Impacted staffing and the safety of corrections offices. Let me just finish by offering two recommendations to the committee to address this growing problem. First, i believe that congress can and should fund federal state and local task forces to focus on gangs. They could be modelled after the joint Terrorism Task forces and should have a Single National and coordinated infrastructure led primarily bay federal agency with significant input from local departments. These Regional Gang Task forces will need the full spectrum of support from centralized intelligence sharing and analysis to the prosecution in the u. S. Attorneys offices. Where federal grand juries and firm sentencing have the greatest impact on disrupting the gangs. The senate has previously enacted legislation to accomplish this purpose. But it was never approved by the house. Senator mccaskill, you mentioned that sometimes we have an impossible job. My last recommendation i urged congress to act to balance Citizens Rights to privacy with Law Enforcement needs to lawfully monitor and intersect criminal activity and potential deadly plots. The expanding issue of going dark, must be addressed at the federal level to afford local Law Enforcement and our federal partners, the legislation and the tools they need to legally access encrypted communications that are used to coordinate criminal activities. Thank you for holding this hearing and thank you for the assistance that you provide Law Enforcement throughout our nation. Thank you chief manger. Apologize 50 50 shots. Two out of three i was wrong. Not unusual. Senator langford has to leave, ill yield my position to senator langford. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. And gentlemen, thank you for being here and the preparation for this time for the incredibly compelling testimony in the issues that you bring in the complexity what have you deal with every day. And we appreciate your work very much. All three of you mentioned the interaction between ms13 and whats happening in Central America. Several of you mentioned specifically the coordinate efforts between Central America and Law Enforcement here both federal and their Law Enforcement in that spot. What can we do to help facilitate greater cooperation, whether that be fingerprint sharing, identity, Background Information between individuals that are being deported here back there and back there but also individuals moving in this direction as well. What coordination is missing because ms13 obviously is a strong Central American salvadorian especially presence there, what can we do . Just say that you touched on a couple of things that we need to do, first, our ability to remove, identified ms13 gang members that have been arrested or convicted of crimes oftentimes we have not only in Central America, but other nations in our world that will not accept their residents back. And we need to remove them from our country, and so if we can work on that issue, it would be very helpful, and as i mentioned in my testimony that the truce that was in place between gangs in el salvador and their government really did impact things in our country. And when that truce broke down, it had a very created a spike in violence in our country. So youre saying the gang truce broke down in el salvador and affected the violence directly here in the United States. Yes, sir. Okay. What other resources, what other cooperation do we need from Central American countries . I had the privilege to just return from el salvador and with my position with the fbis task force, aye been able to go down there approximately half of a dozen times. I just recently as saturday. The fbi has in place in place i salvador the tag, transnational antigang group. Their success prompted them to have another tag placed in h honduras and guatemala. What i believe were seeing in the metro boston area is the inability to refer to a database that doesnt just cover local ms 13 members but ms 13 members nationally as well as internationally. I feel like a database, the input was from both el salvador and the United States would assist in the vetting process of these unaccompanied children across the border. A lot of times in el salvador, they have information that the individual may have gang ties, possibly not a member. In return, in the United States, we have information that the individual has gang ties, whether or not he or she is a member. It would be a great asset if that information found its way to a Clearing House that they would have access to internationally and nationally and even at the local level. All three of you mentioned something along those lines. Is the fbi the correct doeposi depository for that . Is there enough to say fbi should be tasked to have this database, international and national . In the metro boston area which i can speak on with confidence, we speak to the fbi tag in specifically america specifically, guatemala and el salvador. The Massachusetts State Police speaks the fbi tag in el salvador and guatemala maybe even more often that that. It would be my opinion that the fbi already has in place those resources and to expand those resources would probably be the best course. Mr. Sini . I agree wholeheartedly as i mentioned in my testimony, that this database is Mission Critical to facilitating effective collaboration and eradicating these gangs from our communities here. What were seeing for the first time on long island is direct connections with young gang members to el salvador, so in the past weve seen connections from folks gang members in sufle k county to the west coast. Now its directly to el salvador, guatemala and honduras. In addition to the database, i would just add, we work closely with the fbi with fbis safe streets task force. However, a broad special Operations Division may also be worth looking at. My understanding is that is certain essentially a multiagency division and that could assist in this type of database. Whats very helpful is when we have a number pop in Suffolk County and we share that with our federal partners abroad who have assets in Central America and the type of analysis and intelligence that they can gain from a single number is both scary when you see all the connections but extremely helpful. What is missing in this database that doesnt already exist . It sounds like the cooperation is there, the relationships are there. Whats missing in this database, just that it hasnt been launched . Because the informations there. Its my opinion that we have a series of individual databases that dont always connect nationally and international and i think it would be an asset to be able to connect them internationally again because that would assist with us not only knowing whos coming into our community but also would assist the governments within Central America to know at times coming back. From conversations with government officials in el salvador, that was one of the things that they were struggling with, as their resources to include the fbis tag addressed the ms problem locally in el salvador and the 20, 25 individuals, just a short time later a plane arrives and 50 more gang members are brought back to their country and you have to continue the process again. So its important to address the problem in el salvador if we look at the problem that were experiencing here in the United States. Mr. Chairman, this is something that the Appropriations Team has already started on about Central America specifically and some of the investments and the way that were targeting, how were spending money in foreign aid and how we need to be able to target this specifically dealing with violence because it has an exact connection to whats happening here. I would encourage cooperation between these two committees and whatever we can do with the fbi to help them finish out this database. It sounds