Transcripts For CSPAN2 Book TV 20150419

[inaudible] you change most of the book so it would be his store and not an american retelling it. But you would have a history and so much involvement with stories similar to what you write about. I was wondering how much of this book like you would connect to your own experience of how much is just from knowing people in these situations and just going off of that and come up with their own back stories of . You know, like when im writing sometimes i feel like its as though im standing in a field of kind of kneehigh dry grass. And im trying to my up to clemson ahead and im trying to make a fire. So i am banging this was to get as hard as i can. To flints represent, they are always a real inexpensive mic on something that has happened to me. From those im striking together and trying to make sports. And when i get it right in right in windows works forms will find a light that field on fire. Everything that gets on fire is imagination, but none of it starts without the to flints. The flints are not in the book. On the field on fire is coming but it is the flints that basically gets that fire going. Does that make sense . I think we will wrap up another for those of you thank you so much, elliott. [applause] elliott action as a train to catch, but there is can we about five or so minutes and you will come to the front and for those of you who didnt get your book signed, we will make time to do that. And have a great evening. Thank you so much for coming. [applause] every weekend booktv offers programming focus on nonfiction authors and books. Keep watching for more on cspan2 come and watch any of our past programs online at booktv. Org. Spiff about to speak a bit about hitler. Hitlers image has changed over the years. Today hitlers attempted extermination of the jewish race takes center stage. So it is easy to forget that its just as methodical but killing off the slavs and he was possibly even more efficient. He killed 27 million russians 16 of the population. He boasted a plan to turn russia and poland into slave nations the Company Announced would be very different for me conflict in the west. And poland was the only country outside the fatherland were death camps were constructed. To serve a dual purpose of finishing off russians as well as polls, three of the polish death camps were built virtue on the polish russian border. He instructed his general to level leningrad to target the buildings. His directive was quote, it is intended to surround the city and then raise it to the ground. Requests to be allowed to surrender will be rejected. We have no interest in preserving me part of the population of that largest city. Hitlers master plan called for the uprooting of the remaining polish ukrainian, belarusian and russian to replace them with germans and produce bounty harvest for for for the growing germination. Given this mindset, it followed that all russian soldiers taken prisoner were routinely brutalized, tended to open fields can sometimes start to death to death by exposure had not killed enough of them. More than half of the russian soldiers that were captured died. Another area of the agreement roosevelt and stalin discovered was a both polygamous and a matter of time no matter what postwar measures were taken before germany went again rise up. Stalin sought from fdr and alliance that would stop working with the next tech the fdr natives and it dovetails with this mindset. He kept emphasizing that the four powerful nations come where the four policemen would later take form with the addition of france as the permanent members of the Security Council would ride herd on the rest of the nations. At the tehran conference rosa was housed in the russian embassy. He assumed by the way that is rooms would be bugged. Stalin developed a habit of dropping by his room to make sure he was being well taken care of. A woman who spoke english remembered that she happened to see stalin one morning when he was somewhere fdrs suite come and, obviously, intent on visiting the president. She translated stalin asked, may i come in . Roosevelt said well. The conversation began with stalins simple questions to roosevelt or how are you . Did you have a good sleep . The president replied yes i had a good sleep. I like it here. However, the frogs kept croaking in the pot and i could not fall asleep. I turned around and said to her and look at stalin and agitation i forgot what was the russian for frog. I said those little yellow animals croaking in the pond did not let the president of the u. S. A. Sleep. According to her, all the frogs were killed. Before the final session at tehran can fdr decide to approach stalin at stalin had approached him. Fdr felt he needed back into the city make stalin except the planes which included an acceptance of power restraints. On the last full day at tehran to me went about getting it in his own peculiar way. As was later told Frances Perkins and his secretary of labor, finally, the first woman in a cabinet position he felt drastic measures were called for because otherwise what we were doing could have been done by the foreign ministers. His campaign to get personal with stalin was that churchills expense. As they entered the Conference Room from fdr recounted, i just a moment to say to him, winston i hope you will not be sort me for what im going to do. Or choose reduction had been to shift his sigar in his mouth and grunt. As soon as they receded about the table rows of recounted to perkins, i talked privately to stalin. I didnt do anything that i hadnt said before but it appeared quite chummy and confidential. Enough so that the other russians joined us to listen. Still, no smile from stalin. And i said, licking my hand up to cover whisper, which, of course, had to be interpreted, winston is so cranky this morning, he got up on the wrong side of bed. A vague smile passed over stalins eyes and i decided i was on the right track to begin to tease that churchill about his britishness, about his cigars, about his habits. They begin to register with stalin. Winston got red and scowled and the more he did so the more stalin smiled. Finally, stalin broke out into a deep hearty laugh, and for the first time in three days i saw life. I kept it up until stalin was laughing with me and then it was that i called him uncle joe. You would have thought me fresh the day before, but that day he laughed and came over and shook my hand. From that time on, relations were personal. You can watch this and other programs online at booktv. Org. Welcome to st. Augustine florida, on booktv. Founded in 15 certificate is the oldest continuously occupied european settlement in the United States. With help of our contact Cable Partners of the next 90 minutes we will speak with local authors as one about the city of some of its historic including a look at Henry Flagler to develop the east coast of the state into a tourist destination. Destination. He realized he needed to own the railroad between jacksonville and Saint Augustine to ensure that guests could get to his hotel conveniently. He built the First Railroad bridge across the st. Johns river in jacksonville so the people could make it from new york to st. Augustine without changing trains. Later we will visit the st. Augustine the Historical Society. We had a wide range of material. For example, with the first journal for the city council under the United States territorial act. We have a small war journal. We also have a fascinating little piece which was a st. Augustine link and it relates to warren g. Harding. The first weeks for the mission of Nombre De Dios and learn about the franciscan monks who help settle the area. Next on booktv former Navy Seal Sniper and iraq we are at the mission grounds, mission is Nombre De Dios. It is the place where in september of 1565 menendez the first explore here to this part of the state landed here not far from us and celebrated the first mass here at this site. This area has been a shrine for many, many years and is particularly important, if you notice behind the church come this is the church that is dedicated to our lady. Our lady of the mill and it was a devotion that was about the Roman Catholic world but in particular it was brought from spain in the 1600s rod over from spain and was put in this area, a this area, statue, it became a very popular site for those who wanted to come to pray in general in both support of mary but in particular it became well known for those who are struggling to conceive. And it was a natural link and between mothers and this site. Its particularly important i think in light of the people that lived in this area because it is every we have different groups of Indigenous Peoples and among them in their culture pass power through the maternal line. Of power was passed through the maternal line which meant that the role of the women was very important to the tribes the nco as christianity was introduced here come the devotion to mary not only reflected a catholic view of the world and the role of mary that it has special link i believe with the peoples of this area recognized the importance of mothers in their tribal culture. The purpose was for many years there have been attempts to have the spanish cell in florida, and the attempts failed for various reasons. The french had established an outpost in the area of jacksonville and it was a group of french come and the spanish wanted to make sure that the french didnt gain a foothold here. In august and is a police is important when you think about trade. Because this wouldve been a place where potentially a treasure galleons that were coming from the caribbean would pass by in this area before they would head out over the ocean. So there was a Strategic Point of being here but its important to remember that all politics and economics were crucial factors there was also a religious mandate that Pedro Menendez had received from the king that he was supposed to evangelize, nor did he was supposed to bring the catholic faith to the people here. And