present, quickly pledged to support these local efforts in order to ensure full recovery. he created the hurricane sandy rebuilding task force to maximize cabinet level ordination in support of the work to rebuild this region. i've been enormously proud to share this effort as we work to achieve two basic goals. one, to get the assistance you all thought so hard to make a reality to communities as quickly as possible, to meet the immediate needs and second to ensure the region rebuild stronger and smarter than before so it's better equipped for future storms. quickly and effectively. as you know, in january, working with all of you in the congress, state leaders fought tirelessly to get $50 billion in funding inlemental order to aid victims of the storm. it's been a priority to get these dollars into communities quickly and responsibly as possible. that's why we thought it was critical to include several the supplemental that facilitated more efficient spending of these dollars. i want to particularly call out senator lan landrieu for all ofr .elp and assistance on this a few examples. giving hud the authority to duplicative environmental reviews. as a result of these and other measures, we made great progress number of fronts. more than 230,000 people in small businesses have received assistance from fema, the small business administration, labor.artment of more than 99% of sandy-related national flood insurance policy totaling more tha than $8 million have been paid filed policyholders who claims. 97% of public beaches in the affected region were opened by memorial day 2013, sending a strong message that the shore was ready for business. when you include the national flood insurance program, the administration has nearly $40 billion in funding for recipients with $13.5 billion of this already paid out. hud in particular, has allocat allocated $10 billion in community development block grants including an allocation that took place within eight the sandye signing of supplemental into law. this it represented the fastest the allocation following signing of an appropriations bill. so relief is getting to communities. said, weu have all know it can never be fast enough. that's why we've been creative work with ways to local partners to expedite the rebuilding process. businessudes the small administration's work to accelerate application processing times which has ok's during -- abouto 42 days, a drop of 1/3. the use of a streamlined permit and review process for complex, infrastructure projects that's based on a model which is implementationed times by 51%. one example, cutting three to five years off the projects like the tappan zee bridge. of foreclosure prevention policies in disaster-effected areas making stay in homes at such a critical time in their lives. and the establishment of a minimum flood risk reduction standard across the for majorvernment sandy rebuilding projects, representing the first time a standardovernment-wide has been set that accounts for the effects of rising sea levels we'll moving forward, continue to look for new ways to remove unnecessary barriers and headaches, ensuring that the that flow into the region are put into use as quickly and efficiently as possible. our other goal, rebuilding stronger and smarter so that the region is better prepared to withstand future storms. on august 19, the taskforce released our rebuilding strategy included 69on which recommendingions to do just that. it included steps to harden our producer grid and our fuel supply chain to address the sawge and gas lines we during sandy and steps to help families and small businesses times. in these new the strategy also identifies ways to leverage additional private funds to support infrastructure projects. investing in projects that will make our communities more resilient is vital to their safety. it's also good for our economy. as senator guillen brand point out, we know for every dollar we spend, we save $4 in avoided costs in future storms. recommendation in this strategy has a detailed implementation plan, and i and my department will be accountable to the region to you, to see them through. and we will stay at it for as takes knowing that eventually we'll emerge stronger and more vibrant than ever. earlier,ioned following sandy, it was clear that the road to recovery would long and difficult. we made significant progress. families have gotten back on their feet, businesses reped o, communities turning the page and looking to the future. that much more work needs to be done. all of us in the obama administration are committed to local partners and with all of you to continue to get assistance to those in the rebuilding, ensure the region is better prepared to withstand future extreme weather improve ourwork to recovery efforts across the nation. these are goals i look forward this committee on and i look forward to answering your questions today. thank you. >> thank you very much. person i have on the list is has served as a deputy dot since 2009 before becoming the deputy secretary he served twice as a secretary of the maryland of transportation. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you, chairman. and members of the subcommittee. it's a pleasure to be here today to highlight the department of innsportation's role assisting the communities that were devastated by hurricane sandy a year ago. hit, thehurricane damage it caused didn't just take a tragic human toll it also blow to thestating regional transportation system which is the life blood of the region's economy. the aviation side, three of the busiest airports in the country flights were effected. the highway system, as well, suffered significant damage. stands apart is this historic storm triggered the worst public transit natural disaster in the history of the united states. disaster,e to this congress passed the disaster radio he leaf appropriations act included $12.4 billion in aassistance for transportation .rograms it's worth noting that assistance was reduced b to$6,750,000,000 due requestions taking - taking -- $650 million, due to sequestration. program proy relief prosed by president obama in 2011, later authorized by our map 21.tation bill this emergency relief program for transit was in place for about 30 days before the hit.ter in addition to helping transit repairs,make immediate the program also supports mitigation activities that will improve resiliency and help transit infrastructure resist future.storms in the disaster relief appropriations funding also went to fix the transportation network as well, roads and bridges, restore amtrak service, mentioned, repair airport facilities at newark, guardia and -- la j.f.k. to date, the department of transportation allocated nearly $7 billion for repairs and resiliency efforts in response to sandy. we've learned a lot from the hurricane experience that will help us respond to future even events. andt, a coordinated efficient federal response is essential. president obama's hurricane rebuilding taskforce has helped all the federal agencies involved work together to best possible outcomes for the communities effected by the storm. donovan's leadership has been important in moving forward. second, hurricane sandy and recent disasters underscore the nation's vulnerability to extreme weather climatender current conditions. that's why one of our top priorities moving forward is to existingotect transportation infrastructure and equipment from the impact of future natural disasters it just makes sense if we're going to spend money rebuilding transportation, let's build it last. we'll soon be issuing a notice forunding availability capital projects that will reduce the risk of damage from future disasters in the region impacted by hurricane sandy. we're going to do that on a competitive basis. these investments in resiliency will help reduce the need for any future recovery efforts. and has been previously pointed out, research has shown every on actionst by fema to reduce disaster loss now saves the nation almost $4 in impacts. we're hoping to realize similar americanngs for the taxpayer by ensuring that our transportation infrastructure is futureo withstand storms. however, i must caution the need investment far exceeds the available funding. emergency has only relief funds available for hurricane sandy recovery efforts and nothing nationwide beyond that. leaves us without any ability at the department to address our next crisis, emergenciesture occurring outside this region. much of my own career has been at the state and local level. i know firsthand how important respond quickly and effectively. i strongly encourage congress to appropriate funds so that when the next disaster strikes and takes public transportation offline, we'll be in a position to respond immediately. i thank the subcommittee for meg t -- inviting me to testify. thank you. >> thank you very much. mr. craigpeaker is fugate who was confirmed for the fema administration -- in 2009 after serving as the director of the florida division of emergency management. managed the largest federal disaster response in florida history as four major hurricanes impacted the state. thank you very much. good to sigh again. chairman.ou, mr. senators. secretary donovan laid out a lot of the numbers. to come back to what you have done to set the stage for what we were able to do as a federal government and then our next steps. withoing to start something that you're not hearing a lot about, but i think it's important we talk about. the continuous support and fulling for -- funding for state and local and grants and emergency management grants building the capability at the and local level to manage the impacts of these types of disasters. the federal, government could not have done its job if our state and local partners weren't able to do theirs. so this is one thanks for the investment over time specifically since 9/11, those investments are paying off in capability and resiliency our communities have against all hairs yards. the -- hazards. we would not have been prepared to respond without the formation i doubt very much i would be here testifying. that law substantially changed fema mission was, requirements of the person that has chosen to lead the organization, as well as the wait untilred to not states are overwhelmed before the federal government can mobilize. this put us in the position under the president's leadership and playssources before any state was hit by the storm, before we knew how devastating this was going to be. again, those tools set the stage for the response and support of local government. but the other part of that, which we oftentimes talk about the supplemental, overshadows something i think is fundamental, a change to the stafford act. and that was the sandy recovery act.vement many of the issues that we still had, that became impediments to recovery. probably one of my best examples debris.n we were actually increasing the cost of removing debris because and policy that said if you use your folks and your public works department to we're not going to reimburse you for those costs. only their overtime. to do hire a contractor that we'll pay you the full cost share on that. these tools that we began to implement. we have used them in disasters post. these were not sandy specific, but sandy became the catalyst of we would be better stewards of getting money out effectively and state local governments to rebuild faster tohout losing the ability maintain the fiduciary responsibility of ensuring that the dollars go towards the intended to go. we have used these not only in but in some of these that we were allowed to go to previous disasters, where we've to use estimating tools in vermont to did a big challenging project there. do somebeen able to things that quite honestly they gaves made sense, but you us the tools. fewalthough it was only a tribes impacted, this came after sovereignhink for our federally recognized tribes also something that was very unheralded. finally gave federally recognized tribal governments the recognition of their sovereignty that no longer requires them to go through a state to request declarations. that programented after the law was signed. the first tribal government that the eastern band cherokee. we did not wait for the rules to catch up. we did not wait for our to catch up. we implemented the law as intended and have successfully declarationsster at