I think it really depends upon the situation as it evolves and that is why i think that we have to look at the conditions and provide our best advice on what it is that we need to sustain and what we need to have an embassybased approach in order to continue and accomplish our objectives. I appreciate both of your testimony you have both said makes a lot of and, how we could possibly make the announcement from the administration of exactly how many people are going to be at that embassy where they are going to see, giving the important to help us avoid another attack on our country and when we dont even know what the conditions will be at the time. Its really hard to come up with a word of for it or it but it is certainly not a military base that decision based on the announcement of our president. So im glad to hear both of you say that you will have to hear what the conditions are on the ground. I hope that our president will be the conditions on the ground so that we can continue to perform this Important Mission of protecting our country and ensuring that we have this intelligence that has helped us to prevent future attacks after 9 11 in this country. So i thank you. Thank you, senator. Thank you, mr. Chairman. I want to thank all of you and your families here today for their sacrifice. And he put in place the preservation of the force and Family Program to try to help with that. And so what i want to find out is do you plan on continuing that and do you see it as a success, do you see anything that is more effective or avenues that can be part of this. I absolutely do continue to apply the same level of effort as much as i can in this problem and this includes every potential resource to understand the problem and identify ways to the we can deal with this for our service members. And so i think that we have a great deal of respect with preserving this. One thing of after to do is the things you learn from this program if you see any of it and you say this has been really successful if you would continue to share that with all of the other commands it would be very helpful. And you continue to give us your unvarnished opinion Going Forward and where there might be glitch is and, you know, if the plan is not coming together, let us know. The general has been great in saying this is where we are with the metrics and heres where the problems are and we continue to count on you for that. Absolutely. I know you well, keeping an eye on this is one of the distressing things to happen in iraq including so many of the real generals were replaced by folks who have been shipped or whatever and i think that cause significant damage to the iraqi army. And we want to make sure the same thing doesnt happen enough in the end. So you could continue to let us know, as you look at the force Getting Better and getting worse, leadership, those kinds of things. And i know that you will keep an eye on it and it would be helpful to us because it will telesis something is starting to side with her. The general put in the place working hard at the afghan officers that they had their own academy. And so they look their very hard. And i absolutely will continue to work that hard. One of the things that we sell recently if it is somewhat unique in recent times and the Pakistan Army has moved people out of their to the nature of whether they have gone out of their is still up for discussion. Anytime we can do this, anytime we can work with Pakistan Committee will continue to work as operations inside the borders and coordinate those on the afghan side, that is a win. We try to do that in 2010 and 2011. This is is the first post in a long time. And i hope that this will be easy and being a general term that if they clean up some of the mess on their side, there may be less. In the sofa agreement, you will continue to tell them how much the troops will remain, but if we dont have this agreement, it completely changes the whole discussion and i trust that your primary efforts will talk about how critical this is. But all of this lines up with it. I think that they want to make sure that they have continued coalition and they know the consequences and so i will continue to work without. Thank you. One of the concerns that i have is that whole region, that there are also americans fighting with them over there. And my fear is that they take a look back to our country and they can be people who can be against us, i wonder your efforts that would coordinate with Homeland Security. And we stopped there before comes to the homeland. In the Homeland Security, we will have to deal with the Homeland Security if we fail at that. And there is much of it coming up across the border. We have seen this coming in through the straits of lorna and other areas and we have had testimony that theres not near enough equipment and men and women and personnel and things needed to try to stop that. So would you give us that in a perfect world, how to make a change in this area for how to beef up our efforts. It requires the government approach that includes all of the inner agency is, as well as close cooperation between the pacific Northern Command and Southern Command in order to work to close any of those teams that are out there between the geographic commanders in the commanders in the interagency process in order to do this particular flow. And so we have to go to the far reaches at our borders and we have to go to the root of the problems and try to extend it. Sumac thank you so much, and i hope you keep an eye on that effort as well. Thank you, senator fisher. Thank you, mr. Chairman. First of all, i would like to thank you gentlemen with the Service Personnel that you represent and we are truly dedicating our lives to the people of the country and keeping the faith, thank you so much. And in your written comments, you speak about the greatest threat to the governments of syria and iraq. And their connections are growing throughout north africa. And this thing, if it doesnt improve significantly, and when they become a threat to the United States . Thank you. They threaten some of our regional interest in this poses a very significant problem not only for us. The admiral spoke about this, you have this in order to make the assessment on what is happening in iraq and how we are going to address the . Another we are looking at all the options that are out there and we are starting to know those within the time of eight Tipping Point where it may be too late to even take advantage of some of those options are there or not. First off, i dont think its too late to do anything right now. You may be aware that we are completing the second phase here in iraq. And so we have been working with the Iraqi Security service and partners there down in the baghdad area to the places we can ensure what the situation on the ground is and what their capabilities are and then what options we might have to assist this in the future. I heard a comment made recently that perhaps we should take this machiavellian approach and let the militias and the terrorist fight each other to stand back and let our enemies fight each other. Author risk to that . In general i think that there is a risk to try to resolve themselves. And do you think that would be an option that the United States should look out with regards to iraq remapped. I think that we should look at all options that might be available to us. And how we can address this particular problem. Im sure that we have had an opportunity to look at everything before reaching the conclusions. Thank you so much. The