Transcripts For CSPAN2 Jody 20240706

Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to equality within our lifetime how laws and policies can close widen gender gaps in economies worldwide. A webinar by new americas Better Life Lab well into the 21st century achieving equality in the economy remains business worldwide, womens employment, income and opportunities lag behind building and a one of a kind database that covers hundred and 93 countries. The book equality within our lifetimes systematically analyzes how far weve come and how we have to go to close these gaps. Its a powerful call to action. How gender equality is both feasible and urgently needed to address some of the greatest challenges of our generation. Moderating todays event with research Aleta Sprague and is Haley Swenson a researcher and writer who has been part of the Better Life Lab team for the last six years. She has a ph. D. And gender studies and her research focuses on the relationship between racial and gender equality at work and, at home. Her writing has been featured in the new york times. The washington and slate, as well as dozens of other outlets, along with schultz, she has pioneered the better Lab Experiments project, which puts Evidence Based advice for creating a Fair Division of labor at into the hands of families that need it. Please join me in everyone to the stage. Thank you so much, julia. Its such a pleasure to be here and to be here with not only a wonderful audience, but the two of the authors of the book will be discussing today. Alita and jody. I want to give a brief introduction them and then im going to kick things over to them. Actually, this is a very data rich text and i think visuals will really help the audience to wrap their heads around it and and grok where the arguments theyre making are coming from and what the Evidence Base is for it. So i want to them a chance to present on the book a bit. We dive into discussion after their presentation i will shift to a few. The book raised for me as a follower of these questions. And that said, i invite our audience to please enter your comments and your questions. The slides box as we go, and ill be getting kind of a live report, those questions and comments and, id love to bring them into our discussion. So if you have a question at some clarity, you just want to add something that stands out to you about the data or you have a provocative discussion question that that our authors take on. Please added their end and wed love for this discussion to be as engaging and interactive possible as by this fantastic software that were using here today. I want to introduce our authors of equality within lifetimes how laws and policies can close or widen gender gaps in economies worldwide. There are actually three authors on the book, but amy robb, due to some time issues, cannot join us today. But are very fortunate to have jody heymann and Aleta Sprague and joining us so jody is the founding of the World Policy Analysis Center at the ucla Fielding School of public health. Heineman leads largest independent effort to improve the level and quality of comparative policy Data Available to policymakers, researchers and the public. She is an elected member of the National Academy of sciences and has authored and edited more than 500 publications, including books and Aleta Sprague she is senior legal analyst for World Policy Analysis Center. Sprague is an attorney with over a decade of experience working on social policy and inequality. She has coauthored a range of publications examining how and policies shape racial, gender and socioeconomic disparities. So, jody, with that said, why dont kick us off and tell us about the book, your perspective. Thank you so much. Its a joy to be here with you and joy to here with everybody whos joining the audience. So we started this effort at a time when were saying it would take over hundred years to reach gender equality in the economy how could it possibly be that we thought as the global or as a country was acceptable, we being half the world behind half the World Without equal. Saying we needed centuries achieve it. And that huge economic loss. So the title equality within our lifetimes from a profound belief that it is possible we take the steps necessary. The biggest finding from the book is that these huge gaps we have in inequality link complete to lots that not to say that laws are the only driver certainly nor is attitudes, individual actions links all affect the inequality, but just as there we lag behind women, lag behind men on leadership, we dont have the same protection globally for equality in training or promotions, and thats just one of many examples. But i will share a few slides here first, because a picture is worth a thousand words. So if american can up the slides, okay, so as i mentioned, you know, women make up just about a third of senior managers, the Top Companies around the world. But just look at where the world is. This is percent of countries terms of protecting gender discrimination. Well, most of the world has some step on gender. And the biggest area is pay. The next biggest hiring. But when you go things that matter for in a workforce training, just over half of countries say you cant explicitly you cant discriminate in training. Less than two thirds even take that first step of putting in law that promotions cant be described or we all know implementing that has its own set additional challenges but the first step is making a commitment to it next slide these. The inequality in the workforce first has to do with discrimination, but it also has to do with an unequal responsibility