the request of tribal governments. we have a lot of work to do. only -- we tend to look at one-year marks. but i knew going in this was multi-year recover rix think senator schumer said it right, that the first year is initial stepsse where you see a lot of progress in the beginning and then it starts to slow down. because now we're starting to the rebuilding. and from the president's direction on down, what we want rebuild for is we the future and not the past. that we can make these improvements and make investments that we may spend a the front more in end, but we assure the delivery of critical services and future.ucture in the and then lastly, senator theinez, again, we agree administration's position on the reauthorization of flood insurance programs, we needed to affordability, but we found that in the legislation past, we to allowave the tools us to use that to build affordability o before the place.es took so, again, we look forward to working with congress to get a allows us not to keep kicking the can down the road but address affordability for live in their homes but also ensure we're not the same way, putting people and future generations at risk. thank you. chairman, martinez was my former colleague from florida. >> sorry, senator mendez. >> we're both cuban but we don't all look the same. >> yes. sorry. >> great. thank you very much. >> let me also say i really withciate the work you did the tribes. that's a huge opportunity. thank you for that. ist person i have ms. jo-ellen darcy, assistant secretary of the army civil primaryich is supervision over the u.s. army corps of engineers. prior to her appointment, ms. darcy served as the advisor to the senate finance committee conservation,rest energy issues. good to sigh again. thank you. you, senator. thank you for the opportunity today to testify on the corps's continued working on the recovery from hurricane sandy. the federal support during the response to sandy was unprecedent. the corps was part of an interagency team to include governmentscal which provided technical assistance and rapid response activities across the impacted areas. the disaster relief appropriations act of 2013 withded the corps $5.35 billion to address damages caused by hurricane sandy. tos money's being used reduce future flood risk and increase the long-term the coastalty of ecosystem and communities while reducing the economic costs and with largeiated floods and storms. the corps has made significant progress in the year since hurricane sandy. and in the time since the passage of the appropriations bill. the corps's hurricane sandy recovery program has three major components. first, it's our near-term component that supports repaircy operations and and restoration of previously constructed corps projects along dredging federal navigation channel and repair of corps-operated structures. secondly, investigations component that expedites the completion of ongoing studies at federal expense and funds the north atlantic coast comprehensive study. our construction component rehabilitates, repairs, and constructs projects to reduce future flood and storm damage risk in smarter and more .ustainable ways as part of the near-term component, the corps started restoration ofd existing projects along the atlantic coast in february of to3 and is scheduled conclude these actions by the fall of 2014. to date, the corps has placed approximately 12 million cubic yards of sand to repair dunes workerms and will continue to restore them to their original designed conditions. obligatedcorps has almost $390 million to restore damage projects. the total 33 projects in this phase, seven are completely have been -- have awarded contracts, construction contracts, and four are in the pre-award stage. near-term efforts also include addressing the storm's impacts navigation infrastructure. the corps's operations and maintenance work began in of 2013, and most projects are scheduled for completion by the spring of 2015. fiscal year 2013, the corps had obligated over this work withr 35 projects completed and 28 in construction. for the investigations component, the corps is using funding to expedite completion of 18 flood and storm damage reduction studies in the northeast that were underway occurred. $20 million of the investigation funding is for the comprehensive will assess 31,000 miles of the north atlantic coastline bringing and coastalerts planning, engineering and science from more than 90 academic, and non-governmental entities. the comprehensive study team has developed a draft framework currently under review. and the results of the study, we think, will inform our future erst.ng -- efforts. the corps was also directed to conduct a performance evaluation study to evaluate the effectiveness of completed corps projects during hurricane sandy to include summary recommendations for future improvements. i signed the transmittal of this this morning. so it should be here on the hill by now. [laughter] the third component of the program will construct projects authorizedreviously but not constructed at the time fall.ricane sandy's land potential projects identified for implementation following the investigation process and withins that will fall our continuing authorities program. expediteddesign, and reevaluations are underway for the 18 previously authorized but constructed projects and the corps anticipates construction will begin in early 2014. the corps expects to complete construction working on roughly half of these flood-risk projects by mid 2015. of the identified continuing projects, massachusetts, connecticut, new york, new jersey delaware, areland, and virginia currently scheduled to receive beach erosion and coastal storm damage risk reduction projects. and we expect 70% of this work by 2016.pleted there will always be residual ink for americans who live coastal regions. expected changes in sea level otherextreme weather, and impacts are likely to increase the risks fating these areas. -- facing these areas. together with noah and fema, the corps of engineers developed a helpevel rise tool to communities anticipate the influence of sea level rise. will use base flood elevation maps from fema, the coastal of noaah.pabilities and a sea level rise calculator engineers.rps of this tool yesterday was recognized by the president and awarded the green government climate change champion award. ourhe collaboration between agencies as a result of sandy has already produced a future-looking sustainability and tool that we can all use throughout the federal government. in addition, noaah and the corps of engineers are working moreher to help rebuild resilient and sustainable coastal communities. while working on post sandy york andefforts in new new jersey know ya and the corps set systems, rebuilding principles in order to promote a unified strategy for activities coast.oring the collaborative efforts on all levels continue to explore and that reducelution risk from coastal storms such as appropriate land use planning, non-structural solutions, and well communicated evacuation planning. mr. chairman, and members of the committee, i thank you for the opportunity and look forward to questions. >> thank you very much. our next speaker is ms. kathleen thai, chair of the recovery, accountability, and transparency board while continuing herr inspector general for the department of education. the board has been charged with dollars beingal spent on the sandy recovery. thank you for being here. >> thank you very much. mr. chairman, senators, i want the opportunity to appear before you today. as chair of the recovery board, i will be speaking to you about the board's roll and the inrsight of funds expended support of hurricane sandry recovery efforts. the boards with a created in february 2009 ooze part of the recovery act. it consists of 12 inspectors its mission to s to provide transparency of the use of recovery funds and to prevent and detect fraud, waste and abuse. we meet this mission by managing reporting.gov website through which recipients of recovery funds report and by ndingaying that spending in her mission in unique ways a markup like web site recovery.gov. we also developed the recovery operation center or what we call the rock as a center data lending service to support fraud detection and prevention. iraq has the ability to aggregate and analyze large complex volumes of data to screen for potential risk or identify targets and provide deeper investigative information in the support of audits and investigations of prosecutions. while the board was originally due to sunset on september 30 of this year the sandy legislation extended the lord through september 2015 with additional duties for the board to develop and use our resources and oversight mechanisms to detect and remediate fraud waste and abuse in funds related to hurricane sandy. our first aid efforts related to hurricane sandy a have focused on applying the techniques and processes developed by the rock to examine the spending primarily working with our i.t. partners. the coordination with the department of homeland security office of inspector general we conducted a review of 100 for entities that receive hurricane sandy debris removal contracts in 32 cities in new york and new jersey totaling over $329 million. among the particular risk indicators according to dhs oig firms who had federal and state tax liens once a previously been less on the federal list of suspended for debarred vittert -- bidders and filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy. in addition to this work we have provided assistance to dhs,, oig in its investigations of other fema hurricane sandy public assistance grants and igs with sandy worked. in the state of rhode island we undertook a proactive analysis of the potential hurricane sandy contractors against her databases that would show potential risks and reported information back to that state. in addition to her work in the rock we are using your web site federal transparency.gov to attempt to collectively display what information is available in hurricane sandy's ending. we visually displayed hurricane sandy contracts from the federal procurement data system and agency award information as well as links to fema spending by state hurricane sandy web sites. to our recovery.gov web sites to be able to better use the functionalities of that web theb site. since commencing her work on her insanity mission we have identified a series of challenges that he continued to face. the first is attaining act reading complete hurricane sandy spending data. with no mandated centralize reporting such as we had an recovery access to standardize data is limited. while the procurement data system in usa spending have information related to hurricane sandy each has its limitations. for example on usa spending hurricane sandy grants and loans lacked the unique identifier making it problematic to accurately extract and analyze hurricane sandy awards. in addition the lack of some recipient data will further complicate our work. even the types of hurricane sandy grants expected to be awarded prime recipients of these awards oftentimes will we be state or municipality but historically the maturity of fraud occurs below this level by entities performing actual work. that concludes my testimony. thank you for the opportunity to discuss the activities of the bordanelle of the border now look forward to answering any questions. >> thank you very much for being our last speaker. before i mention you enter title i want to make sure for the record we invited representatives from new york state and new jersey state government but he declined the invitation. deputy mayor of mr. holloway overseas number of offices including the police fire department and office of risk management. i was going to see mayor michael bloomberg and i'm not sure what it is today but we are glad you are here and we appreciated especially from a local perspective. >> thank you very much mr. chairman and just for clarification the inauguration is january 1 so i still have my job for the next 75 days and so does the mayor. >> okay very good. >> good afternoon mr. chairman and senators thank you for being here. thanks for the up her tendency to testify about the effectiveness of the federal aid for recovery from hurricane sandy. i want to begin by thanking on behalf of mayor limburg and all new yorkers for answering new york's