so this was the intent that he right from the very beginning established. Franciscans who although a doctor francis of assisi a very small town north of rome. Francis was an up and coming business man took his father was inin the cloth trade. He had a remarkable encounter outside of the walls of the city one day with the lepers and he was struck by the lepers and was moved in some mysteries ways, he says to exchange his riches whether poverty pics we begin to live and work with the lepers and pretty soon any number of young people from sec both men and women were inspired to follow. What happened was very very quickly this movement, this local movement from this Old Town North of rome began to spread very rapidly through europe. By the time of Columbus Columbus himself had been highly influenced by the franciscans to estimate effective in consultation with them prior to his coming to the United States. So the franciscans and if youre the franciscan view of life is something that was very well known by columbus and the spanish royalty were very much in favor of getting the franciscans to come to the new world. So with that can menendez had some contact with franciscanscome and through the king of spain was able to appeal to the franciscans to come. So what happens is in 1573 12 franciscans show up at this is not by chance that there are 12. Is very much model of the 12 disciples which premiered earlier in mexico in the very famous historical circumstances and franciscan studies the first 12 apostles went to mexico to begin to evangelize there. So the friars team had established their first outpost which was the content in town convent. We did do this book on the spanish borderlands franciscans in california, arizona, texas and florida. What marx marks and distinctions the franciscan experience in florida is that when they arrived here they encountered a group of people that add a class structure that they could relate to. In other words, there was a clear hierarchical order to the indigenous societies. So the spanish made an effort to recognize the individual classes and offered corresponding rewards, gifts if you will a recognition of their status within the society. Which meant that as opposed to some other areas they were able to integrate into the society fairly easily compared to some other parts proud of the country or of the new world. What happened here is that the franciscans were following intentionally or not the early model of francis of assisi who said she should go is one of the ways of proclaiming the gospel is to go and live with the people. What we find is instead a big monastery being built and Indigenous Peoples been brought to the monasteries, the franciscans went out pretty much often one by one come live in some of these different villages and formed what were called where they would teach the doctrine of the faith in the village and then they had numerous places, outlying areas where they would go to visit and proclaim the faith. So it would be i think, would not be true to say there were no problems, no struggles, in contrast and comparison to different franciscan evangelization efforts come as close Something Special happened here in florida. Franciscans who were here, especially people like the introduced a way of writing so that they were able to put their spoken language into a written form with the grand which means it is the first indigenous written grammatical language in the United States. So it was not simply standing on a Street Corner and preaching to it was a whole educational system that the franciscans have set up and decided already in spain, and this was a worldwide effort because nations are going on in peru going on in the philippines and the same things are kind of either they were doing here which means you have native indigenous authors in florida already around 1600 which has really changed our understanding of the Indigenous People of the area. When you spend so of course they would have symbols, and there was a symbol of the cross that was here and the spanish would kneel before and kiss it. We see Indigenous Peoples here also doing the same thing. In other words they connect religion or worship if you will do particular symbols. So that was one way that they communicated. Records from the different churches in this area over 200 years the franciscans were here, not just franciscans there were secular priests as welcome we recognize the rollout of images and statues here. In other words, the churches were clearly filled with paintings, statues. So that was one of the most if you will direct ways of transmitting the faith through the visual. Also we have reports, we have records that the spanish also introduced the Indigenous Peoples to music. Music became an incredible way of transmitting the faith that because they would sing. This is a very franciscan wakeup evangelization goes back to francis of a sissy, the first into a literary piece. Franciscans have been sent for had that since i believe that they still do that language is a very important part of praising god, spreading the faith your music, poetry, all these giveaways that you can get people involved with the word become essential to evangelization. So that if you will prided themselves i think in a certain way and indigent in time and time in the chronicles and letters that they made a special effort to learn the language of the people. So we know from different accounts that there were any number of franciscans who were at least able to function, divided up into different dialects, but a number of franciscans were able to preach, teach in those languages. This is the longest continuing city, colonial city in the United States. Another part of the stored a signature before that the franciscans were your two centuries before the franciscans arrived to evangelize in california. Occulter can remember, 200 years is a pretty decent period of time. So for 200 years, almost two centuries there was a thriving if you will multiethnic culture that was filtered through spanish piety, spanish politics from spanish economics and it still shows not only if you look at some of the places, but the whole layout of the city the practice is is a wonderful wonderful place we can see how the other story of the United States, which is not told from is incredibly important. Its important not just because of what it says about florida and the United States, because of the international dimension. This place was come along for internationalization became sort of a buzzword, this place was marked by different peoples as i mentioned, ethnic groups cultures, languages, trade and religion. This weekend booktv is in st. Augustine, florida, with help of our local cable partner comcast. Next we visit the st. Augustine Historical Societys Research Library with chief library bob nawrocki. We are standing today at the kirby smith after this was built in 1780, and the building was given to the st. Augustine Historical Society, and in march 3, 1995 a Historical Society Research Library opened up in this building. Today with a wide range of material, for example we have led to art that was done by those held captive in the four to 40 marion. Where the seminal war journal. We have a fascinating little piece which is which has a st. Augustine link and it relates to warren g. Harding. We also have the first of journal for the city council under United States territorial act, and almost from the first day that the society was founded we have been trying to collect documents images and other material relating to the history. St. Augustine was founded 450 years ago this year. At its of the oldest continuously occupied european city in the United States. So here at the st. Augustine Historical Society we try to collect material to allow people to be able to research that historic and also to sort of make the entire United States aware of the importance of st. Augustine. In 1763, as part of the treaties that ended the french and indian seven years working the french and indian war in the United States, the british had captured cuba havana and the spaniards in order to retake havana and cuba trade of florida to the british. So we had two primary governors under the british period come in here for 20 years. There was government grant and governor tommy. So we were very lucky and get a volunteer who went through the Colonial Office papers from the Public Records Office in london. These were on microfilm, who went to those documents and abstracted all of the documents that related to st. Augustine. So we have a cubic foot of the transcribe material that talks with his you st. Augustine during that period of time. So he we have come in 1767 we talk about orders from his majesty and counsel david 1764. Tracts of land blackberry. We have information about the pork being damaged by hurricane to request to have carpenters put the port and state a defense against a possible indian attack the we also have a letter number one which is a royal proclamation of 1763 saying that none were allowed to settle. These are the governing documents which establish a colony was to be established. The british were very big into sort of a mercantile colony. Governor grant, establish plantations. Cotton indigo and so he was interested in what kind of exports the colony could make. The Spanish Adult different attitude toward the victor moore about using protection against, for the treasure fleets heading to spain. So these documents would leave until the colony was covered whose government that can what rules were established to all of the mundane things. Between 176370 safety for all of the spanish inhabitants of st. Augustine left the they all go down to cuba. During the 20 years the british were here to establish this plantations. Many of this plantations were described in plantations were described in the cost of ago the plants that were growing. Towards, welcome the revolution and war was going on st. Augustine was also home to many of the royalist who are fleeing the revolution of war in the south. During that