in the past these0, usually we vacate rooms and do something else. we are going to give you a little bit of a land map. i think it is appropriate. our speaker, our extra speaker this afternoon, is somebody who i have had some correspondence with. we both share an interest in petersburg, virginia. there was a fellow out from theigan who was challenging conventional wisdom of the events around the serious wounding of joshua chamberlain. the department of his story resources had identified the location where he was allegedly andded, a marker was put up it has been conventional wisdom that they have relayed the offense. aware that someone was challenging that. the department of historic services was looking into moving the historic marker. they were asking us to look at and comment on this. the department and i have to tell you after reading dennis 'thesis and i would have to agree with it. i asked him if he would like to come down, as kind of an extra talk in our symposium. our grouplike to tell about your research? he said he had his wife would be happy to come down. historian, he as a surgeon and michigan. he is involved with the civil war roundtable. he will tell you about how he in thisrested in this, small but important corner of his civil war history. the microphone is yours, thank you. dennis: thank you, i am a surgeon. i do not have a dozen books that i have written on my resume. i spend most of my time in the quiet of the operating room. was an unusual thing that i came to write a book about joshua chamberlain. i knew very little about petersburg, several years ago. this sort of fell into my lap unexpectedly. i'm with you tell you a little bit about how that happened or early version of this down thet was sent mississippi river with your speaker, he was very encouraging, then he invited me to come here to give a little talk. i agreed not knowing who this group of friends would be. it is sort of it and imposing situation for me. i am humbled by the opportunity. general joshua -- 1914.in, live from he was a civil war hero, i do not need to river -- three at to you. he is from the state of maine. he was a scholar and politician, as an administrator his primary claim to fame was his civil war experience i. i do not need to recite to you this great he became somewhat of a rock star. especially after the gettysburg movie came out. on june 18, 1864, if you know this particular area he was presiding over the railroad. lynchburg, the confederate capital was 25 miles north. war, it was the second-largest city in virginia. it was fortified by a 10 mile arc of artillery. they were constructed a year defended not were by leigh's army but bible regards army. it was captured in june 15, during the handoff between the potomac resulting in hundreds of casualties. how a surgeoner developed an interest in petersburg. after having grown up in an old house in pennsylvania, my grandfather built that house. i came across a dusty register in the attic. this along with a photograph of whoreat great grandfather was a corporal in the civil war. they laid in a cupboard for several years. wife and i3, my joined the civil war roundtable in southwest michigan. assignment was to read b bruce catton it revealed the ancestry of my great great-grandfather. i needed to learn more about petersburg. so, the cavalry had formed in 1863 after the battle of gettysburg. , he had a six-month to were enlisted for three more years. dismounted,omptly which was very disturbing. they then went to cold harbor, where they joined up with the army. was where my ancestors entered into the story of appomattox. months, the rest of the war, they were stationed in petersburg. i am her's myself in the history of petersburg. first book that i read. the 21st pennsylvania was inving in the second brigade the corps. on junet engagement was 18. they gave a very colorful description of their attack. happened when griffin moved to the attack, general was going to the right. chamberlain went to the left. stormed across the ridge separating the two branches of poor creek. the side by side linkage of these brigades also showed up in a primary source report that i came across. this man began his day controlling one company, then controlling the first grade after chamberlain was wounded. according to him, they were right north of the road. sweitzer, heon of himself was wounded. they had moved position towards dark. then was ordered to take command. leading thehad been charge of his regained, carrying the colors himself. p.eais then shot in the where it penetrated his urethra. gallant support, grant promoted him on the spot. it was not exactly on the spot, it was a day or two later. so joshua chamberlain, the hero of gettysburg, a civil war rockstar became a research vessel for me. my ancestor was at the cavalry with pennsylvania. turned to a discussion at fort hal. hell.t wasrding to her account, he stationed near fort sedgwick. they were assaulting the mock line. fortificationshe theng, but they were met by a-team. from the night before, they were fortified. this was an epic situation he was facing. had flownr statements in the face of what i had learned. she said he was a mile away by himself. to thiswhat happened side-by-side brig. as i continued to date deeper, i noticed that most biographers and even reporters