>> as i said, if properly regulated in terms of quantity of nicotine, how it's delivered, the manner it's delivered and targeted to a current smoker who couldn't otherwise quit with levels of nicotine so they switched to e-cigarettes, i don't think there's a dugout of reduction -- doubt of reduction. >> what is your general view to the science of e-cigarettes, do you view it as settled? >> the science is not settled and couldn't be settled because the product itself is changing. we have not had the kind of rigorous science through this that we require for any other product under regulation of the f.d.a. our organization and the other public health groups would welcome rigorous science. if e-cigarettes have the potential to help millions of smokers quit, we do the science to make sure that the product we are selling to them will accomplish that goal. in the absence of regulation, we see product of nicotine in enormous levels. high enough. and some cases too low that it makes so easy for kids to start. the last thing they want to do is have a perfect product for a kid to start as well as advertising. precautionary principle of protecting our kids and how we go developing that science. >> thank you, mr. ballin. there's a lot of discussion of harm to e-cigarettes. you degree with the center of tobacco products who has said there is a continuing risk. you said that those are on the uses. can you elaborate on how we can find the appropriate balance or e-cigarettes and what the key players can do to further that dialogue and scientific research? >> i think that what i'm hearing around this table is actually a common direction of what needs to be done. needs to be more research. no question about it. kneads to be -- needs to be done by f.d.a. and universities and academics. industry has a responsibility also. there was a statement made by someone earlier that there has to be accountability of this industry. as the agency continues to regulate the products and anyone wants to file anything, they are going to have to have the proof to back up. the agency to prove the product or allow a claim or anything else. we need to head that in that direction quickly. i think we need a aggressive monitoring surveillance system. we talked about that many, many years in the public health community and f.d.a. and i think that in order to find out what's going on in the marketplace, we need to be able to tap into the industry documents if it's not proprietary information. f.d.a. needs to do a better job of coordinating efforts of seeing what's happening out there so we can take the necessary steps to take action. there's a lot of things that need to be done. collectively and responsibly, we will be able to deal with the issues we talked about today. throwing grenades at each other i don't think is going to be productive. when people actually can sit down in a room without negotiating anything and have a civil conversation off the wall -- you know, off the record conversation, progress can be made. may not be. until you stop talking, you are not going to find out. this hearing is beginning this process up here. i appreciate it. >> what concerns do you have about advertising to children and how has the emergence of the tobacco companies and the e-cigarette field change the market or the perceptions of the advertising? >> for me, being from the public health unit, i have the same concerns about advertising acrossing the -- crossing the line. some of the things i have seen bother me. i don't think banning advertising per se is the route to go. at the same time, we need to be providing truthful information to the 40 million smokers out there what the products are and how to be used. i agree we need to monitor this stuff which is what i said earlier. there are things that gives me heartburn what i see in the marketplace. we need to deal with them up-front and honest manner. >> mr. haley -- healey and weiss, what are your companies doing to restrict advertisement to children. >> we adopted a policy that we got from the tobacco control act. that was that print and television and marketing efforts that the audience be at least 85% adult. as i said, which is what we decided to impose and got that from the tobacco control act. we also self-regulate. in the years that's lead up to this regulation we only advertise in programming that we have a predominant adult audience. whether on television or in print. >> senator healey, you are going to be a very good person as you are anyway and yield to senator boxer. she's a committee chair and she's here. oh, senator heller is not. >> you are an optimistic man. you are talking about sitting around a table and doing these things. they sat across there at a different venue raising their hands to tell the truth and lied. everyone turned and things began to happen and we gan -- began to make progress at that point. you need to know and we all know that you have to tell the truth because of 18 usc 1001. i heard a couple of things here that are not true. i want to talk about those things. for example, i think mr. healey you said, this is a great invention ever to get people off of cigarettes. >> yes. >> american heart association peer review scientific journal. have you seen this? >> i don't believe i have. >> we will put it in the record unless there's objections. it's peer reviewed. health claims and claims of efficacy for quitting smoking are unsupported by the evidence to date. these are leading scientists. mr. myers, you ought to get a look at this too. i need to go on. i don't have time. i have to make some points here. my two friends from the e-cigarette companies, you believe, i'm sure, that nicotine is dangerous to adolescence. do you agree? >> yes, i do. >> correct. >> you are aware that the u.s. surgeon general that it will have lasting consequences for brain development andeded a do less sense are vulnerable to this highly addictive drug. i'm asking you because you said that you are working to get adults off cigarettes. that's your goal and that's your mission in your companies. have you ever had a conversation in your company informally, formally, with another executive about how this product could be marketed to nonsmokers? >> i can say i haven't had that conversation. >> did anyone in your company ever have that conversation? >> not that i'm aware of. >> not that you are aware of. what about you, mr. weiss? >> absolutely not. >> what's in your cigarettes? >> nicotine, and flavors. >> how about yours? >> nicotine and distilled water i would add to that. >> are you aware that there was fer -- formaldehyde in the products? >> yes. >> how often do you test your products? >> pretty frequently. >> this story that found formaldehyde had nothing to do with your companies. >> not for mine. >> they didn't find any, "the new york times" story? >> they were not testing our products, no. >> it's unequivalent -- unequivalent col that you don't advertise to kids. you sell your products in cherry crush and vanilla flavors. cherry crush. yet your parent company says that kids may be vulnerable to try them due to fun flavors. you sell cigarettes in three flavors. how can you say you are not marketing to children? >> senator, good question -- >> what's the answer? >> the answer is the average age of the cherry smoker is in the high 40s. flavors decrease the ability or possibility of adult smokers to use e-cigs switching back. >> why did your parent company in the website say that kids may be vulnerable to trying the significant rit es due to -- cigarettes due to the flavors. are you marketing to children? >> no, i am not. >> who is attracted to cherry, berry, vanilla? who is attracted to that? >> adult spoke thissers -- smokers. >> they are? that's interesting. i would like to say -- even though your parent company called you out on it, your company previously committed to not sell e-cigarettes and flavors. investors report that you are offering ten new flavors and more to come. what are these flavors. can you mention them? >> there's a variety of flavors about pomegranate. we have scotch, for example. >> you have adult flavors as opposed to your kid's flavors? >> we are not offering cotton candy and bubble gum. >> wonderful. what is the list? >> i can list them off the top of my head. >> go ahead. there's vanilla bean. there's also peach tea. there's also -- >> sir, i don't have time. my time is very limited. would you make that available before the end of the day? >> of course. >> i want to show the flavors that we see in e-cigarettes. i don't know the flavors mr. weiss is coming up with since he said before he wasn't going to. i'm going to ask our advocacy people here the two at the end. you think cotton candy is something that is attractive to children or adults? >> i think it's attractive to children. >> what about gummy bears? >> i would agree in the evidence shows that the case. >> and the popsicle. okay. for e-cigarettes as an industry to proclaim that they are not advertising to kids and choosing these flavors. we heard that cherry and berry, even though your parent company doesn't attract them, you're wrong. let's look at the advertisements. can somebody help me? thank you. these are cartoons. they are not by your companies. other companies. i want to say to my children advocacy people, do those look like they are aimed at children or adults? >> senator boxer, i would agree that's poppa smurf and it's appealing to children since there are movies appealing to smurfs. >> as a grandmother, the biggest movie now is frozen and the biggest song is "let it go.." and one of the cigarettes has the phrase, let it glow. i'm saying to my chairman, whom i adore, whether it's his birthday or not, on