call and from president obama and members of his cabinet including secretary donovan who is here today to entire agencies of the federal government particularly fema hud and army corps of engineers to assets including generators fueled food and many others to the billions of dollars in recovery aid congress made available through the disaster relief appropriations act of 2013 what i will refer to as the sandy recovery bill. the federal government has been there for an eric city since well before sandy made landfall on the new jersey coast last october 29. sandy was the worst natural disaster to strike the city and it took the lives of 44 new yorkers caused damage to public infrastructure and private property and triggered an enormous and ongoing public and private response. .. are underway now and will continue for the next 12 to 18 city's plan to protect and mitigate against the thatte-related impacts have become an increasingly life.nt part of everyday i'll start with the pre and immediate after sandy aid. our partnership with federal agencies began well before sandy moved up the east coast to the united states and took that left ward hook that would subject new york city to the storm's most devastating impacts. the city implemented its coastal storm plan, fema and the national weather service were us at the city's emergency operations center. and i was there for days. attest we had much support. though the storm did tremendous damage, the prestorm evacuation largelyn was successful. and post storm surveys indicate that most new yorkers knew about the storm, knew if they lived in theynerable area, and knew should eyak kuwait -- evacuate. after storm together with fema enat new york national guard we removed an estimated 700,000 tons of storm debris through some of the contracts that mrs. tighe mentioned. -- and the than defense logistics agency. distributed more than 2.1 million meals ready to eat and canvassed more than 100,000 areas tos in affected distribute food and water, sanitary items, and make referrals to healthcare case services. as we reported to you when congress took up the act, the estimatedred an $19.5 billion of damages due to nearlyrm including $5 billion in direct recovery costs, hundreds of homes were totally destroyed, thousands of famesly, families displaced. given the density of new york city and the challenge of relocating, mayo mayor bloombere it a priority to get people back into their homes. the entire -- the creativity of craig fugate and his team at fema, we developed fema called the shelter and temporary essential power program step. in store city we called it rapid repairs. rapid repairs was an innovative approach to shelter that is based on a simple premise, the best temporary shelter is shelter. step enabled the city to hire contractors to make emergency hot water and power repairs to victims' own homes. and only 110 days since we went into the first home on november 21, the city was able on 11, 800 repairs homes and multifamily buildings. enabled roughly 54,000 new yorkers to return to their homes. and our survey data indicates that many -- most people, the vast majority, are back in their althoughnew york city many still need to recover. i have -- have additional do all federal dollars are accounted for properly -- and we want to make sure they're properly spent. it's been a priority for new beginning.ince the will we have established monitoring programs overseen by the department of investigation the housing initiatives we have undertaken. we will continue this rigorous oversight. can provide reporting at any level that the committee would like. while rapid repairs helped thousands of new yorkers to move back into their homes, that was the beginning. thousands of families need much done to make a full recovery and make their homes able to better withstand climatetorms and other impacts. thanks to 15.2, it was 16 toortunately due sequestration, of community developed block grant funding, leadership of shaun donovan and the federal recovery taskforce, we launched build it back, a $700 million program in june, with the city's first cdbg funding and the basic idea is to help homeowners continue that recovery. avs october 31, nearly 26,000 families have signed up for the and approximately 500 of those had homes that were destroyed. we have encouraged many new yorkers to seek this help and we're glad that they've done so. need and, the overall demand does exceed supplies. so we will need additional to make surend that the neediest get funding first.port we've prioritized by income level and those who are the most damaged. that between 55% and 60% of all of these applicants group our first priority and we're focusing on them. right now we're actually have 8,000d we people who are going through insurance verification processes, tier two environmental assessments, and secretary donovan's been very to streamlineing those processes to take advantage of the work the done.l government has at the homeowner and building level, the greatest remaining challenge for new yorkers is the affordability of flood insurance. members of this committee is well aware of it. the city commissioned an independent study that shows that only 35% of property owners the floodplain who were required to have flood insurance it.ally had premiums could go up for the new fema maps that are going to be o ing out from an average of $430 a year to $5,000 t to $10,000 a year. encouraged by the legislation working its way through to delay until affordability can be addressed in a real way. the greatest long-term challenge we face is protecting new yorkers over the term. at the same time that we are getting families back into their homes and repairing the city's principle structure, the mayor commissioned a study on the impacts that new york city will and the 2050's. the result is this plan, stronger, more resilient new york. i brought some extra copies for the committee. you can get it on our website, ncc.gov. it has initiatives to protect of york city's 520 miles coastline as well as critical infrastructure and service term.ks over the long sandy took out huge segments of the power grid. 95% of the telecommunications network in this lower manhattan. it took out hospital row on 1st closing down hospitals around the city. achievable, an affordable way to mitigate the most -- most of these impacts otherhe next big storm or climate event, whether it's a flood, downpours or drought, city.ew york and we are on track to complete 43 critical milestones before year.d of the the army corps of engineers is one of our most important partners in this effort. we estimate more tha than $1.5 million of cubic yards lost.d were 3 million more cubic yards are on the way. i have to say having worked with for the lasts seven years, the work that they're doing on the beach right i've ever fastest seen them operate without exception. summarize?ve you you're a little over the limit. >> sorry about that. >> don't worry. your statement will be included record. >> great. i just want to note, new york do all of this recovery alone. there are many areas over which no control.le or the power grid, telecommunications, and other critical networks. and so we want to work with congress, with additional we'll get tohat make sure we can implement this plan. clearly we have a long way to go and we'll need additional allocations. but if the support we've received from congress and the far is anyernment so indication, i'm confident we'll be able to meet those needs and better prepare new york for climate challenges come next. i'm happy to answer any questions. >> fantastic. thank you very much. to go to the ranking member and then i'll come back to me and then down to the other here.mbers that are senator paul? >> thank you. .hank you i grew up on the gulf coast, so i know about hurricanes from personal experience. of you tryingall to help in the aftermath of a .errible hurricane question for secretary donovan. do you think that sandy relief on tvought to be spent ads? >> i assume what you're referring to, senator is that aere has been an effort in number of states not just in well but historically as in many, many prior storms to economic development. we did see a small amount of cdbg money that was used for an tonomic development campaign encourage people back to the beaches. >> do you think it's a good idea or bad idea? we've --idence that >> spending funds on tv ads. >> the evidence that we have campaigns arehose effective in growing economic development in those areas. and, therefore, they actually reduce the cost of recovery to government. >> i don't think we need to argue about whether ads work. ads work. but do you think ads for sandy relief should be spent on tv ads? yes or no? idea, bad idea? >> as i said, we looked at the have seen itwe encourages economic development. >> my understanding is you all a waiveyou have to give tore do this. >> senator, if i could -- the community development block flexiblea very program. this is clearly within the legal of what congress has determined the program can be used for. waswe were -- it demonstrated to us that this could be an effective tool. and actually lower the cost of government. >> it gives a little bit of a black eye to something that going to a of it is good purpose. but i would say that if i were in your position, i would have tod no, we're not going spend ads. here's another problem. some of these ads people running their mug all over these ads while they're in the middle of a political campaign. jersey 25 million was spent on ads that included somebody running for political office. be ahink there might conflict of interest there? that's a real problem. people o who are trying to do good and trying to use taxpayers' money wisely, to see ourended money spent on political ads. that's just offensive. have ayork, you actually rule. they're not allowed to do it. sox new york did the same thing -- so new york did the object, butwhich i at least they didn't put someone's fate face on the ad ad their family. a bioad.like i think, yeah, come to new jersey but it's like, i don't want to pay for ads for advertising out of sandy relief fund it gives the whole thing a black eye. it isn't just sandy relief funds. we spent $684 million for obama care. well, it's a fairly contentious issue that was very partisan and one party. should we then get to spend taxpayer money advertising for political purposes? i don't think a penny of taxpayer money should go to advertising. advertising. here's the other criticism. outle appointed -- pointed it's taken a while for money to get to people. i think it was like one article homeownerouse or one in one instance coming for an department yet the money tv got through quickly. when people want to advertise and promote themselves, all of a sudden, bowed 3w5078, money -- boom, money is on tv it and so is their ad. just ask -- i know you want to do the right thing. not it's awhether or good idea. my understanding is it took a waiver from your office to use for this and that the tv ads had to be approved in that sense by your office. is, there have been community development grants given to something called a river festival in manhattan. i sure hope none of this money i don't to it and that find in and out a year the river festival got money for this. because the river festival is and of all kinds of great groovy things like performance art, bunch of people showing up their cell phone up playing the same songs. that would be a lot of fun. i would thereof attend. going toe we're not find sandy relief money went to stuff like that. as you said, community block anything. go to so i sure hope that someone is watching the taxpayers' dollar. all i have. thank you. >> thank you very much. secretary donovan, can i follow up? clear to make sure we're on one thing. the cdbg money, as a former mayor and i think now senator say the same thing, it can't be used for anything. there's limitations. correct? >> exactly correct. i did not say it could be used for anything. clear statutory purposes. sure thatd and made it did meet those purposes. if congress determines that development campaigns should not be included, then obviously that could be added to legislation. but currently they are within bounds of the law. >> let me get to a broader question. that -- i have a chart i've seen. i'm trying to analyze this. fema -- i think i know the answer, but i want to have at