Transcripts For CSPAN2 Key Capitol Hill Hearings 20160629

I appreciate this opportunity for the first hearing of this calendar year. In my view of todays hearing, we present the American People with a false choice. Its very premises suggests that we can either keep america safe or preserve our fundamental values. I reject that promise. We can and must defeat terrorism without sacrificing our principles. To compromise these principles and blame over a billion muslims for the twisted actions of an extremist view only serves to divide america, to alienate and legitimate the load groups that falsely claim to speak for islam. This makes us less safe. To truly tackle and destroy the ideology that lead fanatics to do us harm we will be best defended by maintaining open, tolerant us and religious freedom. We cannot fight radicalization with further radicalization. The country is still trying to make sense of a tragic attack in orlando 16 days ago. He massacred 49 innocent people, injuring 50 more, 50 more, leaving our nation and world shaken. These act of violence are sadly all too familiar and leave us asking why this congress refuses to take simple actions to prevent them. The particular form of violence of omar mateen will continue to be under scrutiny in days to come but there are a few facts i want to assert. First, as a nation we are not at war with the religion of islam. A deranged murderer invocation of islam with a hollow attempt to justify his rampage by cloaking it in the legitimacy of religion. We know isis is trying to falsely characterize us of being at war with islam. They are trying to characterize themselves as the legitimate heir of the prophet a mohammed. Isis is not islam. It is a perverted interpretation of one of the worlds great religion religion. It has killed more muslims and christians and extremists that call themselves isis neither practice islam or seek it. No religion condones massacring innocent people and faithful muslims and leaders around the world have this denounced isis for the terror group that it is. As you raise the question of president obamas committed to combating isys, let, let me recount that the president has also condemned the threat of isis, not what debate of a few words but with decisive action. We have carried over 13,000 airstrikes airstrikes and killed more than 25000 isis fighters and 120 isis leaders. Over the last the last year isis has lost more than half the territory it controlled in iraq and syria. The u. S. Built a 66 Nation Coalition to fight isis and these partners including 19 muslim majority majority states and organizations are committed to eliminating the threat posed by isis. They have contributed to wide range in the efforts to combat isis in the middle east and iraq and syria and beyond. Third, there is over 1. 6 billion muslims in the world including millions who are american citizens and are interwoven into the fabric of our nation. They are doctors and lawyers and scholars, service members, colleagues and friends. I have been deeply disturbed by inflammatory rhetoric directed toward muslims and how it has infected our political discourse in the United States paired are Muslim American citizens and neighbors share our stake in the Nation Security and our desire to be free from violence and hate. We know we can defeat isis without forgetting our value. They are able to engage and promote what are effective to be Law Enforcement techniques without prejudiced. I reject the notion that there is some sort of Political Correctness from fighting our enemy. It simply too polite to say that the brave men and women that keep yourself safe are not fighting. Place a blame on radical islam only seeks to empower isis. Let me submit for the record if i could a wide range of documents, but first a statement of principles signed by dozens of Foreign Policy leaders including former secretaries which correctly states religious bands and tests are unamerican and have no place in our refugee and immigration policy. Mr. Chairman i have a long list of statements id like to submit for the record from the Ranking Member senator leahy and the Public Affairs council, and amnesty international, the Labor Alliance and are New York Times article and Washington Times article. I believe those will be smitten without ejection. Without objection. As to the empty seats before us, it is my understanding this hearing was scheduled with a minimum of notice and no consultation with the invited witnesses from the administration. It is my expectation they are busy keeping our country safe and as you surely appreciate from your work in the Justice Department, asking witnesses to speak about the Ongoing Investigation into the orlando incident would not have produced any testimony. I would note that the sector will be before this exact committee in two days prepared to answer questions. Let me close i quoting what i have just omitted for the record, an article from general david pretorius. Those who flirt with hate speech against muslims should realize they are playing directly into the hands of al qaeda in the islamic state. Demonizing an entire religious faith and its, runs contrary to our cherished and fundamental values and it is also corrosive to our Vital National security interests and ultimately to our success in this world. I look forward to what i hope can be a productive conversation about our National Security, our civil Civil Liberties and respect for Muslim Americans. I think my friend from delaware for his comments. I would note that they suggested it was scheduling issues that prevented them from attending. This was noticed two weeks ago and we received a letter from the department of justice that did not site scheduling conflicts, they they just said they would not attend. I would suggest that was not inadvertent. I would also suggest that senator coons followed the lead of president obama. The first when he said as we have no war with islam. That is certainly correct. There are millions of peaceful muslims across the face of the globe and president obama and Senate Democrats do grave disrespect to them when they suggest some sort of equivalence between peaceful muslims and radical islamic terrorist. To suggest that confronting radical islamic terrorists is somehow hostile to peaceful muslims bears no bearing on reality. I would note as well senator coons, like president obama said this is just about creating a few words. No one has suggested radical islamic terrorism said that saying them out loud will suddenly make it go away. You cannot fight an enemy you do not acknowledge, that you pretend does not exist and that you refuse to confront. Its not simply that president obama wont say radical islamic terrorism, its that they have engaged in a purge to erase any focus on radical islamic terrorism. Senator mentioned a minute ago that we are still trying to make sense of the terror attack in orlando. One is only still trying to make sense if one ignores the actions and words of the terrorist. A terrorist who pledged his allegiance to isis and whose pledge of allegiance was edited out of his 911 call by the Obama Administration, an action that would make George Orwell proud. It only makes no sense if you do not listen to the promises to murder as many innocents as possible and the purpose of this hearing is to focus on the connections between that policy of willful blindness of insisting there is no such thing as radical islamic terror and the repeated failures of this administration to prevent terrorist. When the orlando terrorist told his coworkers that he was affiliated with al qaeda and when he is interviewed three times by the fbi, when hes interviewed and has connections to an american suicide bomber, when the father is publicly proclaiming on youtube his support for the taliban, any administration focused on fighting radical islamic terrorism would have watched that individual very, very closely to make sure the terror attack he was getting signal after signal after signal was a real risk. Orlando is not the only instance. Over and over and over again this administration has warning signs but because of Political Correctness the result is innocent americans are killed. At this point i would like to recognize mr. Carlin and mr. Steinbeck to provide their testimony. They have refused to attend so with that i will invite the members of the second panel to please come forward. Each of you will be sworn in marmot momentarily. While you are coming forward i will begin by introducing each of the members of the second panel. The first witness is doctor m duty who is the founder and president of the form for democracy in phoenix, arizona. A graduate for the university of wisconsin milwaukee and the medical college. He is a former commissioner of the United States commission on International Religious freedom and he served as a medical officer in the United States navy. He is currently in private practice in phoenix specializing in internal medicine and nuclear cardiology. She is the president and executive director of Muslim Advocates in oakland california. A graduate of Wellesley College in cornell law school, she is previously served as counsel to the u. S. Senate Judiciary Committee and has worked as a litigation associate associate with several prominent washington d. C. Wires. Mr. Philip haney is a Border Protection officer in the department of Homeland Security. Officer haney completed several tours of the center in washington d. C. And he has won numerous awards and accommodation for producing material that led to the identification of hundreds of terrorist. Having retired in july 2015 he now resides in marietta georgia. Mr. Richard cohen is a graduate of columbia university. He is previously testified before the he is a businessman activist and National Security consultant based in Franklin