every day, i share his views on this. i'm asking mr. weiss to look into your heart. you can sit and say whatever you want. you can con yourself in thinking what you know. we don't know if this product gets people off cigarettes. don't think you are doing a great mission and don't say that you care about kids when you go against your parent company's advice and start using these flavors. i have some of these flavors here. i'm not supposed to touch them because they are like poison. seriously. pink. what is this one? pink spots. gummy bear pink spots. rocket pop. cotton candy. we have seen a repeat. and we here in this committee get it. and i'm just saying i've allowed the questions i will put forward for the record. i think all of this is very important. i know the people in the industry you can talk yourself into everything, when i was the young women, doctors said, smoke a cigarette, it will calm you down. thank god my mother said, not on your life. don't be a part of this because you will regret it. >> thank you, senator boxer. senator blummenthal. >> i'm not going to quite so far as saying i'm adoring, but we love you. and happy birthday. >> you would like my daughter too. >> your caught -- daughter is great. like all of our children, they are better generation to generation. i want to thank your staff and our staff for the excellent they have done and putting together this profoundly important hearing and it does have a very eerie and haunting feel. the only difference between your testimony today and the testimony of the tobacco executives is that you are not under oath. because i find in this testimony a sense of denial that i cannot credibly accept. and the reason is that it's defied by the numbers. the latest report by the legacy foundation shows that 18 million teens were exposed to blues, print and tv ad within a six-month period alone. n joy had reached -- njoy reached 3 million teens. people are responsible for the natural and logical effect of what they do because they know those effects. and you know that you're reaching children and teenagers. so i think we have seen this movie before. it's called big nicotine comes to children near you. and you are using the same kinds of tactics and promotions and ads that were used by them and proved so effective. i want to show you, for example, one, to begin with if we can show it, you can see our old friend. bill cannon. and our new friend who is mr. cool. anybody recognize mr. cool? >> i do, senator. >> yeah. are you here denying that mr. cool appeals to teenagers and children? >> mr. senator, that particular illustration was not a commercial. it was placed on our web site for our consumers. it was an education piece. >> it was education piece on your website. >> yes, sir. >> so it was not in any way designed to represent your company. that's your testimony? are your denying that it represents an official act of your company? >> what i'm saying is it wasn't a commercial. it had education pieces that were aimed at our consumers. we had taken it down. when i had objections and i disagree that the messaging -- >> inappropriate, but the tactics that you substituted are equally so. you are one step ahead of your critics. let's look at the next visual if we may. >> now, anybody recognize him? mr. weiss? >> yes. >> who is he? >> i believe that's robert pattenson. >> what does he have in his mouth. >> electronic cigarette. >> he looks like mr. cool. >> he's an adult smoker. >> do you deny in your testimony today that this ad that is the use of this image is designed to appeal to children and teenagers? >> i do. >> why? >> because he's a 28-year-old adult smoking. >> your testimony is that adult role models have no appeal to children or in other words, if they are older than 18, they have no impact on people under 18? is that what you are saying? >> what i'm saying is that our target is to reach adult smokers or being able for them to reach adult smokers that they admire are using appear alter in a -- an alternative to toxic cigarette. >> these ads and images are designed to appeal to children. again, they are not only reminiscent, they are really duplicative in my view of the tactics adopted by big tobacco. you have taken their playbook and modified it to a noncombustible nicotine delivery mechanism. this hearing is not so much about the contents of e-cigarettes or their potential health effects which i find somewhat difficult to accept on the evidence we have so far. it's about the advertisement. the use of robert patent. and images like mr. cool and others that i hope we can reach on a second round of questioning. but in my view, the evidence is undeniable that you are seeking not only to renormalize, but, in fact to reglamorize tobacco products. these products for many children and teenagers will be a clear path and gateway to combustible tobacco use, otherwise known as cigarettes. my time has expired. i apologize, mr. chairman. i hope that on a second round we can hear more responses. >> you have been doing this a long time, senator. >> thank you very much, chairman rockefeller. the first fact that blumenthal mentioned, two million kids have tried the e-cigarettes. can we put that picture back up there of the twilight guy. have you gone to those movies, mr. weiss? >> yes, i have. >> have you been in those theaters? i have with my daughter when she was 16. and i can tell you that those people in the sheets for the most part are kids. and the people that read those books are girls. i have seen this many times because i had to be up at 2:00 in the morning when they do the premier and all of the girls go to see the movie. this is a birthday, a happy birthday to robert patentson. you think that appeals to me or senator blumenthal to wish him happy birthday? >> he's an adult smoker. we are trying to appeal to adult smokers. >> he's an actor in kid movies. the third factor is a flavoring issue. >> i don't understand why when regular cigarettes, they can't have flavors. is that correct? i would ask you, why were they banned from having flavors? >> they were banned because congress determined after substantial evidence that they mostly appeal to young people. >> exactly. >> i don't understand why you couldn't have your product without flavors. mr. weiss? >> for us, we view, what is going to help us accomplish our mission. because we are only interested in adult users, we have not obtained cigarettes that have flavors. we conducted research to ensure that to the greatest degree possible we would not appeal to youth with the flavors we provide. we try to understand using our product to appealing to adult smokers without appealing to minors. we would be happy to submit for the record, that research. the witness is willing to answer questions to your staff. >> just because they have alcohol names on them, they think that's cool. the pina colada brand. a lot of youth thinks those are cool. not to mention the things that senator boxer mentioned. any flavor is something that kids like. the other thing, fourth factor wanted to follow up on, the mr. cool was on the website. >> correct. >> let's talk about the website. and i understand that the social media and how a lot of this is. i understand if study out this month shows that e-cigarettes are heavily marketed on twitter. there were 70,000 tweets related to e-cigarettes. 90% of the tweets were from e-cigarettes companies and all of these included a website link. when people sign up for the twitter account, they are over 18. 18 or over. >> social media have age verification processes that we install. >> but, they are public tweets. anyone can get on these twitter accounts and anyone can get on youtube. none of the videos are age restricted. is that right? >> correct. >> i got to tell you that my in-laws use -- i don't think they use twitter. they are in their 70s. all my daughter's friends use twitter and facebook and they are adept to social media. i would think this marketing would be appealing to kids. i wonder if you want to comment on that. >> i think you are correct that using social media is a way of reaching young people. and to the point of the age restrictions, the websites for electronic cigarettes, most of them are over 18 and you say yes and you are in rather than the double forms verification that you can do. it's far easier that they can say yet -- yes that you can get in. that is weak to be able to access the social marketing. it's powerful as you notice. >> mr. myers? >> i completely agree. we too looked at the age verification on the e-cigarettes sites. it's nowhere near comparable to what is the set of requirements for cigarettes. it's a dual standard, one allows young people in much, much easier. >> i want to clon collude here -- conclude here in my former argument. you have two million kids and growing. and marketing of flavors which we know from the past with regular cigarettes. that is the why we ban flavors and you have this happening again by groundhog day. the third thing we know is that we have a heavy use of social media. that's targeted toward youth. a great way to reach youth. one of the only ways to reach youth at times if you have the kids that are on the iphone constantly and texting and we have the celebrity models. i got to tell you that most people over 50 are not going to know who robert patinson is if you want to think it. just because he's 28 and has 28 candles. justin bieber is over that age too. someone put an ad on him. i don't think that that is marketed to adults, no one is going to think that. i think that to me when you look at all of these facts, there's heavy duty marketing going on to youth. the last thing we need is for them to get dependent when we see