for caring for everyone from kids to elders. Well get back to that the second and what countries can do about it. But a lot of times gender discrimination actually comes in the form of caregiving. And we know this as just one example because the big pay gap is not between men and women, that pay get gap exists, but the much bigger pay is what happens. Once a woman has a child or other caregiving responsibilities. So do we see when it comes to protecting from discrimination because your mom and amidst the pandemic overwhelmingly those had care responsibility lost more jobs and most all women of color caregiving responsibilities lost most jobs during the pandemic. The data shows us that nearly all countries have some kind of protection against, gender discrimination, but here to only about how protect against mothers being discriminated against in the workforce and importantly because men having equal roles at home is to everybody having roles the economy even fewer protect against fathers being discriminated at in the workforce against in the workforce and that becomes issue with things like uptake of paternity leave. Next slide please. Its crucial that all women be protected from discrimination for, all women to be protected. Most people have multiple aspects of their identity of who they are and different ways that they experience life, but also that they are discriminated against. This just that in some of those characteristics that people have those intersecting forms of potential discrimination or multiple forms of discrimination, then theres a lot of protection here. These are the numbers protecting for multiple. So are you protect it on religion and on gender fewer countries might actually protect the u. S. Well what we see for religion race or disability you should out of 193 countries, pretty widespread protection. But when you get towards the bottom, how many countries are protecting micro or women with different nationalities . Its than half. When you get Sexual Orientation and gender identity. Well, theres been real. Its the least of next slide. Please. Sexual harassment is another form of discrimination of gender discrimination. And so more than five years ago, we saw as the Metoo Movement went global increasing attention to that first step of do every does every country have a law prohibiting Sexual Harassment at work has to be achieved. The no prohibition this chart its 50 countries still have no at all against Sexual Harassment at work and the green the ones that from both supervisors and coworkers which becomes especially important for women as they advance in jobs because the restaurant they most commonly from coworkers later on thats only 32 countries that do go next please. Having the law there is the first step but we need to do more than have along. We need to make sure that companies actually take steps prevent to prevent sexual or other forms of discrimination and that someone who reports sexual cant be retaliate against. And what you see here is less than a third of countries have both those basic protections and i just want to pause minute before i go to caregiving to i know were presenting a lot of data its all freely so any events that we go by to fast if you go to World Policy Center talk thats our landing page of website, you can Download Link to the book, download for free. You can get policy briefs if you want it. If you want a 32nd map with the number, all of those are really a link there. So next slide please. Achieving equality in our lifetime takes you. Equality in the workforce is also takes equality at home and it takes the ability of people to balance caring with working. So one of the fundamental rights thats been recognized for a century paid leave for moms. So 120 countries around the world guaranteed at least 40 weeks,. 187 guarantees. Some paid leave for, those in the audience. Joining us, the United States. You can readily that one of the few countries and the only high income country without it is the united the only other countries without it are Papua New Guinea and five small South Pacific island states. Every other country paid maternity. Next slide please. In addition to pavement we if were going to achieve equality. Pape attorney labor has a huge role to play. So when fathers study after study shows when fathers are involved early in life in first year, not only is it to them, but it improves economic outcomes for their spouses, partners and it creates long term engagement in childrens lives. Theres been dramatic increase in paid paternity leave around the world, nearly tripling globe alley. It does remain to short the and thats part of inequality and thats why you see lot of red and orange on map is the number countries with short leave that been said the 45 countries that give men 14 weeks or more. Show the feasibility of next slide please. So one of the things that makes the biggest difference in dads uptake is having either leave reserved for dads or an incentive take it to really get over history of it being disproportion simply women 86 countries do it. Next slide please. People raise the costs of having paid leave and paid leave does cost money and yet the amount of money that is left on the table, the loss to our economy of not doing it is so greater, so that this just shows that we achieved gender equality in the u. S. Economy. We would be about increasing our gdp. By ¥4. 