a portrait of a woman by robert massey. bill o'reilly and martin dugard our seventh with their book, killingly again. sally smith is eight with her in-depth look at the queen of england in elizabeth the queen. .. it is about 45 minutes. >> it is great to be here at this wonderful book store. i gravitate every time i have a chance to speak here. just a week ago my book had an official publication date or as i prefer to call it the launch. here is hoping you like what you hear. it is worthy of a who launched. what i ought to do to be fair is work here and hopefully by reading about it, a very brief excerpt so you get a flavor for what i am getting at and hopefully to by yourself. and then i will turn to general comments and take questions that i was eager to learn from readers. . the assassin rode up at daybreak. the night before june 21st, 1839, with a 183 cherokees were at the council grounds in oklahoma. a group of people scribbled three names on the list. none of the accused were present and all three were found guilty in a mock trial. their crime, to train the cherokee nation without approval and the penalty was death. early the next morning three assassination parties headed tour their separate destiny and -- works with his friend and missionary and little rock creek near the arkansas border where they would soon be crossing. southern of the justice mission's third no retribution and in their minds the history of their people not only sanctioned the demanded their action. all members of the party were resisted and targeted three men who stole the jerry sacred land to cooperate with president and jackson. all the years of outrage resulted in a bitter quarrel erupted in a violent day of reason and that was operatic in sweet and tone. on june 22nd. late in 39, a violent coda to a hunting and valuable story of heartbreak and loss, conflict and controversy known as the trail of tears. the most tragic interracial event in american history. the trail of tears had sometimes been called an american holocaust or genocide. it was neither. no one want to norplant cherokees to die. it dramatize sacred lands in the southeast and failure of democracy and justice for its entire people. ironically the most successful civilized tribes. few stories from the american past reveals a devastating turns the consequences of racial oppression. the cherokees were hardly the only ones who experienced forced removal. dozens of other tribes are similarly suffering. because of the cherokee's unique accomplishments as a well-educated people. they had a written language, the first indian language newspaper. we came to view their a wish as emblematic of all indian people who faced -- few tribes had so fully accepted the promise of democracy, the 1820 constitution left to the u.s. constitution. the principal tragedy of the trail of tears lies in the heart wrenching tragedy of the united states. most accounts of this terrible story focus on the easily identifiable villain -- the indians fighting andrew jackson and his co-conspirators. the charities themselves are often depicted as hopelessly naive in their belief that fix to their successful rise they would be spare the relentless determination of settlers to take over indian land in the southeast. center stage is the main protagonist for his laudable tenacious struggle to face the homeland and keep the tribe together. such a narrative is accurate. a former perspective texas into the minds and hearts of those charities. they took on andrew jackson over what they saw as the cherokee people. what they're fighting about is nothing less than what is meant to be a good charity. removal practice plunged the charity into a profound issue of patriotism. the 1820s un they faced a difficult question for the cherokee people. with irresponsible for charity to be a citizen of the nation and remain connected to tribal positions. and given the obvious hunger to charities who place their hopes on assimilation in their homeland or independence of the cherokee nation. what could a patriotic cherokee do to save his people if the only choices were clinging to a homeland that were overrunning or recreating the nation in a distant land? if you could not save your homeland and your people which one matters most? which one would you risk? what made you the more faithful cherokee? fighting to save your home or to save your people. those are questions i posed in the introduction. the book goes back in time a bit to washington and jefferson's administration and begins on a hopeful measure. washington and jefferson indian policy aimed at peace in establishing a similar program making indians to the republic. hunting and fur trading the principal live the of most tribes in the southeast, would be replaced by the more civilizing occupation of raising crops and livestock. a few indian hunting grounds would free of the enormous tract of indian land that were clearly coveted. washington and jefferson continue that in the life is uncivilized not because of superiority but because they had not imagine a future for themselves and their children. ignorance, not raise made the uncivilized. education and proper training they could become respectable citizens and fully assimilated took place legal american society. to carry out the indian policy better relations will set out to protect indian boundaries instead where indians