County virginia. He has been nearly a decade researching the threat america posed by radical islamic terrorism in developing expertise on the private organizations that terror groups rely on for support. Hes a graduate of North University law school and he previously worked as a special agent of the fbi. He is taught at the National Defense university, the John Jay College of justice and spent several years with the civil unions office. Mr. Andrew mccarthy is a senior fellow at the National Review in institute, a graduate of columbia and the new york law school, he served as a federal prosecutor for 18 years in the United States Attorneys Office for the Southern District of new york. He was the lead prosecutor in the terrorism case against the blind sheikh and 11 others convicted of urban terrorism against the United States. Mr. Mccarthy is the author of several books. I would ask each of you stand and raise your right hand. Do you affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god. You may be seated. You are each sworn and we will begin the testimony. Is your microphone turned on. Okay or should be a red light. The microphone doesnt seem to be working if someone can try to address the technical issue. Perhaps you can use the adjoining microphone if that one is working. Thank you charming cruise for this very important hearing. I am president of the form for democracy based in furyk phoenix, arizona and i request my statements be written for the record. Im here today taking time away from my family, work during this last week of our holiest month of ramadan, a time of fasting and deep atonement because i could not feel more strongly that our Current National and direction in combating islamic terrorism is deeply flawed and profoundly dangerous. As a devout muslim who loves my faith and loves my nation, the emphasis is the greatest obstacle to National Harmony and National Security. Wholesale denial of the truth by many in our government is not only dishonest but it lies to the American People. There is extremism on both sides of this debate because the radical for their cauldrons of saudi arabia and iran end up speaking for islam. Im sorry to say that linking this to islam to saudi arabia and iran and the egyptian state, to pakistan so when you speak about 1. 6 billion muslims youre actually handing the narrative to the regime, not to the people of those governments requires them to maintain their global form as the only form is islam. If we are on the side of muslim dissidents than we would be on the side of having this debate. America was formed on a debate of democracy. I think we are adult enough to have this debate and do it functionally without saying we are having a debate in which we demonize 1. 6 billion 6,000,000,000point i would tell you as a muslim in this month of ramadan that we demonize them by letting the islamics speak for our community. They are not monolithic. They work to refuse to acknowledge the role of islam and its precursors. Majority of americans are smart enough to understand to say that the house of islam has no problem is just as problematic as declaring that islam and muslims are the problem. A National Security policy is refusing to say that islam currently has a problem is dangerous. This surrender which began just after 911 has charted a course. It has hamstrung our Homeland Security heroes from directing the most central precursors of militant islamic. If the agency actually emphasized the role of islam and its ideologies, it would shift the entire act excess of the agency towards one of beginning to address, expose and it view the root cause of political islam which would begin to make us safer. We cant hold our Homeland Security accountable for precursors and then tell them they cant even engage because all they are looking at his violent extremism. The only way to write this misdirection is to shift the center back access to countering violent extremism to countering violent islam is him. We must identify what it is. We were founded on the premise that terrorism, isis, al qaeda are all symptoms of bureaucratic bullies. We formed our organization to counter political islam just as the Founding Fathers did against bureaucracy. In december we convened to help launch a diverse Reform Movement that included over 15 organizations. Its a coalition of reformers in the u. S. That is not part of this. It includes feminist, those who believes in gay rights and all these issues of left to right but they came together to reject political islam. If everyone of them were here today, they would tell you that the refusal to identify clinical islam is the root cause and the Conveyor Belt is the greatest obstacle to reforming the ideas that turn out these militants. Not one iota of this work would be possible an environment where they are unwilling to understand and engage groups domestically and abroad on the diverse interpretations of these terms which i listed in my testimony. We should be able to have the maturity to engage on what these terms mean not to engage in those terms is not only dishonest but it actually marginalizes what you want and claim to respect. In fact the administration has not done so because of those who engage in their advisory circles like the council on islamic relations which is not supposed to engage the government but does because of its influence and connection to, i would say, the lobby in washington. I asked that any official use on the following terms that i discussed be immediately lifted. Any apparatus unable or unwilling to connect the dots between nine island and violent ideologies is leaving us bear and will miss the signs of radicalization. Fort hood, Boston Marathon, San Bernardino and likely orlando will show that and everyone in every one of these cases it is abundantly obvious that if they were honed in on the continuum of political islam that ultimately they would have had these individuals on their radar, but they didnt because they are waiting for that final moment when they become violent i want to end with some recommendations. We need to stop hiding behind offending the oic in their regime which put muslims like me in prison every day. The u. S. Government and Public Discourse must include a Broad Spectrum of ideologically Diverse Voices in the Muslim Community and not just one apologetic voice that doesnt see a problem and is enabling the continual radicalization of our community. It is time to stop engaging muslim brothers and media and recognize their problematic underbelly in underpinning. We must recognize they are not the only voice for american muslims that we must take womens issues and freedom of conscious a litmus test. These groups on prest will fail. Its time to start giving credence to the dictatorships over the opinion of muslim here in america that believe in our liberty and freedom. I ask that you continue in investigation into their Expansive Network of foundations of many of these Muslim Rutherford legacy groups. I asked that you no longer fight fear, offending us by using the talk term that we use what we debate these issues within our own communities. Those are pressed by islam and muslims. Homeland. Depends on your honesty. Thank you. Thank you. On the morning of september 11, 2001, while working for then russ feingold, my colleagues and i learned that that a plane hijacked by terrorists was heading for the capital. I still vividly recall what it was like to run out of the Senate Office building fearing for the safety of my friends, my colleagues and my family. Three weeks later our Senate Office received mail contaminated with deadly anthrax spores. My colleagues and i were put on powerful antibiotics for several months to counteract possible anthrax exposure. You see mr. Chairman, i understand on a deeply personal level what it feels like to fear harm and be under attack. I resolve then to do my part to ensure that violent extremists regardless of race religion or ideology never succeed in their mission to destroy the value that make our nation great. Freedom, justice and equality for all. Mr. Chairman members of the subcommittee, thank you so much for inviting me to testify today on how we can do better to keep our nation safe while upholding our nations value. After 911, present president george w. Bush could called on the nation to uphold the values of america. He said no one should be singled out for unfair treatment, for unkind words because of their ethnic background or religious faith. At a dark moment in our nations history president bush comforted the American People by assuring them that we are stronger together. Nearly 15 years after 911 we are experiencing another dark moment candidates for president of the United States have said that lawenforcement agencies should patrol and secure muslim neighborhoods. There should be a National Registry that muslims should carry special id cards and that all muslims should be banned from entering the United States. This rhetoric makes our nation less safe. It makes us less safe because lawenforcements job is to find the needle in haystack, a task that is made much more difficult when more stacks of hay are added to what the fbi director has called a nationwide search for the needle. We are also less safe because isis wants us to have war against muslims. Think about it. Do we really want to surrender our values, American Values to one that has no risk whatsoever for human life and Human Dignity tragically this has signaled to the public that it is okay to fear your muslim neighbor. It has lead in the last several months to a disturbing and unprecedented rise in hate crime. Murders and firebombings, shootings in the last seven months alone there have been nearly 100 hate crimes against american muslims and those perceived to be muslim. These hate incidents are not near statistics. They affect real people and families. Most importantly our children. Late last year mother told the story of her daughter sophia. Sophia began collecting all of her favorite things in a bag fearing that the military would come to take her family away because they are muslim as sad as this story is the response from u. S. Army veterans who have heard the story was powerful and touching. Veterans posted images on social media of themselves in uniform with this message to this child. I will protect you. Since the tragic events in orlando, Muslim Advocates along with americans from all walks of life have stood with our friends in the lgbt q community. You see, we are not willing to give up on america. The idea that a group of people diverse in every imaginable way can form a lasting bond based on the shared principle of freedom, justice, and equality for all. Some would dismiss this as Political Correctness. To me, it is a belief in the power of what has made america great. We hope that our elected officials are not willing to give up on america, that you will do everything in your power to uphold and defend americas defining values and principles. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Haney. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, thank you very much for the opportunity to testify here today. I would also like to express my appreciation for the patients and the members on the committee and senator cruise while obtaining a copy of my written testimony. I would like to start with the visual aid. This is the Homeland Security Advisory Council countering violent extremism for 2016. I colleague referred to it earlier by suggesting that we should refrain from using words like puma or jihad or others. I would like to also show you this was published in january 2008 and its called words that matter. I want to talk about what happens between these two documents, 2008 and 2016 because it was during that. Of time that what we know now of countering violent extremism policy came to be. One of the expressions was what we heard about in the media in the few days after the orlando shootings. They were going to release the calls from 911 with all of the messages from the attacker removed. That is the exact opposite of what we need to do to protect our country from threat. Between these two times came what i call the first great courage. When i was ordered by the department of Homeland Security headquarters to modify a euphemism all pieces out of the lawenforcement system that had to do with Muslim Brotherhood network here in the United States, i was told to remove all unauthorized references to terrorism and i was no longer allowed to do what are called memorandums of information received, what we call mo irs. No more text records or research or special treatment from the agency, but during that time, hundreds of lawenforcement actions had been taken in the three year time period. Period 820 records were still in the lawenforcement system. At exactly the same time a controversial inaugural meeting took place on january 27 and 28th 2010 between american Muslim Leaders in the department of Homeland Security which was hosted by the department of Homeland Security civil rights and Civil Liberties. It was controversial because several of the individuals attended it only the conference was known affiliates of at least two of the front groups that had just been named as unindicted coconspirators in the largest terrorism trial in the history of the United States. Also, that spring at least six individuals with known affiliations to the but Brotherhood Group was appointed to the countering Violent Extremism Working Group which was convened under the authority of the Homeland Security Advisory Council. I would like to show you now the local of the Muslim Brotherhood, the moderate organization that this administration chose to ally itself with. Across the middle it says the Muslim Brotherhood and at the bottom, taken from carranza 860 is the word that means prepare yourself to terrify your adversaries with deeds of war or weapons of war. That is the model of it. By the spring of 2010 we come to the point that an officer was allegedly making information while the administration was bringing the very same individuals into position of influence. To help implement a our terrorism policy as evidenced in our over support of the Muslim Brotherhood in egypt, algeria and syria. Fastforward to a case that i worked on that was approved by the chief counsel of the department of Homeland Security. This is an icon of one of the largest movements in the world outside the United States. Its called the army of darkness i began the assignment and temporary duty in november of 2011. Within six months we had instituted 1200 lawenforcement actions on the case that we had started. In september 2012 what i called the second great courage when the administration removed 67 linking records out of that case that had direct ties to the San Bernardino killing and the Islamic Center down in florida. Now that we are the network that we had worked on is tied directly to the terrorist attacks that we have seen recently. At the end of my career i was relieved of my service weapon, all access to text was cut off and suspended peer my secret Service Manager and access was taken away while investigations from three different ranches of the government were concluded. In july 31 of last last year i retired honorably. In conclusion, the threat of islamic terrorism does not just come from armed organizations like isis who are operating over there somewhere in the middle east. Branches of the same Global Network had been established here in america and they are operating in plain sight, especially among those of us who have been charged with the duty of protecting our country from threats foreign and domestic. It is actually quite simple. To establish fear everywhere in the world including here in america. There is an organization in the United States that is actively doing that. Its called the assembly of muslim jurists of america. Its a benign sounding name but in arabic it means the group of lawyers implementing law in the United States is unconstitutional. The threat that we face today, it continues growing despite those who insist otherwise are not the tactical methods of violent extremism or even operative but the strategic goal of implementing this law everywhere in the world so that no other form of government, including the United States constitution is able to oppose this influence of the lives of those who must either submit to its authority become secondclass citizens or perish. Thank you very much for your attention. Thank you mr. Haney. Thank you senator cruise. Its good to see again. Our country faces threats of violent extremism from many sources. The horrible massacre at the orlando gay nightclub earlier this month by gunmen pledging allegiance to isis is the latest example. A year ago this month it was a massacre of churchgoers that the charleston manual church by a white soups premises. Two years ago it was the murder of Las Vegas Police officers by antigovernment zealots who had been at the ranch. I would not take issue with the Obama Administration assessment that terrorism from those are inspired by groups like isis but i would point out that the threat of violent extremism from those blinded by racial hatred and rage of the government are serious ones as well. While i would not go so far as to say that our government has been willfully blind to these threats, i would say that the record shows that both republican and democratic administrations they have not always given these threats the attention they deserve. The clearest example at this point comes from the history of the Domestic Terrorism Task for that the Justice Department established after the Oklahoma City bombing. The task force was scheduled to have one of its regular monthly meetings on 911. They didnt meet again for 13 years as the threat associated came to dominate the governments attention. During this time period, the number of hate and conspiracy minded groups skyrocketed in the level of violence increased by a factor of four. President obama has been a particularly lightning rod for the radical right. The day after he was elected, storm front, the leading neonazi website whose members who have committed various murders reported it was getting six times its normal traffic. There are a lot of angry white people looking for answers. When dhs released a report in 2009 assessing the likely backlash to the election of our first black president , the reaction from groups like the American Legion and members of congress was so fierce that the report was withdrawn in the dhs unit that produce the report was allowed to wither. In 2014, the Justice Department finally revived its task force after a white soprano missed glenn miller killed three persons in the Overland Park kansas that he thought were jewish. Still there are indications of the threat of Terrorism Associated with groups like isis dominating the government thinking. The Oklahoma City bombing was the first incident, the first terrorist incident that president obama mentioned in his speech at the white house summit of countering violent extremism in 2015. It was virtually the only mention of radical right terrorism during the entire summit. Two weeks after the charleston massacre the house Homeland Security committee released a Terror Threat snapshot that didnt mention the charleston killings. Congress has held multiple hearings, as it should on the threat of Terrorism Associated with groups like al qaeda. As far as i know neither the house or the senate has held hearing on terrorism directed at lawenforcement officials in the west by government zealous such as the bundys. Members of congress have actually sympathized with the bundys at