Transcripts For CSPAN Washington Journal 20151126 : comparem

these are central time zones, 202-748-8000. mountain pacific, 202-748-8001. we are also getting your tweets at c-spanwsg. facebook.com/c-span. thanks for being with us. the front page of the washington post shows home and security secretary jeh johnson not very far from where we are at union station. beis advising people to alert but also telling americans to enjoy the holiday weekend. a state department travel warning that was issued two days ago that reads, as follows. the state department alerts u.s. citizens to possible risks of travel due to increased terrorist attacks. current information suggesting daesh, ala.k.a. qaeda, boko haram, and other carry outnted terrorist attacks using conventional and nonconventional weapons and targeting both official and private interests. the state department is pointing out there have been multiple attacks in france, nigeria, denmark, turkey, and molly. u.s. citizens should exercise caution when using transportation, be aware of immediate surroundings and avoid large crowds or crowded places. exercise caution during the holiday season and that festivals or events. the warning was issued two days ago and remains in effect until february of 2016. the economist has this cover story, how to fight back. , more from the president from the roosevelt room. president obama: in the event of a specific credible threat, the public will be informed. foro think it's useful people as they are going about their business to be vigilant. if you see something, say something. that is voice helpful. otherwise american should go about their usual thanksgiving activities. it has been a time of family and friends and celebrating our while the threat of terrorism is a troubling reality of our age, we are equipped to prevent attacks and are resilient in the face of those that would try to do is time -- us harm. that is something we can be thankful for. happy thanksgiving. thanks very much for spending part of this holiday weekend with us, we will be here through the weekend on the washington journal. the new york post has this. the warning of potential copycat crimes because of the terror attacks has police agencies across the country advised to keep an eye for copycats inspired by the jihadi assault in paris. is atrial drill simulating a terror attack in city, the in new york bulletin is being sent to 18,000 local law enforcement agencies to be on the lookout to four suspicious people -- four suspicious people across the nation. in the new york times, for on the statement yesterday. the headline, frightened after muslims coping with potential backlash because of what was seen in new york city. let's go to rusty in elizabethtown, kentucky. welcome. happy thanksgiving, i wanted to thank c-span for the way you do your format. added, and a couple questions. the comment is i feel pretty safe in my home country but the questions that i have are if we have been bombing isis for the last 18 months, how is it that france had all of these new targets to bomb last week? the second question is, schlanger will we watch every time isis has a victory -- how much longer will we have to watch every time isis has a victory in iraq with two hour-long, three-hour victory convoys that we don't do anything about? i don't understand if we are serious about bombing over there why we are not actually bombing and taking care of the situation. things for taking my questions. we will have a conversation at the bottom of the hour with a major general from afghanistan to talk about the operations in that country and u.s. troops that remain in afghanistan. this tweet from david roth, you can send us a tweet at http://twitter.com/cspanwj. he says we have nothing to fear but fear itself, fdr are great socialist leader was true in 1933 and more today. to enter the about roosevelt room yesterday, this was the photograph with the headline "obama seeks to ".assure skeptical public there was subtext to his statement as well. feels anxiety in the wake of the attacks and does have a plan for defeating the terrorists of the islamic state and if given enough time, mr. obama understood that the audience was skeptical although he once enjoyed the benefit of the doubt he does not anymore. his response has been criticized by republicans and democrats. new polls showing most of the public has lost confidence in the president's handling of the terror threat. this morning from a former moscow bureau chief for the new york times and a white house reporter, inside today's times, also available at nytimes.com. brandel from butler, oklahoma. are you worried? caller: not at all. there was a cuban missile crisis, the soviet union had thousands of intercontinental ballistic missiles aimed at us. i am not worried about terrorists. when you worry about them, you give them effectiveness. the thinghink about that happened in sandy hook, i think two years ago somebody killed 20 children. terrorists are not here, if they come to oklahoma they would not be living very long. host: thanks for the call. bill king who has this point saying i can tell you i would not attend the macy's thanks giving parade today. security will be like boarding a flight at the airport. this is from abc news.com, an estimated 3 million people expected to attend the parade. it will air live on nbc. mark is joining us from melbourne, florida. on the issue of homeland security, we ask are you worried? had he respond? caller: good morning, happy thanksgiving. well, i think you have to be worried. i beenthink and following since 9/11 that this is a law enforcement issue, not a military issue. we are never going to change the way the radical muslims think about america or the west. what we have to do is either keep them out of this country or if they slip in, we have to hunt them down and either kill them or arrest them and prosecute them. that's my comment. this is from carol who says i feel safe here in boca raton but i plan to stay home instead of flying to atlanta, it is such a large airport hub. the area code, for eastern and central time zones, 202-748-8000 . and 202-748-8001 four mountain and pacific. the head of amtrak joined us to talk about how the rail carrier is preparing for the weekend. here's a portion of that. guest: it's safe to use rail travel. weekend, our chief of police paul hansen were on the phone for a substantial part of the time trying to understand what happened and what this was about. we regularly talk about the necessity for security. we have a multilayered approach at amtrak so monday morning and after that weekend, if people were riding the train they saw dogse stations a surge of and guards and things people see visibly. we have a very strong team of canines and a special operations unit and great partnerships with law enforcement up and down and across the country. behind that, what you don't see is the fact that we are plugged ,nto the fbi so we understand we have analysts there, top-secret clearances, we try to understand if there is a credible threat. we look and have patrols along the right-of-way, we are looking all the time for what is necessary to keep our passengers secure and safe. host: he was with us this week on c-span's washington journal to talk about security along amtrak's rail routes between new york and boston and elsewhere. we are asking you whether or not you are worried about homeland security in light of what happened in paris. and the heightened travel alert put in place by the state department. the hill newspaper has jeh johnson again advising all americans to remain vigilant but also go ahead with their daily lives and from the washington post, a poll showed most americans are fearful of a major terror attack. that story is available at washington post.com. alan is joining us from asheville, north carolina. good morning and happy thanksgiving and thanks for having me. if with ourd political correctness situation. for instance, if we were the boy with the clock that went to school, it was in a briefcase and it looked dangerous and he happened to be a muslim. incorrect tocally say what are you doing with this briefcase, it is all wired up. he says it's :00 and it looked -- he says it is a clock and now he is suing the school and the school board for his detention. and i was traveling in europe and there was a fellow across from me on a train and he got off the train and he left his at the-- backpack station. he went out on a cell phone and i was looking at his backpack and wondering what i should do. if -- offend this person it didn't seem right to me, it seemed unsafe. if we do take action like our president suggested and we do see a situation that looks report it, allwe of a sudden, oh no you are a racist or what are you picking on me for just because i look like a muslim or whatever the situation is. you are going to offend somebody when they do something suspicious. you are caught between doing something wrong here or taking care of the problem or do i mention it or ignore it and walk away? the political correctness put us in a situation that is not helping. it is a serious problem. host: in your case, what did you do with the backpack? did you alert somebody? did he come back? there were five of us my wife, myd daughter, and my son and sister-in-law were in the other four seats and i was by myself. i was looking at my family and i'm like, what should we do? we were making eye contact. whenare laughing at me now you talk about this story, i was close to throwing the backpack off the train. me, i felt that uncomfortable with it. the man was making eye contact with me while he was on the cell phone. it was right out of the bourne movies. i'm living the situation. i pay attention to what's around me but on the other hand, i don't want to be called racist so if i happen to say something incorrect, i think we are in a situation here that is uncomfortable that our president has put us in. not just our president, the whole progressive, we are afraid to say anything about anybody. sometimes we could be wrong. host: thank you very much for the call. it does go back to the other question when the administration or homeland security says if you see something say something, what does that mean? what should you say? who should you say it too? when should you say it? thanks very much for the call. another viewer calling herself jersey girl in pennsylvania on whether or not she is worried, it depends on the type of terrorist. if you meet a white male limited shooting people in a school or theater, yes, otherwise not so much. david joins us from jackson, mississippi. caller: welcome to the program. thank you for taking my call. but i am more worried about the invasion of iraq. i'm talking about john mccain, dick cheney, paul wolfowitz, various neoconservatives. we would be better off if we just pulled out of the middle east completely. host: thank you for the call. bobby joins us next from mobile, alabama. caller: good morning, i am not the least bit worried. i am looking forward to it. i have a concealed pistol weapons permit so i have a number of very quality made weapons. i think conversely that the terrorists are the ones that should be worried. we americans have the right by the grace of god to defend ourselves. people thate for sit around expecting something to happen and they will react. we don't do that as americans. general patton said we pro-act. we take the fight to them. that's what we are not seeing with this administration. he should be there bringing the fight to them. that's what i intend to do. host: thanks for the call. this is from another viewer, a lot of you weighing in on twitter. we would love to hear from you. send a tweet to c-span/wsj. he writes the terror attacks remind me of ebola panic. his comments last week saying there is no credible threat of a paris type attack in the u.s. from the fbi director. the usb except holiday travel security. mary joining us from lake bronson, minnesota. good morning. caller: good morning. think 11 or 12 when the president went to congress obamacare.m into there was the demonstration right there at the capitol. i was walking toward the botanical garden and i saw a couple and a female, a beautiful spring day. no one was wearing sweaters. that's how nice it was. there was this female with the male of middle eastern and walkingalking in the opposite direction. she was covered with a duster. she said toby her, can you see it? witness,n't the only wasn't the only person that heard that. host: so what happened? i was among tens of thousands of people. i did look for a cop and when i finally found one, i am telling them about it that of course she mob, soway into the that's all. thank god nothing happened. it was really eye-opening. a bigmart not to be in group of people. host: how can you avoid that in today's day and time in a major metropolitan areas like washington, d.c., new york, l.a.? yeah, it is smart to be smart. host: thank you for the call. on homelanding security asking you the question on this thanksgiving morning. are you worried? the president traveling a few blocks from the white house to see homeless veterans, this is the headline front page of the washington times for a happy and safe giving. his wife and two daughters. thomas from mystic beach, new york. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: fine, how are you? caller: all right. you know about this feeling secure with homeland security and stuff like that. i think americans would feel a lot better if these white supremacists, christian evangelical hate groups who ,upported bundy in nevada dylann roof, and though red state free gun areas would be more put to check. we have the arabs in check. they will not come here. the danger is our own people. that's all i have to say. host: the president on his facebook page a few hours ago issuing this statement. like many americans i was deeply disturbed by the shooting of quan mcdonell. i asked everybody to keep those who have suffered tragic loss in our thoughts and prayers and be thank all for the majority of men and women in uniform who conduct our communities with honor. i'm personally grateful to the people of my hometown for keeping protests peaceful. one of the busiest stretches of shops in chicago is expected to see demonstrations in light of the shooting and the video that was released. the shooting took place in october of 2014. shirley is joining us from new orleans. shirley is in georgia today. i've been in new orleans and georgia. but this is my comment. afraid ofe become so our own shadow? everything. i mean the part that kills me, going on and on with the tales about the man not knowing what to do, making eye contact. worried about was the one in the jacket not knowing what to do. this is ridiculous. it makes no sense, absolutely no sense. these people should get on the television, poor these lies right out of their you know what. you let them go on and on. you have a right to your opinion but, on with the facts. they know it's a lie. men, some women, with these guns, those are the terrorists. host: thanks for the call. george has this point, saying that none of you are worried about attacks tomorrow at 4:00 a.m. when you bust and walmart for the sales. opening at 5:00 or six a clock this afternoon. from the wall street journal, travelers up against the security in the airports and railway stations around the country as -- joining us from new york in the bronx, good morning ralph. caller: good morning. what me to tell you a story? host: yes. go ahead. caller: i was coming back from my lunch break going to the office walking through times thate when i passed a car was running and black smoke was coming out of it. when i got back to the office it turns out it was terrorists trying to bomb times square, i think that was in 2006. are you worried? oh yeah, i'm very worried. speaking of new york, this is a front-page story of the new york times. the latest miracle on 34th street, macy's keeping the wooden escalators. a $400 million renovation of the herald square store in new york city and the wooden escalators that date back 95 years ago remain in place. security is tight around macy's and along the route of the traditional thanks giving her a. and joining us from great falls, montana. caller: hi, longtime listener. yesterday i was at the mall, i got to the door, and suddenly i was aware that i needed to worry. i did it for the first time in my 54 years of life. i became aware of it. host: because? there, they say there are sleeper cells everywhere. they really want to get us. even if they are little you have to be aware. the tsa administrator testified before members of congress earlier this month about the threats, how the tsa is dealing with heightened security, and what happens around the world. here's a portion. >> i am directly connected to my counterparts across the intelligence community. i get a daily intelligence briefing with a synthesis of what everybody sees. i am concerned about the complexity and how dynamic it is, i think it is the most complex we have seen since 9/11. what makes groups like isil particularly concerning is that they are intending to inspire operationtent to phase is compressing. the tsa administrator, that was before the terror attacks in paris. we have a few more minutes for calls and comments. the new york times, where you are flying for thanks giving and some of the busiest air travel routes from major cities. part of the upshot, clancy from tampa, florida. it morning. -- good morning. caller: good morning, how are you doing? host: fine, how are you? dueer: what i was saying is to the fact that we are nowadays seeing more negative things on and parts of the united states and they are looking at home and security because there is an agenda they are pushing out there. i believe the terrorists are the who are turning us against each other. we have to really think about this because they say isis and everything, we already know osiris. we all don't need to be blind to that fact. host: thanks for the call. generalarmy major gordon davis will join us from afghanistan in a few minutes. i want to show you a story that broke the front page and new york times, the washington post, and other publications. the headline, u.s. general saying the hospital strike was avoidable. writing from afghanistan, saying the top american commander in afghanistan, general john f. kennedy saying yesterday that several service members have afteruspended from duty an internal investigation of the american airstrike on doctors , calling thers airstrike a tragic mistake. aneral campbell read statement announcing the findings saying that avoidable human error was to blame, compounded by technical, chemical, and procedural failures. he said another factor was that members of the special forces had been fighting continuously for days and were fatigued. the strike that involve repeated attacks by special operations gunship early on october 3, killing 30 people, mostly patients, and they were being treated by doctors without borders. sharon is joining us in southport, north carolina. welcome. she hung up so we will go to doug next in ohio. caller: yes, good morning. i was calling. you mentioned a story about the wooden escalators at macy's. i just wanted to tell you that the oldest set, the first set of wooden escalators that were ever installed were installed in the which is inny public square in cleveland. up.e you brought that story host: it was an interesting story. you've been to new york and if you've been on those, its front page below the fall. nothing to do with homeland security but it's the latest miracle on 34th street. care, happytake thanksgiving. thanks for the call. a couple of notes before a break, this is from inside the washington post, politics in the nation, will trump eventually cross the line or do the night -- lines no longer exist? karen tumble to the writing trumps offensive comments and faults just keep coming although the celebrity billionaire continues his unlikely rain as the front runner of the 2016 presidential field, which raises the question, will he eventually cross the line or has he proved they no longer exist? the political world is beginning to conclude that no one will know the answer to that until republicans actually start voting in february. it increasingly appears the gop electorate may be the party's only remaining means of stopping him as voters begin to imagine what it would be like to have trump as their standardbearer or maybe even the white house. to date, his flamethrower rhetoric has made voters seem to support him all the more. join us for our questions with the chair of the iowa democratic and republican parties and also we will have live coverage of the new hampshire republican -- democratic party dinner on sunday evening and you will be able to see it online at c-span.org and the remarks by hillary clinton, bernie sanders, and martin o'malley can be seen at 9:35 and 12:35 eastern this sunday night on c-span. joe joins us from southbridge, massachusetts. homeland security and are you worried? good morning. caller: no, not really. i'm more worried about china. host: why? all the countries like vietnam need to start building islands in the china sea like china is doing. if they're going to stop trade with all the countries around there. i tell them to get with it building islands. host: thanks for the call. but he read to you from usa today. 50 million will be traveling under tight security. terror warnings casting a shadow over the travel, a piece by trevor hughes saying americans taking to the air in droves, the crash of fellow travelers and security forces brought on by the state department's global travel warning. aaa known as the american automobile association reporting that 46.9 million americans will travel more than 50 miles from home. the largest since 2007. lower gas prices, a man living ended des moines area says it was a holiday present the came early. he and his fiancee packed their kids into it suv on friday for a ski vacation. robert from trenton, missouri. welcome. caller: good morning. what i would like to know is something like that one guy calling in about the convoys up and down the highway. why can't we send our agents if just twoecause of those a-10s got in it could destroy the whole convoy. host: thanks for the call. this tweet from monty, what will we do about homegrown terrorists that killed 30,000 innocent americans yearly? you can send us a tweet at c-span. wj. you can turn -- we will turn the attention to the situation in afghanistan and joining us is major general gordon davis as we talk on this thanksgiving holiday about afghanistan and later, the health of the u.s. economy. as the washington journal continues, in case you missed it, yesterday the traditional harry that dates back to truman john f. kennedy. the turkey pardon is what it looked like yesterday from the rose garden. president obama: it is hard to believe it is my seventh year of pardoning a turkey, time flies even if turkeys don't. [laughter] >> that was good. president obama: you think it's don't you? i know something this is a little silly and i do not disagree. i've had to listen to my critics say i am often too soft on turkeys. i'm sure the press is digging into whether or not the turkeys i've pardoned every dedicated their lives to being good turkey citizens. to wishoy this chance america a happy thanksgiving. we go through challenging times and so often the news of the day can make folks discouraged. the fact is, we live in the greatest country on earth and we are blessed in so many ways, most of all because we have families and friends and people we care about. we look out for each other, we look out for our neighbors and our friends. we are grateful for the brave men and women of our military who serve all around the world, and for the families that miss them. i am especially grateful to have the privilege and the honor to serve as your president. i am also grateful for the fact that the bears will beat the packers this weekend. with that, i hope everybody has a very happy thanksgiving and i am now going to go over and with the power vested in me, officially pardon this turkey. [applause] [laughter] president obama: don't interrupt. the power vested in me, you are hereby pardoned. [applause] washington journal continues. for the past couple of years on thanksgiving, we have been joined by u.s. service members and military brass from afghanistan and we want to welcome major general gordon davis joining us from kabul, afghanistan. happy thanks giving and thank you for your service and thanks for being with us. you and your viewers, happy thanksgiving to everyone out there. it is a pretty nice day here. host: the me begin with news, this is the front page of the new york times. as you well know, saying the airstrike that hit the hospital in afghanistan on october 3 was avoidable. resulting in the depths of 30 individuals, mostly patience. operated by doctors without borders, what happened and what can be learned? the question,for i would have to first tell you that frankly, my mission is very different from the one that was involved in that operation. i can tell you what i've heard general campbell say and my knowledge of the investigation and its outcome. tragedy thatlute we would've liked to avoid, or see that not occur. i realize there was a lot of efforts to try and avoid that type of incident. as we both know, there was human error involved and procedural issues and problems with following the rules of the game. general campbell let us know that in a statement and he also theained the fact that results of the investigations continue because there are people that will be held accountable but unfortunately, we cannot bring back the people that were killed but we certainly can do our best to prevent an incident like that from ever happening again. that is our intent, to avoid casualties and do our best to help the afghan people and those helping the afghan people and achieve a secure and stable afghanistan. host: another factor listed in the statement by general campbell and this is a common factor in warfare, that is fatigued by the military men and women serving. how big of a problem is that from your standpoint? were talkingase we about, special operations forces who were assisting the afghan special operating forces, that it into play for several days. inyou recall, the situation late september, the taliban entered the village -- city ofk unduz. they ask for assistance -- the police asked for assistance from the security and some that responded were our special operations soldiers. they had been there for several ons when the event occurred the third of october. i am sure that is a factor in all of the operations that our men and women are involved in. in this case, it happens less and less frequently because we are not involved in extended combat operations. in this case, we had a special operating team as well as another air force crew that was in the event. it is something that is part of all operations. the rotation by ensuring soldiers are trained to endure and persevere and areas of fatigue. that is something -- i would like to talk about some of the things we are doing to try and help the afghan army police in a similar situation. highalso have extremely off tempo this year so we are working very hard with them to enable a operational cycle that allows them to provide time and space for their soldiers and policemen to take leave, have downtime, and conduct individual training before they are put back in the fight. that is a major emphasis we are working through with the ministry to take a more effective and help them with their police units. host: one area of success according to the new york times where helmand province you worked with the military in afghanistan and allow them to take over. what is happening specifically? guest: we are at the end of a very difficult fighting season, and an area where the taliban insurgency has made itself a main effort to try to assume control of districts and major population areas. they have not been successful in achieving their objectives but they have been successful in making it different for the afghan army to maintain control. they challenge them. the army has been able to maintain the majority of control over the population in helmand. my command is responsible for helping the army police sustain themselves. in a veryolved thorough operation to help them rebuild and reconstitute the battalions that have been fighting over this last fighting season. we are working on helping them form a plan to bring in the battalions that have been on the front lines and challenged over the last several months to come back in, reset, refit, and to fit in a better operational cycle so they can he readied by the next season next spring. the me share with our audience and remind you what the president said one year ago as the wind down continued today in afghanistan. he said the following. thanks for the extraordinary services of our extranet a min -- extra nariman and women in uniform our combat mission in afghanistan is ending and the longest war in american history is coming to a responsible conclusion. one year later where are we? we have concentrated our efforts on training, advising, and assisting will be called the afghan security institutions. and the army and police and trying to achieve a stable and secure afghanistan. we'll be transitioned from is partnering with afghan units to training and advising and assisting some of the higher task force units, primarily the army and police and also the ministries. that is our new focus on finishing -- focusing on the ministries themselves, resource management, what they need to do to equip and train and sustain the army police. incidenturing the continued to train, advice, assist the special operation forces at the battalion level and above and we also train advisors in the afghan air force. a year from where we were where we announced the mission, we are focusing on the strategic level issues that the ministries need to be able to sustain and we have made significant progress. we are obviously no longer assistingadvising, the army and brigades because we are focused on the course. are the largest organizations across afghanistan responsible for planning, organizing, synchronizing the fight, but not actually conducting the fight. our guest is major general gordon davis joining us live from kabul, afghanistan. you have a line set aside for those of you who are afghan veterans and that number is 202-748-8003. those american men and women that served over the last decade plus, and major general davis will be with us for about 40 minutes. i want to share with you a headline from the new york times. the afghan soldiers besieged by the afghanistan saying they are outgunned. where is the taliban getting its weapons? weaponry