like a common solution here. So well work with you together on that. Senator mccaskill. When you all identify a gang member who is in this country illegally, are you getting Immediate Response from i. C. E. For deportation. When we arrest them we typically do. When the fingerprints get to Homeland Security, they identify them as somebody they would be interested in, yes. Let me ask about the countries who wont take them back and the problem that you just very laid out very well with us, when el salvador arrests people, we take them back. Have we had a problem with either guatemala or el salvador refusing to take people that we send back here who arent in this country legally . I wouldnt be the subject expect. Are you encountered not being able to get rid of a gang member that youre holding because a country wont receive them back . In massachusetts, and specifically on the task force that i work in, we havent had a problem we dont know of a problem where their country didnt take them back. There have been roadblocks at times where an individual committed a crime and was placed in custody, up for deportation, and the federal judge refused the order of deportation. But that would be completely different than the country not taking them back. Right, right. Thats a whole other issue. I know you all talked about money for Regional Task forces. I think this is one of those areas where weve got to be really careful with the budget that the president presented because while theyre putting more money into border security, we cant forget that a lot of the money burn grant money, you all know what these programs are because your departments depend on them, especially for Interagency Task force. This money is not wasted, its not soft stuff. This is whats giving you the tools. I wanted to make that comment because the president s budget was not always kind to programs like that. Let me ask you about prosecutors. You talked about, commissioner sini, about more lying u. S. Attorneys and i get that rico has tools that local prosecutors dont have within the rico umbrel umbrella, but are you getting cooperation from local prosecutors on these assaults, on these felonies . Is there not enough cooperation from your local d. A. S on this . Because all of these crimes obviously are state crimes, not federal crimes. Assault isnt even a federal crime. Murder isnt either. Im just curious what the local cooperation has been. As i mentioned before, part of our strategy is to target these gang members and make street arrests and ive mentioned weve made many arrests and the vast majority are prosecuted by our local District Attorneys Office so in that regard we get excellent cooperation from the District Attorneys Office. Where i would improve the collaboration among the Police Department, u. S. Attorneys office and District Attorneys Office is oftentimes youre able to develop probable cause and the ability to arrest an individual on local state murder charges much sooner than youre able to make a federal murder rico charge. So what i would like to see, if the machine was running perfectly, is once we have p. C. , once we have probable cause to make that state murder charge, that person is arrested, prosecuted in the state system. If were able to make that into a federal rico charge, bring that case over to the u. S. Attorneys office. Its a collaborative effort. Perhaps you have a special assistant District Attorney and a special so its coordinated. Exactly. Improved screening and post Placement Services is also one of your recommendations. I certainly am aware of the post Placement Services issue. We had a whole hearing, senator portman and i did, in psi about the incredible problem of hhs not really there has been some put the gang issue aside, there has been some horrendous treatment of these children in terms of being forced into child labor and other issues and clearly i think thats someplace that we need to continue to focus on that. Let me finally just ask you, its my understanding, commissioner and chief, that neither one of your departments will be participating in 287 g is that correct . Thats correct. Would you explain briefly why you will not be participating in 287 g. Although we believe that Mission Critical to collaborate with the department of Homeland Security to remove dangerous gang members from our streets, we also simultaneously have to create an environment in which undocumented individuals feel comfortable coming to Law Enforcement with information about crimes. Therefore, we do not, for example, inquire into the immigration status of those individuals who are coming to the police as a witness, as a victim, or someone merely seeking police assistance. In the same vain, we believe if we entered into a 287 g, it could hurt our ability to encourage witnesses and victims to come forward. With that said, whenever we arrest an individual for a crime, misdemeanor or felony, and that person is not here legally, we automatically notify the department of Homeland Security. Chief manger, your department was listed on i. C. E. s jurisdiction that supposedly didnt cooperate with them. Obviously what the commissioner just described is the ultimate cooperation. Its paying attention to your Public Safety mission which has to be foremost. Youre the only one that answers 911 calls. Im not aware of anybody else in the entire criminal Justice System that answers 911 calls besides your department. So what witness stand the downfall of you being listed as a department that failed to cooperate with i. C. E. , and what was the impact on your ability to, in fact, put criminals in prison . The biggest challenge that ive had is to try and make sure that what a number of our elected officials have said has not been misinterpreted by our federal colleagues. The fact is we are not now, nor have we ever been a sanctuary du jurisdiction. We have found as we believe as i mentioned, Montgomery County is onethird immigrant when you look at our population, and i think the commissioner described it perfectly. Weve got to find that balance of whats right for Public Safety in our jurisdiction. If people are afraid to come forward to report crime, be witnessed to crime, our jurisdiction is less safe. We dont inquire about peoples immigration status. However, if we arrest someone, we cooperate fully with i. C. E. We respond to every one of their inquiries. The issue where i think many jurisdictions run into the challenge and weve been talking to Homeland Security about this forever, are the issue of the detainers. I think many people look at the issue of whether we honor a detainer or not, that is hold someone beyond when they would normally be released as a political decision. It is not. It is a legal decision. We have been instructed by the federal circuit, fourth circuit. Weve been given instructions by our attorneys that we can hold these folks until the time when they would be released. At this point we will notify i. C. E. Theyre being released. If i. C. E. Can get them, theyre welcome to them. Well give them notice ahead of time when theyre going to be released if we have that information. We had a case recently that i. C. E. Took the opportunity to put a press release out on, saying that Montgomery County released a dangerous person back into the community. It was a mistake. We had a detainer, we should have honored it. It was unexpected that a judge was going to release this person and we didnt notify i. C. E. When i say we, it was our corrections department. It was a mistake, fixed the next day and the person was taken into custody the next day. That does not overcome the it does not. The fact of the matter is we are doing the same thing that Suffolk County is doing and about 90 of the Police Departments in this country are doing. We have found that balance where we do not want to be the immigration police, but we absolutely cooperate and help our federal partners. Make no mistake, you guys are handling 95 of the Violent Crime that occurs in this country, not the federal authorities. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Ill take senator langfords question. That would be senator hassan. On that same line of questioning, is there any federal law that you would want to see changed or modified to help you do your job as it relates to gang activities and dealing with i. C. E. In terms of detainers and Immigration Law . Were bound by case law, and when were informed by our attorneys that we would be liable for false imprisonment if we do not release someone when theyre entitled to be released, thats a problem. So if there could be a change in the law that give those detainers the strength of a warrant, because if we have a warrant, we will hold someone and that is, i believe, the easiest solution, is to get a warrant to hold somebody. That gives us the Legal Authority to do so. Again, your concern about your liability and ive heard the same thing in terms of county sheriffs departments in wisconsin. There are some civil cases that hold them liable if they detain people, so its really giving you that Liability Protection if you actually detain people in this country legally. Thats correct. Believe me, theres not a Police Department in this country that doesnt want to hold someone who is a danger to their community, and if we can use that person who has already committed a crime, that has gotten them locked up in the first place, if we can use deportation as a tool for that individual, im perfectly happy to remove that person from my community. But i cannot run afoul of the law in doing that. Im going to come back to the strategy of using deportation versus arresting and imprisonment. But i first want to get to something pretty basic. It was interesting being briefed for this. Ive not been a prosecutor. I havent been involved in the whole issue of gangs. My assumption going in is the ms 13 would have been primarily drug traffickers, human traffickers. Kind of splitting this out, the reason people join gangs, weve talked about they dont have people here. They dont have family here, this is a type of family. But theyre also extorted to join the gang as well. Can you tell me, what is the purpose of ms 13 . From the gangs perspective, why are they recruiting, extorting . What is their main activity . Ill start with you, commissioner. Sure. They recruit to sustain themselves, and they are a criminal organization and their Main Objective is to exist and to be feared. Theres no question that they engage in criminal economic activity. Many of them sell drugs. Many of them commit extortion, robberies, burglaries, but they dont engage in those criminal activities as their primary purpose of existence. You understand how this is surprising to hear that . Their main purpose is just to exist, to be an entity, to have people loyal to them and the loyalty extends to ma chettying people to death. Does everybody else agree with that . Is that the main purpose . To add to what the commissioner said, we have to look at ms 13 in the United States as it evolves, just like we have to look at ms 13 in el salvador as it evolved. On the east coast of the United States, ms 13 is just getting a foothold. On the west coast of the United States, like senator mccaskill and senator johnson said, theyve been there for decades. When we actually imported ms 13 back to el salvador, but now theyve begun to evolve and on the west coast they do control Drug Trafficking markets. They do have connections with other criminal organizations such as the mexico mafia, ma. In el salvador, almost everybody pays, almost everybody pays some sort of extortion payment to ms 13. In some cases it might be as little as 1. But when a household in el salvador might only bring in 250, that 1 is pretty significant. So we need to learn from the patterns of ms 13 on the west coast and the patterns of the criminal activity of ms 13 in el salvador to be prepared for what ms 13 is ultimately going to try to put in place on the east coast. So to piggyback what the commissioner said, as of right now, they are just maintaining, and they really do just go out and commit the most heinous of violent acts, some of which as a 22year investigator ive never investigated before. To include cutting off of limbs, the attempt to cut off a victims head with a ma chetty. At this point in boston the commissioner said some of them are employed. Some of them go to work at 6 00 in the morning. If you go into certain restaurants in boston to arrest an ms 13 member, sometimes the Business Owner says, he was one of my best workers. Right now theyre maintaining, theyre getting their numbers up and we can see that from the metro boston area all the way down to charlotte. But they are going to evolve and they are going to attempt to take over trafficking markets of narcotics just like they have in the west coast and just like they have in Central America. So they have different specialties. In el salvador its extortion, on the west coast its Drug Trafficking. You would expect it would be Drug Trafficking, Human Trafficking . I believe on the east coast theyre still trying to get leadership into the right places to include boston, long island, virginia, the carolinas. I think once they establish that leadership base, youll start to see a more sophisticated gang that doesnt just solely commit violent acts but also controls some sort of narcotics market, possibly even illegal trafficking. Let me ask how theyre different, how theyre similar with other major gangs. Maybe chief manger can answer that. Our neighborhood crews which are not ethnic based, that is, they are more diverse in terms of their membership, they are the ones that typically have when we have homicides relating to those, its usually drug related. The homicides related to ms 13, its just because we can and because we will and because we want to instill that fear. Its because if youre not in my gang, then youre my enemy and im going to kill you. The economic support that ms 13 was engaged in was very unsophisticated for a long time. It was, were going to rent an apartment in some old Apartment Building and were going to put a couple of young women in there and get, you know, 20 bucks for every guy that wants to come in. This would operate for about a week. When it would finally come to our attention, we would be able to shut that down. It would just pop up somewhere else. Not very sophisticated. And usually they were extorting money and making money from unlawful operations. Now theyre going to latinoowned businesses and charging them rent and theyre using coercion, hear, threats, and threats that the victims know that these people have the ability and willingness to carry out to now extort money from legitimate business. This is a trend that were seeing more recently. Real quick because i did just want to ask you, you talked about the instance of a couple individuals lured through the internet to their deaths. Was that a initiation right . Why would they lure individuals just to kill them . In one case it was because they believed that that individual was part of a rival gang. In another case, it was that this individual had been approached and had been resistant to joining ms 13, so it was basically to teach them a lesson. No more reason than that. Senator hassan. Thank you, mr. Chair and Ranking Member for this hearing. To the three of you, thank you for your service as Law Enforcement officers and please thank your families for all of us too. Im the former governor of New Hampshire and i had the great privilege of being the chief executive over the New Hampshire state police, so im very appreciative of the time, effort, commitment that you all provide to your fellow citizens. Im very grateful for