on wikipedia were saying the wrong thing. they had recently placed a marker commemorating his on the spot promotion. i was faced with two competing north ofe had sweitzer the road. with chamberlain to his left, then area to with him a mile away. so, faced with this contradiction, i decided to barr.t ed not -- hist he had publisher said he had not embrace modern technology and i was not able to contact him. i was then able to make contact, he gave me everything i wanted to know. between the two branches of bridge creek, i thought i have found that when i walked the ground myself. diary aboutead in a buildings in the line of the march. if so, what were the implications. answers,not have the he knew who would it i immediately started getting emails from other historians and researchers. he started to give me a list of sources, that would be potentially relevant material. diaries, books, i was barraged with information about where i should look for information. at the same time, i met with , she is the archaeologist at williamsburg. . met her on a bus trip that is where i was looking at a farm, she had an interest in the subject. she started to send me maps and other resources. ted i have a friend, distantain who is a cousin. he was at appomattox , he introduced me to the joshua chamberlain biographer. all of these sources of information. the first order of business was these tales where originated. the source was joshua chamberlain himself. writing and speaking 35 years after the engagement. in 1900 he gave his interview to the newspaper, published as the hero of gettysburg. then in the passing, there was a paper published after his that that reiterated his claims. his biographer apparently picked say-so ande as his took it as gospel. mistaken, if he was the premise of my book is that he was mistaken. acknowledge events that happened in 18 93. , i'm not yearss or time enough to cool ones blood. it was very liable that there was a confused recollection of experience. assuregone there to himself of certain points of those fields. his last memory have probably left and clouded. he had good reason to be confused, after suffering a near mortal wound. ambulancebout an coming up and taking him to a hospital where he was laid out improvised from a barn door. at firstd not discovered the bullet, it was .ehind his left hip then with his pain war on to a stupor, he went to the first division hospital, they started to emulate the passage from his urethra to his latter. if this was that done, the world would have been fatal. multiple unsuccessful attempts, it was successful. that must have been dramatic. then he was transported by stretcher to eight other hospital. was taken to a hospital in indianapolis, where he suffered convulsions and chills, he had septic shock. perhaps the that is one of thettle least reliable chroniclers of the events. inability to revisit the even when wet have after the smoke cleared. it seemed to me that history repeats itself. i am not casting aspersions on anyone in this room. made by atement is source that is presumed to be liable, historians and biographers tend to pick it up. then it is established as fact. that is exactly what seems to have happened with chamberlain. intohistorical facts come a marker, it becomes almost incontrovertible. i was convinced that the marker had missed the mark. i was looking at information that could be more consistent. so, to set the scene we have to back up. after the end of the major fighting, general war and brigade.e his the attached three artillery batteries to the first division. had a command of six pennsylvania regiments or it he is usually associated with maine, but he commanded for pennsylvania. many of them were veteran units, one was larger than the other nine combined. they were newly recruited main citizens. one week later when general withdrawal ofthe the army from the potomac, he was at the front of the line. he was there to screen the theuation, as a result fifth division ended up being the last crossing the river on june 16. they began arriving the morning of june 17, they had four divisions, which were camped east of the fortifications. then on the morning of the 18th, general war in road out to his camp. he wanted to establish his new headquarters at the avery house. the eastern side had been taken by the union army. chamberlain had three mandates notune 18, although he did write an official report of his actions. he did write a letter to his commanding officer, to his commanding general that day. details untilic later in his life. i decided to study those. that i've been considered how he decided to implement what he was trying to achieve. so the first of this, he wanted to protect the artillery batteries. werefically those who attached to his division. said that our batteries need seems toly, the enemy be taking us by --. colonel chamberlain said they will not take them. wainwright commanded the our purposes he left a wealth of of information. it in his diary ended official reports. from his descriptions, weekend these together a image of the artillery. whichwere three batteries were in position at the back. phillips, stewart, richard, they were a part of the avery command center. batteries were 900 yards in front of the enemy's works. right hundred yards away from the rittenhouse. it