3 trillion with teeth dollars a year. Its a huge amount to left on the table money that we need for many of the challenges we face. Next slide, please. All right. This looks like a super busy slide. It looks kind of chaotic. But you really just need to pay attention. One thing, whats happening to that red line . Its going consistently. This is womens Labor Force Participation rankings of the oecd, of our high income country comparators in the always in 2000, we seventh in the most recent data the u. S. Ranked 28th. This is a result of not taking steps that need to taken around here globally. There changes that need to happen in the discrimination and sexual law, national elite. The biggest gaps are how weve fallen further and further behind its others have it. Other countries have on supporting care from infancy to old age. And ill stop there for now. Wow. That is a striking figure once you wrap your head around all the lines and you follow that red line that really, really tells us a lot about whats been happening in this country. While things have been changing for the better abroad. And i think thats really striking at this moment and almost three years into a pandemic, that feeling that we on the cusp of some big changes, people may recall the build back better and reconciliation package, which was, you know, i think there was a lot of enthusiasm around and it just didnt quite have the votes. And so here we are continuing on that on that decline, it would seem even as some recovering from the pandemic is happening, so, so many questions come up out of this. But i kind of want to take a step back just to start, i have a feeling some in our audience may not be feeling all this data quite as personally as others. Us, i will say i currently 37 weeks pregnant and im employed as a freelancer. So i, i dont have an employer to offer me paid leave. I dont live in one of the handful of states that is that has implemented a paid leave program. So all of hits really close to home for me and folks who signed on to this event may feel the same way, be drawn to this issue for similar kinds of reasons. But but see, theyre not. And they dont feel this quite as personally or folks are going to be sending link around to this book to. Friends and family who may not quite get it, who may say, you know, theres a of problems, a lot of forms of inequality in this. Why should we care . So about gender equality on a global level . Why is this an issue that we need to be thinking about major policy reforms to solve . Well, what would you say to those folks. So i can kick us off . I think thats a great question and really foundational question. You know, i think there are there are numerous to care, really, no matter where live, no matter where you fall in the political spectrum, whether or not this is really hitting home or it feels more abstract. So ill just focus on on three to get us started. You know, first and foremost, it is it is a fundamental right nearly every country around world has signed on to international and agreements dating back decades that guarantee gender in the economy and elsewhere or most recently, all 193 un Member States adopted. The Sustainable Development goals, which only call on countries to achieve gender equality by 2030, but also specifically call them to eliminate all forms of gender discrimination in the law, which is a big focus of this project. But even beyond that, gender equality matters to the wellbeing of everyone, you know, theres Extensive Research when more girls are able to stay school, Life Expectancy increases for women and men alike. Child nutrition improves, Educational Attainment increases not only for those girls. But for the next we also see really crosscutting impacts. More women are in leadership, so more women are in parliament countries. Take stronger action on climate change. You know, one of the key challenges of our generation when more women are on boards Corporate Social Responsibility practices increase and. None of this is to, you know, essential has the nature of womens contributions. But the fact is, you know, communities better and countries do better when. Women are able to fully participate. And when gender doesnt prevent anyone from pursuing their own path in life. And then finally, there are these broad economic benefits, you know, as jody mentioned, for the u. S. Alone in closing, gender gaps in the economy could add 4 trillion globally. The estimates around 28 trillion. So you know, no matter what your vantage point, the potential gains are immense, but actually achieving equality within our lifetimes will require every taking action to accelerate. Jody, did you want to add anything on that question . No, i think i couldnt have said it better. Everything that to the fantastic. So no, i think thats i think those are really, really important to this question. And i raised it in part because just at this moment in time with the pandemic it does feel difficult to know where to put our energies. You know, were facing climate. Were facing this ongoing to health care. But as you mentioned, you know, theres overlap with this problem of gender equality at every turn when you get there. And i think so many of us felt that during the pandemic that there was suddenly new a new rocking of the situation among folks who didnt get it. I mean, ive been covering care throughout the pandemic, for example, and the explosion of news interest in who has access to child care, where is it coming from, what it so broken in the United States, you know, how are other countries handling it . We havent really seen that level of interest in that question prior to the pandemic for a very long time. You know, since the 1970s, when child care was really on on the political map for the last time. So i was wondering if you could speak to that. You know, youre writing this book as the world is. I mean, facing challenge unlike any it had seen