exchange -- just as significantly missionaries in the 79s began arriving in indian country as well. all those religious values and domestic tools remaining native americans. presbyterian in indian country setting up additions where indian boys were talking with artisans and indian girls learned to show to introduce christianity. the telltale marks of a civilized people. indian policy viewed with cobol indians inclined in their savage ways their game was becoming extinct and their people demoralized and depopulated. their only hope was the assistance for their land. becoming respectable farmers and u.s. citizens. is more positive approach to indian population hoped the charities that it was best to feel like they're last hope. and the other tribes -- becoming civilized was the only alternative to destruction. against this ideological civilization backdrop that two of the most promising young men in the cherokee nation grew to maturity as an acculturated cherokee and they are the protagonists in my book. cousins john and the lions could not better symbolizes what the program is all about. his father a lifeline, what destroyed much of the region, and along with major ridge, sealed the log cabin and the federal agents to urge cherokees too. they differed radically from the sort of activities their families experienced years before. the communal village was replaced by isolated -- determined to take advantage of the civilization program, in 181186-year-old elias embracing the spring based initiative in georgia. the school of john and nancy rich with other indian children. a cherokee was assisted in the beginning by remarkable institute. this -- his cousin on of major ridge, who speaks no english learned from spring place to the framer mission in chattanooga springing quickly to the reputation as the best school. a great school delegate like to charity, john was a thoughtful young man. in 1817 elias and john were invited to continue their spending at a new school in connecticut set up by the american board of commissioners of multi-cultural status and further experiment--the leading men of cornwall had not have hand selected better prospects. they came from homes already exposed across the missionary effort in indian country but both boys were brilliant in their education and civilized black culture would allow. and cornwall they may have intended complete assimilation of black culture but when they got to was quite an expected and disastrous. the young men fell in love with two prominent -- married much to the shock and anger of the entire cornwall community. it was an anchor that culminated and burned in effigy on town square. the outrage in cornwall over the boy's interracial marriage served to disillusion any dreams of assimilation. intensely personal and humiliating encounter with cornwall met a mockery of the ideas that they could coming. if the very heart of what the school stood for, education and christianity with thoughts or equality between the two races rang hollow. a few years before his controversial mayor john ridge privately noted, in 1822. they're ignorant of the english language to see them exert all their power and have children educate black white. the problems in cornwall, not in rich made the energies on the town square. newlyweds john sarah returned home to indian country in 1825 they nonetheless tried to better the cherokee people. john bridge became a successful lawyer and they took off on a lecture on the east coast to make the case for indian advancement and raise funds for a national candidate. they closely equated with the new cover of cherokee nation. the inventor and expert linguist from iraq. he began a strong apprenticeships, and evangelical desire to approve the cherokee drawing on a newly created sequoia. a new cherokee newspaper printed in english and cherokee and publish laws of the cherokee nation and spread news about education and the literary zone. those of the cherokee team. he set up a shop in a new, stalin -- cosmopolitan capital. cherokee phoenix was the first newspaper ever published by a core indian in an indian language. the first issue of february of 1828 is an excerpt in english and cherokee constitution that lowers prayer and editorial. recognizing including cherokee a little more than savages, the capacity for progress and justification for a hopeful future. there was abundant evidence that indians with a proper advantages are incapable of that and more than any other people. even as he declared in the pages of the phoenix became suspect. what was more prophetic when a cherokee discovered gold and cherokee land in the summer of 1828, georgia invaded indian country in droves and cherokees complained about the intrusion on their homeland but it became quickly obvious that they were aided and abetted by a president who was elected the year before. they properly belong to their white neighbors. these were removed out west. and it is not just externally from the federal government but also from within. a full blown flute had emerged, and cherokee question. lack of support for the federal government and continuing encroachment but how do you deal with the cherokee nation itself. on one side of this huge divide about as charity as i, and in fact had to have perfectly focused speeches to be translated by cherokee interpreter. and get he was most supported by the