success. >> i have to sneak a question in before senator nelson. mr. healy, you said you are a smoker? >> yes, chairman. >> how many years? >> started at 23. and i'm forwarding two months. fair amount of time. >> you are using e-cigarettes to help you get rid of your cigarette. i would like to hear how it's working. how long you have been doing it. what do you notice? i don't believe -- i think what you're -- from mr. myers over, i think you are all talking into the clouds in terms of facts. you're disingenuously trying to say something you should not be saying. you are trying to get off tobacco. how is the e-cigarettes helping you do that? >> i can only speak to my personal story. i was smoking a pack and a half of cigarettes a day. now, at best, i will smoke five tobacco cigarettes a week. most, a lot of times none. it makes it difficult for me as an e-cig smoker, it wasn't my intent. being that it doesn't taste or remind you go back to tobacco, it's difficult to go back to tobacco as easily as you were. >> one other question, is there distributing of free samples to kids? >> blue distributes samples to verified 18 or above smokers. >> and how do you know that they are 18 or above? >> we have machines that they have to provide. first they provide their driver's license, state driver's license. it's swiped to be verified. are they are a smoker? if they say no, their experience with us. if they say yes, we talk to them about the product and they can acquire a sample. >> you think that's a virtuous duty that you are doing? >> i think we are responsible when we hands the product to un-- hand the product to someone. >> senator nelson. >> mr. chairman, as usual, you have picked a hearing on an important topic of the day. thank you very much. i want to ask dr. tanski, you testified that there was a recent increase of nicotine poisoning cases in young children. are these cases mainly coming from children getting into the refill vials of liquid -- viles of liquid nicotine or are you seeing the poisoning cases from the disposable e-cigarettes? >> unfortunately, senator, we don't have that level of detail. we know that the trajectory of calls has been increasing for nicotine devices. we don't have the detail that said they are coming from the resale devices or not. that's the greatest likelihood for the kids to get into them rather continue whole electronic cigarettes themselves. >> you also note that there are currently no standards for governing child proof packaging for these liquid nicotine bottles. and i would like, mr., chairman, if this is not already entered into a record, it's a photograph of a number of these liquid flavors, banana split, cotton candy, kool-aid, grape, skittles, sweet tart, gummy bear, fruity loops, hawaii hawaiian punch. would you give the f.d.a. express authority to enforce child proof packaging for to toc substances on all of those containers. >> absolutely? it's critical that we -- everything else in your home pretty much has a cap on it whether it's a bottle of bleach or medications you take home from the pharmacy. they are contained from something that's harder to get in to. to give extra time so a parent can be there so they don't have toxic exposure. we believe the f.d.a. has authority over the packaging. it's not yet commented on. i would encourage you guys to please help. safety commission should consider it's possible to include this as a toxic product. i know that at present, tobacco products are excluded from the packaging regulations. perhaps that should be revisited and this should be considered different from other tobacco products. >> may be all the more needed, the gummy bear actually has a picture of gummy bears on the label. >> mr. weiss, you said there should not be restrictions on responsible advertising of e-cigarettes or other types of these nicotine vapor products. tell us what is responsible and what is irresponsible advertising in your industry. >> responsible advertising is trying to reach more than 40 million adult smokers in this country over 500,000 of whom die every year prematurely from tobacco-related illness. trying to reach those people and get them off of the toxic products that they are using is a responsible thing to do. irresponsible is the use of cartoons or images trying to target children with advertising during television programming that appeals to children and things of that sort. >> is it responsible to show an e-cigarette that looks like a combustion cigarette in a television ad? is that responsible? >> i believe it is. for most smokers if you ask them what an electronic cigarette is, they think it's important with wires. that would make them easy to transition from one habit to a habit that's going to end their life to another habit that had reduced harm. >> for an adult who knew all of that. but what about that kid that's looking at the tv advertisement. doesn't that message send to that kid that doesn't know the sophistication of what you said that it's okay to have east -- either one? >> that's the ad campaign that the public health community should support. >> i think that's where you are going to run in to some problems. in the public sector, we've been through this with tobacco and chdr tobacco companies have tried to hook children through the seductive advertisements on nicotine because once they get them as a child, it's going to be tough all through their life as an adult to get off of it. and i think you are going to have some significant pushback on blending and blurring the two. thank you mr. chairman. >> thank you, senator nelson. senator, would you forgive me if the power structure has arrived? >> the power structure is here with coffee. black coffee, no sugar. was actually going to give a presentation before all of this started. because these are the power structure, doing something that required the use of power. so would you yield for a moment to senator? >> i think you have a right to remain silent. i spoke on the amendment on the house floor in 1987, i think it was. which was the first amendment brought out on the house law net floor to ban smoking on flights and that passed with a vote. we are here with a historic -- i'm willing to hear. i'm sure it's historic presentation. >> i want to thank the chairman for his kind remarks and also my colleagues and thank you for your patience. i'm going to submit my statement for the record and acknowledge the presence of matt myers. we have been in the struggle for a long time trying to save and spare kids from tobacco and what it does to them. we know what addictions start. they start in your adolescence. if you can sell an addictive product to an adolescence, you got them. you may have them for life. that's why a lot of marketing is done for children. back in the day, it was just bald faced marketing, joe camel and everything you can imagine. kids were wearing t-shirts and hats and sadly becoming addictive to products that would be the end of their healthy lives if they were not careful. now we have this argument by the e-cigarette industry that is an accident that all your advertising and marketing that is appealing to kids. that's hard to understand and believe. look at the numbers here. e-cigarettes use among nation kids are on the rise. showing in one year the percentage of middle and high school students who used e-cigarettes more than doubled. they have you to believe that that's an accident. we know better. the same study found that one in five middle school students that reported used e-cigarettes have never tried a regular cigarette. this is not about a way to get off of smoking. this is a gateway for nicotine addiction and smoking. middle and high school students use these cigarettes more likely to smoke traditional cigarettes, less likely to quit smoking. according to the 2014 adult, many of them go on to become daily smokers. i'm not going to give the whole statement here. there's one part i do want to refer to. it harkens me back to an era that you will remember well. it was 30 years ago if you can recall this time when those seven tobacco executives and took an oath that cigarettes were not addictive. now one of the executives. they are back arguing they don't machete to kids -- market to kids. in the general pediatrics. exposure to-e-cigarette, 24 million kids saw these ads. their advertising is 80% of the advertising targeted at 12 to 17 years old. it's the same battle, mr. myers. we have been at it before. they want to addict these kids to an e-cigarette that has a chemical that is addictive. it leads to tobacco addiction. disease and death. i don't believe there's a case to be made for e-cigarettes being sold to children. i hope this committee feels the same way. >> it does. >> thank you, senator durbin. senator markey. >> i'm going back to durbin. that was a historic debate. that was the banning of smoking on airplanes. we are in debt for that day. it changed the course of history. my father died from lung cancer. smoked two packs of camels a day. he told me at age 12, he said he knew i would be starting to smoke very soon. he said to me at age 12. that's the year he started to smoke and knew i would too. he was urging me not to as was my mother at age 12. my father knew then that when he started smoking in 1930 that the same thing was going to be true when i was a boy and the same thing is true today for boys and girls. that's when the temptation is greatest and that's when we have to be aware of it. the marketing to them is what makes it seductive. then, once you got them, you got them for life. that's really why we are having this hearing because the marketing of this, the allure of this is so attractive that we know that all of history tells