thatiban we hear often cited comes from a number of sources. the vast majority were supplied or obtained during the soviet war against afghanistan or in afghanistan i should say. there are also supplies that came from outside sources that infiltrate and and there are some that have been captured over the years from afghan forces and some from others. there's a variety of systems. they don't have the same level of weaponry that the afghan army or air force has. they don't have airplanes, or large mechanized vehicles or even significant numbers. the few they have captured over the years, but not to any large extent. weapons include machine guns of both types, primarily of soviet nature and warsaw pact origin because there were so many in the country at the time intoe -- our entry thousand one. they remain out there, they haven't been completely collected. there's a variety of sources. more importantly, they enjoy the ability to move. there is plenty of ungoverned space in afghanistan so they can move about the country. and attack in small numbers. they have had a few larger attacks this year but typically small. they are generally not out wening the afghan army or would see whole districts and provinces governed by the taliban. and they are not. they have not been able to maintain control of a single capital or major town since they began years ago. a long career with the u.s. army and rather than go through your rather lengthy and impressive resume, give us the highlights. officer am an infantry by commissioning and spent a number of years serving in europe as well as the united states. most of my deployments have been between europe, africa, and iraq and afghanistan. this is my fourth job in afghanistan and i've been here since 2008 to 2012, i was here part of every year so afghanistan is probably the one area abroad that i know the best beyond europe. stations havef my been in europe between italy, germany, the u.k., and belgium. host: where is your family on this thanks giving holiday? guest: my family right now is enjoying thanksgiving in italy. i have a daughter in the army who serves in germany. also.ilitary intelligence i have another daughter that just graduated from college in italy. altogether in a town in moving look forward to talking to them shortly after this program. host: how often can you get together based on your response abilities in afghanistan? guest: i've been here about two months so the last time i saw them was when i deployed from italy. i will see them again next spring. host: we will go to douglas joining us from massachusetts for major general gordon davis and afghanistan, go ahead. caller: good morning general davis, thank you for your service. happy thanksgiving. guest: thank you, happy thanks giving here. caller: it's a beautiful morning here in cape cod and i wish you youry and i thank you for condolences in the incident in the hospital and afghanistan. i just hope you have a great holiday, sir. think you so much for your service. ,ost: thank you for those words appreciated, i just spent the morning traveling around kabul seeing the individuals i happened command in different locations. we hope that all of their families are joining in a host: happy thanks giving today. host:host: and your earlier reference to the taliban in some of the strongholds that remain in afghanistan by that terrorist organization. the editorial posing this question, are we losing afghanistan again? from your perspective, how would you answer? guest: it's fairly easy for me to state we are not losing afghanistan. iat is fairly declaratory but would say having been here since 2008, i have seen an evolution of our effort here from leading earlier years,in certainly during the time when we searched forces here between 2012 as we were at the apex of our involvement to transferring, leading, partnering, withdrawing, and allowing the afghans to take the lead. although they've had a difficult year, we have certainly seen them be able to maintain control of the majority of the population and maintain the fight despite the fact that we have drawn some 100,000 plus troops in the last three years and they have had to shoulder the complete burden of the fight over the last two years. they have had difficulties and challenges, but they have also denied the taliban chief objectives. frankly, that's what matters. on majorban has not w area or popular support. the people are behind the army and behind the government. host: steve is joining us. a u.s. veteran serving in afghanistan from norwood, missouri. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you doing, sir. guest: happy thanks giving, steve. caller: happy thanksgiving to you, general davis. guest: what can i answer for you? sir, here's the thing. from in afghanistan twice 2011to 2009 and then from to 2012. toas also in iraq from 2005 2006 as a mid-team leader in the city of falluja. thete to say it but we said same things about iraq that we are now saying about afghanistan. i know we are probably going to be there by the end of the decade because of we are not, i am sure that country will fall apart. appreciate your service , the things you just identified in terms of your service in afghanistan and iraq, time ascorrespond to my i took command in 2009 -- 2000 -- similartty sure i have views or at least a similar experience working with the iraqi security forces and the afghan security forces. i would say the difference is we are taking a longer view in terms of our partnership and support to the afghan army police than we do with the iraqi security forces. we have a larger number of forces here then one we were in 2003 to 2011. we came off in 2011 and achieved global support. i remember my teammates and iraq in 2011 talking to me about the drawdown and withdrawal from iraq and trying to share the load. some of the things we have learned is we had commanders visit us in theater here so we would make sure we were taking some of what we learned as we do in iraq by continuing efforts in afghanistan. some of it was making sure the afghans had the time to lead the campaign effort, lead the effort against the insurgents. to hold on toied this too long and iraq. we did try to take some of the lessons from there and apply that to our experience and afghanistan and we have used that in the campaign planning. i was the head of future plans in 2011 and stayed on to be a deputy commanding general in region command east as we went through a whole year process and policeghan army brothers and sisters, letting them take the lead and planning the campaign with synchronization. like them take the lead in targeting, and then supporting that effort. we come up from the brigades and battalions advisory effort, we are now still doing the core level effort and regional police and frankly, that's not something we were able to do in iraq. we had to withdraw rapidly over the last years. now, president obama has given us another year to work with the army and police in this region to help ensure the systems and processes that we need to inculcate will remain. we measure that in terms of their taking ownership of those systems. we're seeing them take ownership. now it takes time to educate and for them to cater the processes to their own culture and experience, skill sets. i think that's the biggest tension between what we did in iraq and what we are trying to get back in there and reestablish the connective tissue and help them through the -- i think that's what we have greater hope for success. the street asin he watches the program, saying thanks to all serving or have served especially over there. joining us, another veteran that served in afghanistan. good morning. caller: yes, good morning. i have a question for general davis. have the rights to future plan? i am a 28 year army veteran, i currently work for the department of defense. i see all the reports about the taliban overrunning the afghan national army checkpoints. there is a train and assist strategy, does it really work? it seems we are being overrun and losing the war. look back in history, for example in the philippines after world war ii, we remained for 40 years. our efforts in iraq and afghanistan require a much longer strategic plan to help them grow their democracies rather than the short-term, eight years in iraq. 12 years in afghanistan. servicehanks for your and happy thanks giving and your family as well. i would say you have hit on a great point. i think the strategic partnership and a long commitment are exactly what afghanistan needs from not just the u.s. from the international community. them theo give confidence we will be there helping them through the challenges ahead. helping a younger brother or sister, i wouldn't say a child because they are much more mature than that, but it's like helping them through, gaining the education and skills they need to carry the fight as effectively as possible. although there have been over runs, they do have way too many checkpoints with too few forces. .hey are making corrections now in the cases of where they have had checkpoints or districts overrun, they are boys recaptured them. theyhey realize is extended themselves too much and had to reduce checkpoints so they can increase maneuverability. it's taken them years to figure that out and on that as a problem, but they are going to a systematic settlement and a reduction of checkpoints which reduces their vulnerability and will allow them to add a greater offense of capability to get after the insurgents. they're going after the post fighting season currently, bracing for the next one. but going back to europe last point -- going back to your last think all the viewers and listeners should take away this is a long fight for the afghan army police. although it is not popular among the people has the capability because of the terrain and environment to operate. afghanistan is surrounded by course borders so the ability to bring in fighters and resources will continue. it is a regional effort that needs to be put in place to help afghanistan stem its problem. held on, itartially is also supported from abroad so they have a lot of problems beyond a single nation's capability to address but it's not hopeless. it may be hard but they are gaining ground and their holding ground. they're are not losing to the taliban. borders alsothe invite isis or other terrorist organizations and openings to set up operations in afghanistan? guest: i only heard part of the question but you're asking a question about isis and their presence in afghanistan, is that correct? there is a presence. i think it was first identified late last year. it became a concern early on for in the nudebell administration. we have watched it fairly carefully. it is -- in the new administration. it is not gaining critical mass and momentum, but it has had a difficult time in getting popular support. not the least of which because of the brutal tactics they employed. generally wherever they operate they have engendered popular push back and blowback because of their brutal tactics. they are not gaining ground. the other aspect is the majority of these are disenfranchised splinter groups of the taliban or related insurgents that are claiming allegiance to isis to gain popular support because they want to follow on the coattails of what they see as a successful movement, but that is not the case in afghanistan. a big part of their non acceptance by the people is they are not seen as local. many people support them from resources abroad or influence abroad and do not reflect afghan and muslim values. guest: a very quick follow up on another note from a viewer, and i know this is way above your pay grade, but the viewer says in your opinion will be u.s. be required to have a permanent presence in afghanistan with a military base? that is a great question and it is about my pay grade in terms of policy. in terms of interests to the united states, we do not want to see afghanistan ever returned to be a safe haven for terrorists that can attack our homeland.it is in our interests to continue to ensure those terrorists are prevented from getting a safe haven and assuring the afghan police have the tools to prevent those types of terrorist groups from gaining ground and safe haven. i think it is one of those areas where we will continue to assess and continue to assess on the resources required, also the capacity of the afghan army police. host: approximately how many servicemen and women are in afghanistan today? guest: we have approximately 10,000 serving in afghanistan right now. 6500 allies about and partners serving in afghanistan. host: our guest is major general gordon davis joining us from kabul. john from utah on the democrats line, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you general for your service, and happy thanksgiving, and stay safe out there. i just have a question. i am a big study of history. these people in that part of the region of the world have wars for hundreds of years. i don't think there has been peace since 1490. this is a religious war we are in. these people fight for hundreds of years. how can we even imagine shaping that fight when we are part of that fight against their religion. we bring people in. and thee a holy war world scenario where we fight them. it justoing there, promotes that en. how can we ever that-- that end. how can we ever hope to end the war? guest: happy thanksgiving. that is a tough question. here is a lot of violence but it is less than over past centuries. century was inh fact quite peaceful. there were some struggles at different times and certainly here but there was some piece in the 1940's through the mid-1970's. it was considered three decades of peace and prosperity and development. in the in the south valley with dams and building airfields. at the time the soviet union was building airfields in the north. we were competing for influence in afghanistan. there are other periods like that. lates only until the 1970's through the 1980's, and the violence that continued after the occupation that has characterized this country as an area of constant violence. that is what the people have known, generally. support andrying to suppress the population. the endct in terms of of the world, that is more of an isis aspect that is related to how isis is operating in syria and attempting to gain ground in syria and iraq. that is not really apply to afghanistan. there is much more of a religious, they are very autonomous people. they do not believe in large expensive movements. they have not supported that. they are looking for a certain level of autonomy vis-a-vis the government. movements, external they generally have not supported them. the only time they came together in the last few decades against a common foe was let me when the mujahedin were not unified. the were a lot of small grassroots fighting against the soviets. whemur joined theve now army police. they revolted against some of the extreme powerbrokers. it is not a religious war in terms of conflict across afghanistan. the taliban have tried to make it want to try to speak to what they think are traditional afghan cultural values, but they have not gained a larg large por support. they are joined in the single digits support in some areas of the country, but not wholesale allegiance. it is not as religious as we might see the conflict in syria and iraq. it is a long answer, by wanted to dispel -- but i wanted to dispel some of the ideas that this is a religious war. they very much see us as a stabilizing effect. we are providing them support. it is welcomed support. surveys we do every 90 days or so continue to upper the support for army and police and the coalition in support of the army and police. they do not see us as occupiers persay or coming here for our own gain. host: richard on the independent line, thank you for waiting. caller: morning. my nephew is in his third year as a jag air force officer. he will be leaving for afghanistan in april for the first time. he has a two month old and a two and a half-year-old son. 