your testimony today and not only that but the suggestions and recommendations and i think they will help all of us as we Work Together to combat this gang and other Public Safety threats. I did want to delve into more of the discussion over what we think the root causes of Gang Violence are. We know we have to ensure that our federal, state and local Law Enforcement officers have the resources necessary to keep our communities safe and i thank you for your recommendations in that regard. But to touch on something that commissioner sini talked about a little bit, having a strong Law Enforcement presence in our communities is only really one part of the solution. We have to ensure, too, that there are social and Education Programs in place and that those are adequately resourced to try to divert young people away from joining gangs in the first place. So my state one of the important social programs that has helped us to address Youth Violence was a Mentorship Program between police and students. Its known as mpal, compared cops with kids in order to help kids grow, make the right choices and become productive members of the community. Among other things, they teach kids boxing, how to exercise, how to work out. Its been an important tool to combat gang recruitment and crime and drug abuse as well which is a particular devastating issue in my state. I want to ask you all about the social and Educational Programs in your communities and how they seek to address some of the root causes of Gang Violence and also just wanted your thoughts on what we saw from the president s budget yesterday which has eliminated federal support for key Education Programs such as dropout prevention and after School Support activities. I assume that you think federal dollars for this kind of work is important but id love to hear your thoughts. Maybe, commissioner, we can start with you. Sure. That is a critical piece to this to addressing this significant Public Safety issue. In Suffolk County our Police Officers do such fantastic work in terms of mentoring our students, our children in the communities and doing outreach to all of you are childrour chi particularly our atrisk youth. We do it directly with Police Officers. We also have launched a program called change, a not for Profit Organization that specializes in gang prevention. The idea is Early Intervention. Trying to identify atrisk children early on to connect them to sfservices, whether it social work, medical services, and providing that support so they can do well and also involves the families because thats key. The faecmily is going to have t biggest impact on this childs life. And involving Law Enforcement in these social programs is critical for several reasons. One, Police Officers tend to be just very warm and very intelligent and charismatic individuals and they tend to be good at this, but also it creates that trust between Law Enforcement and the community. To the extent that people are not comfortable with Law Enforcement, mentoring programs like the one you launched in your home state helped break those barriers. So it also achieves that objective. Id just add that in terms of Early Intervention, what better place to start than with the unaccompanied children because we know theyre coming over and they have they are vulnerable by nature of coming to this country illegally, not being with their parents, being so young, being new to this country, and to identify them early on would be key which is why notification to local governments i think would be very helpful. Yes, i vehemently support federal dollars for community policing. Thank you very much. Detective . In chelsea, massachusetts, my chief has always said if were reacting to a crises, then weve already lost. We need to be proactive and prevent the crises. In chelsea we have many programs that especially address the unaccompanied children, whether it be after School Programs that involves policing, whether its the Massachusetts General Hospital in chelsea that provides social resources to these children. Like the commissioner said, you have to involve the family. You cant take a 15yearold and think that 30 minutes after school playing basketball is going to have a lasting effect. It may open up some doors for a relationship, but once that door is open, you need to find out where that individuals going home to. We can spend all day playing basketball, but wheres that 15yearold going home to. As Law Enforcement agents, its our job to know where that 12, 13, 14yearold individual is going home to. So we spend a lot of time, i probably spend just as much time fighting gangs as i do trying to spend time with individuals in chelsea, preventing them from joining the gangs in the first place. So you have to get the families involved, and when it comes to these unaccompanied children, its important to help us identify what the crises is. A lot of these individuals are coming here across the border and they already have ptsd setting in, just the crossing in and of itself, weve heard Horror Stories about. One of the important things that i think would greatly help the state of massachusetts and specifically my community, chelsea, is that if we knew there was some sort of notification that came to the Police Department or came to the city that an accompanied minor was about to join your community, so that way we can search them out to offer resources, versus them trying to have to seek us out. And lastly, when it comes to ms 13, inherently, theyre not very trusting of the government. A lot of the social programs that we have in chelsea to include whats called roca, reaching out to chelsea adolescents, the ms 13 members see that as a government agency. They dont know thats a social agency, so it does hinder their ability to do reachout work. But just in closing, the proactive approach, the reachout work, preventing these individuals from joining the gang at the recruitment stage is critical. Thank you. Chief . Every one of us when we were 12, 13 years old, you start to mature out of always being out from under mom and dads umbrella and you want to have every one of us wanted a sense of belonging to something, a sense of being able to be somewhere we are we had people that cared about us, friends. For some of us it was sports. Some of us it was other school activity. Some of us it was church. The unaccompanied minors that come here are just a perfect recruitment opportunity for gangs because they come with none of that, but they all want that. So the key, i think, is to be able to, as soon as possible when we identify those folks, is to give them Wraparound Services. Im telling you, scott is right on, and i wrote down that, you know, walking home because we can do all we can for these kids, but then they got to walk home and thats where theyre vulnerable. So the Early Intervention programs, the intervention programs, we have something called a Street Outreach Network where we have counsellors who are specially trained, many of them former gang members, who actually intervene with these individua kids, keep them from joining gangs in the first place. The challenge is to identify these kids, and the one place where these kids will all end up that you might be able to connect with them is schools. The problem is the schools are hesitant and i understand why theyre hesitant. Theyre hesitant to get involved in the gang issue, but thats where you can actually find these kids. The schools have been reluctant, understandably, to start getting involved in those gang kind of programs shl programs, but if we can somehow coordinate a little bit better without running afoul of all the protections that are in place for these young kids, the Early Intervention is the way to go, absolutely. Thank you. Mr. Chair, thank you for your indulgen indulgence. Gentlemen, thank you very much and be safe. I