us that it's targeted to young people. kids. it's always been that way. i miss my father and i wish he had never smoked two packs of camels a day. once you are on, you are on. we know the technology is a very good thing. we have transformed rotary phones into iphones and turned sunlight and wind into plants. there are certain things, however, that do not need to be reinvented. textitems that serve no purpose whatsoever. new cigarettes have exploded into the marketplace, e-cigarettes to advanced nicotine to vaporizers. these products are designed to appeal to youth. more accessible to youth and marketed to youth. and because of this, we are focused on a revisitation of the history books. we know what happened in the past. we know what's happening right now. after more than four decades of research, there are several facts. nicotine is addictive. effects brain development. and in combination with tobacco, it's responsible for claiming millions of lives. these facts are true and were true decades ago at the same time as big tobacco falsely denied them. e-cigarettes sales in the united states alone tops $1 billion. use of e-cigarettes in high school doubled in one year. 12 to 15 who use these cigarettes have never smoked a traditional cigarette. this data is not surprising when one considers the way these nicotine products market to youth and how they are available in a myriad of flavors. cigarettes claim that they were the best for you and left a clean, fresh taste in the mouth. white cloud e-cigarettes promises the gift of fresh air. in the 1940s, philip morris said it will provide freedom from throat irritations. they say it's touches of freedom that equated with women's rights. and blue cigarettes have a campaign, take back their freedom promoting where traditional smoking is not allowed. walk a fine likive -- line in packaging design to make sure that the packaging was geared to the useful eye. not the eye of the federal government. they are no better than the marlboros. they can contain just as much nicotine as sometimes more. e-cigarettes have the same addiction risk of the joe camels of the 1970s. we know that flavors attract young people. the younger the person is, the more difficult it is to stop. we know that if a kid has not started to smoke by age of 19, they are not going to start. we just know that's a rule. you got to get them before 19 because all of the social pressure is no longer effective anymore. just a rule. so you have to market younger. that's the way it works. got to find replacement customers for those who have died. doctor, if you can give me a yes or no, is the nicotine in e-cigarettes or e-liquids any less than the nicotine in any cigarettes? >> it's no less. >> do you agree with the doctor that your products are just as addictive as e-cigarettes? >> we acknowledge that that nicotine is addictive. >> so you agree? >> you agree with that, mr. healy? >> yes. >> let's go back to you, mr. myers. if that is the case, what argument can they make in order to keep these products on the market or targeted towards children? >> it's the reason we are concerned about the kind of marketing that we have seen and the use of flavors that have gone to children. >> for many, the thought of santa claus brings back cookies and big, white beard. most children would not think of santa needing e-cigarette. other examples like blues, mr. cool, bring back flashbacks of similar strategies used by traditional companies. mr. myerss, do you think these images could appeal to young consumers? >> i think there's no question about that. it's a generation of consumers who are protected from this kind of advertising. it's the first time they will see them. >> do you think it's a coincidence it's called cool in the same way that kool cigarette was the entry level for a kid to finally reach camels, but a softer entry for the kid to go kool and move on to the harder cigarette? >> it requires a level of disbelief to believe it could possibly with a coincidence. >> cool is a word then and word now. it's trying to get the young kid into the pattern of smoking cigarettes. >> do you agree with dr. myerss about that that that's the intense to entice a kid of doing something that's cool that is going to lead to health consequences for that young person? >> absolutely not. product is intended for adult smokers. i could understand the opinion if smoking wasn't and we created smoking. we didn't. we created our product for smokers to get them away from combustible cigarettes. >> mr. weiss and healy, you say your people are adults. will you agree not to use that kind of advertising that appeals to kids. used when i was a boy. you are using it again today. we know when our kids say, i think i'm going to smoke kools first. will you agree not to use that advertising? >> we removed at least a year ago. we commit to never using that again. >> will you commit to using any kind of cartoons in the future, mr. healy? >> i will agree to that. >> no cartoons in the future. >> correct. >> will you commit to going through your social media sites to erase any images such as those that appeal to those who are young kids? >> yes, absolutely. we rigorously go through and continue to do so. >> will you do that? >> i believe blue already has. >> they use advertising to create the impression that these are a way to eliminate traditional cigarette use altogether. this is by the legacy foundation. some brands post their ads better. let's briefly view a ad by fin e-cigarettes. a brand that has surged in popularity. >> to the land of the free. burst of happiness. to independence. to freedom of choice. to equality. there was a time when no one was offended by it. that time has come again. thin, electronic cigarettes. rewrite the rules. >> so to repeat the closing line. there was a time when no one was offended by it. smoking in front of others how it might impact them. that time has come again. the message seems to be promoting smoking as a favorite past time for young, attractive smokers. based on your review, do you have concerns that these products are glamourizing it? >> they are attractive. they are taking a lesson of the 1950s playbook. that is a concern as we have heard. i want to make a point that when kids -- when young kids see these ads, it's very indistinguishable for a young person to make a distinction when someone is smoking and vaping. >> what are they doing? they say, smoking a cigarette. it's difficult for kids in particular to understand that there's a difference. we are seeing -- a renormalization of that image and behavior. it's glamorous and sexy. cute models who are vaping and our kids do not recognize the difference. it's a significant cause for concern. >> do you agree that blue's tagline that no one likes a quitter encouraging nicotine and tobacco use by those who would quit altogether? >> that's a concern that we are maintaining dual use rather than getting them quit their products. >> and they collect data to better serve their products. do you collect information? >> yes, sir, we do. >> could you provide the age demographics of the current users of the committee? >> yes, i could. the average consumers is 51 years old. we can give you the total data. >> mr. weiss, would you do the same? >> yes. >> i thank you so much. i think we know what's going on here. you don't have to be dick tracy to figure this out. we understand the advertising and we understand who it is being marketed to. we understand that you got to get someone under 19 to stop smoker or you have lost them as a customer. mr. chairman, i thank you for this hearing. i never had a cigarette in my life. that was because my father knew he had made a big mistake. he made a strong admonition to me. but this was an avoidable catastrophe. we have to make sure that other young people who were not protected the way i was actually made vulnerable by the marketing of these companies because otherwise it's another gateway like kool cigarettes used to be in the worst that can happen for someone from a health perspective. >> we are going to have a second round because senator blue -- blumenthal, if he doesn't ask, i will be -- >> thank you, i want a second round. >> i think this whole thing is nothing more than it's all about the money. i think it's uncreative. i think it's nasty. it's like pornography in my mind. what's to pick between the one and the other. what you are doing is much more dangerous. so let's bed. i think in your case you don't have that leeway. simply a ma matter of the dollas in.money you rick the 256% increase in two years s in advertising and you say it is adults not for the children he everything else has saysout in the hearing otherwise. i think it is dreadful. the recent senate e-cigarettethe industry. something we tonight often get a chance to do and propss actually show you itself.ndustry the e-cigarette smokers. we have a couple here. are heavy. e-cigarette smoker myself, this probably weighs a couple of cell phones. you about the flavors. this is jameson's as in the irish whiskey. and you probably can't read that is cappuccino flavor. we will open up discussion for your thoughts and comments. we want to ask you what you industry should betr regulated. here is how to join the conversation -- an e-cigarette smoker a special line for you as well. the twitter hashtag. michael whod by covers the tobacco industry for the associated press and joins us from richmond. thanks for being with us. >> glad to be here. saw part of a hearing that dealt a lot with the targeting e-cigarettesg of towards children and teenagers in particular. there?h truth is what is moan about how the industry is -- what is known about how the indusry is terms of marketing campaigns? >> i think it is difficult to industry would be marketing directly towards children or teens. i think that what some of the things that are definitely senateaised in that hearing did raise concerns among howe at the hearing about those are being marketed. or as far as quantifiable anything of that nature, that is determined. >> it seems like the e-cigarette exploded.y has -- industry has exploded. why is it growing so fast? it started back in probably around 2006, late 2006 was a small growing user base for electronic cigarettes and has grown to million worldwide. the last estimate is that the e-cigarette industry will top $2.5 billion this we are. closed in on $2 billion last we are. for customers and juicers that reached -- users that reached out to me, they are using it as traditionalve to cigarettes. some have been smoking for 20 plus years. dollar figures, the last year the e-cigarette a $2 billionly business and projected growth looks like this. for 2014,value $2.75 billion. 