's mom is safety with worry that -- his mom is sick with worry about his safety there. i would like to call her and say it is fine. happy thanksgiving to you and your family. we do everything we can to ensure the safety of the soldiers, airmen, sailors as well as civilians and marines we have here. indaughters have served their very first assignment here in afghanistan. i have a lot of equity in making sure that this is the place that we sent our brothers and sisters safely. we make sure they are trained for the environment they will operate in. we ensure wherever we go, we take extra security measures and keep ourselves situationally aware. we know where people are. we also have the protective and defensive measures around the places we lived to ensure we can defend on any front that they may come. we work with our afghan partners. we use a system called guardian angels. these are men and women who have trained to carry weapons and provide security around the areas we work in ministries and various locations, etc. ours has been my fourth t in afghanistan, and i can tell you i feel very secure with the systems and measures in place. host: gordon majors is a graduate of the academy in west point, and he is joining us from afghanistan. jack is from illinois. good morning. caller: morning, sir. i have a question. the all of noticing the vehicles isis is driving, ford'ss and and dodge's. and all ofng online the heavy equipment and guns are all computer operated. they live by like they claim they can do in the states and kill one of those computers in the vehicles. then they don't have to shoot nobody. guest: happy thanksgiving to you. i will tell you most of the systems you are talking about in terms of electronics in vehicles for armored vehicles or any type of vehicle are isolated. expert in technical communications or information technology, but i do know that those are systems that are difficult to attack. you frankly cannot do that with electronic measures. those really require almost a physical destruction to affect. host: very quickly, what concerns you the most being on the ground in afghanistan? what is your biggest fear? guest: frankly, i go back to one of the things i said earlier. that is a great christian. we will not -- that is a great question. we will not have the perseverance to see this through because of the cost. we are working very hard to drive down the costs so our efforts are more affordable to the country. we know that the army and police are frankly, and the afghan .eople, depend on our support they know we will be there in terms of a long enduring partnership, a commitment to their success. they will have the confidence, the trust that we will help when needed, and they will basically happy morale and wherewithal to continue on. they are very concerned with our periodic commitment, ourselves, our allies, and our partners. will concerns me most is not that we will not make progress, but that we might abandon too early before we become a sustainable effective force. host: how will you and your units celebrate thanksgiving on this thursday? guest: we already started. it is late afternoon here. we are about 9.5 hours ahead of you, so we are getting into early evening. some of us already had thanksgiving lunch o across afghanistan. we will have a thanksgiving dinner. i will be with other leaders serving for our troops. host: major general gordon davis joining us from kabul, afghanistan. thank you for joining us. happy thanksgiving. guest: thank you and happy thanksgiving. host: we will turn our attention to the jobs and the economy. different perspectives as the nation prepares for black friday, the busy traditional shopping day the day after thanksgiving. we will have brendan duke and ger, and later allison klein will give us an update on the debate over no child left behind as congress returns next week. how congress is working on some significant changes to the administration. senator mike lee paying tribute to those who serve the u.s. first. [video clip] i like to take > a moment to celebrateand thanksgiving. america's exceptional because of what we do. i think will for our men and women who protect our national security and the american way of life, especially those of you serving overseas this holiday. you and your families are in our prayers. i am thankful for the untold millions of americans who serve their communities, with in their jobs or in their spare time. for those who spend a portion of their holiday giving the less fortunate in food banks, senior centers, and homeless shelters. your generosity and compassion inspire us all. your acts of kindness, large and small, are what binds us together. i am thankful for the moms and dads out there who worked so hard to provide a loving and supporting home for their children. you are the building blocks of the united states. everything we do begins with you. there are many challenges facing our nation today. many individuals, families, and communities are struggling. we have too many americans trapped in poverty, sometimes for generations. often because the -- often because the dysfunctional big government programs make it too difficult. to many hard-working families are being stressed to the breaking point and beyond as health care costs, payroll costs increaseth car other while pay remains stagnant. despite these challenges and the discredited i partisan status quo in washington, are convinced that best days as a nation remain ahead of us. my optimism for america's future is not some starry eyed wishful thinking. i know it will take time and hard work to overcome the problems with our economy and to rise above the dysfunction in our politics, but we always confront them head on. in america, freedom has never met you are on your own. for us to my freedom means and has always meant we are all in this together. >> washington journal continues. host: our focus on jobs, the economy, and your wages. our guests this morning, brendan duke, who is the economic policy analyst for the center of economic progress, and stan veuger, a scholar at the american enterprise institute. we begin with a very basic question. the state of the u.s. economy today is what? guest: pretty good and improving. host: what are some of the red flags, potential issues that could derail the economy? has had a slow recovery, but it has been a recovery. >> we have had 16 months of consecutive private sector job growth. we see unemployment at 5%. theee we are going past - but we have not seen wages increase as we would like. host: when you talk about raising interest rates, we talk , so how theyease would that be? >> they already raised them by signaling they would raise the future. growing, with the me-aged workers below the trend, it is of 2%g up a signal inflation as a ceiling rather than a target, which is concerning for those of us worried about it. host: the rich continue getting richer but the poor have a safety net but continue to get poorer. when you hear that, what is your reaction? stan veuger: it is saddening. low skilled workers i don't think are anywhere near back to where they were five to 10 years ago. younger workers have seen their participation rates dropped significantly since the onset of the great recession. i think that is the most worrisome part of the economy. i think that's fair. host: economic spending a big barometer in the economy. a photograph dating back to the late 1930's. frequent was about carving a turkey, and the story from the business section of the "new york times,." president toed the move thanksgiving one week earlier because it was the very last day of november. they wanted more time between thanksgiving and christmas, leading to the development of lif black friday. is black friday over? clearlyduke: there has been a shift from storefront of shoppingl sorts changes over the past 80 years to how we sell goods. i think one of the concerns there is that when workers do not have money, businesses do not have customers. we are looking at the financial statements of retailers. riskswo thirds have cited to their stock prices. that is double the share citing that before the crisis. i think you see sellers worried about the state of the american consumer. money,stomers not have they will not have very good sales. host: agree or disagree? obviously, the great recession and the financial crisis left a deep impression on the consumers and businesses a light. -- alike. people are more worried about risks than they were in the 2000 2000's or0's -- the the 1990's. the euro has been on the brink of collapse for years now. risk of a lot of massive conflict in the middle east. that is a reasonably large list of potential risks. i can see why that would make you think there may be a chance my customers will suffer from that in the near future. host: a resident scholar at the american enterprise institute is a graduate of harvard university, where he earned his undergraduate and doctorate. brendan duke is a graduate of mcallister college and earn his masters in economics and public policy. we are talking about jobs, the economy, and your wages. if you are currently out of work or have been underemployed, the 03.ber to call is 202-748-80 our guests will be with us for a full hour. there is a lot of tensio attentn on pfizer. the company is claiming it is money back into the american economy, but critics say it is nothing more than a tax dodge. brendan duke: i think critics are right. they are looking to save money, and that is what businesses do. it points to the need to make it harder for companies to do it crackdown on enforcement and take the steps to make it so our tax code makes it harder for those looking to lower their tax point. pfizerr companies like talking about the importance of the u.s. market for their sales because we do not have any of the price controls that other countries have. we have seen a ton of money here. tax bill would go from 25% to 70% or 18%. 17%hat what this is that -- or 18%. is that what it is about? stan veuger: it certainly is what makes it attractive. suddenly large part of its earnings become favorable. i think that is part of it. to address that is to bring u.s. corporate tax rates more in line with other countries as corporate tax regimes. host: this from a viewer saying the cost of obama's regulations created this failed recovery. has that been a factor? stan veuger: i think there has been a lot of activist happening, certainly in the first two years of the obama presidency. but at the same time, i think it is hard to argue that the overhang and other problems from the financial crisis did not play a major role. host: stan veuger and brendan duke. we welcome our listeners on c-span radio in the baltimore washington area and coast-to-coast on xm satellite radio and streamed on the web. eddie from mitchell, indiana. good morning. welcome to the conversation. caller: good morning. living in this county, the only jobs around here are in a place thing.hat is a government run if there was not a war, there would not be much going around here. most of the business around here that is going is small business. they do not pass their money on down to the employees. they more or less keep it for themselves. thank you. host: thanks for the call. brendan duke: i do think that is an issue. that profits are at an all-time high and companies are doing well, but the workers are not benefiting from it. the u.s. census bureau released numbers andcome there was no growth in medium income from 2013 to 2014. at the same time, the economy has been growing. economic growth is certainly necessary, and we need to do everything we can to get there, but it is not sufficient for most workers. minimum wage would put money into their pockets so they can benefit. host: anybody look at the stock market? is that their barometer for how the economy is doing? stan veuger: it is one of the measures. of the things like personal .ncomes, overall gdp growth i don't think focusing on the substantive companies that are large and publicly traded would give you a comprehensive view of the u.s. economy. it really gives you some idea what those companies are seeing as likely to do in the future. it is to some extent driven by the interest rate environment in which we have been for a few years now. carolina on the republican line, good morning. good morning. caller: hello. i am not in north carolina. i am in tennessee, but that is ok. host: you made it on the air. caller: i have a question for your guests. i would like to know what they feel like the true rate of unemployment is given that there is so many people that are not even working any longer. i will get off-line and let them comment. brendan duke: i think a great -- people withr a job is a good number of looking at that. to 54, thege 25 share of males who have a job is three percentage points lower today than it was in 2007. ithink that is a time that is definitely higher than it was reentered the crisis, but there is a long way to go in terms of getting people jobs and getting enough people with jobs so we can see the growth create a virtuous cycle of economic growth. atlanticm the magazine, this recent article. are higher wages eliminating restaurant jobs? now the seven major cities have implemented raises, the race is on to assess the impact. stan veuger: that is a concern. that theyout there think the increase in minimum wage during the bush administration that could be the worst point of the recession but about 1.4 million people out of work. as wee similar patterns continue to increase the minimum wage. example, bernie sanders and have both endorsed a -- $15imum wage that 15 an hour minimum wage. only 5% make $15 per hour right now. you put the entire segment of the labor force out of work basically forever because they will not accumulate work experience.they will not find work in the 30's as well . host: "new york times" with a piece this morning on the front page below the fold. you can also read it online at nytimes.com. chris from buffalo, new york. how long have you been out of a job? caller: about a year and a half now. host: what did you do before you lost your work? caller: i worked in the printing industry for a large press shop. i worked for a graphics company for 32 years, which was at one time the world's largest printing company. theere actually put in guinness book of world records for putting out the most product out of one plant in the world. closed soplant is they can move it to a nonunion shop down in tennessee. ien it comes to minimum wage, worked a total of 62 years. 