was the division near baxter road that chamberlain was in charge of protecting. certainly there was no mandate for him to detach from the army and make it towards the jerusalem plank road. the next part section mandate was to dislodge and march on the confederate every north of the railroad. up and needed to have those batteries dislodged. we do not order it, we wish it. chamberlain testimony explained that the outpost had been left behind there in the confederate withdrawal. it was a deep, cut of the railroad. before undertaking this assignment, he decided to conduct a scouting expedition. it was notable that he was accompanied by the commander. route -- on clear clear ground and under observation by both parties. several he finds that the strange distance that he was concerned about was a deep railroad cut. descriptions there are several things that stand out or it first that the general accompanies him. this seems unlikely that the division commander would have gone a mile to the left. if they would have gone straight to the batteries, it would not it would left or it have been a plane if all armies were looking on. theeturned to his place at upper brigade. this is important because of the deep cut of the railroad. aswas not as deep as it was it could be filled by gravel. from julye and image the mast in the cuts. in the background, you can see the smoke where this is close to the crater. because of the obstacle of the railroad, he decided to execute a sneak attack. he was going to slip around to the left, engage them on a flat , andmove back to the right keep them out in the open. he does this successfully, driving away the advanced .rtillery batteries area the third objective was to carry the works in his front. the main works at petersburg. this towhich necessitates movig chamberlain down the battery 25. 13 24 have been abandoned by the rebels. abandoned.have been two artillery commanders associated the interior line with the new harris line that extended from the appomattox. if you look at pendleton's quote, general beauregard fell back to an interior line extending from the appomattox in the direction between the hair house -- hare house and the rives'house. this interior going to be anywhere along the harris line. in his various writings, chamberlain left a series of clues to pinpoint the location with a fair amount of precision. i have them labeled here a, the shelter of a crest. this advanced not less than 300 yards. distances are crucial. otayter became the battery. fort on myr, left -- left. salient was doing that. threatening the fifth corps during the day. the hollow in my front background, boggy, swampy. ink was firing on my front. i made a half face to the left, inclined to the left and felt a sharp hot flush. that was when he was wounded. it occurred at the bottom of the hill in the marsh in this area. corroborating evidence. -- there was a mountain of supporting evidence from other sources. summitamberlain artillery support it was supplied by barnes. griffin's stayed on the other side of the railroad. reports from bigelow and his companion precisely pinpoint the location of the ninth massachusetts. they talk about spending the morning advancing along the baxter road. they were advancing behind chamberlain and hoffman. they were in front of bigelow. wo, possiblye, t three bridges depending on which matthew use that they could have crossed. they crossed in openpace. you can see these two crossing in the woods, not in open space. they traveled and rested for an hour you the railroad. when they were called into action they traveled220 yards or an eighth of a mile. ego from this bridge, and eight of a mile, 220 yards you and of no or near 300 yards from the enemy's works. but up here you do. i think bigelow crossed the baxter road bridge that had been burned and reconstructed. bigelow was in this area when he came to support chamberlain. general warren commending the fifth corps -- commanding the fifth corps mentioned the center of his line, the only party can see got well underway at 3:15 in the afternoon and received heavy fire. at the divisions, crawford, griffin, cutler, the center is in this position. assaultfternoon included chamberlain according to theodore lyman's testimony. an3:30 p.m. there was advance by chamberlain and the men moved without spirit, receiving withering fire and fell back on the first crest. chamberlain desperately wounded. the midafternoon attack included chamberlain. interestingly, lyman, who was at the avery house, went to the northwest of the open plain to watch this advance. he said they were peppered with shells and bullets from the attack that landed at their feet. if chamberlain has been attacking from the south at midafternoon, the direction of fire would've been to the south and would never have reached the avery house or any point northwest of avery house. the direction of fire is very important. then chamberlain's claim, he had that he had -- his men got near enough to fall within 20 feet of the enemy's works. this is a claim that schweitzer's men also made. we wonder if this would have been possible in an attack near -- the answer is no according to washington roebling. washington roebling, best known as the engineer that the brooklyn bridge served as war aid at -- warren's petersburg. you recall