period of time account expanded as more and more loyalists escaped the wars in the carolinas and georgia. And in 1776 after the signing of the treaty of paris, the british lock, stock and barrel moved out in the loyalists went to possibly to various caribbean islands, possibly back to include. What we have here is the first set of City Ordinances when st. Augustine was established under the territorial governance. We had a City Council Previous to that period of time under the Spanish Government for a short period of time and but this is kind very special because it is the actual first writing of our minister accordance. The ordinance was the ordinance to provide to revise and confirm certain ordinances from formal council. To create officers of the city marshal. So when they were trying to begin to set up the government, these are all of the ordinances and organizational material they required in order to establish that. During the 1870s and 1880s plains indians and apaches were brought from they were usually the leaders of the various bands or quoteunquote troublemakers. They were brought to st. Augustine and they were housed at fort marion. The native americans there were put into uniforms. They were taught to read and write english, taught practical skills, the idea was at the time that these individuals would be quoteunquote civilized and, therefore, when they returned back to arizona or the planes they wouldnt cause quoteunquote trouble. Jackson pratt was individualistic is that he was the one who eventually went on to found the Carlisle Indian school in carlisle pennsylvania. So the indians can the native americans had a couple of options to make some money. They made bows and arrows which they sold to northern tourists who came down here. Theres examples of a couple of powwows or so of buffalo bill wild west type shows that were held using native americans. They also created letter art on found papers using crayons largest ink and paper. Both document the life that they remembered as well as was happening in st. Augustine. So right now we have five different pieces that represent both of those aspects. So we have three pictures here. We have two riders on their horses. And this is especially this writer is firing again. This native american is time has been shot. Here we have two native americans on their horses. The native americans were taken to a circus, and so heres some examples. Two acrobats on a horse. So they have, one gentleman is holding up the other while they ride on the horse. And he we have an acrobat on the horse cant excuse me an acrobat on a horse while a gentleman holds a piece of would up to make the horse jump over. That to me look so much like a native american clown, whatever you would call that can possibly stand on a ball. I dont know if thats their interpretation of what a clown would look like. As well as we have two images of female horse riders riding horses and performing acrobatic tricks. In the 1830s and 40s, the civil war was an important aspect here in florida. There were three seminole wars and eventually the creates and what were called the seminoles the seminoles moved further south. It typed up a great deal of american soldiers at a time and we are very lucky to have a manuscript journal by a doctor whose time here in florida describing his title of it is life in camp infield, which is a serious incidents as well as sketches of what life was like in florida at the time. He was stationed in st. Augustine with the troops and as the troops were not in the field come as an army surgeon he was required to go up to the fields within so that if they got sick larry, various fevers or possibly they were shot or injured, and the doctor had to travel with them in order to take care of them and to get them back into health. So they are a number of completed yellow fever, we have malaria, the number of diseases that would fellow soldiers as well as bullets and arrows from the native americans, the seminal that they were fighting clear in about three weeks when our neighbors began to be too troublesome for a longer proximity. It has played to great of a faction to women by supplying them with, then went a soldiers greatest treasury, whiskey. Thereby injuring their morals and keep them constantly undercard tester for our two copies of the journal in existence. Theres a rough first draft document which is in florida Historical Society can and we are very lucky to have the second one which is corrected proofs were. I think he was planning on publishing this material. But he never did. But then in the 1950s he founded this material, transcribed, added Additional Information and published it as journey into wilderness so its an important resource, an important tool for understanding what was happening in florida at the time. So its a firsthand account of what was going on during the seminal war. And we have, this is the register for the st. Augustine link showing that Warren Harding played one of numerous games of golf here at st. Augustine. Before he became president while hethey determine whos going to be in his cabinet. So right at the top of this page we have warren g. Harding from mary in ohio. He had several golf club that he attended. So we played and none of the browns of golf here in st. Augustine. And thank you we have a picture of him. And by prejudice and in particular to shoot off but there he is in his outfit with his golf club. In those days got elected in november but you were not come you didnt take office until march so basically you at almost five months to make those decisions. So we try to be sure that the people have an understanding so they become grounded in what a history of the area was and how their life fits in to the history of the United States and the history of st. Augustine, florida,. You are watching booktv on cspan2 two. This weekend were visiting st. Augustine, florida, with the help of our local cable partner comcast. Next time we visit with other Thomas Graham whose book mr. Flaglers st. Augustine examines the life of Henry Flagler who is largely credited with developing floridas eastern coast into a tourist destination. We are in the grand bar of the Hotel Ponce De leon in st. Augustine, florida. This was the very of the most elegant winter resort hotel in the country when it opened in the 1880s and this room was used for receptions on occasions. President Grover Cleveland had a reception here. Admiral dewey had a reception here. President elect warren g. Harding in 1921 had a reception here. So its a room that is full of history. The Hotel Ponce De leon was built by Henry Morrison flagler. Now, flagler is a man who is very little known outside of the state of florida, but he was one of the wealthiest man in america. Essentially have been a cofounder of Standard Oil Company with the john d. Rockefeller. And in the early years of standard oil, rockefeller and flagler were best friends. They had homes on euclid avenue in cleveland near each other. When standard move its headquarters to new york city, rockefeller and flagler had homes across the street from each other on fifth avenue. In their office back in cleveland, they pushed their desks together back to back so that they could hand documents back and forth to each other. Flagler was standard oils railroad man. He was the person who worked out the deals with the railroads in new york and pennsylvania and ohio to all standard oils products. And flagler was noted for driving hard bargains, that he would get rebates from the railroads which would be reduced rates for flaglers, for standards products. And i gave standard a big advantage over his competitors in that they could ship morcheeba over the railroads then they could. The other thing that flagler did was that he imagined the idea of the Standard Oil Trust a way of combining various Refining Companies into one big organization. I think Henry Flagler was looking for a new challenge. He was a man who always wanted to undertake some great enterprise. And as it turned out, florida was it. He had invested in florida in the early 1880s because another of his neighbors on fifth avenue in new york was henry b. Plant a Railroad Builder in the south, who was building a Railroad Line down to tampa on the west coast of florida. And flagler invested some money in plants enterprises. Later on when both flagler and plant were very active in florida, they essentially divided the state rather than compete with each other. Plant took the west coast and flagler took the east coast and they both built railroads and they both built hotels. They were friendly competitors. When flagler decided to build the Hotel Ponce De leon to begin his Florida Enterprises he realized that the industrial commercial revolution had created a large class of wealthy people and also of upper middle class people people who could take the time and who had the money to come to florida in the winter time. And thus he said what would they want . Well, they would want a modern hotel, one that had electricity that had modern bathrooms, one that had an excellent, uptodate kitchen and dining room, that had steam heat that had elevators, all the amemberties amenities that a First Class Hotel would have. And flagler gave this to them. But he gave it to them in the setting of a spanish p renaissance palace. He hired Thomas Hastings and john carer two young architects who later would go on to be the architects most notably of the New York Public Library and they turned what had been a marsh into a Luxury Resort hotel that looked like something that had been picked up from spain, from seville and brought over here and dropped down on the east coast in that was an old spanish town. In what was an old spanish town. St. Augustine was noted at the time still is, of course as the oldest city in america. So flagler was sensitive in coming up with a modern building but one that would fit in with the ambience of an old spanish town. Henry flagler was a hardheaded businessman. And at standard oil we saw him as a hardheaded businessman. But he was also