least a three agency people, other than fema, answer this. feelia, when i look at the money -- fema, when i look at the money of appropriated, obligated, expendeds, you're fairly high up there. you've moved the money out the there. the other is in the process or not as much in the percentages appropriated.at's so maybe if i could start with secretary donovan and then go to ie next two, just so understand why there's a lag -- i think i know the answer, but i hear thiske sure i for the record. i understand fema, because you've got to get in there. you don't have the luxury of years and bring the money after the fact. so help me understand that. because that's one of the a lot of that i get times when they see the reports and say -- where's the money being spent? i start with you? >> absolutely. importantis is a very point. one of the things that's critical to understand is by law is only allowed to be used on otherthat are not met by funding sources. >> so you're the last bucket. step are the third effectively for homeowners, for small businesses. we've seen very consistently that fema moved to make that first allocation. but only up to $30,000 can be used for homeowners, for examp example. and that takes care of the damage. you must make sure that your insurance company has paid their claim. and that process needs to happen. twothen only when those have been utilized can we then make cdbg available. why cdbg only began to pay out more recently. let me just give you one comparison. at the point where we are today, since the appropriation was made by congress, we are more than wereaster in sandy than we under katrina. we are more than 300% faster on cdbg.ere in ike so clearly we have improved the process. do?there things we could legislatively or within our own power to make it faster? yes. we are working on many of those things. but relatively speaking, i think we both have been faster and more careful in the way we're using cdbg money in this storm. i move -- i ask you, some of those ideas at some point legislatively or regulatory, you can share those with the committee at some point? so if there's things we could be asng to help in the future, we continue to improve that flow, that would be helpful. >> absolutely. theuld just compliment committee on having made many changes for sandy that have sped up spending already. >> very good i was going to ask you if i have time, i'll ask about the bridge issue and how used the techniques. i want to know more about that. >> mr. chairman, thanks. question.nt the transportation funding that was provided in the supplemental is being used for very specific transportation purposes. .nd i'll quickly go through the federal aviation administration with the direct appropriation is -- has repaired damage to the three major airports in the region. that is work that we've done contractorr with forces. the federal highway releasedation first money within hours of requests under what we call quick release authority to get the work rebuilding the highway system. then its emergency relief program operates on a reimbursable basis. done. work gets it's done by state or local governments. and the federal government reimburses at the end. that is a way that we protect and make sure that we get the it shouldilt the way be. flan this case with some resiliency for the future. transit program, we've made extensive use of what we call pre-award authority. specific transit projects as part of the sandy recovery have given pre-award authority where the transit agency will be building those facilities according to federal reimburseds and then as part of the process. that's a way to get project underway quickly and make sure get the product that the taxpayers deserve. >> very good. jo-ellen? i said in in my opening statement, we have several money. of some for investigations, which is ongoing studies, as well as our comprehensive study. spend-out rate is not as quick as would be for our emergency money. had,mergency money that we we've expended nearly most of our expenditures. completed in be the early part of next year. those were the repairs to our existing projects. repairing the sand dunes that had been devastated. third bucket is for construction. had 18're doing is we projects that were authorized but unconstructed. and some of those projects had several yearsd ago. so what we're doing now is looking at those projects to see whether in the light of climate change and sea level rise, whether those projects are still -- will be sustainable and resilient. so that study is the less expenditure. but once we go through that study process, once we do the engineereconstruction and design which is a smaller amount of money, once we get to the actual construction, that's outlays.see the >> one quick question. then i'm going to go to the members. five-minute to do rounds. ca srks i'm going to speak in a moment. i'm going to substitute myself back to my mayor days. the frustration always with the organizations was they would get this money and then you'd hope and pray it would at some pointou in some rational deliverable way. me your sense of how that workedded or could have givebeen main maybe later recommendations, how did that work? cdbg, i don't know if it went directly to state or local. tell me how that worked when money went to the state? it?you're there waiting for >> well in this case, mr. the funding -- new york city got its own direct allocation, which was great for .s the level of damage that we totained and our ability take those resources and really start working with them strong.ely is really so far the allocation that have come, there's a separate of newion for the state york and new york city has gotten its own allocations from it's beenective, great. >> that's worked? >> yes. >> let me stop there. i have additional questions but go to senator booker. >> senator from new york, who has a wonderful view of new jersey would like to go first go.use she has someplace to >> please. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you very much, senator booker. work you've all the done and every single one of you has done extraordinary work in terms of getting money flowing, getting large projects done, getting things up and rung. i appreciate it. from my i hear constituents is not good. i hear so many stories of rebuild,nts who can't who haven't gotten money. there's so much red tape that theirannot possibly find way through. so i want to ask each of you tape thats of red concern me that hopefully you can give me the road forward so let my constituents know that relief is possible. secretary donovan, this one seems very difficult. a number of my constituents were that becauseearn they accepted small business administration loans that they now ineligible for cdbg funding. i understand the need to make duplication in getting federal benefits and we want to protect against fraud, but -- and that is absolutely critical to the integrity of this program. but is there any distinction grantsn be made between and loans under the duplication of benefits regulations? and under the current federal regulations what are the options for sandy affected homeowners whoaccepted sba loans but believe they are at a financial disadvantage relative to homeowners who chose not to an sba loan? >> this is something your office raised with us and that others did. clear thatally made even if a homeowner or business been approved for a loan, sba were still eligible for assistance. so, in fact, it is not accurate are ineligible. >> but they had been told they're ineligible. is that something we can fix in of those communicating? >> let me be clear though. in cdbg, iting else is up to local communities to they use exactly how these funds. and one thing that we have encouraged communities to do, i want to be clear about what situation the homeowners you're talking to, if a if a small business can afford to repay a loan, we not think, and we've made clear, that communities should grants available because these are precious, limited dollars. encouragedve communities to do is to do an evaluation. and i have heard frustrations owners,iness homeowners. they say, well, somebody else is getting a grant, i'm getting a loan. is, if they can afford that grant -- i mean, that loan, then doencourage communities to an underwrite and evaluate that and to use grants only where a homeowner or a business cannot afford to repay a loan. the guidance that we've given. but we do leave flexibility for communities to make that determination. that youd appreciate make that guidance very clear when someone's looking at an sba loan. need to know what limitations they will be under in the future. it needs to be clearer. >> i agree there was confusion. we have absolutely worked with your office. raised this before, to that. clarify >> thank you. deputy mayor holloway, we've yoman's working on so many infrom a fra structure issues -- issues.ucture but there's still enormous challenges for homeowners. while fema caps the payment at very few people receive the full payout. their home might have been destroyed and their eligible for grant $8,000. so while we do our best, it's homeownersfor these to rebuild. and in fact, there are families that are still homeless a year unit. that'-- a year out. that's horrible. island,zy point, staton the rock aways, how quickly do get tonk cdgb money will homeowners? what percentage have received any? >> each of those areas having workedere many times and with particularly in breezy point the homeowners association, we have done a lot advance building. it's not only getting the money. it's being able to actually build. things in the ground. so we've been able to advance that. in terms of fema recovery that really is a case-by-case determination of ther assessment of what damage is. we now have 26,000 families that signed up for build it back. and we are in some stage of financial assessment for them. so as secretary donovan said, money is money of last resort, which means that you have to do an insurance verification, figure out whether they got any other fema money, any funds from any other sources. we're working closely with insurance companies. but we have 1400 request for verification from one company in particular that hadn't been met. this process,s in which we're not opposed to in any way because you do have to sure that the dollars are going to people who actually need it, but they do take time. i think we have had some cdbg money flow, but i will say is not satisfied that it's gotten to enough people yet. i think you will see -- i'm will see --u between now and the end of the year we will begin to ramp up to then ultimately thousands who will be getting funding. >> thank you. let me address some of the red mayor is probably experiencing with regard to administrator few gate. -- few gate. fema worked with these throats submit project worksheets which eligible for reimbursement. over the last year many of these project worksheets have still been paid. and these delays have cause the to theback -- setbacks projectprojects. do you know how many project worksheets fema is process and what the anticipated time frame around is?ng those >> it depends upon the project. toroject worksheet is a tool determine what's damaged and what's going to be needed to repairs. we have prioritized working with the state. some of the first projects we're be -- were going to be all debris and all of the emergency costs that were expended. oute were dollars that went the door immediately. so as we've been going through that, we have to have to demonstrate the cost so that we can satisfy the theirements that they did work. it was expended. and we reimbursed that. out most of the emphasis has been on the initial cost. there are some that were still either needing more documentation -- and if you got specifics, we'll working on them. the rebuilding piece of those project worksheets is going to take more time. get in the permanent work, we have several different tools we're trying to use to speed this process up. we still have to work through the processes to ensure is this over 50%, are we going to be abl to mitigate thi? and what is the longer term requirements to build. >> thank you. for assistant secretary darcy, obviously long island is so important. people are very concerned about the time it's taking for the stabilization projects within study to be started and to know when these emergency stabilization projects