have to chime in, the primary goal of federal policy should be to stop the flow or drastically reduce it. If we focus on that, then youre not having to worry about dealing with all these unaccompanied children. Its been a crises level and creating havoc. Our focus ought to be how do we stop or reduce that flow. Senator harris. Chairman, as attorney general of california i convened a group of Law Enforcement leaders in our state and other experts over quite some period of time to produce this report, gangs beyond borders, and its an examination of Transnational Criminal Organizations and what we need to do to stop them. Id like to submit that for the record. Without objection. Thank you. As a career prosecutor i started out as a baby d. A. And prosecuted everything from low level offenses to homicides. I was the d. A. And the attorney general of california. I cannot thank you enough for the work that you do. I do know that local Law Enforcement disproportionately shoulders the burden and responsibility for dealing with these issues, including Transnational Criminal Organizations. And it is too bad that others when we talk about Transnational Criminal Organizations, they automatically go to international Law Enforcement or federal, when in fact, local Law Enforcement really does carry an extreme burden for dealing with it at the local level. So i want to thank each of you and the men and women in your departments for the work they do. As local Law Enforcement, we know that tratransnational criml organizations are involved in the trafficking of drugs and guns and human beings. They have also adopted technology in the way they do their work. Among many reasons for being, the chairman asked that question, one of the highest reasons for being is to make money and they profit off of illegal activities that rise to the level of being lethal. Theyre involved in money laundering, government fraud, piracy, identity fraud. All of those are pursuits of illegal and organized criminal associations. But as local Law Enforcement, one of the things that we know is that one of the best tools that we have is the trust that we have between ourselves and the communities we serve. And when there is a break in that trust, it breaks our ability to do the work that we need to do and the men and women of your departments need to do which is concern themselves with Public Safety. Id like to talk about the importance of the relationship of trust between local Law Enforcement and the communities you police. You are aware that this administration has been looking at a policy of withholding burn jag and cops funding, federal funding to local Law Enforcement if you dont cooperate with Immigration Enforcement. Weve talked about that previously. First, tell me, how much do your departments rely on burn jag and cops funding to do your every day work . Can you tell me . If we can just go down the line. We are a recipient of grant money in excess of 1 million and it helps us fulfill many of our Mission Critical objectives. If that funding were withhold, what would that mean in terms of your ability to perform your every day duties and responsibilities . We would have to secure funding from another location which in these days in my county, that would be extremely challenging. Thank you. I would mirror what the commissioner said. My department relies greatly on that funding and if that funding was taken away it would seriously inhibit our ability to do what we do every day. Thank you. Ditto. We typically have around 1 million at any given time of that kind of grant money. The programs that we operate based on that money are absolutely critical to our mission. Theyre doing phenomenal things for the residents of our county. My hope is that were getting more clarity as to what a sanctuary jurisdiction is and what would make it ineligible for these kinds of grants. As we get that clarity, my concern is lessening a little bit because nowhere did i see where a place like Montgomery County would have to change what were doing. We do, in fact, cooperate with federal authorities, but again, the fact that weve elected not to become 287 g jurisdictions and do Immigration Enforcement ourselves would not make us ineligible for those grants. Im hoping as we get more clarity that it wont impact the majority of jurisdictions. Thank you, chief. On your point about your departments statement to your community that you will not be a 287 g city and department, lets talk a little about, again, the relationship of trust as it relates to what we ultimately want to do which is not just arrest the bad guy but prosecute him and get a conviction and lock him up. What we want to do is make sure that theres going to be serious and swift and severe accountability and consequence, in particular for those who commit Violent Crimes in our community. As we both know, the only way that we get to that goal is that we prove a case in a court of law. And the only way were going to prove acase in a court of law is if we present evidence to a jury or a judge, correct . Most of the time that evidence is not going to be coming from the bad guy himself. Its going to be because we have produced witnesses to the crime who will come and testify before a jury in an open courtroom, is that correct . That is correct. Wouldnt you agree then that what has happened over the course of many months since these statements have been made about a policy that would have local Law Enforcement cooperate with i. C. E. Is that there has been a chilling effect, in particular around witnesses who are immigrants, be they documented or undocumented . Certainly when the executive orders were first issued right after the new administration came into office, there was absolutely a great fear in our community about just how those executive orders were going to be implemented. You mentioned youre the head of the Police Chiefs yes. You probably know chief beck. Very well, yes. Chief beck has reported that in march he witnessed a 25 drop in reports of Sexual Assault, a 10 drop in reports of Domestic Violence among latinos in los angeles from the same time in 2016. Similar reports have come from houston, texas and salt lake. Would you agree that when the people of our communities think that theyre going to be deported, many victims in fact especially, will endure crimes like Domestic Violence or Sexual Assault rather than be deported and removed from their children and the community that they know . I do believe that. We were very quickly aware of the fear in our community and we redoubled our efforts to ensure to let the folks in our Community Know that our policy has not changed and that they had no reason to fear coming forward to report crimes or being witnesses. Ill just tell you a very quick story. We had a domestic homicide where a man driving down a busy street had abducted his estranged wife and she tried to jump out of the car, he grabbed her by the hair, pulled her back in, shot her in the head and pushed her out onto the street. There were two men within a distance that you and i are away from where this happened. They heard her scream, heard the shot, they saw what occurred. Both these men were day laborers. They were standing in a parking lot at a Convenience Store waiting to be picked up for work. Neither men spoke english. I dont know their immigration status but people can certainly speculate. As we arrived, these men came forward and spoke to one of my officers about what they saw. Had we not had the relationship with the community we have and the policies that we have, my guess is that both of these men would not have been there when officers arrived to start investigating that case. Thank you. Thank you all for your service. I really appreciate. Thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator hide camp. Their, mr. Chairman, and again, were all announcing