in recent years. One that just found its way into every school, every workplace, every home. How did that color your thinking about this book and the way that you thought about tackling these issues. So i can kick us off on one because i think i can speak directly some of the child care pieces and then ill pass it to jody since i know we had different experiences of the past few years, but you for me, when the pandemic started, when you were really just beginning to draft this, i had my first child, a six months old, and my parents had been providing child care, but they were unable to continue doing so as covid really took off. So, you know, as of march 2020, like millions other families, we were trying to juggle paid work and caregiving day in and day out at home. And, you know, frankly, was that was a grind. But, you know, i was also very fortunate in the big scheme of things, ultimately, i was able to continue to work because for one thing, i had a job that could be performed remotely. And second, i had access to support my my husband actually had lost his job due to the pandemic. The Silver Lining was he was able to step up as our daughters primary caregiver, which was really such a joy to witness and my own workplace allowed, me to have some flexibility in my schedule and to take some leave for caregiving as needed. So we found a new normal, but, you know, just thinking about, you know, the between my my own experience and these broader prospects for gender and you know, i think obviously the early days of the pandemic were unique circumstance isas but they also expose these huge structural gaps that matter all the time. So in in the u. S. People didnt have sick leave, they didnt have caregiving. Many households like mine had been relying on informal family caregiving to meet essential care needs because as you mentioned, Services Like childcare, inaccessible, unaffordable. Even before the pandemic. And then when this this crisis layered on top of this really already foundation, you know, the immediate consequences for womens employment were just so massive and, even more so for for black and latina women. You look at the initial employment losses. So i would just say, you know for me, writing this book amidst the pandemic underscored, what a critical difference supports both at home and at work can make. But it also reinforced that right now there are deep structural inequities who has access to those supports and further reinforce that stronger National Policies to be a critical piece of the solution. Now passage. Yeah so so indeed probably like many of your all of us while we were writing this had different care needs and to your point earlier vaguely like why why care the different people coming to this. I would say its its theyre very few americans who if you look over a ten year period dont this at some point in their work life and they may not experience children they may experience it for a sibling for a parent so who theyre experience it for can be really wide range and and it may not be every year but over the course of our work life its almost all us. So my in my case my father became very sick and then a progressive surge and and eventually he died during the pandemic and. Were extremely close. And, you know, i feel so fortunate that i was able have the time with him. But you shouldnt feel fortunate in the states to be able to care for. Your parents, everyones be able to care for their parents. Everyones be able to care for them. Whos seriously ill just to give it. And and thats where the policy comes in, it shouldnt just i. I was lucky to have a better just if we share a couple we give a little sense of where the world on that right now see that the United States is far behind. Hoping that new america bring up this one. See one moment. Sure. Yeah and and jody, as you as get those slides pulled up, one question comes in from the audience, from allison, wondering about how this sort of remote or hybrid Work Environment may have played a role in some these various outcomes that you all mentioned for women and those with other intense responsibilities. I mean it a lot has changed but i think its important to remember that a lot of has gone to a privileged few to to the lucky few as my colleague vicki shabo says, those who won the lottery, you know, are the ones who are benefiting from those. So if you can touch on that, thatd be great as well. Yeah, absolutely. So i think the work from home is mixed for many people, for those who have jobs that can truly be done from home, who still have childcare that their children go out to. But where it means maybe its easier them to live in the same city with their spouse or partner who maybe it means they have less commuting time. At least several a week. That can be a real benefit. Many jobs, thats not true. And if you live in a small apartment, the one bedroom apartment with your children and your children are there during the day. Its practically impossible so i think it really varies. Now, the other thing that pandemic brought out was what happens. A Family Member gets sick. Well, the United States lags not only terms of paid leave for parents, but you can see it doesnt have any guarantees outside of the temporary ones in the pandemic. And 11 states where you can have guaranteed be able to keep your job and take when your childs sick. Most of europe does most. Not all but most of oecd countries. Next slide, please. More of the world does it for. Serious health needs. You know, all the children in countries who get a terrible tough diagnosis who get cancer diagnoses, who maybe get a chronic diagnosis thats really going to take time to