president has requested 5 billion for the partnership fund. So what Top Priorities would you like to see this accomplish . I think they can certainly help us with some of our Partnership Activities and i think it should also help us getting the Additional Resources to enable our partners, which i think would be very helpful in enabling our partners in a variety of different ways. Have you see special Operations Forces evolving, giving the demand and they touched on the pressures that you are looking at and you have mentioned to senator ayotte about the size of the force be with look at including in afghanistan. Do you see the special ops evolving and i will discuss you how to we see them evolving. And i think it is important as we continue to focus on some of the work that has been done by the admiral. And strengthen this with other military partners out there and so we do have dependable relationships and partners out there that we can work with and depend upon to accomplish a broader effort. So i do think it is important. And we have those who share interests. I would ask you, general, we are going to be conducting these operations outside afghanistan, how effective without me. Throughout the region as well, if you would lose all of your forces within the country. I think that that would be very challenging. And certainly there are lots of things that we can look at and i think that it would be challenging to try to address problems in one country from other regions and other countries. And this includes how we best use this in a manner that gives us the most effect. And your thoughts on that as well . If youre talking about afghanistan and how it involves the relationship of pakistan come in the capability and i look forward to the work that we are doing to provide those assessments on the resources that would be required for the mission. I appreciate this on having this stability and also to be able to make decisions based upon and thank you, mr. Chairman. Senator mccaskill. Thank you. Are the smugglers moving through mexico with impunity right now im at. I would say the effect of the Mexican Government and the armed forces are not as effective as they could be whether or not they are trying to interdict them and i do not have any specifics on that, but i seriously doubt it. I think it is important once you confirm that you have a handle on this because it appears to me and it is the same enemy that we have been funding for as long as i have been in the United States. So at a certain point in time we have a metric on how successful the money we have been pouring into mexico has actually been in enabling the basics. And its obvious that buses and trains are loaded with thousands of children from miles through mexico. Mean, clearly Something Like this shows that they dont give a dam. Date control areas that give them the freedom to do what youre saying. I think that that is certainly a priority and if we have a neighbor to the south that has decided this is acceptable, it is acceptable that threatens our national security. And i look at our quaint strategies and if you look there was a belief that if we did the political piece it would be successful than the political piece did not turn out so well. And the economic piece is an abject failure because we spent hundreds of billions of dollars building of a structure and facilities that are in crumbles and inoperable. So is there any Movement Among her level of leadership to take another look at the strategy and i have just been highlighting this and we have the highway and we are so focused on our mission of the weed is good landers on. And theres a lot of functioning capabilities of the government or military and it appears to me that we have put a bandaid on a cancer and that it really is not something that is being successful and is it time to take another look at the strategy. What i would tell you is that the military continues to take a look at all of its tactics and to the and procedures to make sure that we are flexible to always see what the next fight would be and we always have to be caught and sent and so this really isnt just the military piece, but a whole approach and so we have to bring in the entire inner agency to continue to learn the lessons and apply the resources to make sure we can continue to sustain. And that includes whatever we are building capacity in the country and it is a whole government peace and not just a military this. And they have to put in this effort as well. So the leadership makes a difference and we have to work with that hard. We have a lot of this with infrastructure in iraq and there are major league infrastructures in afghanistan and some of the situations, they were doing those things. And we will not be able to see that and there is a percentage of projects that you will inherit that we can have any oversight and i watched and analyzed that i think many of them are going to come to pass again in afghanistan and i wonder if we will do the same thing again. I dont want to see what is happening in afghanistan and iraq was much further along in terms of penning some kind of central ability and i admire all of you so much and im so proud of our military and what you are capable of. And i think that you are being given an Impossible Task in afghanistan in light of what the reality is in that country in terms of them realizing the investment that we hope that we would realize in the money we spent on building things for them. I would only add that i think its an inherit responsibility for all of us who are intellectually challenging ourselves and our concepts and the way we think about the missions that we are given and i do think that we have to include our way work. My current level of leadership and i look forward to working within the general purpose forces. This includes what has worked and what hasnt and why the failures have occurred but works against you in terms of acknowledging that there could be something there that we are trying to do under the circumstances, it just doesnt make sense russert tried. So thank you both. Thank you, mr. Chairman. And thank you so much. I have been there and i know what happens is they came about. This is the crown jewel of criminal justice in that part of the world and theres a very moderate facility and they would not be putting this without a threat to afghanistan and they will be secured with these cases. And this is very important with the insurgency. And so they have to believe at times and they will get killed or captured. We have to understand theyre likely to go to jail. So without that, its very hard to defeat these guys. Does that make sense you . Yes, and the pastor has been saturated that has created the conditions to allow organizations. You agree with that . Just. The forces have safe haven in afghanistans leadership. Is that correct . That is correct. That we have had at least one attack generated by the Pakistan Taliban and then filled in new york and the bond and go off in times square, but apparently is that still accurate, do you think . Many organizations that want to do harm to the homeland, every day the great military services other individuals. Many of those organizations have talked about work into the afghan pakistan regions as well. We have provided this. Especially if we do these things as we desire to do. I think it is possible as lets just lay out the plan for the American People. By the end of this, its 9800, the current plan and the proposal right now is half of that, probably 5500. What percentage of Counterterrorism Forces