly half and half with respect to the very early phases with our legacy fleet training aircraft and the lakota. And we talked about im not going to put you on the spot. The bottom line is there is a lawsuit that is slowing that down. That definitely has an impact on not Going Forward and replacing with something that has an impact on our training readiness, would that be correct, general peterson . It does. But we are compensating with the extension of the legacy aircraft which was proven in past years, sir. And this is i think im going to Lieutenant General grosso, one question that i have, the 35,000 bonus, it amazes me anyone questions it. After five years of service, when they go to the airlines, five years later, theyre probably at the airline making double what a u. S. Army major or u. S. Air force major or wo3 would be making at that point, would that be correct . The data we have right now is very quickly youll get to 160,000 a year. So probably. I havent really done the math but i think thats correct. And quite a bit. And thats not for the 20year guys. I know ive missed every bonus ive ever been offered because i was too old to get it and was in too long when it became critical. Those are the 11 and 12year people at that critical stage, that midlevel management, that is when that 35,000 applies, that critical point in their career; is that correct . That is correct. And this is for all three of yall, and i dont know if youve experienced it, theres some things you cant replicate. The ctcs in the military and the army or your red flags in the air force, are those things, but does anything replicate combat experience other than combat experience . I think its relative to the combat experience youve got. If youre doing low level counterinsurgency operations, youre getting a much better overall Training Experience at red flag or at the Fighter Weapons school or at wti. Its all high end stuff against simulated high threat iads. Combat is combat. And again, those things are great, and ive gone to many of those things, but it still doesnt replicate. And then the final i guess the final question that i would have is, its not just the flying experience that you lose. Its also that command experience, that leadership, that management. So a brandnew flight trainee coming out of Columbus Air Force base in my district does not have the same skills as that major who has been an Operations Officer for a squadron, would that be correct, Lieutenant General grosso . Yes, sir, it would. Taking out the flying side of that, you cant replicate that leadership experience at those critical levels, midlevel management, whether youre talking about maintenance or in the nco level, or warrant officers who are wo3s or majors or senior captains, you cant replicate that anywhere, can you . No, you cant. It takes ten years to make it. And if you get out, you cant get back in and start over at the same spot, can you . We do have programs to bring people back in but its challenging because we dont have the capacity to train them again. Thank you. I yield back, mr. Chairman. Thank you. Colonel mcsally, United States air force, retired, now recognized. Thanks, mr. Chairman, thanks for your testimony. I think youve talked about it to some level, some of the conversations ive had with some of the leadership in the services is about it not being a win lose and a finite pie, looking at this as a nation. Weve got requirements for our airlines, a good, strong, growing economy in our Airline Industry is good. Weve got requirements for our military. If were looking at this as a finite pie and win lose, in the end were not going to be able to compete with quality of life and resources, especially at a time when pilots are not flying because of sequestration, theyre doing more creep and more stuff that drives you crazy and impacting the family. What are you all thinking innovatively about turning this into a win win to partner with the airlines for individuals to be able to fly in the military and maybe have seasons of flying in the airlines and then come back for a threeyear tour later on and then go back to the airlines, as opposed to competing with each other . Maam, our chief is meeting with executives in the Airline Industry. Were looking at just that. Based on the Authorities Congress has already given us with the career and remission program, were going to see if we can get, to your point, a win win, and get some predictability for the airmen who want to start their line number early and get predictability for the air force. Were also starting to look at can we allow aviators to fly parttime on their own. Those are two ideas. I think theres many more ways to think about this for the nation to get a win win between the military and the private sector. I totally agree. And when you think about the bonus, people at the 12year point taking the bonus, in the past, maybe you get somebody inching towards the 13, 14. With the old retirement system, even if they didnt necessarily want to stay, they would start to make a decision, i might as well suck it up and get the 20 now. Not everybody is thinking about getting out at 18 as i did, most people as they get closer to 20. Are you concerned that not providing a hook, you know, to bridge them from, say, 1314 to 20 now, that they have the option to leave, is that do you think going to be a factor . We are concerned, we really dont know. We do a lot of force modelling and we know how the old retirement system pulls people, youre exactly right. We do have that continuation pay in the new retirement system. And that, the intent of that is to get people to 20. Were going to have to be very agile at executing that. Any other sources . I would just add, we thank you for the help in fy 17 in the aa that gave us the flexibility, the timing on that continuation. That was very important to us, because we see that as a component with existing retention tools that we have, because we you know, were going to probably have to modulate those other retention tools along with that continuation pay to influence retention behavior. Together we think well be able to influence the behavior that we need to get them to 20 and beyond. Great, thanks. I think, you know, the career intermission is a great first step in a direction of i just think in general the next generation wants to be able to move in and out of the workforce, get unique experience. I think we need to open up the revolving door. When you think about the millions it takes to get somebody to become a tenyear pilot how long does it take to replace a tenyear pilot, a joke, ten years. Maybe they went