somebody who had big ideas. At standard he was able to envision a giant corporation. And in florida i believe he came with a limited idea first; just build a hotel in st. Augustine. But i also believe that very quickly that dream expanded. For example he realized that he needed to own the railroad between jacksonville and st. Augustine to insure that guests could get to his hotel conveniently. He built the First Railroad bridge across the st. Johns river in jacksonville so that people could make it from new york to st. Augustine without changing trains. But in buying that railroad, he bought the rights to extend the railroad all the way to daytona beach. This was even before he had completed his hotels in st. Augustine. So clearly the dream was beginning to grow on flagler. And later on somebody asked him that question did you envision an empire that woulding extend all the way that would extend all the way to miami and key west . And flagler said yes. He was a man who had big dreams. He was a visionary. The big question is what impact did flagler have on florida history and on the future of florida. And would florida have developed the same way it did without flagler. Well, we dont know but i suppose you could guess that yes, florida would have developed pretty much the same way, but flagler certainly accelerated the process. So much of the east coast of florida was essentially wasteland until he built his railroad. You simply couldnt develop an area like palm beach or miami until you had secure rail transportation to the outside world. So flagler realized that he was pioneering, that he was opening up these areas to development. And it surprised even him. In his old age he said i always believed in the future of florida, but i didnt appreciate how quickly it would happen. During booktvs recent visit to st. August p steven, florida, we spoke to investigative journalist and professor tracy eaton who tells the story of a reformed bank robber in her book, bubba toothed bandit. Ive been a journalist since 1983, and i worked for seven daily newspapers before joining flagler or college as a disturb Flagler College as a teacher. And the last 12 years of my reporting career i was a correspondent for the dallas morning news, and i worked first in mexico city and then in havana cuba. In the year 2000 i was doing a story on tourism and i wanted to go to tobacco country in cuba, in western cuba. So i got onto a bus and helded out to western cuba headed out to western cuba. And when i was climbing aboard the bus this guy says hey, are you from dallas . And i said no im from denver, but i work for the dallas morning news. And he said, are you tracey eaton . And i said, yeah. He was like oh, i read your stories. And the guys name was john stanley, and it turned out he had a really interesting story. He had been a thief, a car thief. He specialized in robbing luxury automobiles, mercedes, porsche and bmw. He would take the vehicles down to mexico and sell them to government officials and people in Law Enforcement and others. And thats how he made a living. Eventually, there were charges against him, and he decided to stay in mexico to avoid the charges, so he was a fugitive for a while in mexico. At one point he thought things would be safe, and so he crossed the border, and i think six or seven years had passed. So he crosses the border and gets arrested because his name was in the system as a fugitive. So he gets caught convicted quos to prison goes to prison spent, i cant remember, six or seven years in prison. And at that point he gets out of jail and he decides hes going to turn his life around, and he became a crime p consultant but anticrime. He wanted to help Companies Like car dealers, you know avoid car thieves like him. And he even had a radio show called crime lives with john stanley in dallas. And so i thought he had a really interesting story, and i decided to write about it. And so i wrote a story about him, and then i saw him occasionally, you know when id go back to dallas, you know . Real nice guy, a gentleman. And a couple years go by and i think 2004 i get an email from someone saying hey, your friend john stanley got arrested for bank robbery in kansas city. So it turns out that the police found him at a parking garage with a fake moustache on that was half falling off. He was counting 8200 in cash from his most recent bank robbery and it was the end of a 34bank spree a crime spree. He just had snapped and went on the crime spree. It was hard for me to confirm for sure that he robbed 34 banks. There isnt finish thats what he claims. There isnt an actual record. He wasnt charged with that many robberies, but he said that he got so used to robbing banks that it was like a day at the office, you know . So he would go in, hes nicknamed the bubba toothed bandit because he would use fake teeth when he would go do these robberies. Hed usually wear a baseball cap, and he would be unshaven and then, you know, fill in some of the gaps in his beard with mascara and go into the bank, and he used a gun in his robberies, but he never shot anybody. And then a number of years go by and then year and a half two years ago i get a call at home from from a federal prison and its john stanley. And he told me that he hadnt talked to anyone, he hadnt talked to his family, his wife, his kids friends. He had gone into seclusion but now he wanted to tell his story and was i interested in hearing it . So im like, sure, yeah, id love to hear it. So i went out to texas and interviewed him at a prison in beaumont texas. And so i said, so john, why did you do this . He said, well, it was suicide by judge. He was depressed, and he wanted to go to prison for the rest of his life and wanted to rot behind bars. And he had, you know in his earlier life as a car thief, you know, when he went to jail for that, he had made an oath to a greek philosopher, to socrates he had made a promise to sakara tease that he was going to socrates that he was going to give up materialism and try and be a decent, lawabiding guy. So when he went on this bank robbing spree, he broke his promise to socrates and decided the only thing that was fit for him was to just die. So he, in effect, told the judge i did it, throw the book at me. Thats what the judge did give him 57 years. But he wont make it out of there alive. Hes scheduled to get out in the year 2062. I love stories about people, and, you know, whether its john stanley the bank robber or other people who kind of live life on the edge, you know . Ive interviewed lately ive been interviewing fugitives and other folks in cuba and, you know im curious about everything. Theres all kinds of stories that i would love to do, and i just dont have time. But, you know ive gone to cuba, and ive talked to some of the fugitives there, the americans who in the 60s and 70s hijacked planes and, you know fled to cuba. And one that i talked to recently hes accused of the killing of a patrolman in mexico. And he was a real interesting guy. He told me, you know, i asked him if he would ever come back to the United States and face charges, and he said no, man, im going to stay here. I go back there, theyd give me 100 years. Now, after the story came out that i did most recently about him, a lawyer in a defense lawyer in santa fe, new mexico got in touch with me and said, hey, can you put me in touch with charlie hill . So i helped them get in him get in touch and now charlie hill has a lawyer. And this lawyer told me that hes concerned that renewed u. S. cuba relations is going to somehow make it easier for bounty hunters to go down and try to grab people. So he thinks that these kinds of fugitives are less secure than they were before and he wants to try to protect him. So i guess time will tell how it all shakes out, but the cuban government has said that, you know theyve given political amnesty to these people and they dont intend to turn them over. Cuba is a challenging place to work, you know . Theres a International Press center that happened ms press handles press credentials. So if you go to cuba and want a press credential, you have to apply for it. So you tell the cuban government what stories you want to do. Youre supposed to specify what you want to cover, and then they either approve it, or they dont approve it. And so its, it can be difficult to get in sometimes because they may not like a story that youre doing. Ive done stories that have angered the cubans angered the cuban government and ive done other stories that theyve thought were fine. What i do through the whole thing is i try to make sure that there are open lines of communication so that if theyre mad about the story, at least they can vent they tell me about it, and because i think with communication you can resolve misunderstandings and kind of move ahead. And i think that on balance they see my reporting as fair. I dont think that they one official told me one time he was, this is at the Cuban Foreign my industry, and he said well i want you to know that i dont complain i dont tell you about every story that i dont like you write. So i guess they didnt complain about every single one. But, you know, i try to always treat people in cuba with respect, and so far its worked okay. But as you say its still a country that where there are serious limits on the press, and those reporters who really i take my hat off to are the independent journalists who are cubans living there in cuba and trying to report. Because they dont have all of the advantages of a foreign reporter there and some of them are subject to a lot more pressure than i was ever subjected to. I think Investigative Journalism is more important than ever before. First, lets just consider the amount of information out there. In less than three days google processes the same amount of information that all of mankind wrote down during all of Human History in every single country in any language. So all of written recorded history, you know, going up until the internet age google now processes all that information in just three days. So i think