traditional charity because he told a news something that mattered that they wanted to hear which was the cherokee in the matter what where in the homeland at all costs. anyone who endorse or participates in negotiating removal was a traitor and the enemy to his people. they supported resistance for removal. a small but vocal portion came to believe with little representing the only alternative to the individual degradation in the hands of an overwhelming white population who it was their sovereign pleasure in a period -- john and major ridge with several other enculturated cherokee comprised the leadership of what became an as the treaty party because of their willingness to negotiate the treaty to emigrate new lands out west where they believe the cherokees had the best chance to survive. by summer of 1830 to an escalating war of words grounded the first conviction of both parties swirl the cherokee nation. in this critical debate it turned on the question of what a patriot should do for his people. as you have begun to figure out, why are we different? portraying himself as a steadfast protector of the homeland, members of the treaty party where a small minority opposed to the will of the people attempting to allow the homeland without the authority to do so. they fought back against a vast majority opposed to it. the only reason the cherokee people sided with ross was because their chief did not speak honestly with them if they resisted removal. it was a forbidding discussion and debate that made people ignorant of their true condition. the cherokee people would prefer to remove the true state of the condition made known. he and his friend insisted they were the cherokee people. he did not hesitate to use his position to openly debate the issue to use the paper as the official organ of the cherokee nation. they should present only the position of constitutional authority to the cherokee people namely itself. the white political leaders to not look upon this as an expression of weakness in the struggle to resist removal and in the summer of 1832 stopped publishing. outraged by the censorship he resigned. to stay on he said in a final lipitor would place in the amicable position that would be peculiar and delicate. hy believe it the duty of every citizen to reflect upon the dangers which we are surrounded and view the darkness which lies before our people and the process and evil with which we are threatened to take over all these matters. only a free discussion among ourselves will lead to a clear sense of the will of the people. the hostility in the newspaper -- elisha hex was at no time built by presidential and announcing his resignation represented a loss that was a drop in the bucket. he had become the management of the nation and was no more a patriot. there's nothing in my literary resignation which showed a lot of patriotic views but with the most patriotic ties. one word about patriotism consists that love of the country and love of the people. these are intimately connected but not altogether inseparable. his position could not be plainer. the charity people were facing a devastating loss. better to relocate where they can survive and resist the inevitable and lose their land and their souls. land or a large portion are about to see the ticket. hy cannot say peace when there is no peace. already talked to and threatened to shatter. because as john ridge put it if a man needs a cloud charged with rain, founder and former and urging people to take care, is that a man to take his or respected? he southern cherokee's placed a grim decision ahead with three choices. they fight for their lands but give overwhelming odds to and oppressive white population or avoid the first two but with the majority cherokees. and face a harsh reliability. that reality is pointing to one question that was destined for destruction. we consider the exile immeasurably more preferred and sufficient to oppressive laws and inevitable degradation of the cherokee people. his challenge randy present speculating on the outcome of removal. art christian the law's conviction was laced with highly moral values that were planted as a young man when he like john ridge were under the influence, he had been consumed with the idea that the charity was expanding. it was not just material progress but on the midwest. was especially irked that he suggested the cherokee lead to prosperity and happiness and somehow treaty advocates -- those charities would not believe suffering from everything from alcoholism to poverty to spiritualism and moral despair. they honestly face the truth of the moral condition of the charities they would discover a people desperately in need of a new start. look at the map and the entire population and say can you see any indication of progressing improvement? he was remaining on the homeland denying the forcible removal and the face of a powerful imperative. the cherokee people surrounded by the debates of black culture facing degradation and immorality. you will find an argument in every shop in the country, it criminal effect in the blood the tragedies and many predictions have execution for murder and whether homeless -- a genuine figure seeks to save people's souls. not merely his land. resettling out west where the cherokee people constitute themselves in peace is a virtue of a prosperous nation. as