to start a business of their own or tried some other grass is always greener and they realize they miss the camaraderie, they miss the mission. I really urge you to look, its challenging to try and find these people, where are the experienced pilots that have left . Maybe theyre two, three, five, eight years out, doesnt matter. Retraining them with the experience theyve had and bringing them back even for just one assignment is worth the investment if you can find them. Are you doing any initiatives to go find those that are not in the airlines but working in many different sectors of the economy . We have a return to active duty program. Its got to be a short m. O. S. Were looking at the talent. Im not sure weve looked at people being way for six to eight years, you still have a pft to get past. I just think its that kind of innovation to be thinking of rather than saying, we have to produce more pilots and start at the beginning of the line again. Weve had conversations with industry as well, similar to what general grosso discussed. Were taking a look at the s. I. P. And seeing how we can fit that into a model that works for us. One of the items were looking at is more permeability between active and reserve components in the navy. Were nowhere near as permeable as the army and air force are. Weve brought a number of Airline Pilots now, they were formal Navy Aviators in, to help us stand up our remote pilot triton project down in jacksonville. And, you know, they wanted to stay. So we were able to help them out. So after having gone to the Airline Industry, they wanted to come back. So there is a little bit of that dynamic as well. Great, thanks. Im out of time. I appreciate it. Thank you, ms. Mcsally. Vice admiral burke, going back to this Retention Bonus structure, can you brief the subcommittee in terms of what you are looking at right now in terms of a bonus retention structure . Yes, sir. Our current structure right now, weve got two main points of concern. So our Department Head area is the most critical. And that applies for lieutenant commanders, that we pay by type model series or community, the type that theyre flying. Our most critical needs right now are electronic attack aircraft, strike fighters, and then helicopter mine countermeasures. Those folks are getting the top rates. And were paying them at current rate is 25,000 per year. And then depending on type model series other are less. And as soon theyre eligible for that after they finish their initial obligation, which is eight years after winging. So typical winging occurs define winging. Three years. You get your aviator wings at about the threeyear point after you finish Flight School. Okay. Its probably somewhere between 10 and 11 years of commission service, is when your active Duty Service Obligation is over. So you become eligible for this bonus. And this bonus now obligates them for five years, which takes them through a Department Head tour and all the way through. If for some reason they dont select for 04, they dont make it through their Department Head tour, we recoup. They dont get paid for that which they do not serve. So there is that aspect of it. Then we vary the rates. We put some economic factors in. We have some economic modelling that we base the rates on. Its not extremely sophisticated. Its the best that we have available to us. Were working to get much more Predictive Analytics behind it and make it more sophisticated as we go forward. Then we have our second critical zone is the post command level. So the first command opportunity is at the 05 or commander level in the navy. And then we ask them to obligate to which the post command level. There are numerous post command jobs on aircraft carriers such as, you know, the Operations Officers, the air bosses, things like that, that run critical operations on aircraft carriers. We need them to obligate, to stick around a little bit longer. And we structure that bonus to keep them at least through the window where they would make 06, the theory being once they make 06, theyll stick around a little bit longer. So thats a twoyear bonus at 18,000 per year. And both of those have had some positive effect. Were not getting exactly the response we want, so were going to tweak both of those this year, both in terms of the bands and the numbers a little bit. But dont expect to make full use of the legislative authority that youve given us. But were going to move them both a little bit up in each direction. One of the ideas that were looking at here is something that we did in the Surface WarfareCommunity Last year. We tied merit to the bonuses as well as need. And early look screeners for the next milestone. So in the case of aviators, if you screen early for Department Head, thats based on a look at your professional performance. The idea would be perhaps theyre eligible for the bonus earlier and could get extra payments for it. Theyre eligible for the bonus and get extra payments for it. Thereby youre securing a contract with the best talent sooner. So were looking at structuring something along those lines. Right now were paying for those two specific windows at a fraction of the available authority youve given us. Major general peterson, United States army, whats your approach in terms of Retention Bonuses Going Forward . Sir, were looking at two specific targeted windows at the outset. First is, at the cessation of their obligation for Flight School, which is the sixyear mark, that would be the first hook for multiyear commitments subsequent to that. Then at the retirement window, to retain that talent subsequently. Its too early for us to tell the impacts of the blended retirement and the opportunities that may pull that window left to that 15year mark. But we are looking for those leading indicators. And then last we are exploring warrant officer aviation incentives not tied to merit but tied to actual objective qualifications for advanced qualifications and skills, sir. Fair enough. Let me just say one thing to all the services, that i believe that this situation is temporary. This National Shortage of pilots. And my concern is what always seems to happen in government is theres a response to it, and somehow that theres a feeling that once that response is baked in, that its permanent. And i just want to stress that this is really a temporary solution to a temporary problem. And i fully expect that we will come up, that you will come up with dynamic measures that as this problem recedes, that these Retention Bonuses recede. Ms. Speier. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I would also like to point out that i had a friend who did over 30 years at United Airlines as a captain, and, you know, pilots talk. And the United Airlines retirement system went belly up. Instead of getting 150,000 a year in Retirement Benefits per year, it was reduced to Something Like 60,000. So thats something to remember too in terms of the solid nature of the retirement system that exists in the u. S. Government. So a couple of quick questions. I wont belabor any of this. General grosso, there was a time in the not so distant past when the air force was giving the same bonus out to all pilots regardless of whether there was a particular need and a particular specialty, so that a tanker pilot was getting the same bonus as a Fighter Pilot. Have you changed that now so that it reflects more in terms of what your need is . Yes, maam, we have. I can give you great detail when you have time. Okay. I was kind of alarmed when i heard in answer to one of my colleagues questions about the continuing resolution, that we would conceivably be in a position where we offered a bonus to an aviator and then because were doing a cr instead of an appropriation, that that bonus that we end up reneging on that bonus. Is that what happens . The challenge in the cr, if it wasnt authorized in the previous year, were not authorized to pay it. So if we had planned to pay a bonus in the fy 18 year time frame that we werent paying, remember, were going to be doing a bonus for the first time in six years. So its not in our 17 budget. It wasnt in our 16 budget. So it wont be available to us in this 17year budget. And the flexibility, well have to reprogram, well have to go for a specific reprogramming action to free you want dollars to be able to do that. But we now have a contract with this aviator to give him this bonus. And were reneging on it . Or are you saying were reprogramming . Were reprogramming that money. Its important not to renege on these bonuses, that would be a disaster in the making. I think it was you, general brilakis, who was talking about parts, was it not . Or was it you, admiral burke. I did, maam. I think we both did. Okay. Weve been focused on the pilots, but as you pointed out, if you dont have the parts to fix the planes, the pilot cant fly. And what are we doing about the mechanics . Is there a shortage of mechanics that we should be addressing as well . So for our part, on the enlisted maintainer side, our challenge is not necessarily the number, but its also the experience. Your aviation maintenance marine gets his basic training in his field. But on top of that, there are additional certifications. Because aircraft are so critical, and the fact is every time you go up, we want you to come down the same way, they have certifications that are required. Those certifications take time, upwards of a year or multiple years, to receive all the different certifications, so you can sign off on the maintenance. Our challenge has been, in the drawdown, the availability of those marines with those experiences, et cetera. On the enlisted side, while we do pay Retention Bonuses to manage the numbers, were also pursuing in the beginning of this next retention year what we call an op 4 kicker. An additional payment for marines who are willing to reenlist and then go in that fouryear reenlistment 24 months in the squadron, retaining those capabilities. Because more often than not, a marine who reenlists has a location option. He may want to go to recruiting duty or at the drill field because our marines serve across the marine corps. This will take the hard won experience at the Senior Sergeant staff nco level, retain in the squadron in certain numbers so they can train the next generation in those certification requirements. Thats new for us. Anyone else have any comments about mechanics . Were in good shape, mechanics. All right. Maam, we are short mechanics based on decisions made in the 14 president s budget. Were having no trouble bringing new airmen in, but obviously there will be an experience gap. We expect to be balanced in fy 19. Were reasonably strong with respect to our mechanics. However, we do have experience challenges that have been brought on by force Management Levels in recent years where mechanics have not displayed with their units and theyve been replaced by contractors. Were overcoming that now. But we will not regain that years of expedience. Mr. Chairman, i wont ask this last question, but i want everyone to think about it. Were not using aviators in the same way in all likelihood that weve used them in past wars. And with the advent of drones, i think we all have to think about the makeup of our forces in terms of the technological advances that have taken place and how we are going to engage in subsequent actions around the world. With that i yield back. Thank you, Ranking Member speier. Just a very quick point, major peterson, that entire issue with force Management Levels and leaving maintenance personnel behind so that we dont reach some artificial gap in afghanistan and use contractors in their stead is a horrible decision in my view and its something this subcommittee needs to revisit and make sure that it never occurs again. I wish to thank the witnesses for their testimony this afternoon. This has been very informative. There being no further business, this subcommittee stands adjourned. Cspans washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up thursday morning, former administrator for the centers for medicare and medicaid services, tom sculley, will discuss the decision by some states to expand medicaid following last weeks failed effort to repeal the Affordable Care act, as well as the future of health care in the u. S. Then democratic congressman john delaney of maryland will discuss his legislation, tying tax reform to new infrastructure planning. Watch cspans washington journal live at 7 00 a. M. Thursday morning to join the discussion. Then at 10 00, the Senate Intelligence committee looks into russias role in the november elections. Well hear from Cyber Security officials, and a former u. S. Intelligence officer for russia. Find our live coverage right here on cspan3. The president of the corporation for public broadcasting, patricia harrison, testified on the president s Budget Proposal for public broadcasting. The budget would defund the corporation, which funds 360 tv stations and over 1100 radio stations across the country. The House Appropriations subcommittee met for just over two hours. Good morning. Its my pleasure to welcome mrs. Harrison, my dear friend pat harrison. Ill reveal our sorted past to everybody in a moment