that journalists are valuable to try to help sort through that and separate fact from fiction. And so i like journalism because of the people that i meet the stories that i get to do. And then also i hope that some of the journalism that i do is done in the Public Interest and serves some kind of higher purpose. This is not just a story about money and oil its about people. The stakes are high. The territory sits atop 846 Million Barrels of oil worth billions of dollars whether it be trying to hold government officials accountable or, you know, exposing corruption or just telling people a little bit more about what our federal government does, you know . And so im really into all kinds of journalism, but Investigative Journalism is especially close to my heart because of the Public Service that i think it does. And next on booktvs recent visit to st. Augustine, florida, we hear from steve berry, author of the patriot threat. Mr. Berry examines the 16th amendment and income tax laws in the United States. I want to talk to you a little bit tonight about the new book, and then im going to talk some questions. I dont talk very long i like questions, so ask whatever youd like. I want to tell you a little story to start off to kind of get your imagination going. Imagine its 1913 and theres the United States congress, and its in the control of the republicans. And they are sort of labeled the party of the rush. This is when it began, actually, this label of the party of the rich. And they decide that theyre going to propose an amendment. Theyre going to say we are not the party of the rich, we actually are with the common folks. So were going to propose an amendment to the constitution to make it easier to implement an income tax. Now, prior to that time you could have income tax, but it was really hard to do. There was some impediments that make it almost impossible to implement it. Thats why we didnt really have any. But they want to make it easier so they proposed this amendment, and the idea was for it to fail. They actually didnt want it to pass. [laughter] they just wanted to show everyone that they were willing to do this. But incredibly, what happened was the Congress Approved it. They said yes, we like this amendment, send it to the states. And then all at once one state ratified, two, three four, five six, it just started going. And by 1913, february of 1913, they had enough states who had ratified it. At this point 34 states had ratified the amendment. It was sent to the secretary of state, and there were some questions that got raised, some questions in this whole process of whether or not the ratification had been done properly. The questions were so significant that the secretary of state asked the solicitor general of the United States what do you think . So he told him what he thought. He wrote it down in an opinion, and he sent it to him and he says you got some problems here be careful. Tread lightly. Dont go forward with this. Check it out. Secretary of state did what any good politician would do right . He ignored him. [laughter] he ignored him and declared the amendment in effect. Not ratified in effect. Now, you might think thats part of the novel and thats part of the fictional novel thats part of the story that i made up but everything i just told you is true. Everything i told you actually happened. And this is what got this going. This is what got this started this whole process of whether or not the 16th amendment to the constitution is a valid amendment or not. And thats what got minaj nation going. I said, well, what can i do with that . Then i found out something i never knew. It shocked me. 91 of all federal revenues come from income tax. Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket. Imagine what would happen if the income tax was declared invalid. You would have no revenues coming in. The federal debt accrues at the rate of 1 million a minute. You would literally go bankrupt. So is i thought about that. What would that do . How could you make that play . Well, actually it becomes as one of the characters says in the book the cleverest weapon of mass destruction ever devised. If you want a catchy phrase line there. And so the patriot threat was born this whole concept of this. And it revolves around Andrew Mellon and Franklin Roosevelt. Andrew mellon was secretary of treasury in the 1920s through three different president s. Thats quite amazing by the way, to get three separate president s to choose you as their secretary of treasury. How he managed to do that, no one really knows but i hypothesize a little bit in the novel about that, about how that might have happened. Andrew mellon and Franklin Roosevelt hated each others guts. They despised one another with a passion. Roosevelt blamed mellon for the depression mellon thought roosevelt was an opportunist who didnt know anything about anything. Were rank amateurs on that. Andrew mellon started that process in the 1920s when he turned the irs on his enemies. Well, roosevelt returned the favor, he indicted mellon for tax evasion. [laughter] he beat the charges and won so at the end theres this confrontation between these two giants on december 31, 1936, in the white house, it is the prologue of the novel. 90 of what youre going to read in that prologue actually happened. I added just a little bit. Just a little twist because ive got to entertain you. Added a little bit more to their feud than was really there. But most of it was true. And this is when the National Gallery of art was born. It was born at this point. Andrew mellon is the one who gave 8 million to the United States, and he wanted the National Gallery of art. He supervised that building, he did he was very hands on with it. He died eight months later, but he left specific instructions on how things were to be done, and they pretty much respected that. Andrew melon fdr 16th amendment, these are elements of the story. But then theres some more, a couple of more that have to put this all together. You know, weve changed all of our money, weve changed the 20 bill the 5 bill, the 100 bill, theyre all different now to the make them not for counterfeiters. Do you know theres a federal law passed by congress that forbids the changing of the 1 bill . Its interesting isnt it . It actually cannot be changed. Has to stay exactly like it is. That fascinated me. Why in the world would we have such a rule as that . And then theres some very interesting things on the face of the 1 bill that youre going to be a little bit shocked, these things that appear in there. And one in particular involves a man named hi man solomon. He was a jewish man who lived in new york city, but he moved to philadelphia. He was connected very strongly with robert morse who was the treasurer of the fledgling new United States. Hyman solomon is the man who financed the american revolution. He loaned his country 800,000 of his own money. To this day, that debt has never been repaid, by the way. Five Times Congress considered it five Times Congress said no. Do you know what that debts worth today . About 300 billion, depending on how you calculate it. [laughter] its, thats what its worth today. Hes never been paid back a dime. But hy match solomon was so critical that George Washington is said to have left a special thank you within the great seal of the United States. And its on the back of the 1 bill right now, and when you read the novel, youll know what im talking about see what im saying, youll see where it is. But its a very interesting symbol that is now on the back of the 1 bill as a thank you to hyman solomon. Solomon died in 1785, he never really saw the country become what it became, and his heirs tried to get the money back but they never could to this day. So hyman solomon plays a big role. And then, of course, theres cotton malone. Hes my recurring character, hes been in ten adventures, this is his 11th, and he is a retired Justice Department agent. He lives in copenhagen runs an old book shop, and he just cannot stay out of trouble. And in this case hes been sent on a simple little errand to take care of something for his old boss that turns into something much more. Ive always wanted to do a story under 24 hours. Most of my books are between two and a half to three days or four days. Charlemagne pursuit was the longest book ive ever done at two weekings. This one is 23 hours, so from start to finish its bam bam, bam. Theres a lot going on here. It takes place mainly for cotton over in venice and then in croatia. While we were on a cruise a couple of years ago, i swore it was a vacation, but it didnt become one. So i started looking around everywhere. So cotton, everything he does on that ship i tended to kind of do a little bit too. So that ship is part of this whole thing that he gets caught up in, and then he ends up in croatia while his boss is in washington washington d. C. Blithe and i went to the w elizabeth and i went to the fdr library in hyde park and overseas as well. When you go to the National Gallery of art, theres a paining in gallery 62 that forms a big part of this novel towards the end of the story. Its happening in gallery 62, its there. It contains some incredible symbolisms that will be very much youll be very fascinated by, i know i was. The painting is huge. Its probably, i dont know 15 feet or so wide about 89 feet tall. Has a big frame on it about this wide. Well, i made it up that the frame has a secret compartment in it. [laughter] i just made it up. [laughter] it has a little plug in the bottom right corner, and you go up in there and i just made it up. Well i went up there to do a little additional research, and i said well, ill just look down there. You can walk right up to the painting, and theres nothing to bar you. So i looked underneath it, and sure enough theres a plug in the bottomright corner. [laughter] so i crawled down on the floor, and of course, the guy who the curator guy comes rushing over there, and he says what are you doing . I told him so he crawled down with me. So were both on the floor