times. Again, the threat of extreme violence from individuals associated with or inspired by groups like isis is serious but its not the only threat that we face. Furthermore, as the recent study by Duke Universitys Triangle Center on terrorism and security concluded, Law Enforcements virtual single focus on the threat of Terrorism Associated with groups like isis and its heavyhanded tactics risk fraying the bond of trust between lawenforcement and muslim communities that is so essential to effective Law Enforcement. President bush said it best, we are not at war with islam. Muslim communities are part of the solution, not part of the problem. Thank you. Thank you senator cruise. Im a National Security consultant with a Company Called understanding the threat. We are the only organization in america that trains lawenforcement intelligence professionals, military leaders on the threat from the Global Islamic Movement. The doctrine of jihad he groups and how to identify, investigate and dismantle them. We hold the firm belief that in order to defeat the movement we must understand the enemy. U. S. Military war fighting doctrine, specifically the intelligence preparation of the battlefield manual states that war planners must begin all analysis of the enemy with who the enemy says they are and why they are fighting us. That begins the basis for the trimming the enemy threat doctrine. In the case of jihad hes is sharia. Universally, the enemy, whether its al qaeda, isis, the Muslim Brotherhood, they all state that they are muslims awaiting jihad and the cause of the law to establish an islamic state. I will discuss one jihad group, the Muslim Brotherhood. Based on evidence in my own experience conducting Undercover Research, the council on islamic relations the Holy Land Foundation was adjudicated in dallas texas in 2008 and identified terrorism as the Muslim Brotherhood Palestine Committee which is hamas. A designated Foreign Terrorist Organization the u. S. Government identified hamas as an outgrowth of the brotherhood. Documents entered into evidence in the Holy Land Foundation trial also revealed that its not the islamic brotherhood of america, it is an organization that supports hamas. At the time it was indicted, the the Holy Land Foundation was the largest Islamic Charity in the United States and it was convicted on 108 counts for contributing to a terrorist organization which is the Palestinian Branch of the brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood create safe, allah is our goal, the cron is our constitution, jihad is our way and death to the glory of all law is our greatest ambition. The Muslim Brotherhood by law states that the islamic nation but be fully prepared to fight the tyrants and enemies as a prelude to establishing the islamic state. Again the Muslim Brotherhood agenda is no different than that of al qaeda or isis. The Muslim Brotherhood logo has two swords cradling a cron with a reference of the first 60 of the cron that states against them make ready. This verses also referenced in the al qaeda training manual which was discovered in may 2000 by british investigators conducting a search. During my time investing Undercover Research as an intern i preserve documents that covered up fraud, pleased staff and inside interns inside offices, conspired to influence congress, specifically judiciary intelligence and Homeland Security committees impact the congressional disc tricks and influencing legislators. Ordering books on martyrdom. I worked with the muslim Law Enforcement officer to him impact. [inaudible] one of the results of this situation is to order the removal of terms like jihad from our lexicon. I attended a convention in ohio in 2008 organized by Muslim Brotherhood group and both the department of Homeland Security and the department of justice fear of prison had recruitment and outreach booths. I know they are coconspirator in the World Trade Center bombing it was the first to offer. [inaudible] to congress. This means training the lawenforcement mother. They canceled training with threatenings of cries of islam a phobia and racism. Documents entered into the evidence of the holy land trial and a memorandum outlined the role of Muslim Brotherhood in north america. Quote the process of settlement is a jihad process. They must understand it is a type of grand jihad in destroying western civilization from within and sabotaging the miserable house by their hands in the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and gods religion is made victorious over all over religions its made up of many other groups, hamas, hezbollah, the brotherhood, isis and many other groups and countries. They all seek to impose sharia. It is the blueprint from which they create their war fightings strategies. From our perspective that makes the enemy threat doctrine and a direct threat to the public. Until american leaders identify the threat and formulate policies and strategies that stress adherence to this ideology we will continue on our current path of defeat and lose this war here at home as we did in iraq and afghanistan. Thank you. Thank you sir. Chairman cruz, Ranking Member, members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify. Our counterterrorism efforts are not as effective as they need to be to reduce Political Violence abroad and build public resiliency at home, i disagree that the Obama Administrations reluctance to use the term radical islam is part of the problem. Policymakers and organizations have ensured that radical islam has remained a predominant part of the discourse since the 911 attack. Congress has held more than a dozen hearings from the top. Biased and flawed materials produced by the fbi and the departments of justice, defense and Homeland Security vividly demonstrate these groups had to stand to influence on the obstruction these agencies provided over many years. The problem is not that there has been too little talk about of radical islam, but too much. I agree with resident obama that this rhetoric offends values of america and undermines the National Unity and International Cooperation necessary to effectively Counter Terrorist violence at home and abroad. This is not Political Correctness, it is factual correctness. Radical islam islam is no more accurate or a descriptor of that violence created by islams than it is to promote violence done by christians in groups such as the ku klux klan. It only stokes to create fear and bigotry. The fact that the first five are locked in conflict with each other in the last wasnt even a muslim group doesnt seem to matter to those determined to see them as parts of the global conspiracy. More damaging however is when radical is used to smear muslim civil rights groups, charities and religious institutions in the same way that the fbi did to labor organizers, civil rights and peace activists. As in the past, we error and think gang that we can improve our collective National Security by undermining the security and liberty of some subset of fellow americans. The focus on terrorism committet lawenforcement actresses and priorities which have disproportionately and indiscriminately targeted muslim communities with surveillance and infiltration to the exclusion of other violent threats. Half of the Violent Crimes including one third of the homicides in the u. S. Go unsolved even as the fbi investigates tens of thousands of false leads based on flawed radicalization theories. Meanwhile, at the 2011 triple homicide in massachusetts had been solved, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev would not have been free to mastermind the Boston Marathon bombing. Inform policy the ideology is the lens through which we evaluate many civil wars. It blinds us to the true nature of these political conflicts and puts us on a path of perpetual war with predictable consequences to Civil Liberties, human rights and the rule of law. Ideas ideas cannot be killed in ideology cannot be destroyed. Though we defeated nazi germany in world war ii, my undercover work against neonazis in the 1990s and the political assassination in britain this month show fascism was not defeated. We respond appropriately to this threat by criminalizing the violent behavior, not by attempting to destroy in ideology. Today americans know little about isis except to be deathly afraid of it which is exactly the way isis likes it. The flawed narrative that likens radical islam to isis through vulnerable American Communities is generating mutual distrust and animosity, leading to more cause for discriminatory policy and increasing anti muslim violence. This is selfdefeating as alienation and the experience of discrimination are often identified as the conditions that lead to that. It pits americans against one another and amplifies fear and it will not improve our National Security. We need to provide objective information about the nature and scope of the many threats we face in the efficacy of the measures taken to address them. Protect the American Values and our commitment to the rule of law is what will ensure our lasting security. Thank you. Thank you sir. Mr. Mccarthy. Thank you chairman cruz and members of the committee and thank you for inviting me to testify today. As my submitted testimony summarizes, i worked on terrorism investigations, trials and changes in counterterrorism law in various capacities over the years. It taught me that there are very much two sides to the story. The first muslims i met in our investigation after the 1993 wod trade Center Bombing were not terrorists. They were muslims who had a patriotic fervor for the United States, without whom we could not have infiltrated terror cells and stop the massive murder attack, the plot on the new york city landmarks which would have killed thousands of people. In my second career as a writer in 