adjust to like type one diabetes parents available is essential here far more countries guarantee that we for Serious Health needs. The United States has unpaid leave, but unpaid leave is. To the majority families and half the country isnt even covered. That unpaid leave. Next slide, please. When we look globally and for those listening, most at nobel today, were talking more about some of the implications for the united. But both well talk some today and we have more online and our are launched by page from policies and our dot org slash equality within our lifetimes but. The world is less foreign than it needs be for adult care. We just we cant forget that people dont and the pandemic was a huge reminder. But we havent made the progress we need to ensure that people can care for a illness in the spouse. If we did this map for spouse partner it becomes even more the world read with. Next slide please. I will just i guess i didnt have a slide there about. Elder care. But again, huge gaps in caring for elderly parents. But there is hope and the hope has to do progress and lead. Its going to talk more about this later. Though. We leave that here and let let us pick up on the progress lines later. But i dont want to just say are gaps because weve been tracking these. And the good news part this story which really makes it clear we could achieve dramatic changes in equality within our lifetime are the parts of the world that have markedly changed. Whats there to make greater gender equality at work and at. Yeah, thank you for that. And you know, i think some may remember that during the Pandemic Congress was able to pass a temporary leave. The first paid leave, you know, federal legislation that has made it through. Weve the fmla on the books for 30 years now and gives some workers access to unpaid leave as you mentioned, many families cannot afford an unpaid leave, but but during the pandemic, there was an leave available to who were unable to go to work because of their caregiving needs and. You know, i think that program was really limited at it wasnt well publicized, but some of the folks on our team at Better Life Lab went out seeking folks who used it, who knew about it often. They found out about it because h. R. Sent it around, you know, and said, hey, if youre really struggling to make it work right now, heres this option for you and resoundingly, i mean, people were really thrilled with it. There were some folks who took, you know, consecutive weeks right away. To help their kids with adjust to zoom before coming back home sort of in a more flexible way. One of my colleagues interviewed a father who decided to use the leave very strategically. So one friday at a time. So it was essentially cut back to working 40 workweeks. And you know what . Those i think especially when dads were taking this, what they would say is, just that they were their eyes were opened up. This whole world of caregiving that they werent getting in their normal jobs, you know. And so as were talking about the law, as you say, the law doesnt solve everything. But its so closely connected with norms and values. You know, you make a small shift a small temporary shift in the law and what it actually means for values and norms is quite enormous for the people that it impacts. And that and that it finds a way into their life. I do want to talk some more about this. As youre talking about these leave laws about the role of unpaid care in setting the terms of gender inequality worldwide. I think theres in the u. S. Also in the book, you cite this kind of common logic that theres a natural reason that women are so burdened, lets say, with care of its not always just a burden. Theres love involved. Theres you know, pleasure involved in caregiving. Theres real, genuine desire to give care. But when we at the statistics, its so unbalance worldwide whos providing the unpaid care and who is engaging in paid work. And it has these enormous. So i wonder just from looking at the lay of the land, you know, the countries who are doing much better than the u. S. But but clearly looking global numbers nobodys quite got unpaid care work figured out what is the the proper role government in supporting unpaid care. I think theres a real kind of american which is well this is private cares private you know cares for families to figure out the government shouldnt have a role in you know maybe nondiscrimination laws are one thing but to actually support invest in health manage that caregiving maybe we dont want the government involved in that. So whats the right balance and how should governments be thinking about how to support. So im happy to lead us off. You know, i think one thing is, is how we are thinking about caregiving and caregiving is really essential infrastructure. You know, caregiving is what supports the rest of the economy, what enables the rest of the economy to function. And as as, you know, whether are supporting families to to make their own choices, i think thats an interesting angle on actually what is happening because right now there is so much inequality embedded in the law that families dont really have a choice of how they balance care within their own households. I do want to up on what jodi was saying a moment ago, though, about how there has been really exciting global progress in some key areas that matter to equality and care and and matter ultimately to norms, as you were mentioning here. So if we could bring back up the slide that we just had had. Great. So one of the most striking findings from the data it has is how rapidly leave for fathers has really begun to expand the world. I think jody mentioned