22 years in the restaurant business, 32 years in the printing business, and seven years i had my own building maintenance job. i overlapped jobs. every time i got a raise, it was because minimum wage went out. p.en though i was -- went u even know i was making more than minimum wage, when the minimum wage did not go up. businesses should take a little bit out of their pockets and give it back to the people who work for them. host: thank you very much for the call. brendan duke: i think chris is pointing out a real concern, which is that low-wage workers have not been getting raises and the minimum wage has been one of the few ways we have seen to a compass that. there is a nice ripple effect. for example, when he raised the minimum wage, people get wage gains to the 25th percentile. there are benefits from minimum wage increases. there is a lot of studies on the question of how the minimum wage affects employment. the university of chicago recently did a poll of top economists including several nobel prize winners, and they asked them what would be the effect of unemployment on a $15 minimum wage. 62% said they did not think it would have an effect or that they just do not know what the impact is. we are at a point where people do not really see a strong relationship between employment and the minimum wage. at the same time, it is one of the few ways we know to raise wages for workers in a scenario where the labor market is and they have more marketing power than workers do. this is a win-win for workers and employers. host: roger from chicago on the independent line, good morning. caller: good morning. good show. i want to say the u.s. economy is in very strong shape. there are jobs available, but not enough people are qualified. i can understand people in their early 50's that worked in manufacturing and some are starting to get laid off and they have to go back to training . it becomes hard. , i think jobs are available. entitlement.et i am not knocking down people that have needs and they need the government's help, but once you are given government and it is $1200 or $1500 a month, what incentive does a person have? there are so many things available in this country in terms of reshaping yourself, but people fall into the trap. what the government is to do is have more programs where people can be trained for the high-tech jobs. host: roger, let me jump in on one point you said based on the caller from buffalo. you said jobs are available. what about communities that have lost work in part because plants have moved not necessarily out of the country, but to texas, tennessee, south carolina, and other states, living those communities without jobs. what would you say to those communities? caller: that is a million-dollar question. how do we get people to move to different states? the government needs to get involved in such a way that it can be helpful in terms of giving them some kind of reimbursement for moving. it becomes hard. host: thanks for the call. you can go: i think to more active policies like activating relocation doctorsm, bu -- relocation vouchers. we have seen over the last 20 or 30 years the kind of convergence in unemployment rates has basically disappeared compared to what we used to see. cities impose massive restrictions on new buildings, zoning. people that used to move the to those booming places no longer do. there is a mismatch in training and job openings. i think that maybe a little bit of a concern in narrow defined in sectors, but typically i think college graduates do very well. high school dropouts do not. it is more of a broad education background problem than a very narrow skill mismatch problem. host: brendan duke and stan veuger. next on the republican line, good morning. caller: i am a lifelong republican, but i have been fighting with the gop since the tradeavored nation status for china. this is what killed the economy, and this is what is preventing the economy from recovering. send in rural areas manufacturing was the employer for three classes. the cost of living has gone up 67% since then, but wages have gone up 12%. in small rural areas, there is no employment, and there is not going to be any employment. republicanse play into the hands of progressives. $12average ceo pay is now million a year. republicans will not even say let minimum wage be $10. speaking as someone who has been employed for five years, and that period, my private pension was reducedmy pension went from -- reduced. my social security went from $2200 to $1400. this is the reality of america, and these people are ignoring the fact. host: thank you very much for the call, deborah. debra is pointing out the feeling of being squeezed out of ends. wages are not going up while a lot of the basic costs of living like housing, education, and healthcare.gov in price a lot -- and health care have gone up in price a lot, which leaves a lot of people feeling squeezed. areas that have been more exposed to competition from china have experienced worse employment growth, even an increase in disability. there is a concern in that just tradeg something free-tr is not enough to create widespread economic growth. host: that was the earlier point about these vouchers. if you are out of work and you might be able to work from buffalo -- move from buffalo to get a job in tennessee, where does that leave companies? is complicated, and i do not think anyone would argue that the free-trade agreement does not produce winners and losers. will we have not figured out is the signs. with real.k those effects are brendan justt cited is conclusive. if you are competing directly with foreign competitors, you lose market share. there will be downward wages. believe the rest of society gains more from opening up the trade with new partners and new industries, there is still this concern about the people who used to work in the sectors. , it is not that different from competition within the u.s. there are sectors that disappear and i go into decline constantly. it is true protecting drivers -- and that go into decline constantly. it is true for taxi drivers now. i am not sure how we are going to address that, but it is a real concern. it is one of the driving factors behind the popularity of donald trump or bernie sanders even. host: our topic is the health of the u.s. economy. darren is on the phone from louisville, kentucky. i understand your brother is out of work. tell us about him. caller: yes, that is correct. it is a higher-level job. it has to do with the tax department. i noticed with large corporations that a lot of the jobs have been outsourced to ireland and warsaw. acquisition that pfizer has undergone, i did not know if you could touch base on that again. host: thank you. what i will say about employment growth is for decades without the way to reduce income inequality and raise wages was to give more people education. higher skilled workers, workers with more education, do better with higher wages and are less likely to be unemployed. since 2000, i think the data has given us reasons to worry about the education as the solution for all solutions, and we need to look to other solutions in addition to education and training. employment growth among high high skilled workers was not there between 2000 and 2007. there was not much wage growth among that group either. there has not been much wage growth in that group since the great recession either. there have been some more interests for postgrads. much has not been employment growth and wage growth for people with just a college degree. att takes a need to look there is not a silver bullet to this question. die.: quick comment from o -- odile. may be brendan wants to expand on this, but i will go to pfizer for a moment. caller.respond our i think it is not weird to see that if you have the highest corporate tax rate in the developed world, using corporations move abroad to places that are more attractive to investors. incomeof that worldwide as opposed to local territorial income, you will see they will also move headquarter functions like tax departments and things like that because it is more valuable to be a foreign company than a u.s. corporation because of the different tax treatment you receive. that is a logical consequence of policy choices made in the u.s. and something about democrats and republicans at least in the last election agreed on that the u.s. corporate tax system needs to be reformed to make it attractive for firms to be based here rather than ireland or poland. host: a viewer sent us this tweet. we just found a plant which was owned by the arabs is being sold to the chinese. layoffs are coming. caller: good morning. i listened to the exchanges, and i have a problem. my problem is this. the united states has been a leader in terms of the global economy. home, we have not done anything. we have a president we elected, and we are seeing he disappointed us, but he did not disappoint us. we disappointed him. he tried to get a highway bill. he tried to get the roads repaired. congress would not let him. that would have created jobs for the middle class. the middle class would have been in a situation where they would have been buying and paying taxes. bridges to beand built. workerse the layoffs calling their congressman? we don't care if you don't like the president, and you need to do what we needed to do. when it comes to the minimum people would be qualified for food stamps. it would save the government money. we don't get a raise in social security. as seniors, we do not drive cars. host: thank you for the call. see veuger: i am glad to there is people outside of the obama family that believes it is the country that has disappointed him, not have the has disappointed the country. after some of the other concerns, manufacturing in the united states has been in decline as an industry for 40 years now. that is not something that is exclusive to the united states. often seen as is a model export economy with relatively high wages and strong bargaining rights for workers and things like that, has seen a similar pattern. manufacturing employment as a share for labor force has dropped by 50% since 1970. part of that is globalization. the large part is also technological progress. it has made a lot of goods a lot cheaper. that is part of the equation that people often forget. again, partially because there are concentrated losers than winners in these the elements. vote onif we held a would you want to swap higher manufacturing employment for the kind of electronics we had in 1970 that people would choose the higher manufacturing employment, certainly for the people who were harmed by the decline in manufacturing employment, i could see how dealing with that could go the other way. viewer.is is from a what college degree would you recommend for the guy detailing my truck? he makes way more than minimum wage. thatan duke: i think clearly going to college certainly raises wages and qualifies you for a long jobs and makes it easier for people to do that. i think it is a concern that it is not enough. there is this thing called the cruel game of musical chairs where what happens in delhi is in the labor market what starts happening is people with college degrees cannot find jobs that we normally think of as college degree jobs. jobsstart competing for that require less qualification. they take the job instead of somebody who would traditionally take that job and it trickles down. there is a problem where we think about ways to actually get the economy going, to have the hiring demand we need. infrastructure really raises a point that borrowing costs are superlow. it makes a lot of sense to make investments in infrastructure right now. any ceo of any company would be making investments right now. with the kind of interest rates we face, i think that it makes a lot of sense to make infrastructure investments. the international monetary fund it hasly said been a lack of aggregate demand. missing these investments in infrastructure is likely to crowd in private sector investment and create a cycle of economic growth. host: brendan duke with the center for american progress and stan veuger with the american enterprise institute. sean is joining us hanover, massachusetts. how long have you been out of work? caller: about 10 years ever since i got into an accident. host: what did you do prior to that? caller: security. host: where have you lived that how have you lived that -- how have you lived and what have you lived on? caller: basic assistance, but it has been rough. i wanted to incidentally is question from pennsylvania first. all of those construction questions, you know when you drive down the highway and you see one guy in the hole and five guys staring at him, those go to union jobs. it is not really matter. we hear this every year about minimum wage. isn't it true that the more money that is out there, rent goes up, they have utility bills, so people ask for more money, and then 10 years down the road, let's say we make the minimum wage $100 because of excess feel good. 10 years from now, we will be talking about 200 more dollars. it just never ends. i think we need a new system. just because it makes us feel good, we have $50 an hour gives dot mcdonald's, not have the incentive to go get an education, get a job, do the things they need to do to make themselves better and a families. i should quit my job and flip burgers for $15 an hour. they pay more than they are paying for security. stan veuger: i think that is a real concern. i am worried that large parts of the progressive movement that because of now have started buying into this logic where they want to put the federal minimum wage at what is now the 60th percentile of hourly workers in texas, $15 an hour. i guess it was basically this round number. that number is crazy, i think. it is the logic you are laying out where you say why not make it $100 an hour? the other point on the incentives or educational incentives that come from having very generous welfare provisions, i think that is a vote concern. effective marginal tax rates for a lot of people are basically market two $40,000 in income a year, so i think your concerns are valid. i also want to go back to brendan's point earlier on now being a good time to massively borrow. i think the u.s. gdp has ramped up quite a bit since the start of the great depression. i think we should try to squish it down so that hopefully not but if something bad happens to the economy again, there is room fall fromith the out that. when we doat a time not have much of a monetary policy margin either. host: where are the jobs growing? where is the jobs market tightening? construction, professional and business services, restaurants and bars, education and health services, transportation, warehousing. increase in utilities. logging. mining and manufacturing has seen moderate growth. hotel and lodging seeing a decline in the number of jobs in recent months. the photograph available online at wsj.com. keit joiningt to us on the democrats lineh. good morning. caller: good morning. i really dislike the idea of vouchers to relocate. homes, families, live license is where we live. this is not the 18th century. thank you so much. brendan duke: it is certainly not a policy i would endorse. what you can do to support my government action, offering people relocation vouchers to deal with consequent to trade --ls that constant consequence of trade deals is something you can do. host: haven't we outsourced most of our underlying jobs? don't --er: i host: underlying economy, i should say. stan veuger: what people often think of as the economy is a typical production of wages. i am not sure that is necessarily the whole economy. i am also not sure it is the highest value added part of the economy necessarily. for example, iphones are manufactured and assembled in design andthe telephone part of that supply chain are here in the u.s. that is the part of the supply chain where you have the highest , where the kind of skills the u.s. and other developing economies are necessarye, not appear manufacturing part. host: this comes up any time we talk about minimum wage. sure the wages not be based on the cost of living in the state -- wherethat where you you live? brendan duke: sure. that is an important question. especially when it comes to minimum wage policy. if we are going to have a strong floor of a minimum wage across the country so there is not a race to the bottom across the country, but i think you are seeing states and cities across the country taking actions to raise wages themselves. for example, seattle, san francisco, they have been setting their minimum wages to some in d.c. have come to $12. we are targeting different levels of minimum wage across the country to deal with the different costs of living, different median wages. i think that is a sensible approach, but it is important to have a strong minimum wage floor because i think we want to be in it is a race to the top instead of a race to the bottom. host: one other barometer courtesy of the "washington journal." it has risen sharply but its impact on spending is the smallest in decades. 