will be done. give a quick update about where we are on that process? to --n the fire island >> correct. >> we have begun doing some of wasemergency response which part of the rebuilding what was there. reviewingcurrently the fire island to montauk point as i mentioned. but un-- anrized authorize but unconstructed project. we have to look at that time to make sure it's in today's sea and climate change lens that we're look through and building to the right dimensions. we're committed to doing some expedited review processes for projects.se >> thank you very much, senator booker. we'll probably have time for another round if there's available questions. >> i just want to say, again, this you for holding hearing. i have a lot of affection for you even though we've only been days.gues for six [laughter] born from thefection is fact that you know what it's like to be a mayor and the difficulties you have grappling with the real issues on the every single day. people don't know what a secretary's number is. they don't know what a but theyr's number is know where you live. it's something that i take very, very seriously. i just want to say to the panel assembled, i'm grateful that you're here. here for six days. i still have that new senator smell, i'm told. i've had a chance to deal with the secretary on multiple occasion as mayor. think the obama administration has many stars and frankly none of them shine brighter than you do. the frustration my office already has is that we are ofling with lots and lots people who feel the sense of discontent, ill at ease, frustration. and a lot of stories. and we're unraveling them. assembled here has been incredible with my office. meeting look forward to with you and bringing a lot of the individual concerns that were not necessarily necessary go through here because you've made yourself so available. i'm sure, and i expect, i'm sure toan expect, the ability meet with all of you as i deal with what is a sense of urgency office. shaun, excuse me, secretary donovan -- thank you very much. you can call me cory. i know the best thing about you is that your head is with the atire state but you married new jerseyan, so your heart is with new jersey i'm sure. >> as your colleague says, i married up. >> yes. most exceptionally. office, and wey plan on spending time in the district over this next month meeting with a lot of families many of them don't know who to call. they're so frustrated. they don't feel like they can government anymore. they've gone through some of the .ed tape and gotten nowhere as we stood -- two points to make. hopingchairperson, i'm that we can do more of these as a recovery continues. this is to the going to be twoshed in a month, in months, in five months. but this is very good as awe move forward. on that, i will sell you one of the goals of this committee and another committee the rolesir is one of the senate should do more of is oversight so we're not waiting but sixisis to occur months from now or a year from now we're going is have these conversations baugh we want to keep track of how it's going. and if there's legislative and regulatory changes, we should be trying to do that in concert. the idea is to have oversight to bork with -- work with agencies improve what they're doing and make sure people are what they thought they were getting. >> my hope -- >> that shouldn't count geeps time -- against your time. i'm telling that to the staff, the clock holder. >> senate is a generous finding.on i'm >> he is new. >> the point is that sense of urgency you get from being a mayor is the sense of urg urgeny we're going to treat this with.m we have challenging counties on the western shore of new jersey who feel they've been left out of this equation, who feel like there's everything from debris still in bodies of water to destroyed.l so my hope with everybody is we ,et up our internal benchmarks that we'll be able to touch base over a regular period of time to make sure that your professionals are operating with that constant sense of urgency and driving your teams as hard meet the needs of the state of new jersey. in the 90 seconds i have my friend, again, a when we have respect, stood together just about two weeks ago when i was still senator-elect, we talked about the next tranche being released. it was interesting. heard from the mayor's assembly and some individual hope isions so my there's going to be a third tranche. to you've done a lot expedite funding compared to what happened in previous -- you brought it to a whole new level. concern is, it still doesn't seem fast enough. secretary donovan in the few seconds i have remaining, could you just talk generally about things you're doing to further expedite it and help me understand your expectation on that third so critical. is >> thank you for your leadership in newark as well. .he city is much stronger many family that would not have gotten help without your leadership i have know there is still pain there. but thank you for your leadership. i know you're going to bring the same energy to the senate as well. i think the problem with talking about these is this is blocking and tackling hundreds of small that are made a-- decision that are made along the way. orould give you a list of 20 30 key changes that we've made that have made a difference. was someexample, there cruel irony that anyone who started rebuilding themselves wouldn't then be eligible for cdbg help. we changed that with urging for many of your colleagues so that now somebody can get reimbursed. that's just one small example. historic preservation reviews in the environmental. we followed on with fema's good made a programmatic agreement that sped that up. so there are hundreds of small things like that. the areas where i would say big picture are most insurance the process. not just on flood insurance and having enough reviewers and other things in a very, very dense area like new york or new but also getting sodowner policies align that families can know -- often they get their insurance. then they can't even get access because their bank is there. and that's something we've worked on. i think that's critical. and then the environmental reviews. the committee did something very important in giving us the authority. when fema puts money into a project to just accept their environmental review, we don't any that authority for other agency. it's something we think legislatively ought to be done. that's an example. happy to provide you a longer list. >> ok. thank you. >> i'll get back if you're able to stay. we'll give you another round. but senator schumer? >> thank you. the first question is to secretary a-- assistant darcy.ry i'm really worried about more the wayacy getting in .f doing rock away, fire island one of the problems we ever as omb, even though we gave the secretary the authority to approve general reevaluation reports, without extra review by omb, they seem to be demanding review. about this.omb we've talked about it. but i'm really worried about getting in the way of both the fimp study and east rock to rockaway inlet. if they have to review everything, it's going to slow things down too much. that gives me worry about another storm. could you tell us what's view,ing, what's your your candid view, of o.m.b.'s shall i say meddling here? and what we can do to speed things up. doing,thing that we're senator schumer, with both the limited reevaluation reports as the general reevaluation reports is we're having monthly with c.e.q. and o.m.b. with our division commander me, to give them a status report on a monthly basis ofwhere we are on each these -- of the 18 projects that you're referring to that were in thatnterim two report so we can all know what the status where we are so that that will help to speed that review. it will be ongoing before there's even a final product. -- i's my understanding was probably the lead author of this legislation -- that we o.m.b. approval for were alreadyat authorized like fimp are they seeking such approval and is it the way? i don't mind your consulting with them. that's fine with me. senator,s stage, those -- a say -- we're going to be consulting with them and reviewing this. law as itl follow the was. tooo -- without being confrontational to your dear friends, you're agreeing with me that the law does not require their approval? >> that's correct. >> thank you. very good answer. [laughter] >> that was a perfect answer. not sure i feel comfortable about it. [laughter] >> yeah. perfect from this side of the table. >> let me just say if i can, senator schumer, your honesty forthrightness is greatly appreciated. >> right. ok. to --t we're going >> i can feel it. secretary -- another -- i mean it. guyguys have done -- you and gals have done a very good job. rochester.rom so that explains a lot of it. two questions. when can we expect an announcement of the remaining f.t.a. emergency relief funds? and more importantly, federal behway relief money cannot used for mitigation, like on ocean parkway. that's why we turn to other help us with ocean parkway. but, are you considering using any of your authority to use f.t.a. money for resiliency on other transportation modes? do that should you wish, as i understand it. it wasn't used on ocean parkway but it should be in other places on long island and in new york city. that.e a little about >> you're correct, senator. first, the authority exists under the act for the secretary to another money mode. first to answer your question on of transitanche money -- again, that's the single biggest need in the transportation network. well know. we have a notice of funding availability that's in internal review right now. we will have that completed very quickly. for $3 billion, specifically awarded on a merit resiliency projects. we will coordinate it with the taskforce by, for example, making sure that we have corps, reviewersand other looking at that from a systems perspective to make sure -- $3 billion is a fraction of the niedermayered out there. -- of the need, needed out there the transit network. the thinking is also there are real projects that may fall into category. there are shared facilities of,h you're well aware substation 4 is it, an amtrak-owned but serves both new transit and inner city passenger rail. and either through the award directly or through the secretary's transfer authority, be real projects. we do not anticipate going and inner city passenger rail projects with that. >> right i have just hope you'll an open mind with the remaining $2 billion in terms of authority using your to transfer so we can build better to avoid the next storm. very important. >> resiliency will be our focus and we know given the vulnerability of the whole network.ation but in particular, the transit system -- and what we know about sea level rise, for example, we have a lot of work to do. >> you bet. could i ask one more question your indulgence? >> almost time for a second round. this goes to first mr. holloway and then shaun donovan of as is news.s, it's not homeowners are complaining they're not getting the money .uickly enough there are all kinds of reasons for that. as i said, i think the second going to be much, much happier with the money's in ing.pipeline and flow the spigot is open. but what, in your opinion, i'm sureway -- and this would be true for your colleagues in long island and well -- is the biggest red tape problem getting in the way of aid to homeowners and projects at the federal level? >> i'll start by saying that there's been a lot of red tape that previously had existed up.'s been cleared so that has been tremendous. is a challenge, cdbg is essentially the backstop, it is a challenge to get to the backstop. >> right. >> now, that is not to say that hud's issue,sarily but getting verification from insurance companies, getting everybody's financial conditions order is very challenging to do. to say what would relieve that issue, figuring out the right kind of way without up the specter of duplication of benefits and all of those things which have a lot of the creation of a lot of process to basically get enough data to say, ok, we're pretty sure we're good -- that -- you know, we can give you some portion of funding even if you're not at the end of the verification process. i know that would be difficult do. but that's the challenge. >> and, yes, a lot of that -- we to pay when insurance has already paid. would you