its its tripled since 1995. Globally. Its tripled. And in some regions, progress has actually been even faster. So if you look across african countries share that have some kind of paid leave for fathers has has quadrupled. Since 1995 and thats its just easy see on this graph you know we most with the u. S. Its a very notable exception have had some kind of paid leave for for mothers for decades if not longer. Some policies go back a century. But were finally starting to see that that paid leave for men is starting to catch up. And that is really exciting. You know, when we know that when men take leave, women more likely to return to their jobs their earnings increase, men develop more satisfying relationships with their children. They also stay involved in care and housework after they leave. And so it really plays this foundational role in setting patterns of caregiving that have these these much broader. Though at the same time. And jody mentioned this earlier as well, you know, that the devils in the details when it comes to the policy design. So in most countries right now, even though there has been an increase in, massive increase in the share of countries, some kind of leave to men, its generally still far shorter than whats provided to women. So 4 of countries men get less than three weeks. And in many just a few days. At the same time, only a small number of countries, you know, incentivize its or encouragement to take leave which has shown a lot of promise in increasing take up rates since you know the reality is men often still face pressure within their workplaces to take leave when its available to them. There are still theres still a bit of this the stigma around Maternity Leave that we dont see in the same way when its mothers. And those are gaps that will really need to be addressed. These benefits to extend more broadly another area of progress that i just want to highlight and lets. Jody, did you want to jump in if we go to the next slide was just on on caregiving, discrimination. And jody mentioned this earlier and it might be a less familiar sort of legal area to people than parental leave, but it is critical for both practical and more on the norms side. Practical speaking, you know, protections against, gender discrimination simply dont always extend to discrimination based on responsibilities or related physical conditions like pregnancy or breastfeeding have you seen this in in case law from a range of countries and we we highlight a bunch of examples in the book but beyond those you know very practical applied impacts prohibiting discrimination based on Family Responsibilities matters to these these norms that youre talking about they matters to creating workplace cultures where its expected and understood that workers of all genders have full lives and that often means that outside of work there, theyre caring for children, theyre caring for spouses, for partners, for aging parents. I think establishing that these are extremely common, almost universal responsibilities, cant justify discrimination. Its its important. Its important for ensuring workers, regardless of gender, can address caregiving needs in their lives without passed over for promotion or tracked into a role with less responsibilities. So as we can see on this slide, you know, this Shows Progress in laws over five years and even with the match for a time, there has been progress across all these different aspects of discrimination. But there still you know substantial gaps between protections on gender and protections based on caregiving statuses and. Protections are actually lowest for fathers. You know, the one thing id to your to your important is here we were amidst the pandemic almost about two parts major leave legislation that would have been transformative for United States made sure child childcare legislation honestly just barely catching with a lot of our peer countries but huge for the United States and we didnt and the argument was against it was the cost was that we couldnt afford it with Everything Else i dont we can afford not to we we really are this fork in the road and you that with massive decline in where we are in the oecd in seventh to 28th is just out of 36 countries enormous. You see that the fact that were leaving four and a half trillion dollars on the so so what are our. Options one we can just say okay were going to go along with the partial workforce, partial care, and were going to have to cut all sorts essentials. And you see that in the arguments for cutting some of the most Important Program we have from social security, medicare here to cuts in support for food for families this month and Everything Else. The other path is to say, lets grow our economy it markedly and able to afford things the way to make that growth is to ensure that all americans can, that nobody is dropping out of the workforce when they dont want to. And we can do that its a more economically successful strategy and its a strategy that values every life much more deeply. Yeah thats really interesting we. Got a question as you were speaking from, Heather Mccullough with the Aspen Institute Financial Security program and she wondering how do we get u. S. Policymakers and Business Leaders to acknowledge that . Gender equity is an economic imperative. And i think its a its such an important question. I mean, obviously, your book really centers the economy in some interesting ways youre talking about equality in a pretty broad. You know, its civic, its political its its not just about has the money in their bank account but the economy really is quite central to your arguments and to the way you make