a side note in removing the removal of ridge, in the missionary friend. it closes white bread and john ross in 1835, and puts together. was a mistake and assigning it was either missionaries also criticize him for his position on the treaty once they arrived in oklahoma in 1839 pleading with him to apologize for his error in advocating removal. if a relentlessly pursued the patriot call for removal of west when they believed moral renewal could be accomplished, ross at the mass of the cherokee people exclusively focused on protecting the homeland as the mark of the true patriot. he was not attacking the tree party but ross tirelessly from the side of the people to remain in their homes. to publicize the unfair plight of the cherokee and in this end to negotiate better financial settlements for the removal that actually happened. keeping his people united and to gather and under his own leadership became ross's goal. taking on the tree tea party ross points to the fact that the cherokees who supported it and resisting removal spoke for the traditional among his supporters when he said removal would tear the cherokee people from their ancient and intimate connection to the ancestral mountains and streams. a loyal charity would never trade away the homeland without tribal approval but this was precisely what the signers of the treaty did. just as in culture rated as john rich ross respected traditional charities and refuse to pressure them to change their beliefs and ways of life. removal was salvation but ross view it as destroying a traditional turkey idea. it is true most charities did not rally behind butanoff and the rest of the nation but they were considered traditionalists who embraced efforts of the system agriculture and remained suspicious of christianity not to mention a white man civilization. the tree tea party cherokee nation in contrast envisioned industrious poverty living in nuclear families. formally educated, dedicated to the principle of the christian faith and republican government. only a small portion of such a world had developed in cherokee country by the 1830s giving rise to the notion that men like ridge were tragic figures who surrounded their lives on behalf of an imaginary nation. these clashing notions of patriotism formed the war of words in the removal crisis represented fundamentally colliding visions over the future of the cherokee people. for ross and his supporters standing against an oppressive federal government allied with all the treaties by settlers in the south was necessarily tied to the homeland and preserving traditional ways of the people. heady experience such a perspective in the charity society was a sound and prosperous state before the crisis of removal. what distinguished the division of the tree party was not simply taking people over the land but on what exactly needed saving. where the treaty party sought a moral decline ross and his friend sought comfort and security in maintaining sacred ties to charity tradition in the mountains and streams of their homeland fat removal for john ross was someone who protected the homeland because without such a touchstone of trouble identity the various cherokee people would be destroyed. helen for faithfully ross did his inheritance tendencies meaningful and very meaningful connection to the land, they paid less attention to what would happen to the cherokee people if they resisted removing land remained in the east over run by white settlers and forced to live as subjects and the laws of georgia and north carolina and tennessee. they would lose -- assimilation into a white dominated society. to butanoff such a fate was too revolting to think of. the treaty party were calling important attention to raise and the need for completely independent cherokee nation. remaining in their homeland where cherokees would be inundated by a demonstrably corrupt world would as he put it all we limit the change of their servitude and degradation. division for his future lead inevitably toward becoming extinct or merged in another race. may god preserve us in suer it was the tenacity of the treaty party that shaped the destiny of the cherokee nation. butanoff had no way of knowing this would lead to the trail of tears that would cost 4,000 years and the enormous suffering. what they did know was georgia settlers were debating their country taking people from their homeland stealing property and only attacking anyone who resisted. removal offered an alternative. john ridge and major ridge paid the ultimate price to remove and that was a fervently held vision that in the end the moral and physical condition of their people mattered more than preserving their country. ross lost the countrttle over removal but the commitment to making his people together as a unified and sovereign nation remains a powerful legacy of this deciding moment. for the nation at large the trail of tears offered a devastating commentary not only on white greed and power but also on the racial bias world of jackson america. only white americans in the south could lay claim to citizenship and racial entitlement. property owning well-educated lifland women of good character no longer constituted sufficient proof of worthiness for participating in the public route to. what had to be righor t in dealing with african-americans and native americans andrew jackson