2015, $3.2 billion. there are 1500 e-liquid makers brandsu.s. with 450 online and 7,700 flavors. anseems like that that is awful lot of manufacturers out there. tobacco industry involved in the different manufacturers? industrythe tobacco itself is a small fraction. companiesree tobacco now have brands that are or will be within the next month or so in in national distribution the u.s. some of them have acquired some overseas e-cigarette companies as well. majority is independent of willself.o industry i >> we ever talking about michael asking you about regulation of the e-cigarette industry. on thisht hearings somehow is because the f.d.a. is considering what sort of issue onns to e-cigarettes. what gives the f.d.a. the to regulate e-cigarettes? >> well, in 2009 president obama passed a law that gave the f.d.a. authority to tobacco products and after that they went through a process recently where they proposed in april what they call givesg regulations which them the authority or proposing to give them the authority to regulate electronic cigarette tobaccor nontraditional products as tobacco products under the f.d.a. jurisdiction. to min minors.de des claims made without hard scientific evidence. wouldn't prestrict flavors or advertise. that is something they would a leg up on the regular tobacco indusry? lots of are certainly different restrictions that the traditional cigarette and industry have when it comes to marketing and advertising and flavoring as well. in my discussions with the f.d.a. on this topic they made it clear that the deeming regulations were merely foundational. give them the ability to go further and regulate other industry if they deem it necessary. that could include flavors and marketing. areas that have raised concerns among those at the f.d.a. as well as public leaders and senators and congressmen. >> and the f.d.a. has extended that comment period on proposed regulations to august 8. and if you want to take a look comments so far. regulations.gov and viewers and listeners can take a look at the page. this wantts of folks to talk about the issue. evening.ogood how should the e-cigarette regulated? >> i wouldn't want to see children smoking the the nicotine.ith you have vape the e-cigarettes without getting nicotine. i'm 59 years old and i know a group people in my age and in that 45 and older who in tryingunsuccessful to quit cigarettes. success ratea 95% now among that age group of long-term smokers where other things did not work. advertisinggs and goes on to help you quit but not everybody can highthat or it is in too of a dose. >> is it working for you? an e-cigarette smokeer? trying to become an e-cigarette smoker right now. cartridges are more expensive than right now i make comes cigarettes and it out to $6 a carton which is not i would have had a better reason for quitting if it expensive.e more honestly i'm in the situation where there aren't any other wouldatives for me and i like to become an e-cigarette smoker and i believe that tried one of the tisdaldisposables. >> michael you are writing about that today. the associated press headline says for smokers can e-cigarettes save money. what did you find? >> in calculating the numbers the e-cigarettes industry if you are a regular e-cigarettes would save, you know, anywhere between hundreds and thousands of a year for most smokers. a primeu think that is motivation for people wanting to over? >> that is not what i hear from most of the users have that reached out to me. majority of them are looking for it as an alternative to traditional tobacco cigarettes that he have been smoking for said, 20 plus years. >> i just want to make sure that at also the number of teens using. we talked about advertising aimed at teens. the c.d.c., the centers for disease control says that the usage of e-cigarettes is 10% high school students in 2012, up from 5%. byhas been tried 1.78 million middle and high whool students and most troyed e-cigarette teenagers cigarettes.egular we will hear from mitch in citrus heights california. an e-cigarette smoker, right? >> i am. not had aars i have single regular cigarette. wasve been smoking since i 24. i'm now 43. and for two years i have been smoking e-cigarettes. desireave not had any whatsoever to return to regular cigarettes. oust displaytrage hears. it illustrated everything wrong with our political system. it gave them the opportunity to express outrage and to express they knew on which very little. and i feel ashamed as an american citizen who has benefited after so many failures smoking by e-cigarettes. >> okay, mitch. michael, what did you hear in his comments about when saw at hearing?e >> well, i mean as far as his certainly hiss opinion. that the senators were raising issues that were and that willem either be addressed through other congressional matters or they choose tot pass through congress. have to wait for the f.d.a. to look at the science and decide how best to e-cigarettes. >> one of the officials testifying was the executive witenjoi. bruno mar mars invests in the theany and started using product for his mom. this is robert in california. your television. i will put you on hold for a second. beachad with palm gardens. samuel in florida. go ahead. in palmamuel and i live beach gardens and i am partly opposed to e-cigs. honestly say one thing that just within a short drive there is ai live shopping plaza that sells e-cigs and i see a lot of children walking past that. just i'm just opposed to it. beeel that if children would tempted they sew adults -- see stores andg into the i think that it sends the wrong message. i really -- i don't see anything that would be positive be said about e-cigs. to hang up now, but i really think these regulatory agencies node to look at -- need to look at who they are marketing and how they are marketing it. thank you. felberbaummichael how have states regulated in the absence of federal regulation? >> seven val states already passed regulation that limit age of purchase to 18. them have also placed e-cigarette within the regular smoking ban. that is one of the area that a of electronic cigarette makers advertise that the products can be used in places cigarettes areal not allowed and a lot of states are interpreting or passing now to include electronic cigarette in the smoking bans to some additionally started tax them at a higher rate as they would other toe back owe products. show -- tobacco products. >> up next a couple of minutes from the senate health committee. they heard from the heads of the tobacco projects both with the c.d.c. and the f.d.a., the will betion that charged with regulating e-cigarettes. some of what they sad to hey and we will come back with more phone calls and comments on to regulate e-cigarettes. >> 50 years ago, half of the men win in the of the country smoked cigarettes. couldo companies advertise everywhere including tv and school children carried much boxes with significant coat logos. smoking was common in public places. isay the landscape different. adult cigarette smoking hags down torom 42% in 1965 18% today and tobacco prevention saved eightmeasures million lives over the last 50 years. to, half of the states prohibit smoking in work sites, bars and on tv consequencesal with hard hitting ads showing real people fighting sorous and disability from smoking. to makeled 1.6 million a quit attempt and over 100,000 to quit for good. every day, children smoke their first cigarette. deaths half ad million a we are in the united states and another 16 million from smokingfer related disease. tobacco epidemic was initiated and sustained by the aggressive strategies of the tobacco industry which deliberately misled the public of smoking. in addition to making the products powerfully addictive nearly a million dollars an hour on promotions and develop products such as the fruit and candy flavored little cigars and electronic cigarettes. cigars appeal even more to youth than adults because of prices.ors and lower responses to the survey showed nonhispanicong black students in 2012 nearly 2009. the rate in cigarette used surged in recent levelsn 12th grades to we have not seen in a decade. e-cigarettes are heavily and radio and some proves unproven health claims. as a result, nearly 1.8 million students reported trying a cigarette in two of. 2012. that look like device.es to a tank f.d.a. deeming proposal would establish important regulatory allow for mored comprehensive protections as we move forward. alone is. regulation insufficient and the process will take time. states and many cities are folding them into clean indoor air policies and enacting bans on sales to minors. existct that e-cigarette and are being