our street cred on this. I too was the attorney general of my state, like general harris and i had the wonderful opportunity of leading teams in Drug Enforcement which inevitably led to Gang Enforcement and it was very difficult sometimes for people in a state like north dakota to understand that gangs had infiltrated their community. I think sometimes one of the challenges we have in states unlike california is getting people to admit they actually have a problem. I dont think theres any doubt that ms 13 has become a cancer in our society and that its met tastizing in every community, including communities in my state, especially native American Communities where its easier to infiltrate. I will tell you like any cancer, we need a whole range of treatments. If you get breast cancer, you cant just rely on surgery. Youre going to have chemotherapy, radiation, after treatment. So i want to focus, as my colleague, senator hassan focused on prevention and senator harris focused on what we need to do to actually have prosecutions. I want to talk about deportations. I, through an interesting set of circumstances, actually spent about an hour and a half, two hours in an el salvador een prin with leaders of ms 13. They rely on those gang members to maintain some kind of order within the prison system. Otherwise, the overcrowding, theres no way they could maintain that population. So you see ms 13 basically embedded throughout the culture and throughout the society, the Civil Society of these communities. I also in el salvador went to a religiousbased antigang program where a lot of it was job training, a lot of it was trying to find opportunities so that future gang members or people who were just on the cusp of recruitment could not could find an opportunity other than joining the gang for economic stability in their lives. With that said, i will tell you, the biggest problem i see is extortion. When you deport a gang leader, an ms 13 gang leader back to the community, theyre going to find a Family Member and theyre going to extort. All the great wishes and outreach that youre talking about today may not be all that valuable if they think that if they dont join in this country, that their grandmother will not be alive the next day. So the extortion piece of this is incredibly difficult to get at. And i think we cannot we cannot solve this problem without thinking about stabilizing the triangle countries, especially the country of el salvador. They are still suffering from the sresiduals of a civil war. That created the vacuum in terms of security and safety that gangs moved into and theres never been, in my opinion, a very effective reestablishment of the rule of law. They act in that way. Senator johnson and i also chairman johnson and i also witnessed some of the collaborations between our institutions and we actually saw the colombian folks come up and try and help to establish a rule of law and order in these communities. My question to all of you and then ill just let you take it from here, when you are arresting or when youre dealing with the community, how much of this do you hear, and have you thought about if only we could have a program in el salvador, if only we could work nmore collaboratively with our counterparts in the triangle countries, particularly el salvador, we could get a better handle on whats happening here . How much thinking have you done about international collaboration, i guess would be my question. To answer that, i just wanted to touch base on what senator harris what you were asking. In my community which is the majority of the community identifies with hispanic or latino trusts that Law Enforcement is priority number one. A lot of our community is made up of undocumented residents, and so trust with that subcommunity is priority number one. Weve gone to Great Lengths to assure them that, yes, since january i. C. E. Has had more of a presence in our neighborhoods, but the chelsea Police Department doesnt assist i. C. E. Operations when theyre solely for immigration issues i can appreciate that one of the challenges that you have is just within the community at large where you are, but its going to be really hard to convince that kid not to join a gang and not to act the way theyre going to act if they think that their parents or if they think that their grandparents are at risk back home. Right. How do we solve that . Thats a true statement. We do have evidence of individuals being pressured into joining gangs because of some sort of tie directly with el salvador. Senator, i think you said it at the beginning of your question, which was we need to secure, we need to stabilize those countries. Theyre fleeing for a reason. When they do, theyre coming to this country under the worst possible conditions. So like yourself, ive been to many of the jails and prisons in el salvador, and they have resources that are minimal at best. So theres no reason for that individual to actually attempt to reform while theyre in prison. Theyre just looking to get out and just go right back to where they were before they went in. So to answer your directly, yes, we need to make an effort to assist those Central American countries, specifically el salvador where ive been, in stabilizing. From the standpoint of the chiefs of police, how do you see an opportunity to collaborate with your counterparts in the triangle countries, particularly el salvador . Its a challenge. We certainly have partnered with our international partners. Ten of our members in the police is from canada. Weve had associate members from the u. K. The relationship between Law Enforcement agencies, especially our federal partners, and the Law Enforcement agencies in some of these countries, we got to build the trust there. You have to be able to trust that that information that youre sharing is not going to be misused. There is no question, the premise of your remarks, that theres an impact on what goes on here by whats happening there. Unfortunately, as a local police chief, im not sure local Law Enforcement has much control or much influence over the issue that youre asking about. And i think my point would be that then were just treating symptoms because we arent going to get ahead of this unless we work collaboratively, and i completely understand the hesitation to share intelligence or any kind of information back and forth. You dont know who youre talking to. And i think these are all efforts that were working on to try and improve the professionalism and the honesty and integrity of the Police Departments. Weve seen some steps in the right direction. They definitely are not there. But i still like senator harris and like senator hassan, i understand the Critical Role that local Law Enforcement plays, and when we make mistakes here in terms of National Policy and National Cooperation and the utilization of the resources we have in this country, when we dont do our job internationally, you guys are going to continue to be stressed and have this same issue. And so i just wanted to bring that because i think a lot of people think, well, deport them home. Deporting people home may, in fact, be sending one of the worst perpetrators who now has the ability to extort any number of additional people to achieve a criminal result right here in the United States. So thank you so much for everything that you do. We want to be great partners with you, and thank you so much for your testimony. Thank you. Senator dean, good timing. Thank you. Precision like the blue angels here. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you all for testifying today and for your service in the Law Enforcement community. You all mentioned brutal crimes in your testimony. These are hard to stomach. We just had a very brutal crime in montana last week where we had a Deputy Sheriff that was murdered, murdered by a man who was eventually killed by Law Enforcement. We had the funeral yesterday. We need to do everything in our power to put an end to the violence and cut off the flow of resources that fuel it. In montana while we do not have a sizable Transnational Criminal Organization presence, we do feel the impacts of their elicit activities. Ms 13 has established relationships with Drug Trafficking networks that distribute in montana. Virtually all meth in montana are trafficked from south of the border. We have seen the price drop in half with the influx and now more than 90 of all drug offenses in montana are meth related. Additionally, weve seen a nearly fivefold increase in heroinpositive drug tests. This impacts our communities from increases from Violent Crime to a disturbing rise in child endangerment and foster care case loads. Detective conley, at previous hearings with Homeland Security secretary kelly, we discussed demand for drugs as a key contributor to the violence in Central America. I understand you recently returned from el salvador training their police. From your perspective, how can we reinforce their Law Enforcement efforts . While i was down there i had an opportunity to speak to high ranking officials within their Law Enforcement community, and what they said over and over again was that what they were experiencing in el salvador was the sophistication of gang members coming back from the United States. Just recently in el salvador, they started doing title three wiretaps. Up until 2015, they didnt even have the ability to do that. In el salvador, what theyre what they need most in regards to combatting the ms 13 in the rival 18th street gang is not just the technology but the personnel that knows how to utilize that technology. But most importantly, and i know the department of justice has gone to Great Lengths to provide this, training for their prosecutors. A lot of their prosecutors didnt have the adequate training to prosecute a sophisticated gang like ms 13 or 18th street. When i was down there not this most recent time but a couple years ago, we found that their homicide detectives didnt do nationwi homicide vehicles. For the most part they just responded, wrote a report, and then moved on to the next homicide. So to answer your question directly, training, training is what they need. They want to combat the gang. El salvadorens that live in el salvad salvador, they despise the ms 13 gang just as much as people who live in massachusetts. They despise the gang and applaud all efforts to rid their area of the gang. But to answer your question, training. Followup, what else do you think these countries can be doing to stop the production of meth, to stop the production of these other drugs before theyre even shipped to the u. S. . I think i would be outside of my scope of expertise if i was to answer that. Im sure that the same techniques that we would use here in the United States, it would require a joint approach, a joint effort to totally stop the trafficking of narcotics. Commissioner, sini, in your testimony you discussed a surge to over 400 ms 13 gang members in your county in just a few years. How in the world did that happen . These are identified gang members in Suffolk County and a handful of hamlets. These individuals certainly comprise of mostly males. They are mostly latino coming from countries such as el salvador, guatemala and honduras. Many of them came to the country illegally. A small percentage of them are unaccompanied children and a small percentage are also lawful residents and even american citizens. Certainly we are concerned that ms 13 is recruiting younger people. As we target them, they recruit even younger. As we mentioned earlier, the unaccompanied children are certainly vulnerable for ms 13 gang recruitment and thats why its so important to address that population. Speaking of gangs, and i hail from a state that has a number of indian reservations. Im told by state Law Enforcement that gangs often find indian reservations to be a safe haven. Do you have any thoughts and ill open this up to the panel. Do you have any the panel. Do you have any thoughts on how we can boost collaboration with the tribal communities and Law Enforcement . Suffolk county has reservations in its jurisdiction. We have had issues involving crime, particularly gangs, on our reservations. In one instance what weve done is weve entered into a memorandum of understanding with the tribe to essentially provide Police Services to that reservation. There are obviously complex issues involving jurisdiction and sovereign territory. And that memorandum of understanding set forth clear terms upon consent with the reservation and the tribe to accept Police Services. That has gone that document has gone a long way in improving relations between the native americans living on that reservation and the Suffolk CountyPolice Department and weve been able to collaborate with the Tribal Council to target those criminals because the how long ago did you put the mou in place . Its been in place for several years. Have you seen actual results . Yes, absolutely. Were able then to work hand in hand with the Tribal Council to target problem individuals and locations. Because there is no arguing and there is no debating about whose role it is, who is allowed to be there, when are we allowed to be there. So we are it facilitates that collaboration and we have an excellent relationship with the tripledouble council on that reservation where we have the mou. Just like a town or municipality where we would have a problem location like zombie homes or problem locations like a drug spot. We do that with the reservation and its very effective. Thank you. To give you further insight on your opening line of questions in terms of Law Enforcement in Central America. When we were down there one of the biggest problems they have first of all, theyre combatting impunity and corruption. When i first heard that, impunity, thats a different term. You find out that local Law Enforcement has provided a not so subtle threat when theyre given a dvd showing their family is going to church or children going to school. Thats a, you know, pretty brutal reminder of why its pretty tough being local Law Enforcement down in Central America. Further evidence that we are strong were committed to securely our northern border, well represented on our committee. Youre next. Thanks, mr. Chairman. Appreciate you calling a hearing on this important issue. I would start by asking each of you, what is customs and Border Patrol doing at the border, particularly in regard to unaccompanied alien children to make sure that were trying to prevent the growth of ms13. Trying to look at people who may be coming across to join ms13 in this country. Whats the average age for the members . In Suffolk County the median age of active ms13 based on our arrests is 18. It certainly ranges from the the largest age range for active ms13 gang members is 14 to 29. Certainly there are younger and older gang members but that is our biggest bulk. In terms of the what department of Homeland Security is doing, my understanding is they are transferring responsibility over to department of health and Human Services at an early stage, and i think ill speak for Suffolk County, what we would like to see is more collaboration between local governments and the department of health and Human Services in the office of Refugee Resettlement in terms of replacement of these children in our communities including notification to School Districts and local governments so that we can be proactive in dealing with this very vulnerable population. Also, the immigration courts. Because if unaccompanied alien children particularly young males in the 14, 15 to 18 age bracket, if theyre being released into the community, then what doesnt that create is real concern that