2008, i penned an account of my experiences entitled willful blindness, the memoir of the jihad. The title is obviously a double, my principal defendant omar is a blind and will for exponent of the supremacists ideology. Our governments response to to the threat he represents has been and continues to be willfully blind to this ideology. The belief system that catalyzes against us. To grasp this dangerous phenomenon we need only consider the blind shake himself. After the World Trade Center bombing, our government represented to the American People, just as it does today, that the terrorist attacks executed by muslims on islamic grip sure was a wanton act. Think about the blind shake. He was not nearly blind, he had several other medical handicaps. Terrorism is hard work yet here was a man who was the unquestioned leader of a terror cell who seemed utterly incapable of doing anything that would be helpful to a terrorist organization. He couldnt build a bomb, he couldnt hijack a plane, he couldnt carry out an assassination, all he could do was command murder. How could that be . The answer was straightforward though it was plainly not one that we wanted to hear and still one that we do not want to hear. The blind shake as a doctor of islamic jurisprudence graduated from Alazhar University in cairo. The seat of islamic learning for over a millennium. His area of expertise in sharia, the legal code and societal framework, the jihadists that listen to him did so because he is an internationally recognized authority in islamic scripture, specifically of the political ideology drawn from that scripture that inspires attacks against the west. The centrality of ideology tells us why terrorists obeyed the blind shake. It tells us why terrorist act, something that we must grasp if we have any hope of defending ourselves and defeating them. We need to define a true islam in the futile hope of discrediting terrorists of purveyors of a false islam. The fact is there may not be a true islam. Islam has a rich and diverse history and there are various interpretations of it, all vying for the mantle of true islam and denying it to one another. it is antiwestern misogynist homophobic antisemitic hand rejects the power of the people to drop their own destiny and rejects equality with no separation between Spiritual Life in society and to spread sharia and regards United States closely trailed by israel and europe as a principal enemies to islam that must be defeated. This is something to highlight not avoid. This is not a partisan issue policy has been willfully blind for a quartercentury to the underpinnings of the islamic terrorist the reluctance has been rationalized and are similarly shielded from the investigation notwithstanding that is the precursors to violence and it cannot regard evidence as if it is hate speech nothing inherently wrong or much less offensive about the concept the radical religious beliefs should trigger an investigation with association of letter radicals or mosques known to endorse jihad. It is an important principle to get right to. Cannot be evidence to prove guilt somehow insulated from the suspicions of the potential terrorism offense. The goal of counterterrorism is the prevention of the jihadist attack not only is there is of living terrorists or to to be tried only after americans are murdered. In 1996 and was awarded the Justice Departments highest honor for of the jihadist commands the exploitation and the commission of the atrocities by young muslims. To say what the Clinton Administration honored before tuesday as he is, phobic big it but the state mr. Chairman and is no way to protect our country. Thank you. Each of the witnesses for our testimony and will begin our question and i would note that your testimony is exceptionally important and valid command members of the media and the American Public to examine your testimony close because you have described a systematic policy indeed of scrubbing and sanitizing and erasing references to radical islam and you describing your oral testimony as the first great purge 376 documents were edited by the fbi to remove references to radical islamic terrorists so and my understanding your testimony correctly that the administration has been systematically scrubbing intelligence materials to remove references to radical islam . To my guess it happened one year after the trial when it was proven the federal court that these networks were tied to Financial Support of tomas those records that i was ordered to modify there were virtually all linked directly to the Muslim Brotherhood network of individuals under condition established right here in the United States stick and i want to draw your attention to the following chart that compares the 9 11 Commission Report which had 126 references to jihad and 322 references to is long. No free fast forward to the counterterrorism looks upon now suddenly that has disappeared they have likewise disappeared from the National Intelligence strategy and from the strategic Implementation Plan and finally the National Intelligence strategy 2014 is this pattern of orwellian editing consisted with your experience of what you observed helping to protect this nation . Yes. The first was in 2009 but that wasnt the last one there was another great purge when they didnt just modify the records a completely eliminated the matter of the system which the bypasses security protocol for a department from an security and it may not have mattered except for one tragic consequence except for a the san dirty deal in fort pierce were directly related to the case of those 67 records deleted out of the system. Could you elaborate on how potentially focusing on this threat may have helped the San Bernardino terrorist attack . Give it the networks are made up of individuals and organizations they dont exist without the network. You have to look at both of them that is why there is no such thing as a lone wolf terrorist because itll function in a vacuum outside the structure of uh Community Just like planets dont rotate without a Gravitational Force so to look at these acts as separate is a flawed because were looking at tactics not strategy this strategy is implementation of sharia law if you militants tactics they will change constantly in we can never acquire a target if we understand his underlying strategy many in the stand by these organizations exist in the first place in the area understand why there will be affected by that Gravitational Force to orbit their lives around the central structure that is why the mosque is called the Islamic Center because it provides the center in their life. Your organization asked the Obama Administration to purge references such as this from Law Enforcement training materials and the administration complied air request is it your position and that the references to the Commission Report was somehow offensive for bigoted . Our position is that those materials as well as products produced by the fbi are alienating the more importantly day make us less safe because the recent tragedies have shown us including orlando is we need Law Enforcement more than ever focusing to find the needle in the haystack and by broadly painting entire Faith Community with their broad brush of suspicion were dumping more hay on to the haystack making the job more difficult. So with respect answer the question is a your organizations position that the 126 references by the nine Living Commission was somehow offensive for bigoted . I want to make it clear mr. Chairman our concern is not just terminology but what they are communicating not just using a word but what is communicating to agents. You dont think it was bigoted and it is one to understand your position whether or not it is bigoted to use the word jihad to. This is what i think is problematic with Public Officials whether the congress or the administration who describe the problem as the problem of radical islamic terrorism. Isis assisted vl maurer it is not only that but just grossly inaccurate. It is no different day and the kkk or those that attack abortion clinics with radical christianity to called the threat what it is it is the kkk and attacking clinics. Now i have asked you twice with those reports was bigoted your offensive than twice you have declined to answer that straightforward question. Maybe i didnt understand your question. The use of the term in general with the 9 11 Commission Report i dont think is problematic itself as officials talk about the threat that is my concern. Then why would it be purged in 126,000 . I cant explain. And what their thinking was. But to deliver a request for a purge . Gimmickry ask for a purge of bigoted training material. On march 16 the Long Island Press quoted though beagle director to say what are you going to do about radicalization of the Muslim Community . That is nonsense there is no such thing. I am curious to degree do you agree there is no such thing . This is what we do believe based on the attacks we have seen whether the orlando shooting or the attack the church in South Carolina we know extremist violence takes many forms and people are motivated regardless of race or religion and what we also know there is no path away to get to that point experts say that it is a Common Thread that uc for those of us seek a sense of purpose so we do not believe in this canard that somehow there is a pathway and that is what numerous studies have shown as well. Relative you one more opportunity to answer the question so do you agree with your legal director said there is no such thing . There are violent individuals of all communities. Is a connected to any of ideology . Some people think it is said the center or even part of the causation of what causes people to engage in violence it is unjust me but experts who say that. So ill give you one