chamberlain was in griffin's division. two reasons for the success. front,that in griffin's terrain was steep and it caused the enemy to fire over. the second is the distance from the railroad, the launching point of the attack was short. they did not have as far to go. make the unable to advance because the distance was long and because the terrain was flat. they made cross-sections of the terrain. there was only a 10 foot distance in the area in front of read salient. if it was impossible for ayers with a brigade to advance, how could chamberlain with a brigade advanced on salient? chamberlain was mistaken you are about what his men accomplished, getting within 20 feet, or about where he was. i think his mistake has to do with his location. the whole point of my investigation was to use the famous chamberlain to pinpoint my ancestors' position in sweitzer did. there was a twist of irony. sweitzer's location became the key to locating the loss chamberlain. stinsonseen how colonel reported sweitzer's attack north of the baxter road with chamberlain to his immediate left. then we found a letter in chamberlain's papers at the library of congress from brigadier general oliver knowles, a major at this time. he was the commander of my ancestor's 21st pennsylvania cavalry. hero to chamberlain telling him how on that day after they crossed the railroad and k nowles was approaching, that chamberlain remembered he was to his left. he connected with his left flank. this was in the chamberlain papers. i think it was very strong evidence of where he was. brigade,ave hoffman's cutler's division. multiple sources say chamberlain was to the right of hoffman. fortunately for us lieutenant officerthrop, a quaker in fort delaware, he kept a diary. he sketched the position of hoffman's regain on june 18, which you see here. if hoffman occupied this area and chamberlain was to his right, he had to be straddling the baxter road and not down here at these salient. then we have the issue of the movement to the left. fromin's division withdrew the center of the fifth corps line on the night of the 20th. making it necessary for crawford on the right and color on the left to stretch the fill the gap. then ayers, the left flank, moved further to the left to be able to even see the jerusalem plank road. then griffin's division moved left and occupy the area between jerusalem plank road. in the process of doing this on the 21st, captain sellers of company g in sweaters division tells how they did to drive rubble skirmishers up to the ground on which fort hell was afterwards built. if chamberlain charged in cap background of the 18th, given the be unnecessary for them to do it on the 21st. you never understand the battle until he view it from both sides of the field. we looked at johnson's report. he write a report of a midafternoon attack against elliott's brigade just south of the baxter road, which would correspond to the attacks of chamberlain and hoffman from the center of war and's fifth corps line -- warren's fifth corps line. then there was another attack on johnson's position in front of salient by sweitzer in the evening in which my ancestor was involved. chamberlain's claim that they arrived the night before on the evening of the 17th. but there is no evidence from that in the confederate reports. movect, they started their in the early morning at 3:00 a.m. they arrived in the battlefield by 7:00 a.m. field initially arrived in rhetoric 34. kershaw took the right flank of johnson's line. during the course of the line the field moved to the left and eventually replaced johnson after dark on the 18th. then we have statements from william rutherford who was in kershaw's regain. the enemy did not attack and we have john robes writing later that field's division was not engaged on the 18th. then we have the dilemma of the ninth core. seven digital history's in the first division of the fifth corps, free from chamberlain's brigade, four from sweitzer's, mentioned they either charged and occupy the position on which linenside's -- burnside's was dug in or the relief i ninth core troops. the ninth corp was on the baxter road and it would've been hard to do that. demi have chamberlain's claim that a friend from bowdoin college who commanded an artillery battery was in chamberlain's line of sight as he -- as darkness fell upon his eyes from his near mortal wounding. twitchell was north of the taylor, north of the baxter road. --as in the nineth ninth corp and there was no way he could of seen as he lapsed into unconsciousness. we have a pretty conclusive case substantiating the fact that chamberlain's attack was in the vicinity of the baxter road. he was attacking toward and a little south of salient. some of his regiments might have gone on to the southern edge of the horseshoe. this,ving accomplished one might ask why anyone would care about a single brigade in a single engagement on a single day? my answer is if history really matters, it should be accurate. it can't be accurate if you will ignore the terrain and skip primary sources and rely on the work of others for historical research. brigade isthe single not attack alone. the story of joshua chamberlain intersects with cap was other stories. -- countless other stories. we have found revelations of things like burned houses, ice