2015. from 1990 through mike on the independent line, good morning. caller: morning. i don't know where to start. has anybody noticed that the decrease in union membership and the increase in the disappearance of the middle class have gone hand-in-hand? the right to work in all of the states have not been anything. i was the vice president of my ddion for 20 some-o years. they never finished the sentence. it was the right to work for less. host: before you go to your point, tell us about what you did in the union you represented. caller: i was vice president of my union local for a long time on the railroad. i don't even know where to begin with this. the minimum wage, the has never been any study to show that an increase in minimum wage decreases jobs in the united states. that is a smokescreen for the corporations to throw up their red flags. it is ridiculous. i have one other problem. i am retired now. i have left the workforce. i am not looking for another that is crazy for the retiree to be included in that work participation rate. thank you. guest: i think his point about unions is dead on. we have a lot of research showing one third of the increase in wage inequality over the past 30 or 40 years is explained by the union. ecv share of income going to the middle class. declining in trend with the decline in unions. i think unions are an important part of what next the country work. there was a nice study at at interestoking groups. most of the interest groups that actually push for policies that were supported by the middle class, supported by low income americans were labor unions. there is a strong part of the picture. study and idid a worked on it for a while looking at the relationship between unions and intergenerational mobility. unions are really strongly correlated with intergenerational mobility. kids these stats did not graduate college make about 25% -- if thesimilar kids kids were any union versus similar kids his parents were not. i think we have a strong relationship between unions and intergenerational mobility and they are a big part of the picture for the decline of flat wages. we need to think about measures to give workers a stronger voice, especially now that the labor market has been getting kind of loser over the past few decades. we have not had a stronger demand. workers do well when they're cometo bargain and able to with a position of strength. a titer labor market is part of that in a stronger union is another part of that. brandon -- as well as organizations including save the children and families usa. dan at the american and presents a divisive former teaching fellow at harvard and former washington fellow for the national review institute. this is a tweet from victor. " the elephant in the room is the great recession of 2008. it was contrived by hostage takers." i'm assuming he's referring to the financial firms and wall street. guest: maybe. i'm not sure i would use the term hostage taker but i do agree the financial crisis and the outfall from it are an important cause of both the economy's poor performance of the last 15 years and the anxiety and discontent that we are hearing from a number of these callers. i want to go back to our last color --c caller. he is right that a lot of people with union jobs typically did better than the people excluded from the labor market by the union's. -- unions. i don't think strong unions help the population overall. -- healthy union insiders they help the union insiders but a measure outside of that we can say much about it. what i do think is impressive is that the unions and people closely allied with them have convinced so many people that supply and demand doesn't exist in the labor market and as the caller said there has never been a study showing that minimum wage increases have negative employment effect. that is just not true. host: "when unions demand outside wages, jobs disappear. supply and demand is nonnegotiable." .a. passes al higher minimum wage, the unions exempt themselves in the rules that can capture a large part of the labor market. i think it was a consensus until the 1990's about minimum wage is having reasonably big negative employment effect. there have been some studies, some of them by former labor activists trying to explain away those declines of the last 20 years. i think most of the evidence still ports -- points towards the fact, as -- effect, especially on low skilled workers and young workers. i think we are fooling ourselves if they think the effect does not exist. host: we are talking about the economy from two different perspectives. ray on the republican line. caller: good morning. i had a couple of statements. the first is in regard to the last caller about the unions. i joined the union way back when i was a young man and work for a company for about two years and i was out of work six months walking the picket line. we never gain anything from doing that. i think the unions have gone overboard. that's a lot of the reason why we cannot compete with other countries in the selling of commodities. -- i think the american people are not as patriotic as they used to be. they will go to the store and buy something made in china when there's something made in the u.s. they pay a little more but they're helping a worker in this country. host: thanks for that call. a response from both points. brendan? guest: i think it's hard to argue that the u.s. is not competitive because of unions. about 6% of private-sector workers who are in the union today. the u.s. was certainly competitive and did very well. back in trade surplus the 1950's and 19 six is what we had unions. i think -- 1960's when we had unions. gas response will for any shortfall in competitiveness. i'll the supply demand thing, i think that we do have a lot of evidence for supply and demand working. you do need to take another perspective on it and take the model a little bit deeper. for example, higher wages reduces turnover which reduces the cost to the employer. if no longer the case that the price has gone up or the good they are getting. i think i need to go a little bit of the simple supply and demand curve that you learned economy 101. you have to think a little about about the effects of a policy and middleweight on turnover and productivity and vacancies. going back to the caller about the demand point. didchicago federal reserve a study looking at the effect on consumer spending a minimum wage increases and saw that a minimum wage hike of one dollar consumer spending by $2800 per worker per year. something along those lines. we have good evidence that the minimum wage does increased consumer spending. we are right now at a spot in the economy where consumer said -- spending would be a good thing. a lot of the retailers on black friday are looking for that. host: our friend jan who sent -- it is a regular viewer send in this about saturday, reminding folks that this is small business saturday. shop local small businesses. put your money where your mouth is. ida may, where is circleville, ohio? caller: about 20 minutes from columbus. it is such a nice thanksgiving day here. host: we are glad to hear from you. happy thanksgiving. caller: i'm a 31-year widow. i can go down the line and talk about all the presidents i remember. but i would like to talk about our governor here in ohio. i love ohio. i was born and raised here. -- my husband was born and raised here. i am from missouri. i would like to talk about what kasich has done for our state. every bill he could in the first week was all constitutional. he took the rail out. it went to california. then he took the state taxes away from the teachers. they lost a lot of retirement. to the ambulances, fire stations, all that. civil workers went down. our roads are horrible. i am kind of crippled right now. when i ride in an ambulance is is a horrible ride. he worked for the lehman brothers and is the first bank that went down. he claims right now that he was to be president. jobs ohio was unconstitutional. he wanted to privatize them. these bills. he would not higher a black person. they had to walk up there and straighten him out. he took our soup kitchen away from us. he took our thanksgiving dinner away from us with all these vets and poor people in the churches had to come in and ask this were a little donation for them. when they voted him in, if you watch his video, he was bought and paid for by the koch brothers. host: who is your candidate in this race? he would be best for the u.s. economy? caller: i kind of like bernie. host: final point? i would like to have john kerry in their. -- there. host: have a nice thanksgiving holiday. will you be with your family? caller: not really. they live in nelsonville and i'm physically disabled. they will come up here and bring me a little bit of turkey. host: have a good holiday. caller: john kasich is trying to be president now. nobody votes for him but the republicans. now and the seven koch brothers are buying him. host: thanks. i assume you might agree with her. [laughter] the more conservative point of view. guest: i think governor kasich was elected with 70% of the vote in ohio. she might be an outlier within her own state. i don't know. i certainly sympathize with some of her struggles but i have a hard time understanding why she would believe that the governor he got reelected with a 40 point margin would be the one you should single out as being bought and paid for the koch brothers. i understand there was an obsession of the left with the koch brothers and the work they do. i have never really understood why or how that of session came into being. --obsession came into being. my bigger problem it was -- is with pepsi. i don't understand say give it kasich would be the one bought and paid for. host: she mentioned lehman brothers. " all the money goes to juicing wall street. washington, d.c. does not care about the american people or the poor." guest: partially driven by the fact that the large wall street banks and other nonbank financial firms bore most of the blame for the financial crisis. i think that is a reasonable sentiment. i think washington has very aggressively, some might say overregulated the financial sector in the last few years. banks now payrge $1 billion fines every other week to the federal government. i don't think that view is still correct but i can see whether some lingering resentment. host: we have two callers waiting. ray in litchfield? republican line? caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. -- youd to talk about hear about manufacturing moving overseas. abusesto talk about some with the visa. maybe two or three months ago i read an article in the new york times about how a couple of cases -- what is toys "r" us and the other was an insurance company. they were in new york city. they were bringing in people from india to sit and have .merican workers at toys "r" us he has the trains individual about how she did her job and when the person was trained they went back to india and she was laid off. a couple of months before that i saw an article about how disney was doing the same thing and having their engineers trained indian engineers how to do their jobs. then they go back to india with a job in the american worker is laid off. the h-1b visa which is for bringing people here because you cannot find a qualified american worker to do the job, and they are skirting this whole thing. idea of thewhole h-1b visa to outsource the job. host: thanks for that call. brendan duke? guest: i don't know much about the h-1b visas. the pieces he pointed out are really disturbing. -- abuses he pointed out are really disturbing. i think that's why we need government to take the enforcement and regulatory actions to prevent abuse by companies. that when companies have an incentive to make a race to the bottom, they will do it. we need to think about the rules that are laid out and make sure themcompanies comply with and that the incentives are one that work for america. host: a response? visa user. in h-1b i'm from the netherlands. i know more about the program brendan probably. this is certainly not my personal complaint but i don't tied these pieces -- visas to specific employees are a good practice. he should just give people the right to work here and choose their employer and making easy to switch jobs. the current program is something that could be performed. as a race to the bottom, i find it confusing to hear this ctory story when paying higher ridges is good for firms and on the other hand we have to force them to do so and we have to make sure we do so and the entire country would otherwise lose jobs. people will escape these new rules that supposedly make them better off. iat inherent contradiction, think people on the left to try to figure it out a little bit better. host: andy has the last word from maryland. democrats line. keep it brief. caller: good morning. i will make this race is synced. unfortunately your to guess of not even bridged on this topic. i'm a phd scientists, and african-american scientists. -- i amingual. multilingual. in our country we are not investing in this nation. there are people walking around with phd's, newly craft students coming out of the universities with no hope of getting a job. ieshave about the industr and manufacturing facilities out of this country. united states is no ability to make -- all the things are gone right now. tience whenntry's pa you have capabilities is now closed. this is a letter happened because of talking heads. you are talking talking points. these are political talking points. you have got to get a the politics and get back into the science and commerce sectors of this nation and put this country back to work. bring the industry back. punish those that take it away from the station. you are killing the united states of america when you do this. requirements when they go on vacation in germany by law, they have to pay the same salaries to the students of the summertime. host: we really are short on time. thank