and were looking at this plug up in there. And what it is, a plug that holds an iron pin that keeps the corner together. But it was still cool that there was a plug in the bottom right corner of this thing. [laughter] and i made the whole thing up. So when you go to the National Gallery of art and you go to gallery 62, you get down on the floor too, and youll see the plug right up in there. [laughter] you cant miss it. Its an amazing building, if youve never been in there. Its incredible what they did with that. And theres a lot of cool stuff inside the National Gallery. So let me see, thats what i came to tell you about with this novel. Let me take some questions, lets see what youve got on your mind because id really like to answer what youd like to talk about. Do you have something . Yes. Your books range all over the place in history from columbus to henry viii to congress in 1913. So when youre not writing books, are you just reading all kinds of history all the time . Not really. [laughter] because i when i do a novel, i read literally around 3400 books. Now, i dont read every word but i read large chunks of the books. So when your done, it may be 100 plus books if you do them cover to coffer. In this particular book i read about Andrew Mellon, about roosevelt, ability about the 16th amendment about the ratification process of an amendment which i didnt i didnt know. I usually dont just get to read history for fun. Every once in a while ill come across a book thats for fun. Im reading one on the smithsonian now thats interesting. So every once in a while ill get to do that, but its mainly for the research of it. Ill tell you about the ratification of amendment two, i didnt know this. The secretary of state today its the archivist of the United States this particular person declares an amendment ratified. So when an amendment goes out they wait until the states report in and say yes yes yes, no, no. They keep a tally. When they hit 34 today itd be 38 when they hit 38, the official declares the amendment ratified. The Supreme Court of the United States ruled in the 1920s that a decision by the official that an amendment is ratified is unreviewable by a court. Unreviewable. His decision is final. Now, thats amazing. What if hes wrong . And not only that, what if he knew he was wrong, you know . That his own lawyer told him he was wrong, and he ignored his own lawyers advice and went ahead anyway . Its a fascinating legal principle and a fascinating thing that kind of butts heads with one another. And that of course butts heads in the novel. I couldnt resist, i had to use that in there. Other questions . Yes, sir. I understand you used to be a lawyer. When did you decide to become a writer . It wasnt a sudden thing. Im a recovering lawyer, by the way. [laughter] any lawyers sneer. [inaudible] i was a politician yes. [laughter] i served in office 12 years as a county commissioner and school board member, but mainly county commissioner for 12 years. I it wasnt sudden. All during the 1980s i had a little voice in my head that told me to write, and every writer ive ever met has a little voice in their head that tells them to write. I dont care who you are. I talked to jim patterson, yes, i had a voice in my head. It doesnt tell you to write a bestseller and sell a bunch of books, it just tells you to sit down and write. If you do, ill hush, if you dont, ill keep nagging at you. I ignored it for ten years. Finally in 1990 i wrote a manuscript that was about that tall when i was done. 170,000 words which also tells you how bad it is too. A novel should be about 110 105. Its almost two novels. It was horrible. But its the greatest thing i ever wrote, its the most special thing i ever wrote. It sits on my desk to this day. The its the only thing ive ever kept in manuscript form and the reason is because i started it and i finished it. 90 of all writers dont finish what they start and i actually finished that thing, so its so special to me. Its incomprehensible as far as reading goes. You know why it is . I wrote it like a lawyer. Do you know how lawyers write . Oh yeah. [laughter] just keep saying it enough until its true. The object of fiction writing is to say it once. Now, both of those are very difficult to do, by the way. But you dont want to mix them. Do not mix them. Took me about seven years to break myself of writing like a lawyer and get it out of my system. Lawyers write passively, passive voice. I had to get all of that out of my system to get an active voice going and get it all in there. So it was a long process. It took me 12 years from the day i wrote that first word until the day i sold my first word. I wrote eight man you scripts during that time, five went to publishing houses, they were rejected. Finally on the 86th time the amber room got bought and made it and that was 2003. And ive been very lucky. Since that time each book has built on one before it until eventually in 2008 i got to quit the practice of law, and i write full time now. Yes, sir. [inaudible] do you know where youre headed to . Yes yes. You have to be that way. I its important that you have an idea. I get asked all the time where do you start a book. Thats a fair question, by the way, where do you start a novel . Theres a simple answer to that question. The question is you start a novel as close to the end as possible. As close as you can get to the end. So what does that presuppose, by the way . Youve got to know the end, right . So you have the end and you gets a close as you can get to it. So, yes, i outline about 100 pages ahead of myself, so i stay ahead of myself outlining. I inevitably catch up. Theres always that catchup p because you can write faster you can outline. You realize a writer spends 90 of their time thinking about what to write and 10 of their time actually writing it. So thats the way it works out. You spend most of your time thinking about it. Inevitably, i catch up to myself, but i try to stay 100 pages if i can. It changes all the time, and you have to be prepared to make that change i dont have the time to outline the novel all the way through. I have to do a novel once a year. Publishers have this dumb rule. Its the stupidest rule ive ever heard in my life they will not give you a check unless you give them a book. [laughter] i mean, they call it an advance, for god sakes. Why dont they just give it to you no, it doesnt work that way. They have that rule, and so i have to give them this manuscript, and they will give you that check and unfortunately, now, this is my living. So yes, i do have that sort of planned where im going. But it does fluctuate. The ending of this book changed when i got to the very end. I tripped it up a little bit. I like it better the way it came out. Yes, sir. I thought it was interesting, your comments on the shift in the Republican Party philosophy in the second decade of the 20th century. And im just wondering thinking back what impact the great orr or story skills of William Jennings bryan in the last part of the oh it had a lot to do with this because he was proincome tax. He was very much in favor of the 16th amendment. You can understand what was happening in america in 1911 and 123 remember, this is a president ial election, and you remember Woodrow Wilson is coming into office. Weve just gone through like, three straight administrations of Republican Leadership and now a democrat, a progressive democrat has been elected. Americas shifting from the right back over to the left again. Were shifting over. Now, world war is on the way. We dont know this at that moment, they dont know that, but its coming and theyre shifting. And then Theodore Roosevelts back in the picture. He wants the presidency back, so he comes out in favor of the income tax. Hes in favor of it. So you have factions of the Republican Party wanting it so a lot of politics going on here. And i might explain one thing you may not understand because its fascinating to me. Do you know why there was never an income tax prior to the 16th amendment and why we needed the 16th amendment . Heres why its really interesting. The Founding Fathers hated the idea of an income tax. They hated it completely. They called it a direct tax, and direct taxes to them smacked of the monarchyment and they despised them monarchy. And they despised them with a passion. So they built into the constitution a little safeguard to prevent it from happening and its called apportionment. Heres how it works, heres what the fear was the large states where the people lived were afraid that the small states would get into congress, outvote them and create a direct tax on every individual. So they created apportionment and they said heres the deal whatever the large state raises, then the little states have to raise the same amount of money. So the people in the little states pay more per person than the people in the big states so that the total amount of money equals out apportioned between all of the states. Its a back door way of saying never do this. [laughter] because who would do that . Who would, who would itd be very unfair, dont you think . Someone living in montana pays ten times the rate of someone living in florida simply because of so it was back door way to never have is an, never have that tax. And we never did have direct taxes, by the way, until the 16th amendment came along. And all it does if you read the amendment, is it takes away the apportionment requirement. Its gone now. You dont need it anymore. So thats why it got easy to put the income tax into place. And thats the whole reason why the amendment was put there. But the apportionment rule was very clever. The Founding Fathers would roll over today, no way they ever envisioned taking 39 of someones income and taking it and giving it to the federal government. They never envisioned that ever yes, sir. How does historical fiction help us understand history . Well, if its done correctly and accurately, it can be a great teaching tool, yes, it can. Because history is a story. I talked to some educators a few years