houses, railroad cuts, disagreements between commanders, who captured a certain flag, whether one division passed through another during the battle. there is a wealth of collateral benefits that have arisen from a focused, micro study such as this one. some of those include taylor's chimney, which until now the only thing that can be said was it was burned sometime during the summer of 1864. we know it was the headquarters for johnson on june 17. by retreating confederates on the morning of june 18. that it was the site of the 21st pennsylvania calorie advance on june 18. the brick wall was the side of mink's battery and a later replaced by twitchell battery. they found a photograph on june of the burnt rooms in the background of a picture of cooper's batteries taken the very day of the battle we are discussing. things about ice houses. chamberlain talked about firing into an ice house on his right front. maps seem to show the ice house on the gellmer confederate map for making 63. lidar images. julie steele is now conducting investigations. she thinks she has found it on the battlefield. it's a very interesting topic for additional investigation. it is just south of the baxter road. we have new understanding that it was griffin's division of the that corps, not the ninth secured the line for the dug the crater. the fifth corps took that on june 18. released thems as they moved to the left. the fifth core was responsible for taking background. the advance of schweitzer's brigade, my ancestors forget, -- brigade, got the furthest towards the emmy line on june 18. -- enemy line on june 18. the making of maps. we have the historical maps that vary in their accuracy to a large extent. these are tongue depressors and lima beans i used. [laughter] told that would not do for a bookstore to get professional maps made. [laughter] here we have a lidar map taken recently from the air. subtracting out all the vegetation, we have a mishler map. some of the maps show branches of the creek above the baxter road, some show the branches below. some show it to the right of the railroad, some to the left. if you look at these two maps and superimpose them, they are almost identical. you can see the location of the crater and the taelor ruins. can be see the creeks superimposed. that tells me the terrain has changed very little since 1864, 1865. geologicalthe modern survey's national map and use that for the terrain. we can be much more specific and our mapmaking. with collaboration with a large list of people i contacted during the study, this is a tour we took in the battlefield at the time of the 150th anniversary of appomattox. we came down to petersburg and went out and scatter the field for a day. island about aerial mapping, lidar, gis, all the internet sources available, the library of congress and the things that are hidden there that remain to be found, the army war college in carlisle. it was a great learning experience for me. one of the most gratifying things was whether virginia department of history resources of younger information decided the monument marking chamberlain 's charge and wounding, the site of his winning was not an inaccurate location and they agreed to move the marker to its new location, which is just outside the boundaries of the park. and so this is the current site of the marker on the winfield road. the little triangle here. the actual site is right outside the park. the marker has to be on a state highway. you can't be in the park so it is close, within eyesight through the woods. there was a picture of where it is located. the siege road in the park. it currently follows the baxter road in this area. this is how close it is. chamberlain's wounding was probably in this area. there is are absent -- our absent cultural resource leader at the sign. and a book just sort of came out on this. i never planned to write a book but that is what happened. it is available for purchase here at the bookstore. it has been a very gratifying experience. [applause] mr. rasbach: i will with the understanding i'm not a historian and this is a very focused study. >> how long did it take you from beginning to and to do this? mr. rasbach: it has been two years. bstarted correspondence with ryce and julie when again there for the people's farm bus to work on september 30 or so, 2014. did a lot of the writing and the next four to six months initially. initially back-and-forth trying to convince other people who could not be convinced. those turn into chapters. then we decided we needed maps. it took about four months in the summer to make the maps. time, a long waiting time of the publisher where i was -- nothing was happening and then finally everything started to come together in the book of published. >> how many surgeries during that period? [laughter] to rasbach: probably 1000 1500. >> amazing. [applause] hold on until the mic is over here. hold on until the microphone gets to you. there are several physicians in the audience. i have a medical question. i read it chamberlain had a metal tube replacing the urethra for many years. is that correct? mr. rasbach: i know nothing of a metal tube. i know he had a chronic leak. he underwent two additional operations to try to fix it. they were unsuccessful. i think his life must've been one of misery. he continued