your case. If you have anything to add there about how do we get u. S. Policymakers to care mean this seems to be just this that is not going away. And then i also think i would add on to that question you know it seems like there are some moments when its easier to make the case, right . When workplaces. Are shutting down, when schools are shutting down. You, hey, without womens labor without caregivers labor this country just ceases to work. But then you have inflation you have a tightening. Things are its getting harder for workers. And then it becomes a lot harder to say, hey, gender equality really matters. As you know, theres its more clambering for good jobs and people feel maybe a little bit of fear in the workplace how their activism or their agitation in may be may be regarded. So, you know, i do want to close off this conversation by more about solutions and what we do about this. So maybe we just start here like what is the case that we need to make . And obviously youve seen some global examples of this. So if you have know some inspiration, i know a lot of folks in the u. S. Who are sort of in the room with us right now would love some inspiration and some insight there. So, i mean, ill take a first go at this and then pass to leader. I want to say something. The u. S. And then then something globally on the u. S. The good news is that, if you ask americans across Political Party theres wide agreement a lot of foundation more aspects such as should parents be able to afford to take leave to be with their infants. Yes you hear that across parties when you ask people should you be able to take leave to care for a sick Family Member say appropriate to pay and have that be paid leave again the answer is yes. Do across parties do people want to be able to care for a sick. Yes. So i think have that to build on. So are some things we dont have that we need. I do think that we need congress to start looking at the long term benefits of policy as well as their short term costs. We companies do this. This is how they do investments. They dont not invest in r d. They dont not invest in infrastructure because theyll make a ton of money later. But it costs something now as a country. We to do that. And the care infrastructure is a big part of that. Thats one of the biggest examples of where that early investment will yield later. And we do our private sector leaders who right now there are a number of Companies Providing these benefits, but theyre theyre paying for the as opposed to social insurance. And those who arent providing the benefits are paying by losing employees, by turnover. We do need more of our private sector leaders to come forward and say we need to pass this essential infrastructure so a hopeful story. Ill just ill just give one for time. An example sadly its a Group Insurer that got child care employment. It was actually a case where there was supposed to be child care guarantees. They started by two women who found old law wasnt being implement it. But what did they do with this gets to my example they Public Awareness they built tolls oceans across the Government Civil Society companies that showed it could be done and they would make more money doing it. Ill give one more example for people who might be listening from south africa. For people who might be listening, who are like, well, what can i do as an individual . There was a father in south africa, had premature twins, was aware she got the most he could to take time. But most south africans couldnt. Called every Single Member of parliament out of this re inspired coalitions that got built across unions and Civil Society. A group called sonke has leave theyre now working paid elder care leave. Because he wouldnt have happened to other people. Keep up. Ill stop there. Thats beautiful. Alita, i want to. I want to hear some inspiration. You, too, that you take away from the book. Thats a fantastic case. We do have another question, actually. You touched on this about labor unions, because, you know, i we often think of sort of workplace labor activism as separate in some ways from from government action, from policy action. But it seems like theyre really linked together. And of course, in the u. S. , we have really low rates of of union membership. But is there a link between what you in other countries in terms of activist unions or unions taking on caregiver issues sort of as their own and the ability to pass some of the youre talking about here today, either either of you. Im to start in and then pass it to a leader you know i just want to say know unions unions have done two things in different settings both within countries and countries. One is, do the important work of advocating for change in their workplace. That doesnt necessarily change policy. The other thing theyve which has played a crucial role in changing policies is in addition she is a core advocating for policy change. And i think the collective voice that brings the experience of millions of workers is so important to that celp african example i gave cosatu the coalition of south african unions was played a central role in ensuring that parental was passed. But we, we see this in europe, see this in other settings. So think its very powerful for with that collective brings a voice to policy makers as well as to workplaces. Anything that i just one quick thing i would add you know jodys this a couple of the case studies that we included in the book. We have one one chapter that really goes into about how change has happened on. A variety of policy areas across countries. But on our website we actually also put up the videos of interviews with some