some of those may get recruited and end up as ms13 gang members . Yes and weve seen that some have. Its still a small percentage of the uac population but nonetheless its of concern to us which is why we think local notification and funding to provide services to these children is to important. Where is ms13 drawing their ranks from . You talked about significant growth. Where are they drawing that growth from . Where is it coming from . Theyre recruiting young people in our communities and recent immigrants. Oftentimes they prey on peoples fears. Recent immigrants may not be may not feel comfortable coming to Law Enforcement. They are adjusting to a new culture and society, so they are vulnerable at that point. And theyre recruiting also very young. There is one instance where, in Suffolk County, we have intelligence of ms13 gang members recruiting a 10yearold. Whats the draw . I think its a combination of factors. There is the draw that you can belong to something. We can put some money in your pocket. You can get high with us. Youll have a family. Well protect you. There is a sense of cultural unity as well. And then there is the other part. Dwib if you dont join, youll have problems. The fear factor, the coercion, if you will. The same questions, i guess i just wanted to add to what the commissioner said. I can tell you in my community, if you are a 17yearold El Salvadoran that just arrived in the massachusetts area, as a uac, all you have ever known is ms13 and 18th street back home. From childhood, thats all youve ever known. The control they control complete city blocks. Multiple city blocks. They control multiple cities. A lot of times, when that child comes here and theyre confronted under like what we spoke about a few times, under the worst possible conditions and they have one individual come up to them and even speak about ms13 or 18th street, that child goes right back to what he or she knows, which is what ms13 is in el salvador. And they know that, once that contact has been made, that they only have, really, one choice. And that is to join. Now, we have had success with individuals resisting at the beginning of that recruitment process. And locally, i am talking about success locally. Weve had success with having that individual resist that gang recruitment, and then actually the gang at some point kind of leaves them alone. Because a lot of times ms13 is only looking for individuals that want to be ms13. But, under the uac program, a lot of these individuals are coming to homes that didnt want them, a parent that didnt want them. Sometimes weve even had interviews done with individuals that didnt want to be here, that their grandparents said, weve raised you long enough, its time for you to go live with your mom. And then the worstcase scenario, the sponsorship program, where there wasnt any vetting taking place. And we have horrific stories of individuals living in the worst of conditions. And like everyone on this panel has said in our opening briefs, that is the classic vulnerable 15yearold individual that seeks out gang, the identity of the gang, in replace for a broken family structure. Just one more point. I cant comment on what goes on at the border. But i can tell you, from a local Law Enforcement perspective, like the commissioner said, if we had some sort of notification that came to the community and im not sure how that notification would be made so that when the individual comes here, that they have resources provided to them, whether it be through the schools, whether it be through mental health, but the worstcase scenario is the scenario that were living right now where we get notified from the school that 38 new students just arrived from Central America. Some are thriving and some are not. And those are only the ones that we can identify because theyre seeking out education through the schools or social services through medical facilities. So its it would greatly assist local Law Enforcement if some sort of notification was done, especially when were talking about 13, 14 and 15yearold kids. That goes right to my next question. Are our laws sufficient to try to deal with the ms13 problem. Sounds like right there something that would be helpful, some type of notification requirement for people coming across the border as to address, where are you going, and that Law Enforcement would be one of the entities at least notified so that you are aware wed have to give some thought how to do it. That would be my question, are our laws sufficient so that you can try to deal with this problem. I think our criminal laws are sufficient in terms of dealing with criminal behavior by gangs. Where i think we need help and i dont know whether its new laws or different laws, but its the if our health and Human Services folks and thats they are notified in my jurisdiction. They have some somehow theyre notified when we get these unaccompanied minors that are sent to our jurisdiction. Detective conleys mention about oftentimes these kids, they say, i am going to my uncles house, this is where my uncle lives. They verify that. What they dont do is get enough information about whether the uncle is even capable of taking this person in. And then what happens when the uncle says, okay, ill take them, and two weeks later says this, is not working, we dont do this. We have where are the Wraparound Services to help that family, to help that child, that individual. And this is we need perhaps better standards in place to make sure that whatever situation were sending that person to, its viable. And viable for a some longer period of time. Thank you. Thanks for your work. Thank you, senator hoven. I want to thank the witnesses for taking the time, for your testimony and thoughtful answers to our questions. Primarily, thank you for your service. We all know the risks you are taking, we all have, i am sure, in our states people, Police Officers, other Public Safety officials who have given their lives in the line of duty. We understand that and truly, truly appreciate your service. With that, the hearing record will remain open for 15 days until june 8. At 5 00 p. M. For the submission of statements and questions for the record. This hearing is adjourned. Cspan as washington journal live every day with news and policy issues that impact you. Coming up thursday morning Washington State democratic congressman denny heck discusses the latest in the investigation into russian interference in u. S. Elections and Thomas Rooney will be with us. Be sure to watch cspans washington journal live at 7 00 eastern thursday morning. Join the discussion. Regardless of your background, remember where you came from. Hold on to the way so many of you reached out to mentor Young Persons through the colby cares about kids. Hold on to the way you engaged in this community. And make sure to bring that commitment to whatever walk of life you choose. Bravery, not perfection, was the key that unlocked every door that i have walked through since. It took me 33 years to figure out that brown girls can do whiteguy things too. As soon as you understand that you are here because of a lot of help, then you also understand that now is time to help others. Thats what this is all about. Saturday night at 8 00 eastern, 2017 commencement speeches. This weekend speakers include former california governor arnold snachwarzenegger at the university of houston. Former Vice President joe biden at Colby College in maine. Girls who code founder in california. Doug ducey at aeronautical university. Javier gonzalez at new mexico and Governor Rick Snyder at Adrian Community college. The president released his Budget Proposal for fiscal year 2018 yesterday. It includes 668 billion for the military. Shortly after the announcement, officials at the pentagon outlined the request. Welcome, everybody. Happy budget release day