would exist today . How many forces, special forces we have in afghanistan today . And today we are roughly 300 plus. I think 7000 is the total effort there and that includes the efforts with that. And how many do we expect to have the current plan. Well, lets look at what we could have. We are down to the Security Cooperation forces. That is the current plan. And how many corporations forces to be way behind in iraq . I believe that the rough number is in the neighborhood of 200 or 250. Lets say it is a thousand in afghanistan. But with their chief mission be . Achieve mission is an example and so we have that number. So who fills the not what we go through this. A rate on a scale, the ability be of the pakistani and afghan army to cooperate together including counterterrorism capabilities. Im sorry, i havent looked at it in those terms. And i agree with the general on this. We cant rely on the afghan and pakistani element from the regenerated al qaeda task force. And it seems to me that the line of defense is going to vanish if something doesnt change. Is that a fair statement . Following your knowledge, that would be a fair statement. This includes the likelihood of Afghanistan Holding together. Decanted through this process and they have done this political power and i think it narrows really and increases the risk. I couldnt agree with you more. As to the makeup of the Security Forces, about 45 are on the east and what percentage of the leadership in the Security Forces were . Is it disproportionately large . I dont have an exact percentage but i would think it is probably low. Benefit has been holding strong. And that is considering what they could revert to to go to the trouble filiation. Thank you, senator graham. Thank you for being here, gentlemen. How would you describe that level right now with the taliban and a commie network . Level directed against them or inside afghanistan . Both. That includes the general interagency and the threat to the homeland because they keep the pressure on the networks are continue to be mitigated and we havent had another 9 11 type of attack because people havent been trying to do that. This includes being on the ground since april to give you a better sense of this. If i understand your testimony the threat has been mitigated because of the pressure and if that is right that raises an obvious question which it will be reduced in 2017 and thats nothing. And so if that plan is carried out, what will be our capabilities to engage in the operations and defeat that. We have other technologies and as i stated earlier, we continue to work hard at building the capacity for the Afghan Forces who have a better force and we are doing that now continuing to work on that. And we do have a threat at that point in time still and we will have to come up with a different strategy to be able to keep that thread and mitigate that threat. In your personal judgment and this includes effective counterterrorism with a true presence . I am not the commander on the ground, sir. Im very comfortable where we are today based on what we know in the great capacity and if confirmed, it continues to be one of the missions that we have and i will make sure that we understand resources that are wired to carry out that mission. And the allies situation is quite real. Does this include what we have needs for dealing with this process . If confirmed, im going to have to learn more about that particular mission and threat. Whats shifted to different aspect. And including what would this play given the crisis in this includes those doing the best they possibly can and we are in support to them and currently providing them instruction support and surveillance support and transportation support and surveillance support. We can continue doing this in order to beef it up, but that is the limit of our authority at this time. Given over 50,000 unaccompanied children have illegally entered the country this year do you think it is clear do you think think that they are aware of our own abilities. I would have to assume that they are. We were raised to find this would situation, whether is was the smuggling of the children whether it is drugs or weapons, those things can be exploited to tourists as well. It gives us the surveillance the ability to detect it should it occur would you agree that the coyotes and the cartels are smuggling in all these little boys and little girls and these are hardened violent criminal organizations . Yes, absolutely. It would give them the freedom to move whatever they would like to do for money. In your judgment. Yes, sir, the department of defense is providing the Law Enforcement agency great deal of equipment and it has come back from iraq and will come back from afghanistan. The magnitude of the threat of the southwest border in particular continues to grow. And this includes the people crossing the southwest corner. Nearly 50,000 of them were from countries other than mexico. And so many were apprehended along the border. And i think that from the numbers that you described, the magnitude that it came from the border south of mexico, that is why it is important working with our partner nations downer work on the condition to prevent the flow of their people a voice into their boilers and other border is not a longterm commitment that our nation has make if we work very closely. Thank you, adam hall, thank you generalist. You so much, senator. I didnt get a chance, but i wanted to talk to you about the detainees in march of 2012 and then in an effort to reduce tensions we signed another in march of 2013 and it established the afghan review board and that process has resulted in a release of hundreds of detainees on our focuses. And so i believe that the government shares the belief that this is flagrant disregard of the principles outlined. And so do you have any ideas as to how we can end this that we can stop this release of these detainees who have attacked our military . Thank you for the question. I have not looked at it in those terms. This includes with the authorities that would be required to ensure that we could put some controls on that. So there is concern with this way coming back into the fight not something that we have do continue to work with the Afghan Government on. And provide them the evidence that we have in the wrongdoing and we will continue to advise this as well. We are in limbo about who will be the country and whether or not are significant. So i think that there would be a dramatic impact if we are capturing those that they open the doors a day later and let them out. And i know we share this to help make sure that the situation does not become the norm. Thank you, maam. Thank you. And your great support on this committee, deservedly so, and we stand adjourned. [inaudible conversations] coming up next on newsmakers, cochair of the progressive office, he talks about immigration and the Current Situation involving minors along the u. S. And mexico border. Watch the interview at 10 00 a. M. And 6 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan. [applause] in the defense of liberty, there is no vice areas. [applause] [applause] thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. [applause] the moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue. Senator goldwaters acceptance speech at the 1964 Republican National convention this weekend on American History tvs real america at 4 00 p. M. Eastern on cspan3. Coming up next, this unique experience in prison and his experiences. The house Judiciary Task force considers changes