agree that, shaun? donovan? >> i think it is absolutely the center of many of the things that appear as red tape to homeowners whether they're necessary or just, frankly, unnecessary delays. one of the things that as we started to work through this my team began developing is call a program in a box. one of the problems that you state orhat each locality developing particularly smaller localities, new york city has as high capacity. i'm a little biased here. but as high capacity as any city the country. but for many of the smaller hitunities that have been to create a brand new program, to figure out how to do these other things is a major barrier. so what weaver' begun to work -- is a begun to working on program in a box where literally we could say here's the model, it and it will allow you to move faster. i don't think that takes care of all the issues. but it certainly could remove some of the unnecessary red tape. and then i think it's worth thinking about on duplication of benefits are there things that we could do to simplify and streamline that while still not running afoul of basically subsidizing insurance companies. >> thank you, mr. chairman. thank you, senator booker. >> thank you very much. couple of quicks ones and then to senator booker. as -- dawned on me in your testimony you mentioned the impact of sequestration to some of the this next round we're about to hit, the cr and sequestrationtial if we can't get a budget, will that have an impact on the have?onal resources you i don't know -- >> generally speaking, senator, reductionne-time of -- so specifically for the a 5%illion, it was reduction down to 15.2. that's pretty much across the board. >> that's -- ok. good. i can ask i can, if you a question, you had reporting process that aren't in place. someou going to prepare at point or you could prepare, i guess, for this committee, kind what those items would recommend to ensure that at transparency more in reporting of how the expenditures are being done so people like yourself and others can review them in a more accurate way? and if that is done by or legislation. that's the first question. second questio have you in whate looking at and uncovered any questions or hot that might say here's an area we better be looking at today in regards to some of expenditures. and if the answer is yes to that, is that occurring? last question make sense? >> yes. mr. chairman, we're happy to information on specific recommendations that we would make. but just to sort of give you -- one thing we really learned from recovery is the public is very iserested in where money going, really specifically where it is going and what it's being for. a lot of our impetus, you know, ofon transparency information. easy fix to usn to do what the federal base alreadyata does, which is when a hurricane or a special event hits, they special code. and why can't we do that on usa spending so that we know what on website is being spent for hurricane sandy? us.ust seems easy to >> what's the response? >> it had to be something done right out of the box. doisn't something we can now. it isn't something -- >> let me pause you there. >> please. >> we have four agencies here. >> yes. >> so your statement is a good statement. question ifere's my i can pause you for a second to the four agencies. system now or a into the knew tour -- future -- assume there's no disaster coming, would be a mistake. there will be one at some point. can you do this simple system here? >> senator, let me address because we have been working with the recovery accountability and transparency board on this. set up a system to collect data. website available monthly with information on spending. i think the issue is not that we can't do that. it's that require to get to the level of detail and information requires additional steps sox we do fact, it wasin parted of our sandy recovery taskforce report, that we ought to have a legislative requirement for future appropriations like that we a project management officen that there are data requirements -- regulativeeed a requirement? why don't you just do it? answer is that because -- the extent of work get to that to reporting. it means inserting in hundreds the federalcross government particular lines or codes. is not something you can do overnight. to jump in.he wants can we go back? >> well, i don't know. to not knowing the mechanics of what happens on the federal procurement data system. every contract let by the thatnment, it's a system g.s.a. has set up in the federal procurement data system that you a box thatt fill in says, yes, this is a hurricane sandy. national interest action code, i think it is called. i think we're really talking about something that i think usa spending itself could generate. know if it has to mean changes to thousands of agency's feeding data. i know that the hud taskforce and they doood job have a website that does discuss spending. very highit's at a level. and the secretary is right that what we're really talking about much more granular. now, usa spending has some of that. know, it that, you does not separately capture or you can't, you know, search by, what's a code for hurricane sandy. there's no reason why the major portal we have for federal that.ng can't do i don't think -- i'm not a person who can tell you what the having thate of done. but i think it can be done without actually legislation, i think. there just has to be a decision made to do it. that. me hold you at i've run out of time. let me ask you that last -- .irst part of the question can you produce for the committee that shopping list? >> absolutely. >> ok. would you submit that? and if you can indicate if you think it's regulatory or legislative so that can help us do a little understanding of what we can do here or what we can press to have happen. will. >> fantastic. senator booker for your next round. take toll yays in the fact that this -- take solis in the fact that this committee as will have hearings in the future. obviously this is probably one two storms that had a has hit our country in the last century in terms of its impact, damage, and cost. especially in our region in the region, whichrsey -- this ishe most obviously something of great concern. not just to our region but to the country as a whole. mark for the record my gratitude that everyone shook their heads up and down about to meet withness me and work with my office as we try to tackle these problems. bring up --g i'll and i know i'm looking forward gateeting with mr. few and -- fugate and discuss this issue. i guess i'm confused. the municipal level things don't make sense. but national level, i'm sure rational here in washington. has chilled my understanding of what's going to happen to my region when the insurance rates go so up, it's going to devastate, devastate areas of new jersey. not only it will affect homers on being but they won't even abible to sell their homes. who's going to buy their homes high insurance levels? for my understanding, just my into thisto dig personally, when bigger waters to do at required fema study about the insurance kwreu78ility and the pact on the region. it seems like a critical thing before you allow the phasing in high these incredibly insurance rates that we would know sort of what we're going to do to that legion. guess -- a matter of the record for now and something we could get into more when we you let me understand what's going on with that study and what it really devastatinghe this could have to regions like mine? >> yes. was to move towards an insurance sound program that would encourage private sector participation because we would no longer subsidize rates below value. there were many pieces to that. generally when you would see would tien that specific action before further action would go, the language would have been written so that affordability study would have been requirement before you went to the next steps. the way the legislation was was all done con currently. so the phase-in was not tied to an affordability being done. it was affordability study to be but not hold up any of the other implementations. i think this is the area we've and worked. senator menendez asked for drafting assistance that the that we wereng given and time frames -- we wasn't to the we went to the national academy of science. they informed us they could not complete the study. that even seem rational to you to let the phasing in understanding how the study is completed? >> the ability to not phase in permitted in the legislation. there were certain time frames that we were required to implement those phase-ins to start moving towards actually ago we hadyear already done secondary hoaxes, commercial-- homes, and repetitive loss. the next steps were for those subsidized,rrently phase them in over a period of time. and then the one that's causing the most immediate problem, there is a very limited phase in. of these changes were predicated upon when the legislation was passed, you had certain time frames to get that done. and the only delays was the regulatory process of implementing those rules for that. the affordability study, although still required, again, technical the drafting assistance that we need to be able to expend the funds, of national academy sciences, would be required and allow the time frames they stated it would be allowed. then postpone the increases for those areas until that study done. >> that sounds like a recommendation. it makes sense to do the study. the study right now is not being done, nor do we have the money the study yet we're still moving forward with the phasing in in. it sounds like you're saying thing to do,able to do it right, to actually understand -- to do the study, allocate whatever resources are necessary so we understand and don't fly into this blind and hurt a lot of people. >> again, understand that as the legislation was signed into law, implementing the law. as it's been designed. whenis an area that senator mendez and the previous hearing that i testified on flood insurance, he specifically to supports technical drafting assistance. and that is exactly what we've on. working how do we make insurance o so we don't subsidize risks beyond which there's a return of taxpayer?it but the intended goal should not to be place people out of their homes because we make insurance so unaffordable. >> i understand that i guess what i'm missing is the link. i'll talk to the senator about this. i guess i'm missing a link. in other words, you've provided the technical assistance. not done.till >> it still requires legislative this to behange signed into law. as we understand the law, we given any flexibility in implementing the time frames regulations done that the affordability study was were note increases dependent upon affordable study being done. it was written in such a way being done all concurrent. >> you're saying it's on the legislature to act in order for way it be done the should be done. time, weestified last have not found any way to delay those implementations without at of congress giving us of ability to suspend some those increases until such time as an affordability studsy is done. >> we're rushing forward with this not knowing the impact that's going to have, not knowing if we've struck the balance. that to me just seems a million damaging.ong and would you agree? >> i would agree that i've don't addresse affordability, our risk is we're not going to be able to move this program to a sound basis. we'll subsidize risk being, encourage growth and development where we should be building that way. put people out of their homes. so there is a balance that has atbe struck between looking at ad forrability but -- at affordability but not risk at such a low rate we increase vulnerabilities. we have got to change how we're building. but it should not be at the expense of people in their homes, forcing them out. but understand that long-term we have got to look at how do we build in coastal communities in such eh way that people's homes are not threatened every time we face a storm. >> i agree with you. frustrating thing for me is, you've got to know before you go. thee acting without having knowledge base necessary to make sound decisions. ad we could end up with situation profoundly devastati devastating. could just -- two points. this is an issue the administration raised when bigger waters was passed. in our statement of administration