market by some tobacco companies as being the as signatur cigarettes but safs shift.tic they could be beneficial if they are completely substituted for tobacco and could assist in a rapid transition to a society of burntle or no use tobacco products. products are overwhelmingly responsible for andcco related death disease. cigarettes appeal to children time userslf of long and are addictive by tee second base. continue, rates 5.6 million american children will die early pause of smoking. is we know what works and we a regulatory frame work to accelerate progress. is we aren't doing enough of what works like 100% smoke free policies, higher prices, access to cessation treatments, hard hitting media tobacco control programs. notedogress including as from companies bike c.v.s. which selling tobacco products in october. we can help americans live healthier lives and prevent one this three ander is economyave our $300 billion annually and prevent half a million premature a year. thank you for the committee attention to this important to answer i'm happy any important questions you may have. >> thank you very much. mr. zeller, please proceed. >> thank you, chairman hark win sanderking member alex and senator burr. i'm mitch zeller director of the the for tobacco products or c.t.p. i'm honored to be here to activities ind.a. implementing the family smoke act.ntion and control next month marks the five year the tobaccoof control act. allo that gave f.d.a. comprehensive tools to protect .law, inic 2009, we have made significant establishing a comprehensive effective and sustainable frame work for tobacco product regulation. our first priority was the center for the tobacco products. the first new center at f.d.a. in 21 years. c.t.p. has grown from a handful of employ wees in the fall of -- employees to nearly 500 today. during the startup phase even as was establishing itself and creating infrastructure and hiring personnel we were required by law to meet more mandatory statutory deadlines and assess user fees, the scientific sad risery committee and refer initial issues for consideration all of center met nearly deadlines.dee developing the science base for enforcing thetion law issuing regulations and industry and educating the public about the risks associated with tobacco use c.t.p. is committed carefully and reviewing all tobacco product submissions. established performance measures that include time frames for review wemany of the submissions receive. as a regulatory agency, we can only go as far as the regulatory science will take us. uses researchnd to better understand tobacco differences ine products change the behavior of users and nonusers and how to best reduce the harm from the products. partner as well with f.d.a.'s own national center for toxicological research. enforcement of the act and implementing regulations is through tobacco retail compliance check inspections, inspections of domestic manufacturers and imported tobacco products and review of promotions, advertising and labeling. c.t.p. provides compliance education and training to regulated industry. in february, we launched a national public education the real cost to prevent youth tobacco use and of teens whomber become regular smokers. facts andmpelling vivid imagery designed to change over timed behaviors and educate youth about the dangers and to encourage them to be tobacco free. some challenges in the five years since c.t.p. was including the growing pains inherent in building a body from the ground up. we worked through the qualified, hiring staff, developing the processes procedures and even the toicated i.t. resources carry out c.t.p. important functions. regulating tobacco products is otherly different from products traditionally regulated by f.d.a. our responsibility is unprecedented. has tasked atry regulatory agency to evaluate new tobacco products before base on public health criteria and we also had to retaila tobacco compliance program unique even within f.d.a. we intend to sustain the momentum needed to achieve our harms andducing the risks associated with tobacco use.ct >> calm of the key government thecials involved on research were asking you how e-cigarette should be regulated. by michaeled fauberbaum. remind us of the deadline for the f.d.a. a deadline coming up in august. what happens after ha? >> after the public comment period that ends the beginning august they can take as long as they feel necessary to review draft theents and they haven'tish somehowed a time table yet but there is a lot of pressure on from theou have seen two recent senate hearings to passing some -- swiftly on passing some sort of regulatory frame work. regulations.gov for the comments there. comments at c-span chat. jake is saying he is 61 years old. packs a day and now vapes exclusively. sara says it is great to hear the success stories i'm proud of tobacco andquitting speaking up. this one say is parents must actionsponsibility for of their own children. parent of smoking children should be jailed for abuse. allison says scientists should be scientists and activists activists. and we welcome your comments, too. go back to calls. robert, evening. doing?are you >> fine, thank you. pick up your phone instead of the speaker we would hear you better. >> okay, fine. >> that would be good. now?ay >> well, go ahead, robert with your comment. >> okay. i cant know too much how answer your question but i'm 85 years old. veteran. i wore a badge, i have been a cop for 39 years. around a lot.n now when you come to the smoking stuff i refer to something like i was in the military hospital. you go in the hospital and they will have cigarettes in there but now -- they don't have cigarettes but now the advantage cigarettes. they won't contaminate nobody else. in a bar.smoking we have to go in there and do a job we don't have time for. hey, look, these nice thing, are a people can smoke. then we go into the home. in there andildren parents in there. what i found out in the home, i notice they smoke. the mother will smoke outside so she doesn't contaminate the husband smokes outside and when they go back thede they smoke e-cigarette and i thought that was a night thing. >> let me ask michael about the the smokeresence of for those who aren't e-cigarette familiar or smokers. when you walk into a room full of people and you covered this since 2005. room alamoke-filled tobacco?like >> it is different atmosphere. i attended a convention that held here in richmond a couple of years ago and in a lot walk in and you will see some clouds of smoke because there were a lot of the room that were using e-cigarettes and obviously smoke, itnecessarily is vapor. is not the same thing for when you look at it comparatively. on as far as the science whether the vapor from e-cigarettes have any impact on users, you know, similar to traditional second hand smoke there is still a lot of work being done out there to determine that. montana.go to montana.n chateau, go ahead. >> this is barbara. thei was really shocked at senate hearing that senator rockefeller chaired that these e-cigarettes have flavors and advertisements are cartoon advertisements. flavors like bubble gum. to attractt set up adults. that is set up to attract young children. and words like cool versus the 1940's and 1950's. there should be regulations e-cigarettehe manufacturers from using flavors that are primarily attractive to people.g >> michael fauberbaum would the regulations deal with flavors in any way? >> they don't explicitly teal flavors. -- deal with flavors. the regulations themselves as they are proposed right now establish a framework in order to allow the f.d.a. to do regulations town the line if they deem it necessary. to look at science whether flavors children or are only being used to attract children or if the product is being used by adults and that will be something that they will determine down the line. is caroline in east haven, connecticut. user?e an e-cigarette >> hi, how are you? >> i'm doing fine. so you use e-cigarettes? do.es, i >> go ahead with your comments. >> my concerns are that there haven't really been any studies about the effects of other people. have a son in high school and they are smoking them in school. they -- i mean who take care of the regulations? >> the high school hasn't stopped them from smoking? >> no. and it's in a lot of different towns. >> are localities like her case of a high school not a-- allowing kids to smoke, what is the situation in localities? are they many of them encountering the same sort of thing? >> a lot of states are including these in their indoor smoking bans. localities as well have explicitly stated that these products are prohibited for use inside schools and that various from locality from locality. but there are a growing number of these areas and school districts that are placing restrictions on e-cigarettes inside their property. >> in general, most employers these days have a smoking area outside. you can't smoke inside the building. what has been your experience of what you have seen so far? >> as far as i know, i haven't heard explicitly one way or another whether companies are prohibiting e-cigarettes. seems to be a case-by-case basis from the folks i have spoken to. some are looking at those types of policies from folks that i have spoken with, but i couldn't say for sure whether there are current prohibitions or encouragements in place in different workplaces. >> chevy chase, maryland. how should the government regulate e-cigarettes? >> it is a complicated issue. but in general, we need more regulations and laws. as a young person i'm appalled at the fact that the companies are focusing on flavors. it is all about