to the prosecution and sympathies of criminals. And later a congressional thi ceremony for the League Swedish diplomat. Joining us from our new yorkn studio isew the former newark c, police commissioner. Officer former nominee to be the head of the department of homelandice security. What happened . Noe after my nomination in 2004, i basically declined and withdrew my name from consideration and i had talked about hiring an illegal tomigrant to pay the nanny andld that p resulted in pain for a fiveyear investigative process. So i guess in 2009 i plead guilty to a felony is and i was sentenced to 48 months in federal prison and i spent three years and 11 days in a minimum Security Federal prison camp. T what was that experience like reign. It was the same as it is for anyone out. Th the deprivation of freedom is po more profound than anyone knowss especially with someone who has been abi lawabiding citizen and has been a lawenforcement officer and i have a 35 year impeccable career up until thatt point. And then be sent to prison. Al including those with their perid constitutional right for any. Lack of time and you couldas diu imagine. So it was extremely difficult t and it was such ahe difficult thing and its probably just ase difficult today as it is than what the collateral consequence of so many convictions. And someone something that no one wants to go to. One or some of those collateral consequences the talk about . First and foremost i dontnke think the general public and Even Congress is part of thosea that make these laws and i dont think they understand the consequences of a conviction and of a felony conviction in what it does to an individual and we live in a world where we would ifomoters say that america is. The land of second chances. Regardless of that felony and e a cot is, there is pretty much no second chance, you are a convicted felon for the rest of your naturalat life. And i was with some young men in prison, very young men that for the first time they were15 sentenced to 10 years and if they live to be 100 and 20 and never had another problem as long as they lived, they were to suffer the consequences for the rest of their lives and the loss of civil and constitutional right and they will have faculty difficulties in obtaining a rea job. T and this includes getting educational assistance. Ion and i and this includes the National Association of criminal defense conseque programs. B this is a total number of alt and i need people to understand that there are people that long in prison and that have beeng there a long time and we put people in prison today, many of which need to go to prison to learn their lesson and it could have been punished by an nfternative sentence, be at homo confinement or house arrest, Community Service, being fined n severe penalty for once we have something to prison and theye, e prisonmentin the collateral consequence will last forever. And i dont think anybody necessarily understand that. Did you ever have the spot when you are a head of the department of corrections . No. You know what happens at the top , it is your job who donttreet necessarily think what happens to them in the long run, i put people in prison for a long you do time. T will twenty years, 30 years, some for life. Except these were really bad people that tried to kill me and i seized tons of cocaine from them and millions of drug proceeds, and then i went to prison is at least young men who have minor drug offenses and i met young men trying to buy their first home or mortgage anumstation for years in prison. But i never even really thought about those types of arcumstances. We have evolved into a society where we now take a number of regulatory issues in decline and im not saying that these individuals shouldnt be held accountable. Make hing it somewhere. But to make him a convicted felon i was with a man who had been talking about this and he is now 55 and he owned his own business for the last or years. E he lost his life and his family was on public assistance because he got too many fish. Finally they turned him into a convicted on in the prime yearsu of his life and he now cant work and he cant get a job. A he pays no tax is and he cant take care of his family. And so i think that there is a way to address those issues including having them and the eu economies and i dont get it. What would you like to seepan done and out what level oflevel government . I think the mandatory minimus has to either repeal this overall completely. Cited. Fo and im not the only one saying it. The attorney general himself has done it former attorney general, and this is not a democratic issue or a republican issue but coming from both sides of the house. Where the legal abortions basically saying that these things have to be addressed. And they are crippling our economy. And so they have to be addressed and i think that we also have to confinement and ives to incarceration so this includes fines and penalties and Community Service and we put a number of professionals in ways that we really needed. And we have doctors that have been collected and charged with financ conviction with some kinds of Financial Crime relating to thet experiences and we have pretensions and the permissions that could be teaching our Community College but nothing. Nn making them go and teach at a h Community College and we have kids that really need ant education and they dont have the money to get it and there are a number of things you can do alternatively to punish people without the cost of incarceration is about 20,000 per year than the reality is justifies making 150,000 per year, is a cost to you as the taxpayer is about 600,000 or 30 in prison. So why not find him 150,000 and suspended license and do something. But to lose his contribution to society forever, for the rest oh his life and i just think it is absurd. We have set aside our last aside today for former inmates. We would like to hear from you u heavy share your experience. Call us at the number below, this is the number. Ik we will flash the other numbers up on the screen as well. Queenie, gore had. Hello, i am calling becausehr time, they are convicted of lot of people are part of this and this includes getting. Job and be able to work and take care of that family. Are still ao and once they do this, they are a convicted felon the rest of their life and its hard for them to get a job. Thank you. Lets get a response. D. Here i i agree totally and here is the problem. You never finished paying your debt to society and the people that make these laws, we will stand before an audience and never ends. You pay that debt forever for the rest of your life. R and there is no cop point and you now have been made whole and yo you have done your prison time you have done your probationve n time and even gone beyond that and you are now a model citizen and we are going to expunge a record and give you back your life and your constitutional and civil rights and that doesnt happen. It doesnt happen. The problem is you pay that debm forever. What our the punishment is supposed to fit the crime and i am confident that this is not were Founding Fathers wanted when they created pe constitution. The peonal and the personal and professionalat annihilation of someone who made a mistake and i have to agree with that. Your we have babar republican line. Please go ahead. This is right on. Et up i was in prison for 15 years ann i helped to set this up with that freedom fund. And we found here is what has happened. On severe building a company who bids on this and they stuff them full of prisoners. It is 2. 