ago in tennessee, they brought me up to talk to all the history teachers in tennessee, and we talked about it for a day, about how to teach history. And history today, to me is taught not in a good way. Its a lot of facts and figures, itll bore you to tears, and the kids hate it. Its about story. We need to tell a story. Now, it has to be an accurate story, you know, to some degree but historical fiction and in my case mine are modern international suspense thrillers with a historical element to it. I think it gets people interested. I think when you finish this book, you may want to go learn about some of these subjects. Itll spur your interest is what im hoping. Now, in my books i do something that other people in my genre dont do, i put a very extensive authors note in the novels and i tell you everything thats true and everything thats false. Because i dont want you to leave there thinking something real, and its not. Usually its the other way around, you think somethings false, and youre going to find out that its true. Theres one little caveat to this, do not read it first. [laughter] i got a horrible email from a lady one day why i put that writers note in there, it ruined the entire novel. [laughter] of course; i wanted to write back and say, you know, we put it in the end of the book for a reason, but she couldnt help it. [laughter] because its really designed that when youre done, you can go through and i reference everything by chapter, so you can go through and put pick it out. So i think these books have a good, you know, a function. Now, youve got to keep in mind its not necessarily a good idea to get your history from a novel because its by definition, not real. But its a good starting point. Its a good way to get you excited and started about something. Other questions . Yes, maam. When you do your research, do you find that online Media Digital media are helpful to you . Well [inaudible] i dont do as Much Research online as you might think simply because a lot of its wrong. Now, if i need a quick fact like, you know what president was andrew jackson, you know, what number was he if i need a quick fact yeah i might by the way you might think thats easy. I actually forgot one day about he was the seventh or the eighth president , i couldnt remember. I went on, i got like four different numbers. [laughter] so you cant even go there. But there are some web sites that are very helpful. The cia has a wonderful web site if you need facts or information about various countries. I use the internet like a giant index, for me. Its a way to go and get my imagination going and see where i want to go and then i go and get the books. I do 90 of my research at the chapman book mine. You ever been there . [laughter] yeah, its in jacksonville. I go in there and buy books by the box loads. I go in and get, you know, aup or so books and go through them, take em back, trade em back in and start over again and i go through that process. Ive done that now for 25 years and i was just there yesterday. If you go there enough his history section is massive. Hes got thousands of volumes of this history and he keeps getting new stuff every single day. Its always different every time you go there. Its massive. So i do most of my research there. Not necessarily online as much. Yes, maam. St. Augustine is almost in your backyard. You dont have to get in your airplane, we have a lot of his friday from spanish history from spanish to Henry Flagler is there something here that intrigues you . There is. Its going to be in 2018. [applause] its not going to be indiana comment, though indiana comment, though its going to be more modern. Something interesting in the Civil Rights Era in 2018 that does intrigue me, that does intrigue me about here, and i wanted to explore it a little bit more. So that book that sounds like a long way away, by the way but i will actually start writing that book coming up january. You stay a year ahead in the book business, so i would write that book in 16 turn it in in 17 to publish in 18. So im actually plotting that book right now. And i have wandered around quite a bit in jacksonville ive gotten three or four visits lately all downtown to see some things so, yes st. Augustine will make an appearance. Yes, it will. Other questions . Yes, sir. [inaudible] historical fiction so interesting other than the fact that its a lot of fact in it is the incredible detail in describing places and people. Do you research that or do you make that up . No, no. I try to keep that as close to reality as i can because i want you to go there, and i want you to experience those. And most of those things i have actually been to. Now, if i need to trip it up i do. Like in the alexandria link, we were at the abbey in portugal, and unfortunately, i needed these people to go from one part of the abbey to another and there was no way so i just created my own little passageway. But i told you that in the writers note, i actually told you that i did that. Occasionally, i have to trip up. But i try to keep it as close as i can. Here at the National Gallery of art, accurately displayed. The cruise ship is very accurate venice is very accurate the croatian sites are very accurate because ive found b that readers of my books enjoy that. They want to go and see them too. Yes, maam. [inaudible] im curious how through the process, can you tell us about the outlining ahead . To what extent its a highly highly technical thing. You just take a piece of paper, and you tear it off, and you write chapter one on it, and everything that goes in chapter one goes on that piece of paper. Chapter two goes on the next piece of paper. I tried apps like index card and all these things, but i found i didnt enjoy it. It was just easier to do the piece of paper. Ive done the piece of paper for years, so thats how i outline. Just one piece of paper all the way down, and the noteses are in no order. Theyre just as the thoughts come to you. But at least its on one piece of paper. So when i get ready to write that chapter i just take that piece of paper lay it down im ready to go. Now, the research is equally as simple. When im going through the books, i write down the little snippets that i find on the yellow legal pad i tear them off and keep them by subject matter. So everything 16th amendment would be clipped together everything on hyman solomon clipped together, and i keep those together so i can find them quickly. And ive just found the lowtech method works best. Ive tried the hightech methods, and it was more trouble than it was worth. It was easier just to keep the piece of paper. Other questions . You had a question. Did you have a question . [inaudible] oh. The one that got me in real trouble. [laughter] im wondering if that third secret was ever revealed . It was revealed. John paul ii revealed it. Some say it wasnt the actual secret. The amazing thing about that book, i wrote that book in 1997. It was one of the ones rejected one of the manuscripts that were rejected. In 1999 he in 2000 he he releases the secret to the world, and here i have a manuscript i wrote about a secret thats been secret for 70 years, and he wrote it. So i rewrote the novel to incorporate the release of it in there. The third secret is about the third secret of fatima. My third secrets very different. Its the one book that i got in the most trouble with. The catholics did not care for it very much. I got damned to hell maybe, i dont know 5,000 times. I still get damned to hell about three or four times a month. [laughter] from that. But, you know, i try to ill tell you a quick story of what happened. We were doing an event like this one night, and i saw a lady sitting in front, and i could see she was really steamed. And it was right after the third secret had come out. And i said do you have any questions, and she stands up and she just chewed me out. She told me that god would never do that, the virgin mary would never do that, the pope would never do that, she just went on and on and on, and i let her finish. I said maam, are you done . She said yes. I said, well, i just want to make it clear to you that youre absolutely right, you know, i wrote this book and then, of course, god is the infinite being who controls all things. She said, yes. God knows everything right . Hes infallible right . She said, yeah. I said, i think hes smart enough to know that i made it all up, you know . [laughter] it didnt happen youre right. The pope would never do that good would never do that because god would never do that because i made the entire thing up. Its just a story, is all it is. But people get very impassioned by it. It was just a clever story i came up with when long ago i went to Catholic School. Anybody go to Catholic School . You know what im talking about then, dont you . You tell you a lot of what in Catholic School, but they dont tell you why. They dont give you a lot of why of. [laughter] so i wondered what would happen if god was a liberal, what if he wasnt a flamethrowing conservative . Hes liberal, and we got it all wrong . The third secret has ap incredibly positive message on faith, it has a very negative message on religion because there is a difference between those two. Its the crossing of those that get us into trouble and thats what the novel deals with the crossing of those. So when that lady stands up and yells at me, i realize shes crossing those. The book deals with the delineation of those. Other questions . Yes, sir. With most of your book you said you had a lady that was interested in the [inaudible] do you have a lot of people that just sometimes dont agree with what you write . Yeah. Oh, yeah. Theres a lot of anything ive been fortunate lately. The third secret was my catholic book, so they damned me to hell pretty bad. The property stabilities were nice when they damned me to hell. Theyd say i read the book, it was really good, i enjoyed it unfortunately, youre going to rot in hell for all eternity, have a blessed day. [laughter] they were very nice about it. And then the alexandria link was the jews and the arabs so i got em all. And then in the lincoln myth i took on the mormons. Now, i was very fortunate with the mormon book though because i didnt do anything negative with them because i have Great Respect for that religion and i made that very clear. I dealt with mormon history. And i didnt get hardly anything, in fact, i got a lot of emails from mormons who said they loved the book because it was a book about their role in american history. They actually play a Critical Role in our history, particularly in the civil war, and its all true. It was fascinating. They were very nice. I dont like to write stuff where some religious organizations trying to take over the world. Thats not the kind of stuff that i write. I like to deal with the reality, the real stuff of it. Yes, maam. So many of your first books dealt with history mysteries unsolved mystery in history. Uhhuh. Have you got any more i better or im in trouble. [laughter] im in trouble if i dont, because im okay for four years. I have 16s finished because, remember, you turn it in in a year in advance. So its finished. 