money. as a young person, i have seen on my facebook, i have seen ads, advertising these e-cigarettes and advertising the different flavors. i just can't believe it. we need more regulation. no more flavors. much more restrictive in terms of who you are marketing this to. but in general, more regulation. right now they have free rein and i agree with senator boxer, we can't go back to the old tobacco. it is happening all over again. >> ben, in chevy chase, maryland. michael is here. we recently -- you mentioned a moment ago this convention of people who like to smoke and the people who sell their wares and we got a video from one of the conventions in tampa, florida and we will give you a taste of what that convention was like. >> i'm here and totally wicked. this is brian. and brian, how long have you been doing this? >> i have been with the company for a couple of years now. originally the manager for the tampa store and now designing our new stores. we have a brand new store that opened just two days ago in st. pete beach. [laughter] >> and tons of people, awesome. >> the first e-cigarette that i er used was totally wicked blueberry. >> and that is totally wicked. >> are you a vapor yourself? >> smoked for 30 years and i actually quit in about two weeks after i started using this product and that's what turned me on to totally wicked. >> which one is your favorite? >> that's a hard wup. there are so many. we have 150 flavors to choose from. i like the tobaccos. some of the more savory flavors. i go back and forth. >> you are wavering. >> i'll pick one for you. blueberry. you eberry-blackberry, have to try that. >> this is what he was going to say. welcome to the favorite booth at the event. it's fuzzy and furry, it's pink. very feminine right up dimitri's alley. >> that's where we saw you last with lush vapor. tell us a little bit. what is up with lush vapor? >> trying to reach the east coast. and we want to gain more exposure out here. we do get a lot of following from across the nation, but we don't make appearances as much. >> pleasure to have you here and i wish more west coast companies could do that. the people on the east coast want to have the west coast stuff. any new flavors you are going to be releasing? >> belly dancer series because we are known for our belly dancers. we have great flavors. the grape flavors, the grape, apple, cherry, watermelon. >> you have done a wonderful job. >> when i asked one of the beautiful girls if they knew who she was, there she is. look at her. they definitely know who she is. lisa, thanks so much. best of luck with your company. >> i'm here with mike. and obviously, we have to say first, look at your -- >> it's been a big hit. positive feedback about our pump system. and a way to provide success tom blends in a quick manner as well for all of voring our line. >> you mean from the top, obviously. >> we can set our pumps to any content that we need. e set ours for three milly liters. make your own custom blend. >> that is really cool. what is the most popular one that you have? >> a lot of our tobaccos, banana is popular, watermelon. we uzbekistan organic ingredients and close to fruits and desserts that we represent. we wanted something consistent. >> how long have you been doing this? >> we have been in the brick and mortar industry for three, four months. and we met a lot of headway. we are the first company to sponsor. we are doing a lot of big things. i started off as a user watching you guys' show and now i'm rubbing elbows with you guys and it's a beautiful thing. take care you guys. >> that's some video from a industry. there is a whole lot going on there rather than going to the seven-11, a whole theme going on. >> there is a cult following that goes along with a lot of these products. most of the folks that attend conferences like that from the folks i have spoken with, they'll use this tank systems where they can fill custom-flavored liquid nicotine into their e-cigarettes. >> we are asking you how should e-cigarettes be regulated. oin us by phone or facebook or #cspan. this is one from ian who says let's not regulate something for once. not to politician regulate. >> i tried to quit and my doctor told me to quit. the first time i tried, i quit and never looked back. and not giving you a hard time but smart people never start smoking. glad you quit. let's go to an e-cigarette smoker in san antonio, texas, kathy. >> i would like to say something about the e-cigarettes. i have been smoking since i was 16. i'm now 56. i have been smoke-free for a year because of the e-cigarette. i have tried patches, everything. and went back. and i don't know about other stores, but here in san antonio, all the product is behind the counter. you cannot buy it if you are under 18. >> do you feel healthier, kathy? >> i walk all day. i used to not be able to walk and i would get tired within five to 10 minutes. >> michael is there any data out there on people using e-cigarettes to quit and whether it's working? >> there is certainly studies that are ongoing about who is using electronic cigarettes. like i mentioned earlier and from what we have heard during this program today, there certainly seem to be a large number of smokers who are using these products for that reason. the difficulty with f.d.a. is that these companies are not permitted to market them in that way unless they want to be marketed as a smoking cessation device similar to a nicotine patch or nicotine gum. the companies have to be very careful how they market these products. but as we have heard from plenty of people today, this is an option that they seem to be seeking out. >> why do they have to be so careful in that definition? >> the way the f.d.a. framework was set up, if they are making a therapeutic claim, you have to go through the center for drug delivery devices, which is a separate entity from the center for tobacco products. and that would take clinical trials in order to prove the effectiveness of the product, similar to, as i said, something like nicotine gum or patches. >> seems like in the senate hearing we heard earlier, that was the reason behind their company was to get people to stop smoking. did the senators seem to buy that? >> well, i can't speculate as to whether they seem to buy that or not. but as you have pointed out, you did hear from two of the companies in that senate hearing, craig being one of them and in my discussions with him has said yes, their goal is to, as he likes to call it obsolete cigarettes. but that's not necessarily a cessation claim. that's their goal and that's the way that they -- the way they frame it. >> aaron in hollywood, florida. how should the government regulate e-cigarettes? >> hi, how are you doing? one thing is, yes, the f.d.a. should regulate it, but not to the point to what they are trying to regulate as. my father-in-law is choking and he has been smoking for 60 years and has all sorts of health issues. if they put regulations that will kill the mom and pop stores that one it's going to hurt the economy and not have the outreach with people in his age. they shouldn't market this stuff to children and needs to be in some kind of ads where it is a cessation tool. i have smoked since i was 13 years old. i have parents that never taught me, parents that never told me the ins and outs of smoking and i picked them up and smoked away. i'm 35 years old now. i have quit smoking cigarettes or year and a half and saved $2,800. i feel better. my taste and sense of smell has come back. better balance and more energy than what i did when i was smoking. >> does the f.d.a. take into account these comments that we are hearing tonight and the comments that they see online? will they really drive that decision? >> well, it's certainly a public comment period where various people from within the industry and average consumers can voice their opinion. how that impacts their ultimate decision, i cannot say. but i do know from previous areas where they've had public comment periods within the tobacco realm, they do cite some of those public comments in terms of how they chose to regulate different products. >> more of your calls and comments coming up in just a bit. we wanted to show you the questioning with the f.d.a. and c.d.c. and senator alexander, republican from tennessee. >> where do you come on this difference of opinion on e-cigarettes? david adams at the legacy foundation. make the cigarette obsolete. many kids are starting out with e-cigarettes and going on to smoke conventional cigarettes. do we know enough what the impact of e significance relates is? >> i need to answer as a regulator. we have proposed to extend our jurisdiction over electronic cigarettes that meet the statutory definition of a tobacco product. we are funding literally dozens of studies to answer all of the questions we have about e cigarettes and we have far more questions about what is in the product and what's in the vapor. we have questions about who is using the products and how they are being used. >> so you don't come down on either side yet as to whether it's a tool for more important as a tool toll help those who already smoke cigarettes to stop smoking or more dangerous, as a tool to encourage kids to start smoking. >> the only appropriate position for f.d.a. is they have the potential to do good and potential to do harm and we need answers to questions. >> don't you have to have -- well, when will you have enough answers to make the kind of decisions that you are expected to make here? >> we don't need the answers to those questions to complete the deeming rule-making that we launched several weeks ago. in terms of going forward to figure out what approaches