policy, we raise fact that there was not an affordability provision that would allow us to protect folks. raised in thewe sandy taskforce report. to echo craig's point that this is something to act on without undermining what is an important in making the program snag doesn't encourage development in places. i think it's important we strike that balance. we could get some authority to start doing this even before the affordability work is done if we could correctly with you to get the right legislation. >> i would agree. colleagues from new york as well as the chairman probably would agree with that as well. thank you. much.nk you very let me add to that and then close this hearing. we have a piece of legislation, know, that's pending. i'm hopeful that you have reviewed that legislation that implementation based on the affordability study done. i would ask if you have not input on that, at least to have tomittee, you may individual members. i would greatly appreciate that. what you're experiencing, ofator booker is a piece legislation that was not crafted well. it was crafted with a good but there is piece of the equation that was discovered after the fact that now we're trying to fix. problem is, the administration is bound by the go through they must through. if we went back in time, i bet be a different discussion going on knowing the facts we know today. but we are in this quandary. we a bill pending. senator mendez. i'm a co-sponsor. is to partially unwrap this to get us to the anordability study, get to affordability of rates, and then deal with the rate structure has to be reform. i think the administrators made it very clear. and everyone knows this. reform but wee have to get to the affordability and also the timetable. it's one of these pieces of you lookon that when at it today, you go, why didn't we fill in the blank. thewe're trying to fill in blank but clock is work much faster for them to administer gislatively. .. a pending bill. we're anxious to try to find a to move it. senate has a version. house has no version as far as we know right now. me say for the record we'll stay open until november 21 for additional questions that and submit tove the committee. i do want to thank the panel. usually we break panels into two. because of all the uniqueness and experiences you all have, it was important table. you all at the thank you for being here. thank you for being part of this hearing. then, to senator booker and other folks from new jersey and new york that were here, we will efforts to follow this and make sure we're on the right track with the expenditures and activity with it's aecause i think good learning opportunity to make sure we improve our system. thank you all for being here. committee isappreciate t. the adjourned.joern >> the place is now called the mercedes benz dome, and built entirely at public expense. after hurricane katrina badly damaged, when it hosted football games again, it was a national feel good story, and rightly, i say so, but the public paid for the repairs. there was a token amount. the public invested about a billion $s on the construction of the superdome, and the man who owns the new orleans sames keeps almost all the revenue generated there. i think why don't people rebel against this? one reason is many people do not understand this is taking place. i think the second reason is that they feel like there's nothing that they can do about it, all base on insider deals, and it is largely based on insider deals. the most recent time there was a vote last year whether to use public money to renovate the place of the dolphins, and the citizens voted against doing that because they got to vote on it. >> more sunday night at eight on c-span's "q&a." unlike ike, we have her report card from the school in denver, colorado. while she got a b in english, she actually got a c-minus in european history. who knew as a military wife and future first lady she would be so well-traveled and so much to do with european history. mamie loved charge, and early on, ike heard this, west point football charm, showing the army and navy game scores, 1914 when ike was coach for the army football team. as a military wife, she took pride in creating a home for ike in each of the 36 different places they lived throughout their marriage. >> watch the program on first lady mamie eisenhower at c-span.org/firstladies or saturday on c-span at 7 p.m. eastern, and our series continues live monday as we look at first lady kennedy. at a senate jew dish ri committee, senators questioned the bureau of prisons directer about ways to reduce prison population and recidivism. others discussed the costs of minimum sentencing. this is two hours. a. the hearing will come to ore. i'm grateful the chairman of the judiciary committee has joined us, chairman leahy and senator durbin of illinois, and i'm sure others will join us. senator grassley will join us after important business right down the hall. he'll be along as soon as he's cleared that. welcome, everybody. today's hearing is oversight of the bureau prisons and cost effective strategies for reducing recidivism. we'll exercise our legislative responsibility to conduct oversight of the bureau of prisons, but more importantly, we'll explore with director charles and second panel of witnesses what can be done to improve or federal correction system to better protect the public while reducing costs. this is an area that astricted broad and bipartisan interest within the committee, and i think there is real reason for on optimism in legislating effectively in the area. continued growth in federal spending on prisons and detention poses a significant threat to all other federal law enforcement and activities. in the last year, the cost obtaining inmates ate up more than 30% of the justice's department budget. since 2000, costs sortedded -- associated with federal prisons doubled. if nothing is done, these costs will continue to consume an ever-larger share of the department's budget squeezing out other activities. they walk the touchest beat in the state to do more with less. if we let the trends continue, we'll be putting the brave men and women at serious and unnecessary risk. fortunately, states across the country have shown that it's possible to reign in costs while improving public safety and reducing resis vich. my state of rhode island enjoys the leadership of the director of our department of corrections and the dean of corrections director aired the country. with his leadership, we have a package of reforms that increased reduction programming, focused attention on high risk offenders, and expanded investments in successful community reentry. as a result of these reforms, our states' prison populations declined for the first time in years. other states had similar successes. today, we'll hear from witnesses from pennsylvania and kentucky who helped lead their states in enacting and implementing significant reforms of their correction systems that cut costs while better protecting the public. these examples show it's time for the federal government to learn from these states. as a former state and federal prosecutor, i recognize there's no easy solutions to the problem. inmates in the federal prisons are there because they have committed serious offenses, and because the law enforcement officers across their country did the job, did their jobs in seeing they were arrested and prosecuted, and we must never try to save money at the expense of public safety. what the states have showed, it is possible to cut costs while making the public safer if we are guided by what works. to achieve this goal, we must be willing to look at all as pegs of our sentencing and correction system. we should be willing to reevaluate mandatory minimum sentences, an area in which the chairman and senator paul, senator durbin and senator lee have done important work together. we have to explore where the guidelines work effectively nearly 30 years after they were first enacted. we have to do enough to provide drug and alcohol treatment for those inmates who need it, and whether we're collecting accurate information about substance abuse and addiction from the presentence report right through the criminal justice process. we have to ask if there's more to be done before reentering the communities and more to help the communities with their reend try. in rhode island, we passed reforms that allowed inmates to earn credit towards their sentences if they were willing to participate in programs that meaningfully reduced their criminal risk factors. we have to ask if we can do a better job of supervising exoffenders after release. many states led by the home state of hawaii as example, the hope program, implemented parole systems with swift and certain sanctions for violations of the terms of supervision with promising results so far. from the presentence report from post relief supervision, there's room for improvement. let me conclude with one point that i think is not debatable. doing nothing about the problem is no longer an option. if we do nothing, we are choosing to let the corrections budget take away from the fbi's ability to disrupt terrorism groups. if we do nothing, we allow the costs of corrections to prevent us from stopping the next generation of signer threats. we choose to spend less forcing the violation against women act, choosing to give less to the local state and local law enforcement agencies. those are not choices my colleagues wish to make. those are not smart choices, so i look forward to hearing from director samuels and others to address the critical issue, and i now recognize our chairman. thank you, sir. >> thank you, and thank you, chairman whitehouse. i agree, and this 1 the second hearing this fall turning attention to the unsustainable growth in the federal prison population. 700% increase i believe in the last 30 years. we're losing agents and prosecutors necessary to invest gait and charge crimes. we're cutting support for critical work with our local and state law enforcement. i think the main drivers, front end sentencing laws are enacted by us in congress. like the proliferation of mandatory sentences. i'm hoping that many, including people who voted for those, again, now, in retrospect realize it was a bad mistake. i'm committed to addressing sentences reform this year, and i'm pleased by the fact that both republicans and democrats have -- are joining in that effort. it is a problem that congress created. it's also a problem that congress can fix, and it's high time we do so, and i think public demands we do so. we can do such things as changing the calculation on good time credit. congress intended for the 47 credits. that's a change that i include in the second chance reauthorization act, and i believe senator whitehouse, you're going to be doing that. i want to find out about programs that reduce recidivism. i know the interest in the community of senator whitehouse and others. it -- more than any other federal inmates released into our communities, what what chance do they have to make it when released? lastly, one of the main reasons i wanted to be here, director samuels, thank you for the prompt attention of concerns that i raised, others raise with the proposed closing with the secure facility in the northeast, and i understand you have taken the concerns to heart. i know that people in the -- in my state of vermont think and senator bloomenthal raised the question. i put my vote in the record, and i told senator whitehouse i'm supposed to be in another hearing, but thank you for doing this. it is a subject we have to -- and director samuels, thank you for your service. >> thank you very much. i turn to the distinguished ranking member, senator grassley. >> i always welcome the opportunity to have oversight of justice department. it's a very important function of this company or this committee, and the bureau of prisons, of course, is the large component of the department's budget. of course, the bureau's work is very, very important we all know with the budget deficits we have, the federal government spends too much money so it is nice to have this administration find some places to save money, but the bureau of prisons is one of the few places where thigh are trying to do that. we have to be careful about any action we take in changing sentencing laws, whether based on costs or other concerns. it's hard to think