more opportunity to say yes or no a there is no such thing . As radicalization krispy i will note for the record date is not what you to answer. Show courtesy instead of badgering. [applause] to show courtesy to the victims of radical islamic terrorists,. [cheers and applause] for those that is murdering 49 people in orlando pretending it doesnt exist. I thank you have been very respectful the witness has not answered your question in bidding to have a right to pursue you did it in a gentleman a professional way i am disappointed that senator driven does not understand that. Mr. Chairman i do think it is important for us to allow a broader conversation than the one question. And renewed took issue with president obama is alleged refusal to use the term by one of the questions we have what will we do to keep part interests eberhart Going Forward . The presumptive nominee has used the term is monism is this entire hearing dedicated to the difference and in my view it is worth considering whether those proposals made to conduct the controls of muslim neighborhoods to require a National List to bar them from coming to this country with the First Amendment religious activity. I have to ask a question for both of you with those proposals make us safer . We have a lot of testimony here today about whether or not there is willful blindness or actions taken by dedicated professionals as a result of Political Correctness and the pressing question for this panel is if we will address the whole problem is simply having a nominee or free address this problem by proposing and as a matter of our own constitution. If i may i absolutely agree that just talking about the terminology lot like the problem away and the issue is we need to focus on the actual activity of what is causing the violence to ensure Law Enforcement has what they need to focus on finding a needle in a haystack. And having this disputes about the terminology is not helping Law Enforcement do its job. We need to focus on the real threat that what i said earlier the use of this terminology is counterproductive because it feeds into the narrative that our enemies want isis wants it to be a war against islam and to be frank with you listening to some of the comments i was disturbed because i thought if isis is watching this now half of the journalist just gave them ammunition to go out and create recruiting videos this is what the u. S. Senate is doing is giving a mouthpiece to this garbage frankly. Senator i fully reject that moral equivalency of having this conversation to unleash hatred and bigotry with the most democratic country in the world. Into a significant rise. I believe as many would tell you but denial of the problem creates us a treatment rather than treating the disease at its core to polarized the community in this country one that says there is no problem and the other says every muslim is a possible terrorist and actually this conversation the way it has been adopted is because they love it and love the fact they want the senate not to talk about political is long because their allies it is exactly what the saudi regime desk and they say they are with us because it no one does to an appeal the opinion that the terminology that they have to go have to do is a disease islamism would allow us to engage muslim reformers they dont what reformers they want us to continue to be dominated that say closure is america cannot deal with this select those theocrats dominate. Says that the case you dont think we can . Let me say where my colleagues is going he is trying to have an ideological debate whether in the United States to other muslim countries but i am focused on how we can keep our country safe and how can lawenforcement do its job . Im doing this work 15 years and in the Bush Administration i never once have heard a senior lawenforcement Officials Say it is a problem is is, where radical islam that is not an accurate description of the threat in the major country less safe if we continue and to not focus on the true threat. Q served as the officer for 15 years to 16 years than conducting numerous investigations of radical and extremist groups barrasso those you draw a connection from perverted versions. And your suggestion is removing training materials that our unfounded in fact, to make Law Enforcement more effective so talk about that those that were uncovered show that this material is not just open the biased against arabs and muslims and other groups like chinese cultural Awareness Training and many others that had factual laws and as the investigator trains you want to focus on what they are trying to accomplish which is a reduction of violence when i was working undercover a lot of people said a lot of things they didnt like the one i had to do working within the guidelines at the time was objectively evaluate where there was a reasonable indication of criminal activity and by focusing on the handful of people engaging in criminal activity those that were expressing themselves in ways that i would consider hateful was a legal but i believe we are robust enough that we can leave with those expressions and what we need to do is make sure our Law Enforcement officials are focused on the facts on the ground rather than the theories that dont survive. So does the removal of the flawed counterterrorism training materials make us less safe than weaken the ability to identify those that they engage in acts of terrorism . Makes them more effective and i suggested that the shooter will be the subject of ongoing scrutiny. I meant there will be debates of though watchless loophole and others might argue we should adequately fund to insure we have more boots on the ground and that is largely the point of this hearing even if there are a few important words such you think there are stronger actions even if it is to keep americans save . It with the results of lack of due process from the public just like those that were on the watch list but it is so bloated it creates so many false alarms so in fact, nobody responded to those when the system worked. And to seek clarity brought to the watch list to make it better. But if the of model they are using now and then try to whittle down who may or may not present a threat that is with the data explosion within the fbi makes it different to focus on different threats and the money to go back to the standards that i worked under but working with a reasonable indication with illegal activity rather than a flawed theory. Classic Law Enforcement work relying on the indication of substantive backs with further assaults. If you look at tens of thousands of investigations and with the next level investigation that is only the allegation and the Inspector General report suggested the fbi and the agents were making their own allegations. It isnt a very High Standard but a tiny percentage to even make it to that level to create a lot of false alarms. Senator sessions would be next please kindly allowed him to go ahead. The administration has acts of terrorism foreign and domestic with poverty and lack of Educational Opportunities with this approach is taken and with the the osama bin london himself. And to have personal wealth with Career Opportunities that is significant or substantial. The specs person and with the neck up the average governments end as a muslim with the islamic extremism. Have you found these sorts of material factors with Educational Opportunities and wealth or poverty that these are the root causes of radicalization of the islamic population . I am reminded of is saying, my father and my grandfather that when you point to the moon you look at the finger. There is a lot of things to blame for those are radicalized in susceptible but to blame that Syrian Revolution and with those narratives to focus on their own political agenda and blame whatever fits into the block of what is happening in the muslim world. To have this revolution of ideas in the house of islam we can sit back and let them do it and dominate the conversation under countering violent extremism or we can weigh in treated black adults with tough love and say they are going to push back and treat the theocratic mentality and have a vision because otherwise theres the cognitive dissonance that prevents the advancement of the ideas that can happen this laboratory in america. Take your medical and now to step further in europe for two trading symptoms instead of addressing the root cause. I assume you could analogize this to a misdiagnosis. In this instance that we missed a diagnosis as a malady that has brought about as a result of poverty and the result of lack of Educational Opportunities or a Career Opportunity what might we mess . We would miss the fact that the prisoners in saudi arabia and syria are fighting not for poverty against poverty. They are fighting for freedom and for liberty and in this Great Society we can even recognize the voices, the descendents voices but if you look in the cold wars being told that their voices dont matter at all that matters is the economic plight and in the meantime marker from the cold war would cozy up to the tie and condescend not soviet con is that our allies when the root problem was communism and socialism and collectivism so in this battle the root problem is the overseas and the government at least take size within the house of islam and let the airs and the pakistani stop seeing us is cozying up to the theocratic that are pressing the movement against the hundreds of millions and for the majority of the green revolution, the revolution that ousted the Muslim Brotherhood. Right now we are leading by not using the terms we are letting the islamists define and lead what is to be a muslim and i reject that as an americanmuslim who loves his constitution. Thank you very much dr. Jasser. Thank you senator lee. Senator