7 of the World Population and we have 25 of the worlds prisoners. And so your guess is right on. Its about getting into the, ane system and you can take it out unless you know so i have forgiveness for my own and he was one of the first 17 thatland landed ined afghanistan between president clinton and they want. To to be there. Let lets get a response and hear from bernard. Here is the thing. Billion ar its an 80 billiondollar per year industry. Sts out so there is and theres a lot of industry out there who wants asr many people as possible. And so i present on this one point. You e young men and women are coming into the system and you are creating an enormous amount of criticism here is why. When he sentenced him to 10 years in prison and during that. Time, it is a training groundd for criminality and we learned how to manipulate and gamble and most horrifically fight. Disagreements are usually in extremely verbal competitionsphl and physical competitions. Subeditor education improvement. And then we let them out to go back into society and they cant get public assistance foromebode caucation and they cant get a place to live a must to have somebody on the outside. So at what point do they basically give up . Than they have to revert and do something to take care of their family. And that puts him right back into the system. So they need an Education Program and we put tons ofpeople people in t their, people that e addicted to drugs, they dontutl need prison, but they needs. Treatment. And they belong in treatmentre y centers. They need to be taken care ofals not sitting in a jail cell. And all this stuff leads to its and the numbers continue to turn over and one last thing on the description, i think that we are about 5 of the worlds population and we are 25 andhed how is that possible. It pos how is it possible that we have more prisoners than russia or china two it is the insanity of the system that is unsustainable change. T. To sore legislators have to address it at some reasonable cripplest our society and our economy. Twet this is a tweet that we have gotten. It its funny how things change when the shoe is on the other foot. That is exactly right. Its an education and heres the issue. Sons i one of the reasons that i amm talking to you in one of the reasons i testified before the congress and i talk about this y constantly is because theage the general public doesnt understand the damage that the e system does. They just dont. Thand, if if you havent experienced it firsthand and if you havent been there and if you havent outlived this with some personal oror otherse, yoly member friend, you have no idea. A, anda the reason i know that is because i ran two of the largest Law Enforcement organizations iw this country. The nypd and i ran the new york city jurisdiction system. And i didnt know half of what i know today. So people can criticize or they can agree but i have now seeneee the system full circle. And i think the system is broke. And we have flaws and failuresng in those crucifying childrent when we have to do something about it. Out ts on the Prison Policy Initiative group, currently locked up on ai daytoday basis in thn e u. S. , state prisons contain the most in this includes about 12 Million People per year cycling through the system. So please go ahead. Good morning, i want to thanu you for coming on and sharing a. Er story and trying to make the change. So i want to say thank you for that. About 4pe so i read somewhere where they spend about 40,000 per inmate do the taxpayers or government or both and it seems its insensitive for the sticky being built and thats a lot of money and so gives them an incentiveat to keep locking up more and i me agnosed peoplewi a second common is thai was diagnosed with a mentalh me do wh thend i had never had to deal with the criminal or the Justice System, but since having drugrsave dealt with several things and i believe that like you said drug users need treatment, people with Mental Illness n need treatment and thk you. I understand what he ist he s sa saying. Issue, you run depending where you are at, and depending on the system, you could say that an inmate costs 100,000 a year depending on where they are being held. The bottom line is State Government across the country, it cannot sustain these costs. That is why you see a lot of State Governments across the United States that are looking at alternatives to incarceration. They are looking at criminal justice reform. They are looking at reducing mandatory minimums. They are looking at the overall criminal Justice Systems in an intent to reduce bed space, prison population, and i have to give credit to the state of , some ofvernor perry other states out west right on time states crime states that are really addressing criminal justice reform. For whatever reason, a lot of this has to do with economics. You cannot sustain these budgets. You only have so much money in the budget and once you run out of money, no one is coming to your aid, so you have to do something about it. In the federal system in 1980, there were 25,000 prisoners in the United States federal system. It is 216,000, i think it is 218,000. Not one year since 1980 has there been a reduction in the bed space. It has increased every year right up to this year. The federal government prints money. They keep putting money into it, and at some point the American People have to realize it is an Economic Cost that is written in them, therdening american taxpayer, and i do not see this being sustained. I think at some point in time it has to be addressed. I give the attorney general and in tryingent credit to do something about it. I just hope the members of congress will get on board, cut across partyion, lines, and do what has to be done. Right now you have senator booker from the state of new jersey, rand paul, and a number of others that are truly looking at criminal justice and prison reform. I hope others jump on board and do it needs to be done to get the laws changed. 9 00 a. M. This morning, cspan will be covering the hearing by the house judiciary Overcriminalization Task force live on cspan three today and it is about the need for criminal code reform and the over federal is a in federal criminal law. 9 00 a. M. , cspan3. Next is mark from fort lauderdale, florida calling in. Hi, mark. Caller hi, how are you doing . Host good. Caller thank you for cspan and mr. Kerik for bringing this to the front. I called and the inmate called in on the inmate line because i served some time myself. You had a tweet that stole my thunder the shoe is on the other foot. Mr. Kerik, as you are climbing the ladder, and even when you reached the top of the food chain, you always thought that permitted prisoners and criminals as earth more time, that they were getting off to easy deserved more time, and they were getting off too easy, and now i like to see that you see how rough things can be for people that fall into the system. When i was in the bureau of prisons, i met some fallen politicians, some judges, and they all say the same thing, if only i knew then what i knew now. Host why were you in prison . Ler bank fraud and host bank fraud. Host were you guilty . Caller i thought i was not, but the judge told me i was. Host thank you. Bernard kerik. Guest if someone told me before you willrison that meet great men, great fathers, great businessman, good professionals, doctors, lawyers, that are really good people, honestly, i would , thataughed whatever are really good people, honestly, i would have laughed. At