to work. he held his position at the college. he was a surveyor of portland, maine. life must'veis been less than ideal. >> i just would like it known that chamberlain lived for 50 years after the war. some say -- mr. rasbach: some say he died of a complication from his wound, a chronic infection. you can die 50 years later from an injury. >> i work as a tour guide in the chamberlain house for years. she was just an amateurish historian. mr. rasbach: another question? >> here is one. >> -- and perhaps i have missed the focus of your presentation so i apologize. it seems to me that it's a question of location, and perhaps the units and the approach. itn i read civil war, i see almost as an attack against his integrity and whether or not he was wounded, whether or not he was brave. maybe i'm misreading it, but why do you use the word myth? ideaasbach: it is a false of where he was. i guess maybe we can look for another word to use, but it is not meant to attack his integrity. i think he was confused. i think he was injured, which alters the time of the injury. he went back later and try to reconstruct things and i think he just got it wrong. writingsntinued in his to convey the explanation of where he was and it was an accurate. there is a question right over here. >> i know someone was been vilified for rushing chamberlain 's account of appomattox. i just wondered if you ever thought about moving on to other topics where chamberlain's memory has been questions. mr. rasbach: i have heard a lot about that. i don't think i'm in a position to do that. it will take someone with stature like yourself. [laughter] [applause] mr. rasbach: i just tell the facts and the chips fall with a way. best where they lay. >> tell us about your relative. was he at appomattox? mr. rasbach: you was. he was in the 21st pennsylvania cavalry. they were discounted. they served in that capacity through the farm and then remounted his cavalry -- as cavalry. they saw action through the appomattox campaign. he was at the surrender at appomattox and he was mustered out in the summer after the war. my wife. [laughter] >> talking about the myth, the word myth, we did not like that word either. he had a completely different title with the publisher wanted this title. it was very long, much longer than he wanted. we think it could've been a different word, too. >> the myth of the myth. [laughter] >> thank you very much. [applause] this weekend on american history tv on c-span3, tonight at 9:00 eastern, santa clara university professor nancy unger looks at the role of gay bars in american history. >> many closeted gays go to their first gay bar. for example san francisco's black cat. they find out they are not the only ones. there are lots of people who are atypical sexually. and when the war is over they don't want to return to their small town in their small-town clauses. -- closets. many settle in the cities were the first experience self-acceptance. >> at 10:30, policymakers and officials talk about the 1991 non-lugar act, establishing the process of destroying soviet chemical and nuclear weapons. >> what we found is that to the russians, the nuclear complex was not an inheritance from hell. means for the the revival of a great russia. >> sunday evening at 6:00 on american artifacts, fdr presidential library archivist matthew hansen and motion picture preservationists christina kovac on their efforts to restore tenant president roosevelt's most important speeches. >> we select the films based on historical significance, frequency of how often they are requested, and quality of the footage. president roosevelt: i see one third of the nation ill housed, ill clad. >> at 8:00 on the presidency, mcgill university history professor gill troy looks at u.s.-israeli relations from harry truman to barack obama. >> i told the house of representatives i would commit political suicide if i do not support the state of israel." this is the audience for dissipation part. -- jimmy carter in 1977. fooled you. >> for a complete schedule, go to c-span.org. >> we found that public officials, the people who really govern this country -- not congress, not the president -- it is bureaucrats. they write thousands of rules and regulations that have the force of law, and we found out they do not think much of ordinary americans. announcer: sunday night on "q&a," benjamin ginsberg talks about his book, "what washington gets wrong: the unelected officials who run the government and their misconceptions about the american people." >> we elect a congress that makes the law, the president execute the law, the courts review the laws, but that ain't exactly how the system works. much of what we think of as the law consists of rules and regulations written by bureaucratic agencies, by bureaucrats who are not elected by anyone, and who often serve for decades. announcer: sunday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's "q&a." coming up on american history tv, from the 33rd international churchill conference, david lough talks about his book "no more champagne: churchill and his money." a retired banker and historian, mr. lough argues the former prime minister would borrow heavily from his friends and family to maintain his lifestyle and was often living on the edge of financial ruin. this is about an hour.