and southern supporters practiced a fos of racial inclusion that ended on the belief that of superiority of -- most looked the other way or agreed to their southern brethren. idge ohn rediscovered this behind civilization during their wrenching experience in cojohn rwall. at the trail of tears tragedy demonstrate rates remain thenowy social divide making much of america a white man's country. [applause] i will hear commentary whenever you like. >> in the review of the paperlo- idge acsouton after the bat adopt a one-year-old boy of the brazilian indian boy who found his dead mother and then it states -- it states that they took him to the states and confined him and he warned his loss. how did he feel about this hiphild? in t very good anecdotes to ma the point. [inaudible] it is fair to say he protected him and treated him kindly. vere you look at the way he was treated in the house it was exactly like a pet. a love and honored pet but a pet nonetheless. the paternalism that they had to undergo. a mike fasano -- microcosm in a way he treated the little boy and he kept talking about out west, the white culture, people in white culture won't be around practicing their own travel ways leaving aside the fact the we want your land because there wasn't a lot of money and we're sitting on them. we have sellers who make big bucks, get out. there are a lot of mixed messages. that is very interesting story about jackson with the adoption of this little boy. the adoption did not mean for a minute that indian people were equals of whites, said reports, in my view. >> butanoff and john ross both married white women. what happened to them? >> butanoff's wife died a year before he went on the trail of tears. he married another missionary woman and she went on and pushed for revenge on her husband's death. the new england woman harry and had died the year before. nancy rich went off -- went out to oklahoma, worked in a family general store, kept a pretty low profile, moved to arkansas, there were a lot of retribution activities and murders on both sides because -- not surprised to learn that john ross did not make a big effort to have these people arrested. the whole phrase of assassin this is executions is interesting. i had historians put the second word -- those were not assassins. those executions. they deserve to be executed. that was a blood revenge they put behind them. i made a decision that was the assassination, not an execution. the language used to talk about this gets caught up in a lot of arguments about is it true they deserved to die? by the letter of the law that they set up, and -- >> there seems to be a sense that with the rise of casinos owned by native americans, justice is being served, getting back what was taken from them. how much truth is there in that? do the tribes controlled the casino operations? are they being controlled? >> they mostly control it. it is a source of huge income so much so that it affects decisions about who belongs -- courtroom members of the nation. if you can't prove it you don't have a right to a payoff as part of the proceeds in the casinos. it makes interesting political problem how do you decide as a member of the faded cherokee tribe or creek nation or whenever? it is a sign of a sense with which native people are set aside -- in my personal opinion. i'm not a scholar of casino ownership. it may be financial revenge on the part of native people. don't know if it is intentional but it is kind of -- and opportunity. it doesn't seem -- it is so far from the close to nature and people who work the land and credited for working casinos and things like that, 20th century pay off for the degradation this effort. >> the 1% getting the casinos very often and 99% are looking some place to occupy. >> cherokees should have a protest called occupy america because they lived here for some. they have long since been viewed as forgotten people. not really part of the conversation if you think about it. it came up in the news that charities did recently. new tribal chiefs got the issue of african -- african slaves. the trail of tears were african slaves in every combination. there was a republican leadership among the cherokee people. we want to narrow our membership. these are not part of the cherokee nation. it caused a big your. the guy who took that position whose last name was chad smith, lost in the most recent election. we will see if the new chief takes a broader view because historically speaking, it is really perverse to eliminate the business of the freed men has not members of the cherokee nation. that is what is going on. the turkeys are not immune to the struggle over what is raise? what does it mean today? it is constantly fought over. >> i don't know for certain but i believe going one eighth -- 7/8 white house like don ross to be considered an indian. so it is -- benefits the 7 eighth by their ancestors. >> try to find a balance between being as inclusive as they can between tribal membership and keep the wallabies off the list and great great grandmother who was definitely a cherokee. it has become difficult to prove certification and all the rest. kind of a cottage industry to figure that out because it is a financial payoff for the casino. not just walk around and say the card says i am a cherokee. i get so much every year from the casino and they can be