should be applied to e-cigarettes when they come within our regulatory reach, we need answers to those questions. let me give you an example. we are spending a lot of money on what is called the longitudinal study. called the population assessment of tobacco and health and following tens of thousands of adolescents and adults and over time, studies like that will begin to give us information that answers some of the behavioral questions, who is using the products, how they are being used. we need additional information on the products themselves. there are liquid nicotine products and exposure to the liquid nicotine products. when we have answers, we can use the regulatory tools to figure out a framework to regulate e-cigarettes but starts with the authority to regulate them which is the deeming proposal is all about. >> senator burr? >> thank you, mr. chairman. irector zeller, do you believe that some tobacco products present greater risk to individuals than other products? >> yes. >> ok. the -- do you believe noncombustible products are likely to reduce harm for individuals that otherwise would be using a conventional significance rett? >> it -- cigarette? >> you can take any noncombusting product, whether it's a smokeless tobacco product, e-cigarette and depends who is using them and how they are being used. if we look at a subset of smokers, they are going to continue to smoke. half of them will die prematurely later in life from that decision. if we could get all of those people to completely switch all of their cigarettes for one of these products, that would be good for public health. our job is to figure out what is going on at the population level and includes the much larger group of smockers, not like the first group i defined, a much larger group of smokers who are concerned about their health and interested in quitting and what happens instead of those people completely substituting with a noncombustible product they start using both and then we would say that might not be good for public health and our job is to figure out what the net of those possible behaviors including any nigs which would not be good for public health policy. regulatory >> so much for the adults that chose the gum five years ago and chewed the gum and had a cigarette and couldn't smoke at work and does that mean that nicorette is not a useful tool for that individual? only a useful tool if that individual uses it to quit? >> i would concede that any of these products at an individual level can do good. what is challenging for all of us giving us the law is the decisions we have to make are not going to be made about what might be good for the theoretical individual. we have to have regulatory science to support decisions that inform what is happening at a population level. we have to look at all possible behaviors. >> if your trend line is this way, then the public health effect is better. you have less people using combustible products. you have more of those individuals who need to quit or gone to a reduced-harm product. t me say for the record, c.v.s. still sells nicorette gum, probably all of the products that aid in eliminating or reducing the rate of smoking. it's not like they threw out the whole category. the retailer that reduced a large amount of sales, they still believe that risk reduction is an important thing for them to endorse, would you agree? >> i would answer it in this way, senator, the products that you are referring to have been approved by f.d.a. as safe and effective medications and have been on the market for over 30 years. there is a robust evidence base to know those products work to help smokers stop smoking. they are actually not approved for reduction. they are only approved for abrupt cessation. but there is a robust evidence base that when marketed to help smokers quit and when used properly, people can succeed. by contrast, to go to the questions from senator alexander about what you know and what you don't know when it comes to e cigarettes there is a whole lot to know. >> i agree with you totally. can you point to any new innovation where we know right at the beginning everything about it and that we could come to an assessment. i'm hopeful through your studies you find this product as safe. we don't want an unsafe product out there that contributes to a different problem. ut if you find that it's safe, are we going to say the same thing about e-cigarettes 10 years from now. gee, the body of evidence did a tremendous thing. isn't that a good thing? >> if we are going to regulate them as tobacco products, we have to find that the claims, the new products are appropriate for the protection of the public health. it's not the safety and efficacy standard. and under the standard of properties for public health, it's that mix that we were describing that we have to assess and make regulatory assessments. >> i look forward to the science that is produced on this. i just caution you and our iends at c.d.c. that if we kill technology and innovation, which is in essence what some are attempting to do with electronic cigarettes, just stop it, no more, shouldn't be sold, then innovation isn't going to play a role in reducing the amount of americans that smoke. it's just not. and i think it's safe to say when i look at diabetes and we look at other things that we would consider a public health epidemic. innovation is going to give us the ability to do it. whether they can go to mcdonald eye and buy a double cheese berger. it's going to be innovation and driving technology and coming out with products that allow us to turn around the problem they've got. i think that's what we are talking about here and i look forward to the work you're doing. >> our discussion is how should the government regulate e-cigarettes. our guess is a tobacco reporter for the associated press. is congress trying to play catch-up and likely to propose any sort of regulations ahead of the f.d.a.'s guidance? >> there are several proposed legislative remedies to address some of the concerns that have been raised in these senate hearings so far. but as zeller put it, the f.d.a. was give quen a framework to work with within in order to regulate these types of products and have to meet a certain standard in order to make a scientific-based regulatory rule. and that's what they are working with. >> few more minutes for phone calls. let's go to tennessee. patricia. >> i just have a few comments to make. number one, i'm nearly 35 years old and was a smoker for over 20 years. i tried numerous things with no avail. went to e-cigarettes and within two weeks i was able to convert completely and it was over a year. a few comments i did have. a lot of people have the perception that smoke, it's vapor, it's this and that, same stuff they used to create smoke. it looks like smoke and automatically discriminated against and until they get the facts what it does to people and i don't know why they are legislating against it. >> florida. >> what's going on? >> what's going on with you? how do you think the e-cigarette industry should be regulated? >> i think it needs to be regulated, particularly in regards to it being in possession of minors. that being said, i as a registered democrat and being young, i found it surprising about how the senators went about the discussion on -- they em to be an unawareness or sinagain youness of how they unstood media advertising and how kids had access to advertising. there aren't any safeguards in regards to younger people getting access to those forms of media. you don't have to be a teen to make a facebook profile. and unless a parent is in control, there are tv settings and you have access to all these channels which are going to show these advertisements. i found it odd when senator klobuchar made the comparison and her daughters and friends of r daughters being in their twitter. that is an indictment of young kids having access to the ads. and seems they wanted the e-cigarette companies to do know advertising so that no young people could see them or somehow manage to change advertising entirely and pinpoint adults versus young people. >> and michael, will the f.d.a. be the only government entity that deals with the issue of advertising, in terms of advertising e-cigarettes to minors or whatever? >> at this point, the f.d.a. is the regulatory agency that is taking a look at electronic cigarettes. one of the legislative efforts would give the federal trade commission some power to look at the marketing of e-cigarettes and determine whether those levers need to be pulled in one direction or another. but at this point, yes, the f.d.a. is the regulatory agency that will determine how the products would be regulated and how they would be marketed. >> one more quick call. doug, you get the last word here. >> it just seems to me that since we are trying to get teenagers out of the marketplace for this product, make it a prescription product. the person wanting to get off cigarettes would be under the care of a physician who could prescribe the delivery system. and no longer be in the advertisement arena. >> michael, i believe you covered that a bit early. one quick question. for you. c.v.s. said they will not carry tobacco products anymore. what about e-cigarettes? >> i believe and i can't say for certain but i believe in that discussion c.v.s. did say that would extend to electronic cigarettes as well. for that reason that they are not approved by f.d.a. for safety and efficacy for smoking cessation. >> joining us from richmond is michael felberbaum, who's covering the tobacco industry based in richmond since 20005. we appreciate you joi a

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