of another example of a more successful domestic policy than reduction of crime rates that we had. it's achieved by changes, policing techniques, longer sentences, and many others i won't name. crime rates at the lowest level in 50 years. many people deserve to be proud of the results. we have to remember these were hard won gain, and i'm concerned we are hearing the same kind of voices that headed us towards a greater crime starting back in the 1960s. for instance, we hear that prisons should have sentences retroactively reduced. we hear that mandatory minimum sentences could be eliminated, that we should no longer have sentencing, fewer drug prosecutions should be pursued, that all of the proposals would save money and not raise crime. reducing sentences return them to the streets sooner. many so-called nonviolent drug offenders happen to have violence records. some released offenders will commit additional crimes. somehow cost analysis of the bureau of prisons do not include cost to victims including injuries, economic whroseses, psychological and economic or emotional harms m one represented here today notes most costs are fixed and the real costs of adding or sub tracting inmates is close to the $25,000 figure often used. that changes the calculation as well. the price for increased judicial discretion are actually covering language for leniency. too many judges are already too lenient. they can be serious damage. i know the rules last week that the district judge violated judicials to issue rulings against successful practices that led to improve. rather than contemplate rebutte for actions and changing courts away from the bias, i regret this district judge issued a press release statement containing that she had done nothing wrong. of course, we wok state officials who will testify today. we can always consider what states are doing, but state and federal offenders an have committed different kinds of crimes. what works in one context do not work for another, and we have to proceed with caution because states hit more prisoners out early yerl, crime rates are rising. it's too early to fully establish the causes of this increase in crime, but the bureau of statistics announced that property and violent crime rates were significant in 2012. the rate rose from 2 # 2.6 per 1 # # ,000 to -- in 2011 to 26.1 in 2012. the rate of property crimes were always 10% in one year. fund are not unlimited, and i'm willing to examine a balance mixed of sentencing reforms. it is well worth considering releasing prisoners of advanced age or other situations to assessed, and leniency for the sake of leniency is ill-advise, especially a bad idea as crime rates are rising as we have seen in the last couple of years. i look forward to these hearings, thank you. >> thank you, senator durbin, would you like to make an opening statement? senator sessions? >> mr. chairman, thank you, and this is an important subject. we have talked before, i believe in terms of cost, we tend to spend too much per prisoner, more than two times what the average states are probably spending on their prisons number one. number two, we have had an increase in violence crime rates, and with the budget difficulties, states were maybe 90% of the prisoners confronted by the criminal justice system, softening punishments, and federal government sort of set the standard, and lead sometimes in those issues. senator durbin and i did work together on legislation to ease some of the sentences for crack and other punishments, really, so i think it took a step in the right direction, but senator grassley is correct. you know, we've seen a substantial increase in crime, 15% violent crimes last year, and the fact is that long term sustained reduction in crime in america from the consistent violence times of the 1970s when i was a young prosecutor to half that today, murder rate half of what it was. a lot of that is driven by the fact that there are not that many people who commit murders. not that many people commit rapes. the more of those who are in jail, the fewer murders and rapes you're going to have. that's just fact. people do not need to go back to the time where we don't think realistically about the value of prison in terms of reducing crimes, and with regard to recidivism, mr. chairman, some programs work better than others, but anybody that knows anything about the criminal justice system over a long period of time knows there's no cure, no plan yet ever devisedded, but someone always has something they say changes the course of criminal history, but it's not happened yet, and we tried thousands of different programs, so we've got to be modest in reducing recidivism, 10-15% is worthy of us giving great consideration to, but these ideas of promotion, 50% reduction in crime, you have to prove it to me. i've been watching this for over 30 years, if it would, i appreciate it, mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator clob char, do you have a statement? >> no, i look forward to hearing the witnesses. >> senator lee? >> just to thank you for having this hearing and respond briefly to the remarks made by the senator from alabama between the two of us, i think, perhaps we have close to 70 years in the justice system, and i want to agree with him that in an ideal world, we would, first of all, have no crime, but second, free criminals without regard to the dollar cost, but there are very severe dollar costs to incarceration, and, in fact, the cost of incarcerating an individual is now in excess of what it costs to send a young person to college in many universities across the country, and i would just point out that many states are taking very innovative and important steps in reducing their prison populations in part because of wiser incarceration policies, and i hope we can explore the policies with the bureau of prisons here so we keep dangerous people in prison, the ones who are likely to recommit serious and harmful crimes, physically dangerous people, and at the same time work to rehabilitate them, and i am going to be focused on the recent decision that the federal correctional institution at danb urges -- danbury, which up fortunately, a number of us to stop which would have resulted in a number of women prisoners away from their families, which, in my view, is bad policy no matter how long people are kept in prison. they have to be nearer to their children, especially if they are mothers of those children, and nearer to their families, and i'm glad we were able to make sure we were clear in the decision, and i want to thank the director of the bureau of prisons for wisdom in doing so, and i look forward to asking questions about other prisons and other prisoners and what can be done to keep them near to their prisons, whether they are women or men. thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. do you care to make an opening statement? >> very briefly, mr. chairman. prison overcrowding is a huge issue at both the federal and state levels, so thank you for this hearing, and i will be very interested in hearing from our witnesses what we can do regarding the front end to do with sentencing and at the back end of the the recidivism is another nay senior issue so front and back end relating to overcrowding, thank you. >> thank you. will you stand to be sworn in do you affirm the testimony you are about to give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth so help you god? thank you and welcome. samuel e., jr., as directer, responsible for the director of oversight and management of all federal institutions and safety and security of thousands of inmates under the agency's jurisdiction. prior to the appointment, he was the assistant director of the correctional programs division where he oversaw all management and functions including intelligence and counterterrorism initiatives, case management, and other services. director began the career at the bureau of prisons as a corrections officer in 1988. we are pleased to have him. please proceed. >> [inaudible] i can't begin without acknowledging the past february we suffered losses with the murders of two of our staff. officer williams from the united states penitentiary was stabbed to death we an inmate while working in a housing unit. lieutenant was shot and kill while driving home from the metropolitan detention center in puerto rico. we'll honor the memories of the two officers. i know we all share commitment to our nation's criminal justice systems. we are proud of the role we play in supporting the department of justice safety efforts, but we understand that incars rations is only one asset of the overall mission. you share concerns about the increasing costs associated with operating the nation's largest correctional system. those costs make up one quarter. doj's budget. we're optimistic the attorney general's budget will reduce the population in the years ahead. several of you feel you have the potential to positively impact the growth population and crowding through reforms and incentives. i appreciate your work and interest in the important topic, and i look forward to working with you going forward. they are responsible for incarceration of over 219,000 inmates. our prisons are crowded. there's 30% more inmates than design to have. we're concerned about the 52% row crowding, and 35% crowding in the facility. i'm grateful for the support provided to activate new facilities in berlin, new hampshire, haze lton, wefsz, miss, and alabama. when activated, these facilities will assist in reducing crowding rates by about 4%. i know you expressed this, but the change will decrease crowding from 48% to 23% below security female facilities, and from 38% to 36% in low security male facilities and also bring in many women and men closer to their homes. reentry is critical, and reentry begins on the first day of incars ration. preparation for release includes treatment, education, job skills training, and more that takes place in the term. over the past 20 years, there's a significant evolution and expansion of the inmate reentry program. several of our most significant programs are proven to reduce recidivism. federal prison industries or fpis, one of the most important programs. they participate from 24% most likely to reside vat the nine participating inmates recently given new authorities to seek work and pursue potential projects under the prison industries enhancement certification program, and we're working dill gently to maximize these opportunities. we have more than 450 inmates working on repatriation projects. we work with many experts that inmates are triaged to assess risk and determine appropriate programs to reduce such risk. high risk offenders are the first priority for treatment as they pose the greatest public safety risk when released. the safety of staff, inmates are the highest priority. we have several changes to end hains safety and security. i have recent advantages. we expanded the availability of pepper spray for the staff to use in situations. we have developed plans to add a correctional officer in the housing during hours, and we made significant advances in reducing use of restrictive housing and expanding drug use programs. the mission of the bureau prisons is challenging. maintaining high levels of security and ensuring inmates actively participate this reentry programs that serve and protect society. chairman whitehouse this concludes my formal statement. i thank the members of the committee for your continued support, and i will be happy to answer any questions. thank you, director samuels. you said in the testimony that reentry should begin first day, planning should plan for a stay. what further staff steps can they take? >> i think the next step for the committee to consider as stated in written testimony and in my oral statements, we are doing everything possible when inmates enter the system to begin the reentry process, nothing to -- since 1980, our population has exploded. in 1980, there was approximately 26,000 inmates in our care. 10 thowrs staff to manage that population, and only 41 institutions at that time. as of to-date, as indicated, our population is at 219 thowrs. we have approximately 38,000 staff. that is an increase of 830% just with the inmate populations alone. safety and security is very, very important to manage a correctional facility. we ar

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