you for making your call. we will give each of our guests a chance to respond. guest: again, i don't understand this obsession with the koch brothers. i think they themselves run manufacturing plants in the u.s.. precisely what you're asking for. they are try to re-create or maintain the kind of business climate in which this kind of industries canton -- can't continue to exist in the united states. i think you are blaming the wrong party there. guest: i think the thing people object to is the idea that a couple of people who happen to inherit a great fortune get to set the tenor of the debate in economic policy. with secondans wages that really want washington and their state capitals to attack those problems head on. instead we have millions of dollars in shadowy -- i think it's kind of this directing policy makers and the real problems confronting this country by putting the tea party at the center of the debate when the tea party does not really offer any solutions to make america great again. host: we would love to have both of you back again. brandon duke at the center for american progress. appreciate you being with us on the sites giving morning. enjoy your holiday. when we come back we will take a closer look at the no child left behind as congress is ahead on some significant changes to that legislation. first, the president in his weekly address sharing the thanks giving holiday and thoughts of the american people. here is part of what he had to say. president obama: thanks giving is a day for food in football and hoping to turkey did not turn out to dry. visited a count our blessings and get back to others. a reminder that no matter our circumstances, all of us have something to be grateful for. lth.e it's good hea a new addition to the family or a child taking a step towards college or a career. maybe it's a new job or long overdue raise. maybe it's something as simple an important as the chance to spend time with the people who matter most. every american can be fatal for the chance to live in a country founded on the belief that all of us are created equal. i get to seeent the best of america every day. the courage of our troops and veterans, the resilience of our families, and the basic goodness of the ordinary people who call this country home. on this uniquely american that sowe also remember much of our greatness comes of our generosity. there is the generosity of america's a volunteer at food banks and shelters, making sure no one goes hungry on a day with only later full. plates areo many full. there is black friday and cyber monday and getting tuesday. what you get is as important as what you get. and i've been touched by the generosity of the american to have written me letters and e-mails. they offer to open their homes to refugees fleeing the brutality of isil. that nohould remember refugee can enter our borders until the undergo the highest security checks if anyone traveling to the united states. that was the case before paris and is the case now. what happened in paris has not stopped americans are opening their arms anyway. one woman from pennsylvania wrote to me to say money is tight for us in my household, but i have a guest room. iva pantry full of food. we can do this. another woman from florida told me her family's history dates back to the mayflower and she says welcoming others is part of what it means to be an american. nearly four centuries after the mayflower set sail the world is still full of pilgrims. men and women that want nothing more than the chance for a safer, better future for them and their families. what makes america america is that we author that chance -- offer that chance. we widen our circle of concern to say that all god's children are worthy of our compassion and care. that is part of what makes us the greatest country on earth. i hope you and your family have a wonderful thanks giving, surrounded by loved ones and full of joy and gratitude. in together may we all play our own small part in the american story and write the next chapter that future generations can be thankful for. from the obama family to yours, have a great thanksgiving. journal"ngton continues. host: some changes are in the works with no child left behind cited work -- signed it a lot but george w. bush. joining us is alyson klein, happy thanksgiving. guest: happy thanksgiving to you. host: let's talk with the legislation signed by president george w. bush. what was its initial premise? guest: no child behind was the 2002 reauthorization or update of a very old law. elementary and secondary education act. basically the twist on that older law is that it required annual testing or students in grades-eight and one in high school in reading and math. and state and district were supposed to write each school and get a sense of how we are doing when it came to the performance of poor and minority students, students in special education, those discerning he was -- just learning english. later12 or 13 years school district's have been in your words "pleading with congress" to make changes. what are the problems? host: even though -- guest: even though it had a laudatory goal, it was seen as an uncivil. unflexible.ble -- act -- a new students 60 succeed act. what factors they look at beyond just test scores. it still requires them to intervene in their lowest performing schools and schools was really high dropout rates. host: congress in recess for the holiday and is back next week. this is one of the agenda items before the christmas holiday. let me go through some of the bullet points of water in these proposed changes. schools must continue to conduct the annual test. here is one of the key things. states have the discretion in determining how to hold schools accountable for student performance. also, states was it plans to improve those poor performing schools as well as teachers who are not performing up to standards. also block grants would be created for these programs. changing and revising the pre-k program. they would be no teacher evaluations through test scores. another key point. and limits of the education secretary's -- limits to the secretary -- education secretary's authority. guest: this would get a lot of power back to the states when it comes to performance and figuring it -- out how to fix lowest performing schools. the point about teacher evaluation is an important one. that was not in the original no child left behind law. u.s. secretary of education arne duncan issued waivers from some of the laws mandates back in 2011. they are in place in 42 states and the district of columbia. and the centerpiece is that states were able to get these flexibilities already from no child left behind as long as they promised to evaluate teachers based on test scores. that had to be one of the factors. there's been a lot of pushback to that. some very difficult -- it's been very difficult for states implement and the law makes it clear that states don't have to do that anymore they don't want to. guest: the phone lines undivided little differently. parents,o hear from (202) 748-8000. a teacher or educator, (202) 748-8001. and for all others, (202) 748-8002. at c-spanwj.et we can get into a discussion about what kind of testing is required, but have a -- how else can you set that bar? states will have a lot more discretion over how they count relative to other measures. states will look at graduation rates. they will be required to look at english claims proficiency. basically whether or not students who are learning english are making progress. they will also be required to pick at least one other measure. school quality or secondary readiness. state can choose to incorporate teacher engagement, student engagement, school climate, access to advanced coursework. they will be holding schools accountable for those factors alongside test scores and some of the other things i just mentioned. guest: host: patty murray of washington state, lamar alexander of tennessee, the chair of the health committee. the senate overwhelmingly voting on this, 39-1. the house in the senate coming together on this. walk this through what we can expect in the next few weeks. guest: the house will likely take up this bill next week. the day that use floating around is december 2. there could be some issues with house conservatives who defeated a similar bill earlier this year in march before they brought it back up again in july. we will need to watch out house conservatives react. in general is expected to pass both houses. it does have bipartisan support. from senator patty murray and lamar alexander. also the representative john kline, chairman of the house education committee and representative bobby scott it was the ranking democrat on the committee. all for work in this agreement together -- four worked on this agreement together. host: how does this affect federal it education funding? guest: the main vehicle for funding education is the title i program which started back in that older law i talked about, the elementary and secondary education act. this bill keeps it in place. it also keeps in place a mother key programs -- some other key programs. programs haveer been rolled into a big, flexible block grant the districts can use for certain purposes. they are supposed to use it for -- the help figure out programs to keep students state -- safe and healthy. a small portion can be used for technology. thank you user for well-rounded activities like arts education but they would have a lot more discretion over those funds. host: let's go to james in idaho. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you' -- you? i have a comment about no child that behind. i think it is a tragedy. growing up in north idaho i had at least a dozen friends that -- their lives are destroyed in ruined by no child left behind act. they were low testers, live performers. -- low performance. they did fine on projects and homework, but it testing them have a difficult time. startedly the school catching on to the fact that obviously funding would be decreased based on score ratios. a lot of my friends and myself were forced into a situation where we had to sign a contract. we were withdrawn from the public school system and transferred to an alternative that did not have as big a population. they did not have -- the --rastructure was pretty virtually no college i try to get into what except me. the tragedy is i am extremely intelligent but the whole and that pressure in the academic environment resulted in this terrible situation for myself and many others where our lives are virtually -- hey, you're having a hard time. they block kids in there. there would be the principal, academic advisors, and this little mafia room where they sign paper inside paper. -- and signed papers. guest: there has definitely been a lot of frustration with no child left behind. and its emphasis on standardized test thing. i think that is why this fail -- -- seeks toto broaden accountability to include the other factor i mentioned. something like access to advanced coursework. even though testing will be part of the picture for sure, kids will have it -- schools in look at some of the other factors. host: let's go to keisha from maryland. how old are your kids? caller: my son is 17 and he goes to high school. he's about to graduate. that all the kids receive the same equal education regardless if you're poor or rich. basically they did something for post-graduation they can use. i understand the young lady talks about testing, but we should not be so concerned about the test scores. we should be concerned about the substance with the education they are receiving and should be equal. that is my concern. host: thank you for that call. guest: yes, ensuring all students no matter where they a goodm had access to education was a key goal of no child behind. senator patty murray who helped write the bill believes there are what she calls "guardrails" in place to make sure that ,chools are doing very poorly that have low performing scores, turn those schools around and that there is some action taken in schools where students in special education, english language learners, minorities, and poor kids are underperforming. we will have to see if -- a lot of folks who left -- wrote no child left behind may -- it's something we will have to see how it plays out. i know it is not the intention of the sponsors but we will see how it plays out in implementation. finalized education would send control of schools back to states, replacing no child left behind." does it totally replace ncob? does not replace or chasing underlying elementary and secondary education act, but it's a new update of the law. it is a brand-new name. definitely replaces no child behind. host: greg with allison klein. good morning. caller: i wanted to get the host's opinion with leadership. i believe the secretary will be stepping down in december and we will have a new secretary. host: also, congressman klein is stepping down. it's true that arne duncan will be leaving his post in december. the person taking his place is a man named john king he read the minority -- who ran the new york state school system. he will basically be the acting education secretary. it will be his job to implement and regulate on this law. changes will this make two common core we hear so much about? caller: guest: guest: that is a great question. there has been a lot of frustration with the u.s. secretary of education, his team for encouraging the adoption of common core for the top program which doles out grants to states to improve the education systems. and through no child left behind wavers i mentioned. states had to adopt some sort of college and career ready standards to get a waiver in common core counted. this does not get rid of common core or tell stacy can't use common core, but it does restrict the secretary's power to tell stacy use any particular set of standards. host: let's go to james in rochester, michigan. what great levels you teach? caller: ninth-grade. quick question for the guests. i with a -- i with a to get -- i would like to get her opinion as to why some of the other countries like finland and sweden, singapore, south korea, japan etc., don't have the same level of requirements or even the same kind of requirements. the big example would be standardized testing that the united states has. if the wheel has been invented where we continuing to go back and look at things that are really retreads> -- retreads? guest: a lot of people point to finland which does really well on international comparisons and has a lot less reliance on standardized testing. the argument that people who are in favor of these tests make is that the u.s. has a much more diverse population than finland. we have a higher degree of poverty than some of his other countries. the standardized test measure whether were educating all kids. that would be the response but there certainly is a lot of frustration about standardized testing. part of this bill would give states and districts the tools to improve upon their tests. there is a provision that would allow some states to pilot what is called innovative assessments and bring them statewide. that would be things like performance-based assessments as opposed to the fill in the bubble tests we are hearing about. to an half of a different way of looking at testing. we will have to see how it plays out. host: you mentioned congressman bobby scott