17s okay, 18s okay, and i think 19s okay. A real mystery. Yeah. No ones done i always do that. Everything i try to do in my stories no ones touched before. I dont like to do what someones done. The one thing you dont want to do is what someones already done. Even the templer book. When i wrote the templer legacy i dealt with the templers in an entirely different way than anyone else. I like to put my own mark on it and try to keep it as close to reality as i possibly can. Thats the key to it. And i have to find those elements to make it work. I say all the time my books, first off, have to have an ooh factor. If i say it, you go ooh. And the reason why that happened was when i was writing the templer legacy, they asked me what the next book was about and i would say templers, and everybody would go ooh. So things that get you to go ooh like paris or charlemagne or lincoln or jefferson. Those kind of words that kind of get you in. The book im working on right now deals with the smithsonian, see . Thats an ooh, see . [laughter] then you have to have the so what. Who care if we find the lost library of alexandria . Who cares if the 16th amendment was not properly ratified . What does it matter . It has to have a so what today. So this goes into the titles, by the way. The lincoln myth, see . The ooh word, the so what. The jefferson key. The alexandria link. The templer theyre all key to that. Ooh word and so what. And those go into where we factor our title. So i have to find the ooh and the so what. Sometimes i get a great ooh or no so what. I have to discard it and i have a big folder, and i throw those in there, and i kind of hold them and hopefully one day ill be able to match them up to get em together. Yes. Youve written a number of books. Can you identify one where you learned the most or enjoyed the most in rig . Well in writing . I would say the emperors tomb might be the one i learned the most because i knew nothing of china. The emperors tomb, by the way is a book about oil that has nothing to do with the middle east. It has everything to do with oil. And its a very interesting with oil, i dont know if you know this, but the chinese actually drilled for oil 2500 years ago. They actually drilled it, took it out of the earth and used it 2500 years ago. It was quite remarkable. I knew none of that. So that book i probably learned the most because i wanted the reader to get an appreciation, too, of some of this stuff. And its a good story dealing with cotton malone. He gets caught up in something really big over there, and it goes way back. So that one probably is the one i learned the most from, i would have to say. These others are little ideas that have been running around in my head since law school, you know . The whole question of secession of a state which i dealt with in lincoln myth. In jefferson key i dwelt the letters of mark where we have hire pirates to steal for us. We have the Constitutional Authority to hire a pirate to go steal for us. So i remember all that from law school, so ive been exploring these constitutional things lately. But emperors tomb may be the one where i just where i started with nothing. I knew nothing of that country very little about it. This book i knew very little about north korea. And the north korean camps are in in this book too. They are quite horrible. They exist. 200,000 people are in them right now, and i wanted to draw a little attention to it. So one of the characters has a connection to that. Only one person we know of has escaped from the camps and lived to tell the tale, and i read his book. So a lot of whats in the novel i took from his actual accounts. Other questions . Topic first and then the place of the novel or the period . Sometimes they go together. Sometimes they click in together, but i do try to make sure that each novel goes to different places. I dont want to do the same places over and over again, so i do actually look for subject matters that are substantially different so i can have different locales. I dont like to mix them together. Now, its not to say i dont return to some places, but its usually four or five books later, and i dont go back to the same church. I might go back to paris a second time but a different place in paris. I try to because that way the books are fresh. You realize when you write a series, heres the trick of writing a series, every single book in a series has to be the same but different. I havent found a fresh element there yet. Thats what i have defined something that no one has ever done before. Thats the element type to look for. When i find it will be great and i will be able to put it together. Unfortunately, the da vinci code did that one. It is gone forever. So is the worst da vinci by the way. You can never use that word again. When i read all your books steve, for the genre that youre in, what speed my genre . Dan of course dan brown but he writes sporadically, only about every three years. These picking up the genre as well. Certainly john rollins books are excellent. Is our little more science. He signs and a little history that im history and a little science. Theres a different but similar stories. We are similar in that regard. Those are really about come in my particular Chris Prosinski would be another guy who writes ben our genre another one. Certainly the classics ludlum is wonderful. For sites is wonderful. Theres a lady by the name of Helen Mcinnes perreault back in 50s and 60s. We consider like the grandmother of the genre. G. I. Clinic action history. Sheeted conspiracies long before. I love her stuff. And a little different than today but interesting stuff. In 1980 that book kicked everything, kick started again, wonderful. Those of those are guys that i read. Let me finish up with a story. The quick story. People ask sal tomko quickly research trips. We go places, you dont research the and a some fun. Sounds like to get to go to these exotic places. Its not fun. It is an. They go underground where therefore district we have defined what were looking for. If we knew it was we wouldnt have to come. We have to go find it. Its a treasure. We have to go located. When i went to the cathedral for the charlotte in pursuit i had no plot, no plot whatsoever. I met four days later with a plot. I detroit that what i was there. Everything discovered and that cathedral i discovered while after. These are stressful trips. I was writing had to go to paris to get something that i could not find in the book. Just Little Details whole bunch of stuff would get to the eiffel tower and were going up to the top, 905 feet. Have you ever done it . Theres an elevator all. You get on and literally all glass and you go up and you can look around and its quite spectacular. Are going up to the top and looking at elizabeth and her eyes are getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Ive never seen the look on her face before. Was a strange look and on the way up to the top of the eiffel tower we discovered something we never knew about elizabeth. She does not like heights. [laughter] we didnt know this. Neither did she by the way. She did not notice it is a we get to the top at elizabeth is not upset. She is not panicked and theres a difference between the outset and panic. Shes shortness of breath groundbreaking outcome shes losing it right there. Me being the good husband patty and i look over at her and i had her come and i say heres the thing. You will have to suck it up because ive got to figure out how to kill some of your and i need a few minutes. [laughter] the car to a standing right next to me was the only frenchman a note to acknowledge that he speaks english and he of course spoke english and he comes over and he says you know, efp whats going on and i said, like spleenectomy said i wasnt with her. You define. Very nice. Took over. Theres a garbage and she crawled up and got an official position as she sort of laid up with a lovely photograph of her in the fetal position. You might think im very cruel. You might think that but i want to use the rest of the story pictures the rest of the story. The rest of the story starts one year earlier. We are in the ukraine and we want to see what the nazi resistance fighters hid during world war ii. You have to go down the shaft of the 100 feet and get to go into the ground another 200 feet in the place about this wide about this tall with just these lightbulbs come november election and would learn something about me. I dont like that. [laughter] and i had a panic attack. What did she say . Suck it up you big baby. Exactly what she told me. She looked at me and said youve got to suck it up them become and. And i did like it. If your government only enclosed you know what im talking about. I freaked out. Now i dont underground two hours in that coffin. Shes up in the sunshine for 45 minutes, okay. So there. And yes, i did pay her back that at the top of the eiffel tower for insensitivity to me figure before. Yes, i did