klobuchar. I think senator durbin might do next. Our right, well thank you very much. Thank you mr. Chairman for hoping is hearing and thank you senator coons and thank you chair witnesses. This hits home for me. With the largest mali population of the country. I was just went out to me with her first ambassador and 25 years to somalia ambassador schwartz im in has been an Foreign Service broker for 20 years and is taking on this difficult assignment and understands this is a balance in the balance is going after terrorism and in place of somalia going after isis and its also going after extreme ideologies, extreme ideologies, islamic extremism here at home. In our community we love our somali community. Nearly 100,000 people. I have a fulltime somali outreach who has been elected to the school board. We have people who are running businesses, who are part of the fabric in our state and i was a prosecutor managing an office of foreigner people during 9 11 where musawi was captured and so we get this belmonts and we see it all the time radar we figured my mission is a prosecutor was to convince the guilty and protect the innocent. What i have seen, the change from 9 11 than the bush u. S. Attorney went around to the mosques and assured people that president bushs direction that they would not be victims of hate crimes and they would not be bullied that we would stand up for them and that was part of america. Ive seen different rhetoric right now that is hurting those communities and not furthering justice. I met with some of our people from our Muslim Community a few months ago at a mosque and heard the story of a family that had gone out for dinner. The family had experienced a discrimination before. They were simply having dinner with her two kids and a man walked by and he said you or go home to where you came from. The little girl looked at her mom and said mom, i dont want to go home. He said we could go out to dinner tonight. I want to e dinner here. I want to eat dinner at home. These are the words of a child because she only knows one home and that is minnesota and she only knows one home and that is the United States of america. So in a state where we now have dozens of segments against people who have been trying to go to join the evil terrorist organizations of ousted bob and isis where we have convicted people in just the past month understanding how important this is respecting our Law Enforcement and fbi and u. S. Attorneys, u. S. Attorneys at appointed by the supposed reason for their work. I dont understand how we can an entire religion and an entire community because of the concept of a few so this is a balance. I guess my first question and i have heard congressman ellisons name was raised. He is my congressman. He is a man of great patriotism and he is a man that is. Up with one of the most conservative members over in the house who took Michele Bachmann seat to start. The two of them have done that together because we dont see politics as getting in the way of not just the prosecution of criminals and evil but also in the defense of american, innocent americans. I heard his name was raised but i know and i want everyone in the panel to know that he has been an advocate for funding as i have been and senator franken and i as have many to figure out how we can go after this and figure out when young kids, no parent wants their kids to grow up to be a terrorist are influenced by this that we can do a better job of identifying problems and thats where the Homeland Security i know jeh johnson will be testifying here and we will ask them about this. We are putting out grants from Homeland Security. We put Something Like 50 million in the last appropriations bill to try to go after this violent extremism and i guess i would ask you mr. Chairman how you think this could work and how this is part of the solution in addition to what i support his strong Law Enforcement to prevent these kids from being influenced in the first place. Thank you for the question and ive been fortunate enough to go to minneapolis and speak quite a bit with the minneapolis somali american community. I think part of the problem is keeping the frame as extremism. When you look at the foreign travel in the first instance during the somalia civil war, there was an invasion from a foreign country into their ancestral homeland so since there has been a United States of america, americans have gone to fight in foreign conflicts, not just one that they have familial attachment to put where they fell some interest in either becoming part of the bigot venture or some ideological attachment to one side or another and we have treated that as a normal part of american life. We now have this prism of extremism whereby a net ignore the complex going on and treated as a problem within the heads of these children and my concern is that by doing so what we are doing is shoving the conversations about those foreign conflicts into this dark corner of the room. So parents tell their children, dont talk about politics in somalia or syria and iraq when you are in the classroom. Dont talk about that. I dont think that is what this program is about. Its not about that. About working with communities and trying to give them the support they need so that kid is starting to have issues and they see things that they start pairing them up with people so they can figure whats happenings. Ive been looking at these programs. We go support them . Is difficult to say that because i cant get information about them. We have been trying very hard, these are public programs. We should be a will to evaluating publicly. I will be asking jeh johnson about this when he comes in for the hearing. I want to hear some the other views here because some of the people that a been recruited in minnesota, a lot of times its people on the internet and obviously we have First Amendment rights and maybe you mr. Cohen and well move on because im two minutes over about what we should be doing here to limit some of this recruiting and taking responsibility for the private and public sector. This is slick recruiting thats going on right now within our midst. Thank you for the question. We have to put out alternative voices and not have a narrative that we are opposed to them or that we are attacking their religion. You know there was a study done by the people at duke and they surveyed almost 400 Law Enforcement officials and talked to over 200 Community Members and a variety of focus groups and the sense was that there were sort of an oppressive atmosphere from Law Enforcement toward these communities and that i think is pernicious and counterproductive. I think we have to maybe restart and rethink some of these programs and of course provide alternative narratives for young people and if i could add one more thing if i could. A lot of the rhetoric in the president ial campaign has been i think traditions for young people. We did a nationwide survey of teachers asked what has happened in your classroom as a result of this . There are a lot of kids who are feeling bullied, a lot of kids were feeling scared especially the young people. I have heard the same thing. And thats a dangerous thing so i think its quite important that all of us especially people in your position and positions of other persons on this committee to speak out against that. That does something that president bush focused on after 9 11. It made a big difference. Thank you very much. Thank you. Senator sessions. Thank you mr. Chairman. Mr. Cohen i remember during the civil rights stays in your position was an Outstanding Firm for equality and offered the entire headquarters and went after them aggressively and condemned their radical ideas. I dont think theres anything wrong with that mr. Jasser are you saying that its all right if someone advocates a position that is extreme or violent or anger batter bowl with the republican doctrine of america or our Constitutional Order that they should be challenged on those beliefs . Isnt that the honestly we debate issues in this country . I believe there is nothing that would melt away muslim bigotry more than for americans to see muslims stepped to the plate and counter theocracy that once they see that we are the most essential head of the sphere in this battle and the sea are muslim reform unit that has 50 principles are where we condemn all concept of the Islamic Jihad we condemn the sharia state we condemn the caliphate. We senator grimm mosque in Muslim Organization in america and gotten crickets that. Why . Big is the media academic and government are composedly giving muslims a pass and weighing in about whether american constitutionalism and i hear president bushs administration what he said post 2011 is completely different. The arab awakening has at least a need to counter the regimes that have fixed the narrative in the west so to compare what we did pre2011 postarab awakening is just. Mr. Jasser i remember during the civil rights stays national tv networks, maybe they were atheists. Maybe they were jewish or catholic or whatever going into churches in the south taking a camera in the faith sticking it camera of a base of a preacher asking them does a black person worship in your church, yes or no. This is a difficult question it was. Tough but i thought in retrospect that kind of challenge cause people to realize the position was untenable. You could not be defended in public debate and he went away essentially. Is that the kind of challenge you think about to be made to extremist groups within the islamic rubric . We need to challenge the slums to realize that violent comes from nonviolent. Violent misogyny evolves from nonviolent misogyny so when the president goes to mosque with the islamic a baltimore. It had a sermon which was a screed against or the year pray that our