kicking off the committee on esa. we have a workable framework for the no child behind. greg from sioux falls, south dakota. good morning with alyson klein. caller: good morning. i'm curious. since no child left behind came out it seems like there was a lot of other little programs that got started. the one specifically mentioned in south dakota it is called it is called gear up. the guy running it murdered his own whole family, set his house on fire and committed suicide. there are $20 million to help 40 native american get to go to college. how much waste is in the department of education? i don't know if i will be a friend or an enemy but i think the federal government should get out of education completely and leave it to the states. the state and universities know what is going on and what needs to be done. guest: gear up as part of the higher education act. it's not authorized under this bill. to roll backs seek the federal footprint in education. people combine about 50 smaller education grant programs into a more flexible block grant. host: john from franklin, tennessee. caller: hi. is senator lamarr from tennessee, i think he was a senator when no child left behind was passed. host: he also served as education secretary under the first george bush of ministries. guest: he was actually in the senate when no child behind passed. caller: he wasn't? guest: no. caller: he said he wanted with the local school districts take the decision because they knew more about what the problems were. but as the previous caller -- the federal government does not get involved until there is a problem, right? -- the federal government did not get involved until he saw the kids are getting nutrition. we are able to measure how the schools are doing, then we are in good shape. but we can't measure it and we don't of what is happening. guest: i think that is an excellent point. there are definitely some folks who helped write no child of behind that are really worried this scales back accountability requirements and will be harder to compare school performance. that is something -- i don't think is the intention of the sponsors. clearys she sees guardrails. representative scott has said the same thing. we will have to see how that plays out in implementation. host: what you mean by guardrails? guest: some of the accountability provisions. the fact that states would be required to turn around their lowest performing schools, schools with high dropout rates. basically schools were only about two thirds of kids graduate. andschools where students special education, minorities, they are not doing well. host: this is carried live on c-span radio and we welcome our listeners who are tuning in. we are focused on no child left behind in the reauthorization changes in the works as lawmakers return next week. andguest is alyson klein, she writes for "education week." some of the highlights of some of the changes as was into jerome from california. caller: good morning. let me do this. ok, new technology. my question is -- i was a mental health therapist. i had many clients that were adolescence and younger who were troubled teens. when i asked them the question of what happens in you challenge your teacher, well, we get sent to the principal. new wondering how is this legislation or bill going to help the child that has a question because the region of the book and he has to get sent to the principal because challenging somebody? he's riding the teachers accreditation? or how about the child like myself? i was a nutcase in school. but the teachers have the patience to sit me down. they did not labeled meet with add or adhd as many of my clients are mislabeled or misdiagnosed. these are the concerns i have. how will you help the students? when i first got back to the school in my 30's, i was sitting next to high school students who just graduated any remedial english class. how sad is that? host: thank you for your call. guest: i think that is a great point the bill does create more flexible block grant funds. i think school district could certainly use that money to help mental health.ts' without federal oversight will some states discriminate against minorities? guest: i think that is a concern i definitely heard expressed by the people who wrote no child left behind. we are still waiting for a very important voice, the civil rights community to weigh in on the deal. i should point out this is just a deal. we've not seen full legislative language. they are waiting on that for they weigh in. we are waiting to see if they see this will give states too much power and that they could end up hurting some of those groups you mentioned. as i said before, representative bobby scott and senator patty murray feel like there are enough protections in place for those students. host: the elementary and secondary education act. you can watch the debate in the house on c-span, the senate on c-span2. marie from the bronx. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm very -- yes, i can hear you. host: we can hear you. caller: i'm concerned about the children who grew up in america that only have english as their only language. from kindergarten on. they are not getting a second liquids classroom kindergarten on. they are getting left behind because when they get a second language starting in eighth-grade, the brain is already inflexible to learn a second language. these kids are getting left behind. they have work application contracts that says spanish-preferred. they want spanish-language. half of these kids are graduating without the second language or without spanish are not getting hired even though they educationally are qualified for the job. they are leaving those kids behind. kids that are born here, group and only no english. -- know english. guest: i would say a lot of the slimming down before language education, that tends to be a state and local decision. that is something that should be talking to your local school board and state legislature about for sure. host: thomas from spring, texas. how old are your kids? caller: i have four. 60, -- 16, 7 and 3. host: congratulations. caller: and i have a sore voice. happy thanksgiving to you. i have three points. one of which is a question. two are just point i'm trying to make. host: put your question on the table. teachers, andg of i think accountability is important. something should be done or in schoolo give -- get officials and teachers accountable for the results of the kids so they have a stake in the welfare and education of the kids. obviously you can't control as a teacher a child's willingness to learn. will there be a need of having accountability, but you can't obviously control. why is it that we are interested in pulling the way that accountability? of pulling back , the idea wasle that no child left behind was howheavy-handed in terms of states and districts had to identify schools and what they had a hold them accountable for. there were a lot of folks that felt like testing was too big a part of the picture. states and more discretion now testsow the taste -- will be used. host: tom, you had another point? caller: i was watching c-span earlier. there was a discussion about the economy and i think this is important in something i have talked with principles about. it seems to me that parents are under more pressure. you have two parents working. i think the broader economy has a greater effect on parents' ablility to help with their children. i hear parents say there's too much homework. two parents are out of the home working. more it seems to me are being asked of parents and it seems to me that kids have suffered. guest: yeah, i think that is something we certainly hear a lot about. a flexible block grant is in this bill. parent engagement that could be --d for things -- there are is a provision that holds schools accountable for parent engagement. host: jane from studio city, california? -- maybe have baby two two comments to make. no child left behind is an abysmal failure. in my next point is why not access teachers at an extremely successful? marva collins had to go outside the school system to teach her children. they were all successful. is something school districts have been trying to use as a school improvement strategy, bringing in teacher coaches and teacher leaders. accessing the teachers that are most successful. nothing in this bill would change that. host: letting back to something written throughout this bill. accountability. how do you measure that? the deal i mentioned, on the table would allow states and districts to look at kind of a broader picture of school performance. they would have to look at test scores to some extent. they would look at whether students are graduating. whether they are learning english. they would look at at least one other factor of school quality and performance. something along the lines of things like school climate, school safety. whether parents are engaged, whether students are engaged. the idea is that district would be of the get a broader idea of her school performance under the deal. host: brian, good morning. you're a teacher? caller: i teach physical education at the middle school level. why is it so standardized on how we teach our kids? were basically teaching them the exact same thing with very for the teacher to sell -- teach something that's not complete the by the books. i feel like it's just standardized and controlling. there is no freethinking anymore. host: is that the sentiment of many of your colleagues in the school district you work in? caller: coming in? host: is that the sentiment of teachers you work with? host: caller: yes. guest: that is something we hear from teachers a lot. decisions about the curriculum are left up to the states and local still districts -- school district. i've heard that frustration many times. it seems like it is something lot this deal would have a of control over. something you would really want to bring about your local school board. host: another call from bakersfield, california. jijm, welcome to the program. caller: i never got married or had children. when i watch all of this i would not consider at this time raising a family unless i could find a wife who was totally capable and fully on board with staying at home and raising the kids and homeschooling them. given what i see in the state of k-12 education. would your guests agree that that is generally the state of k-12 education in this country is very poor? guest: that's an interesting question. as a reporter i can expect opinions. i can't say that scores on the national assessment of educational progress, the nation's report card were a bit down this year for the first in a long time. folks are concerned about that. on the other end of the spectrum, graduation rates have never been higher. it's tough to tell from the national picture whether or not all of our schools are not succeeding. there are pockets of extreme poverty and schools that are not doing as well. host: the changes are still being debated the two key players. the new speaker of the house, paul ryan. where does he come down on this and what about the president? guest: speaker ryan has been supportive of the process. he is said to have pretty close friendship with representative john kline who is retiring. a good way for him to go out repealing no child up behind. the sentiment is that speaker ryan will try to help mr. klein get his bill through. the white house is not released a general statement. they have not put out a statement of administration policy on this bill. and a number of new stories white house aids and then quoted as being fairly supportive -- aides are being quoted as being fairly supportive. host: one of the number of editorials. this is from mississippi. it says the reform of no child left behind must be equitable for all students. is it? guest: it depends on who you talk to. the framers of the bill feel it is. they feel like there are protections in place for students in struggling schools, schools with high dropout rates, and for students in the groups i keep mentioning. poor and minority students and special at -- education. there are concerns that leaving accountability decisions of the states could end up leading them to water down accountability, water down student performance. i should point out i spoke with the mississippi state superintendent last week. she made it really clear that they have no intentions of backing away when it comes to educating those populations. let's go to bob in missouri. good morning. caller: good morning. in my over 70 years of observation, when things get worse it's usually because washington, d.c. gets stronger. in changing, governments and other countries, and everything. guest: if you feel that way, this bill has a lot for you to like. it rolls back the federal footprint when it comes to k-12 education. it puts a bunch of restriction of the u.s. secretary of education. mentioned, slim down the size of the department. this is definitely a rollback of the federal role. host: judith from alaska. good morning. caller: good morning. i appreciate you taking my call. i livelling primarily -- in a rural community. on kodiak island. there were several groups i belong to, one of them being the kodiak pta. to make a long story short several years ago with my involvement in education, i'm a former educator, and i have remained very involved at various levels. , we have together on the island. it started last year and started looking at a plan to improve education for our kids. how the assessment has become -- becausee have the of the money and the titlecturing and how that i is involved, do you have any ideas or suggestions on what i can do to follow and monitor this at the state and federal level? especially looking at the money into alaska and were looking at bettering our education and role communities. host: a good way to conclude our conversation. up early in alaska. alyson klein? guest: we've been tracking these trends as best we can. and also check at your local branch of the school superintendents association. they really do a lot with rural schools and they maybe it a will to help you track some of these changes and figure out what they will mean to you. host: kind of walk us through what can expect next week. guest: what is generally expected is that the house will consider the bill, likely on december 2. it will proceed to the floor of the senate the following week. and then it will obviously go to the white house where president obama is expected to sign it, although he is not a global statement on the deal yet. i should point out that even though a couple of times during this presentation i have said the word bill. there has been no legislation formally introduced. they are writing the final legislation now and we will see that next week. host: alyson klein, thank you for spending part of your thanks giving morning with us. guest: happy thanksgiving . host: a full schedule here on c-span coming up. a series of profile interviews with freshman members of congress. c-span2 on book tv -- book tv on c-span2 and then today, tomorrow and through the and "american history tv" on c-span3. from all of us here, we hope you have a wonderful, terrific thanksgiving holiday. enjoy the rest of your day. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2015] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] announcer:

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