considerable. >> there are separate nations, american nation. when state and federal government communicate with tribal government there has to be government and two governments communicate together. citizens of the tribal lands, are they all americans or are they citizens of the tribal nation? do they have american rights? how does their citizenship work? >> they're members of their own nation and the federal government -- the bureau of indian affairs who they deal with is the federal government. the people who are sovereign nation, this is one of the things going on in the trail of tears. that ross was pleading for but never going to happen once stay here as an independent sovereign nation which we are and somehow get along because we honor tribal laws and independence. they were going to take over their land. how disrespectful can you be? that is why the cherokees and other indian nations deal with the federal government. [inaudible] >> u.s. citizens and -- >> they try to get through travel -- they keep the boundaries of the united states. >> it is a u.s. export. [talking over each other] >> in terms of internet travel you think about u.s. exports. >> a cherokee passport? >> that travel internationally. you could go to the tse a or the cherokee nation or a u.s. exports. they would have one. [talking over each other] >> a sovereign nation or within boundaries. >> that is legal or the indian nation is making independent deals with the government germany. [talking over each other] >> internal understanding and way of operation in the united states to honor the -- to get to do this, still a sovereign nation. we are a sovereign nation. kind of a standoff that we made. >> i wonder if you have a philosophical punch or guidelines about the word patriot and so many groups of people. it means so many different things. certainly in the case of people who are here first, seem to have a very important meeting. i am wondering how we can learn to understand how to use that. >> it will broaden the meeting not to the point of confusion but what patriotism meant. not just something we decided is white anglo-saxon protestant on july 4th. patriotism means a love of your people and the land and the differences between those two things. is appropriate to use it here so people will understand they have a right to fend of themselves as good or bad patriots. quite apart from what we think of because i am sure most white americans at this time thought there would be crazy to think of patriotic americans unless they became assimilated citizens of the u.s. republic which we were not intend on doing. the word doesn't have america written on it. it is patriotism and love of country and love of your own people and culture. is perfectly appropriate and i hope people will see that as an instructive part of the book and useful way of making a distinction they haven't thought of before because usually a story is played out in terms of that rejection was a bad guy and his white southern supporters and these 4 helpless indians forcing a bayonet out west. there was a lot of turmoil going on and the cherokees were active participants. in trying to deal with it and fight tooth and nail to figure out the best way to handle it. >> in the future they play 50 years from now with the cherokee people. >> they are very resilient. i am one eighth cherokee myself, and there are -- one of the most adaptable nations effort. they have gone a through a lot and they see themselves as united people divided only by a land. i fully expect 70,000 in the cherokee nation in northeast oklahoma with 300,000 worldwide that lay claim to it with documentation to prove it. they are going -- there are survivors if nothing else. i have no doubt that they will remain an active part of the political scene. whether or not we come around to treating them is a different matter. i thank you for coming. i appreciate it. and get a chance to answer questions and talk about something i care about. [applause] >> for more information visit the author's website danielblakesmith.com. >> 14 years is! [applause] >> thank you thank you thank you! >> next weekend booktv and american history tv exports history of literary culture of beaumont where the texas oil industry got its start. saturday at noon eastern on booktv on c-span2. john roberts on beaumont's literary culture and the challenges of running an independent bookstore. beaumont author j. lee thompson on teddy roosevelt's yearlong presidential expedition to africa and europe. on american history tv on c-span3 january 11th, 1901, the lucas gusher change the economy of texas and helped usher in the petroleum age. with the oil came the roughnecks and vice. through the dixie hotel. and infamous brothel on buckets tree. decades of gambling and other crimes thrived until 1960 james commission. obama, tx next weekend on c-span2 and 3. >> c-span donated the book's cover on book notes to george mason university located just outside washington d.c.. the university is currently cataloguing the collection at the fed will climb very. book notes. an hour long interview program hosted by brian lamb from 1889 to 2004. john zealous, university librarian shows us the collection entitled beyond the book. >> in the mind of brian this book is the genesis. by reading this book he decided he wanted to interview the author and that gave him the idea