all. Not have agreed i have to say i went to prison. I was house with lawyers. I was housed with doctors. I was housed with other professionals that make mistakes , and i want to go back to your caller. When you asked him was he guilty, he did not think he was, the judge thought he was. There are people in prison today that had no criminal intent. Evenw men that did not know they did anything wrong. The days of criminal intent are pretty much over. Toyou not have to intend commit a crime in the federal system, and you can wind up in federal systems, which is pretty scary. At the end of the day, they made a mistake. They did something wrong, but they paid the price. They are good family people. Workers. Rd i met some really, really hard workers. All i am saying is once they have done their time, once they have paid their price, and paid theiro society, paid debt to society, give them back their constitutional and civil rights. Make them whole again. That is all i am asking because today as it stands, it does not happen. Also apply to violent criminals who have paid their debt to society should that also apply to violent criminals who have also paid their debt to society . Guest i think they have to be looked at. Like i said earlier, there are people that do bad things that belong in prison. Somebody pays their debt to society. At some point in time, when does that debt end . For violence, you know, it is something that has to be looked at. My biggest concern is the nonviolent prisoners. Today, well, as of int year, you had 27,000 men minimum security prison camps in the federal system. That means they are not violent, because they could not be there if they were, and they are doing under 10 years in prison. These men can go back into society. They can work. They can pay taxes. They can take care of their families, but in reality we prevent them from doing that, and that is one of my principal concerns. Rake is calling from new jersey on our democrat line is calling from new jersey on our democrat line. Go ahead. Aller good morning mr. Kerik i appreciate you. I am pretty sure you are rehabilitated and are a cool dude. Askedstion was actually by that tweet. If i hadtion basically the power to become president of the United States, and i would give you back your position, would you look into other cases right now, especially talking about the case 13 years ago about a young man named Dominick Suter who basically ran an israeli moving System Company out of new jersey, and look into his businesses as well . Would you, as commissioner, reopen that case . They were held in a new york city prison for a couple of months. Does that ring a bell to you. To you . Host commissioner . Guest no. The name does not signed sound familiar. Host lets take the question and broaden it a little bit have you talk to your former colleagues about your reform efforts, and have you met any of the people that you put in jail since you have been out . Guest no. I have not met anyone that i put in prison, but i have talked to a number of my colleagues, and peter, i have to tell you, initially, when we have these somersations, and i think of my best conversations, actually, were in prison. A number of my former colleagues, people that worked for me keep in mind, in the new York City Police department i had 55,000 men and women that worked for me, and in the new York City Department of corrections i had 13,000. So, it is a pretty big group of people, many of which came to prison to see me, and during the course of our conversation, when we talked about the criminal Justice System, i thought initially they thought i was losing my mind until we sit around that visiting room and we look around the room and i start identifying people and what they have done. This guy, is a commercial fisherman and he caught too many fish. They see him with his kids, his , andchildren, his family then they get to talk to his family when they leave. They see a young man, 19, 20 10, 15ld, who is doing years, for a lowlevel drug offense, and they talk to his family and they get to understand the devastation that it is caused his family. Or, they see a businessman or an doingey that is in prison a year and a day a 75yearold attorney doing a year and a day. He is 75 years old. What is the sense in sentencing him . Put him in home confinement. I do not think anyone comprehends time. This is prosecutors, judges, cops, me nobody understands what it is like to live by a clock that is standing still. No one. Until you have done it. Me, and they have said, especially the press they love to jazz this, just this up in the media. You went to a minimumsecurity fed. A country club, club my answer is find the finest hotel you can find. In manhattan you have the saint regis, four seasons. Take one of those hotels, walk into their finest suite, go into the bathroom, lock yourself in that bathroom for a year and tell me how luxurious it is. The deprivation of freedom is not luxurious, and i do not give a dam where you are at. I do not care what situation you are housed under. I do not care what your facility is like. You cannot talk your kids in and not, say prayers with them, visit them at school, or take them to a school event then it is pretty horrific, especially for someone that for their entire life has abided by the law. It is horrifying. For my think colleagues, they did not get it. They did not understand it until they were physically there and got to see it, and a number of them today look at it very differently. Host person. California. You are on with Bernard Kerik. Caller thank you, commissioner kerik. I appreciate your valuable input into the country via cspan. Guest thank you. And as i was arrested had and as a private investigator for 23 years, i was arrested for a nonviolent or according to what the laws were at the time, serve five years served five years of a sentence. I was plea bargained. The reality is we have to understand these problems begin attorneylocal district and their efforts to make convictions, whether they are valid or not. Unfortunately, we have a local police force and District Attorney who are looking at would like you to give me some input, or give the nation some input on the problems we are experiencing with the efforts to prosecute at the lowest level, table i. Thank you. Host carson, what were you convicted of, and were you guilty . Caller i was convicted in a plea bargain of assault with fidelity Deadly Weapon on a police officer. Host do you think you are guilty . Caller i absolutely was not guilty, but by the dynamics of our local system as commissioner kerik knows, we have a necessity to plea bargain. I was originally arrested for nine felonies and three pleameanors, but had to bargain as they were throwing up 25 years in my face. Bear in mind that had never been arrested in my entire life until i was 52 years of age. Host how did that change your life . Caller it changed it profoundly, as commissioner kerik indicated. You are not done once you have served your sentence. You have a permanent stigma attached to you, and even at age 60 now, it is impossible for me to get meaningful employment. Host thank you, sir. Bernard kerik . I listen, i understand what he is saying. This system has to be fixed. I want to touch on the prosecutor thing and the Law Enforcement thing in general. Nobody is more proLaw Enforcement than i am, even with all i have been through. People violate the law, they need to be held accountable. Flawed. System is on the prosecutorial lens, i have worked personally, i have worked with, i think, some of