Reform Movement publicizes that why is he going to this mosque in and appear to be a bigotry of low expectations is somehow we dont hold thousands accountable to the same values we do everybody else in the west and in this country but at the National Prayer breakfast the christians in the jewish and others but when it comes to muslims the mosques is the in the 13th century comes to womens rights, and other rights of the issue is treat us with tough love hold us accountable in the bigotry that exists in america will melt away because they will see us as essential. The islamic world and the muslim religion are great religion. Millions of people, millions of people follow the doctrine and dont believe in these things. Villages and cities throughout the world where this occurs and i dont see anything wrong with challenging that doctrine. Mr. Mccarthy they say this is not islam but the people who practice this ideological violent terrorist idea of belief they are practicing islam. Tonight they certainly do and they have a lot of basis for doing so. With guard regard to ms. Khera i think there is some theological issues here. If you believe your religion calls for certain things you may not believe that but some do and this causes part of the problem does it not mr. Mccarthy . I think the biggest problem you have is the imputation of the betrayed and bias to fact. When i was a prosecutor doing these cases it was simply a fact that there are commands to violence in the scripture, that they are mediated and exploited by people like the blind sheikh and they inspire young muslims to commit violence. Now, the way he interpreted those verses is certainly not the only way to interpret them and a lot of the heroic work that dot or jasser does is to precisely try to either correct but may be translation errors or could to contextualize these verses but are we really going to put our heads in the sand about whether they are there . That is what we are doing. I wish it were not so common that there are people that can find verses within the koran that justifies violence and we can say its not religious if we want to but they think it is. Mr. Haney, i understood that sharia law, is it a part of the carranza and is it a call to sharia law part of the carranza . I did know that it was. Speak up. Is called the dean. There are several names for it dean means law or religion. Sharia is derived from a combination of the corona itself the hadith sayings and actions of muhammad and also what you might call tradition all combined together into one consensus its a very important concept that sharia is the driving force of the Global Islamic Community and simultaneously the Global Islamic Movement. What we see are expressions or tactics, ways to implement or i should say ways to achieve the goal of implementing sharia law, tactical ways all way in the spectrum of what is called allah promotion or petition to join islam of do what we call jihad another operative verbs that means water or push away. Those groups are more frequent in the koran than just hot sofa we are going to have an honest discussion about the strategy and tactics of the Global Islamic Movement like several of you have said here than what we really need to do is to address with honesty and courage the verbs in the meanings of the worse if we have been constantly told to ignore or purge away and what they actually mean and how they drive the individuals that we have seen like syed farook and Tashfeen Malik and other people like that the tsarnaev brothers. You are very calm push prosecutor. I recall the manson trial. They proved the ideology the motivating factors for the manson group and why they did the murders. That is what you did in your case, did you not . You identified and proved as part of your case the motive based on what they interpreted their faith to mean. I respectfully find it mindboggling to have a conversation in which it suggested that we need to turn a blind eye to ideology when you actually get into the four corners of the trial. Most of the charges that we bring which are essentially conspiracy cases in almost every single instance. The evidence they say we should look at for purposes of the investigation is the evidence that the prosecutor has to admit that the trial in order to prove wills will fund is an order to prove intent and knowledge. We are actually saying in investigating people who might potentially commit a terrorist attack we have to close our eyes and ideology but if we are lucky enough to indict them at some point and we get them to trial than we can put into evidence all the things we can look at when we investigate. How crazy is that . Well just briefly, if this nation cannot admit everybody would like to come here to immigrate to america and there are Muslim Advocates. Is it appropriate to ask questions about how they interpret it or not . Is it unconstitutional protection that the United States cannot inquire to see who might be the most successful immigrant . I dont think theres any constitutional impediment to it. That said during the 1960s into the early 80s there was a lot of statutory work that was done supportive of the proposition that we need to be worried about ideology, that is not not a cause of trigger a violent action and therefore we are only going to look at violent action when we decide whether to ring people and are not. It was not constitutionally necessary to do that and i think a lot of that was caused by the fact that the Supreme Court in the 60s and the 70s gave expanded First Amendment protect protect protection expanded or radical as some. Whatever you think about that we are now in the threat environment where its not a hypothetical question about whetereher than ideology that triggers mass murder attacks. We are seeing it. Mr. Chairman thank you and i appreciate the hearing and we are being spasm id call it with within islam that experts have testified that we are in committees. So many radical ideas leading to these kinds of attacks and is its going to take a long time for us to see that and maybe think him bent on assault to be firm, defend their country but at the same time think deeply about the right way to handle it religion is something we all in this country respect, the freedom of religion. Thank you senator sessions. Mr. Chairman can i respond to something that was said earlier . We are going to recognize senator durbin. Thank you very much mr. Chairman. I listened to senator sessions questions and i think he is moving us to where we had to be. Mr. Cohen when the organization would have to the ku klux klan you are where that symbol was a flaming cross and that they believed someh they were espousing the teachings of christ. They were purifying the race, yes. These race perfect haitians ended up in hateful and violent murderous tactics against africanamericans. That was the way they did business. Catholics and jewish. They were a hate filled group that used a flaming cross in your purse by christianity for justification. Westboro Baptist Church sends demonstrators to the funerals of our fallen soldiers. Ive seen them and theyll annoy and they put up these hateful signs that say the soldier died excessive and because of marriage. Their they believe is part of their christian belief. I think the point that has been made over and over by three members of this panel is it is a mistake for us to call the ku klux klan a radical christian were to call Westboro Baptist radical for students. They are extreme with their violent and their radical and unacceptable but it reflects on all of us. If you use a term that is so broad in its application. No one is arguing mr. Mccarthy that someone who is in dangerous ideology should ever be allowed to emigrate the Presumptive Republican nominee donald trump is make in that distinction my friends. He wants to exclude all muslim immigrants that to me is where he is gone way beyond the need to protecting america and the territory which i hope this country will never ever embraced its interesting to me the last week we had a in the Florida Senate on terrorism in the debate got down to the question as to whether or not we should be wearing or careful when a suspected terrorist wants to buy an assault weapon, a firearm and many of the said lets err on the side of safety. Unfortunately only a republicans would join senator collins another republican when she suggested that maybe we keep the guns out of their hands until we find out whether they are truly shouldnt be on the nofly list. We couldnt carry the day so the presumption when it came to 2nd amendment was give them the gun and ask questions later. Now we have this hearing and instead of dealing with suspected terrorists we are dealing with a suspect religion. Thats where i think we have crossed the line. If theyre those who would abuse their religious beliefs threaten others and threaten america for goodness sakes use of all of our power to protect us. The notion that we would call for radical christians, radical islam in such and therefore have the right answer to america safe is fundamentally wrong. I have 20 disagreements on george w. Bush on the spectrum of issues but i still marvel at the fact that after we all we went through on 9 11 he would say to america quote all americas most recognized in the face of terror is not the true face of islam. Its a faith that is made brothers and sisters based upon love not hate. Thank you president george w. Bush. For reminding us of that terrible moment in history who the real enemies were. They want people of islamic faith and they want those with extremist views like the ku klux klan and like hatemongers of westboro Baptist Church. That resident at that moment history got it right. We have got to get it right today because we are being called unlike many generations have in the past to respond to e