that -- of book notes. it would be worthwhile for him and to read a lot of books and to talk to the offer is. >> 801 total episodes of book notes, all the original and this was the first. >> exactly. dr. reasons the --bzrzinsky was the chair of the security council for the carter administration. >> host: when you pick the books that go in these displaces? >> guest: several of my colleagues in the special collections in the archive area made the selections of works to be highlighted and they made the annotations accompanying each of the displayed items and they chose to select a question by brian lamb and produced the answer, the response provided by the author to that question. >> host: you can see a lot of notes taken while reading the book. when you put these books in the cases did you look for varying points of view? >> exactly. as i mentioned, one of the criteria was to reflect the broad perspective involved in book notes and that is exactly the point. that our various subjects covered in the 801 books. and certainly many points of view from the political perspective and social perspective. all kinds of perspective. >> is this archive available for scholars or the public? >> guest: it is beginning to become available. library staff legal the process of cataloguing the collection. we are about 40% through it at this point. for the titles that we're -- they are available. any student faculty membership at the university and this information is accessible through the world wide web. >> host: in the united states and abroad. >> guest: most definitely. >> host: we have seen some of the books on display but you have also -- we start with this one. boundaries was the book. what we looking at here? >> guest: this is a page from the riding had. brian lamb's notes, we have an envelope from a bill where he also has not made additional notes, including personal information in naples, florida. and henry, it was the first person that employed brian in a professional capacity. he chose brian lamb maintained relationships throughout his life with his mentor is. >> host: let's look at the full collection if we could. we have posters -- >> guest: the focus of the posters is to connect this part of the exhibit to the other part of the exhibit which is the third building, in this building complex. >> host: can the public come through here? >> guest: yes. most definitely. in the other part of the exhibit which is outside our special collections and archives area. here we have three display cases containing materials from the book collection in this particular case, it is not just the books but we also have what we consider an artifact will or archive part of the collection which is relating to the book of cornell west and it is john cold frame's giant steps music -- part of the music. >> host: the books have no -- for all the books. >> guest: it varies. understand from brian, or originally he was not making adaptations within the books themselves. he was making notes separately. later on as the program progressed he started making notes in the books themselves. >> host: in the long term will that be open as it is now? to the air and the light? >> guest: all physical materials overtime deteriorated. we in libraries in special collections and archives, we have special environmental conditions to preserve paper and anything that is written on paper. and proper -- this writing is left for centrists. these particular books can only be used in the reading room of special collection archive which we will be going at later. however, we have other copies available in the general election of the libraries available for circulation. >> host: more notes from one of the books. why did this one get blown up? what was special about this one? >> guest: we understand paul is one of the favorite authors of brian. as you can see from this, be blown up notes, he became interested in this particular book and that is why we chose it. because of the significance to the arthur. >> host: you have a letter to brian. >> guest: exactly. recommending martin's book be considered for book notes. i should point out-the late prof. lips and was a professor at george mason university. in fact in this case is another book by mason prof. which is saying she's which by the way is the only fiction to be highlighted in the book notes program. >> host: here are the rest of the 801 books. >> guest: these books are shelved in the order that they were in brian lamb's office act c-span and also they are in the order of the televised programs. >> host: except for the ones that taken out here -- >> guest: to indicate where is the exhibit is, belongs in this arrangement. >> host: these are the books in order. correct? >> guest: yes. >> host: were you a book notes -- >> guest: i was a regular book notes viewer and when brian lamb announced on the air the program was coming to an end i made a mental note that the next day i needed to look into the matter of whether or not we could obtain the collection in the associated archive film cases and organization. soon after, made contact with mr. brian lamb. we presented three separate proposals in 2005 until 2010. and then we convinced brian that george mason university would be a good home for the collection. but more importantly he was impressed with what we were planning to do. this collection is going to be integrated wit