of the the Key Stakeholders and key change makers and. These processes including in jordan and south africa, uganda a few other places. So if you want to hear about processes of changing policy in, the words of of people who really move to them thats also available on our launch page, world policy and elsewhere, world center dot org sasikala die within our lifetimes. You know, i know we only have a couple more minutes, so i dont want to take up all the time. The last pieces i was going to highlight just in terms of hope and progress are a few other areas law where we have seen progress over the past five years, even if been incremental, even if there are gaps we are seeing changes in law new laws being passed. So maybe ill just go through really quickly, just a couple more slides then close it out in this. Yeah, ill go really fast. Thats great for us. Had written in and also asking about what stands in the way of more of these gender based antidiscrimination provisions. Well touch on that as well. Sure. So i just want to just start looking again at im sorry, were going to the next slide. Yeah. So returning to what jody, raised at the beginning about these disparities in protections across different, different aspects work again protections are lowest in access to and promotions these gaps that really to advancement but there has been change across all areas even just from 2016 to 2021 as you can see on this slide, if we go to the next one which looks at multiple discrimination again, again among women, we know there are a vast inequalities that work based on race, migration, disability, aspects of identity. So just prohibiting discrimination on gender is insufficient to reach much the discrimination women face at work. But here too, you can see that protections are rising without across countries. Just as one example, jody mentioned earlier, theres been a lot of progress around Sexual Orientation and gender identity in the law, even though those receive the lowest protection globally. But from 2016 to 2021, six countries passed new laws prohibiting discrimination based on Sexual Orientation. Ten countries did so for gender identity. So we are seeing notable movement in a short time period and we go to next slide. Just one final quick example before i pass it back. So looking at Sexual Harassment laws, so since metoo, when global in 2016, weve seen 11 countries pass their first workplace Sexual Harassment law, as jody mentioned. You know, theres still a quarter of countries that have nothing and thats a huge gap and a huge problem. But these 11 passed laws for the first time, others closed gaps, their lives. So were seeing progress that that and we just have to take action to accelerate that progress if were actually going to have a shot achieving equality in the in the short term. Thank you i mean what i really love about the book is that it takes something that i think lot of us care about maybe get in the on get drawn into conversations about you know are the origins gender inequality natural. You know is it can a culture really change and instead you just say like, look at these laws, you know, look the look at the way these laws are stacking the deck and it gives something so concrete to look to when it comes to change. You know, as the theres the cases you provide show theres no no one place to start or know when it comes to creating change you start from wherever youre at and whether its in your workplace or your your civic, you know, you, you agitate for these policies from from wherever that standpoint is. And i think it just gives a really good sense of hope to see this progress thats been happening internationally. And and theres just no reason really why it shouldnt happen in the u. S. Were not so exceptional. Right. And i do take i do take a lot of hope from groups like the National Domestic workers alliance, nurses that have been fighting really hard for for better conditions during this pandemic, like the railroad workers, you know, hugely male profession, been shining the spotlight on a lack of time off during this pandemic. And like i said theres just like no theres no bad place start getting involved in in this work and i wonder if you can just say, you know, one thing that i also love about the book is, youre making it freely available to the public, which is just incredible. So, folks, if you theres a link on the bottom right hand of your screen, if you click it, you should be in seconds able to read this full book yourself and access all of this data. I want to give you the last word maybe, jodie, why was that so important to you . And what do hope to accomplish by by making this book so widely available. We believe it really takes all us to make this change happen. Each of our countries and we do think its within our reach. So that was absolutely the goal book. Were delighted through. University of California Press freely downloadable and if you dont time to read it to go the website, the briefs or maps briefer and then sure you have time to reach out with your group whether. Thats a Civil Society group, a union group. We heard from the Aspen Institute, wherever youre based, if were all working together, we can make these things happen and reach out to us and help in any way because were we believe this is a journey that were on together and need to accelerate. How fast we get there. Thank you so much. Its been a joy with you both today and congratulations on the book and i hope everybody here in the audience find some time to look through it and reach out to the authors. As they said, they couldnt be more generous with their time and their expertise and i wish everybody a