the most incredible, phenomenal prosecutors, both at county level, and a federal level. I was assigned to the new york force. K i think i worked with some of the best prosecutors in this country, but you have to keep in mind, whether it is a local county prosecutor or a federal prosecutor, their performance evaluation is based on three things. One, the conviction rate. Two, the amount of time someone is sentenced. Three, the positive press they bring to their office. Those are the things a are judged on their performance evaluations are they still on the. That has a lot to on that. That has a lot to do with fairness and prosecution. A public defender a federal public defender is not based in judged on their acquittals. They are judged by how many cases they can get off of the desk. The system is flawed. We need to have oversight of prosecutors who violate the laws. Real oversight. They need to be held accountable. It is not all of them. Them, butmost of there are prosecutors in this violatetoday that do the laws to enforce them, and a to be held accountable. Real accountability. I think if we had that, we would see less of those problems. From mineral wells, texas, on our public line republican line. , did i mr. Kerik understand your crime was not paying Social Security taxes on an illegal alien that you had hired . Guest yes, sir. Some of them, yeah. That is amazing that that could be a felony. I never would have believed that it guest believed that. Guest take my word for it. Caller it sounds like somebody up in our had a personal grudge against you to prosecute you for that when there are politicians taking bribes that are never prosecuted. For example, senator Robert Torres celli took bribes. The person who bribed him, i understand, was prosecuted, but the senator got off. So, somebody wanted to take care of him, but the criminal was briber, the brider not the person bribed. Host lets leave it there. Bernard kerik, do politics play a role in conviction . Guest they are not supposed to, but the reality is they do. There are selective prosecutions all of the time in this country, and you would have to be blind to say there is not. There is. Be it politically selective, personally selective, it happens. It is human nature, almost. It should not happen, but it does, and that is another arena of accountability that should be looked at. That isut it is the way we operate. You know, it happens. To,know, it is not supposed but it does, and anyone that says it does not, or anyone who thinks it does not, open your eyes and take another look. Host just another few minutes with our guest. Derek from their moronic, new area from new york new york. Waser about 22 years ago i beat up by police, charged with reckless endangerment. I had money and was able to do my stuff out and i was the witness to a murderer, and due to the fact i was a witness to a murder they ended up dropping some of these charges, but i still have the felony on my record. New york city for this, was awarded six figures, but the police were never put in jail for what they had done to me. Police lie. I do not understand why this goes on. Police lie and they do not get charge. Over six paid me figures for what happened new york city paid me over six figures for what happened to me, but Nothing Happened to the police. Host Bernard Kerik, can you speak to that issue in general . Guest i cannot speak to that specific case because i do not know about it, but to say police are not held accountable that is not true. They are held accountable in many circumstances. I cannot talk to his specific issue, but if you pick up the new york post, or the new york daily news, several times a month there are Police Officers that are held accountable for either ethical breaches or some in activity whether it is assault, a drugrelated issue, no matter what the case is, police are held accountable. In new york city, in general, you have the manhattan d. A. Office, or the local District Attorneys office that looks at these issues. You have the civilian Complaint Review board that will look at an assault issue like that. Then, quite often, you have the federal government that will come in and look at an incident like that where an officer is involved in assault to see if there is any federal civil violations. Do things slip through the . Through the cracks . Of course, the police are held accountable when they are caught. Host mark, alaska. Go ahead. Caller thank you. Thank you to the guest for his honesty and taking this cause up because it is a scourge on our nation, and it is an embarrassment. First of all, he has made some excellent points. The prison lobby is getting built up because of the private prison industry. That is one of the first things we need to eliminate. Tois our duty as citizens incarcerate people, and it is not something that we can farm out to a corporation. Once that happens, we have a lobby, and we know how powerful the lobby industry is. I would also like to say that the presumptive, one mandatory or mandatory sentencing, came about in the 1980s, when we i guess we lacked a way to manipulate the voting base, so politicians would talk about being tough on crime, and that byhow they got elected instilling all of us with fear. Host mark, we are running out of time. Lets get a comment from commissioner kerik on the privatization issue. Guest privatization is doable in certain circumstances, in lowerlevel facilities, but i would not i would never sign a contract with a private Corrections Company that had a mandate to have that contract for 20 years and i would have to guarantee them a 90 occupancy rate. This is not a hotel. Anyone that would sign a contract guaranteeing an occupancy rate in the facility you would have to be doing something illegal, unconstitutional to sign that contract. Would sign a private contract with a private organization if they could guarantee me a reduction in recidivism create programs, have programs that reduces recidivism. Guarantee me that, and i will think about signing the contract. Your view on the Death Penalty, and has a changed . My view on the Death Penalty is the same as it was before someone who kills someone with malice, and they are convicted, personally, i have no objection to the Death Penalty. What i do have an issue with today, and i would feel and extremely uncomfortable with i would have to see incredible, incredible evidence to prove the person was guilty. We have seen way too many cases where there has been there have been prosecutorial misconduct in some of these cases that have been overturned, and that scares me. I am for the Death Penalty, but i think there has to be guarantees within the system that where there is oversight on the prosecutors that prosecute these cases to ensure that convicted of a Death Penalty case that they are really guilty. What is your advice for what is yourhost advice for exfelons that do not have your resources or felons that do not have your resources . Guest i could tell you, peter, i have tremendous resources, and i am not doing tremendously better than any of them. They have to stay focused, trying to get beyond all of the negativity and all of the stigma , and, you know, do whatever they have to do to stay out of prison. Do not go back. And it is not as easy as it sounds. Especially for go ahead. Host go ahead and finish, sir. Guest it is not as easy as it sounds, especially for guys that are uneducated and we have people that come out of prison that are uneducated, illiterate, and they will have an enormous problem finding jobs basic, lowlevel jobs. It is an extremely difficult circumstance. Host if people are interested in following you in this work, wheres the best place for them to go . Guest Bernard Kerik on [inaudible conversations] good morning. The task force here will come to order without objection is jerry is declaring restorer recess it is a time. We welcome our what witness is here today and looked at the chair of the full committee to introduce the first witness. Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much for holding this hearing and for allowing me the honor for introducing my United States attorney who has ben in virginia the past several years and someone who is very interested not only enforcement of law but Public Policy so i am delighted to have him here today to testify. With several other witnesses from West Virginia , u. S. District judge receiving new dame. And before attending. [laughter] before attending law school employed as the secondary Education Teacher and we welcome you. And. It is from West Virginia. Okay. Thank you. George h. W. Bush 1982 and served as chief judge march 2001 through march march 2008 and she serves as chair of the prologue committee. Welcome. Next is honorable on dash who is no stranger to this committee and we welcome you back again serving as chair to the psittacine commission serving as the district judge for massachusetts since 1994 having been nominated for president clinton and with the District Court surveying as the Massachusetts Superior Court in been served as a federal magistrate judge. And serving as staff counsel tuz said judiciary also serving as a law clerk to the late Justice Potter of Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court then became division and held a position as the United States attorney. And receiving herb be a from Radcliffe College and j. D. From harvard she is the sisterinlaw of the man whose office was down the hall for several years steve serving as chief of staff. Mr. Chairman if i might, i shortchange my District Attorney and i never want to do that by leaving out his credentials from the university of virginia in University School of law answer does of law clerk to the court of appeals and spent two years as a litigation associate in San Francisco in addition to practicing law he is taught several class is at the school of law and has lectured frequently at the National Advocacy center m prior to becoming the United States attorney both in the Western District of columbia and has prosecuted a Broad Spectrum of criminal matters. We have ellis to virginia air graduates in being the federal defenders and at that time serving as the ad jong professor at nyu school of law. And in 2008 teaching its universe in alabama 2010 to 2011 and professor at stanford law school. Q0c and is an adjunct professor at than what you. M. Paul the hilton for the Eastern District of virginia possible law school. Were expecting our only vote to attend 15 00 a. M. Sunday the statements will be made a part of the record. Her. We appreciate to appear at todays hearing last august and the American Bar Association house of delegates my boss spoke of his desire to forge a more just society to reform and strengthen the american Justice System and said it is our duty to identify those areas to improve to advance the cause of justice and on behalf of the attorneygeneral of want to thank the members for your pursuit your work has contributed and will continue significantly as improvements to make it more fair and efficient with all the issues the task force has explored we address issues with regulatory crimes in criminal code reform issues which is the major focus of the task force i will answer questions on those today but with the Opening Statement using my limited time to focus on the crucial need to improve federal sentencing in correctional policies. As recognized[u this strategy have included the greatly expanded use of single incarceration has skyrocketed then nearly one out of 100 adults in america is in prison or jail at five for 10 times higher than western europe for other democracies. It is expensive and unsustainable current mainstay in federal government spent 74 billion per year on incarceration depending on incarceration is onethird of the overall operating budget compared at 25 in 2000 so it has displaced other crucial Public Safety investments including for investigation and prosecution and prevention and intervention with a Law Enforcement agencies and in response devoted to incarceration and the attorney general has launched a smart on a Crime Initiative that began last year. It requires all federal prosecutors of whom i work every day to be sure were devoting resources to the most deserving of a federal criminal charge. And also augments support for state and local Law Enforcement as well as funding of the entry programs the goal is to maintain the ability mevacor function while pursuing others to community safety. As a Sentencing Practices for the lowlevel drug offenders 217,000 people barely have served time in the drugrelated offenses. Is monitoring policies to control spending to ensure that people convicted of certain lowlevel crimes will face sentences appropriate to their conduct. To address that congressional action is necessary. The full committee should take of sentencing reform legid0 the legislation introduced from this murder sentencing act with statutory penalties for certain non violent offenders to allow billions of dollars to be reallocated to other priorities with the effectiveness of the federal sentencing system. And at that state level they have begun to transform sentencing across the country changes of state laws have demonstrated it is possible to spend less money on incarceration without sacrificing Public Safety since they havent acted legislation. Into focus of the Law Enforcement priorities committed to an approach to deter crime and wishing they could be treated equal under the law. We urge you to seize this opportunity to make the American People say. Thank you. At this time recognize the judge for her Opening Statement. Thank you for inviting me to testify today. It is an honor to appear before you and alongside such distinguished witnesses especially my good friend and colleague. I testified today on behalf of the judicial conference of the United States the policy making body for the federal judiciary the Conference Committee that i chair oversees the Pretrial Services system to review legislation and other issues relating to the administration of criminal law. Mike committee has watched the progress with keen interest it hasoiv submitted letters for the record and i thank you for accommodating those. I offer for your consideration several strategies for the of pressing problems in the federal system to curb over federalization reforming minimum mandatory and amending the guidelines are discussed at length but at the outset i do wish to emphasize what is under consideration front end and back and reform legislation and clemency and reform to the sentencing guidelines will increase federal judiciary workload in congressman issa pride provide support that is not the 1997 Staffing Levels of the resources to shoulder the additional burdens. It will result in further delays for constituents and could have Public Safety consequences. With that federalization. With that limited jurisdiction of federalism. Added is the conferences longstanding position that could ignite portion not be prosecuted in the state courts but to this end the conference has identified five types of crimes that are appropriate for federal prosecution